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S3 Ep13: Navigating Human Resources with Sheri Stolp
34 Plays12 days ago
In this episode of the Dial It In podcast, hosts Trygve and Dave discuss human resources (HR) with Sheri Stolp, president of The Stolp Group. They explore the complexities of HR, including the evolution from personnel to strategic HR, the importance of hiring the right talent, and the challenges of the work-from-home era. The discussion touches on the impact of AI in hiring, the best practices for terminating employees, and adapting communication styles across different generations. Trygve and Sheri share personal anecdotes to illustrate the points. Sheri highlights the importance of being human-centered and proactive in HR practices, especially in handling difficult conversations and maintaining compliance with evolving laws.
Connect with Sheri and theStolpGroup
thestolpgroup.com
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Dial It In Podcast is where we gathered our favorite people together to share their advice on how to drive revenue, through storytelling and without the boring sales jargon. Our primary focus is marketing and sales for manufacturing and B2B service businesses, but we’ll cover topics across the entire spectrum of business. This isn’t a deep, naval-gazing show… we like to have lively chats that are fun, and full of useful insights. Brought to you by BizzyWeb.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:08
Speaker
Welcome to Dial It In, a podcast where we talk with fascinating people about marketing, sales, process improvements, and tricks that they use to grow their businesses. Join me, Dave Meyer, and Trig Bielson of FizzyWeb as we bring you interviews on
00:00:30
Speaker
Hello, fellow workplace proximity associate. Are you having an acceptable day? I am having a very acceptable day full of nothing but appropriate things and comments and thoughts. I am hoping that you have a non-denominational appropriate holiday season of your choosing and that you also enjoy something else. I am very happy to be reciprocating your seasonal greeting and reciprocating kind.
00:01:04
Speaker
I accept your reciprocation and thank you. Welcome. And wish you have an appropriate, you know what? I got, we're really bad at this. HR
HR Insights with Guest Expert
00:01:16
Speaker
is not our enemy. We should embrace the fact that we have an HR person on today and hopefully she can help help us do this a little bit better. It's your hands full today. Okay. Yeah. But let's try and be appropriate. David, who's our sponsor today?
00:01:30
Speaker
Our sponsor today is WeFix HubSpot. Is your HubSpot portal cluttered and inefficient? WeFix HubSpot powered by BusyWeb specializes in customizing and optimizing your HubSpot experience. Our team of certified experts offers tailored solutions, including training, re-onboarding, architecture reviews, and data restructuring, ensuring your digital portals align perfectly with your business needs.
00:01:55
Speaker
Don't let a disorganized system slow you down. Visit wefixhubspot dot.com to schedule your complimentary consultation and start transforming your HubSpot portal today. Excellent. Thank you, Dave. It's notable that we're having an HR professional today because I realized that I was told on the 26th of this month that we're recording, it will be 10 years at BusyWeb,
00:02:22
Speaker
and that our HR department celebrated by getting a completely sick second drawer for me for my HR file. yo yay Because I'm a walking HR nightmare. In order to ah facilitate that, I think we we
Leadership in HR with Sherry Stolt
00:02:36
Speaker
finally had to break down. I think we're 60 episodes in.
00:02:39
Speaker
Talk about at what point in your business is it time to bring in ah HR professionals to help you manage your people and help your business together to grow. so I'm blessed in that the only HR professional I know who will tolerate me on any level has decided to be our guest today. She is the president of her own organization. She's described as a skillful and creative leadership development research coach and facilitator of team building.
00:03:07
Speaker
conflict management and customer relations workshops. She is known for helping leaders improve their individual performance development and career satisfaction through impactful coaching engagements. ah In addition, she is a course author and adjunct professor at Cardinal Stritch and their MBA program, the areas of human resource strategy, business ethics, and organizational leadership.
00:03:32
Speaker
Additionally, she's a certified administrator for DDI, Laiminger, and Achieve Global, and presents at various conferences and seminars throughout the U.S. All that as her professional ah bona fides, she is also dragged down by having me as a friend. Please welcome Sherry Stolt. Thank you, Trigby. Thank you.
00:03:52
Speaker
So first question that I wanted to ask you for a long time, you were the ah HR person at a company called GNK Solutions in the late 90s. Why didn't you hire me?
00:04:06
Speaker
We should have, I think that was our our fault. When I think back to that time, we had a really great team and knowing who you are and what you're about, I think when you build strong, cohesive teams, you need to inject sense of humor. There is so much seriousness and so much compliance and things that I guess tax the supervisor population today.
00:04:27
Speaker
You need someone that's willing to have some fun, get serious when needs to be serious, and has a good work ethic, and I know you bring that. And most of the leaders today, fortunately that I work with, do bring that. The work ethic isn't the problem. I i don't claim that the comedy is good, just that there's plenty of it.
00:04:45
Speaker
So tell us a little bit about your work like at the STOLP group, and ah where where's your focus on as you are an an HR gun for hire?
Sherry Stolt's HR Journey
00:04:56
Speaker
Can I say that? An HR-undenominational weapon? You can say that. Just don't bring that weapon to the workplace. ah a A useful, utilitarian, philosophical tool for hire. There you go.
00:05:10
Speaker
I think about back in the day, and and we all maybe went through this, we were trying to uncover where is our path in life? What profession am I going to take on? And maybe some of you out there are also parents and you're trying to coach your are kids on this. And unfortunately, the Career Services Centers, although they try and have the right intent, they don't always guide people into what career path is right for them.
00:05:34
Speaker
And back in that day, I remember thinking about business being intriguing, fascinating, trying to think about what could I provide the world that I was passionate about to give back and to let them be the best that they could be. And so somewhere along the line in the business school, I was told that human resources was a major.
00:05:55
Speaker
And back in that day, and I'm dating myself, but if you remember, it was personnel and it changed at some point into HR. And I think rightfully, so I think personnel was your transactional, getting compliance taken care of, payroll and benefits work. And then it moved into, no, we offer a more strategic insight for a business owner or for a team leader, for an individual maybe wanting to improve themselves.
00:06:20
Speaker
So I was lucky enough after college to be employed by Fortune 100 and Fortune 500 businesses. And I learned very much and very quickly that you need to be focused and dedicated ah because you're affecting a large population. And they also have very hefty budgets. So you have Cadillac HR programs. um You don't just interview someone with a blank sheet of paper and ask, where are you going to be in five years?
00:06:47
Speaker
You have behavioral interviewing models. You have meter jumpstarts for executives that start and you want to assimilate them quickly. You might have a training program that's three months in length, just on board effectively.
00:07:02
Speaker
And what I thought about somewhere along that line was, how can I utilize these tools and provide them to a small to midsize company that might not need a full-time HR salaried professional? Some company out there that's growing quickly and the CEO is trying to figure out, how do I manage it? It's getting too big for me to make all the decisions.
00:07:23
Speaker
And around that time, all those kind of thoughts were going on in me. I was getting at holiday parties or in the neighborhood, walking with friends, questions like, Hey, I got something to ask you about the company I work for. I'm having a struggle with this coworker. um Or I don't know why my boss is not giving us PTO when we're paid out at the end of every year and we're not getting it.
00:07:45
Speaker
So I was starting to see this sort of surge of need. And in 2006, I had an unfortunate pivotal moment in my life. My husband of 15 years passed away unexpectedly, tragically in a snowmobile accident.
00:08:01
Speaker
He was up in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan with a bunch of guys from college. And not only was I in my early 30s and a young widow, I was actually also trying to figure out what does this do for me, even in my career path. The two-income earner wanted to start a family. And at the end of that journey, I thought, if I don't hang out a shingle now and try to make a goal of this, I'm never going to succeed.
00:08:28
Speaker
And so on a wing and a prayer in 2008, I left corporate and I was scared as all could get out. but You think about this moment, right? and And of course it was in the middle of a recession. So I had so many people telling me, are you sure this is the year, right Cher? You really want to make this work.
00:08:45
Speaker
I said, I'm just going to go back to something my father instilled in me early in my life, that when you give passion and you do things as best as you can, and you look back on mistakes and say, okay, I know I've learned that. Let's not do it again.
00:09:01
Speaker
you might actually hit the American dream. And I think you can, with a little bit of luck sprinkled in, get to that American dream. So in 2008, I had a sprinkling of clients, and I've managed through the years to maintain the business.
00:09:16
Speaker
while adding new clients. And I always say I treat my clients' businesses as my own. um So that's authentic delivery. It's leaving money on the table from time to time and kind of questioning that and saying, is that really what I need to be doing? Yes, it is. It's also by hearing their pain points and not just taking something off the shelf and delivering on it, but really listening and offering the right solution.
00:09:44
Speaker
So from a stop group perspective and the long answer that I always give, apologize for the long way we did this, I would say that you have to be strong in delivery coming through on your word. Also being listening in almost to a fault to find out what specifically, even when the client doesn't know how to articulate it, manage that delivery for them.
00:10:11
Speaker
that's amazing as a journey, Sherry. and Actually, our journey or my journey at BusyWeb is similar.
Remote Work and Hybrid Models Impact
00:10:19
Speaker
I started BusyWeb in 99, so we're actually 25 years old now, but wow I went full-time in 2008, right in the middle of that name.
00:10:30
Speaker
environments. And I think one of the coolest parts about starting in a economic downturn an intense economic downturn like that is you're immensely ready for any adversity that comes ahead. And I think we're in that similar spot right now. So as you're looking and as you're working with HR teams with smaller businesses, like you said, are there common themes that we're seeing going into this period that you had maybe when you started up? Or are things different now that work from home is much bigger?
00:11:06
Speaker
That's a great question. I think a lot about 2020 and the COVID world we all experienced. And at that time, a lot of employers were more old school. It was butts in seeds. It was everybody coming in on the day, Monday through Friday. And it was really awakening for America and I think the world that we could be trusted to work remotely and still be productive.
00:11:32
Speaker
And so where I see it today, the challenge that I'm envisioning to going forward 2025 and 26 are these very profitable businesses, and I'm hearing very strong forecasts ahead for 2025, that they're worried about these lofty, grandiose structures where their leasteri lease spaces are so expensive and the whole world still wants to work from home.
00:11:59
Speaker
So the biggest challenge for HR is how to understand what the employees need and then share that with the business owners and find a hybrid solution. And what I'm seeing even today is the value of listening. So it's employees saying, I can give you three days and in here on site, as long as I can select those three days based on my work home environment and things such like that.
00:12:25
Speaker
In players that are are sticklers about, you have to be here four days and nobody has Friday work from home. You're going to see turnover. We have to be realistic. People have opportunities. It's super easy to go on, whether you're on Indeed or LinkedIn. The hiring is only going to continue in 2025.
00:12:44
Speaker
I've known you for a long time and I think you've danced around this. HR as a concept has evolved over time from personnel to recruitment to benefits administration to employee terminations and disciplines and all the icky stuff. It's that it's the connective tissue that It is beyond just the work product and delivering the work product or the selling and delivering on the selling. It's the connective tissue that really holds the business together. and It's so much more dynamic than just one thing. and so Where does a business start when they realize yeah and they've started, they've grown? When is it time to bring in an outside expert?
00:13:30
Speaker
I get that question actually quite often. And what I suggest is when the owner or the CEO feels the need. Now people say, that's like a lawyer telling you it depends. That's not where I'm going with it. What I want to say is they will know when it gets to be too much to have the pulse on every activity going on in their business. They will know when they don't want to be a part of every single interview candidate for an opening they have.
00:13:57
Speaker
Typically that goes somewhere around the 25 employee mark. Prior to that, they'll have their accountant or a payroll person running that side of their business. But at 25, 30 employees, they may start hiring their first layer of a supervisor or team leader that they're entrusting. And so you have to realize then you better be hiring appropriately because you won't be at that table making those decisions, having those conversations.
00:14:25
Speaker
So it's so important, it's imperative, and a lot of what I do as small business owners as we talk about, what is in your interview model? Do you have the right questions? Are you asking the right thought ah questions and getting the right insights to hire the highest caliber talent?
00:14:42
Speaker
Because once you do that, it it's easy. They will call you when they need to. you they You entrust them to say, okay, they know the level, now I better call the boss. And you're able to then expand markets. You're able to focus on the quality of your product or service offering.
00:14:59
Speaker
You're also able to do other things like public speak or generate more publicity for your business. So other, the revenue streams occur, but it's the hiring. It's the most important thing I think an employer needs to think about with their hype. I've been waiting for a while to get you on the pod. Cause I want to ask this, this question is all the people that I know that are looking for jobs.
00:15:24
Speaker
what and they're not getting a response. It's usually because a larger company is using a software tool to read people out. Yes. The intent behind it is that hiring managers really only going to look at the absolute best qualified people. But there's been a big gamification of that, I think, so that people understand that. so They're just ginning up stuff in order to get past the first gatekeeper.
00:15:52
Speaker
and I've always felt that loses a sense of authenticity of really who you're going to be hiring because statistically you spend more time with the people that you work with or at least waking hours than your actual family. so What's your take on AI in the workplace? especially That's a big question. so As it relates to hiring,
00:16:14
Speaker
Do you think, how is AI affecting higher end models?
AI in Hiring: Pros and Cons
00:16:18
Speaker
That's an excellent question. And AI is the most impactful and dangerous phenomenon that not just HR is experiencing, but all disciplines. And finding is that Already candidates, as you just spoke of, are realizing there are software tools like Resumix, for instance, or there's Taleo and some of these programs that limit the amount of human time that a person needs to do to look at all the Resumix. So if you have, say, in a software engineer, Resume may be a little blurb about, oh, Unix. And again, I might be dating myself. This goes back years that I recalled that rant.
00:17:01
Speaker
That might be a buzzword where that software generates a, okay, this candidate is good for this hiring process. So these HR screeners or the hiring manager, if it's a smaller business, will get a subset of all the ones that came in the door or through the email. So it's a frustration in my mind because you're missing and a lot of great candidates if you only solely rely on those software tools.
00:17:30
Speaker
I'd also say that the whole automated process with AI is very impersonal. I was at a client last week, holiday week, it was the last Monday, and he said to me, my HR manager is stressing that we need to use the AI tool to do the first pass of interviews.
00:17:51
Speaker
And I said, this is interesting. I'm in this field, but I'd like to see this. I've heard about it, but I'd like to see it. So I sat and watched on their screen and it's it looks human. It's eerie, but it it is certainly a robotic AI and it is showcasing like an interview and they're asking questions. And I said to the owner, I said, what if I gave a completely crazy answer? What if I was recognizing as a candidate that you were doing this and I was offended? And I thought maybe I'd answer maybe in medical terms for a software position. And he said they wouldn't get the job. And I said, this is terrible because we're still human out here looking for a career. And when you start playing with you're not worth our time, you might be losing good caliber talent.
00:18:41
Speaker
And so he thought about that. I actually have to circle back with him in two weeks for having a lunch and checking in on what did they decide to do. I told him I didn't think it was the right course. I'm okay with the Resomic software as long as you put in the right filters, but having an actual rope interview the first pass of candidates, that just did it for me.
00:19:04
Speaker
yeah it It also feels dangerous because a lot of the AI tools out there, every a AI tool out there has an inherent bias based on the content that it's brought out and that it's trained on. So you're probably seeing less diverse populations, probably people that are very strictly aligned to what the job role is asking for, and you're going to miss some really great people in that case.
00:19:31
Speaker
Yes. How do you guard against that bias or some of the issues that AI just introduces? I think I would focus more on the traditional hiring model. and I'd go back to the behavioral interview questions that have been predictive validity, statistically proven answered for the job fit itself. and so I do do a lot of work with Lominger. It's ah an actual program where we do card sorts.
00:19:58
Speaker
to determine the competencies necessary for ah an effective or quality hire. And if you have those right questions in place, whether you want them to fill it out online or you do, ah I would recommend a face-to-face, could be over Zoom or Teams, but I do feel that you gain the best, ah statistically best result. If you're going to use AI, use it in another type of process.
00:20:23
Speaker
What I see a lot in HR would be an organization say wanting to put together a sexual harassment policy. Back in the day, we had to figure that out ourselves and create for hours and hours this practice. But what you can do with AI now is just type in that question and you get 20 different sexual harassment policies that you can choose to use. But I'd again strongly recommend having your legal look at the final product before you enact it in your culture.
00:20:53
Speaker
Because AI, as we know, acts like confidently and acts like this is the truth. But you might be missing on some key compliance concerns, especially if it's a certain state in our country like California or Washington, even Minnesota.
00:21:11
Speaker
I think ki my favorite case of ah AI abuse was, what was the name of Donald Trump's lawyer? Michael Cohen. Oh, yes. He used AI to cite case law. And one of the cases that he, and that he gave his lawyers that they ended up putting in an actual brief for court was finders versus keepers. Bro. Not. Yeah.
00:21:33
Speaker
It's a great example of that, relying on it as that's legal or true. Yeah. I think HR specifically, I think people who do the HR role, are they take the role not because they want to be the whole monitor of the NARC, because they genuinely care about people. and This is such a the a AI is such a classic example of taking that off the table, is taking that human element off the table, just for the sake of trying to speed things up. All right, so that's the first part. So let's go to the let's go to the last part then.
Sensitive HR Practices: Termination Day
00:22:08
Speaker
What's the best way to fire some money?
00:22:10
Speaker
but but I love this question. Would it be on a Monday or a Friday? i Another great question. Personally, I would suggest Monday um if you are going to terminate and people say, why is that? It gives that individual four additional days that week to start looking for employment. The weekends might be a little tricky or no one's really answering any calls even if you want to call into the business.
00:22:35
Speaker
Monday gives them a little bit of a, okay, now I have some time here this week to get focused. The best way to terminate, I would say, is so that the employee knows it's coming. There's an asterisk to that answer, and that would be with gross misconduct. Someone that steals from you, punches out a boss, does something so egregious that they have to go that moment. But most of the time,
00:22:58
Speaker
It's typically performance or behavioral-based, and what I suggest companies do is first train their supervisors proactively. So when the issues pop up, they know what to do. Now, in a larger organization, they have strenuous processes, which includes a verbal or a written, maybe two additional written and then a final, maybe suspension could be paid, could be unpaid, and then termination.
00:23:25
Speaker
In a smaller business, I would just say make sure the employee has a feeling that they know they're not performing or doing the right thing. And then when you have that final sit down, it's on an entire shock to the system. And most at that of of those scenarios don't end up in a going postal scenario. Those that just lift the rug out or they have terrible people skills as a supervisor and sort of are afraid to have those tough conversations all the way along the way, that's when you get at this, oh my gosh, they're coming back.
00:23:58
Speaker
And I'll share a quick little story, and Trigby might have heard this as we work together. um but But early in my career, I worked for a Snap-on Tool. Some of you have heard of it. Some of you even have Snap-on Tools in your your garages today. Great organization.
00:24:14
Speaker
I was out in the plant settings in some rural parts of of Wisconsin, Delavan and East Troy. And some of you that are music lovers may have even been to East Troy to go to a few concerts at Alpine Valley. But anyway, our plant was right there.
00:24:29
Speaker
And we had a rough and tough group of guys that worked. and It was a manufacturing diagnostic tools for cars. So when they put a car up on a hoist and they used like computer analyzers or scans to see what's wrong, we actually produced that equipment in the plane.
00:24:46
Speaker
And I was the HR manager. And I thought I knew, I got out of college, I'm going to save the world, and so excited, my first job. And I'm sitting there, and that the supervisor walked in and said, you know what, Sherry, we're going to have to terminate Roy. And this was about 8 in the morning. And I said, what happened? And he worked the third ship. He had a fight with his fellow coworker. Now I knew about Roy, and he had a kind of a bad reputation. And I said, all right.
00:25:11
Speaker
So the plant manager and the manager of that group and I, we got into the conference room and we brought Roy. And he sat down and he said, I know I'm here, you're canning me. And the plant manager was fairly new. And I looked to him thinking he'd say something, but he didn't. So here I was all of like 24 years old and I was the spokesperson. And I said, Roy, unfortunately we know an incident occurred on the third shift last night and With that altercation, it's triggered a termination of employment. You've also had several situations here in your file. Even though I wasn't here, I've read about them and and we're going to, unfortunately, depart ways. And he pushed his sort of chair away from the conference table. and he
00:25:55
Speaker
That's fine. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to go down to the corner bar, take a couple of captain and copes with me, go home, get my sawed off shotgun, and come back and blow up the place. And he said it just like that. And I looked at the plant manager. I looked at the supervisor.
00:26:13
Speaker
And I just said, we're going to need you to exit now and we're going to walk you to your locker and you're going to take your things. And we're going to do this as a serious threat. So we're going to leave right now. And we went to his, we had safety shoes and things because it's manufacturing and he grabbed everything and he's banging the lockers as he walks out. He gets in his jacked up truck and it was like a rust bucket of a truck. And he pulled out and then you could hear screeching go all the way down our industrial park.
00:26:41
Speaker
I got on the horn to corporate, the plant manager got on the horn to the police and a rural town, everybody, they're just twiddling their thumbs out there. And I'm sorry to say it like that, but boy, this was like the issue of the century, right? So we had 30 cops and patrols and everybody surrounding the business bar. And of course we're like looking out, is the truck coming back? And sure enough, he came back and he nabbed one in the back of his truck and they nabbed him before he even got to our driveway that came up to our plant.
00:27:11
Speaker
But I think about that and I think about learning that in my 20s. And I say this sometimes in in ways to inform that you just never know. And this guy actually worked there for 10 years. And I'm not sure what kind of a life he led outside. I think it was really his life to work there. So I tell employers, please be honest with people all the way along. And then when things don't work out, they know, yeah, it was common.
00:27:41
Speaker
So that would be my answer to that. Wow. And invest in vests, right? Yes, yes. That's unbelievable. I don't think I've ever heard that cool story. Well, okay. On the lighter side, I would imagine that this is, it's slightly different on virtual engagements or people that are employed or remote, right? Yes. Do you have any examples of maybe things that have gone either really well or funny things that you've had to mitigate. And I'll start with a story of my own. yeah I was in corporate communications for a large bank, one of one of the top five in the country. And as part of this running corporate communications, I had to deal with some HRE things once in a while. I like someone email me and I have a relatively common name. There were two other Dave Myers at this organization. And this person emailed me
00:28:37
Speaker
a video, an animated gif of a person skydiving in the nude and everything was flapping very vigorously. And I had to email this person back and say, I think you meant to reach the other Dave Meyer, but speaking from corporate communications perspective, this is probably something that you should never send to anyone on a corporate network because they sent it with ah that that yeah mga address two the head of corporate communications and I was like, yeah, not a great idea. So do you have similar that might've happened with your team? oopsy Yeah. Yes. This happens more frequently and thankfully than terminations. but
00:29:18
Speaker
When you have um individuals that just have one aspect of their performance that's lacking, I always talk to the supervisor above that individual first, and I say, you sandwich these conversations. You first share with the employee all the good things that that they're doing, and and if they really are, note them, add that value in the conversation.
00:29:39
Speaker
Then in the middle, say, Bob, there's just one thing that I'd like to say we need to work on. And we all have this thing, Bob, maybe mine's different than yours, but I'd like you to focus a little bit more so on ah and say along the way of my own life, I had to work through this. And sometimes it still gets to me, but I think overall I'm managing that. I have confidence that you could do that too.
00:30:02
Speaker
And at the end, I'm here for you. You've got my support. I have your back. And at the end of the day, we all like working with you here. So just know that. So I get a lot of those either through teams, supervisor, I coach leaders, mostly director levels and above. I also coach doctors and small business owners. And I do help do leadership training, lunch and learns that's virtual.
00:30:27
Speaker
um um Once a month, I have two different clients where we have a different leadership topic each month. It's anything from conflict resolution one month to how to deliver an effective performance review to um how do I recruit and screen effectively for that rate higher. So a lot of different topics because as a supervisor, most of the time, they weren't trained in those topics. They were good at what they did and someone tapped him on the shoulder and says, now you're the boss.
00:30:57
Speaker
And they very much want to learn. I'll come into these where I have a client now where they have distribution centers around the country. We jump on 15th of every month, then hour and a half lunch and learn over at the lunch hour. And they'll say, I could have used this 10 years ago. Like it's simple techniques on how to be a better leader.
00:31:17
Speaker
but I get those quite a bit. And I think their heart's in the right place. And I actually think that their intention is good. It's just, it gets lost sometimes in the translation moment. Stress under pressure is mostly the culprit. Stress under pressure.
00:31:33
Speaker
I enjoy a good naked skydiving video as much as the next fella, as much as I enjoy a bump, a bourbon at the end of a day. But those are things I keep to the confines of my home, all my encyclopedia of naked skydiving, as well as my bourbon.
00:31:50
Speaker
is not kept in the workplace. Sharing one of the things that I've noticed that is more and more prevalent today than years past is the generational differences between people.
Generational Communication Styles at Work
00:32:05
Speaker
and the interactivities of those generations. and and I think there's also a cliche a dismissiveness cliche that I, as a white cisgender Generation X male, realize I'm very painfully aware of is not dismissing people as, oh, you're just one of them. What Is that just me or is that are a lot of people facing that? And how do you counsel people in dealing with people who are either older or quite a bit younger than them?
00:32:37
Speaker
Oh my gosh, i I really appreciate this question because I talk a lot about this. I delivered a presentation to the Lakefield Chambers Leadership Lakefield Group about a month ago on this topic. And it was actually interesting because in the room were all the generations represented with the exception of the traditionalists. So when you think about it, we have five generations right now.
00:33:00
Speaker
We have the traditionalists that are those that sometimes you see those individuals actually like in a retail environment, like a Walmart, they're pushing the cart to you when you walk in would be an example. And then you have your, your baby boomer generation that are either nearing retirement or are in retirement.
00:33:17
Speaker
You have the X, which is what you just spoke of, Trigby, and the latchkey kid generation. And we had some unique parenting styles where they were just sending us out to play without the worry of bicycle helmets and all the rest, right?
00:33:32
Speaker
Then you have the why or millennial generation. And that generation has ah very unique viewpoints about technology, research, adding value with questioning why, pushing forth the human desire, like, what's in it for me? Which is interesting for other generations to hear because they think, just suck it up and put in your time. Why are you squawking?
00:33:56
Speaker
Then you have your Z generation, which are those individuals that are the yeah not the youngest yet, because there's technically another generation right now following them that are your part-timers, your 15-year-olds that truly aren't in the the workplace yet. But the Zs are mirroring the X generation, and maybe you've heard that.
00:34:16
Speaker
But the Z's are saying, I'm going to put in my time. I'm going to value mentorship. I want someone to mentor me and teach me the rope. I believe in hard work and I'm going to make it happen and get promoted. And that's really infuriating because the whys are like, I just got out of college. Why am I not a director?
00:34:36
Speaker
So there's some very much clashing ideals. Real quickly, a story, I worked with a group of teachers, my client was the principal, and we chatted about some dissension amongst the teaching area. And it was the Y generation and the baby boomers and exes combating one another.
00:34:56
Speaker
physically right. But one of the issues they had was the staff meeting on a Wednesday morning that was at 7 a.m. and it was once a week and it was before class started and all the teachers were expected to get in there a few minutes before 7 so that when the principal started talking everybody was right. For some reason there were three teachers in that Y generation that were never on time or they strolled in with their Starba like about 720. They're starving.
00:35:25
Speaker
yeah And the issue was the others, the younger, excuse me, the more older generation or those that have been there for some time were wondering, can they not get here on time as the alarm clock broke? What's the deal? And so I did a quick focus group with that group. And I learned very simply that the principal had to commit to standard and to really whole hold accountable those that weren't meeting that standard.
00:35:49
Speaker
And we worked on ways to do so and upset the union and long story short, it's no better. But again, it's our ways of doing work are different and sometimes showing up differently, acting and saying things differently, acting in a manner at a maybe holiday party that you might not think would be acceptable and you'd wonder why are they even thinking that's okay.
00:36:14
Speaker
And I've got a bias, too. I'm in the X generation, and I have to check my bias at the door, certainly with clients, but also in my impressions if I'm reading something. Because really, the at the value add every generation brings is necessary for business success.
00:36:31
Speaker
Because I'll just say the whys, they are so good at getting answers that I think exes might just not even think to look. So there's certain attributes we need to be open to as employers. And also I would see be fair and consistent with policy application, like in that principal teacher story.
00:36:53
Speaker
I think one of the things that feels different for sure between the different generations is certainly communication styles as well. feels I joke and I do talks for Google and HubSpot and other companies, but when I'm on the road, I was like, what's the rudest thing that you could possibly do to a younger generation, a digital native? And the answer to that, of course, is to call them without texting them first.
00:37:18
Speaker
yeah So how do you counsel or help leaders to say if they are a Gen X and they believe in just leaving a voicemail for people or want to engage in verbal communication when you're dealing with someone that would much rather just LOL, BRB them and and send them a text?
00:37:39
Speaker
Excellent question. So I actually offer a communication workshop and I deliver it to different industries, but it has the same theme and the same approach no matter where you work. And it's about listening to what the receiver needs. So if you're a supervisor and you have 10 people and you work in an operations function, your goal and hopefully your job or committed job is to figure out what makes each of those 10 people tick.
00:38:06
Speaker
You may have Susie, who's a YGen that needs to have a text like you just referred to, but you have Paula as a boomer that she likes when you get up from your desk and go talk to her at her workstation.
Tailoring Communication for Employees
00:38:20
Speaker
And so what you should do is master who is working for you and how do you tailor your approach communication-wise to each person.
00:38:30
Speaker
Now, when I work with physicians in the OR, you have varying degrees of personality. So you have your OR staff, like your individuals that are like your nurses. in your lab ah Before you move off of that point, I think it's good to recognize that the pushback on most business owners get is similar to what we get when we're looking at websites. as People say, no, they work for me. So they need to adjust to me.
00:38:56
Speaker
yeah And so there what there's a big difference of being right and being successful. If you want to be right, great. You're going to have people come and go. But if you want to be successful, you have to do what Sherry just said. Sorry, back to the doctors. No, i I want to go back into what you just said it was an astute there because what you're talking about is the attitude of the leader or in a CEO's chair. Hey, it's my way or the highway. I was at a client's first just two days ago and I did a focus group. and with some of the complaints by the employees were that the owner has that sort of attitude like it's my way the highway there is the door if you don't like it and i have to communicate it to a clock to that owner today that's what they were saying so you hit that on the mark and i want to go back to going back to what we we went back to and i want you to say more nice things about me
00:39:46
Speaker
You're the best, Trigby. Oh, perfect. All right. So I interrupted your narrative where we're talking about the doctors. The doctors, I coach seven to 10 doctors a year and they're coaching engagements of about eight to 10 months a year. And what we do is work on an area or aspect of their performance that they're struggling with.
00:40:02
Speaker
Discipline-wise, fetal surgery, urology, neurology, they're experts, they're saving a lot. But when it comes to soft skills, bedside manner, if you will, they struggle. And actually, they don't want to struggle. They've just never learned technically how to manage that. And so what I talk about is it's all rooted in communication.
00:40:21
Speaker
So if you have a nurse in front of you and you're not listening to what she's sharing, is she going to provide you the insights you need in a future patient scenario that's going to help you be the best doctor you want to be in the country, sometimes the world?
00:40:36
Speaker
I think they need to think about how do they come across and what the person in front of them needs. So we look at, are they nodding their head? Are they looking at their watch? Are they giving a furled brow or being angry with their comments back to you? And so that's what a supervisor in any capacity needs to think through, a business owner. And if they're not willing to adjust their style, they better get ready to have turnover.
00:41:03
Speaker
because people just don't put up with that. I'm not saying do everything for them, it's not to that degree, but a servant leader is mindful of what people in front of them need.
Managing Difficult Conversations in Leadership
00:41:16
Speaker
I think one of the things that is difficult for just about anybody, especially as they move into a managerial role, is having tough conversations.
00:41:26
Speaker
and and having having to be presented to share something that's potentially bad with somebody and helping them work through it. So can you give us some, and there's a myriad of different ways in which that manifests itself, but can you give us some basic guide works of if you're gonna have a tough conversation with somebody, how should you do that? So the funny thing is people feel like they shouldn't have butterflies in their stomach, or they feel like they should, this should be easy peasy. It's not. Even for those that are nearing the end of their career,
00:41:55
Speaker
they really struggle to put it on the calendar. What they should recognize is that if they're planned and they're actually rehearsed, it's going to go much better and much more smoothly than if they shoot from the hip and try to squeeze it in on a Wednesday from 3 to 3.50.
00:42:13
Speaker
So think about your week, think about when you're at your best. Some people are good in the mornings. Some people like to maybe at two or three after they've done a lot of their day, have that kind of a conversation. Think about what makes you best and then rehearse it. And I get these calls probably twice a month from different clients that want to rehearse with me. I tell them ahead of time, they email me, I'll say, write it all out and then we're going to practice like a role.
00:42:41
Speaker
and I'm the employee and they tell me this is what they're going to say and then I mention back this is what I heard or this is what you need to edit but mostly what it is if it's heartfelt and it's like I talked about earlier in the sandwiching effect it could also be I call it the testimonial approach like being honest about what you as the leader have screwed up to and even come up with a story, make it up, but remember it and say it to that employee. If I could tell you something back 10 years ago, this is when I goofed royally. I sent this email out. It should have never went out to everybody, but it did. Those are the authenticity moments.
00:43:22
Speaker
that connect you to that employee and they walk out learning something. The goal you want is behavioral change. If you're a tyrant or if you're someone that just seems sloppy and and can't even get the words out what you want to say because you're so stressed by the conversation, you're never going to win. You want to make that successful because you don't want the person to leave. The goal should be that they correct the behavior and they stay with you.
00:43:47
Speaker
behavioral change and obviously adding to your naked skydiving video collection. yeah one One last question before before we wrap up, I know compliance with laws and because employees have rights, yeah so compliance as a whole is often really overwhelming for small business owners.
Compliance and Small Business Challenges
00:44:07
Speaker
yes What are some basics that people really need to have an understanding of in order to understand some pitfalls?
00:44:14
Speaker
but It's funny how compliance ebbs and flows in my occupation. Recently, there are several right now that are on the docket that employers need to watch out for. This year was the employee sick and safe leave. Next year is going to be the paid Minnesota paid time off. There's also new I-9. And there's the compliance components and what I call those are the transactional approaches to HR.
00:44:40
Speaker
transformational compliance would be something like Minnesota now needs to post all of their wage ranges for openings. It was a California and West Coast based requirement. Now it's hit our state. There's also interviewing questions that used to be illegal that are now legal and vice versa. The one. Yeah. Like what? Like, the one. I can finally ask Dave how old he is.
00:45:05
Speaker
That's still illegal. ah shoot right let's edit that I think what you want to do is when you ask candidates compensation questions, you don't ask what was your prior salary history or what were you make what were you making at the last employer. That's now an illegal question.
00:45:25
Speaker
you ask them, what are your expectations for compensation relative to this role? So you're asking for what they like, not what they've made. That's a slight. The other one that was more recent in the last five years, the application form can't ask if you've been convicted of a felony any longer. What was happening why well what was happening is that somewhere along the line in the federal government, they were discovering that People that were in prison that are now out of prison on parole or have served their time were in this cycle of not gaining employment when they were being honest about being a felon. Now, interestingly enough, when you do a background check that is actually a legal process, legal,
00:46:15
Speaker
So they're doing a check on backgrounds of criminal history. So that's acceptable. What they don't want us doing is in the interview process, taking people out of the running in the process early on so that they don't even get a chance to interview.
00:46:31
Speaker
um And also, just to keep in mind, felonies are all over the board. So you can have a drunk driving felony that has nothing to do with your job at Maurice's retail hanging clothes on racks, right? If you're a delivery driver, that has everything to do with the essential function, the drunk driving. So again, we have to be job specific and we have to make sure that we're not inadvertently keeping old forms like an application we've used because it's worked for 20 years. We have to have a partnership with either a company like mine, or if you really want some interesting bedtime reading, go on the Department of Labor website and you can print off value, not only of current compliance statutes, but what's coming down the pipe. Obviously facetious.
00:47:19
Speaker
yeah There's certainly resources online if you're curious. Yeah. i Thank
Humorous HR Anecdote: The Drug Test Song
00:47:24
Speaker
you for that. I think I want to share my, I was thinking of my best HR story is I used to run a temp service and I got a call from our biggest client and they said, oh yeah, Sally or Jane or whatever it was, say Jane. Jane has been talking to some of her fellow employees and talking about how she's partied all night with cocaine. So can you come deal with that? like What do you want me to do about it? Okay.
00:47:52
Speaker
So I go out there and my contact was a VP of HR and said, I have this problem, what should I do? And she's, I don't know what that looks like, can we look it up? So we started looking up like how to tell if somebody's on cocaine, which within about 10 minutes, the IT director came by because they were like, oh, you shouldn't be looking that up. So we got busted by IT t immediately.
00:48:18
Speaker
And okay. So we had to interview a couple of people and say, tell us the story, tell get let's get out. By the way, I had 103 degree fever while this was happening. So I was walking out the door. cocaine were not No, the cocaine was, that i was totally different. That was that helped with the skydiving.
00:48:35
Speaker
And then we finally brought the candidate in. And so we said to the candidate is, I have to take you for testing immediately to have your blood tested and then pending the results so that you're suspended. But if it comes back clean, then you'll be reinstated with full pay. She's okay, fine. So I get in the car and i I have to drive her to the testing facility because I i can't allow her to drive herself.
00:49:00
Speaker
Anybody want to guess the song that came comes on the classic rock station that I left the car on? Cocaine. Cocaine by Eric Clapton. so wow work word followed by she's so high. Yeah. It's just, wow, that could have gone worse. So then I take her down and she gets tested. I drive her back and I say, okay, so just again, don't come back to work. You will, will inform the the results of the test. Once the results of the tests are in, if everything comes back fine, then, you know, you'll be reinstated with full pay and back pay. And she's, oh yeah, no, it's going to come back positive. So we'll see you and walked away from me.
00:49:40
Speaker
What on earth was the last two hours for? Exactly. She knew you were going to do that. She should have come clean. No pun intended, right? I'm rarely sticking Dayquil up my nose just to make it through. Can't you cut a guy? ah but Yeah. So that was my worst thing. Story. Sherry, where can people find you if they want to learn more about the initiatives? and And you talked about some of the classes you're offering. Where can people find you online?
00:50:05
Speaker
Sure. At my website, thestoltgroup.com. And feel free to review all the different service offerings there, my my phone numbers on there, my email i address. Feel free to just reach out to me, whatever you're comfortable with. And I can share too, with the clients that come connecting to me, some of the recent scenarios where I've helped clients and what's out there today with compliance. I know I spent some time here today sharing, but there's additional compliance needs today too. I'd be happy to talk about.
00:50:35
Speaker
Dave, final thoughts before we wrap up? Yeah, HR is such a thorny and interesting and human powered environment that it really pays to engage with a professional like Sherry. And if you have questions, I can encourage you enough to ask those questions before they become a real issue. And also not to lose the insight that, yeah, we're talking about human resources, but we're what we're really talking about is you're working with people and as employers, as business owners, it's our job to bring the best out of our teams for the good of our customers. I hate it when people function or when they talk too much about We've got to manage our human resources and our staffs and all that. it's These are people. So remember and give people a little grace. And by all means, raise your hand early because there are a lot of ways that things can go wrong inside of the staffing and human elements of business. So thank you for joining and sharing your knowledge.
00:51:45
Speaker
Thank you, Sherry. And Dave, please feel free and distribute the skydiving video ah to everybody. Sure, sure. No problem. This has been dial another episode of Dial It In, produced by Andy Wachowski and Nicole Fairclough. I'm Trigby, he's Dave, and with apologies to Tony Kornheiser, we will also try to do better the next time.