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Making a vertical series with the producers of Ceebs
42 Plays6 days ago
We’re joined on Breaking Screen by Amie Batalibasi and Nikki Tran, the producers of 18 x 1 minute series Ceebs, which was written by and stars Betiel Beyin & Leigh Lule. Throughout the podcast, Amie and Nikki share their insights on developing and creating an online series, what vertical storytelling actually is, learnings from their marketing and release strategy, unexpected hurdles with the algorithm, and advice for anyone wanting to make a series for TikTok or Instagram.
In Ceebs, best friends Zion and Ruby run for Youth President to save their youth centre from imminent closure while struggling to keep their friendship from being hit in the crossfire. The series is many things: a love letter to the youth centres that provide a place of belonging to young people, a platonic rom-com about two best friends, a rare representation of Afro-Australian joy and an absurdist political satire. It launched on TikTok and Instagram on September and you can watch every episode online now.
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Transcript
Introduction to Breaking Screen Podcast
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to Breaking Screen, a podcast about the Australian screen industry and the creative people within it. I'm your host, Karis Buzaka, and I'm recording this podcast from the lands of the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation, where I'm very grateful to be a visitor and be able to work on these lands.
00:00:19
Speaker
Always was, always will be.
Meet the Guests: Amy Batalabasi and Nikki Tran
00:00:22
Speaker
Today's episode will feature Amy Batalabasi and Nikki Tran, the producers of vertical TikTok and Instagram series Siebs. But before we get to that chat, here's some news from the Australian screen industry.
Australian Screen Industry Highlights
00:00:34
Speaker
South Australia's flagship film development initiative, Film Lab New Voices, which was discussed by the Lesbian Space Princess team on the last episode of this podcast, has announced its third feature film, The Debt, a First Nations-led horror from South Australian creatives, which will premiere at the 2026 Adelaide Film Festival.
00:00:55
Speaker
Staying in horror filmmaking land, New Zealand horror comedy The Weed Eaters, produced by Causeway Films and directed by Callum Devlin, has taken home the Best Feature Film Award at the 2025 South by Southwest Sydney Screen Festival Awards.
00:01:10
Speaker
The Audience Award went to found footage horror film Welcome Back to My Channel by Australian writer-director Jordan Daly, and Lake Bogar, created by Australians Ben Bryan and Nick Capper, was awarded Best Episodic.
00:01:23
Speaker
And that's your news wrap up, but remember to head over to any of the Australian trade publications for more.
The Making of 'Siebs': A Platonic Rom-Com
00:01:29
Speaker
Now to the chat with today's guests. We're joined on breaking screen by Amy Batalabasi and Nikki Tran, the producers of 18 by one minute series Siebes, which was written by and stars Betty Albain and Leigh Luley.
00:01:43
Speaker
The series is many things. A love letter to the youth centres that provide a place of belonging to young people, a platonic rom-com about two neurotic best friends, a rare representation of Afro-Australian joy, and an absurdist political satire.
00:01:59
Speaker
It launched on TikTok and Instagram in September, and you can watch every episode online now. Throughout the podcast, Amy and Nikki share their insights on developing and creating an online series, what vertical storytelling actually is, learnings from their marketing and release strategy, unexpected hurdles with the algorithm, and advice for anyone wanting to make a series for TikTok or Instagram.
00:02:24
Speaker
Here's that chat.
00:02:28
Speaker
A nice easy one to start with. Could you tell me your name and your role in the industry? All right. um My name is Nikki Tran. I am a writer, producer, and I work in development in the TV industry as well.
Amy and Nikki's Career Inspirations
00:02:46
Speaker
Fantastic. you so My name is Amy Badalabasi, and I am a writer, director, producer, and founder of Colourbox Studio, which is ah creative platform to showcase artists.
00:02:59
Speaker
Fantastic. um And so one of the things we talk about on this podcast is inciting incidents. You know, in screenwriting, we talk about inciting incidents all the time. But what would be the inciting incidents for each of your career? So Amy, you first.
00:03:17
Speaker
This is such a good question. and i I did a little research and listened to a few other people. And I don't know, I struggled with it. It's so hard when something is is quite a slow evolution.
00:03:29
Speaker
but what I would say is that I got a camera, got given a camera when I was 10 years old. And I didn't know that You know, filmmaking was a career until kind of in my 20s. So it took me a while to find this career path, but I always had the passion kind of since, yeah, age 10 really. Wow.
00:03:50
Speaker
And yourself, Nikki?
Developing 'Siebs': Community and Vertical Storytelling
00:03:52
Speaker
um For me, I actually tell the story a lot. It's a bit weird now that it's 2025 and all that's happened, but it was Harry Potter um when I was little. like When the movie came out, i was I think I was the same age as Harry Potter.
00:04:10
Speaker
And I was also born on Halloween as well. So I always thought myself as a bit of a witch and had supernatural powers. But what was the inciting incident, I guess, is When I was watching the behind-the-scenes DVD featurettes and the making of of Harry Potter and I just saw like Daniel Radcliffe and all the little actors walking around set and you it was so magical and cool that I didn't know what I was going to do set but I was very interested and enchanted and wanted to be a part of it and I guess the storytelling journey started since then.
00:04:56
Speaker
Yeah, amazing. um And also just to give you a bit of a chance to like name drop um some of the things that you've you worked on today. um So Nikki, could you kind of reel off a ah few of the, you know, projects that you're proud of being a part of to today?
00:05:12
Speaker
Yeah, um I've done a lot of online series. One of the first ones I created was called Fresh. It was a web series set at in a fresh food market. was inspired by me growing up in Footscray and going to the market a lot with my grandma and the community there, which Amy also directed an episode of.
00:05:38
Speaker
Oh, cool. That was the first project I did out of uni. um And since then I've also made Girl Interpreted with Grace Fung and now Seeps.
00:05:49
Speaker
Great. And then Amy, yourself? ah Some of the projects I've been involved with and I'm proud of, ah oh Let's see.
00:06:01
Speaker
I feel so old and black over the last ah decade decade or so. ah I think the first one that comes to mind is Blackbird, which is a short film inspired by the history of Australian sugar slaves.
00:06:17
Speaker
I made that as part of my master's course and that was 10 years ago and it's it's still available now on SBS On Demand and that's really exciting that, yeah, just learning about,
00:06:30
Speaker
I guess the longevity and significance of something that is 13 minutes and still kind of being talked about and shared today. Yeah, a number of short films. I directed some TV, Mustangs FC, which is really fun.
00:06:46
Speaker
And i directed a few eps of Thalu, which is an amazing kid's TV show set up in the Pilbara. And I guess the other part of my practice is community arts.
00:06:58
Speaker
And so I've done a lot of collaborative projects with community where participants join and learn about filmmaking and then write and direct their own films. so I've done a number of projects, Pacific Stories, One Talk Story, Australian South Sea Islander
Challenges with TikTok's Algorithm
00:07:15
Speaker
Stories.
00:07:16
Speaker
They all have story at the end of the title of the project. I've had the opportunity to work overseas and regionally and that part of my practice is...
00:07:27
Speaker
I love it. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. And so brings us to SEEBS. So for any other uncool millennials listening or, you know, other demos, SEEBS means can't be bothered.
00:07:42
Speaker
But can you both tell me a little bit about SEEBS? What is SEEBS itself, the series? Yeah. What is seams? it Do you to go for it? Nikki, go for it.
00:07:58
Speaker
and ifki go for it The Seabes is a comedy TikTok series kind of in the vein of loved community and Broad City. um It's about two best friends who are these young Afro-Australian women in their community youth centre and their youth president, a magpie, passes away.
00:08:24
Speaker
r rp Gary. Yep, Gary the Magpie, played by a puppet. And these two best friends kind of want to save their centre before it closes. So their thinking is to run for youth president to save the place.
00:08:40
Speaker
But it ends up threatening their own friendship as
International Success of 'Siebs'
00:08:43
Speaker
well. So it's a platonic rom-com in a way, but it's also a bit of a murder mystery. Political satire.
00:08:51
Speaker
Political satire. It's everything all in one. Yeah, yeah. And people can check it out on TikTok and Instagram now. So it's 18 by one minute series.
00:09:02
Speaker
But then Amy, can you talk tell me a little bit about the creative team? Because, you know, so you mentioned Broad City and I definitely thought that when watching it because it's created by the two leads as well.
00:09:15
Speaker
But yeah, Amy, can you tell me a little bit about them? Yeah, in terms of the process for developing SEEBS, it has been a really long journey, actually, more than five years. um The creators, Betty Albain and Leigh Lule, are amazing Afro-Australian young people working and creating in the west of Melbourne.
00:09:35
Speaker
And Nikki and I are also based in the west of Melbourne. And, um yeah, we got together, oh i think it was 2019, um I think Nikki was approached by Betty L and they had already created these two quirky characters, Zeon and Ruby.
Advice for Aspiring Creators
00:09:52
Speaker
And I was kind of invited along to join this team. And yeah, we spent a while ah with these characters and with the seeds as a concept. It really evolved from being a YouTube series, I think was the first version of it. And, uh,
00:10:09
Speaker
Many different kind of storylines and different characters too came and went. But um I think it was during lockdown or in between lockdowns, we got some funding through Signal, which is an amazing youth arts organisation.
00:10:23
Speaker
And we just made a very low budget Instagram series of four episodes exploring these characters and their friendship. And um that was a really good kind of launch pad to go, okay we can do this.
00:10:37
Speaker
And um we've got a community of people behind us and all of these wonderful creative young creatives who live in the West. Yeah, where can we go from here? So we just kind of kept developing and we did some pitching competitions. We did digital originals, which is the Screen Australia but initiative that's still running and um we weren't successful in getting that funding through Digital Originals but it kind of gave us the confidence to keep going and apply for development funding and thankfully we had developed it enough through a few other initiatives actually that are more kind of arts-based initiatives not film funded development but um yeah we did that process and then we were successful in getting the Screen Australia development funding and
00:11:22
Speaker
From there, we went forth into production. Yeah. Oh, amazing. Yeah, it I think looking at the um Instagram, like when i was doing some research and stuff, I think you can go back as far as like 2021 and there are videos on the Sieb's Instagram channel. So yeah, they've you've all been producing content on there for a while, stories on there for a while.
00:11:44
Speaker
Um, Nikki, could you tell me a little bit about, so Amy was saying YouTube, you know, there was an IGTV series, you know, based on that, this has kind of been in the vertical storytelling world for a while.
00:11:59
Speaker
So Nikki, what is vertical storytelling for people who don't know? And why do you think that's the right format for a story like this? Vertical storytelling, i guess it's more than just turning the camera on its side.
00:12:14
Speaker
Vertical storytelling is kind of mobile native and i guess it's in the age of social media and content made for social media.
00:12:26
Speaker
So I guess it takes a lot of the language of the internet um and the humor and the pace of storytelling of the internet to be able to to tell stories in a way that's kind of different from what we are used to in traditional media and traditional films and TV as well.
00:12:46
Speaker
For us, I guess um Amy and I and also Betty Allen Lee, we had many conversations around, you know, what is the best platform to exhibit the show on We did consider YouTube. We considered SBS at one point for digital originals.
00:13:04
Speaker
And in the end, we were thinking about TikTok and how TikTok has a very specific algorithm that helps push content to the right audience.
00:13:16
Speaker
And having a show where your main creatives aren't natural, like already content creators online makes it harder to build an audience from scratch.
00:13:29
Speaker
And TikTok can actually help but give us a little bit of an advantage in that. space where their algorithm is just so advanced and kind of picking up what type of people might like this content and what subject matters in this video to be able to push it out to the right people to see it.
00:13:51
Speaker
So that was part of the reason why. and also I guess TikTok itself, it's so Gen zd and so much for the young people that a story like Seebs is perfect it. for our target audience there yeah that was part of the why TikTok was chosen
Conclusion and Pay It Forward Segment
00:14:11
Speaker
and vertical I guess is just like a ah way of telling stories that came with it and Amy so because is TikTok then the primary focus for the series but it's also on Instagram as well is that the kind of strategy
00:14:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's really interesting because we came into it saying this is a TikTok-only series. And i think that came from precedence of what we had seen other wonderful TikTok series do is just release on that platform only. but we made this decision just before releasing, actually. I think it was just the week before we were to release release.
00:14:53
Speaker
to also release on Instagram. I think because we hadn't seen other shows do that before, And we felt like maybe we had to just keep it for TikTok that I am fortunate to work with young people on a daily basis. I've got a contract at the moment working in youth arts.
00:15:11
Speaker
And so I really chatted with the young people about all through this process of release, actually, just to get instant feedback because they were literally watching as we go Before the release, I was chatting to someone who was doing work experience with me saying, oh you know, like,
00:15:28
Speaker
do you think we should literally f for advice, do you think we should just put it on TikTok only? And he was like, well, actually I'm not on TikTok. I'm like, well, you're a young person. How are you not on TikTok? And he's like, i'm I'm just not, but I am on Instagram. And then he said, but surely if you put it on Instagram too, you're increasing the audience And I said, hmm, good point. And so we had kind of been talking about it in our marketing meetings, kind of umming and ahhing about it. And for me, that pushed me over. and I just went and said, hey, look, this kid who's doing work experience with me, it's a good idea.
00:16:03
Speaker
ah Yeah. And we agreed. And so what we found is that our core, core audience, because we had made our Instagram mini series, They were, they're on there. So that's our local, local followers. I can't, I can't remember what they call it in marketing, like your first 1000 people, you know, like they were early adopters, early adopters. Yeah.
00:16:24
Speaker
They were literally, and still are on our Instagram. And then the TikTok became basically the world. Yeah. of our audience, secondary audiences, but also target audience, um primary audience and and beyond. So actually using both platforms simultaneously was a real advantage to us, I think.
00:16:45
Speaker
And also i think we we've been talking to Elise Adams recently who's working with us as a marketing manager on the project. And she was telling us how it's actually quite hard to get people to jump from cross platforms.
00:17:00
Speaker
And that's one of the things we learned while we're doing the early release of like little bits of trailers and stuff like that. um And part of the decision-making was around, you know, just releasing on both because people aren't going to go from TikTok to Instagram or vice versa as easily. Mm-hmm.
00:17:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think the algorithm obviously from Instagram, they want people to stay on Instagram. So we looked at the options of how do we get people to Instagram, which was our plan. We were actually planning.
00:17:30
Speaker
to only just kind of put a still image for each episode on Instagram and say click through to TikTok. But then we realised how hard that was as well and just thought why not let's just give the people what they want. Yeah, and not lose those early adopter yeah kind of audience that you were talking about.
00:17:50
Speaker
exactly. And so did you have like a slightly different strategy for TikTok versus Instagram in terms of like how often you post or like, you know, with the behind the scenes stuff that's on there or like how often you reply to people, things like that?
00:18:07
Speaker
Yeah, we, well, I guess in terms of our strategy, um it was developed by Esther Fawati who did No Ordinary Love. And so she created, I guess, this beautiful framework for the release for us.
00:18:20
Speaker
um And then had to actually leave to go on to um other work. And so Elise jumped on board to help guide us through that process. And yeah, it was slightly different between each platform and we had different behind the scenes content coming out.
00:18:37
Speaker
to complement the episodes. Of course, the episodes went out. out TikTok was our first audience in the morning and then the episode would go out in the afternoon on Instagram.
00:18:48
Speaker
But we would have, yeah, other behind the scenes content go out as well. So if you were following along, you could essentially follow along on both platforms and it would be slightly different for a slightly different experience. But again, we did realise that those two audiences were separate.
00:19:03
Speaker
Yeah, and we did a lot of just experimenting. One thing I would say is that the release strategy was really just to be responsive. and We'd find out that, oh, this thing is not working on this platform.
00:19:17
Speaker
Let's stop doing that. We're also working with Betty Ellen Lee to find collaborations with influencers and content creators who live locally here in Melbourne.
00:19:29
Speaker
And they were kind of coming up with concepts together as we went along in the process and would release it. So it was really kind of a very active time of talking to our community, being responsive, creating new content that we didn't have planned originally. And um it was a huge, huge effort.
00:19:48
Speaker
And um that responsiveness, I think, really helped us to to be successful and reach the people that we needed to. And um Nikki, then what did you think was like the biggest challenge or maybe like unexpected hurdle in creating or releasing thieves? Like ah saw there was some censorship issues on certain episodes.
00:20:11
Speaker
Can talk to them? was interesting. I think um because TikTok has – had so much trouble in the US geopolitically. um So there's ah they're quite strict on political advertising and campaigning.
00:20:29
Speaker
So we had a few episodes because it is political satire. There were a few episodes of Seaves where characters were directly you know mock campaigning as part of the story and those episodes, when we tried to push them out further with boosting or things like that, the algorithm would flag it as a political campaign and there were certain like trigger words I think that the algorithm catches but also sometimes I'm guessing things like where a character does direct-to-camera address
00:21:06
Speaker
that's something that gets picked up as well. And so those factors played in and those episodes on TikTok are only sitting at like a few hundred underneath a thousand at the moment, whereas the rest of them much higher.
00:21:20
Speaker
So yeah, that was difficult to work around and there was just no way we could kind of find a loophole and get around that except tell everyone to watch them. Yeah.
00:21:30
Speaker
Yeah. It's really, it's three it's interesting because it's like those episodes, like this isn't a drama, hard drama, political drama. It's like absurdist comedy and those episodes that you're referring to ah really funny, like obviously comedy.
00:21:47
Speaker
um so it's, yeah. Yeah, they don't pick up. humor and irony and satire well um and we even try to when they when tiktok makes a decision on censorship you can always try and appeal it but it doesn't mean like even if they like approve your appeal doesn't mean you can re-upload and everything will be fine so it's a strange one Yeah. yeah's strange And I don't, I don't think that we really have even figured out exactly what it is or why maybe combination. It's just like, it's not like you can speak to someone, you know, you can't call someone or email TikTok.
00:22:28
Speaker
It's just like the computer says no. And that's, you've kind of just got to live with it yeah and give it and respond in the only, you know, creatively. So Betty Ellen Lee,
00:22:39
Speaker
made this really funny TikTok video of them dancing around and just kind of, it's so silly and funny, but like, that's all we could do is respond with a TikTok video and just say, hey, check out these episodes if you can.
00:22:54
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. um So Amy, then I'm also wondering, you know, what were some like big positive surprises? You know, I saw there was a big following in Africa and in Ireland, but like, was there anything that jumped out at you as like just a big surprise in making this and releasing it?
00:23:14
Speaker
I think it's probably, yeah, I think we've talked a little bit about online, um the following from Africa, which has been so wonderful. And just to so also kind of ah think that maybe sometimes those international broader audiences aren't as celebrated as a successful kind of like reach. yeah But I think that for us it really has been and particularly because we're showcasing that Afro-Australian experience or one ah experiences from Afro-Australian community.
00:23:47
Speaker
And so that's been really lovely. And I think just in the comments, it's, you know, people are like, here from Nigeria, from Uganda. And then other people are commenting here from Texas.
00:23:58
Speaker
And so that's been a wonderful um kind of way to connect with an international audience. But also I'd say just back to our that core audience, our early adopters, like we had a screening here in Yarraville at the Sun Theatre.
00:24:14
Speaker
And that was just lovely to um share with our community and particularly the collaborations that we've done. So some of the Afro-Australian content creators and just local podcasts.
00:24:26
Speaker
I'm a big podcast fan and they have really embraced us as well. So, ah and here we are on another podcast. so I think... There'll be more screenings coming as well. though Doing that kind of, I guess, quote unquote, impact producing and connecting with community kind of again through the release has been really special and it will continue to be a really kind of important part of our ongoing release. Even though we've finished on social media for the moment, we'll have these ongoing screenings, I think, that will be a chance to kind of connect again with community. Mm-hmm.
00:25:05
Speaker
Yeah. It's not like the release and then the kind of story stops there. It keeps going with these kinds of community screenings and things. yeah Um, and so what advice would you give to anyone who's thinking about making a vertical series?
00:25:21
Speaker
Um, Nikki, you first. Oh, marketing, marketing, marketing. I think it's such a huge part of, it's not just vertical, but online series that it really takes forethought and planning at the very beginning for a show to be successful at the end.
00:25:46
Speaker
It's kind of like when you think about development, production, pre-production and post, it's like marketing's that this part of it as well. Yeah.
00:25:57
Speaker
And also i guess the language of a vertical series is different from linear TV or film. and It really needs to adapt to the pace and the vernacular of what it is to be on the internet.
00:26:16
Speaker
So working and leaning into that is I think a good idea. um Yeah, great. And Amy? I think my advice would be kind of just looking at Baddiel and Lee and what they did with the show in terms of even in the early stages is that they had a pitch deck already completed.
00:26:40
Speaker
Although if we went back to look at it it, would be very different to what the show is now. But they had a vision and they were able to um yeah articulate it and put it. I think they even had like colour palettes for the costumes of the characters. You know, they were really specific.
00:26:56
Speaker
And the other thing is that they had created something to start off with because just through sheer passion. So they had a couple of YouTube episodes that they created just you know, with community, with volunteers.
00:27:08
Speaker
And, you know, they weren't like highly polished, but we could see, you know, that they they were funny. i remember laughing out loud. And just that they had done something. I think sometimes the advice that you hear from people in general is start the thing, but I would say finish the thing as well.
00:27:31
Speaker
because I think actually finishing something is the hardest thing. So they started and they made these little YouTube skits. They finished them and then they had something to give to Nikki and I to say, we're serious about this and we want to go ahead and kind of bring people on board. So we could kind of see that they had taken initiative and they knew how to finish something and also how to pitch their ideas the pitching part of it is so hard. And of course we all developed our skills as we kind of went on together and literally had to pitch and just to see the way that they improved in pitching, but also their writing skills and yeah, across the board.
00:28:10
Speaker
I think that's my advice. Yeah, great. um Okay, so last ah segment, it's our Pay It Forward segment. So where ah someone gives us a, the previous guest gives us a question to ask you.
00:28:24
Speaker
And after you answer, you come up with a question for the next guest. So the Pay It Forward question is from Leela Vergees, the co-writer director of Lesbian Space Princess, who asked,
00:28:35
Speaker
Is there some secret that you figured out in the industry later in your career that you kind of wish that you had had the answer to earlier?
00:28:50
Speaker
Whoa.
00:28:52
Speaker
It's so cute. It might be here for another 10 minutes. That is hard question. um i would say i would say asking for help.
00:29:05
Speaker
It can be hard and a little alienating, especially if you are a writer. It's such a solitary process unless you have a writing partner. But I think asking for help is something that I had to kind of get better at doing because especially when you can't, if you've done film school and you kind of come out of that path and you're taught to be, you know, go out there and be an auteur, it's actually really hard to do. You need to find the people and the community to support your ideas um collaboratively. So find your people and ask for help I think is it's good advice.
00:29:46
Speaker
Who stole my answer? Sorry. You can be like, and agree. you agree. um I guess my similarly, I feel like when I realized this when I was doing an internship with Vicks Green, being...
00:30:04
Speaker
like the most junior person in a production company or a screen agency, like I realized through that experience that your creative opinion matters and that your voice matters in a room and to be ah to be able to listen to your own instinct on things and not be afraid to speak up Sometimes it's harder because it's always there's more experienced people in the room than you.
00:30:39
Speaker
And through that experience that I had in that year and in in the internship, I came out at the other end being like, okay, people actually do want to hear what my opinion is creatively and I have a voice in the industry.
00:30:54
Speaker
It's just learning to be confident in yourself to express that. Yeah, definitely. And so just lastly, I just wanted to say congratulations on the series, Sibs. Check it out on TikTok and Instagram, anyone listening who hasn't seen it.
00:31:12
Speaker
And thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. Thanks for having us.
00:31:18
Speaker
That was Amy Batalabasi and Nikki Tran. Thanks so much to them for chatting on the podcast. This episode was produced and edited by myself with logo design by Shara Parsons and music by Seb Sabotage-Gavrilovic.
00:31:31
Speaker
If you enjoyed listening, please hit that subscribe button and leave us a review. See you in a fortnight.