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SPA CEO Matthew Deaner: Screen Forever tips and advice for producers
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Screen Producers Australia (SPA) CEO Matthew Deaner joins the podcast ahead of the annual conference Screen Forever, which takes place in late April 2026. The conference is made up of two parts – the online Global Market, and the in-person conference and market, which runs for three days (April 28-30) on the Gold Coast. Throughout the podcast, Matthew gives tips for anyone planning on attending Screen Forever, as well as talking through what Screen Producers Australia is and does, and his thoughts on the state of the Australian industry following a tough 2025.
SPA was also part of the successful, years-long push to introduce local content quotas for streaming services – under the new laws, passed in Parliament in November 2025, streaming services with more than one million Australian subscribers will be required to invest at least 10% of their total program expenditure for Australia—or 7.5% their revenue—on new local drama, children's, documentary, arts and educational programs. In addition, the ABC will also receive a $50 million funding boost over 3 years to support the production of new Australian children's and drama content. On the other side of that bill passing, Matthew also talks to SPA’s focuses going forward, advice for producers, and more.
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Transcript
Introduction and Acknowledgement
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to Breaking Screen, a podcast about the Australian screen industry and the creative people within it. I'm your host, Caris Bizzaca and I'm recording this podcast from the lands of the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation, where I'm very grateful to be a visitor and be able to work on these lands.
00:00:19
Speaker
Always was, always will be.
Guest Introduction: Matthew Diener
00:00:22
Speaker
On today's episode is Screen Producers Australia CEO, Matthew Deaner who joins us ahead of the annual conference Screen Forever, which takes place in late April, 2026. The conference is made up of two parts, the online global market and the in-person conference and market, which runs for three days on the Gold Coast.
Local Content Quotas on Streaming Services
00:00:43
Speaker
Throughout the podcast, Matthew gives tips for anyone planning on attending Screen Forever, as well as talking through what Screen Producers Australia is and does, and his thoughts on the state of the Australian industry following a tough 2025.
00:00:58
Speaker
SPA was also part of the successful years-long push to introduce local content quotas for streaming services. Under the new laws passed in Parliament in November 2025, Streaming services with more than 1 million Australian subscribers will be required to invest at least 10% of their total program expenditure for Australia, or 7.5% of their revenue, on new local drama, children's documentary arts and educational programs. In addition, the ABC will also receive a $50 million dollars funding boost over three years to support the production of new Australians' children and drama content.
Career Journey and Key Moments
00:01:37
Speaker
On the other side of that bill passing, Matthew also talks to Spar's focuses going forward, advice for producers and much more. Here's that chat.
00:01:50
Speaker
So we always start the podcast the same way, the same question. um And it's about inciting incidents. So, you know, we talk about, yeah. So, you know, in screenwriting, yeah we talk about inciting incidents. So what would be the inciting incident of your career?
00:02:08
Speaker
ah Hang on. i I was thinking that was a typo and and and it was exciting. What does incite? I've got to now look it up. um Oh, God. So an inciting incident is the thing that kind of, you know, if you're watching a feature film, it usually happens like 15, 20 minutes in and it's the thing that sets the whole rest of the film off on its journey so it's the call to action or the call you know for the hero to step up or whatever it is so if you think about it as like the a major turning point that kind of set you on the path that you're now on what would be the inciting incident
00:02:47
Speaker
Okay, can i if I can share, there's two. And ah one of them, and it's good to be non-prepared as a response as well. and There are two that I think are really relevant, one of which is growing up in regional Australia. And we were in Launceston as a child in Tasmania. And I think I enjoyed that experience, but it was a bit small and a bit suffocating at times to...
00:03:16
Speaker
when you wanted to experience the outside world and you wanted to see how other things were. So i i really i really understood and felt the power of media and story and what was communicated on screen at a young age, as probably a lot of people do, but I felt very called to be a part of that of the industry at a very early point. so every opportunity I got from a regional centre to go into the ABC and to do work experience and to do things from that point on was about being a part of this very powerful medium and having an opportunity to contribute to that, recognising that there was a lot in that. So that was ah a big moment when
Legal Background and Career Transition
00:03:53
Speaker
I was developing. And then
00:03:54
Speaker
I think that there's another moment that I think of a lot in my, you know, factors of how you deal with the hand that's in front of you. And it was 2020 when COVID was happening and there was ah an opportunity to have to step into a leadership piece and be very communicative with people on a regular basis.
00:04:14
Speaker
because there wasn't the capacity for other people to necessarily do that and that was intimidating. was like, how do i navigate a world in which a lot of people are feeling probably very uncertain, a bit like maybe youre right at the moment, but to a perhaps more acute way and how do you lead in that space even if you're trying to protect your own organisation?
00:04:36
Speaker
And i think for various reasons and many people supported me in that, but I was able to kind of step out more than i was. And that I think was important in reflecting the value of leadership and value of kind of being able to run at the thing that's the problem, which I think the best in our industry can do. They can kind of go, okay, there's a set of challenges. Let's run forward at it, not let's back away
Interest in Media Policy and Strategy
00:04:59
Speaker
or retreat. So yeah, those two moments stand out for me.
00:05:03
Speaker
And so ah you mentioned there, but also, you know, I was i was reading that you have a legal background, both overseas and in Australia. What type of law did you specialize in?
00:05:14
Speaker
Yeah, it was interesting because and maybe there are other people in the industry that are like this where they were drawn to the industry, but they're not quite sure what the access point is if you don't have pathways that are obvious to you or times maybe resources that can sustain you. So i opted for not having, you know, we didn't have resources. So i opted for the the most secure pathway I could find and that was law in terms of training and I was lucky I was able to get through those.
00:05:44
Speaker
painful years of study, but I could bend law into media, intellectual property, broadcast, those sorts of things. And i finished my degree in Canada, in Montreal, and landed in London. And in London, of course, you're I was able to go to the buffet of many creative industry pieces and media part of that. So I worked for a couple of law firms. One was, and I think they probably all collapsed and become parts of other things, but one was a little small firm called Oldswang and another one was called Theodore Goddard.
00:06:13
Speaker
And um they both looked after film bibles, as they were called, or contracts with Channel 4 on behalf production companies or things like that, which were a way to kind of start to tap into the industry. And also they were good for me, giving for me permission to go and work on a production for a few weeks and come back to the to the law firm or go and work it um as I did for Turner Broadcasting Corporation. in scheduling and types of work that kind of gave me a little bit more of a 360 of how the sector operates. And that was all part of, i think, the the DNA of, okay, let's get building blocks in my head around how this is all working and what happens. And if we look at at how this industry works, contracting is is pretty fundamental to the frameworks of everything that happens. So I feel like I got a good grounding early on in certain elements, not everything, because I feel like you continue to learn in this role and in any part of this sector continues to evolve. So, know, what I might have known in the late 90s, early 2000s is no longer in any way relevant to anything, but it it set me off into how to go through so kind of a secure education piece and start down a path of dipping my toe in water that I wanted to eventually swim more in.
00:07:28
Speaker
oh And so you worked in policy and strategy ah at places like Screen Australia. We didn't actually cross over at Screen Australia at the same time. I think that was a um I started after you had already left. But i feel like some of that policy and strategy stuff has, like you were saying with law, has also carried over into your current role. What is it about working in policy and strategy that you're drawn to, do you think? Yeah, I love that question because it's not something that you sort of don't ever hear about well how you get into this sort of thing. i'd And I trained in law and I was kind
Role of Screen Producers Australia
00:08:07
Speaker
of imagining a commercial role or other things like that. And and the opportunity arose to start to...
00:08:14
Speaker
work in policy for the subscription television industry. And my boss for many years was Deborah Richards, who's over at Netflix now. And that was this very intoxicating mix of both legal understanding skills because you're dealing with legislative programs and policy and regulation, but also the bigger picture macro exercise, the overlay of in understanding the industry a bit more deeply because you're sort of trying to understand how everything connects and interfacing with government. And that kind of combination of government, media and policy, for me, it was quite grounding experience in the practices and the experiences I'd already had in legal terms. But it enabled me to kind of think more more broadly about um how the industry operated. And it wasn't in a micro sense, it was going to be more macro sense. And it was originally that was in a broadcasting environment. But as you say, i kind of translated that into a role at Screen Australia, which kind of gave me the the deep understanding at some level, although got a deeper hu understanding, but a deeper understanding of certainly government agencies and how the industry was intersecting with the agency. And then in this role, it sort of got blown apart and rearranged and reformatted in a whole heap of ways because i think when you start to get closer and closer and closer to the producers, as I am, and I represent them, and you understand the the perilous nature of much of the work that they're doing, the challenges they face, the squeeze they have, the pressures, you start to be able ah to reimagine the policy landscape through those prisms when you've maybe not been as close. So, you know, and and I think I start from being ah a very empathetic person, something I've got to keep a guard on in times because you can sort of take on too much of the angst of the sector sometimes. But you in order to do that job, you're getting close to people and understanding what's going on and then trying to translate that into outcomes that can affect those basic problems that people are having is really rewarding and I couldn't have done that probably the journey into this role it's quite perfect because it kind of gave me layers of understanding in different ways and then as I say that the sort of reformatted all of that once I got close to the challenges because most producers and people in the industry don't want to talk they might talk quietly to each other about the challenges they're having but they can't often it's a game of confidence setting isn't it and you don't end up usually explaining all the the bad things that are going on or the challenges that what because that doesn't take you forward and you know we're in incredibly optimistic sector so it presents in one way but then you're trying to understand the realities for people in other ways and figure out how you can be a value or a vessel for their collective concerns
00:11:08
Speaker
And so, you know, as you said, you're kind of a ah voice for um producers in the Australian industry, but, um you know, for people that aren't familiar with what ah Screen Produces Australia is, SPA, can you explain what their role is within the local industry?
00:11:27
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. um It was really interesting because there's a lady who's a very well-known or legendary producer, Sue Millican, who came into the office recently and, you know, we try to put a lot of posts. Ladies in Black producer?
00:11:39
Speaker
Yes, she did Ladies in Black. It's a film and has been around for a long time and has set up, helped to set up things and she was the chair of the AFC before it became Screen Australia. She helped set up the institution. So it was a nice opportunity to reflect. And SPAR's, I think, this year turning 70 technically. think we'll wait a couple more years to do a 75th and make more of that. But the organisation was set up trying to help the people that are employing people.
00:12:05
Speaker
contracting with people which are the producers as ah as a foundational element of something a producer does and amongst many other things to help them to coordinate and come up with industry frameworks with unions or guilds. and i I step back for a minute I always go my role is to try to create as much certainty as I can for people in a very uncertain space. There's a you know this a startup industry where project by project You dream of a second series, a long-running show, imagine that. But generally speaking, everyone's kind of short-term. But that sets up the problem of how do you come up with a speed of contracting? How do you end up with certainty about what rates might be or the benefits or rights residuals or other payments that need to be made across the sector? so That was the the basis for why SPA was built um originally.
00:12:54
Speaker
And from that, it spun off very quickly, I think, into how to present and frame arguments on behalf of the sector and producers, of course, to the governments of various ill. And so policy and all of those pieces were important elements for the organisation. And then we've increasingly built... what I call gluing gluing elements that help the sector to unite together to do business, to sort of learn about things that can lead into conferences and masterclasses and programs for developing people and all of those things. and And then we're passionate about building out Australian content as part of our DNA as an organisation. We have in membership terms about 800 or so businesses, some of which are associates, some of which are producer members because they've got credits in the industry already. But there's also service and facilities members, studios and others. But that collectively is trying to, i think, support
00:13:55
Speaker
Australian work as a primary thing. It can do many things, but there's a primary reason. There's Australian work, which you hold intellectual property in to help build out you know a business, but also sell and tell a story of the nation to a people.
00:14:11
Speaker
domestically and internationally. So there's common threads within the sector. We're constantly trying to think about the the whole sector and the way it's healthy or otherwise. And some of the the job, and we've got incredible team that do this work, but they're negotiating and you can't have a situation where you try to balance out um if things get a bit topsy-turvy, there's only finite money for things. And so everyone looking at the sector is going, well, if we pay everyone, more people something over here, then what are we going to do without over here? You know, it's bit like a ah family budget. You know, how do we how do we get this thing to sort of work? Yeah. It's a screen production at times. So you've got to balance out, in any form sometimes the baseline of of how much you import resources you have and what you're trying to do and that gets into the the granularity of budgeting but I think the producer is tasked with how do you amalgamate all the resourcing in the sector and all the creative talent and elements together to get the outcome so they end up being the ones that have got to look at the balance of all this every day or else you don't end up with a result and I think it's hard to if people haven't produced you know there's always that question what does a producer do how does it and they you know there's lots of ways to look at it and we have information on our website but they kind of end up being a bit of a managing director of the production and Yes, they can have many good steering pieces and ideas, but you're trying to bring together all this talent. And i remember one producer who don't know, but you might not want me to, but she's just always talked about herself as an umbrella, shielding and protecting all of these pieces that have got to be done from any of the elements that might...
00:15:48
Speaker
either you know cause damage or distract them and sort of keeping them moving forward into ah a pattern and you only get to do that if you are trusted both by the people under the umbrella and also the people that externally that are giving you money just to get the outcome done and delivered or else you know they're going to go with somebody else with a different umbrella look at that analogy Yeah, yeah, no, that's interesting.
Significance of the Screen Forever Conference
00:16:10
Speaker
And um you mentioned earlier about there being a conference, um which I'm assuming is Screen Forever. i say that is um for most people listening to this, depending when you're listening, there is the conference is happening in 2026 in April. so can you tell me what is Screen Forever?
00:16:33
Speaker
How long has it been running? It is the meeting of all the tribes and it's done through the prism of producing, but it isn't for necessarily just producers. It's there for all the parts of the sector to come together. And we we do get a lot of people from, yes, from government, yes, from finance, yes, from commissioners, from sales agents and all the pieces, but yes, a lot of creatives. And we have programs designed or highlighting working with writers or actors or directors or other people as part of this. And I do feel like something that for a lot of people who work in isolation across the sector, having a meaningful drop in and it's a three day drop that kind of creates the bubble of connection and allows you to sort of recalibrate what's happened year to year. and create and build on meaningful exchanges with people in a long form. It is the best that I've, yes, I'm vested, but it's the best thing I've seen that happens in our industry. And that's not to take away from many of the other great things that go on, but one of the things that we do is try to wrap everyone up in a bit of a cocoon so that, you know, you're fed and watered in the one environment. you you You end up being able to rub shoulders and it's about a thousand people in that environment
00:17:51
Speaker
as a maximum, but there's many parts of it that are a lot more intimate and you end up with exchanges that you didn't know you were going to have because that's the person in the coffee queue or the thing that you didn't know. And and it starts to harness and build all these spiderweb tentacles of relationships that are across the sector that you absolutely need to have to be in any way working in this industry. You have to have a million contacts that you kind of keep as spinning plates in connection terms. Mm-hmm.
00:18:18
Speaker
And you can generally keep in touch with people in different ways, of course, a lot way, but there's nothing like face-to-face opportunities where you deepen those connections. And I mean, we do as ah as an organization do a number of online courses and business producing and masterclasses. And we do also an event called Generate, which is all about sort of new ideas It's a day long exercise, and but all these things are open to everyone in that there's benefits for members that are part of the industry. And we, but we recognize that membership isn't for everyone, and but we want to make sure that there's opportunities for people to engage and encourage them to do so, you know, and it's, um it's good. There's lots of pathways for people that haven't been before.
00:18:59
Speaker
um to either be online. I think we've posted some stuff about, you know, tips and tricks, which you can get into a little bit more, um but also events that happen at the head of the conference to guide people through it. And there's ways to, scary, a lot of these things, like if you haven't done that and you can get uptight about introducing yourself to a whole group of people, but we try to make that as gentle and generous as we can. and it is a like you said, it's the kind of forum where people are almost like expecting people to ah introduce themselves and say hi and make those connections and things like that. But so I was wondering, is it designed for people at a specific career level? And on the back of that, you know, are there any opportunities for emerging producers or like you said, creatives going?
00:19:50
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i look, ah absolutely. mean, the panels we always try to pitch up in the sense that you want to have a deeper and detailed conversation, but yeah I think people can catch up with where things are at and and so I wouldn't be intimidated by where the conversation's at. And,
00:20:08
Speaker
we do a program called Ones to Watch, which is a mentoring process between people that are very well established in the membership and people who are newish but maybe have early credit and are looking to um expand the horizon line. And one of the things we set up was the core piece of that was surely are going to be the mentoring piece and that's obviously critical and appreciated and there's deep relationships that get formed through that mentoring piece. But the thing I wasn't quite expecting was the the connections of the Like actually within the ones group. the group. Yeah, I've seen people talk about this. Yeah. yeah that They have formed and do form these really deep layers of knowledge sharing. And and i I guess I'm using that as a chance to say that Screen Forever is sort of a broader, more expansive piece of that in which people are basically needing to, you need to rely on a lot of people to answer problems all the time in this industry. Mm-hmm. need a lot of advice and you you sort of more the full you if you try to do it all on your own because I think it ends up in tears. So you want to try to find the people you really trust and then how do you do that and how do you establish relationships in that way? And that's ah's at any stage of one's career but certainly at the start of your career when you're maybe a little bit
00:21:20
Speaker
green in terms of what it all is and how it is and so finding connections and relationships like where do you go it's no sort of dating app well it's it's a bit old-fashioned you've got to get together with people and form physical connections in different ways at drinks or in sitting next to someone at a seminar or that we're running or whatever it is and that ends up being I think this deeper support piece that helps people to travel and you never know it's not more than support it's that there's a job sitting next to you and you didn't realise it but you might not realise it for five years because that connection ends up going, oh, actually you could do that. Or the the person that might have started as an assistant on something and was there because the production company, they end up being their own production company three years' time and get given a lot of money and then, you know, you're trying to co-produce something and it just, you never know, it's my spiderweb analogy, there's never a
00:22:15
Speaker
This industry is classic for not having a linear pathway to outcomes. It's many, many threads that lead to different things. Anyway, I go back to the conference as being the best thing I've seen is a container for people to really learn and know each other well and in many ways the maximising that value at an early to emerging or middle stage of career however we want to define that in years or experience or types of projects can be the most rewarding. So, you know, and there's many programs that states also have to encourage and develop people to come to the conference if they um stretch for cash, as we all are in different forms. but And so you're saying to check out the um state and territory agencies to see if there's any funding support?
00:23:00
Speaker
There's usually some funding support or you can contact people about it. And look, at the end of the day, For the most part, people are thinking about that you've got to self-invest in your career in different ways. So don't let it be an obstacle if that isn't available for whatever you want to do. But a lot of people think that this is a valuable moment and it's curated in a very, you know, shout out to the team and Kristen's at the moment doing the programming. Kristen Hodges. Kristen Hodges, who's taken over from Jess. Jaco, who's went across to South Australia. You know, we've had very strong programming and people really, really love that. And then they love the market connections because they end up kind of learning through roundtables or one-on-ones how things are actually working. make these deep connections but then you know we're on the gold coast it's not hard to be up there and um there's sunshine and i think the people love the size of it when they come in because the lot of people are aspirational and they go oh i want to go to can yeah
00:23:59
Speaker
and It's great, but it's so huge and so big and so out of control that there's a certain time where that really works in your career and you can be lucky in different ways. But this is a good container where it's got a large amount of people, but it's not crazy. so you know Yeah. but Yeah, definitely. Um, I'll actually share that my first note taking job was through a conversation that I had at Screen Forever, just running into a producer that I hadn't spoken to in a number of years. And then we were just chatting and that kind of led to a follow up, which then led to my first note taking job. So like those kind of connections can happen there. Um, so you mentioned some tips and tricks that yeah are on the website. But, you know, for people listening, what are your key pieces of advice, maybe like three key pieces of advice yeah for anyone preparing to go to Scream Forever?
00:24:58
Speaker
So homework is really critical. And yes, we have probably all of this summarised. So one of the homework pieces will be go to our YouTube channel. I think there's already been a session that the team did to kind of go through this. But knowing who and what people are, it sounds basic. No one's going to expect you to know everything, but some core pieces of information of who people are and what they're doing is not a bad thing to do. And to that, you know, I give you absolute credit. as well as people that are engaging with the sector and our independent media, you know, that is a vehicle where people should be really following the dotted lines in the sector because it ends up being how you know who people are. So anyway, homework, homework, bit of homework and preparing who you want to be engaging with and trying to line up some areas ahead of time is good thing to do.
00:25:46
Speaker
You also don't want to overcook yourself. So that's the second bit of advice is to give some breathing space to both digesting and integrating information you're getting to having capacity to bump into the people, go for with a quick coffee on the side of the thing, stop and learn about the thing that you didn't realise. So i always think when I go to these environments, having a cover anchor pieces that you definitely want to do in the program, couple of key meetings you need to do, but balancing that, enabling you to have some also some time to be able to operate just as a human being. You've got to survive a three-day pretty intense experience. So I kind of go, okay, prepare, don't overcook yourself. The third thing i always think is important is to have what you who you are and what you're doing
00:26:32
Speaker
ah down into a fine art it's that elevator pitch that people talk about a lot and there's often a little hook in a design piece to get someone interested that you might not have known about who you are and and where you're from and and what you're interested in and maybe one of your ideas because it's like a ah little amuse-bouche into a relationship that if you've got it down pat and you know what you're doing you know you know you got yourself organized and you've got a I don't think flyers are, I mean, maybe people shoot me down by saying, yeah, flyers work, but sometimes just cards or having a quick opportunity on your phone to scan someone's LinkedIn and do that quickly, it just anchors the hook of something in a quick follow-up and follow-up and make sure you follow up and follow up and follow up and all those pieces. so But you've got to have given them the muse bush of who you are and what's the exciting piece that you've got i' ready to engage around. And then in the follow-up, you're like, I'm the person who did X, Y, Z. Exactly. Yes. Yeah, and you follow up immediately and I still do it. and I put my head off to the people who have got a little black book of all these contacts, but I know someone who is a political operative more than an industry operative, but he has everyone's birthday that he knows that he always sends them little note to wish them a happy birthday and just personally and da, da, da, da. So, you know, keeping these threads and connection with people and following up and and not letting relationships sort of wither is kind of ah a key piece because there's no point in spending the energy and going and and meeting a lot of people and then just letting it fade off.
00:28:03
Speaker
You've got to work at it. Yeah, definitely. Okay, well, so everyone go check out for the the the further tips and tricks. I'll put a link in the show notes to that. um But I also just wanted to talk to you about kind of, like you said, you have kind of this broad view of the industry. And so just some like general industry questions about state of the industry. So, you know, 2025, it was reported, a lot of people felt it that it was a difficult year for many in the industry. I'm wondering, do you feel like there has been a shift for 2026? Do you feel like production has picked back up? Like, how do you feel the the state of the industry is right now after that tough
Industry Changes and Positive Shifts in 2026
00:28:46
Speaker
year?
00:28:46
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question. And I feel like there's a more positive arc in 26 than in 25. The streaming regulation, which had been on the agenda and we'd been arguing and you know advocating for for many years, was landed at the end of the year. and Congrats. Thank you. Yeah, it's lot of work. But it was important as a bedrock piece where we go, well, where's the shifting center of gravity for the industry around resources and maybe viewership? And it look, it's not that it's only there, it's many places, but it had started to shift online into that world. We're a function of uncertainty in a size and scale piece in Australia because of English language, but also you know who we are and what we do, that if there's no grounded piece in that, there was ah a feeling and a strong sense from many businesses that this was a critical element to get right. So just jumping in here to clarify, Matt is talking here about the local content quotas for streaming services. We mentioned it at the top of the episode, but in case you missed it, they were passed in parliament last year and they mean that streaming services at a certain level have to invest at least 10% of their total program expenditure for Australia 7.5% of revenue on local programming. That's it in a nutshell. There's obviously more detail around it, of course, course and it's worth looking up if you haven't already.
00:30:11
Speaker
Back to Matt. Yeah. I mean, ah the framework was important, not just for production companies, but certainly for the, you know, certainty created for those large streaming businesses to know how develop and deliver and that kind of settles everyone into then i think more consistent regular exchanges and working relationships so I feel like when we started to learn that there was certainly reports from not from everyone but that oh we finally we've actually started to have meetings again oh this was frozen and now it's starting to move again and you know all of that starting to free up in terms of how much and the quantity of work from it we get to see what that full pattern looks like and that'll become important for us to assess and evaluate and work out what the next, if any steps need to happen around this. But that was a key piece.
00:30:57
Speaker
More money for the ABC was part of that package. The ABC intersects with so many parts of the industry and and many, many, many others. So the ABC...
00:31:08
Speaker
there's a critical bit of commissioning and infrastructure for our sector and opportunities for people to work and deliver great work you know work to and of course then communicate with the audience. Having that well resourced to deliver screen work is Really, really critical. And that was the the double punch that we managed to deliver out of this, you know, what was more than 10 years of work. that We did get some money. Now, was it enough? No. Was there stuff for SBS? No. Was there stuff for Screen Australia? No. There's many pieces that are still to be activated. But that ended up, I think, giving pep in the step to some people, many, not everyone, i think if you're still ah a children's producer you're you really only have one commissioner in town for factual getting away certain projects is really difficult and the commissioning from some of the broadcasters has been a little bit challenging for reality and light entertainment there's less resources sometimes for that so you know different people are experiencing different things but i'd say as arc i feel like we're doing better now You know, I could get that wrong and I'll get 100 hate telling me I've got this all back to front. But we were coming off a very challenging base and what is working and what we're kind of navigating is the that we're certainly a great landing pad for American productions. I just think we want to translate that into...
00:32:32
Speaker
many things as well and not just be an end point for all of that work and training and skill and money. It's got to move into other pockets of the sector and do ideally work with many more people. So on the table, I should say that there's a piece of reform around offsets, which was promised but not delivered. There's ah a piece on co-productions and working more internationally for Australian businesses, which we can, you know, skimming over. But the the major thing that I think everyone is very mindful of if you're running a production business is how close, even if there is now more work going or freed up capacity for some work,
00:33:09
Speaker
the capacity each business has got to remain viable as feels like it's dropped significantly because margins have been tightened and money you know extracted from some of the contracting processes and the long tail benefit of taking a cut early on but maybe having some opportunities later for the return on investment if you sort of dwindling a lot if you can't hold rights in works and you're starting to see that fraying more so i go So just, just as context for people listening. So you're saying if you're a producer and you're saying, okay, well, I'm not going to pay myself, um, on this, but what I'll do is I'll, I'll get a percentage down the line when the show is earning um project is, is earning revenue in a different way. I'll get some benefit down the line, but yeah. Yeah.
00:33:58
Speaker
Cause that's, that's the challenge with producing is that it's a business decision But sometimes the decision is taken out of your hands given that maybe there's only one place for your project. Yeah, and you're like, i just want to make the thing. Yeah, that's right. And you have a job under, you know, various legal frameworks to make sure everyone is paid, but you may not be able to pay yourself in that process. And I think that's very hard for people to understand that the producer is often the first to take the haircut.
00:34:27
Speaker
But if you do that, you've got to have some value that otherwise what's the point of it but also how do you sustain development for the business how do you keep people's to keep the lights on if you're employing people you've got to have some benefits in the in the process down the line and what we're seeing is that the rights that producers held in works to compensate for maybe those haircuts are starting to go so there's something's got to give in that you either need to say well We need to be maintaining that early or upfront payment so that people can eat. Or if you're going to trade that away, you've got to give them meaningful rights in the works. Otherwise, there's nothing that they will be able to get out of this project. That's the trade-off, I think, in business. And you've got to take a risk sometimes. But you don't often have a many avenues for leverage if you're owner. small to medium enterprise against the world's biggest um businesses. that That is the reality.
Challenges in Production Business
00:35:22
Speaker
So for people that don't know that we're in a pretty unregulated environment compared to many territories like many countries in Europe and certainly the UK, which has had framework arrangements to kind of manage this. And we rely entirely on Screen Australia only when it puts inequity investments into projects to kind of manage how everything fits together. Otherwise, it's a little bit cowboy. And I think that
00:35:48
Speaker
When we talk about the benefit, what, 25 was late, 26, I think there's an upswing in terms of where people are feeling in sentiment. But the ah behind, always like to peel open and go, okay, how well is that car running, even if it's moving forward? Are all the pieces actually functional and are we setting ourselves up with the problems that all these businesses going to...
00:36:09
Speaker
not be able to keep going or fall over because of some of these structural issues that have never been addressed. And we don't often talk about this. And, um you know, talking about some of the businesses, I also thought it was worth mentioning, you know, it was kind of a blow for the industry in terms of Matchbox um closing, which was obviously different, not related to what you were just talking about, but... um Yeah, like, ah do you still feel like in terms of state of the industry kind of question, some of those challenges and opportunities at present going forward, you know, having had that kind of big blow at the beginning of the year?
00:36:47
Speaker
Yeah, and, you know, it's good opportunity to reflect on what an incredible innings business like that did and for the people that are there. And Tony has productions as well as part of that, yeah. Yeah, I mean the principals in that business and all the people that kind of were grounded, just so many careers that have been built through that business. But it speaks to the value of how and why you need – formed businesses that can host and amalgamate people and give them opportunities and so because I think there's sometimes a sense that different parts the sector and sometimes you know it's led by different people in different ways they sort of seem to throw rocks at producers because they're the ones maybe with distributing resources and paying people but the the structure of industry is so fundamental to get right you have to have
00:37:36
Speaker
grounded places like that to build out anything. So yes, that it is a blow when a cornerstone sort of business that's done so well for so many years doesn't continue. And look, it's not for me to comment on all the elements on why that was and what happened with it exactly. But I do use the opportunity to talk about that even the most you know biggest of businesses that look the most resilient are actually not as resilient as we think.
00:38:04
Speaker
have got to be bit mindful that we're in the business of show and we sort of save things are great but underneath the surface we've got to keep working on what the problems are structurally in the sector and there's many that are going um need to be looked at for the business part and it's interesting because I think people are more and more inclined to turn their mind to that the work that Screen Australia released there's some work that AFTRS is doing and there's other institutional pieces that are trying to focus in a bit more deeply about what's undercover and ah I do point to the government itself being interested because the federal government that is because you know it's not every government that's been particularly interested in having arts and cultural policies we've got one that's doing the second iteration of its cultural policy at the moment so sort of go well that that leads us to the doors opened for conversation and times it's not so you know I that's a another thing to for people to be engaged in some way but The reason we're getting into the weeds on some of this is the industry presents itself in a medium that's easily digestible and people believe they understand it if they're a punter. And that's its great success and that we present it as a very glamorous sector. It's a lot of hard work behind the scenes and it's a lot of complexity actually in how these things get done that
00:39:19
Speaker
That's why saying something like Screen Forever or other vehicles of independent media, other you know, whatever we're doing, we need to keep learning about what's going on in this industry or else we easily get left behind.
00:39:32
Speaker
yeah you know, talking about that learning point, um yeah in terms of advice ah for any producers listening, what would be a piece of advice that you would give them?
00:39:43
Speaker
It depends really it depends on what stage they're and part of their career they're in. and Could we break it down to like emerging advice, and career advice and experience producer advice? I'm making you give a three in one. Yeah, yeah. the first bit of advice I'd say is that we are always better together. The organisation's grown significantly with many members. but You know, i always look to that and go, you can't take that granted. We need producers to think of themselves as creating alliances with each other, even if they're in an odd sense, they're all competing in some people's minds against each other. But in practice, they're working collaboratively in many ways. And the best and brightest and that I see are just totally working closely with each other. The other piece of advice is that you're never too established to not know the answers to things and to ask for help and to continue to be curious about things that going on. Because I think there's a tendency sometimes to I've been through that, I've been through that, but then actually because things change so much that you
00:40:52
Speaker
you sometimes need to re-educate yourself. So know be open to the idea that you can happily go back to effectively the high school and sit with maybe the newbies and like, oh, right, well, this whole thing about AI or this whole world about, you know, vertical dramas, you know, learning about these things in in ways that are just shameless is good. And we try to be a a repository of of information that people are very generous with us giving us information insights and information that then we can kind of put into the big stewing pot and then recirculate out to people to go okay well actually we're very discreet and hold information well but we're able to kind of guide people based on the collective wisdom so i'd kind of keep coming to us with information because think like a lot of organizations we are surveying people a lot we need to know what's happening a lot but And we're talking to people all a lot, but that pool of resourcing is very valuable. and We all gain from learning about things, whether it's directly from each other or in aggregating it and then expanding it. And certainly from us being able to talk to government with all of that collective knowledge and understanding has been very valuable in getting outcomes. So that's another bit of advice. It's more policy. ah You're probably hoping I'd have some sort of more practical thing about getting to bed early and i don't know.
00:42:13
Speaker
waking up in the dawn and stretching properly. No, I quite liked all the policy advice. It was good. Yeah, yeah. Well, it brings us to our final segment, which is called Pay It Forward, because ah i will be asking you a question from a previous guest. And then if you could come up with a question to ask the next guest. So previous guest was Lee Namo from Grouse House, also formerly Screen Australia. So Lee asked, I would like to know what's the first story that you remember as having an emotional impact on you? You know, let's go all the way back to your childhood or talk about what's that story that you go, well, that really stuck around in my head as a it had a big emotional impact.
00:42:58
Speaker
I'm really, I'm so glad that the one that comes to me immediately, and it's true, it's not like i made this up, it's an Australian story and it's Dot and the Kangaroo, i am which I don't know if people know this, but maybe they'll have to Google it, but it was an animation with bits of life in it and I think it was done by the business that was originally flying barks business a long time ago, it was Yon Gross or something like that. It was, yeah yeah. And I think they did Blinky Bill as well, didn't they? Yeah, yeah. So they had this asset it was very grounded in the symbols and imagery i was experiencing as a child. It was bush and it was this sort of mythicism potentially of kangaroos and what they mean, and but it was also the bond between a child and a kangaroo. And it also had actually a reasonably interesting Indigenous experience intersection as well which I was i remember being so you know almost startled by and engaged with and fascinated into and was a great curiosity so that's probably the thing that i most immediately get impacted by and I've said this before as well that Storm Boy was another one that played out for me not that long after because it was in a drive-in Launceston and watching that play out on a big screen because I think all my cinema experiences were in drive-ins when I was a child. This is how old I am but those two those two examples really had impacts for me.
00:44:23
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, amazing. I feel like we've come full circle because you were talking about your, you know, growing up regional and and this is where we're ending as well. um But we'll leave it there. That was all my questions. But um thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. i really appreciate You're very welcome. Now do I get to ask my questions? um Of me? um For another episode. Yeah, yeah.
00:44:48
Speaker
That was Matthew Deaner and a big thanks to him for joining me on the podcast. This episode was produced and edited by myself with logo designed by Shara Parsons and music by Seb Sebotaj-Gabrilović. If you enjoyed listening, please hit that subscribe button and leave us a review. See you in a fortnight.