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EP. 131 CHILDREN'S BOOK CAN REALLY change the world with Gracey Zhang | It's Personal
46 Plays5 months ago
Artist and author Gracey Zhang shares insights into her diverse creative portfolio and the personal experiences that have shaped her art and writing. From her early days exploring the world through her travels, to her immersion in the vibrant art scene at one of the top art schools in the world, Gracey's path to artistic success has been a winding and inspiring one. Delve into the inspirations behind her beautiful picture books and her deep appreciation for the power of visual storytelling.
Discover how Gracey's own experiences navigating different cultures have influenced the rich tapestry of her work, imbuing her narratives with a sense of wonder and a celebration of diversity. Join us as we unpack Gracey's passion for creating relatable and empowering stories, and learn how her unique artistic style, honed through her mastery of a mysterious mission paintbrush, has captivated readers of all ages.
Prepare to be inspired by Gracey's incredible talent and her mission to share the beauty of the world through her art and words. As we explore the next chapter of her creative journey, we can't wait to see what Gracey Zhang will bring to the world of children's literature and beyond.
Listen to audio versions here:
Apple: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-grayarea-podcast/id1433551931?mt=2
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2f3XyNgnVLk0rqEeebK57y?si=CDLYL6_iRMeGNQaxC7pmAA
Zencastr: https://zencastr.com/It-s-Personal-Podcast
Website: https://www.graceyzhang.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/graceyyz
Be: https://www.behance.net/graceyzhang
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
ah Welcome back friends to another episode I'm super excited. I have one of my favorite authors and illustrators with me today um And I mentioned this to her before but not only is she a beautiful illustrator um She is also a writer as well Can you introduce yourself?
00:00:24
Speaker
sorry and was not really Hi,
Gracie's Travel Journey and Influences
00:00:28
Speaker
everyone. My name is Gracie Zeng. I am an author and illustrator. I was originally born in Vancouver, Canada and am now based in New York, but I'm currently on a bit of a slight sabbatical where I'm traveling outside the country for a year or so. Still working here and there, but not as much. sure And yeah, I'm currently in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. Wow. That is incredible. That is incredible. We talked about this before a little bit.
00:00:57
Speaker
But where did you start? Because this isn't your first day like abroad from from home. like Where did you start and where do you see the possible end in your travels? So ah for this trip, I started a little bit before, like a day before New Year's.
00:01:19
Speaker
So I think December 28th, I started in Mozambique and I was in Maputo, the south, worked my way up north. So I went from Mozambique, Malawi, Tanzania, then Kenya, and then now Ethiopia. Wow. That is incredible. and i And I know this obviously because I was looking through your bio. um You had done some traveling as a student as well. So you this isn't new for you, but how did traveling come about for you? And like what has influenced your travels over the years?
00:01:59
Speaker
Yes. So I think in the last time we spoke, I brought up ah the first time leaving home was when I was five years old, when I ran away from the house and was caught pretty quickly after half an hour or so because I stopped at a house on the street to ask or to try to get the girl living that house to see if she wanted to run away with me and her parents were like, stay here, let's call your parents. But then traveling when I was a student, I would have to say the first big trip, I took a year off after my third year at RISD and I went to Shanghai, China to do an internship there.
00:02:40
Speaker
And while I was there, there was um a holiday for the Lunar New Year. And so it was like a two-week holiday. And so I took that time and went backpacking through the Southeast Asia route, Thailand, Cambodia, and Vietnam. And that was like the first backpacking trip where it kind of opened my eyes to how how it was even possible to travel this way, because I think I always associated travel with needing like a purpose like a work purpose. So I had always applied for sort of exchanges or residencies, like things that allowed me to go somewhere for a reason.
The Art of Observation and Sketching
00:03:18
Speaker
ah But with backpacking, it kind of I had my own prejudices as I discovered. I was very anti-Epre love. I was like, I'm not no Julia Roberts. But then after doing that, I was like, maybe I'm Julia Roberts.
00:03:34
Speaker
That is so good. And I think it's so interesting because I feel like backpacking itself is its own experience. It is not the same as like, you know, a luxury vacation on a beach or, you know, a five star resort or signing up for something where everything is so scheduled for you. um Backpacking is truly backpacking and figuring it out like as you go. um And you often have some destinations that you're looking forward to or have on your list and sometimes you don't actually make it to those places. And I think that's the beauty of backpacking um and exploring.
00:04:11
Speaker
Right now you're on your you're on your own, which is amazing. And you're finding different places to travel. You're meeting new people. Do you find that a lot of your travel influences the work that you do? And if so, how? Yeah, so I almost have a good described backpacking as like the anti-vacation. Well, for me personally, where I like thrive on getting myself into stressful situations and trying to figure my way out of it. But what I really like about what the experience affords me is I think just observation of people. And I'm repeating myself from last time, but it's like sometimes you realize the more you see, the more you realize how the world is both not as big as you realize, but at the same time bigger than you thought um in the sense that like different cultures and histories ah widen your scope. But then when you see people, you,
00:05:09
Speaker
It kind of reminds you that people sort of have the same motivations and heart everywhere. And what I like the most about observing people is just sort of interactions between family members, strangers, how people even say hello to each other across different cultures on the street. who Those are my favorite things to like maybe take a snapshot of in my mind and then try to record it in my sketchbook after. And you do such a great job of that. And I've recently been seeing lots of sketches um on your social media accounts. And what what is the like, how do you know that is what you want to capture? Like sometimes you'll do people sitting down, people carrying things, people in motion or in action. um How do you choose what to draw or what to illustrate? I guess like if I see it and it makes like an imprint on me, then then I choose to draw it.
00:06:08
Speaker
Like something that makes me go, huh? Or like, oh. Like if I have some kind of reaction to it and then even sometimes I have a reaction to it, draw it, forget about it, and then I'll be going through my sketchbook and then seeing that drawing will bring back memories of the day or what even happened prior to seeing seeing that scene. So it's like a memory thing for me. Like I like those. like a photo album, but drawings. who who Yeah, that's that' so incredible. And again, I love seeing them online and they are
00:06:48
Speaker
I don't know how quickly they are done, but they are so stunning regardless of the amount of time that you
Educational Journey and Gap Year Benefits
00:06:54
Speaker
put into them. um And it makes me think about something you mentioned earlier about your time at RISD and something we had talked about in previous conversation. But I want to know more about that experience um and how much of an influence obviously that has been on you because everything that I hear about RISD and a lot of the people that I know that have come out of RISD in regards to illustrations and publishing, they're amazing. All of them. They're all very, very good at what they do. So what is it that what are some things that you loved about RISD and maybe some things that you found challenging?
00:07:33
Speaker
Yeah, so I went to like a high school, a public high school where we didn't really like AP art wasn't a thing. I went to an after school art program to create like a portfolio geared towards like a art school. But even then I would say it didn't really teach me how to talk about art. And then suddenly when I got to RISD freshman year, it was like a completely, like when you've only seen a world like this and like very, very far or small, and then suddenly you' you're being immersed in it in your,
00:08:10
Speaker
hearing things or talking about things or seeing things in a way that you didn't even know. was possible to talk about. like And it just felt really validating. like It was felt like a language I was trying to speak and then suddenly realizing other people are speaking it too. ah So I would say first freshman year RISD was amazing in that sense. Everyone was put through the same training. ah There are three main studios, drawing, 3D, and design. And I never seen illustration or art as a way of
00:08:45
Speaker
problem solving in that way until I got to RISD. So I would say most of my peers agree that freshman year was like, when they felt like big brain moment, like the the mind was expanded a little bit. I will say second and third year though, is when, you know, the stresses of life start to get to you start to wonder like, how am I going to get a job in this, but you're taking courses by maybe professors who have not worked in like years and what they're teaching in the field. applicable for the real world anymore. um That was sort of what prompted me taking my year off. So I got a little bit of graphic design experience, a bit of work experience in in the design world. I had only had like part-time jobs working in like food industry, babysitting, um work study type positions. And so I came back senior year like completely like refocused knowing exactly what I wanted out of RISD. And so I'm, I think I do feel like
00:09:44
Speaker
a gap year is not as popular in the United States as it is in other countries in Europe, maybe. And I feel like it was so beneficial for me. And I know many other my classmates express we're a little bit of regret at not doing the same thing. And so I think having some time to kind of get out of school and then going back in is was really, really helpful. um Yeah. Yeah, I think it's so interesting because I teach at I've been teaching at international schools and yeah, it's still a thing where people talk about the gap here as
00:10:21
Speaker
Not necessarily a letdown, but I think they're almost scared to talk about it or scared to even suggest it because of the stigma that is around like what happens or why you're taking the the gap year. I think it's a amazing thing that you took the gap year and you were able to figure out what it is you wanted to do. And I do think a gap year is something that students actually need.
Impactful Projects and Artistic Development
00:10:43
Speaker
It's not it's not that they're just doing it because you know they don't have an opportunity, because for the most part, they do have opportunities. but gap year can really allow you to settle yourself down um coming out of high school or coming out of um a few years of university because school is not easy. It is not an easy task and it's a long journey as well. I have so many questions for you about RISD. I think number one is like were there specific projects that like influenced you in regards to your thinking about art and tell me about some of your professors there.
00:11:22
Speaker
o Okay, I would say I had a few, I had like many teachers that really shaped and formed um the way I work or the way I think about art. I guess the first sort of shaking up of my conceptions about um illustration or drawing was maybe freshman year when we were just forced to draw and make ugly drawings from what my perspective was because i was so used to creating like a finished piece and then the art of a gesture was something new to me and then at the time i was like what the hell is this like we're just we're drawing like this idea of the stroke.
00:12:02
Speaker
having life was was foreign now i'm like very into the like master like strokes or gestures or just drawings that feel of the moment but as an 18 year old i i really was like art school is such bullshit but then the more i got into it the more i started to feel like my own ideas my own perspective changing I did have a very fantastic professor, Fred Lynch. He's been teaching an illustration for a very, very long time. And I think that's sort of when I started to work more seriously in narrative artwork. So he had a course that was
00:12:42
Speaker
sort of illustration and narratives and so that course was like building not necessarily a picture book but like a story, a journal, some kind of dialogue ah combined with art and so in his class I created like this mini almost comic diary of the six months that i spent in shanghai and it kind of like i was very focused on editorial illustration at the time that's what i wanted to go into after school and i did do that for a bit but then i kept thinking about like long-form storytelling and sort of the things i wanted to say and
00:13:21
Speaker
being able to spend more time ah creating a story was really I think it was a little bit full circle because I remember reading storybooks very young like early chapter books for kids and when teachers would ask like what do you want to be when you grow up I the only thing I could think of was like author because I really didn't know what else I would do as a child i still good for you and then now It feels like oh going from illustration forgetting about like author I just knew I wanted to draw and then kind of reconnecting the dots um and being able to tell stories as an illustrator was like a little bit of a light bulb moment.
00:14:00
Speaker
That's dope. Good for you. Good for you. and I get that a little bit, like as ah I teach third grade. So I do get that a little bit. Some kids, I mean, very few. We have a lot of, and I mean, I don't know if it's influenced by parents, but I have a lot of kids that say they want to be engineers. They want to be doctors. Then a lot of kids that want to pay. I didn't even know what an engineer was at that age. Me, I'm still trying to figure it out.
00:14:27
Speaker
Because some of them are like, I want to be computer engineers, like all this different stuff, which is totally fine. yeah I also think there's like a heavy influence from siblings or parents, et cetera. And you know being an author or an illustrator isn't such a clear path um in regards to a career. ah you You have to struggle a little bit. You have to find what works for you. And and that can be challenging. right and people don't know a clear path for something, it makes it feel like it's impossible, or it may just take a lot longer than what they're expecting. Gracie, how would you describe your illustrations? I had this question in my mind, I didn't ask you last time, but like how would you describe like your work in general? Besides beautiful, because we know it's we very noticeable.
00:15:21
Speaker
I was like, maybe almost impulsive, if that makes sense. I feel like i I was a very impulsive personality as a child. And it's so funny, whenever my mother sees my drawing, she's like, I can tell you have a rushed heart, that you're just always moving, and that your heart is not calm, you're not stable, you need to settle down. But the thing is, I really, I really enjoy that about the way I work. i like I like just being able to see almost like the immediate, like like from the way when you observe the eye brain hand, it's just like immediate. You're not thinking about things, you're just doing it. So maybe impulsive, but hopefully hopefully it's one of those things. It's like maybe initially you're like, what is this? But then if you spend a little bit time with it, then maybe you can kind of let it sink in a little bit more. Maybe see the moment that I'm trying to to capture.
00:16:21
Speaker
Yeah. Hopefully. I think you do. I think you do a great job with that. And I think specifically about Lala's words and just how the flow of the images go from beginning to end. Like you can really see a transition. For me at least, I feel like there's a really nice transition from the words and then to the images and then even to the colors. And that's as ah someone who likes art, and I think someone who also now reads a lot of books as like a writer, you look for those things. And as a teacher, you're also asking
Artistic Style and Current Projects
00:16:55
Speaker
kids to do those things. So when you're like really dissecting someone's work and you can look at how the the illustrator is trying to you know make the brain think a certain way based on a color or even a stroke, I think that is really, really cool. And I think you do a really, really good job of that. So yeah, impulsive is really good. I think it's a great word for it. that's and positive Impulsive in a positive way. In a positive way.
00:17:20
Speaker
in a positive way. No, I love that. What are, I mean, you've you've illustrated and you've been illustrator and author of multiple books. Can you speak about a project that has really, not necessarily influenced you, but what's a project that you really enjoyed working on? I know you like working on all of them. And and I know you, I don't know if you have to say that, but what's one that kind of sticks out for you? I mean, The books that I wrote and illustrated for it, they're very personal for me in their own ways. I guess lala words Lala's Words for Obvious Reasons, it was my first book, and I think the way I worked for that
00:18:00
Speaker
ah definitely influenced a lot of the way that I work now. um So it was important to me in that way, but I will say, ah actually, ah the one of the last books I worked on recently should be Out Summer, this coming summer. It's called Noodles on a Bicycle, and it's written by Kyo Maclear, who I also worked with on the book The Big Bathhouse. That one was just a really nice one to do because it was I could get really deep into the history research of it. And this is a fun fact that I mentioned in a previous interview regarding this book. But um there is the book is set in sort of like nineteen late early 1960s Tokyo, Japan. And so signage was a really big thing that I wanted to focus on.
00:18:53
Speaker
but ah of my calligraphy was atrocious. And my mom came to visit me in New York at the time that I was working at this book. And she was just like, what is this? And my father also has a history like he apprenticed in Chinese calligraphy when he was younger. So it's like a point of pride. And i mean like my mom was like, your writing used to be so much, and your your calligraphy used to be so much nicer as a child. What happened now? So we actually redid a lot of the signage like me and my mom and she would have me practice writing.
00:19:25
Speaker
And at a certain point, I was like, would you like to try? And so she started, she tried to write the calligraphy and one of the the signs in one of the final art. And I have this on on camera, but she started to write and she went, oh, actually, Grace, you're a better writer than your mom is. I was like so happy for her to admit that I was better than her at something because the writing was very, very tiny. So that one was special. and I'm actually working on a book for Chronicle right now. I don't know if ah viewers or listeners will be able to see the video, but I'm working completely different on this book where I'm not using paint and ink, but I'm using more ballpoint pen. oh wow It's a really different process, but it there's something really
00:20:14
Speaker
um safe or meditative because it it feels like I'm back in the back of a classroom just drawing again in my notebook and a lot of these like pen scribbles is it's very soothing actually I can show an example I am I'm revising one of the spreads so this is one that I just did today oh my gosh that's crazy see e That is crazy. Let alone people.
Adventures in Ethiopia and Cultural Interactions
00:20:42
Speaker
if you but Let alone, I think you haven't said this when we've talked about this, you are in Ethiopia right now and you have your job with you just traveling around. That is incredible. That is incredible. Thank God for the dry backpack that fits all of us, this paper. Oh, actually, so I bought like a cheap-ish paintbrush in Tanzania and
00:21:09
Speaker
That's the paintbrush that I was using for, the there's a little bit of color in this book. And then, so I'm i'm done most of the books, I don't need the paintbrush as much. ah But when I was in Hawassa, Ethiopia a few days ago, I was painting with that paintbrush with some kids at a cafe. And then the most random thing happened. A man ran out of nowhere and took the paintbrush out of my hand and then just ran off.
00:21:37
Speaker
i The was not very expensive. It's not like a huge inconvenience for me to lose that paintbrush. But I was like, my phone, my wallet, like everything was fine. It was still on my persons. And then I thought it was a joke at first. Cause the way he took it almost seemed so mischievous. He went bloop and just like sccuttered like scuttled off. And I was wild expecting him to like circle back and come back and be like, ha ha, it's a joke. Never came back. So I was like, oh, I just had my paper. So yeah. Well, good thing you didn't leave too, because I think like my head is because I've traveled a bit as well. My head went to like, if you would have went after him, all your other stuff still would have been on the table. Yeah. Exactly. Like it just wasn't something that would have affected, like I can get a cheap paintbrush somewhere else.
00:22:36
Speaker
should but I just didn't know if there was like a black market for resoled paintbrushes that was that I didn't know about. Yeah, it was just one of those things I never expected to be stolen. Phone, wallet, even like passport maybe, but a paintbrush is the first for me. so I mean, there's just story there's a story for you right there. yeah
00:23:00
Speaker
love was So funny too, he kind of like was like, it felt like a scene from an animated movie. So I didn't take it seriously at first until like he turned a corner and I was like, Oh, he's not coming back. He's not coming back. that is Did anyone else see it? It was just I was surrounded by kids and they all went like, I think they didn't really understand what happened either because they kind of and then but then they were so focused on the painting. They're like, whatever. yeah yeah I told some adults in the area later, I was like, I think I just had my paintbrush stolen. And then so we were using Google Translate to try to communicate and they were like, was it really just a paintbrush or did it have like another special ability? And I was like, so even they were also a little baffled by it too.
00:23:48
Speaker
Wow. So when you, I mean, you talked about kids and you were doing art with them. Is that something you just kind of set up on your own or like, what did, like, how did that happen? Like, Oh, that was just, I was, uh, doing some drawing and painting like at a cafe and then some kids who lived in the area or just hanging around, hanging out, they came around. And so when they were looking, I was like, you want to paint with me? Of course, you know, if you did some kids paper. Yeah. Pencils, anything creative to let them go. That is so fun. That is so fun. I can only imagine the experiences that you will have or have had when that has happened. Like again, as a third grade teacher.
00:24:33
Speaker
You know, if you tell kids, okay, we're just going to draw today, or you can just get some paper. That's all you need. It's a piece of paper. it silence for a while That's it. It really does. And they love it. They can draw all day long and they will not be bothered. So I love, I love that you are, you know, not only doing the work that you need to do, but you're also inviting kids in to continue that like you know spark of creativity that they may or may not be getting somewhere else because kids love to love to draw. That's so fun. They almost have the most like innocent, truthful way of drawing and seeing the world. and so i always like Sometimes I will give my sketchbook over and then I get to keep the drawings after and I'm like,
00:25:20
Speaker
That's so fun. Yeah, no, that's so fun. That's so fun. That's so fun.
Upcoming Works and Gracie's Gratitude
00:25:26
Speaker
Gracie, where can people find you online? ah Yeah, probably ah the place where I update the most is Instagram um handle is at g grace, Y, Y, Z, or Z. So G, R, A, C, E, Y, Y, Z. Awesome. And you mentioned a few of the books that you have coming out. Can you just share again, like who are the authors and the titles of those books and some of the ones that you have may have recently ah published as well? Yes. ah So one that's coming out very soon is called Emergency Quarters. And it's written by first time picture book author Carlos Matias. He's not it's not his first time being published, though. He's
00:26:13
Speaker
been published, I believe, the New York Times and other editorial magazines, newspapers before. And this one, it's a great like New York City, Corona Queens neighborhood story. That's fun. Empanadas play a very big role in this book. That's fun. It's very 90s New York and payphones also have a role in the story. And it was so funny. The editor, Mabel, Mabel Shue was like, I think we need to actually have a note in the beginning of the book explaining what a payphone is. Because a lot of kids have not seen a payphone. They will not. That is so true. That is so true. So that one is coming out. And then the one I mentioned before this summer is Noodles on a Bicycle um with Kyo Maclear. That one I'm really
00:26:59
Speaker
ah fond of as well. So those are the two books that are already like ready to be released and then other ah things I recently agreed to that I haven't started working on yet. So those will be coming out in the next few years. Wow. You are very busy. But that's a good thing, right? um That as an illustrator author, that's a good thing. There was a period of time when I was first starting freelance where I was not busy at all. And all I wanted to do was be busy. So the the moments now when I am like, maybe a little bit overloaded, I'm like, still grateful that I can be busy. Yeah.
00:27:43
Speaker
And as a teacher, I am super grateful for you and the work that you do for, you know, publishing, for literature, for art, for creatives. um I enjoy your work so much, and my kids um in the classroom do as well. So thank you. Thank you so much. And we will talk again, okay? Yes.