Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
EP.142 Quartez Harris chats NEW BOOK and what happen on his writing journey
25 Plays3 days ago
Quartez Harris, a poet and teaching artist whose work has earned him numerous accolades, including the Ohio Poetry Association’s Poet of the Year for his collection We Made it to School Alive. Quartez is set to release his debut picture book, Go Tell It: How James Baldwin Became a Writer, with Little Brown in January 2025. Born in Springfield, Ohio, he faced significant challenges due to a learning disability but found strength in words. As a second-grade teacher, he captured his students' voices and experiences, inspiring his impactful poetry. Join us as we explore his journey, the stories behind his work, and his commitment to amplifying underrepresented voices in literature.
Listen to audio versions here:
Apple: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/t...
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2f3XyNg...
Zencastr: https://zencastr.com/It-s-Personal-Po...
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
All right. Welcome back everyone to another episode. And I'll say it and I'll continue to say it because selfishly, as I mentioned all the time, I can have anyone I want on this show. And today I'm super excited to have a friend, someone that I've been following for a very, very long time. um Can you introduce yourself? Yes, yes, yes. My name is um Cortez Harris. I am a poet.
00:00:23
Speaker
I am a dad, I am a former teacher, still educated though. I taught second grade, um still love the children. um Yeah, and I'm a foracious reader and I love to write um when the muse allows me to. You mentioned before you came on, I hope it's okay that I mentioned this, you were in the process of also being married. So I just want to congratulate on one that Yeah, yes. And how how are things so far? um And yeah, tell tell me about the process. Okay, so um yeah, I'm going I like to tell stories. So that's, that's, that's my means. So um I'm gonna tell it this way. I'm gonna highlight it this way. So yesterday, me and my fiance spent the evening on roaming around Cleveland, Ohio looking for green boots. And what I mean by a green boots is we are on the front cover of Cleveland scene, which is a large, you know,
00:01:19
Speaker
physical magazine you know platform here, um no local news, whatnot in Cleveland. yet and And we are featured on the front cover um because yeah we are both literary um individuals. We have our own literary literary studio on the west side of town. But someone thought we were interesting enough. And it was like, hey, we want to have you guys come out um and want to interview you and follow you around for eight months. So yeah, we we we saw our physical sales on a magazine. um And we're on the front cover.
00:01:49
Speaker
And it's apparently it says, you know, um we are poets, poet couple is on the rise, but I love that I could feel like I am on the rise with my um beloved partner.
00:02:02
Speaker
Wow, your dad is so dope. And I think it's so cool. I have, I mentioned this, but I have so many questions for you, but I think it's so cool that both of you are educators,
00:02:14
Speaker
educators literary people, book people, because my wife is also an educator, a writer, et cetera. And I can speak to you about this because you know exactly how I feel when I say this, like to have someone that just understands, you know,
00:02:32
Speaker
the literary part of you, the writing part of you, the reading part of you, it really helps. It really, really helps. It feels like a mutual meeting of the mind. Right. Right. it may It does definitely make life easier. Absolutely. My first question, and I always ask this, is tell me about Lil Q. Tell me about Lil Q. You know, ah okay, Lil Q.
00:03:01
Speaker
q I think he'll be proud of me right now. um but i and i and i And I say this because my earliest relationship with myself, I felt was marked by shame. I couldn't read, couldn't spell.
00:03:16
Speaker
um In fact, I remember this guy named Joe Kennerly. I was envious of him because he was a spelling bee champ, right? I remember wanting to be just like him and he sort of conquered language in a way, right? And I had an IEP, you know, and poor reading comprehension, poor writing expression. And I was in these sort of non-standardized classrooms. But I do remember in second grade, which is For me, it's a um significant um moment to be able to reflect on being a, to be a second grade teacher because that was when I first was introduced to my own sort of um limitations around language. And so I have a sensitivity to young people who are struggling with language, struggling with decoding language. But I remember, you know, everybody had 20 spelling words, only had five. and i'm like
00:04:01
Speaker
And I remember being pulled out of classrooms. you know So I remember um just wanting to sort of be validated. I wanted my mind to be validated, but I felt like people were um sort of challenging my mind in the sense of like, oh, wow, you you it's it's it's not working. right I felt like my mind was non-functional. And so now to think back now that I'm writing, right it's like ah super weird. um But I will say that um those earlier moments. I think they sort of yielded these sort of like instinctive reactions that I have sometimes. I'm like, I can't do it. I can't write, you know, and I'm still sort of sort of trying to ah reassure a little Cortez, like there's still possibilities for you. You still can use language. Yeah. So yeah, that that's my earliest childhood is is really sort of um sort of a mirage of just all these differences. the dip These moments are feeling in different.
00:04:53
Speaker
Wow. Wow. And I think that's so interesting because I can hear, I was going to ask you, how has that influenced the way you care for kids and your appreciation to, you know, the idea around empathy? Because that's when you're talking about your experience. You are now showing empathy with those other kids. And I think that's so important.
00:05:12
Speaker
um it Shout out to the unicorns. Patrick Harris always talked about how us as elementary teachers, or just black educators in general, sorry, are just unicorns. And we There's very few of us. um Tell me a little bit about your experience just being a black male educator. let Let's unpack that. Let's unpack that. um and You know, when I was an educator for six years, it wasn't until my last year I worked with a African-American male, meaning the only time I had an African-American colleague was
00:05:53
Speaker
the last year of my sort of term as an educator, um this black man, unfortunately, um didn't feel supported and left education. So that was very troubling. I felt very and under supported. um I felt, but there was also a sense of like um closeness. I felt like I got with parents because, you know, I was at and a single grade school, essentially all the student body was virtually all black. All the teachers were white.
00:06:23
Speaker
right So I felt like when adults came into the room, they wanted to be around my classroom. And I remember walking down the hallway one day and a parent sort of whispered to their child and said, oh my gosh, you have a black male teacher. So I'm grateful that I was sort of like a intellectual model or intellectual possibility um as a black male figure.
00:06:46
Speaker
right And ultimately, I just want to say that um there was a sense of pride in being Black in education. you know I remember being excited to tell people like this was my vocation at the time. you know I remember being excited that um I had a walk-in class. I had my locks. Sometimes I walked in with my my hat on, my sneakers, my tie. And just sort of sort of giving kids it sort of ah a window into, like wow, like you can also be a professional. But you also can be real to your identity. right And a lot of my kids, I feel like I look like they're, they're, they're uncles, you know, yeah yeah or you know, saying they're the cousins. Right. And so, um, it was sort of for me, it felt.
00:07:27
Speaker
very sort of contained in this sort of like, okay, wow, like I am in this space and I'm grateful to be in this space, but I still feel marginalized. I feel still feel like there's not enough of us. I don't like feeling like a unicorn in that sense. I feel like there should be more representation of black individuals in sort of these brick and mortar schools. So there was still so sort of like, um I felt like a cognitive distance a little bit of like, oh my gosh, like I like that I'm i'm um um this black figure in the space, but why is it just me? Why are there not more? yeah Right? Yeah.
00:07:58
Speaker
Yeah. And it's so interesting that you talk about being at an all black school in regards to like the kids and the population and then having white teachers. And I admit my connection to that is I'm at, i've I've been teaching at international schools where the population is, you know, these kids are from everywhere, like kids from Korea, kids from Japan, black kids, white kids, kids that are coming from like the middle east like all these different kids and then when you look at the faculty the expectation would be that your faculty represents your students and i will say like the specific school that i'm in and now there is that they have been the best school that i've been at where there is
00:08:45
Speaker
You know, there's a, there's a good amount, not enough, but a good amount, probably more than what I've seen in my um past in regards to this teachers looking like they're students, but they're still not enough. If all of your students, you know, all of your students come from all these different places, your teachers should come from all these different places. Right. That part. right You know what I mean? So I can totally understand how you feel. Cause what I have had those black kids in my class,
00:09:14
Speaker
It makes the world of a difference and you can tell like right away. So, I mean, I agree. The unicorn phase is so interesting because there's not very many of us out there. How do you retain us as well? And something else that happens is sort of when my kids enter my classroom on the first day, it's like they were kind of shocked. e Are we in the right classroom? You know, because A lot of them didn't have that experience of having prior to me, having a black male teacher and even her parents. Sometimes parents mistake me for a student, you know? And it's like, it's interesting that when you are in that position to teach young and black brown children or children you know at any race, you know, um there is an assumption that like, wait, are you supposed to be here?
00:10:10
Speaker
yeah You know, but it does affirm possibilities when, you know, I think for my students to see me in front of them and around them and with them and playing with them, they're like, wow, like I can be this too. It's much more deeper, deeper connection when you can feel like you can like visceral, you know, experience yourself through someone else, right? Just because they look like you.
00:10:35
Speaker
Yes. Oh, 100%. Because we all remember the teachers who have influenced us the most. For me specifically, like those teachers were teachers of color. They look like me. They've had experiences like me. They're able to relate to me in certain ways.
00:10:51
Speaker
I know like it they knew my parents, they knew my cousins, and all that stuff made a huge difference. And not having that for kids, like i mean if you miss out on an opportunity. yeah right You miss out on an opportunity. um So I want to talk to you a little bit about, I mean, again, I have a lot of questions. I have a lot of questions. So let's start first. ki If we can, let's start with first, um We made it to school live. okay um And let's talk a little bit about the inspiration behind that and the work that was put in to create this beautiful collection. And I mean beautiful because like every piece of that really speaks to my soul. So for those of you who don't know, I'll let you talk about it, but let's talk about um we made it to school ah alive first. Yes.
00:11:46
Speaker
um So, yeah, so um We Made a School Alive is a poetry collection that sort of spends my time as an educator in East Cleveland, um Glenville, an under an under-resourced environment, right? It's an impoverished environment.
00:12:14
Speaker
So I do recall on my first day interviewing for this school, I really, my sort of um first reaction was like, it looks like a prison. And well I remember having a bit of trepidation about being in this physical space, because it didn't feel real to me. you know I'm like, wait, there are brick and borders that look that mirror prisons. And that that that sort of rattled me a bit. um But when I started the year, um you know it was,
00:12:44
Speaker
I remember a teacher telling me like, not smile on the first day of school. Do not show your smile. Do not flash your smile. And that concerned me because at that point I felt like you want me to to sort of diminish, you know, my sort of identity because I know me being here matters, right? And I feel like also I love to smile, right? And I want kids to feel welcome. And I remember like really being sort of like um interested in why would she sort of communicate that to me. So I inquired about like, what was our rationale for telling me this? And she said, you know what, if you smile, they're not going to take you serious.
00:13:24
Speaker
they're gonna run all over you. So there is a sense of like, if you show who you are fully, they will not identify you or they will identify you as someone not to be taken serious with, right? And I thought like, wow, like I feel like my presence alone, you know, people sort of embrace me. Whether I smile or not, I feel like it's important. It's for me, essential to me that I show them that I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to be an intellectual model. I'm happy to be someone that they can identify with.
00:13:53
Speaker
And I remember like, I'm going to be honest, I remember smiling and kind of having a sense of fear of like, or concern or anxiety of like, okay, is she right? You know, is she right? This is my first time sort of teaching in this, in this capacity. And to come to find out, you know, these children, just me smiling, choosing to smile on the first day of school, I really felt like I wasn't challenged. I was embraced by children. And I think that experience for me, I guess you can say, so I use my smile as a metaphor, it sort of opened them up a little bit.
00:14:22
Speaker
And I recall my classroom environment being a very playful environment. Kids really having a level of enthusiasm to read. um Enthusiasm to sort of read even when they're struggling with decoding words. right It was like ah um wasn't a perfect environment, but it was very much a real real classroom where kids got upset. They got angry, but they were happy that we had reconciled. you know We attuned each other. you know And I felt like um My kids, we celebrated reading, you know, before we even started the class and we were dancing and singing Harambee chants, you know, um and literally celebrating sort of reading and our imaginations, our our our unique selves. And I did that over the course of 66 years. And to this day, I still go back to my school because I still have relationships with some of my former students and they're much taller than me. Right. ah But, um you know, I really felt like I left it in print just because I chose
00:15:16
Speaker
to spend most of my time in the classroom smiling. I spent chose to spend most of my time in my class on breathing, trying not to be so reactive, because I knew a lot of teachers were just frustrated with sort of, when we can talk about that in another episode, right sort of with the infrastructure of schools and just sort of system the school system as as as it is. But I felt like you know right now, all I have right now is my sensitivity to language, to my sensitivity to learning. And I'm going to use it to my advantage. And also my sensitivity to the fact that, like wow, like they may never get a black male education.
00:15:46
Speaker
in anytime soon after me um yeah so back to your question of we may ask you a lot, it's really me documenting my experience, but also just documenting experience such as kids who will come to me and they talk to me about gun violence. You know, kids will talk to me about how, you know, they didn't have any heating heating. Their house is really hot or cold, you know, um kids who just talked about like being hungry, you know, kids who talked about, you know, being afraid to walk to school. So it was really sort of um a collection of just some of the things that I was curious about, some of the things I've heard and I've seen while teaching in a public educational space.
00:16:22
Speaker
And I don't know if we can get into this, but we could try. So I had like the educational systems then make challenges with factors like overcrowded classrooms and teachers having like, you know, to just overwork themselves in general. Like in your view, what are some of the root causes like for these issues? What are some changes that need to happen or are already happening in some places so students are being supported and at the same time teachers are being supported and you know schools talk about mental health all the time at least our schools they do um do they do a good job of it i don't know because i still find out i still find that burnout is real and i find like teachers are being overworked um
00:17:16
Speaker
And I know for a lot of friends of mine that are teaching specifically in North America, they're also not getting paid their due as well. So what do you think about some of the changes that might have to happen in order for teachers to stay in the teaching profession and for students to be a little bit more supportive? Yeah, I think um one thing that we must grapple with, and I know it sounds a bit trite, but teachers, there there is a reality of you know, having an experience of unearning, you know, under earning. I think I, as a personally as a teacher, I remember, you know, I i didn't make that much annually, but I remember um sort of scrapping up money to just, you know, provide my students sort of with a hands-on learning experience.
00:18:08
Speaker
You know, I remember, you know, setting up, you know, donor shoes and wait, have to wait, you know, maybe like a month for it to be fully funded before I can actually go out and buy the sort of the activities that I felt that would ensure that my classroom was sort of like a, a creative, imaginative space. You know, um I remember, you know, teachers sort of have to get like so creative, um which also kind of um sort of impeded sort of their time to sort of reprieve, you know, it's like you're, you have to sort of,
00:18:36
Speaker
you know, build up these sort of classroom systems, you know, or creative systems so that you can actually have a sort of a print imaginary rich environment, which might mean you spend a little bit more time cutting, you know, um spend a little bit more time, you know, trying to figure out imaginary ways of sort of to ensure engagement, which there may be like a like here in Cleveland, Ohio, you have, you know, Lakeshore learning, where it's all these really cool, you know, activity-based games, and kids don't even realize they're learning because they're having so much fun, right? And that sort of strengthens sort of the small circle learning environments, right? Or the, as they will, as we described them, as center rotations, right? It's like, I need funding to ensure that my kids have, are engaged when they're at their small group stations, right? But if I don't have that, you know, then I have to use my own
00:19:27
Speaker
means of under earning income to sort of compensate for what my kids don't have. right And I think that, in my opinion, I think that is um taxing emotionally.
00:19:38
Speaker
Right? It's like, not only do I got to figure out how I can sort of um the make sure I'm well enough to be at school, but also make sure my kids are um have a sense of engagement. But let's just be honest, to engage kids, we need resources. We need access to resources, right? So now you got to sort of think out the box to ensure that your kids are focused and want to be in the classroom.
00:20:03
Speaker
That's one problem is a lack of just resources, right? And the other problem and to your point is there is a sense of, if I take off, there's a sense of guilt, right? And you don't feel like you have, you can sort of and fully embrace feeling reprieve and restorative because you know that like, all right,
00:20:26
Speaker
my evaluation system may not be up to par, if I'm not present, or they're going to be assumption that I'm not working hard enough, right? Or my kids may need me, you know? um And so it's like, I don't know, I never really feel fully felt off into the summertime. When school pretty much just came to a complete sort of total end, right? um And overpopulated classroom is a big one.
00:20:47
Speaker
You know, a lot of kids need individualized support, you know, and it's hard to provide that sort of individualized, you know, meet those individual needs when you have, you know, 25 plus students in a classroom and you have no paraprofessional. So now you're overextending yourself in your own environment. And the kids are watching you sort of, um, react as if you're on, you need rest, right? Kids are like, I know I've, I've heard a kid say, you are you okay?
00:21:16
Speaker
When you got kids, you know they're aware. Kids are aware. Right, when they're actually, if you are okay? Yep. Yeah. Kids are very aware. They can look and very feel all the things. Regardless, like, I mean, you you teach that you done second grade, I'm teaching third grade. They can sense when something's wrong. Yeah. Right. They can sense when something's wrong. And I think you you nailed it. Like a lot of people talk about resources.
00:21:43
Speaker
I am lucky enough to be in a school where resources, resources aren't an issue for us. um They are very well resourced. I think some of the things we are working on is, you know, um when we're in elementary work, I think it's more like systematic where we are trying to figure out the number of teachers who are of color in the classrooms. I think the programs are pretty good. They can be more,
00:22:13
Speaker
anti-bias, anti-racist, yes. But I think systemically within the school in the structure itself, I think the more teachers that look like the students would be better. So it's so interesting that we are living over here and hearing stories about people who are teaching at home and just like how it's all connected. It is all very much connected. Right. um I also want to spend some time talking to you about you know, some future things that are happening that are very, very exciting for you. Exciting for me. So you have I think it's 2025. Yeah, I think 2025. Go tell it. Story about bulb it like we're how did that happen? When did you start writing this? How did it happen? um For those of you who don't know,
00:23:00
Speaker
um Q has a book coming out. I'm going to let him talk about it, even though I'm like gushing over the idea, the print, all this stuff. So how did it happen? And where are you right now with it? Yes. So I had been studying Baldwin for almost prior to writing a book, like a decade. um And when I say studying Baldwin, I felt like I was studying myself because I feel like Baldwin is so self-referential, but I feel like it's sort of his vehicle of sort of the reader, the listener, sort of to invite their own sense of awareness and to really, ah in my amount in my mind, sort of um really boldly face yourself. And I feel like for me, Baldwin sort of represents sort of self-awareness.
00:23:53
Speaker
And you know, and I think every time I read Baldwin, I feel like I'm sort of, I have a better sense of clarity about my own personal path, about my own personal rages, fears, the state of the world, right? So I feel like Baldwin sort of turned my eyes where I otherwise would not be looking. um So yeah, I think Baldwin, and I was raised in Apostolic Church, so the sort of, you know, I know there is my experience like of of, you know,
00:24:22
Speaker
Christianity and just trying to process that. So those emotions, right? um Toxic Christianity. um And sort of, I feel like Baldwin really gave me a sense of like, um okay, this is your experience, but this is another way you can look at it. This is another way you can revisit it. In terms of how I decide to write the book, um I have an agent named Tanya McKinney.
00:24:44
Speaker
and i Initially, I intended on writing a middle grade novel. I love prose. I love fiction. Although I'm a poet, I think of myself as I use poetry to work out my prose. But I was, we were going back and forth and I wasn't ready. Truth is, I wasn't ready. I still needed to develop my craft. Because I never wrote a novel before. I mean, I felt like writing a novel, I'm a poet, but writing a novel, I felt like I was teaching myself how to write again. But I noticed that the more I would read Baldwin's writing,
00:25:13
Speaker
I ended up learning that he was a poet himself. So that fascinated me. And I also learned that he would use poetry to work out his prose, right? Baldwin is, and I think of his writing, I think of images, right? And I'm like, you know, I read a lot of, you know, different picture book biographies. A lot of them, you know, for me was declative sentences, such as straightforward sentences, you know, which is fine, you know, that narrative is fine.
00:25:38
Speaker
But I was like, what if I wrote a biography where it's pretty much um loosely based around poetry? You know, like I want to use sort of like my language abilities um through poetry to sort of tell this sort of account of this, my literary hero, everyone's literary hero is James Baldwin. And then I was really fascinated with sort of Baldwin's relationship with his family.
00:25:59
Speaker
And I was like, this whole um image of Baldwin holding a book in one hand and his siblings in the other, you know, Baldwin, um, and if you pay attention to Baldwin's earliest work, he focused hit his earlier earliest work is, um, earlier work is filled with his childhood. Right. Baldwin is always trying to get us to see the child within the adult. Right. So I was like, let me just focus on his childhood. I mean, we all know ball in the.
00:26:24
Speaker
you know, the adult, you know, Jimmy with a cigarette dangling from his lips, you know, the arrested speaker. What about James Ball and the kid who read every book in the Harlem library? He felt, if I could just read every book in the Harlem library, I could read, I enter any building in the world, right? So I wanted to sort of like focus on that with more of a lyrical arc. Like, for example, the first line is, you know, I could have said, you know, James Ball in love with words, but you know, I want to, how could I use a poetry device to describe his affinity for language? So maybe how about this? The first time James Baldwin read a book, the words clung to him like glitter, right? So you have sort of like the, so that sort of, sort of like that sort of queer mirage of like, you know, the glitter. And, you know, I just wanted to just sort of evoke Jimmy, the child and the conscience of young people. Yes. Yes. I love that. I love that. Wow. How long?
00:27:12
Speaker
did it take you to get, and I love talking about process, but I think everyone, you know, everyone has their own process and how they write and how they create. How long did it take you to get to, from the agent phase to the manuscript phase to the contract phase? Wow, I know, right? So I always think of my journey as sort of chaotic.
00:27:41
Speaker
um i I do, you know, and I think this is the importance of like when we have sort of these opportunities and platforms um to sort of also center other people. And someone took the time to sort of read, we met at school live and um they took up on themselves to share it with there with, you know, my agent now, Tanya McKinney, who then read my work and was apparently felt that, and you know, my writing was very much at the heart was um for children.
00:28:12
Speaker
and felt that, you know, that I could actually write a middle grade novel. And I'm like, what? And actually, I was trying to write in an adult fiction project. And she said, how about we just petition you for adult fiction later? Let's focus on the middle grade part. um But yeah, so someone referred my work to Tanya, Tanya and Dan. um We were just brainstorming, um going back and forth for the novel project. um You know, that what that wasn't ready. So I just,
00:28:41
Speaker
You know, I was sorry thinking about my experience as an educator. I'm like, you know what? There are no books on Baldwin. There are none. There are no picture book biographies on Baldwin. We have Sojourner Truth, Harriet Tubman, Ruby. You know, we have Malcolm X, you know, Nelson Mandela, Ruby Bridges. There are no books on picture book on Baldwin at the time. Now there is now.
00:29:02
Speaker
Um, we just came out in January of this past, this past January. Um, and so at the time when I had submitted my work, there was nothing out there. And so I was really thinking about my students was like, I feel like my students deserve to have an introduction to Baldwin.
00:29:17
Speaker
So um I wrote a ball one biography, a lot of research, went to Paris, believe it or not. We went to St. Paul's events, hung out in the Cabochon, you know, and got to see the dictionary he used, you know, um got to see his typewriter, um you know, hung out in Paris, you know. and It was, it was, it was, it was, went to some of the same cafes he went to. That's incredible. This was the people who, who happened to like party with Baldwin, much older now, you know. um That's incredible. It was, yeah. And, you know, I wrote this novel, you know, submitted to my agent, and she said, this is it. Wow. And we, and, and, you know, and it was ah a series around editing, because you, as you know, writing is rewriting. And, you know, to my, I feel like I was since lucky, since we put it out there. and
00:30:05
Speaker
And you know, and Little Brown reached out and they said, you know, his work, Cortez's work is staggering at a time. They know what that word meant. It's my favorite word now. I looked it up. I'm like, Oh, okay. I'll get it now. All right. That's a compliment. You know? ah And you know, once my agent said Little Brown was interested in it, you know, um, um, Scholax has reached out and it went up to auction and it was, it was 11 editor auction. Um, and then Little Brown was the only publisher that offered me, um, a, um,
00:30:33
Speaker
a book deal that involved a middle grade novel. So it's have two it's a three book deal, two picture books and a middle grade novel. um And the middle grade novel is slated to come out the fall of 2025.
00:30:51
Speaker
So yeah, right. But you know we know that stuff like that can be pushed back. Who knows, right? So yeah, I'm actively editing that at right now. My second draft is due June 5th. Dave. Yeah. So yeah, it's still, you know, writing for me, it's a, it's a, it's a complicated process. I'm still learning my process. I learned that I write better in the morning. Yeah. I learned that I need to read before I start writing a source of my language. Oh, I love that. Yeah. i And it's, and you know, reading for me, it kind of gives me almost like a template for the level of um rigor or quality right I'm aiming for. And I read the things I love.
00:31:29
Speaker
and that who i love that idea yeah And that sort of fuels my sort of creativity. And so I'll read a chapter and then I'll start writing. And then when I get stuck, I read again. wow So reading is very much um something that I feel like is transformative for me.
00:31:48
Speaker
um To ensure that sort of give me sort of that creative like um I guess you could say verb to just focus on like, okay All right, they can i like for example, Jacqueline listens. I love Jacqueline with his writing, you know, she's a very lyrical writer She writes and prose but her poems are very, you know visual So I would read a lot of Jacqueline work listens work just to kind of get going and just to feel like okay I can I can kind of I can do it too, right? Mm-hmm I think that's such a smart idea because we know the giants that came before us yeah and the work that they've done and we can easily be inspired by looking at their work. yeah I think that's such a good idea. I think oftentimes when I feel unnecessarily writer's block or I feel tired or I'm just a little bit unsure of like where my writing's going, I will read. I think I like the idea of just reading purposefully for like more inspiration or
00:32:42
Speaker
remind yourself and that, that could mean it's not necessarily something that you just have in your stack. It could be something that you've already read, or it is something that is going to motivate you to just believe again, because know it's not easy to sit specifically with a picture. But it can be, I mean, I can't count the number of times where I spent a day changing like two lines. Yep.
00:33:12
Speaker
yep And you're like, look at the time when you're like, it's afternoon, and you're still reworking two lines. Yeah, I think we need to just hold up and just, what and you know, we're both picture book writers. Picture books are really hard to write. I mean, I know you have the economy of language, but it's like, you feel like every single word matters.
00:33:37
Speaker
You have no room, there's no margin of error, right? And it's like, you're just moving one word. It's like you're moving these words around. You're hoping they sort of, they compliment each other. They may not. It's just really hard to do. That's why I think children should write in picture books. We should think that children do it. I agree. I totally agree. It is, I mean, I knew that writing was hard. I knew that it would take time.
00:34:07
Speaker
I think when when I got to the phase where we were just working at a few different sections, working out a few different words and or phrases, I didn't realize because sometimes your editor would be like, okay, well, we have to do something with this specific part. But you feel like in your heart, it's like,
00:34:27
Speaker
I don't have anything left. like this is I thought this was the one. I thought this was the part. And I mean, I felt like at the time my editor did the right thing, but she kept pushing me saying, well, spend some time with it, see how you feel, write down some like flash drafts or do whatever you need to. Because I did and i did end up finding what I needed. But at the time, I was like,
00:34:54
Speaker
I was stressed. I was like, I don't know if I have anything left for this book. Isn't it fascinating to hear your experience how we look at books on display? and and they appear to be sort of this product that wasn't really worked upon. You don't really see the rigor in that process. And oftentimes when when there's a book on display, you only see the writer. You don't see sort of the editor in ah and the background, in the backstory, right? So like, would you say that um sort of having sort of this, real like what was your relationship with your editor? I wanna hear a little bit more about that.
00:35:33
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I was super grateful. um My editor at the time was Donna, Donna Bray. And I have a new editor now for my second and second book. Okay, second? All right, on the horizon. Second book, second book, comment, second book. So one of the things I really enjoyed about Donna was that she, I think it was the idea of just like, knowing the buttons to push.
00:36:03
Speaker
and not allowing me to settle for even phrases or lines that either looked good or sound good. She really ah part encouraged me to find the heart of like the moments and if there was no heart there we would take it out and she would ask me to really dig and see what else is there and and she said one of the things that she felt I did well was like making things um specific to my experience but also like very universal
00:36:35
Speaker
And like I didn't even know I was really doing that at the time, but as she was like explaining it to me, it made me like think more about the different moments that I wanted to express through the story. And I mean, um it still it was a whole learning process for me, because i had never had my first editor is my wife. like she but I'll send her anything.
00:36:52
Speaker
i She'll critique and she'll give me ideas and I'll get revisions back from my editor and then I'll make some edits and I'll give it back to my wife. That sounds my parents. The same We have in-health editors. Right? And they're amazing. And they're amazing. right And they're amazing. So I think our relationship was great in a sense where she really pushed me. And she did say like there are moments where like there's lines that if there's lines that you are like very, very you know attached to. And I mean, she said, like that happens. like You can obviously talk about that, and we can have conversation around that. But before we get there, she said, really think about whether or not, like is this moving the story? Is there anything else? And that was hard for me, because I really,
00:37:45
Speaker
you know the book was finished and then I think we revised it for almost like a year and some after a year and a half almost after I had signed the contract as well. So you're like, oh, is it ever going to come out? but Oh yeah. Oh yeah. but The delays, right? And I want to comment on, that is so true as far as like, um because you're a poet clearly, right? And We do, um and not even just writers. Sometimes we sort of, I don't know, like we over um identify with a line and we're like, this is the line and we are, we are.
00:38:26
Speaker
gripping on that line. We don't want to let it go. We don't want to lose it. We don't want to release it, right? And um and sometimes um that's hard to separate yourself from a musical line. Maybe it's a line that you're like, I came up with that? I don't want to see it go. And and enough and I feel like I've had my editor have made the same comments or sort of um you know my sort of peers or people I sort of reach out for feedback is like, you know tell the story.
00:38:51
Speaker
you know story um the story The story, it needs to move forward. I remember, what's the writer's name? Jasmine Ward.
00:39:05
Speaker
Zeta Smith, she said, you know, if we only reduce good writing to a line, like sentence by sentence, that's not story, right? And there are wonderful books out there and you won't be able to appreciate the story if you're only focusing on the musicality of a sentence. So the musicality of a sentence does not constitute or make, you know, it doesn't sort of evolve the book, you know, the story does.
00:39:30
Speaker
So now that's something I'm still learning like I'm working on in the middle grade now and I am someone who I love a lyrical line. And it's like line by line. I want you to see something but it's like but what's happening? Sometimes you're mistaken story for description or visuals. Yeah. So yes. Yeah, I just want to come on the editorial process because I think again, readers, you know, if you're not a writer, but you're just someone who are that are not aware of the process, you just may, it may look like we have a writer's art. This is a ah very maroon experience, maroon experience, but it involves in many minds ah um of many people. It does. It does. And it takes, you know, all the, I want to call it stress because I do believe that it's
00:40:18
Speaker
it's a it's a stress that i ahve I've always wanted to be in this position. So I hate word stress. But it does make it does challenge you to think about things differently. it does Yeah, I don't want to, at times, I think I've identified it as stress. But again, I don't, it's hard because I've always wanted to be in a position where I can share my words. And now I'm like, able to do it. So I think I'd rather say it was more of a challenge, and something that stretched my thinking at the time. um Because now I feel better about when the edits come back or when I have to rethink things. Like I know that i'm I know I can get there. I can get there. Yeah, I now I now feel like I can make it to the point of like changing something or feeling good about it. Versus like, initially knowing like, oh my gosh, like I don't know where to go. And I think that has just come through that practice with that first one, to be honest, because
00:41:15
Speaker
The first one was like, okay, but then the second one was like, second one's always, always the hardest. It's always the hardest. You know, someone told me that sort of the, think of sort of the editorial um sort of process or the editorial like component of writing as a conversation. And you mentioned, and and you mentioned stress and and I learned this recently, there's this is term called you stress, which is a positive form of stress that has like these healthy benefits, such as motivation, you know, and it makes so like there. So like, yeah, we are we we are impacted by stress, but we also are impacted by positive stress because we get to do the thing like Kyrie was saying that we love. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, I think that's that is also that's also true. A couple more questions.
00:42:07
Speaker
um What What do you feel your ultimate goal as a writer will be um in the future?
00:42:21
Speaker
um o at thats a That's a really, really good question. You know, something I'm um um'm always thinking about is, and and and this I didn't say this is a quote and it's a statement of, I don't know,
00:42:40
Speaker
what I feel until I read. Um, and I also want people to feel like they're not alone. Um, I think at times, you know, it's, you can feel lonely and you feel like, you know, no one understands, you know, and, but then you pick up a book and you're like, wait a minute. It's like, Hmm.
00:43:10
Speaker
Let me revisit that statement. In fact, I'm not as hollowed out as I once thought. I'm not as empty. I'm not as alone. There are real experiences, you know figurative experiences you know that very much center my reality, such as I mentioned in the comment of you you're you're sort of your um your book. And there were certain scenes that made me think about like you know my childhood. right and you think I'm the only one eating bologna sandwiches, you know, deep fried bologna sandwiches, you know, and it's like, and that's a metaphor for a lot of different things. We don't have to dive into that, but it there is a sense of like, I want people to come away from my work and feeling like they have a deeper sense of who they are, but also I want people to come to our work and realize like, wow, like I am not, you know, on this, I'm not experiencing this world alone.
00:44:08
Speaker
You know, I am not experiencing um sort of my stress, my traumas, my fears, my anxieties alone. Though I may feel that way, and that's valid too to feel that way, but to sort of have that sort of reassurance that, you know what, like, I know, I know you right now, you feel lonely, but yet there is a breath of many other people who are breathing just like you, who are thinking just like you, who feel just like you. So yeah, I want people to step away and just kind of sort of um have a better sense of who they are and how they feel and to not feel diminished, you know, and not feel invalidated because they feel a certain type of way. I love that. To feel like they're not alone. I mean, that is, isn't that the goal for all writers to help peers and people feel like they're not alone? Like that's what books do, right? Books are supposed to connect humans, connect them to different worlds and experiences, et cetera.
00:45:10
Speaker
You're doing it. I'm excited for you. I am so excited for you. Likewise. I can't wait to see what you continue to do. And I appreciate all the gifts that you continue to share share with us and more that will continue to share throughout your your career. So ah where can people find you online? Yes. So um according to my mom, if you Google my name, spelled quatez Q-U-A-R-C-E-Z, like quarter, you take off the R, you add a Z, Harris, H-A-R-R-I-S, a article of me somewhere will pop up and you can learn a little bit more about me. But me and my fiance are featured in a magazine called Cleveland Scene. If you just type in my name and her name is Courtney Morrow, she's a writer too, you'll find us roaming the internet somewhere. You do, that's so true though, because actually I was on your website like a while ago.
00:46:07
Speaker
before I did that, I put it in Google and you have a lot of articles. Yeah. A lot of local articles, you know, local, local, local, you know. We got, we got a lot of articles. Yeah. It feels, yeah. ah Yeah. Right. So yeah, you can, um, you can definitely, um, Google me. I, I, it's not enough to have a Wikipedia page, but it's enough to have a thumbprint. No, you're, you are doing a amazing work and I i appreciate you so much. And before we go, I just want to say, Gary, um I really watching your videos um up and and I know you have sort of created like a almost like a blog. Is that how you pronounce it? Yeah, of sort of the process. It really helped me to sort of like, find joy in celebrating my process. And it really helped me to celebrate myself. I think I'm in someone who I'm a compulsive striver. If I've
00:47:04
Speaker
conquer one, go on to the next. I don't really visit the moment while I'm in it. So seeing you celebrate your moment, it's like I was so happy to support you, which is why I ran out and bought 10 books for my local publisher. I sure did. you know Because I wanted to express, that was my way of expressing my gratitude. And I pass around the children. And so thank you for celebrating. I'm i'm looking forward to seeing your um literary future um continue to shine. And yeah, and likewise, likewise.