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EP. 135 Banned Books, Life and Samira Ahmed
17 Plays1 day ago
Samira Ahmed discusses her new book, This Book Won't Burn, which explores family life and the alarming issue of book bans in America.
In this episode, Ahmed dives into the importance of storytelling and the challenges faced by diverse voices in today's literary world. She reflects on her experiences growing up in a multicultural family and how those experiences shaped her writing.
Listeners can expect a thoughtful conversation about the intersection of literature, identity, and advocacy, along with personal insights on navigating the complexities of family dynamics in a changing world.
Website: https://samiraahmed.com/
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
Alright, welcome back everyone to another episode if it's personal and I'll say it again I say it on every episode I am very selfishly I can invite whoever I want to because it's like my podcast but I'm always excited but I'm extremely excited today because we've been trying to do this for a while and I just found out that my girl's been going through it so I appreciate her so much and I'm going to allow her to introduce herself Hi, everyone. This is Samira Ahmed. Yes, I've been going through some things, but all good, all good. And I'm just happy to be here chatting with you, Gary. No, I appreciate you ah so much. And I have so much to ask you just because I admire both my wife and I admire so much of what you do as an educator, as a writer.
00:00:53
Speaker
as a mom, as a sister, as all the things. We appreciate you in this household so much. Thank you. Before anything, I'm sending you all the flowers right now because youre you and your sister are two people that we speak highly of and appreciate in this world. so yeah Thank you for all the things. She's good. She's a keeper. Yes.
00:01:13
Speaker
and She is she is so I'll start by Asking you like just how are things going right now? We talked about a little bit before we came on um It's good to see you, but how are things going in general right now for you? Good good. Well, I just had a book that came out this book won't burn So then I was on tour and while it's it's always like exciting and fun to meet readers. I mean, it's so cool and But it's also kind of exhausting and it's not like sometimes people like When I first went on tour in 2018 for my first novel, um Love, Hate, and Other Filters, it like you know I didn't know what tour was going to be like and whatever. And then people who were not in publishing, like my friends who were just non-publishing people, it was sort of
00:01:57
Speaker
I think they sort of glamorized it. They're like, wow, you're going to like, you're going to do events in like Chicago and New York and LA and like Atlanta and like whatever. And I was like, yeah, but it's not like, it's not like a rock star tour. yeah Not like, okay, I am like Springsteen or Beyonce or, you know, it's not like something like that. but you know, it's definitely a lot more low key. There's no wild night partying. You're basically after the bookstore event, you're like, I'm just tired now. So I'm gonna go make some herbal tea and order room service. It's so true. like yeah But it's, you know, and then you're like,
00:02:34
Speaker
But it's also the coolest part of it is is meeting readers. So that was really fun. And on my tours, I started doing this one in tournament. And then there was like this big thing called the pandemic that prevented me from going on on doing a lot of tours. But I actually try to I take with me like my own copy of the book, like the first hardcover that I get. And I have everyone who comes to any events so or, you know, like festivals. Sign the book.
00:03:01
Speaker
i my yeah I love that idea. Like so, so great. There's a picture of it on my Insta if people want to go look, but it's like my sort of my souvenir of the of the book tour. And it's actually awesome because people like some people sign it like it's a yearbook and they're like, have a cool summer.
00:03:22
Speaker
But then other people will just I mean, some people just like sign it, which is cool. And then some people are like, I'm going to find my favorite number. And they' I'm like, sign it wherever you want. And so then I have this hardcover. So it's of this book won't burn. And there's people who signed it all over and then you can flip through it. And then there's a surprise like page 72. And some kid will circle and there'll be like, this is my favorite number or this is my jersey number or no. Then i will I also had a bunch of librarian sign up when I was at the Texas Library Association. And it was like so because they were coming in my signing line. And one of them was like, no one's ever asked me for my autograph before.
00:03:57
Speaker
And so I love that idea of like, well, u s you know, I'm signing a book for you, so you sign a book for me. And then I get to keep it as like a memento or souvenir. And there's like lots of cool messages in there, you know, and it's from like kids from like every age. Like, I mean, I was just at the American Writers Festival last weekend in Chicago and there was a kid who came to my event and I think she was like,
00:04:23
Speaker
twelve or thirteen so she drew like a little bunny like inside anything but very cute very cute so that's like that is also a great reminder because like you know publishing can be exhausting it's like it's a tough industry But having those little mementos is is an awesome reminder of like, okay, this is why I'm doing it for the readers. That's such a great idea. Cause then like, you'll never forget that little girl with the buddies. yeah great Yeah. It's really, it's just, yeah, it's really cute. I'll never forget her. I won't forget like, you know, this librarian who was like, Oh my gosh, you're asking me for my autograph. There's like so many nice little messages.
00:05:08
Speaker
that readers wrote to me. And then I also get my other like my colleagues, my fellow authors to sign it, which is also fun and the best is like when you get like an illustrator. And then, you know, when they also like because I love when people put little illustrations and they're like this little girl and her bunny. It's anyway, yeah, so highly recommend for everyone to do that, because it's really fun. No, I thought that is awesome. And I'm assuming the tour went well. Yeah, I mean, it was really great.
00:05:37
Speaker
And, you know, it's publishing, sending fewer and fewer people on book tour. So I feel like it's a privilege to be able to go because a lot of times now it's like the really, you know, like the ginormous authors, like the authors who sell like hundreds of thousands of books and stuff like that. So being able to um still have my publisher support me so I can go on you know, to some events is great. And I, I was at Books of Wonder in New York, which is, uh, which was like also where I launched, I've done like three launches there. And so that's always kind of, it's always sort of nice to go back and, you know, the booksellers are still there and, yeah and you know, your friends come out in,
00:06:23
Speaker
I did one in St. Paul, Minnesota, and I didn't really know anyone in St. Paul. so i was like Hopefully some people come up with the cool thing about that was we arranged it so that two eighth graders, two boys, read my book, and then they were the ones who like who were my interlocutors. I like that. I like that. It was so great. and You know, eighth graders are They just will ask you anything. And kids are awesome because they don't have like those filters that adults do. And they're not like, embarrassed about things in the world. I mean, kids get embarrassed, but not about they usually get embarrassed because of their parents. Like, yeah, yes totally, totally. yeah' embarrassedment Like cringy stuff. But so this so this book won't burn is about
00:07:11
Speaker
about book banning and censorship. And um it's set in this small town. And, you know, there's like a really terrible school board president who's like leading this charge of book banning and a group of like parents who are, you know, trying to ban like all the queer and BIPOC books and a terrible principal, too. And so this this eighth grade boy and he's remember he's in St. Paul. So he's in a pretty liberal area. He's like definite in a blue dot. So he says,
00:07:38
Speaker
How did you create this town and this school that's just so terrible? It like hey was just like, man, I can't believe you did this. And then I had to unfortunately burst his bubble and say, well, everything I wrote about in this book are actually things that I took from real life events. And so unfortunately, there are some really terrible um you know school board members and principals and whatnot. so um Yeah, so it was like I based on reality and he was like mind blown because you know, but also it's also great because I love that he thought it was so fantastical almost. That's showing that, you know, people are are the adults in that community. That means they're trying to do the right thing. And what was so good is his English teacher came to
00:08:30
Speaker
Oh fun. And also a librarian from that school. so And of course I was like, okay, give this give these kids extra credit. Yes, yes, yes. And it's so funny because like, I wasn't originally going to talk about the book first. But like, sometimes we're talking about this, like, just let's let's just dive in. You want as I'm reading and me and my wife learn and talk me andder and talk about this all the time. You are so much about the culture, like the books that you write are so much about the kids in the world and the things that are happening now. And as I was reading this book, as I was reading this book, I could not stop.
00:09:06
Speaker
writing notes, listening to all of the connections to the real world. And one of the things I loved was the mother and daughter relationship, the ups and downs, the way that you were able to like ah if For those of you who haven't read it, I'm going to let you talk a little bit about the development of that because there were some really hard moments in the story where Nor and her mom were like duking it out. and there are moments when i there I can't remember the exact line where the mom was like, I think there was it was when
00:09:41
Speaker
the dad had come to the house and was talking to them and she kind of stepped back and she said, you know, so something along the lines of like, sometimes you have to be quiet or step down for another reason. And I was like, wow, like for you to do that in front of your daughter who is like, you know, all about the culture and the people. And at the same time, knowing that internally you want to say something, but right now isn't the moment like that is,
00:10:08
Speaker
That was such a powerful scene for me, like visually. Tell me about the relationship and tell me how you created that. Yeah. So, so nor is my main character and she's basically reeling from this trauma, which is the father, her father has abandoned their family and kind of completely shocking everybody because it seemed to be going great. Like they're doing family dinners. They got pizza night. They got like all the things going on. And then he's just like, I can't do this anymore.
00:10:36
Speaker
and leaves a note and basically just leaves the family. And this is actually a thing called wife abandonment syndrome. It's like an actual. And I read so many sad stories about it. And so I was like, you know what, I want to write about this. I had. A friend who had gone through something similar and I talked to her about it and got sort of permission to tell a little bit of that story.
00:11:03
Speaker
And so then Nour's mom completely, Nour's mom was normally this kind of outgoing person completely goes inside herself, like depressed. Different person. Completely. And right everyone has a different response to trauma. who who The mom ups and like moves the kids.
00:11:26
Speaker
out of Chicago, the town they love, because she just is like, everywhere I go, there's like a memory of my husband and dad and I can't see, she takes a job in a small town. And when Nora gets there, like the library is like her one hangout place, like in her school, she and her friends would go there, like after lunch, they would go chill, they would do their homework. ah A lot of kids use the library that way. yeah yeah It's a place where I got books, but it's a place where all kids should be welcomed. The library she goes to in her new school,
00:11:55
Speaker
she sees 500 books getting pulled yeah from bookshelves. And she's like, I just want to keep my head down and get through a senior year. and She also was kind of a firebrand. And she's like, I just can't keep my mouth shut about this. Yeah. Yeah. That's when she starts to really, really butt heads with her mom. Mm hmm. Because Nora has a little sister and she ma and she also takes over for She almost takes on a parental role, yeah taking care of her sister because the mom is just so absent.
00:12:31
Speaker
who But then as North starts getting attention for like trying to stand up to this bully of a principal and a terrible like MAGA school board president and stuff, the mom is like, you've got to chill, honey, because i know
00:12:50
Speaker
we don't wanna attract this kind of bad attention. And Nora's like, no, what happened to you? this is You were the one who took me to my first protest and all this yeah stuff. But the mom is just like, can't deal with it. And then like the terrible school board member comes and he does this thing we call Midwestern Nice. oh He comes and is like, I'm welcoming you to the town where we know that you have the same values as us. you know Midwestern nice for people who aren't from the Midwest is basically a very nice way to cast aspersions, microaggressions, to essentially low-key threaten somebody, but you do it with like a smile on your face. like you You wrote that to perfection. Well, I'm a Midwesterner, so I totally get it.
00:13:40
Speaker
And so Nour comes upon them, like, well, she's coming up from school and she sees the school board member and he's ah this kind of large man who's like kind of bullying the mom, but in this Midwestern nice way. And Nour's like, why the heck didn't you say anything? And like and her mom's like, sometimes her mom basically says like, sometimes you have to pick the time to fight. Sometimes you have to be quiet. yes And Nora doesn't really understand that, because Nora's like this young like activist, and you know she's got a lot of outrage. he And what she's sort of learning from her mom a little bit, even though her mom is also messed up, who is that sometimes you have to lead in your mind with outcome instead of outrage. Yes.
00:14:28
Speaker
Outrage is obviously a motivating factor. I'm personally a fan of rage. But at the same time, if you're trying to accomplish something, sometimes you got to just take a step back and breathe. But also, Noor's mom is in the position of still being the adult. And her, as a parent, your number one is protect your kids. Yeah, that's what she's trying. And that's what she's really trying to do. She's trying to make sure that Nora and her sister are okay. there That's what she really wants to do. And I mean, you you did such a great job of building their relationship and you know showing so many like nuances within the family dynamics and then having them in school. I just really appreciated how much time the story spent having them having conversation. I thought that was
00:15:21
Speaker
I enjoyed it a lot. you it that parent The parental relationship was one that I actually had to work on and I did revisions on. So thank you for saying that because I wanted to make sure... I mean, first of all, ah for people who don't know, I'm Indian American, I'm Muslim, like a kid of immigrants.
00:15:40
Speaker
and And I think a lot of like actually BIPOC authors or BIPOC individuals who aren't even immigrants necessarily can understand this, but your parents play a role in your life, whether you want to or want them to or not. yep um And a lot of YA has absent parents. I mean, obviously the dad is a band on the family, so he's absent, but the parents, a lot of the parents in my books are kind of like in the business of the kids.
00:16:11
Speaker
who Cause that's like realistic, like, I think I have like multiple books where there's like these scenes where the kid is like, the door is shut and the parent like kind of just walks in or kind of will do like this half knock and walk in at the same time. yeah And you kids are like, what? You didn't knock like what? The mom's like, or the dad is like, why do you need privacy? What are you trying to hide from us? This is our home. like I was like, that, that obviously is something I could relate to. Yeah. Yeah. And you, you talk about, I mean, this is so interesting because we, we talk about the mom and how there was a moment where she said, sometimes you have to be quiet. My question for you is like, and again, within
00:16:54
Speaker
say all of your books like you're not quiet you are constantly pushing the needle sharing information that I think like these books are gonna go down in history for like texts where you can really go back and look at what was happening then and what effect it has on the future so what are what are the reasons that make you what makes you go what makes you continue to go So I love writing. So right now, obviously, the big thing in YA, like, if you look at the best seller list, it's like mostly fantasies. So yeah I'm not doing myself any like career favors. But I mean, and i I read fantasy too, and I love it. I think there's, you know, it's important for a lot of kids. um But for me,
00:17:39
Speaker
contemporary is really important to write. And I know those kids who are picking that book up and why they need it. And I always say that I am motivated to write contemporary because I like to write the world as it is so we could imagine the world as it could be. like Books are right. We know that books are like their own world, their portals to your different worlds. They should be sparking your curiosity. They should be making you ask questions. Sometimes they should be making you uncomfortable. And all of my books, I know part of the reason some of my books get banned.
00:18:15
Speaker
is because some folks are not comfortable with what's in the books. And I don't mean like ah sex, because there's not in my there's none of that in my books, but people don't like to feel uncomfortable when I talk about, say, racism or psalmophobia or homophobia or
00:18:36
Speaker
you know, it makes them have so much discomfort. And I'm always like, well, OK. And it's usually the adults who are the ones who are uncomfortable. I'm like, just deal with it because this is just a fictional kid in a book. Imagine the actual discomfort that a human being is feeling. A kid who's experiencing. Any of these prejudices or, you know, this trauma of the dad leaving the family like your discomfort. Mm hmm.
00:19:05
Speaker
If you are so, like cannot stand a moment of that, then understand like still how privileged you are. You're like, I'm uncomfortable because of reading a book yeah versus the many kids and many of us who have to, who are uncomfortable or who feel that discomfort in our daily life just like by walking on the damn sidewalk. Yes, yes. I mean, I said this to this, this woman who came to one of my readings and she was actually,
00:19:35
Speaker
She was a very well-intentioned, like, Midwestern mom, like a middle-aged white woman. who I'm sure she voted for Democrats. She voted for Barack Obama, for sure. She was sort of asking her the book and I said she was asking me sort of about why I was picking some of these topics and like whatever. And I was like, I didn't even really answer the question. I just said, you know what? Sometimes in my life, I wonder what it would be like to walk down the street as a white woman. And I said,
00:20:10
Speaker
just with regular problems. Like, maybe my problems are like, damn, I couldn't afford the groceries that I wanted. Maybe my problems are like, you know, my kid is getting in trouble at school. Maybe my problems are like, I can't quite afford the mortgage or you know, I have a difficult relationship with my parents or something's happening with my partner, like the regular person problems. I was like, because I completely get that you have those person that I don't know. But what you don't have is all the extra, all the other stuff. and And she came up to me afterwards and she said, I am never gonna, she's like, I never had anyone say that to me. And I never thought about it in that way. And
00:20:58
Speaker
She was obviously uncomfortable with it, but what I really appreciated about her is that she was like, I accept this as a question, or as a statement that you make that I've never had to confront, or I've never been asked before, like, can you imagine what it would be like to walk down the street as me? She obviously can't, nor can I imagine what it would be like to walk down the street as her, and she's like, I'm not gonna forget that because, yeah, it's so much easier for me to walk down the street then.
00:21:27
Speaker
wow And I loved that she was open to it. And so that is a great example of someone who was uncomfortable, who but also had enough, I don't know if it's like, I guess it's almost like self-confidence to understand where I was coming from and why Maybe her discomfort was okay and it was fine that I put that proposition out there. Like I wonder what it would be like to walk down the street as a white woman. yeah Like some people might find that very provocative and get upset. And she took it as, whoa, this gives me something to think about. wow that's like my I think that was great for her to actually take it in that way.
00:22:19
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I think so too and brave like she didn't have to she could have cried We all have had that I'm so sorry yeah, you know it makes me think about Nora's situation how she had so many ups and downs in the story and how she had to face a lot of white people and I think about the party that she went to and like goodness gracious like there are so there are so many moments that I was like I like i remember these moments like you go in you're scanning the room you're looking around
00:23:00
Speaker
the only one exedit you're the only one and i i remember this quote and i so literally stopped and i messaged her right away where i think uh was it james i think she told james you have uh proud boy written all over you and i lost it i cant i chris I was on the forlore on the floor. But I say that because I love that Nora was able to navigate those situations quickly and stand on her own too. Because oftentimes, at least speaking for myself,
00:23:37
Speaker
I was unable to do that when I was younger because you're just scared. You just don't know what's going to happen in those situations. So you leave, you exit, you don't come back, etc. But I really enjoyed how she was able to bite back. I really, really enjoyed that. Yeah, but I mean, I think that's...
00:23:56
Speaker
you know she's scared but she's acting out of her fear too but I mean she also had like in that moment like that's actually a I'm so glad that you brought up that scene because if you as a black man were entering that scene it would be a completely different situation totally that would have been a time where Nora's mom would be telling you sometimes it's time to be quiet because we could have gotten in much more trouble in that situation than Noor because Noor entered that scene like it was like after school like it was an evening scene like but she enters it with a white boy they're with her and you know she's also she's South Asian no and she's not black and that's it people have to understand the sort of different kinds of privilege that come
00:24:40
Speaker
you know, like people have to understand sort of like, I don't know, like how colorism works. But so she would enter that situation with a little more privilege than somebody say like a young black man entering that situation. He also had a ride there with a boy who ah who's problematic, but that she sort of liked. I mean, sometimes we like problematic kids. But he also was a one of the wealthier kids in the area. He liked. He was liked.
00:25:08
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, he was a popular kid. So she did have. Even if in her mind. She's not thinking of all those things, and you know, no teen is thinking of all those things. No, you're right. We still have those those things. And so for me as a writer, I can still write that scene.
00:25:31
Speaker
knowing that, yes, she's putting herself in a in an unsafe spot in a way, but she also has a way to get out of it. Would I have written that same thing if she was a young black girl? I don't know because I don't want to put a character in a situation That's not realistic unless I followed it up with her getting in, say, even more of a dangerous situation than Nora was in in that moment. Yeah. We're getting a call the cops. Yes. Like that. That would be the thing like the you know, the owner of like the store or whatever the ice cream plays they're at coming out and saying, like, what's this ruckus? I'm calling the cops like I probably would have added that to the scene. So I try to write it with the nuance of like
00:26:13
Speaker
the reality of how it is for different kids. But I do love that Nora is a spitfire. Like I wanted her to be that way because I've met kids like that and so have you, right? And that's why I think I was so attached to her as the protagonist and just like, you know, I couldn't take my eyes off the page because I wanted to know how she was going to react to all these like ups and downs. I want to we can talk about the book the whole time because I'm just like so into it right now. But you have to talk to me about the prom situation and how that was just like, I mean, good gosh, like how do you you know what the inspiration what for that was because I am like an 80s kid. So I'm like aging myself right now. But so I.
00:26:59
Speaker
was, I jokingly called this book, I was like, with my 80s references, I was like, it's sort of like Footloose meets Pretty in Pink, but with book banning. And maybe that's why I loved it too, because like, I'm a, I was born in 88, but I'm such an 80s and 90s, like, that's where I am. So that might be one of the reasons why I also loved it. Because like the, so people in the original Footloose,
00:27:25
Speaker
with Kevin Bacon in that town, it was like a small town and people but probably don't remember this, but at the very beginning, they start talking about books that are being banned, like books that are being, but then it becomes about dancing. Because like watching Kevin Bacon just read a book would be so boring. And look um and then in So, yes, there's this pretty in pink moment where he asks the the boy asks her to prom, but then basically due to peer pressure backs out of this and she forces him. To ah like, say it is so intense. It is so intense. You will not let he basically ghost her and she will not let him ghost her. It was in the hallway, but.
00:28:13
Speaker
In that situation, I also had a couple friends that were close by because I wanted it, you know, because he had his like little posse, the proud boy posse. He had a couple friends who were close by, too, because I wanted it to also be, you know, there has to be some modicum of. In a school, there's going to be other people there, so I didn't want her to be totally alone in that situation, but she's yeah I mean, she's the part of her that's like me, I think, is like when I.
00:28:42
Speaker
When I get mad, I when I get like really mad, I cry. And so that makes me and it somehow makes me more rageful because then I'm like, damn it, I'm so mad right now. And then you made me cry on top of it. And now I'm gonna force you to admit it. like ah know I making this situation so it's so cringy, uncomfortable.
00:29:07
Speaker
But I'm just going to take you on that ride with me. like all you're You're like all in now. Yeah, exactly. I was like, now you can't back off. And her friends are the ones who kind of have to like get her to come out of the situation. Because sometimes you're like, OK, crap, ding. I'm just all in right now. Yeah. I i mean, i another scene. there's There's so many. There's so many scenes in this book that I was like, gosh. i I just fell in love with them like and then I mean there's so many but another one that stands out for me is the moment that Nora's in the kitchen and
00:29:41
Speaker
You know, it's not necessarily a relationship yet, but she's in the kitchen and they're cooking together. Oh, yes. costly hours Yes, there is kind of a love triangle. I love it. Oh, it's so well done. You talk about the spices and how they think. Oh, it's just so well done. and We're giving away the whole story. So if you're listening, we apologize. Well, I don't really apologize, but ah this is the whole story. We're telling you the whole story.
00:30:06
Speaker
ah Well, i I love trying to have food in my books because obviously for Indians, food is really important. And I mean, for so many people, food is like their love language, like I'm going to cook for you and.
00:30:23
Speaker
I mean, look, food in our cultures are just a way we can relate to each other. And if you go to any Indian's house, as you know, it smells like food. There's like yeah there's always going to be the smell of like kind of like fried onions, garlic, ginger is going to be in there. just coming like ah for There's, you know, if they're just making like misalachai, you know, there's going to be like cardamom floating around some fennel smells. And so that's like the smell of childhood to me. And I was like, yeah, I wanted to have this cooking scene. And also because I like that it was like the boy
00:30:59
Speaker
You know, he's like the only other like Muslim kid and she at first is like, no, it's like so, you know, if you're the only two, then people naturally like ship you just because like, well, you're the only two that are the same. And so like, yeah hey, you're brown. He's brown. geneva And so.
00:31:16
Speaker
noir does become friends with him, but they kind of she kind of is also like, no, I can't actually have am i having feelings for him. No, that's weird. Because if I've seen with him, what would the aunties say? And like, what would happen? And like all this, but it's just like the sweet moment of cooking. And it was also just like,
00:31:32
Speaker
a moment of like sort of tension relief too because she kind of needed it and he's also kind of taking care of her and he's never overtly like saying I'm into you or like whatever he's showing her in so many small ways like I care for you and I'm here for you and you are really a bad cook so I'm gonna Yes. I think you you did it in such a fun way. And I think i that is so true to the story. It gave her a break. it She was able to get her mind off of so many things that were happening. And then it also, for me as the reader, even though I was so like intentionally like looking for details, trying to find out what she was going to do next, it made me
00:32:19
Speaker
think about her differently as I was going through this. She was like, wow, she's she's human. She is so human that she also thinks about her dad. She also wants to potentially be in a relationship or maybe not be in a relationship, but all the things because of that scene. So I think, again, another scene really, really, really Well, I love those like kind of quiet domestic type scenes, I guess. um But it also gives a break to the reader because for you, like maybe there's like a lot of stuff happening. There's tension. You're like, what the heck's going to happen next? But almost live three dimensional lives. You know, we're not so even is this like budding young activist. You can't be an activist 24 seven. I mean, you got to eat. Yeah, you do. You do have to eat. That is so true.
00:33:05
Speaker
And you have other things, you know, sometimes it's funny because internment, which is my second novel, and it's like a near future speculative where Muslims are put into internment camps in a parallel. Which is one of Niren's favorite books, by the way. And she's read it with her, I think it was eighth graders, I think.
00:33:22
Speaker
talks about it all the time. she told me to remind She reminded me to tell you that she loves you, and she appreciates you, and it is one of her favorite books. So as you mentioned, it I have to tell you that. Yeah, she she know loves that book so much. So I was rubbing it in her face a little bit, that I'd read your next book before her. So she said, I don't want to talk about it. Okay, well, I'm sending all the love back. That's so sweet that she's reading with her with her students.
00:33:50
Speaker
And ah so in that book, so we have this character who is in a horrible situation, like it it literally in, you know, illegally incarcerated behind the barbed wires with her family. um And there's all these horrible things happening to her. But at the same time, she's thinking about her old high school and like her prom because she's a kid. And some people were like, oh, my God, how could she be thinking about such like you know, frivolous things when she's in a situation. I was like, because you would also be thinking about stuff like that too, because you're thinking like, he that boy I liked, he's not in here with me. Is he going to prom with someone else? Because our we're just humans and our minds go there. we cannot We're not one dimensional. And yes, you know what? Sometimes when we're going through the hardest crap, our mind goes to something that's like, damn, I really want a burger right now. You know, it could literally be,
00:34:47
Speaker
yeah that or I wonder what my prom dress would be like if I wasn't like in an internment camp and some some readers were mad about that and I was like guys. She's human. She's human. It's life like we all think of like in the most terrible, sad, who grief-stricken moments we have moments where we're thinking about other stuff, where we're hoping for something different, where you're wishing for something else, where you're having jealousy about something that's ridiculous. Yes, that's normal. That is life. Because we're just people. Yes, yes. That is that that is life. That is life. i I always ask this question at the beginning, but I want to ask now. So tell me a little bit about
00:35:36
Speaker
little Samira. Like what? Who who is little Samira? Tell me a little bit. So I grew up in a small town in the Midwest. We were the first Indians to move into the town. Wow. Yeah, it was not a diverse um town at all. Like my graduating class in senior year, it was like maybe 200 kids. And there was like me, there was like one, there were two other Asian kids, a Filipino kid, Filipino American, Chinese American. There were like six black kids There were maybe six to 10 Black kids, and a handful of Latinx kids, like two Jewish kids. like that was like the The diversity was like, are you Lutheran or Presbyterian? but on And so it was, I think that really shaped me in a lot of ways. And when I was very little, I was shy. I was nervous. It was hard to be the only one.
00:36:33
Speaker
I definitely faced some like really kind of crappy prejudices or microaggressions. And even from like teachers who like me, like the ones who would be like, oh, well, you're Indian, so you know everything about this. And I was like, dude, I'm in third grade. No, like, but don me love there's like 70 languages spoken in India. I don't speak all. Or, you know, your food smells funny. Your lunch smells funny. And so I just wanted a stupid, like,
00:37:03
Speaker
turkeys and cheese sandwiches. Yeah. Yeah. it could have been anything Like actually good food. Yeah. I mean, like Wonder Bread was like, wow.
00:37:14
Speaker
Wonder Bread. It's like expensive. It's like the expensive white bread and it's soft, but I didn't. That was, you know, and as I got older, I think I knew I was sort of like the one who would stick out. So I decided to lean into it so I would stick out more.
00:37:33
Speaker
And so by the time I got to like middle, like junior high, it was called junior high back then, it was like so long ago, and high school, I was definitely becoming more political. I was like watching, like I was a kid who would be watching, I would literally watch like the Democratic National Convention. Like I would be watching that stuff. I would be learning about ah these things. I loved the concept of civil disobedience.
00:37:57
Speaker
And, you know, I would even dress like, you know, I was like, it was the 80s. So I was definitely like the kid dressing on in clothes from the thrift store, but then like blinging them out in some way or something different. You know, like I have these pictures of me and I was like, my God, how big is this? back i'm wearing um You know, I had this little vest that I bought and i I put all these like buttons like on the back of it and I made them into like a peace sign.
00:38:25
Speaker
is That's no dope though. that's That that is like is so cool. like I mean,
00:38:32
Speaker
i mean it was very random. like i had I remember this coat that I had that I loved and I'm like, I don't even know where it is, but it was like a man's like winter sort of like trench coat style. This like wool coat. And I had found like also the thrift store, this like this like gold chain belt. And I wore it on top of the coat. Like a and I was like, oh, my God, what was I doing? But I also was like, especially by senior year, I was a lot more political. Even junior year, I was always challenging like the American or American studies or U.S. government like teachers about things.
00:39:10
Speaker
And I was editor of the school newspaper. I wrote like an op-ed about the school administration and how I compared them to the Wizard of Oz and how they were always like hidden behind a curtain and they weren't present or accountable to students. How old how old were you when you did this? I was a senior in high school, so I was editor of the newspaper. But when that when that came out, it was hilarious because Every administrator that day came into like one of my classrooms and was like, I'm just here to say hi to Samira and let you know that I'm present. but um I actually think it was pretty ballsy that the ah that the the school newspaper, like the teacher who was writing that, let us put that down. You run it, yes. Yes, because nowadays, I don't know if they would.
00:39:58
Speaker
No, they definitely wouldn't. They definitely. I was I was really inspired by the tankers like this case in the 19th. It was like during the Vietnam War, these kids. In Iowa, these brother and sister were these like black armbands and in protest of the Vietnam War. And they went the school tried to get them to take it off. And this is a case that ultimately went to the Supreme Court, Tinker v. Des Moines. And it I was so into this case that like I was like, oh, my God, kids can protest stuff. Kids can like do this kind of thing so that when our teachers my senior year were negotiating their school contract, they were were information picketing. They weren't yet on. They didn't go on strike, but they were information and picketing like before school, after school. And for folks who who don't know what that means in terms of labor union, they were not striking. They were still doing their jobs, but they're literally walking around with like giant picket signs. like We need a contract, whatever. So I like organized like
00:40:55
Speaker
a bunch of the kids to wear black armbands in support of the teachers. Wow. That is a story. That's a story. So I think by the time I was older, I was sort of like, well, I know I'm the only one and instead of trying to hide, might as well just lean into that. And I definitely think there's kids. I mean, I definitely think there's a couple of routes that kids can take. Like you can either like feel like I'm
00:41:25
Speaker
I'm going to just try to hide myself a little bit, which I definitely did, especially as I was younger chris or I'm just, I stick out anyway, might as well stick out more and yeah be my own weird self. and But i said I still did like all the activities in high school and I liked them. Like hu I went to the basketball games and stuff. i I like that stuff. Like I know a lot of, I think ah Sometimes I want panels and a lot of YA authors are like, I hated high school. And I was like, no, honestly, I loved it. I think that's, so i I think that's so dope. And I think all of that tells me so much about why the way you write that you do, like why the, why you write the way that you do all the little things. Like I remember the references about like one of the kids wearing like Samba's and I was like, Oh my gosh, like,
00:42:13
Speaker
Of course, like you do your research. Of course, you know what kids are into. Like it's such a great book that I also still wear Samba's myself. Of course. words And that's, and that's, it I think, I think it's so cool that you put it in. Samba's have never gone out of style, but now they're just like coming back again. Like there's so many kids, like kids who are in like grade 12 now, or like, you know, even adults who collect shoes, like they're looking at Samba's differently now. But I love that you put it in the book because it just,
00:42:41
Speaker
It's just time and place. Like right now, it's a thing. Like people are looking at some of this differently. And when you look back on this book specifically in history, I think that little moment of putting something like Osama in the book as well is just another layer. Honestly, it is such another layer. Those are choices when you're making those choices. That's also character development, right? Like voice has like, you know, like very expensive sneakers.
00:43:11
Speaker
But it's kind of a pose where you kind of get that they are just getting it for the money, as opposed to like a lot of my characters where there's shit like they wear like the shoes that I did because all of those things from the 80s and 90s are coming back now like.
00:43:25
Speaker
Doc Martens. Yep. They were always wearing scuffed Doc Martens. Like they're all stars. And they got the Samba's. But the thing that's great about all like especially Doc's and Samba's now is that they are so much lighter than when I was in high school. Like my Doc Martens weighed like 10 pounds each. Now, I was like, Oh my god, these are so light. I can actually walk in these now. but but I know exactly. Yes, of course I had Doc Martens when I was a kid. under now i Tamir, I want to, I mean, we could talk about this forever, but I want to, where can people find you online? So you can find me at samiramed.com, my website. And I mostly, now that Twitter's completely been taken over by Nazis, I'm mostly on Instagram. You can find me at, at Sam I underscore I underscore M that's S A M underscore A Y E underscore A H M. Yeah.
00:44:24
Speaker
that That's amazing. And if you don't know, we have been talking about the book and I hate asking authors this, but feel free to share anything else that you have coming up. I know you're also saying you're going to go on a break, which is very nice and well deserved. Definitely well deserved. It's also really important. You know what? Sometimes taking a break is the way to get sort of your creativity and the joy of creativity and curiosity back. Mm hmm.
00:44:53
Speaker
I wish everyone could take breaks. I mean, I'm going to take a little break from writing because that actually helps my writing. So I'm very privileged to be able to do that. I wish everyone could be able to do that.
00:45:04
Speaker
to So coming up next, I do have a book that's coming out basically a year from now. It hasn't been announced yet, but I can tell you um it's actually also speculative novel and speculative is basically like contemporary. I write it as contemporary, but with like some kind of a twist that is not like real world in a way. um So like a little bit of a sci-fi twist, which is what this one has. But it's about it's a story set in it's about a girl lost in the multiverse and I'm kind of describing it as it's like the midnight library meets everything everywhere all at once with a little whiff of they both die at the end. Oh wow.
00:45:50
Speaker
So, I mean, yes, those are very great comps. It's not going to be exactly all of those, but those are sort of the closest comps that I'm getting. I think it's good. I'm writing it right now. It's going. I'm doing the copy edits and I'm going to hopefully announce it soon. So I'll be sharing that and the cover and everything else once I have it. but thank friend you Thank you so much. This was such a treat for me to talk books, get to know you a little bit better. I'm sending all the positive vibes your way. And again, I understanding because I've had to reschedule this a few times.