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S3 Ep14: The Art and Science of Marketing with Michelle Hanson
33 Plays2 days ago
In this episode of the Dial It In podcast, Trygve and Nicole discuss the importance of strategic marketing with their guest, Michelle Hanson, Director of Digital Marketing at BizzyWeb. With Dave unavailable due to a doctor's appointment, the conversation covers a range of topics including the significance of setting concrete company goals, the complexities of SEO, the interplay between marketing and sales, and the importance of understanding competitors and the digital landscape. Michelle shares her insights on creating effective and sustainable marketing strategies, the challenges of online bidding, and the pitfalls of focusing solely on ranking keywords. The episode also touches on amusing client anecdotes, illustrating the diverse and sometimes peculiar nature of the marketing world.
Connect with Michelle
Michelle.Hanson@bizzyweb.com
BizzyWeb.com
Our Sponsor:
FracticalTactical.com
…
Dial It In Podcast is where we gathered our favorite people together to share their advice on how to drive revenue, through storytelling and without the boring sales jargon. Our primary focus is marketing and sales for manufacturing and B2B service businesses, but we’ll cover topics across the entire spectrum of business. This isn’t a deep, naval-gazing show… we like to have lively chats that are fun, and full of useful insights. Brought to you by BizzyWeb.
Links:
Website: dialitinpodcast.com
BizzyWeb site: bizzyweb.com
Connect with Dave Meyer
Connect with Trygve Olsen
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Transcript
Introduction to Dial It In Podcast
00:00:08
Speaker
Welcome to Dial It In, a podcast where we talk with fascinating people about marketing, sales, process improvements, and tricks that they use to grow their businesses. Join me, Dave Meyer, and Trigby Olson of FizzyWeb as we bring you interviews on how the best in their fields are dialing it in for their organizations. Let's ring up another episode.
00:00:30
Speaker
Dave, I feel like the more and more older, the more and more, I appreciate a good dad joke. but Um, should we be? What? He's not here, man. are Hey, Nicole, how are you? I'm great. How are you? I'm great. So excited to be here. Dave is actually in a place where he's, he's having one of those doctor's appointments where he's, oh, I want to tell you guys what's going on. And we're like, no, you don't. Please don't. Fine. And we wish him well, but it's just us chickens. I'm super excited for our guests. It's some, it's, but before we do that, we do have
Sponsorship by FractionalTactical.com
00:01:06
Speaker
a.
00:01:06
Speaker
our sponsor of our show today. Sponsor of our show today is fractionaltactical.com. As a fractional CMO, your number one goal is to deliver success to each one of your clients. With limited time and resources, you need marketing solutions that are data proven, easy to execute, and repeatable.
00:01:23
Speaker
BusyWeb understands that the unique challenges marketing executives face. That's why we offered customized solutions for our fractional CMO partners. You tell us the results you need and and we create the strategy and MarTech stack to get there. You have a concrete plan. Your clients have measurable results and you look great. We help you get there. Everyone wins. Visit fractionaltactical.com to find your fractional tactical marketing partner today.
00:01:52
Speaker
and We're so excited because they are turning into long-term sponsors. Excellent. and we're and That's what we're going to be talking about ah today. Our guest today. Really? That's what we got for a guest? Isn't it fabulous? I'm so excited.
Michelle Hanson on Marketing Strategies
00:02:07
Speaker
Michelle Hanson is the Director of Digital Marketing at Busy Web, where she leverages her strategic experience and passion for client success to create impactful results-driven marketing strategies.
00:02:19
Speaker
With a deep understanding of trends, planning, and budgeting, Michelle equips businesses with the tools they need to thrive in an ever-changing digital landscape. Known for her insightful approach, she has guided numerous clients in aligning their marketing efforts with long-term goals, ensuring every strategy is both effective and sustainable.
00:02:39
Speaker
Michelle's dedication to empowering clients make her a vital resource for businesses looking to make the most of their digital marketing investments. Ladies and gentlemen, Jessie's girl herself,
00:02:54
Speaker
Michelle Anson. Hi, Trigby. Hi, Nicole. I'm so excited to be here. And we're excited to have you. I think this is your worst nightmare that you finally made the podcast because Yeah, pretty much. A freewheeling conversation that is a preference. Yes, and I am more of a planner and as I told Nicole before we started the episode, my preference is to be behind the camera or the microphone, not in front of
Adapting to Marketing Challenges
00:03:22
Speaker
it. I want to talk about a number of things today because I think one of the things that we we see in our day jobs at Busy Web is
00:03:31
Speaker
I don't think people have an appreciation for how how hard some of this stuff is. There's an opportunity for people to sell to the mean, which means ah there's entire businesses who do what we do who cycle people and not after six months, they sell them a bit as they do.
00:03:49
Speaker
some automation and it doesn't turn and they decline and they go and people get burned as a result like doing that we like doing it differently and you are primarily one of the architects correct i think it's important that as we're talking as we're recording this we're starting a new year and as people are thinking about how are they going to recover after the election how are we going to ah work in this new world order what do i really do so let's start there so what i have a small business what uh what do i do michelle
00:04:26
Speaker
Interesting that you mentioned the volatility that we have seen in the marketing landscape over the last six months. It happens every four years. It doesn't matter you know what the situation is, it's the unknown. That's what everyone gets nervous about because it's unknown. Once it's known, no matter which way it goes, things seem to settle back back into normal.
The Art and Science of Marketing
00:04:49
Speaker
Really, i just I encourage everyone to stick with what they're doing, weather the storm, and double down on what's working.
00:04:57
Speaker
How do I know what's working? Marketing is an interesting blend of art and science. Most people, when you think of marketing, you're thinking of the flashy graphics and the messaging and all of that, but there's a lot of technical that goes on behind the scenes that gives us data and analytics that tell us what is working.
00:05:17
Speaker
While there is no set in stone, it's not a one plus one equals two kind of thing. You can mix both the art and the science of it to make some pretty accurate predictions as to what is going to happen. One of the things that I remember from Christmas season is the line that always haunts me from A Christmas Carol is Dickens says that the word enough is the most enigmatic word in the English language because it means something different.
00:05:47
Speaker
So when you have a new client, and how do you help them define what success act actually is? We have lots of conversations upfront and a lot of it is discussing where they want to go with their business, what their overall business goals are, and then figuring out how marketing can support those business goals. But at the same time, we're not the end all and the be all, we're one wheel in the cog.
00:06:13
Speaker
that makes a giant machine run. It's really having all of that insight into your sales process, your corporate goals, and supporting that in a way that helps them them achieve it. We can also use the data and the analytics that are out there for their industry to help them develop realistic goals. If you come to me and you tell me, I do a billion dollars in business a year and I want to triple that in the next year,
00:06:44
Speaker
probably not realistic, but I can help you figure out how we can get to that end goal and and the roadmap for getting there. It may not be one year, it may be two or three years, but sustainable growth that can be repeated and built on ah year over year. It's interesting you talk about a cog in the wheel because I remember a client that you I worked with years ago,
00:07:08
Speaker
that drove you a little, I don't have to be more specific, but we got, it was a promotions company and got hired to do lead generation and we got fired six months in.
00:07:27
Speaker
Do you remember what I'm talking about? I do. How many leads were you getting for them approximately? Dozens and dozens. It was a very robust lead generation program that was way exceeding anything that they had done in the past. Why did you get fired? Because they weren't turning into sales.
00:07:52
Speaker
but yeah Bad leads? No, they were great leads. So what happened? What was the problem? The problem was the next step. Once the lead comes across the desk, how it's handled, we were generating these leads. We were sending out information on, on specific products and leads that they could be used the usual. And then.
00:08:17
Speaker
someone would fill out a form and say, yes, I'm interested in learning more about your promotional products and how they can help me generate more revenue, build brand, whatever the use case would be. What would happen with that lead once it came in the door was they would mail them a catalog. There was no other follow-up, there was no phone call, there was no more email. They just sent them a catalog and then couldn't figure out why nobody was ordering.
00:08:47
Speaker
it It still boggles the mind to this day, but but okay I think it does illustrate a really important distinction, which is why I wanted to bring it up, is marketing is not a savior of the business.
Role of Marketing vs. Sales
00:09:01
Speaker
The whole of it says surely somebody's got to sell something. Correct.
00:09:07
Speaker
And if you're pooching good leads, it doesn't mean the leads weren't good. It means just not selling. So that's not necessarily marketing's fault either. Correct. And that is a conversation that we have with our clients. Part of what we do here is education as well. We want our clients to understand how it works and what they can expect from it and what success looks like in the marketing realm. So in that case, it's.
00:09:37
Speaker
These are good leads. These are your buyers. They fit your personas. They're interested in learning more about you. I have done everything I can do to prep this prospect for you to sell to.
00:09:49
Speaker
but you need to sell to them. So I can bring you the lead, but I can't close the business. That is on on your side. And so we'll work with you to get through that sales process. We can give you advice and take a look at that, but I can't sell for you. I can market for you.
00:10:09
Speaker
And that's foundationally, I think a big change because there's always the cliche right that the sales team will never actually admit that the marketing leads are really good and the marketing lead people will always say the sales team are pooching.
00:10:24
Speaker
and what you're preaching in 2025 and beyond, right? Exactly. Yes.
Building a Marketing Strategy
00:10:30
Speaker
As we're talking about how to figure out, to get back to the original question, what do I do? Where we tend to lead that is towards, let's actually figure out the landscape, right? Yes. And what are the what are the foundational elements of a really solid marketing strategy?
00:10:47
Speaker
To start with, it's having your goals. And like I mentioned before, marketing is in support of your company goals. So let's start with what your company goals are ah for the next year, or even if we're planning further out than that, three, five years down the road in the landscape, where do you want to be? How do you think your business is going to grow and scale? And then where does marketing fit into that? How can you support that?
00:11:13
Speaker
and help you along that path. So you have to have goals for your company, whether they're revenue goals or the number of clients, or if it's stemming attrition, customer loyalty and retention kind of things, brand awareness for newer businesses, they may need to just get their name out there. So it's all about taking those company goals, figuring out how marketing can help drive success for those goals,
00:11:42
Speaker
and then working backwards from there. But it's in a part with all of the other parts of the business. So you have to start with your company goals. And they need to be smart goals. And we talk about smart goals all the time, specific, measurable, et cetera, et cetera, so that it makes sense. What we're doing makes sense with the corporate roadmap, we have these goals that we're working towards. The next step after that then would be figuring out who your buyer persona is. Who is your best customer? Who do you want to attract? What are their problems? How can we solve them? What do we offer them? What kind of value? And taking going through that, and figuring out who you're targeting to get to those goals.
00:12:26
Speaker
So it's not just about, oh, I'm going to go out and do a bunch of flashy social media, or I'm going to go out and I'm going to throw a whole bunch of money at at Google pay-per-click advertising. If you don't know what you're trying to achieve and who your target target is, you're going to flounder. That sounds exhausting. Why wouldn't I just want to get started?
00:12:50
Speaker
Um, because if you don't have those things in place, you don't have a clear roadmap of where you want to go. So you're getting hop in your car and you start driving. You usually know how to get to your destination. So if you don't have a plan and you don't have goals, you don't have a roadmap.
00:13:06
Speaker
he You're going to be taking all of these side trips that are going to, it's going to take you much longer to get to your end destination if you're getting off on every exit to see what's available there. It's interesting you use that analogy about every exit. So we're talking about what's available that kind of gets into what we call the shiny key syndrome.
00:13:29
Speaker
Hey, there's a new platform. Oh my God. Do I need to be on that? Why aren't I on that? Why isn't that delivery? Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. I want to circle back to that, but I think playing devil's advocate based on what you were sharing about the strategic thinking. A lot of times what companies will say is, I know what my customers want. Why do I have to tell you? And my response back to that is, well, how's it been working for you so far? Let us help you.
00:13:59
Speaker
Let us help you. I think fundamentally to appreciate your thoughts on this is there's often a difference between what a CEO thinks their customers want, customers. Correct. Yes. Yeah. And so actually understanding what customers really want and how much of that is overlapping with what you are wanting to deliver is where strategic thinking starts.
00:14:26
Speaker
it It's a different approach, a CEO or a C-level business owner. They're going to look at it from, I know what my customers want because they have a product or a service that they're selling. So I'm approaching it from the other end of what is the problem that the customer is having and how and how can we help them solve it.
00:14:50
Speaker
So it's more where you're looking, the business the business owner is looking at, here's what my business can do for you. The customer or the prospect is looking, they have an issue and they want help solving it. So it's bringing the two of those together. And when the business owner offers a product or a service in a way that speaks to a prospect that it's going to solve their problem, then that's when you've got your great marketing match.
00:15:17
Speaker
And oftentimes and in the evolution of a business, the CEO's usually had a hand in the 1.0, the market for a crack. And for to to need to come in, that CEO bristles because as they recognize they have a need that in in one part of the business, and you're talking about the other part of the business, they're going, Hey, my baby's not ugly. It got it to got me to this part here. Yes.
00:15:43
Speaker
but didn't get you to the next point. That's why you're- Yes, to help in the evolution of their business as they grow and scale. so When a company has decided that, okay, I yeah have to do this, what should they really prioritize first when they've decided they're going to plan?
00:16:07
Speaker
ah Especially if they have like limited resources. So where where you want to start is, again, it's with those goals. It's
Importance of Competitor Analysis
00:16:16
Speaker
being realistic about where your business is in the digital landscape, since we're focused on digital marketing, not the traditional offline methods. It's being realistic about where you're at in the market and where where your competitors are at and how you can get that attention of the prospect. Hold on, before you move off to that point, you're going to address a new element in the bullya base here. What do you mean, competitors? Why is that wrong?
00:16:43
Speaker
ah Because when you are talking specifically about digital marketing, and it yeah there's ah your platform that you're going for. So you are not the only person out there offering this service. For example, BusyWeb, we are not the only agency and in the metro area offering marketing services.
00:17:03
Speaker
So how do we stand out from our competition? You need to understand where your competition is at and what they're offering so that you can position yourself uniquely um so that you get the attention of the prospect and become the better solution. How do you do that in a landscape that's filled with such noise?
00:17:25
Speaker
of the mixing the art with the science. And some of it is taking educated gambles and risks. and You need to be realistic. We see it a lot when we have new clients coming on and we ask them, who are your three top competitors?
00:17:40
Speaker
who Who are you losing business to in the marketplace when you're out there bidding something out or trying to make that sale? What are the other businesses that you're seeing in your day-to-day? That may be vastly different than what we find online when we're doing that research. We may find a completely different array of competitors online than in the rest of the marketplace.
00:18:04
Speaker
So it but really depends on if you've got a if you've got a public retail space or a B2B service business where you have people coming into your business all the time versus something that's completely online. You're competing with two different markets there with your contractors. You produced another term you ran over it. I want to back up. What is bidding? why is What is that? What do you have to bid?
00:18:29
Speaker
Oh goodness, as we we all know, Google really dominates the online space. So in that, when we're talking about that, you may be looking at your customers and your competitors as those actual human beings or physical presences.
00:18:45
Speaker
Whereas we are also serving Google as one of your biggest customers. We need to make Google love your online offering so that they share it with other people. So we're not um we're looking at the two of them. So it all comes you know back to around to that SEO strategy. and keywords and long tail keyword phrases and how are people searching for, how are they searching their problems and how can I get myself in front of them as a solution? So we need to, we as a marketers need to be out there in that space using the science part of all of this and the different technologies and softwares that we have to monitor what's going on in the background online and where you are in relation to your competitors in Google. view so that we get you served up in search results in front of your competitors. The bidding strategy is once everyone is familiar mainly with the pay-per-click, how much is it going to cost when to get someone to click on this ad? and The more activity there is in the marketplace, the more bidding that goes on, it drives costs up.
00:20:01
Speaker
And so you need to be really smart with the budget in that way and figure out where where those deals are and their opportunities is where we look at it. and Did that answer your question?
00:20:15
Speaker
Yeah, but I got exhausted halfway through because it sounded really hard. but It is, and that's why we have that's why we exist. We're here to help people do that. The business owner or the C-level executive doesn't have time to dig in and stay current with all of the new technologies and resources that are available out there. So let us do it for you. That's what we specialize in as an example, like you're the dentist. I can go online and research and and diagnose what my dental issue is, but I can't fix it. I'm going to go to the experts to fix it and I will gladly pay you to take away my tooth pain.
00:20:57
Speaker
someone who is a business owner, do they have time to spend months and months studying up and learning all these things? No, they should be concerned about other things and running their business, not learning SEO. Let the experts come in and do it for you. I have a guy who works for me, just got a crown put in yesterday, and he was complaining to me this morning that it cost $530. I was trying to be sympathetic, I was trying to be empathetic, but in the back of my head, I was thinking,
00:21:24
Speaker
God, I pay too much for my dentistry.
00:21:29
Speaker
Okay, but back on topic, you mentioned budgets and you talk about bidding and talking about tweaking. How does one set a budget for digital marketing?
00:21:43
Speaker
Traditionally, the rule of thumb has been 10% of your annual revenues should go back to a dedicated marketing budget, and 10% is rule of thumb. For a smaller business, it it may be more in the seven to eight, but the issue is most of the time is just looked at as an expense when it's really an investment in growth.
00:22:06
Speaker
your marketing should pay for itself. It should be you should have a 5x or a 10x return on what you spend on marketing. So it's really more of a don't look at it as a cost. of That's just going all out the door every month. We're paying this money to do this. No, you're investing in. So if I have a budget in mind and you come and tell me, oh, ah you need to spend twice your chief goals. What if I just can't, what happens? Uh, then we need to be realistic about what your investment actually is and go back to your goals and adjust the goals to fit what your budget is for investment. Gotcha.
00:22:58
Speaker
Gotcha. So to say that another way, it just means that where to achieve my goals, it's going to get pushed out significantly. But potentially, I wouldn't be careful with the significantly word. It is going to get pushed out. We'll figure out a roadmap to get you there. It may take a little longer than you thought. Gotcha.
00:23:16
Speaker
I want to go rogue a little, which I know you're just super going to enjoy because you are having an interesting conversation about SEO, the how the typical cliche of SEO doesn't work with all sorts of new and interesting terms like LLMs, SERPs,
00:23:37
Speaker
all
SEO Changes with AI
00:23:38
Speaker
that kind of stuff. So can you give us just like a basic of what SEO program really look like and what all goes in? Because it's not just as simple as plugging in a form, plugging in an automatic program and then running a report.
00:23:56
Speaker
No, actually SEO is one of the biggest growth areas and with the constant changes and in how things are being done. But it's also really the ah heart of any marketing program ah because it covers so many different areas. So search engine optimization, people think of it as, oh, I want its keywords. I want to rank number one are on Google for this keyword.
00:24:24
Speaker
And that is number one, an outdated approach. And number two, touch a small portion of what SEO actually is. So with all of the advances and with AI, which probably I'm sure could be two down the road here, but the advances are, it's no longer enough to rank on first page.
00:24:45
Speaker
wasn anymore and that first just bright and and that it's it's gone and it's come back again. So Google took away initially or a while back, Google took away pages and it was just a continuous scroll. And then they brought the pages back because I think of pressure that people were like, oh, I need to be on page one and not. But the reason why that doesn't matter anymore is what you alluded to all of these other things that are taking place. So when you do a Google search and your results come back, what you now have at the top is an AI overview or used to be called an SGE, search generative excerpt, but it's now an AI overview. So that's going to come first.
00:25:27
Speaker
And then they're going to have a bunch of other AI and SERP features that show up. Like on the right-hand side, you're going to have your knowledge panel. There may be, people also ask, there may be a map. If it's for ah something that you can buy in retail, our map may show up saying, here's where you can go get this. And then underneath all of that, then you start getting your paid results.
00:25:50
Speaker
which is where the bidding comes in for the keywords and the whole strategy of doing that. and Finally, way down the page is where the organic results start popping in. and What happened was Google has put so much at the top ahead of the organic results that they had to take those pages away because there wasn't anything ranking organically on page one because it was all taken up by like u the AI stuff.
00:26:16
Speaker
okay Right. Yeah, there's just a lot of different changes. So that's that's just the stuff that you can see up front. There's also all of the technical NCO that goes on behind the scenes. That is all of the how Google reads your website, the coding and the different schemas and markups that are in there that helps Google understand the words that are on your website. And that is how they judge what the quality of your website is and how they serve up the results. So focus has really gone away from, I want to rank on the first page for these 10 keywords to, I would like to capture these serves. I would like to be on the knowledge panel. I would like to be included in the AI overview. I would like a map with directions to my business showing up. Those are all, have all risen now above the, I want to rank number one.
00:27:10
Speaker
What is the purple monkey dinosaur?
00:27:16
Speaker
Oh, the tail of the purple monkey dinosaur. So because I think it's illustrative. When we're trying to talk about Valley, we have a busy, we are, and we are professionals that in terms of getting people high search ranking. And we only have one high search purple monkey dinosaur. What is that? And what?
00:27:36
Speaker
Yes, so that was we did as an illustration and illustrative example of a response to people saying, I want to, and specifically when they came in and said, I want to rank number one or first page on Google for this keyword. And that was it. That's what they wanted. We could go back and use the different technologies that we have to figure out what the monthly search volume is for that keyword.
00:28:05
Speaker
Well, the monthly search volume for purple monkey dinosaur is zero. Nobody searches for purple monkey dinosaur. And that's just being the example that the company brought to us and said, I want to rank number one for purple monkey dinosaur. That's, I think, what people are doing.
00:28:21
Speaker
there's besides search volume, you have keyword difficulty. How many other people are trying to get found for purple monkey dinosaur? How hard is it going to be for you to rank? and Then we look at how much content do you have on your site that supports purple monkey dinosaur?
00:28:36
Speaker
In this case, there's no search for it. There's no keyword difficulty assigned to it. So the simple answer is we throw a page on the website that has the story of the purple monkey dinosaur. And guess what? We rank number one. Now, how many people actually search on that every month? Zero. What value doesn't F for your business? None.
00:28:57
Speaker
It means the marketing team won though, because you're number one for that. Yes, exactly. What's all up to that is it's it's that blend of art and science. We have all kinds of information in the background that can help us figure out where the keyword volume is, what people are searching on, how hard it's going to be to get your website to rank for that keyword, and how much effort we need to put into it. It's not going to make you any money, so it it doesn't make any difference.
00:29:26
Speaker
So just having number one rankings, now if it has to be rankings on what people are actually looking for. And there it gets back to the strategic mindset actually needing to think about what we're doing. So just being in a dark room and saying we're number one is great, but nobody else is there.
00:29:47
Speaker
Exactly. So that's where we come in at and can work with you on here are the keywords the business owner thinks that they need to rank for. We can go out find all of that information and say, yes, this is a valuable keyword for your business. We should go for it. Or no, this keyword has no value for you at all. So you shouldn't spend any time worrying about it.
00:30:11
Speaker
And then the other scenario is, yes, that keyword has great volume. The keyword difficulty is high on that. It's not going to be easy to do. Do we want to put some paid money, some money behind that to do some paid surge? But yeah what is the cost of that term to do that? And is it reasonable within your budget to spend that kind of money supporting that word?
00:30:32
Speaker
if someone came to me and they have and said, hey, I've got a great new organic tomato soup that is just delicious and to die for and I want to sell it to the world and I want everyone to buy my tomato soup. Can you get me to rank?
00:30:47
Speaker
for getting something. It was also vegan. ah yes it was Organic canny vegan. And it was delicious because I tried it. It was delicious. But I am not going to be able to compete online with Campbell's Soup for the term tomato soup. It's just not realistic. So there's always that dose of realism in there. Now,
00:31:08
Speaker
Am I you know going to be able to help you get ranking and bring people into your website for terms like vegan, organic soup, and different terms around that? Yes. So that's the art. We get all the science, we get all the numbers, and then the art of that is finding other keywords, alternatives, long-tail keywords, groupings of different things that are going to give you as much keyword search volume and as tomato soup, but at a much lower cost and a much lower difficulty level. So another way to say all this is to paraphrase Keith Richards is a lot, it sounds like a lot of what your job is, is the lead strategist is said that if it's come to you with a need, that means that they don't actually get one sometimes. Yes. Okay. Cool. So we talked a little bit about budgets. You're setting a budget. How long does it really last before you look at budgeting?
00:32:08
Speaker
i I would look at your budget on a quarterly basis. As fast-paced as everything seems to be this day these days, you still need to allow a reasonable amount of time for tactics to take seed, germinate, grow, start bringing in results. so I would be looking every 90 days at where the allocations are, what's working, what's not working, and where do we need to shift. Okay. From a toolset perspective,
00:32:39
Speaker
You know, we, we spend a little of time talking about how many different, what's your tech stack look like? How many, and you don't need to necessarily name them. How many different tools do you and your team use and strategic best case scenarios for for you?
SEO Tools and Strategy
00:32:57
Speaker
Oh my goodness. Let's make me do this in pieces. ah SEO, how many ah SEO tools do you, does your team use?
00:33:05
Speaker
On a regular weekly, if not daily basis, I would say there are probably a half dozen go-to tools for SEO. And it's a matter of getting the information out of all of those and then, ah you know, averaging whatever it is, because everyone has a different strength. So it's looking at the combined results of those tools. So that sticks. How many different tools is for doing paperwork marketing strategies?
00:33:35
Speaker
Oh my gosh, obviously at least one tool for every different platform for pay-per-click. That includes not just Google, but your Bing where your Microsoft people live. You're the only one who uses Bing. No, we actually have several clients who are Microsoft houses and we actually even have one client who provides Microsoft services. You don't advertise to those people on Google. You advertise to them on Microsoft Bing.
00:34:03
Speaker
Did they get a freeze's wound if they click on the ad? It's one one free year of our art membership. Oh, geez. All right. So for the record, cause she brought that up to make fun of me. When Michelle turned a certain age, I bought her an art membership, but I didn't in her name. So three years later, I realized my wife came to me and said, why do I have an art membership? I'm not that age yet.
00:34:28
Speaker
And it's because I had it on auto-renew and I accidentally put it on my wife's card. So I had bought her an art membership for three years. But it was a good prank. It just didn't follow through. All right. poet Poetic justice. Yeah. Yeah. I was trying to get you free coffee at McDonald's. I'm a helper. All right. So we're up to 12. How about for content and strategies and content creation?
00:34:48
Speaker
Uh, for content creation. You just use AI for that, right? You just have AI puke out a blog every five minutes. No, absolutely not. Which let's reserve the AI discussion for the AI portion of the show. Let's get through this. So for content, I am, boy, just the amount of research that goes into, into preparing to write a blog. So lots of research online in addition to.
00:35:17
Speaker
Oh boy. And then we have the images and we have this ah SEO and I would say probably easily three, four, five different softwares to do a blog in addition to online research. So I really need you if I just buy 15 software tools to all the stuff that Is that right? Do I have that total right? I've got, I've got a garage full of tools. I can't build you a house. Nah, I like that. I like that analogy. A couple of follow up questions before we go is how much time in a week
00:35:56
Speaker
Because this is your job is being on the forefront all of this stuff. And that's non-productive, non-client facing. How much time do you spend just reading and learning to stay on the forefront of all this stuff?
00:36:11
Speaker
Oh boy, in my work week, at least 10 hours a week, and that would be a busy week that I didn't have a lot of time to dedicate to it. I could spend my entire work week out there learning about client client industries, marketing trends, AI advances, new tools to explore. Yeah, I could spend an entire 40-hour work week doing that.
00:36:40
Speaker
realistically, probably 10 to 15. I think you mentioned something that we hadn't really touched on in the whole concept of strategic marketing is because we talked a lot about competition and the ideal customer profile. But you just asked answer you mentioned industries. Is all this standard vary across industries?
00:37:06
Speaker
Oh, it varies across industries. Absolutely. Can you give us an example? and Just even in the the analytics, the performance indicators that we track for our clients, we have to do that research by industry because your buyer persona in every industry is different and they have different personal habits and they find things different ways and so it really depends on the industry and so we need to stay on top of all of those changes and figure out what is appropriate in in each industry.
00:37:40
Speaker
Say with emails, you're looking at your open rates. Eh, not so much anymore with the consent, although there are the Apple privacy and everything that came through. So your open rate has turned into a vanity metric. You still want to watch it. Zero is not good, but but you want to look at your click through rates. How many people took an action off of that email? How much traffic did we drive back to the website? And that's going to be vastly different by industry.
00:38:06
Speaker
Wow. Okay. I have two questions before we finish up. One is a fun one. One is a work-related one. So the work-related one is this. I think everybody owns a business. It's an email two to three times a week saying that your SEO is horrible and the current company you're working with is completely doing bad things in the bed. What is your response to that? Is any of that true?
00:38:32
Speaker
If when people are getting those emails? No, actually that's just a, it's a sales tactic to get in the door. So whether or not they really truly have SEO issues or not is irrelevant. It's a scare tactic to get the business owner to go, oh my gosh, because it's something that most business owners don't understand at a deep level.
00:38:53
Speaker
So using the scare tactic of your SEO is broken, nobody's going to your website, all these things. There are so many different, ah like we talked about before, there are so many different aspects to SEO and so many different areas that need to pay attention to that it's not very hard for those bad actors to cherry pick a statistic.
00:39:19
Speaker
I think, Trigby, you have the best example of one of those that we've received in a long time, and it was the one that came in the email that you got that said our SEO was awful because we didn't rank for, was it private jet rental? Private airfields, yeah. So our marketing company didn't rank for private airfields. We didn't rank for private airfields and they could get us to rank number one on Google for private airfields and blah, blah, blah. It was like, that'd be great if that was part of our business, but we're a digital marketing agency. We have no, no.
00:39:55
Speaker
desire to rank number one for private airfields. What I always tell my clients when they invariably receive those emails, because they all do, is when you get those, just give me a call and we'll talk through it. And I'll explain to you what they're saying to you and what they're trying to sell you. And then you could make a decision based on that.
00:40:17
Speaker
There's two things that I want to add to that is is number one, and Michelle touched on this a little, is the ah privacy laws in Europe and the privacy laws in California have often changed basic simple metrics of something simple like what ah constitutes a depending on what tool you use, they're going to give a different answer because they're evaluating the data in adiff a different way in order to run. And so what that means is easy propensity to be lied to with statistics. It's important, you really understand what you're evaluating when you're looking at those people. The other thing I would say is if you ever get those emails, universally answer yes, like to see the report.
00:41:02
Speaker
and Always if they say they will send you a report always support and 99 times out of 100 they will not send you a follower Yeah, that's so always ask if they actually want to earn your business. They should work They say I'm gonna send you a free report. Wait, where is it? Let me see if they don't offer like private airfield guy when they when i got that email i said heck yeah i want to see what else we're not ranking for because i really need an orlando vacation and if we're not ranking i for it i'm supposed to get great dane puppies what how am i supposed to sell great dane puppies if we're not ranking i for okay cool that that that's a big thing that i think everybody universally has a problem with and i appreciate your insight on it all right last question i promise
00:41:51
Speaker
I will give you an opportunity for a manner of revenge.
Memorable Client Requests
00:41:54
Speaker
We have worked together for our going on 10 years next year. What's the weirdest thing ever brought a client to you that you had? Oh my goodness. They're stronger.
00:42:12
Speaker
ah I've got two in mind. What are your two? Oh, but if you ever talk to any of my coworkers about me, Trigby in particular, maybe on occasion, Andy or Dave, they're going to tell you that I know how to field strip an AK-47. That's true. She does.
00:42:31
Speaker
Yeah, that was early on. We were dealing with someone who who had accessories for rifles and and things like that. and he's foreign and assault he He specialized in anti-corruption assault weaponry.
00:42:46
Speaker
for some for a lot of SEO value. I wrote a four-part series on the history of the AK-47, and part of that was a detailed field stripping. Yeah, though that's one of those things I never thought I would know about. Yeah, we had to expense books for her i'm the history of the AK-47.
00:43:07
Speaker
and third one Well, it it's an interesting use case because the gun industry in particular is one that is fairly heavily regulated. Yes. And so it is incredibly difficult to write because there there is such a... no Yes, it was a little absurd, but it was also notably challenging. It was, yes. Some other interesting ones we've done, all the kombucha guy.
00:43:38
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah. about him Yes. With all of the different ways to ferment and preserve foods and tea. Yeah. Beautiful website. Great product. It was so interesting, but it was very niche. Yes.
00:43:56
Speaker
Yes, he couldn't understand why more people didn't want to drink fermented at home beverages. I think the kind of the the Lulu list would be the guy who wanted to wanted us to market his Justin Bieber t-shirts or the face of Justin Bieber that said that was a good Yeah, something about Justin Bieber loves Jesus or something like that. and was Yeah, that didn't even get to you. I didn't let that guy get to you. His whole goal was he wanted to make t-shirts with Justin Bieber's face on it that said, I love Jesus. I said, can't really do that. He said, no, it's fine because I heard him say it. So it's true. yeah but That's a licensed thing. You're going to get shut down for that. I will build you the thing. you' It's not going to last. No, it'll be fine.
00:44:44
Speaker
How about the HR conference? we had a my goodness i that was but were you a part of That was a legendary meeting on so many different fronts. but was It was, but yeah, he he wanted us to develop, market, and get registrations for an HR conference that he wanted to put on on on US HR laws in London.
00:45:13
Speaker
to European HR people who have very different HR laws than we do. And he wanted us to sell this conference, fill it up in a matter of, he wanted us to what, build and launch and fill it up in six weeks? Six six weeks. Which was a crazy timeline.
00:45:34
Speaker
He wanted to charge 500 pounds a head, so that was about $800 a seat. For European HR people to learn about US HR law, and when we scratched another layer and another layer and got down to the root reason that he wanted to do this, it was because he wanted to go to a concert in London and he wanted to figure out and how he his wife wouldn't let him go and and unless and he made the work. So he wanted to put this conference on while he was over there to earn enough money to cover the costs of his trip to go see this singer.
00:46:10
Speaker
That was a good one and he was so upset because that we said no, we can't really do that because he didn't have a network and be Why would anybody in the uk care about u.s? Laws in in six weeks, but he was so upset because he had already booked the hotel ballroom And got an array. Why was it available on such short notice? It was because it was a holiday weekend In the uk, so everybody was off on top of everything so to round up again massive price, no network, short turnaround on a holiday weekend for a a title, for a concept that nobody was really interested in and that couldn't mark it. We started this conversation with what are your company goals and then making them smart goals and then figuring out how to accomplish them. And we had to break the guy's heart and just say, this is just not going to fly.
00:47:05
Speaker
that do za it was actually considerably worse because he got insulting so finally i had to walk him out of the building and ah as i i did i was i said just do what every other american would do in this situation man just lie to your wife
00:47:20
Speaker
so Michelle, thank you
Conclusion and Contact Information
00:47:22
Speaker
so much. ah If people are interested in talking with you further and ah wanting to learn more about how they can strategize for their business, how do they find you? You can email me directly at michelle dot.hanson at busyweb dot.com. You can go out to our website, busyweb dot.com and navigate over to our team page. It has contact information for not only me, but anyone else that you might be interested in speaking Awesome. Thank you, Nicole. Thanks for joining. Dave, we'll be back the next time. I'm Trigby. This has been and another episode of Delight Inn and thanks to our sponsor, fractionaltactical dot.com. With apologies to Tony Kornheiser, we will also try to do better the next time.