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Yolanda Ramke's writing process and advice for emerging creatives
52 Plays10 days ago
Award-winning screenwriter and director Yolanda Ramke joins this 'mini-break' episode of Breaking Screen - a shorter episode than usual - to talk about her methodical approach to writing Australian television and advice for writers and directors trying to get a foot in the industry.
Yolanda first found success when she wrote, and co-directed the 2013 viral short film Cargo with frequent collaborator Ben Howling. Yolanda and Ben then expanded Cargo into their feature film debut of the same name, which was produced by Causeway Films, starred Martin Freeman, and was the first Australian Netflix Original narrative feature film. The pair also co-directed two episodes of the Netflix series The Haunting Of Bly Manor, created by Mike Flanagan. And in recent years Yolanda was creator, executive producer, a writer and co-director on the ABC series Troppo (which also had a second season in 2024) and she has slate of feature film and TV projects in development.
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Transcript
Introduction & Episode Context
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to Breaking Screen, a podcast about the Australian screen industry and the creative people within it. I'm your host, Karis Buzaka, and I'm recording this podcast from the lands of the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation, where I'm very grateful to be a visitor and be able to work on these lands.
00:00:19
Speaker
Always was, always will be. Today's episode is a bit of a different one. It's much shorter, ah mini break, if you will. It's because I ran into a bit of a dilemma.
Personal Impact on Podcast Planning
00:00:34
Speaker
My dad is extremely sick. He has been for some time, but particularly now. So I have been spending all my spare time at the hospital instead of planning and editing podcasts.
00:00:47
Speaker
I didn't know what to do for this episode until I remembered that I had this audio from an old chat with screenwriter and director Yolanda Ramke.
Guest Introduction: Yolanda Ramke
00:00:57
Speaker
It's from a couple of years ago and I knew the audio wouldn't be great, but I remembered that what she said about her writing process and advice for writers was really great.
00:01:09
Speaker
So I reached out to Yolanda, who very generously gave me the green light to use this clip. A bit of context, Yolanda is an award-winning screenwriter and director who first found success when she wrote and co-directed the 2013 viral short film Cargo with frequent collaborator Ben Howling.
00:01:27
Speaker
Yolanda and Ben then expanded Cargo into their feature film Debut, which was produced by Causeway Films, starred Martin Freeman, and was the first Australian Netflix original narrative feature film.
00:01:39
Speaker
The pair also co-directed two episodes of the Netflix series, The Haunting of Bly Manor, created by Mike Flanagan. And in recent years, Yolanda was creator, executive producer, a writer and co-director on the ABC series Tropo, which also had a second season in 2024.
00:01:56
Speaker
And she has a slate of feature film and TV projects in development too.
Film to TV Transition Challenges
00:02:01
Speaker
We'll have a proper episode with Yolanda on breaking screen in the future, but for now, here's Yolanda talking about working in Australian television after shooting feature film Cargo in South Australia and co-directing two episodes of The Haunting of Bly Manor in Vancouver.
00:02:19
Speaker
With Haunting as well, because we were just coming in as directors, it was kind of like there was a lot of the making of the sausage that we weren't kind of privy to and so, you know, probably... We had kind of a different experience with that in some ways. But with, yeah, with Tropper, I mean, definitely it's one of those funny things because I think, you know, definitely coming off the back of cargo, Ben and I both talked about, oh, man, like it's so challenging to.
00:02:43
Speaker
tell a story with depth and you know really get to explore the psychology of characters when you've only got 120 minutes or less to do it and so and because we were both watching you know like all of us are you know just devouring episodic tv shows because we just love that medium so much we were like oh my god well let's just like but forget film for now like episodic is where we want to go because then we're going to have six, eight hours to tell a story and we can go really deep and it's going to be so exciting. And then, you know, I'm i'm now in that like neck deep in that process of going, oh, my God, now I have to have eight hours of story to film. It has actually given me so much, like I thought I respected TV writing before, but it's just like a whole new level now seeing how,
00:03:30
Speaker
but just how intense that process is and how much replotting, reworking, rethinking, reshaping, it just happens. And not just on one piece either, but like on eight different sections.
00:03:46
Speaker
And that challenge of holding or trying to hold eight hours worth of storytelling in your head at once so that you know that any piece that you pull from one place, what the domino effect is going to be on later episodes and just trying to kind of track that.
00:04:03
Speaker
But, yeah, like I think the pace is the is the challenge. I think, you know, like truthfully, like I think the development time in Australian TV from what I've sort of experienced so far is really challenging. but i don't think would surprise anybody to sort of talk about the fact that like I think Our shows could really benefit and our writers could really benefit from the opportunity to get to spend a little bit longer talking big picture and plotting shows because the turnaround, the sort of conventional turnaround in Australian TV is so fast. Mm-hmm.
00:04:37
Speaker
And so it's a funny thing because I think, you know, in America they get a lot more time to kind of plot and break and look at the big picture and then they get a lot less time to write the actual drafts, whereas we're the other way around. So, you know, I think the the drafting time that we have is really great, but it's also about just sort of creating a little bit more time.
00:04:56
Speaker
early on to get to have those conversations so that maybe there isn't as much of that kind of tinkering that then has to happen down the line. Like it's inevitable, but it's just, yeah, I think it's, but it's hard, you know, like we just, with there's less money.
00:05:11
Speaker
Budgets are so much smaller here. So it's a question of money really in terms being able afford to pay people to do that. And it's just about moving forward, trying to find a way that that becomes a priority because I think no show can succeed unless the,
00:05:26
Speaker
the thing that it's based off is solid and, you know, that's the script. And so it just seems crazy to me that that wouldn't be where the focus goes. Priority, yeah. really Yeah, exactly, exactly.
00:05:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And so what's your, what would be like your writing process, do you
Scriptwriting Techniques
00:05:44
Speaker
think? Are you like a get up in the morning, you write for this number of hours or this many pages or are you a night person? How does it work for you? What's your process?
00:05:54
Speaker
um I... I'm pretty methodical, like I'm a bit of a planner, but I wasn't always. But I think I have found in the last year, i think particularly with Troppo and the pace that we're working at, um a process that I think really works for me, which is...
00:06:13
Speaker
I'm not a morning person so I don't get up super early and I will have like a kind of a I'll take my time getting ready and having breakfast and just kind of waking up. Yeah, easing into the morning and then I'll kind of get going probably around like 10, 10.30, 11 sometimes.
00:06:32
Speaker
And for me what I like to do, like if I'm if i'm working on an episode, so i'm working on a script, like ah a draft of a script, and particularly if it's a rewrite, so the scenes are already in existence, but I know I'm doing a pass.
00:06:47
Speaker
So say I'm doing a pass on a script that I've got a lot of notes for and I'm doing a new draft of. I'll get a wall planner and i I put it up on my wall and I will assign, I'll kind of get a sense of which are the scenes that are will require bigger changes versus which are really like cosmetic small things.
00:07:04
Speaker
But I literally will assign every day i will write or on the first day i will write all of the scenes up on the board and I'll allocate them to each day. and I try to spread that out so that if I know that I've got some really big scenes to tackle, I might only put like three scenes on that day.
00:07:20
Speaker
And then if it's smaller scenes, it might be six or seven scenes. or And I basically, I work back from my deadline date and I spread those out so that I can see basically what scene count I need to hit each day in order for me to hit that deadline.
00:07:36
Speaker
And then I also leave ah like two days at least at the end for editing. So it's for like a final um edit proofread at the end. And that way, what ah what I find really empowering about that and that maybe helps me trick myself into like not feeling overwhelmed is that, you know, sometimes I will get through my scene count for a day faster than I thought.
00:07:58
Speaker
And if that's the case, then I have the choice where either I can if I'm still feeling energized, I can get ahead on the next day and get a head start. So that's not going to be such a hefty day. Or, you know, if I want to take some time for myself just to sort of rest my brain, i can do that knowing that I'm on schedule.
00:08:16
Speaker
And so I don't, I'm not carrying that stress of, I should be working. It's like, no, no, I've, I've done the work that I needed to do today. And I'm going to try and turn off now and go and do something else for myself to kind of take myself away from it.
00:08:30
Speaker
I found that for me has been a really like a much healthier way to do it and a way to just really be able to at any minute track where I'm at in that process. Yeah. So that's my thing. No, that's cool. Yeah, no, I really like it. um Make sure you like working to a deadline. It's great. It means when you said like the other day, I have two days to turn the script around.
00:08:51
Speaker
You can really. ah see this Yeah, yeah, yeah. to do to be able to hit it. Yeah. Oh, great.
Advice for Aspiring Creatives
00:08:57
Speaker
And what would you, um what kind of advice would you have for any writers or directors out there that are wanting to get into it?
00:09:07
Speaker
oh Oh, man, that's always such a hard question to ask in a way because I just feel like everybody's on such a different path and trajectory. But i think um I think it's just,
00:09:23
Speaker
It's really about loving it and and I think you'll know that you do if you are if you are in your free time writing and you are wanting to make stuff with friends and, you know, you are self-motivated. Like I think that's a really important aspect of of getting where you want to be is to sort of be proactive about it. So I would i like I guess...
00:09:46
Speaker
if i If I was looking to move into features, then it would be I'd be making short films with friends and I would be thinking about, you know, the idea of making something that can stand alone but also be ah a proof of concept for, if not like a scene from a feature idea, something that tonally sits in that same space so that you can say, look this is a different story but it will tonally feel like that and look what I've made and, you know, that's how it will work.
00:10:15
Speaker
because I think sometimes people have really not great imaginations to kind of make that connection. So, i mean, i yeah, I think the only, much like my, like our experience on cargo, like the only way to learn is to just do it and to just make, make mistakes and to grow. And so, yeah I would just be making stuff as much as you can with friends. And, you know, if writing is your specialty, it's just really about looking at whether it's features television, it's like looking, it's,
00:10:43
Speaker
depending on how your mind works. But for me, I'm a very, I'm kind of an analytical person. So for me, I find it really helpful to watch episodes of stuff and break them down for myself or to look at scripts for pilots or features and break them down. And again, it's like looking at how the mechanics of a thing work and try and learn how that happens so that it just sort of sits in the back of your head while you then do your own version of that. And you can deviate, but it's just about knowing kind of what works and And just reading, you know, as many books or listening to podcasts, you know, going to talks, watching stuff that sits in the pocket of what you want to make.
00:11:18
Speaker
And I guess if if you're if it's television that you're interested in writing for, then there are note taker courses that are out there that I think are like a really great way to go. It's like a two day course.
00:11:31
Speaker
and you learn how to be like a professional television note taker and as a vantage point in a room to learn how to write for television, like I reckon is's no better place to be than to be the person taking the notes because you are surrounded by writers and you are watching the whole process play out and you just honestly absorb so much just by being in a room.
00:11:51
Speaker
So I'd be looking at opportunities to kind of get in there well. Yeah. Yeah, okay Yeah, because I think you even said like um in like a past interview, so you made like a short film Shelter and it was on that that you realised that you actually wanted to be a director as well because you you were doing like a writing, acting kind of thing. So it's that making something that can also tell you.
00:12:11
Speaker
can clarify yeah things for you in your mind. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, clarify things that that interest you or also that don't, you know. And also actually the other thing I would say is is I did actually find working on other people's stuff for seven years invaluable.
Industry Insights & Episode Conclusion
00:12:26
Speaker
Like if you're going to have to pay the bills one way, why not do it in the industry on a set where you can actually learn and ah and absorb? And also i think working in other departments is also super valuable. If you want to be a director in particular, it's having an understanding of what other departments are dealing with and what their
00:12:48
Speaker
big obstacles are and what you can then avoid when it comes time to writing or making your project is sort of you can have those considerations in your head as well yeah totally
00:13:01
Speaker
That was writer-director Yolanda Ramke. Thanks so much to Yolanda for helping me out with this episode, and I'm looking forward to having her on the podcast properly in the future. This episode was produced and edited by myself with logo design by Shara Parsons and music by Seb Sabotaj-Gavrilovic.
00:13:18
Speaker
If you enjoyed listening, please hit that subscribe button and leave us a review. See you in a fortnight.