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Jungle Entertainment's Chloe Rickard and showrunner/writer Gretel Vella on making Stan series He Had it Coming
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We’re joined on Breaking Screen by screenwriter Gretel Vella and Jungle Entertainment’s Chloe Rickard, who both executive produced the new Stan original series He Had it Coming, which launches on November 20.
Throughout the podcast, Gretel and Chloe talk about the journey of He Had it Coming from horror feature to buddy comedy/murder mystery, their approach to writing – and selling – a half-hour comedy drama, tips for pitching a television series, the moments that got them to keep going in a tough industry, and much more.
He Had it Coming is an odd couple comedy-drama about two university students who are accidentally entangled in a murder mystery when their spontaneous feminist art activism is co-opted by a killer. Gretel co-created the series with Craig Anderson, with both serving as showrunners and writers.
Gretel’s television credits include three seasons of The Great; Class Of ’07 for Amazon Studios; the Stan TV movies A Sunburnt Christmas and Christmas Ransom, and Season 3 and 4 of Doctor Doctor for Easy Tiger and Channel Nine. Her own original series which she wrote, created and executive produced Totally Completely Fine premiered on Stan in April of 2023.
Jungle’s Chloe Rickard, meanwhile, is a Partner, Chief Operating Officer, and Executive Producer at Jungle Entertainment. She has executive produced and produced globally acclaimed series such as Good Cop Bad Cop, Population: 11, No Activity, A Moody Christmas and Wakefield.
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Transcript
Introduction and Acknowledgment
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to Breaking Screen, a podcast about the Australian screen industry and the creative people within it. I'm your host, Caris Bizzaca I'm recording this podcast from the lands of the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation, where I'm very grateful to be a visitor and be able to work on these lands.
00:00:19
Speaker
Always was, always will be.
Meet the Guests: Gretel Vela and Chloe Rickard
00:00:22
Speaker
Today's episode will feature screenwriter Gretel Vella and Jungle Entertainment's Chloe Rickard, who both executive produced Stan's new original series, He Had It Coming.
00:00:33
Speaker
But before we get to that chat, here's some news from the Australian screen industry.
Local Content Obligations for Streaming Services
00:00:38
Speaker
Arts Minister Tony Burke tabled the government's proposed local content obligations for streaming services in Parliament on November 13.
00:00:47
Speaker
The legislation requires services with more than 1 million subscribers to commit 10% of their total program expenditure for Australia, or 7.5% of their revenue, on new Australian drama, children's, documentary, arts and educational programs.
SBS's Call for Factual Series Ideas
00:01:05
Speaker
In other news, SBS is calling on Australian factual producers to help them in their hunt for the next landmark SBS series. They're looking for bold, thought-provoking and innovative new factual series ideas that challenge beliefs, provoke national conversations and trigger transformation.
00:01:23
Speaker
The SBS factual commissioning team will provide up to $50,000 in development funding for those standout ideas that hold the potential to become must-see TV for broad audiences.
00:01:35
Speaker
particularly 35 to 55 year olds. Entries are now open and will close Friday 9th of February 2026. Check out the SBS website for more information.
00:01:47
Speaker
And that's your news wrap up, but remember to head over to any of the Australian trade publications for more. Now to the chat with today's guest.
Inside 'He Had It Coming'
00:01:55
Speaker
We're joined on breaking screen by screenwriter Gretel Vella and Jungle Entertainment's Chloe Rickard, who both executive produced the new Stan original series He Had It Coming, which launches on the streamer on November 20.
00:02:08
Speaker
Gretel co-created the series with Craig Anderson, with both serving as showrunners and writers. He Had it Coming is an odd couple comedy drama about two university students who are accidentally entangled in a murder mystery when their spontaneous feminist art activism is co-opted by a killer.
00:02:28
Speaker
Gretel's television credits include three seasons of The Great, Class of 07 for Amazon Studios, The Stan TV Movies a Sunburnt Christmas and Christmas Ransom, and season three and four of Doctor Doctor for Easy Tiger and Channel 9.
00:02:42
Speaker
Her own original series, which she wrote, created, and executive produced, Totally Completely Fine, premiered on Stan in April of 2023.
00:02:53
Speaker
Meanwhile, Chloe Rickard is a partner, chief operating officer and executive producer at Jungle Entertainment. She has executive produced and produced globally acclaimed series such as Good Cop, Bad Cop, Population 11, No Activity, A Moody Christmas and Wakefield.
Guests' Background and Roles
00:03:10
Speaker
Throughout the podcast, Gretel and Chloe talk about the journey of He Had It Coming from horror feature to buddy comedy murder mystery, their approach to writing and selling a half-hour comedy drama, tips for pitching a television series, the moments that got them to keep going in what can be a very tough industry, and much more.
00:03:30
Speaker
Here's that chat.
00:03:35
Speaker
If you could both tell me your name and your role in the industry. So Gretel, you first. um My name's Gretel Vella I'm a screenwriter. Great. And then Chloe. My name's Chloe Rickard. I'm from Jungle Entertainment. I'm an executive producer and partner at Jungle.
00:03:51
Speaker
And so we always start this podcast with talking about inciting incidents because, you know, in screenwriting we talk about inciting incidents all the time. But in terms of your career, what would you say was the inciting incident for your career? So Gretel, you first. Oh, that's a tricky one.
00:04:10
Speaker
I think I always knew i wanted to do something in the arts, but I wasn't exactly sure what. And then I went to UTS and I did an undergrad degree and i made a short film and I wrote and directed it. And I thought maybe I was going to be a director, but then the part I enjoyed the most was writing it.
00:04:29
Speaker
And I think the thing people like the most about the film was the writing. And so, yeah from then on that kind of set my path and, I applied for a master's in writing at NIDA and that was what I wanted to do.
00:04:41
Speaker
and then Chloe, yourself, what would you be your inciting incident? I'm going to go way back. I actually grew up ah in the country without a television and we moved to a town and we were about six doors up from a movie theater.
00:04:57
Speaker
um It was a really small sort of 38-seater movie theater. And i think from then on, I became obsessed with the idea of the screen as a storytelling tool and a window to the world.
00:05:10
Speaker
Oh, amazing. Yeah, love that. And um so you you have a new series on Stan. He had it coming. Eight by half hour series. It's launching on November 20.
00:05:22
Speaker
Gretel, what is he had it coming about?
Plot Overview and Creative Process
00:05:27
Speaker
So he had it coming follows two college students, Barbara and Elise, and we meet them on a day they're very fed up with the men in their lives.
00:05:36
Speaker
So they decide to make the Kill All Men art project, which is basically just kind of sneaking out into the university's quadrangle in the middle of the night and decorating it with silly string and writing Kill All Men everywhere.
00:05:47
Speaker
So the girls um go to bed thinking that's the end of it. And then in the morning, they wake to news that the university staff football player has been murdered, castrated and dumped in the middle of their political statement.
00:06:00
Speaker
So the show is really about them finding this murderer, but also the murder of this man kind of sparks this reverse Me Too movement on campus and the men are really upset about what's happened. So the girls are also trying to control this gender riot happening at the same time.
00:06:17
Speaker
Yeah, wow. And it's also yeah it's also like, I thought, um you know, tonally, it kind of has like, um yes, there is a murder and there's a murder mystery, but there's also this buddy comedy um at the heart of it.
00:06:31
Speaker
And from what I understand, it started as a horror movie concept. So how do you go from horror film to that kind of buddy comedy, murder mystery TV series?
00:06:44
Speaker
Well, this has been, i think, seven years in development. And yes, it started as a horror film. And I think we got to a scene break down stage. And then we kind of shared it with a few people. And obviously the themes and ideas are a lot and quite dark. And I think coupled with the horror, people were reading it and saying to us, I don't want to see this movie.
00:07:05
Speaker
It's too much and it's too dark. So One of the great things, though, that had come out of that is that we'd spoken to a lot of women about their experiences on campus. And, you know, they'd been through some really horrific things, but they dealt with it with such humor and camaraderie.
00:07:21
Speaker
And so we kind of felt like maybe that was a better way to tell the story. And also myself and my co-writer felt like really bad feminists who had no idea a lot of this stuff was happening. And so we thought, why don't we enter this world with two women hopeless women who have no idea about any of this stuff. And so that's how kind of the comedy, ah buddy comedy thing was born.
00:07:43
Speaker
Yeah. And um so Chloe, you then pitched the series at Jungle Entertainment. What do you remember about that pitch and why it grabbed your attention? ah Firstly, the voice. Like Gretel's got such an amazing grasp of ah being able to walk the line between humour and darker subjects and and she did that so beautifully in the pilot with her co-writer.
00:08:06
Speaker
But secondly, I was like quite obsessed with the fact that this was a closed world. sort of reminded me a little bit of Only Murders in the Building in that he had it coming. It's like a university campus and everything is sort of contained within the campus, the friendship, the politics, the murders.
00:08:25
Speaker
It's in this like microcosm, which to me really amped up not only the stakes, but it almost put a massive magnifying glass on things that would otherwise be smaller or, you know, you would notice in daily life, but pass it by. And I feel like this microcosm really allowed us to dig into humour, friendship, life on campus, murder, you know, politics in such a fun kind of chaotic way that yeah that's what I loved.
00:08:52
Speaker
And do you then take that you know you hear the pitch you're like definitely we love this do you then take that concept to Stan? Yeah I think so I think we did a a really small bit of development and put a pitch deck together to accompany the pilot and then we actually we always saw this because there's an English element in it ah one of the students ah in the buddy comedy is an English exchange student So we talked to a lot of English partners um quite early on and felt confident that there was a market in Australia, but also outside of that, in particular, the UK.
00:09:27
Speaker
So we actually did that piece of work first and then we came back to Stan and we had sort of evidence that we were able to finance it beyond just the Australian market. So I think the combination of the amazing script and the team plus the market traction internationally was a knockout of the park for Stan.
00:09:43
Speaker
o And Gretel, so with that pitch, like what, um when you're pitching that to Jungle Entertainment, like what materials do you have for that pitch? um And do you have any tips for anyone that is going into a pitch like that?
Advice on Pitching and Collaboration
00:09:58
Speaker
When I'm pitching to Jungle? Yeah, when you pitched um this series to Jungle. Yeah. What materials did you have? We had, I think from memory, I think we just had the pilot and maybe a one pager.
00:10:13
Speaker
My advice would be, I guess, if you can write a pilot, always do because I think, and maybe Chloe, you can speak to this as well. I feel like it's one thing to write down what what your dreams are for the show, but to really be able to show someone how a typical episode of the show would operate is like the most useful thing that you can do.
00:10:33
Speaker
And then with the one pager, I would say, obviously have a clear idea of the show, but also leave it a little bit open. I feel like it's... And I think there's maybe a misconception that you need to have everything figured out. But I think with your production company, it's very much a collaboration and you're working together to work out what the best version of this show is and the most pitchable version.
00:10:56
Speaker
So have a clear vision, but be open, I would say. ah And Chloe, did you want to add anything to that in terms of like, yeah, what what but makes a good pitch in your eyes?
00:11:08
Speaker
Yeah, I would second what Gretel says about the pilot because I think to me that is the strongest document to communicate the vision for the show. And I also think like the pilot doesn't have to be perfect either so long as it's got a voice and, you know, it's got something to say.
00:11:24
Speaker
ah feel like the structure and the polish can be reworked together. But I, you know, I would always reach for something incredibly original and understanding its genre and form.
00:11:34
Speaker
After that, really, i think, The success of a show rides a lot on the relationships that then form within it.
Producing and Writing Challenges
00:11:42
Speaker
So I think just having a really good relationship at the centre because you have to, one, it's a long relationship, as Gretel said, seven years in the making, but two, sometimes you make mistakes along the way and you have to backtrack and go again.
00:11:57
Speaker
Maybe sometimes, you know, the notes have spun something off in a wrong direction and, you you know, you need to retrace and find the original vision or maybe sometimes, you know, you haven't pushed hard enough. You know, I think that balance, it's all relationship based.
00:12:11
Speaker
So I think finding um a good way to communicate through all of that's like one of the key kind of first steps. Yeah, definitely. And um so then when it comes to the actual, you know, writing of the series, Gretel, so you co-wrote four episodes with Craig Anderson.
00:12:28
Speaker
Yes. And, you know, this is in that kind of half hour comedy drama space. It's a format that you worked in before, you know, you your series, ah Totally and Completely Fine, but also like work on Class of 07. What do you like about writing for the TV half hour?
00:12:46
Speaker
This was actually, I mean, I'd done class 07, but TCF was actually 45. forty five So this was my first time plotting a half hour. Yeah. And I think in the beginning, took me a while to get in the swing of that because I think you ah overestimate how much story you can fit in a half hour. I mean, you can still tell a lot of story, but I think what we found is we went to script and we're like, oh my God, we're doing way too much. We need to pull it back.
00:13:11
Speaker
in i I think the half hour is, it's just, a it's a lot of fun. i don't know. it's um I think there's an art to it.
00:13:24
Speaker
And that was really fun to learn. Because I think you can tell a sophisticated story. It just takes a little bit more wrangling. And of course, I think too, like when you get to the edit, Cutting a half hour, you like it's so fast.
00:13:37
Speaker
You can quickly watch. i When I got to the edit, I was in shock because TCS, obviously, when you sit down, you've got to prepare for an hour, but it's just a very different experience. But yeah, I love doing it.
00:13:48
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. and I find as a viewer, half hours are really bingeable because, you know, you're the time committing, you're like, oh I could just watch one more. I'll just watch one more. And then you've watched the equivalent of like a movie, but you've, you've kind of gone through half of a television series in that space of time.
00:14:04
Speaker
Um, But ah Chloe, you've produced, you know, many half hours um and you also manage Jungles international format sales. You know, no activity is ah Australia's best selling format of the 21st century. As far as I understand, do you think that there continues to be appetite for half hours internationally? And, you know, is it better if they're packaged in the eight episode format similar to like no activity and also he had it coming?
Global Market and Tone Maintenance
00:14:32
Speaker
Yeah, great question. I think the journey for an Australian half hour has certainly changed um over my career and I think it will continue to change. You know, the introduction trend of a few years ago now is the idea of sort of like a dramatic comedy, dramedy if you call it Prior to that, it was sort of like hard comedies or family-based comedies.
00:14:52
Speaker
But what I love about He Had It Coming is it's actually, I think we ended up 22 and a half minute episodes and the pace is incredible. It's just such a fun romp. And I think there's a skill actually, as Gretel said, not only writing for that, but cutting for that pace.
00:15:08
Speaker
um and keeping the audience kind of like up and on the edge of their seats and like always wanting more. So um I personally love like a really short half hour, especially for this genre.
00:15:19
Speaker
But um in terms of Australian comedy, I think like Colin from Accounts was such a wonder story. I think No Activity has been such a wonder story as well, but for different ways, like Colin travelled, whereas No Activity has been remade as a format in different territories.
00:15:35
Speaker
So I think there's so many ways to splice dice a half hour. I think it's all about having a clear sort of vision at the start and setting up something for success. So I think definitely he had it coming, I think can travel, but I also think it's such a great repeatable format as well. I think the idea of two buddies on campus, I can see that being reimagined in many different contexts.
00:15:58
Speaker
And another thing I find with, you know, a show like He Had a Coming is getting that tonal balance, right? seems to be, you know, the the the tricky part it comes to, you know, casting or or editing and the writing itself. um I'm wondering, Gretel, with, you know, the vision that you had for the series,
00:16:20
Speaker
Um, what were some of the ways that you really tried to get that tone right and keep it consistent throughout? Yeah. Was it casting editing? Is it the writing? What, what do you kind of feel like contribute to that tone?
00:16:34
Speaker
I mean, I think it definitely starts with the writing and I think um you're you're constantly like trying things out, I think, because, you know, you hand in drafts and you're like, it's okay to make jokes about these things but not these things and then you have your producers and Stan there, of course, to be like – this is not a funny joke. This is a funny joke to help you find the balance. And then you're fine. I think with casting too, obviously you're casting for the tone, but then actors bring completely new things that you didn't even think about when they get to set and directors. I think it's like up until the last day of shoot, you're finding and refining the tone. And then again, in the edit with the editor and their interpretation of it.
00:17:16
Speaker
So i think it's, Yeah, it's a constant um juggle as you go through to get that special tone. But it definitely starts, I think, at the pitch and at script level and showing people your version of the world and what you think it feels like.
00:17:32
Speaker
And um Chloe, you mentioned earlier that one of the things that you loved about the pitch was this kind of contained world. And so the location itself that you filmed at feels significant to that, being in that kind of contained world.
Filming Location's Impact
00:17:48
Speaker
Can you talk a little bit to that, where you actually filmed?
00:17:51
Speaker
Yeah, so although the show is set on a university campus, we filmed in ah an old women's prison, so Parramatta Women's Prison, which was a fantastic studio-esque kind of backlot set. A lot of the show is is shot there and it's such a ah brilliant yeah location and Parramatta Council was so great to work with as well. But um what we also found very humbling is the site itself has like a very dark history in terms of its history and with its treatment to women and women prisoners in particular so we sort of felt quite honoured and privileged to be telling this female empowerment story on that same site so a lot of people on the cast and crew said they could feel the eeriness of being on the site but also you know hugely excited that we could be bringing a new story to this place
00:18:38
Speaker
oh Did you feel that too, Gretel? Did you feel the kind of eeriness on the set? A hundred percent. Yes. Yes. It just had, um yeah, a strange air about it.
00:18:50
Speaker
But yeah as Chloe said, I think it felt really special to be telling this kind of story there. Yeah. Oh, great. ah The other question I just wanted to ask was a general advice
Advice for Industry Newcomers
00:19:00
Speaker
question. You know, any producers listening, any writers listening, what would be a piece of advice that you would give them?
00:19:06
Speaker
Chloe, do you want to go first? Yeah, I'm going to go to casting. I think it's such a beautiful process, casting. It's endless in terms of possibilities, but I think really working together with your writers and producers to really like be specific about what you're looking for, and I think that's a tonal North Star, and then really, really work hard to to mine, i guess, the right personality and the right tonal fit for what your vision is.
00:19:36
Speaker
I find it such a fun romp, you know, meeting all these wonderful actors and, you know, working together to to find out what the secret sauce is. But I really genuinely love actors and I think they elevate stories from the page to real life.
00:19:51
Speaker
So, yeah I would say, like, zoom in on the casting process and really have fun with it. Brilliant. Gretel? would say, I guess this a piece of advice for when you're first starting out.
00:20:03
Speaker
i would because I think I had a tendency to, in the very beginning to be like, oh, I shouldn't show anyone these scripts. You know, like I'm afraid of what they'll think, but also what if someone's still with my idea, et cetera. But I think like you need to embrace all the opportunities that are out there, show your writing to everybody.
00:20:22
Speaker
I entered a lot of random competitions that ended up, ah i one of them ended up in a sunburnt Christmas, the Christmas movie I had on stand. So I think just, you know, being keen, being out there, sending your scripts to people.
00:20:35
Speaker
Yeah. Great advice from both of you. Thank you so much. um The final segment is, it's called Pay It Forward. So um I'm going to give you a question from a previous guest.
00:20:47
Speaker
And then if you could also have a little think about a question that you could ask for our next guest, that would be great. So the question that I have is from Ryan Van Dyke, who's one of the creators and writers of a fellow Stan series watching you.
00:21:02
Speaker
um So his question is, Yeah, I think ah we all know that this is like a really punishing industry and it can be really demoralizing. And in terms of giving a bit of encouragement to other people, I guess, was there a point at which you were going to call it quits or that you had a particularly sort of dark moment?
00:21:20
Speaker
And what was it that turned you around? It might've been a piece of advice. It might've been a mental shift. It might've been a source of inspiration from a film, whatever it may be, but what's the thing that kind of picked you up off the ground and and got you to keep going in the in the industry and in the in the craft?
00:21:35
Speaker
Chloe, you first. um Unfortunately, i have to say there are a lot of dark moments a lot in a career, um some in your control and many out of your control.
00:21:48
Speaker
So I think that's just the reality of of ah combining creativity with business and a whole lot of people from different walks of life. what has kept me going in the end it's all about the people in the stories I think we are such a lucky industry to be playing you know in a space where we can create and tell and retell stories and we can collaborate and talk and I get I get tingles every time I kind of connect with such brilliant minds I'm obsessed with how amazing people are and how
00:22:20
Speaker
you know endless creativity is in terms of, it's not endless, obviously you can have writer's block and all all that sort of stuff, but I just think creativity is part of the human spirit and that constant connection with people and reminder about what the human spirit is so great at is what keeps me going.
00:22:36
Speaker
Chloe, that's a beautiful answer. i think My, I think I had a lot of wobbles. This is going way back. This is when I was doing my master's.
00:22:49
Speaker
i just I don't know why I had such a crisis of confidence. I think when you're first starting out too, I was afraid to call myself a rider. I wasn't sure if I had the goods to back it up.
00:23:02
Speaker
And then I think it was, I was about to drop out of the course actually. And then I got put in a writer's room as a note taker. And that's where I met Tony McNamara, who is the showrunner for The Great and who I've worked with a lot now.
00:23:17
Speaker
But um it was in that room that he read some of my stuff and was like, I think we're similar and um you should come and I'll mentor you. And that was kind of really what set me on the path for my career.
00:23:28
Speaker
But I was about to drop out. And then it was because of the generosity of somebody that I was able to see that I had something that um meant I should keep going. So I think that there are actually so many generous people in the Australian industry who really go out of their way to help you.
00:23:46
Speaker
So I think if you can just, um you know, keep writing and keep producing, people will see your gifts and help you on your path too. Yeah, they're both really beautiful answers. Thank you so much. um I will leave it there. But yeah, thank you again for joining me on the podcast and congratulations on He Had It Coming.
00:24:05
Speaker
Thank you so much. Thank you.
00:24:10
Speaker
That was Gretel Vella and Chloe Rickard. A huge thanks to them for chatting on the podcast. And remember, you can check out He Had It Coming on stand from November 20th. This episode was produced and edited by myself with logo design by Shara Parsons and music by Seb Sebotaj-Gavrilovic. If you enjoyed listening, please hit that subscribe button and leave us a review. See you in a fortnight.