Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Monica Zanetti: building a directing and writing career across film and TV
0 Plays2 seconds ago
We’re joined on Breaking Screen by Monica Zanetti - an award-winning screenwriter and director, who talks about how she shifts between working on her own IP or being a gun for hire on film and television, her writing and directing process, how being a Catherine Hardwicke fan led her to filmmaking, and why the Notes app has become a crucial part of development.
Monica is the co-creator of the SBS series While The Men Away, of which she directed the bottle episode. Monica also wrote and directed the film Ellie & Abbie (& Ellie’s Dead Aunt) which was based on her stage play of the same name. The film won the 2021 AACTA award for Best Independent Film and is now playing on Netflix. She was nominated for an Australian Directors' Guild award for her work on the SBS series Iggy & Ace, and her earlier work includes writing on the Netflix series Sisters and the Acorn series My Life Is Murder.
Recommended
Transcript
Welcome & Acknowledgment of Country
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to Breaking Screen, a podcast about the Australian screen industry and the creative people within it. I'm your host, Karis Buzaka, and I'm recording this podcast from the lands of the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation, where I'm very grateful to be a visitor and be able to work on these lands.
00:00:18
Speaker
Always was, always will be.
New Film Funding Initiatives
00:00:21
Speaker
Today's episode will feature writer-director Monica Zanetti, but before we get to that chat, here's some news from the Australian screen industry. Applications for short film funding have opened in New South Wales and Queensland.
00:00:33
Speaker
Screen New South Wales has announced its short-to-feature Fast Track initiative is back and will support up to three creative teams with up to $75,000 each in production and development funding.
00:00:45
Speaker
Applications close Monday 15th of September. Meanwhile, Screen Queensland has launched a new short film fund. Filmmakers can apply for grants of up to $50,000 for scripted and factual projects between 5 and 15 minutes in length.
00:01:00
Speaker
Applications close Friday 19th of September. For those not in New South Wales and Queensland, you can also apply for short film funding through Screen Australia as part of their new guidelines launched in July.
00:01:12
Speaker
In other news, VicScreen has announced the eight feature projects that will progress to the next stage of its Originate Genre initiative. Those writers will receive a $10,000 grant and six months of structured development.
00:01:25
Speaker
And lastly, Screen Australia and the Australian Writers Guild have announced the seven participants selected for their career accelerator, The Creators, one of who is our guest today, Monica Zanetti.
00:01:35
Speaker
Now in its third year, the Creators Program will provide high-level showrunner training as well as project and pitching development for selling stories in Australia and overseas. And that's your news wrap-up for now.
00:01:47
Speaker
Remember to head over to any of the Australian trade publications for more. Now to chat with today's guest.
Meet Monica Zanetti
00:01:54
Speaker
We're joined on Breaking Screen by Monica Zanetti, an award-winning screenwriter and director.
00:01:59
Speaker
She is the co-creator of the SBS series While the Men Are Away, of which she directed the Bottle episode. Monica also wrote and directed the film Ellie and Abby and Ellie's Dead Aunt, which was based on her stage play of the same name.
00:02:12
Speaker
The film won the 2021 Actor Award for Best Independent Film and is now playing on Netflix. She was nominated for an Australian Directors Guild Award for her work on the SBS series Iggy and Ace, and her earlier work includes writing on the Netflix series Sisters and the Acorn series My Life is Murder.
00:02:31
Speaker
Throughout the episode, Monica talks about how she shifts between writing or directing and working on her own IP or being a gun for hire, her different processes for the two, and much more.
Influences & Inspirations
00:02:42
Speaker
Here's that chat.
00:02:47
Speaker
Just to start off with, so in the screen industry, you know, we talk a lot about inciting incidents for different stories. um So if you were thinking about your career in the industry, what would you say is the inciting incident? Whether it was something that happened to you like when you were much younger, um like a kid, or whether it was, you you know, the thing that kind of like got you on the path that you're on right now?
00:03:15
Speaker
um I would definitely say my inciting incident um was the movie Twilight or more specifically that the director of Twilight, Catherine Hardwick, who as far as I'm concerned invented independent film with the film Twilight,
00:03:33
Speaker
she released this um book when the film came out that was called Her Director's Journal. And, you know, I'm very aware that it could just have been a marketing ploy, but to me, it definitely felt like an organic representation of of her journal of making this film. And it was a book, it had pages of like her notebook, um photos from behind the scenes, the way that she came up with ideas for costuming, stories about casting.
00:04:02
Speaker
And I was so obsessed. I mean, I was obsessed with Twilight. Like as a fan, i was became so obsessed with this book that she put out. And I'd always like loved film. And like most people as a kid, you know, my introduction to the the industry was through like, oh, I want to be an actor or dancer, which I was
First Film Experiences
00:04:21
Speaker
at the time. i was very into dance, like something in the performing part of it.
00:04:25
Speaker
when and so I was at drama school when those films came out and when Catherine Hardwick released that book and that for me was a real kind of turning point in thinking about like actually being a filmmaker and you know I'd always written things I'd always had ideas for things but I think because she introduced me to independent film and talked a lot about things like Sundance and starting her career at Sundance like that introduced me really to like what Sundance was and It was this particular year of all these filmmakers.
00:04:56
Speaker
it was around like 2011 and all these filmmakers were now able to make these kind of beautiful looking feature films on really small budgets because of the introduction of the Canon.
00:05:07
Speaker
was called the Canon Rebel in the US and it was called the Canon 5D in Australia. And that, yeah, it was just this year of filmmakers making It was the Lena Dunhams, the Brit Marlings that had made these films on these kind of cameras. And all of a sudden that world just felt very possible, the idea of making your own work. And I think it was that year that I made my very first short film. I dropped out of drama school and made my very first short film.
00:05:33
Speaker
And that, yeah, that all happened because of Catherine Hardwick's Twilight. And can you tell me that what that short film was? Yes, it was a short film called Guardian Elf.
00:05:45
Speaker
Which has got a Twilight link, I think. ah You would think it has a Twilight link. Yes, it does actually have a Twilight link on the poster. On the poster. Which is so embarrassing because the film has nothing to do with Twilight. I thought it was funny that the elf would wear a Team Edward shirt but say Team Elf. Like, it's so embarrassing about it. It's kind of sweet.
00:06:09
Speaker
Yeah. I it. It's a nod to your, you know, introduction to independent cinema. It was a nod. And what was funny is that I made that short film being inspired by all these filmmakers at Sundance. Like I truly thought this is how you start a career.
00:06:22
Speaker
You make a film and you put it into Sundance and then your career starts. And so we absolutely made that short film with the goal of getting it into Sundance. which is just so sweet because it didn't didn't even come close. I think it got into like a couple of obscure short film festivals that have never been heard of again. But I really fell in love with that process of making something and finishing something And yeah, so that, that was the first
Filmmaking Passion & Feedback
00:06:50
Speaker
thing I ever made. And I truly just fell in love with that, that process and the freedom of going like, oh, if you have a script and I think, you know, it wasn't around maybe to my next project, which was a fringe play that had direct audience response that I realized that, oh, maybe it's not that I just love writing. Maybe it's also that I can do it that I'm meant to be doing.
00:07:11
Speaker
Yeah, I think that freedom of just being like, oh, when you are a filmmaker that makes things this way, that just gets in and does it, then there's not a lot that can stop you. And I found that very, just the most wonderful feeling. I still love that that feeling. It's rarer now when you make things higher up with more people needing to say yes to things, but that was definitely the feeling that sent me on my on my way.
00:07:33
Speaker
Yeah, because you so you wrote and starred in Guardian Elf. Yes. And you acted in a few of your um early works. I did. But was the goal always to do directing, do you think, like Catherine Hardwick?
00:07:48
Speaker
um Like Catherine Hardwick? I think – Yes, I think it was. i think because i got thrown into it in such a DIY way, it kind of took me a while to realise the difference between all of the jobs.
00:08:00
Speaker
i think when you're doing things in DIY, you do everything. And so you forget like which parts of... You know, it was hard for me to work out in the beginning, like which parts of it was the directing I was doing or which part of it was the writing and which part was the producing because it was all everything. And, um you know, so my fringe play, for example, Still still Seeking Other, which was a play about a romance dating agency.
00:08:28
Speaker
Yeah, I did everything on that play and I couldn't tell you like where one job started. It just blurred. No boundaries. And then it wasn't until Skin Deep, which was my first low budget feature, that um I actually had a director come on and direct that.
00:08:45
Speaker
and So I wrote that one and I was in that one. and it yeah, it wasn't until I had an actual director come on that I was just like, oh, okay. You know, and I would overstep and he would have to say like, okay, that has to be my job. And I would have to be like, oh okay. Yeah.
00:09:00
Speaker
All right. That's there. There yeah, that's where the boundaries are. are Cool. I get it. So, um, that's how
Balancing Writing & Directing
00:09:07
Speaker
it started. And I think by the time, you know, I think skin deep potentially was the last thing that I was in that I made after that, it became just about the creative side of the process as opposed to, you know, that kind of felt like the last things I was holding onto with my, my acting training and going through drama school, it kind of felt like I have to make that worth it. I have to be things. And then,
00:09:28
Speaker
Realised I completely was really falling out of love with that part. And then I think by the time i made my next short film after Skin D, because I went back and made another short film called Young Labor, I was i was out of out of my work.
00:09:42
Speaker
And so since then you've kind of done both writing and directing. How do you juggle that? Because, yeah, you say like your feature, Ellie and Abby and Ellie's dead aunt.
00:09:55
Speaker
that you wrote and directed that, but then you wrote an episode of Sisters, which you, the television series, how do you kind of juggle those two or do you try and write and direct solely now?
00:10:07
Speaker
It's interesting when, so when sisters came along, for example, which was my first ever TV writing job, I think like that was very much a, like a writer for hire job. And I just was so excited to have that job.
00:10:20
Speaker
And it, um, you know, was network TV. It was a whole other world to me. And so that it never even kind of occurred to me to kind of go after the directing part of like network TV by then. It's so interesting.
00:10:34
Speaker
you know, getting to write on it. And I'd spent a few years working in writer's rooms as a note taker. So it I very much had a very clear goal of like, that was my goal of getting into writer's rooms and getting into network TV was through, through the writing. And when I think back to like who the directors were on that series, it's so,
00:10:50
Speaker
crazy, like Shannon Murphy was the director of my episode of Sisters. And that's just so mind blowing now considering like what she's gone on to do and just how cool that is and what a cool opportunity. So early in my career to get to work with someone like Shannon Murphy.
00:11:05
Speaker
So yeah, in the very much the writer for hire kind of space, I find it really easy to separate those roles, like really easy to be like, yep, I'm here to do this job and write this episode. On things I create, I find that that is harder to, you know, I kind of have this thing now when people ask me what it is that I want to do. Do I want to write or do I want to direct or do I always have to be both?
00:11:28
Speaker
My distinction seems to be like I am really interested in you know, being able to direct on other people's like feature film scripts that they, you know, don't want to direct themselves or everyone wants to do that or other people's episodes of TV, like finding that visual way to add to something.
00:11:46
Speaker
Whereas if it's a film script that I have written now, something that has come from an idea that I've had or something, I find that very hard to not picture myself directing it. Yeah.
00:11:57
Speaker
And that's definitely not to say that I wouldn't allow someone else to direct it. I definitely, if I, you know, write something and I genuinely think there is a better director for this than me, then I'm very happy to, to hand over your hand over the raids and and let them do their job.
00:12:13
Speaker
But when it's something I've created, one, I usually find that I'm directing it as I'm writing it. Like I can see it really clearly how it's going to play out. I can already see, you know, I have been told from time to time, like, oh, there's directing notes in this yeah as people are reading it.
00:12:28
Speaker
So I find it quite easy when it's something I've created to find that balance. And then, yeah, i I do think I am quite good at when it's a job for hire of going, this is the job I've been hired to do and switching to that part of my brain and knowing Now, having, you know, had enough experience knowing, okay, cool, yes, this is where the boundary is. yeah Yeah.
00:12:49
Speaker
And so how do you um then, you know, as you're kind of navigating your career, like how do you decide if you're going to be working on something where it's your own IP and you're, you know, I'm sure that's like quite a long development process comparative to being a writer for hire, director for hire.
00:13:06
Speaker
How do you kind of shift between those spaces? Do you do you do one and then the other or It's more organic. Yeah.
Current Projects & Prioritization
00:13:12
Speaker
yeah I used to have this ability to be able to work on two things at once, to be able to split my day and be like, cool, today for the first part of this morning, I'm going to work on this script. And then for, you know, this afternoon, I'm going to work on this pitch. And I i just can't do that anymore. It has to be a solid block of time.
00:13:29
Speaker
i love the idea that it's always my decision on how I'm going to work on it, but it's usually... if Very much not. At the moment, for example, I have one TV show in development that is my idea. It's something I've created that I just got some Screen Australia funding for.
00:13:46
Speaker
And that's something that I've been wanting to work on now. I think I came up with the idea for that one in 2022. So it's kind of like I've finally been able to carve out the time for that one.
00:13:57
Speaker
So it's been sitting there waiting to be looked at. Are you able to say what it is? um Yeah, sure. Why not? It's a show. If it's got funding, it'll be. It's funding. It'll get in there. It's a show called The Sommelier and it's about a young sommelier who is kind of a wine genius and for reasons ends up kind of getting kicked out of the wine world and finds herself unable to be around alcohol anymore and so decides to get into the world of making non-alcoholic wine and being someone who is considered a wine genius and a palate genius
00:14:36
Speaker
kind of makes it her mission to make this non-alcoholic wine that can sit on the on the wine list of all the restaurants that she's not allowed in anymore. It's just I loved the idea of making a drama in a specific such a specific world.
00:14:48
Speaker
and So that's kind of you know something that I've had around that I've softened that I've thought about and I finally have the time to write it and at the same time I would say I've also got in development I'm attached to develop this Paul Jennings adaptation with Fremantle And so that's something that's not my IP, but something that I did, me, Catherine, Smythe McMillan and Gemma Crofts went and fought for that IP.
00:15:12
Speaker
So in a way it feels quite personal because it was IP that we really wanted. And so we had to go and get it. I'm also in very early stages development on another book adaptation,
00:15:24
Speaker
with another company, which was something that came to me that I pitched on. So it was, you know, IP that I never would have heard of before if I hadn't been asked to come and pitch on it. So I have one TV show like that. And then I have another feature film that's similar, that's IP, that was kind of brought to me when it was brought to a bunch of people to say, do you want to pitch a take on this?
00:15:42
Speaker
And... And so that's another one that I'm working on. And then I have two features that I have written that are mine, my original ideas that are out, one that's with producers and is out to cast, and then one that's at the earliest stages of trying to get a producer.
00:15:58
Speaker
So yeah if you were to look at my slate right now, it's this mix. It's like two features and one TV series that's mine. two TV c series and one feature that's IP, there's others.
00:16:11
Speaker
And all those projects have been around since, yeah, some have started this year, some have been around since 2022, and it's just all accumulated that now that's what's on my slate. And now they basically will go by whichever gets sold first, picked up first.
00:16:28
Speaker
You know, that's the one that I will... be focusing on. And so, yeah, it's kind of like ah a little bit out of my control right now, which is, um, yeah, which is,
00:16:40
Speaker
Terrifying. yeah But exciting that there is. Exciting, yes, exciting, yes. sorry So much happening.
Creating 'Ellie and Abby'
00:16:46
Speaker
um And so I wanted to ask a couple of like process questions, you know, your writing process, your directing process, but I wondered if we could do that through the lens of um something like ah your first feature, Ellie and Abby, which came out in 2020? Yeah.
00:17:04
Speaker
twenty Yeah. Yeah. yeah um because i remember it was a released during lockdowns and things like that um yeah because we chatted about it at the time i was at screen australia um actually a ah little ah little side note which i don't know if i'll keep this in the episode let's see let's say i A little side note is that, um yeah, so when I saw that movie, it's a really special movie. So it's a it's a teen rom-com, but it has queer storyline for anyone that hasn't seen it.
00:17:35
Speaker
um Check it out. ah I actually watched it. I was still closeted at the time. um And when I interviewed you, it was the first time I'd like written about any kind of like queer cinema or anything. So I was like,
00:17:47
Speaker
absolutely terrified on and but I also just thought it was like such a beautiful movie because I was like oh I'd had something like this growing up and the fact that there are all these teenagers that can watch something like this which was part of the inspiration for for writing it wasn't it that you wish that you'd had something like that you could go watch with your mom or ah when you were growing up is that right yeah yeah it was that um first all thank you for sharing that um um ah It was that I wanted, yeah, a rom-com I could watch at the cinema with my mum that was queer because my mum and i would go and watch like rom-coms together.
00:18:25
Speaker
Anything from like Letters to Juliet is the one that really sticks in my mind, which is such a random film with like Amanda Seyfried and that guy from Home and Away. Yes. um But yeah, we loved, we loved going to see a rom-com. And whenever I would watch queer films, you know, around that same time,
00:18:44
Speaker
very much in my discovery process of the 2010s, 2009, 2010, it was all films that like, you know, Blue is the Warmest Colour, it's the biggest one that comes to mind because I was quite obsessed with that film. Yeah.
00:18:57
Speaker
But there was no way I could watch that my mum. not really the kind of movie you want to go see with your mum. No, exactly. And I found that to be the theme is that even if I found something that I really enjoyed, I couldn't watch it with my mum because of how much sex was in it or...
00:19:12
Speaker
You're not going to watch The L Word with your mum. was not going to The L Word with my mum. And so that was kind of the feeling behind Ellie and Abby. And i specifically remember being in ah cinema when I was watching Stay With Me, when I was in the all-female Ghostbusters in 2015, whenever that was.
00:19:32
Speaker
And that was kind of when I realised, you know, who Kate McKinnon was and She was, you know, so flirty in that role and obviously such a queer character. And I remember looking around the cinema and realising that everyone, not just me, was like in love with that character and like wanted to watch that character flirt, wanted to watch her and Kristen Wiig hook up, even though that was not in the story. Like I could feel kind of the energy in the audience that that was what we all wanted.
00:19:58
Speaker
And I just remember having that feeling of I really feel like audiences are ready for that in something you know I was thinking mainstream, Elian Abbey was definitely not a mainstream film, but you know that that was kind of like the the feeling behind it.
00:20:11
Speaker
And i had that feeling of like, I feel like maybe if I build this, people will come and see it. Anyway, and so that was kind of the inspiration, except then I chickened out of trying to make it as a film because I had made it a low budget film before and I knew how hard it was. So I made it as a play first. That felt like something maybe...
00:20:28
Speaker
um here's this word again I could have a bit more control over like if no one picked it up I could hire a theater and put it on I've done that before I knew how to do that and so yeah that was what I wanted and we did do it as a play first and then everyone who came to see it who knew me quite well was just like that was a film who just put a film on stage and I was like no that was a play no like it had like swear 52 scene changes, that was a film. I don't i don't think you're a theatre writer. and
00:21:00
Speaker
so I realised I had to make it as a film. And it and it um I mean, even having it as a play though, then, you know, when you did crowdfunding and things like that, that would have helped that that there was already like existing people would have seen it, things like that.
00:21:14
Speaker
So you you wrote it as a play and then adapted it to the film. Yeah. But... So if we're talking about your writing process, how long did that take? You used to work, you said you used to work on multiple projects a day. Was it like your morning project that you would do? I can see there's a whiteboard in the background of your screen. Like, was it did you map it all out on the whiteboard first? What was that like?
00:21:38
Speaker
Okay. So when I wrote the play, this is a story that i don't tell people that these, no, I do tell people, but please take this as a cautionary story because this is not how things are meant to be done. Okay. But I think because I'd been, ah at the time I wrote the play, I'd been working as kind of an assistant on a big TV show. So I was doing something really not creative that took up every hour of my day. So there was no room to be creative, but I was spending so much time driving.
00:22:04
Speaker
So I was kind of crafting this story for Ellie and Abby kind of in my head as I was, you know, driving around. And it he started my long lasting relationship that I still have now with the notes app on my phone. I would just, I'd have an idea. I'd just quickly write it down.
00:22:20
Speaker
Whether it was like for a scene, a character, a bit of dialogue, it was just random thoughts I would have in between like picking up a cast member. I'd quickly like write it down in my phone. Yeah. And that was my earliest development process for the play was just this thing of like, yeah, having all this time to think, having the freedom to have conversations with myself because I was spending so much time in the car alone and writing things down.
00:22:43
Speaker
And so then When that job finished, I was like, okay, I'm so desperate to do something creative. I want to do this, put this play on next year. Let me see what theatre companies, when their submission deadlines are.
00:22:56
Speaker
And basically all of them were closed except one theatre company, which is a much smaller theatre company in Merrickville, can't remember what it was called back then. I'm pretty sure it's called Flight Path Theatre now.
00:23:11
Speaker
And um they were closing their submission in two days on the Friday. so And so I came up with this plan, which is crazy. where I was like, okay, I'll do the application part.
00:23:25
Speaker
I'll submit it on the Friday 5pm. And then it was a long weekend, Saturday, Sunday, Monday. And then I was like, because they asked for the script, obviously the submission.
00:23:37
Speaker
And I was like, I'm going to write the script. over that long weekend and I will just pretend that I forgot to attach it. And I think by the time they get to even looking at my application and notice it's not there, I reckon I've got to at least, you know, i thought I could probably push it to the Thursday next week. So I thought I have a week to write this play.
00:24:00
Speaker
That was the delusion I had in my head and thinking between everything I'd written down in my notes app, I kind of knew where I was going. And so that was my plan at like 4.58 p.m. on the Friday. i submitted every other part of the application and then was like, okay, now I need to write this thing.
00:24:18
Speaker
And I submitted it at 4.58 p.m. pm At 4.59pm, they replied and said, hi Monica, just looking at your application, you've not submitted, you not attached the script, can you please attach it?
00:24:33
Speaker
And I was like, okay. So now I have to pretend. that I've logged off for the weekend and I will not see this email until Tuesday morning. When I log back on, I'm doing quotation marks. Yes.
00:24:47
Speaker
because We never log off. Anyway, and that was, I just was like, I just have to commit to this and hope that this is going to work. And so I spent that long weekend, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, doing nothing but writing that play.
00:25:02
Speaker
And I do not know how I've never been able to do something like that again. i just pushed and pushed and pushed and I got that play written. It was not...
00:25:16
Speaker
a perfect script by any means, but I got it in. I had something ready and slightly proofread to send, um, on that first Tuesday morning, um, to pretend I'd logged back on and attached the script. And anyway, lo and behold, we ended up getting a season of that play.
00:25:35
Speaker
You know, it was a small two week season to start with, but that was how I wrote that. first draft and that is a weird process that yeah just is not is not like my normal process but when it came to writing the film after we'd done the play oh and obviously like the script changed through rehearsal process for the play because there was so much in it that was just like oh that's a spelling mistake or Oh, that's, I'm really just feel like I'm trying to take up a page there because I didn't quite know what I was going to write.
00:26:03
Speaker
But when it came to writing it, I went to LA for a month and I worked at Charlie's, the Lab for Australians in Film. And I did the first pass of adapting into a feature.
00:26:15
Speaker
And then it just kept evolving and evolving and evolving by the time we got to film it. And like, sometimes I would make big changes. Sometimes I would just have small changes, um mostly just trying to convert it into something much more visual.
00:26:30
Speaker
I've always been a quite a dialogue heavy writer. I really love dialogue. And so just trying to like, when I had to start thinking of it in the lead up to making that film from a directing point of view and not from a writing point of view and not for a directing for stage point of view, that really pushed me to kind of change that draft. And so it was months and oh like probably a year, i would say, a couple of years because we ended up shooting that in 2019 and the play was on in 2017.
00:26:58
Speaker
And I was always kind of working on it in that space. So yeah, so it was a long, a longer process. And then it changed again in the edit, like once we'd shot it, because we only had such a short amount of time to shoot the film a lot changed in the edit so that's a process for one project I would say that's not usual except for the fact that all my projects now start in the notes app like I start yeah time I have a nugget of an idea it goes in the notes app it's yeah that's interesting it's like um Joan Didion has always spoken about and she wrote a thing about having a every writer should have ah a notebook that they carry with them yeah and I feel like
00:27:36
Speaker
for um generations that have used phone mobile phones that the Notes app is our portable
Notes App: A Writer's Tool
00:27:43
Speaker
notebook. Totally. The Notes app is absolutely our portable notebook. And I just, you know, yeah so I'll start. Every idea has its own Notes app.
00:27:52
Speaker
And then if it stays with me, if I keep thinking of things to add to it as it like goes along, you know, over the days and the weeks and the months, you know, it gets to the point that I start to think maybe this has legs.
00:28:02
Speaker
There's also several notes in my phone that have never made it out of the notes app. It's, you know, it's something that feels like it's strong. And then ah realize it kind of peters off and it's, there's actually nothing there. It just was a good scene. Maybe it's a good scene for something else.
00:28:15
Speaker
But I have to have a really sturdy notes app of something before I think, okay, I'm ready to commit this to a beach. yeah Yeah. And that's that's kind of how it starts.
00:28:27
Speaker
The other thing I wanted to ask was then, okay, with your, that's your writing, some of your writing process with your directing process, do you feel like you have a certain approach? You know, some directors are very technical. Some directors, you know, feel like their strength is really in working with actors. Like, is there something that you kind of feel most drawn to as a director with your process? Yeah.
00:28:51
Speaker
Yeah, it's so interesting because when it comes to writing, I'm such a feelings, you know, I like to start from a feeling. i like to start from an emotion. That's how I like to approach writing. And when it comes to directing, I do start with the technical stuff.
00:29:04
Speaker
I find that once I feel really comfortable with where it is technically, I feel like I can relax a bit more with the emotion and the being able to, yeah, like just talk comfortably with the actors about the scene once I've done all my technical work first.
00:29:19
Speaker
Do you mean like in terms of blocking or figuring out what lenses to use or? Yeah. and Yeah. Mostly like blocking and being able to like look at the scene, break it down into the beats, like the beats of when I picture it in my head of how I feel like it's going to cut together, doing that stuff, like doing the the shot list and the storyboarding. Yes.
00:29:41
Speaker
All that stuff first. Then I feel really comfortable because it's almost like I can picture the scene in my head that way. i can picture it running. I can picture how it could move and flow. So then when I do talk to actors about performance and get like their ideas because that's my dream is that like I do that work we sit down we have a conversation we're both kind of on the same page with the gut feeling of the scene and then I can just allow them to do what they want to do yeah that to me is like the perfect and only have to like kind of intervene if something's if it's just kind of gone off track or if it feels like the the point of the scene is getting lost or something then yeah
00:30:18
Speaker
then I'll jump in. But um if I feel comfortable in the setup and visually how I can see it, then I feel like that I'm really then have a much more relaxed time or I can have what seems like a relaxed approach because I know that I've done all that other work. Whereas I know a lot of directors like to go emotions first or the
Directing Philosophy
00:30:41
Speaker
underlying stuff first. And it's so interesting. I like to go...
00:30:44
Speaker
technical technical first yeah it's kind of you have that the the groundwork yeah you have all the groundwork done so that then you can kind of have the freedom totally and I think that that might come from having some acting training going to drama school because everything we learned was about like doing the technical work doing the deep stuff so that when you got on stage you could like let it all go and just allow the the magic to happen and I feel like I may be because of that I that's how I approach directing as well oh And ah another question was just around, um so we're talking about Ellie and Abby before, but a lot of your work has kind of gone into, um you know, queer storytelling, um whether that was from, you know, the the feature that you spoke about, Skin Deep, going to Ellie and Abby and Iggy and Ace and...
00:31:35
Speaker
While the Men Were Away and, you know, there is a ah theme across several of your projects. And I was just wondering if you feel like since that, you know, i think Skin Deep was 2015.
00:31:49
Speaker
um Since then, if you feel that there has been better representation within the Australian screen industry, like, behind the scenes and in kind of actual characters if you feel like that has progressed since then because yeah even with Ellie and Abby that was groundbreaking in a way that a lot of the things you've done have been like groundbreaking in certain ways because ah of having those queer storylines but do you feel like there has been progress over that time I mean, look, I definitely do because like when we made Skin Deep, so Skin Deep kind of came out in cinemas in 2015, but we shot it in
Queer Representation Progress
00:32:28
Speaker
2013.
00:32:28
Speaker
and So that was very different time. And we applied for that film. We applied to get some finishing funding, like completion funding. um We also applied for certain film festivals that i definitely won't name, all of which now, i remember at the time when we would do those applications, the fact that it was a female driven queer story.
00:32:49
Speaker
And in the case of skin deep, didn't have any male characters in it We were told repetitively that that was a hindrance, that if we wanted wow to have an audience, and no one could place it. They just were like, we don't understand who this audience is and who this film is for.
00:33:06
Speaker
And we were constantly called niche. This is niche. And we don't really, it's too niche for our film festival or it's too niche for asked to give you completion funding.
00:33:16
Speaker
And yeah, it's 2012. So it was kind of wild that that was not seen as something that people, it didn't help us basically, way that now you could potentially go into those worlds and kind of say, like, we're telling a story for this underrepresented group.
00:33:33
Speaker
And they would be excited about that or supportive about that. Like that's, that's how it feels to me. And that's been my experience. I understand people have, have different experiences with that. And so, yeah, so the difference, there was light and day between Ellie and me.
00:33:47
Speaker
Like when we made that film, like that also, like Skin Deep, we, crowdfunded a huge bulk of the shooting budget for that just to get it made. But the funding bodies were coming to us being like, how we want to help you finish this film. um And people were coming to us to kind of be like, let us know when it's ready to be seen, when it's ready for distribution, when it's ready to get into festivals. It was such a different experience.
00:34:09
Speaker
because, i mean, I always knew that audience was there. That's when I crowdfunded Ellie and Abby. I could crowdfund it because I knew who the audience was and I knew that they were there. And that audience has always been there.
00:34:21
Speaker
But the way in which they seen as... saying as quote unquote valuable now to the people that do put in the money for things, both on all levels. are the gatekeepers That, yes, has been the biggest shift that I have noticed.
00:34:38
Speaker
And, you know, so I have to say from that point of view, it does feel like it's gotten better to me but that is because I have had that very specific experience yeah of having it be just val blatantly like like oh what are you doing who is this for so it does feel like night and day and look I will say there were definitely people back then who really would have loved to have fought for it but you know the the powers higher up were just too high yeah so that's been a change Oh, great. Well, I'm glad it was such a different experience for Ellie and Abby. um yeah That's nice to hear. And um which would then take me to um my last question, which is in this um pay it forward segment.
Choosing Collaborators
00:35:21
Speaker
So, so the question that I have for you is from Charles Williams. So he said, well, he, You know, whatever you're making, it's it like in um film or TV, like the crux of what you're making is always coming from a collaborative experience, even no matter how much you author something.
00:35:39
Speaker
The people you choose is almost the project itself. So I guess my question is, how do you go about choosing those people? Like, what is it? Are you looking for the most experienced?
00:35:53
Speaker
Are you looking for somebody who you just get along with, but maybe is an experience? like whatever that is, like the question is, yeah, why do you choose someone? And what's your standard for choosing the people you collaborate with?
00:36:05
Speaker
Oh, that's so interesting. I definitely, I look absolutely. You have to be able to get along with the people you're working. I think that's so important. And when you're not, it's, it's awful. It's like, it's so awful that it's not worth it when you're not getting along.
00:36:22
Speaker
I would say I definitely, I always try to look for people that can fill in my weak spots or my blind spots. You know, when I was putting this writer's room together for this Screen Aus funding, I just got, I specifically picked two writers who I knew, one that is very good with structure because structure is not my strongest suit.
00:36:40
Speaker
And then one who had worked in development for a very long time. So I knew that she would be able to like, just find story gaps that I might miss, you know, when,
00:36:51
Speaker
I might think of it as like, this is the story and this is the most important thing. And this is the most interesting thing. Whereas someone who's worked in development for a long time knows how to make sure a story is the most interesting, has as many fascinating elements.
00:37:03
Speaker
And so, yeah, I like to pick based on knowing who's going to be able to fill in, fill in my gaps because i don't want to work with people who have the exact same skills as, as me, because what's the,
00:37:17
Speaker
what's the point I want to yeah I want to be pushed and yeah yeah and you learn things from them they learn things from you it's kind of a mutually like you're all kind of growing together yeah absolutely yeah amazing well um thank you so much once again for uh joining me on the podcast uh it's been amazing chatting to yeah I've had a really good time this is lovely That was writer-director Monica Zanetti. Huge thanks to Monica for joining me on the podcast.
00:37:51
Speaker
This episode was produced and edited by myself with logo design by Shara Parsons and music by Seb Sebotaj-Gavrilovic. If you enjoyed listening, please hit that subscribe button and leave us a review. See you in a fortnight.