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Anticipatory Grief and How We're *REALLY* Feeling
43 Plays5 years ago
Last week, the Harvard Business Review posted an article called, "That Discomfort You're Feeling is Grief" and it struck a chord with many people in these strange days of COVID-19. In this episode, Michelle and Lindsay take a closer look at some of the standout points of this article and discuss how it can help us pinpoint how we're *really* feeling right now.
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Transcript
Introduction to Episode 63
00:00:00
Speaker
You just say hi, I'm Michelle again. Well, I'll say the whole thing again. I feel like I started two octaves too low for my voice. Like ran out of air. Okay, let me try. All right.
00:00:28
Speaker
Welcome back to the Modern Lady Podcast. You're listening to Episode 63. Hi, I'm Michelle. And I'm Lindsay, and it's good to be back.
Impact of COVID-19 Pandemic
00:00:38
Speaker
As so often happens in life, circumstances can quickly change. Over the last few weeks, many of us have experienced varying degrees of upheaval, inconvenience, and uncertainty stemming from worry over COVID-19, or the coronavirus.
00:00:54
Speaker
It is natural to respond to such times with weariness, caution, and concern, but we here at the Modern Lady Podcast wanted to hop back on here to discuss matters with you, our listener friends, as we always do, like friends chatting over coffee around our kitchen table. But first, if you enjoy this episode of the Modern Lady Podcast,
00:01:13
Speaker
We ask that you take a few minutes to rate and review us on iTunes or whatever app you use to listen to our podcast. We love bringing brand new content to you on a weekly basis and reading your feedback means so much to us. Please let us know what you think of today's episode and share it with a friend.
Engaging the Audience
00:01:29
Speaker
And if you would like to leave us a comment, you can do so on our website www.themodernlady1950.wordpress.com or you can leave us a comment on Facebook or Instagram where you can find us at the Modern Lady podcast.
Historical Toilet Paper Alternatives
00:01:49
Speaker
But before we get into today's chat, Lindsay has our Modern Lady Tip of the Week.
00:01:55
Speaker
Michelle, over the last few weeks, there have been two words that have dominated the headlines. Toilet paper. Stores are still sold out across the world as people rush to their supermarkets to stock up at the onset of this pandemic that we are currently in. Today I present to you what I feel is the best non toilet paper alternative that I could find. And trust me, I did a lot of research about this.
00:02:19
Speaker
Allow me, along with former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, to suggest corn cobs. Apparently corn cobs have long been the stand-in in outhouses across the United States, and I'm guessing Canada too. So you can either use the husks, preferably the inner husks, which are slightly softer than the outer ones, but an actual cob, yeah, the cob with the corn removed, please, is apparently not as uncomfortable as one might think.
00:02:46
Speaker
Apparently it's so effective that many people continued using corn cobs even after toilet paper became readily available. This really does seem like the best alternative that I discovered when searching for ancient ways to clean ones behind. The idea of using broken pottery shards like the ancient Greeks or clam shells like the Native Americans just isn't as appealing for me. The worst option of all seems to become from ancient Rome. They used a communal sponge on a stick dipped in a mixture of vinegar and water.
00:03:16
Speaker
Wow. Oh, all right. Lots of process here. Um, okay. So, you know, at first when we started talking about the options, I was like, no, corn cobs, no.
00:03:31
Speaker
But hearing the other ancient practices, I was like, that's right, corn cobs. I'm wondering what the timeline is. Are we looking at like June before we need the corn cobs? Like, let's just, what's the reality here? We need like the New York Times to do one of those maps that just show the availability of corn cobs.
00:03:51
Speaker
I do also appreciate the note to take the corn off first, please. Right. It's a dual functioning toilet paper. So we should probably just wrap it up. Wrap it up there. Yep. And we'll leave it there.
Emotional Complexity of the Pandemic
00:04:09
Speaker
How are you feeling? We have asked that of our families and friends countless times in the days and weeks of COVID-19. But have you paused to ask it of yourself lately?
00:04:20
Speaker
You and I have tried, right, Lindsay? But we've actually found that it's been almost impossible to put our fingers on it exactly how we're feeling. Yeah. In each of our phone conversations, we're feeling about 500 different things, right? Over the course of one phone conversation. And we know that we're not alone. That question, I feel like if you are honestly blessed enough to have some people in your life that you could talk to, I feel like we all start a conversation with, Hey, how you doing? Right. In that tone, the normal,
00:04:49
Speaker
And then it turns and then we say, no, how are you really doing? And that has only started in about the last week or so. This takes me back to even when I was postpartum after having my babies and my doctor would say, hey, how are you? You know, as he'd come in the room and then he'd sit down in his chair, he'd come closer to me, he'd get to my level, we'd lock eyes and he'd say, no, how are you really doing?
00:05:11
Speaker
And we know that shift in tone, that concern, it becomes real. And then we, if again, we're so blessed, we can open up to somebody about how we're really feeling. Right. Because, you know.
00:05:23
Speaker
all of the feelings. We're feeling all the feelings all the time, right? And there's so much that kind of comes with that and we'll kind of break it down a little bit hopefully over the course of this episode. But just, we're having trouble, I know I am at least, I'm having trouble acknowledging and accepting that feeling feelings
00:05:43
Speaker
are normal and in these circumstances feeling all the feelings is normal and valid. But yeah, it's striking a balance, I think, not wanting them to rule us while still being able to acknowledge that they're there.
00:06:01
Speaker
You make a great point. I read one article where they said that because we're like the self help book generation, we're the first people to have like a two tiered set of feelings. So we feel the feeling and then we feel the second feeling about the feeling because of all of the self help stuff that we've read. So we feel like in our brain, we go, I'm sad.
00:06:20
Speaker
And then immediately after we feel guilty about feeling sad because we tell ourselves why we shouldn't be feeling sad and why other people have more of a right to feel sad. And this is a really a new phenomenon, right? To have this two tiered response to something. And this article I was reading, he said, you can stop with the first part. I feel sad. I feel mad. I feel anxious. I feel silly right now. I feel joyful. I mean, those things are still happening too. And I liken it back to,
00:06:48
Speaker
You know, oh gosh, remember being a teenager and you're going through a breakup or something and you wake up in the morning and you have those two seconds where you feel like still happy and then it's like you're hitting your stomach and you're like, wait, all of these things are going on. That's happening every single day right now for me, for a lot of you, I get up, I'm like, Oh, it's a new morning.
00:07:07
Speaker
I stumbled to the bathroom and then I feel like I've been hitting my stomach and I'm like, nope, things aren't normal right now. And so it's one thing to just say, I'm not okay. And then we don't have to backfill it with all of the other feelings about those feelings. We don't have to do that right now. We can just feel what we're feeling. And that's actually a lot of the advice that we're going to give to our listeners today.
00:07:30
Speaker
Yeah, we've almost become all of our own analysts. And we're completely unqualified to do that. That's right. Right. It's just another thing we're an expert at right now. We are climate experts. We are pandemic experts. We are policy and political experts. And we're experts on our own feelings. And guess what? We're not experts on any of that. So we're going to go back a little bit and just really break this down into very simple terms that hopefully we can all move forward with.
00:08:00
Speaker
Yeah and you know you and I were reading this article just this morning actually we've both found it and it was from the Harvard Business Review and the article is titled that discomfort you're feeling is grief and I don't know about you but I saw that title and I was like
00:08:17
Speaker
Huh, interesting. And actually it says in the article too, like right at the very beginning, like if we name it, maybe we can manage it. And I was like, that is, this is so interesting. And so yeah, what did you think when you first read it?
00:08:32
Speaker
like you the headline just grabbed me it stopped me in my tracks i'm like oh okay and and so it was one of the few in the last couple days that i did click on and it's one of those two that you and i will both share and be like if you only read one thing today it's truly we're gonna quote so much of it we're practically giving you the whole article because it's just so good
00:08:51
Speaker
It was written by Scott Baranato and he is referencing a new book by David Kessler and David Kessler worked with Elizabeth Kubler-Ross who developed the Five Stages of Grief. In his new book he adds a sixth stage. So I'm going to just start with a quote from the article because I think it'll help everybody understand what they're talking about. So something that we're talking and that we're feeling is also called anticipatory grief.
00:09:16
Speaker
And it says anticipatory grief is that feeling we get about what the future holds when we're uncertain. Usually it centers on death. We feel it when someone gets a dire diagnosis or when we have the normal thought that we'll lose a parent someday. Anticipatory grief is also more broadly imagined futures.
00:09:34
Speaker
There's a storm coming. There's something bad out there. With a virus, this type of grief is so confusing for our people. Our primitive mind knows something bad is happening, but you can't see it. This breaks our sense of safety. We're feeling that loss of safety. I don't think we've collectively lost our sense of general safety like this. Individually or smaller groups, people have felt this. But altogether, this is new. And we're grieving on a micro and macro level.
00:10:02
Speaker
I loved that quote because when he said originally when I thought about the grieving and the feeling of grief
00:10:12
Speaker
I wasn't quite sure exactly what the loss was, being someone who's just quarantining for now. Right, and eating and watching Netflix. Right, right. But when they kind of go through what it is, we have all collectively lost. We've all lost a sense of normalcy. We've all lost that feeling of safety.
00:10:34
Speaker
And I was like, oh my goodness, that makes so much sense to me. And that no matter what your circumstance and situation in life, that's how it's collective. Like no matter what your normalcy was, you've lost it in some way. And they likened this back to 9-11 as being the last time we felt this, but even that was really only felt
00:10:54
Speaker
you know, strongly by people in New York City and then collectively maybe by the United States and then, you know, Western civilization, but not on the same scale. That's the closest we can come to this. And so just this idea that we all feel like something is coming, that we all can't control it, it is a terrifying feeling. And so I keep saying, I have a lot of friends I've been able to talk to about this and I'm really thankful for that.
00:11:22
Speaker
And all of our conversations are like, we all feel like we're the adult in the room and that we're still smiling and we're trying to like pretend like everything's okay. But we're all feeling like it's not okay. And we're all just waiting. We're all hovering at the cliff of it not being okay. And because we don't know when that is going to happen, when we're all going to have to transition to this next place where we are in our individual cities.
00:11:47
Speaker
It is this feeling of completely being out of control and having to still put a smile on your face because we're in the eye of the storm. Nothing is really happening. There's no bombs falling outside, right? We're not seeing death being rolled in front of our houses. We're not seeing it happening yet.
00:12:02
Speaker
But it's there. And so like what you're saying, combining that sense of worry and unease with the sense of what we have lost and then saying, but we haven't lost that much. No, the sense of loss is real. Yeah, you're so right. Because I think what's really hard is that this thing keeps changing right now, right? So even in other situations of crisis in history, there has often been able to pinpoint a common
00:12:30
Speaker
Focus or or an enemy or something like that, right? There is a face and a name to what exactly you're fighting against But for now anyways, it's faceless and it keeps changing and we don't know When that will stop but also we're we're not even sure how to fight if we're supposed to be fighting at all Yeah, it all feels very passive and vague and I don't think that humans are
00:12:58
Speaker
used to that kind of constant state of being vague and unable to pinpoint what it is we're supposed to be doing and when and how. Yeah, because if we look at our ancestry, right? Like the fight or flight, right? Fight or flight. We talk about this all the time. You knew what you had to fight and you knew what you had to run away from.
00:13:19
Speaker
We're feeling that right now, but there's nothing that seems imminent. And so we're in this constant state of fight or flight. I mean, that's what I'm feeling. I'm assuming you're feeling the same thing and I'm pretty sure a lot of our listeners are feeling that same thing. That's that ball in your stomach.
00:13:35
Speaker
And we're looking around, right? We're like trying to figure out, okay, where's the enemy? Where's the enemy? And it's just hidden right now. And we don't know how to arm ourselves. We don't know what to do. And then all we're told to do is to just sit back and watch TV and stay in our houses. And that doesn't feel like fighting, but it is. We know the science is telling us that that's the best thing we can do right now to combat what's going on.
00:13:57
Speaker
But for people who are in our primitive state that are used to fighting something, it certainly doesn't feel like we're doing anything. And that feels gross. I don't know how else to describe it. No, in 100%. I was going to say icky. Yes. Icky and gross. Yeah. But it's true because even if you look back in like World War II, the people who maybe weren't sent to the front lines, they were given jobs.
00:14:24
Speaker
and like very tangible jobs, even within the home, right? Like we talk about homemaking and homemaking during war times even, it was like you did your duty.
00:14:34
Speaker
at home and your duty was to plant a victory garden so that rations could be sent to the fighters on the front lines and your duty was to make sure that the blackout shades were drawn and like all of these different tasks you actually had tasks and they were tangible and you could feel like you had purpose but when it is a virus
00:14:57
Speaker
It's
Managing Anxiety with Mindfulness
00:14:58
Speaker
a little bit different because, yeah, when you're told to just stay home, we don't feel like that's enough. And it is, we know that rationally, but it doesn't feel like that. So you're right. And it's that constant, are we overreacting or underreacting? So we start to do a task, whatever it is, right? Whether it is buying a little extra food and we're not stockpiling.
00:15:20
Speaker
or preparing some freezer meals, right? Like we do a task and then we think, no, this is ridiculous. I'm totally overreacting. So then we spend a day where we don't do anything and we just hang out with our kids. And then we think, no, I should have done something today. I'm underreacting. And in fact, constant flux between overreacting and underreacting that just has us spinning. We're just going in circles going, I don't know what to do.
00:15:41
Speaker
I want to go back to anticipatory grief because there's just another great point in this article. So I'm going to quote again from this article. It says, unhealthy anticipatory grief is really anxiety. And that's the feeling that we're talking about here. Our mind begins to show us images. My parents getting sick. We see the worst scenarios. That's our minds being protective. Our goal is not to ignore those images or to try to make them go away because your mind won't let you do that. It can be painful to try to force it.
00:16:10
Speaker
The goal is to find balance in the things that we're thinking. So I found that to be really incredible because you can't fight it. I don't know how dark your thoughts have gone. Michelle might have gone pretty dark with different things over my life and in this circumstance as well. And so I know what he's talking about, about how painful it is to try to force those thoughts away. That doesn't happen. You can't just push them out all the time. So it's this idea of leaning into it a little bit.
00:16:38
Speaker
letting yourself think it. But then this author talks about coming into the present. Mindfulness is a really popular idea and has been for the last couple of years. Well, this is the time if you haven't walked into mindfulness. It's now meditators arise. It is times your ways come into the present.
00:16:58
Speaker
Yeah, so he talks about very briefly that if you are feeling that and your thoughts are going very dark and if you are a listener and you're a mom out there especially and your mind has gone really dark about thinking about things that could happen to your kids, you're not alone in that. I think that. And I'm sure you'll admit to thinking that too, Michelle.
00:17:16
Speaker
We want to let you know that you are certainly not alone in that. And I want to go a step further. I'm no psychologist, but I really believe as a mom that that is a way that we learn to ready ourselves to work hard to make that not happen. That it's actually a preparatory step and our fight as moms.
00:17:35
Speaker
But what we want to say here, back to mindfulness. So if you're in that dark place, the first thing you should do, OK, after you say, yep, I'm feeling this, is then name, look around your room and name five things in your room. So there's a computer, a chair, a picture, a rug, a coffee mug. It's that simple. Just pick five things and then you can step back and you can go, OK, none of the things that I'm thinking about right now have actually happened. It hasn't happened. We're not there yet in this moment.
00:18:04
Speaker
I'm okay. My kids are okay. We have food. Go through those things. It doesn't mean that those things aren't going to happen. They might happen to you. They might happen to me. But in this moment, it hasn't happened because our brains have a really hard time distinguishing between an actual threat and an imagined threat. Our brain and our body responds in the same way, like it's actually happening. And so why face that threat twice? Because you're going to already feel it all. And then you're going to feel it all again if it happens, right?
00:18:35
Speaker
Yeah, I really like that because what you're saying too is like it can be both helpful and not helpful at the same time, right? Like what you're saying as a mom, how we run through those circumstances in our heads.
00:18:50
Speaker
as moms and in a way it helps us to prepare for a possible situation in the future. I believe that, you know, that's probably one of the points of fear as an emotion, right? Like is to help ourselves prepare for something that could happen and to anticipate something. It's like a defense or a self-preservation thing. So in that way, it's natural. And so we don't have to feel badly about going through those things in our heads.
00:19:19
Speaker
But I do like just being able to notice when it's kind of overtaking you. And if you can practice at that time observing what it is happening right now, right here, right now, that can really help. And actually one of the signs and symptoms, I was looking at a list of signs and symptoms of anticipatory grief. One of them is poor concentration or forgetfulness.
00:19:46
Speaker
It's just kind of like that scatteredness in our brain. So every conversation we've had in the last week on the phone. Oh my gosh. I keep thinking sometimes when we talk on the phone, I'm like, we should stop here. Like this was a high note, but then we keep going because actually another sign and symptom is a desire to talk. And so we just keep going.
00:20:06
Speaker
And then I'm like, oh my gosh. That's a really good point. Can we just talk about the desire to talk? This is something you and I actually talked about and I've talked about this with many friends is that we, and we don't have any scientific knowledge basis for this, but one thing we've noticed is that there are quite a lot of us and a lot of us, especially as women that do need to just talk it out.
00:20:26
Speaker
that we're not panicking, we're not being hysterical, but I need to talk it out, especially with a friend, somebody I can trust where I can say to you my worst case scenario, and you don't think that I actually think that's going to happen tomorrow, that we just have all of the things I'm thinking in my, in my head, I'm just the type of person that needs to say those out loud so that I can process it. But again, it doesn't mean like I think it's going to happen. I just need to say it. And so it's, and I've found that to be the case with a lot of the women in my life. And so we're just saying it right now.
00:20:55
Speaker
This talking is so important right it because it almost It takes it out of your head right you can get it out of your head a little bit and you can also just Almost like you're running it by somebody Like you're test driving it right and so it's not just you and you're spiraling in your own thoughts You've spoken it into existence You have a trusted friend who will listen not judge you for it. Yeah, and
00:21:23
Speaker
And then they kind of validate that what you're feeling about it is okay, even though you both know that, you know, the situation may not be likely, right? And that in and of itself gives great comfort. And so for women especially, you're right, like being able to just speak your feelings and your thoughts into existence and have it land, so to speak, on a trusted friend is a consolation in and of itself.
00:21:49
Speaker
And this is really important for people who are catastrophic thinkers.
Catastrophic Thinking vs. Anticipatory Grief
00:21:52
Speaker
We do want to just touch on this idea of catastrophic thinking and how it is different than anticipatory grief. So I've always called myself a catastrophic thinker, but it was only in really researching it more I've realized that that's not exactly what I'm doing. So what this is is this is catastrophic thinking is the spiraling of realistic worries and understandable anxiety.
00:22:13
Speaker
that spirals into unusual and unlikely scenarios. So let's just break that down, first of all. There can be, and we are living it right now, today, realistic worries and understandable anxiety. Those two things are legit.
00:22:28
Speaker
today where we're living. But when it starts to go, unusual and unlikely scenarios, there's a turn. There's a dark turn there. So like we were saying with having a friend to lean on, this is where if you have a trusted somebody that you can talk to who can say, okay, that is not going to happen now. Yes, the other things you can be worried about, but where it's just taking this turn, um,
00:22:50
Speaker
Let's talk that out. Like they always use the plane crash example. And so saying that, you know, people are terrified of getting on a plane. And so there can be realistic worries with that. But then when somebody says to you, I trust a friend, let's look up statistics. Let's look up the science. That's where you can say this is unlikely and unusual that a plane does crash. So I'm hoping that makes sense.
00:23:13
Speaker
I think that for a lot of people, and I'm one of these people that have had experienced trauma out of nowhere, that have had something very shocking come to them in their past out of nowhere, we then tend to think that's never going to happen to me again. I'm never going to be caught off guard. I'm never going to be
00:23:31
Speaker
Having to be defensive again i'm going to be on the offensive so that people who've had that and it's a lot of people Um when we've experienced that in the past every time a crisis comes up like right now Um, we don't ever want to be caught off guard again. So we have to play through every scenario Okay, the thing that also contributes to catastrophic thinking spiraling out of control and then amplifying our anxiety is then this
00:23:57
Speaker
knowledge then that we are spiraling and then going, Oh man, I'm freaking out. I'm totally freaking out over this. I can't believe I'm having catastrophic thoughts over this. And then we're just like shoveling it even further, right? We're just going down, down, down with it. And that's not helping with any of it. So again, back to the beginning where lean into it. You can just say, I'm feeling sad. Period. I'm feeling anxious. Period. We don't have to then step outside of that further.
00:24:24
Speaker
And then think, well, I shouldn't be feeling this or everybody else has it so much worse or any of those other things. If there's one thing you walk away from this episode with, it's just thinking it's okay to say I'm scared. Period. I'm anxious. Period.
00:24:38
Speaker
Now I really like that. It just kind of simplifies, right? We always talk about simplifying in our homes and in our schedules and things like that, but mentally too. Simplify. You can just sit with one feeling without having to justify it all the time. Yeah, absolutely. And I find that comforting for sure.
00:24:59
Speaker
And so going back to the article for just one last time, he actually ends with adding his own point at the end of these stages of grief that he borrowed from a colleague. But he talks about being able to find meaning in your grief and how necessary that was when he himself was experiencing grief at one point in his life.
00:25:23
Speaker
And I found that such an interesting point that we can remember and remind ourselves of while we're here right in it right now.
00:25:34
Speaker
And so one of the things that I have actually been doing, and I didn't realize that this probably could be considered finding meaning in this time of grief, is I've turned to God, as we often do, for those of us, especially if we're Christian or Catholics. And spiritually speaking, my focus has been trying to be honest with God,
00:25:58
Speaker
about how I'm feeling. And it's just like talking to him, saying like, God, I don't actually understand at all what you're doing here, or what is happening around me. But whatever it is, I'm 100% in, like you have me to use however you need to.
00:26:16
Speaker
And whatever I have, show me where I can give it. Just make it obvious. And this has just really helped me in the past few weeks give my struggling purpose and meaning and that I still can feel useful in a deep spiritual way, even when physically and materially I have to stay home. And that makes me feel quite taken out of the game.
Compassion During Crisis
00:26:39
Speaker
And I think that what's really important here is that in this, I want us to also take the last lesson from this article. He talks about that it's a good time to quote stock up on compassion. He talks about how he was talking with a colleague who was a bit snippy and he was like taking it back at first, but then he thought, no, this person is feeling all of these things too. This is not how so-and-so normally acts. This is how they're acting in this time right now because of what they're feeling.
00:27:06
Speaker
So if we just can step back and look at our own feelings and legitimize them, it's also important to do that for the feelings of everybody else around us. We're all feeling this. Our feelings are all changing minute to minute sometimes. And so it's a good time to stock up on our compassion. If we can't physically help everybody because we are constrained to our houses, we still can show compassion and love and charity in other ways to our neighbors.
00:27:35
Speaker
Okay, it's time for our What We're Loving This Week segment of the show.
Recommended Series and Books
00:27:40
Speaker
So, Lindsay, what have you been loving this week? Well, you mentioned Victory Gardens, and I think I've actually shared these before on the podcast, but it is the apropos time to share them again. I have been long obsessed with what we call the farm videos.
00:27:54
Speaker
And so out of England, they produced a series, multiple TV series featuring these historians and archaeologists. So you get Tudor Monastery Farm, Victorian Farm, Edwardian Farm, and then Wartime Farm. And these archaeologists and historians, this team, live on these farms in England for an entire year. They live it. They have to farm that land. They have to take care of the house. They have to do all the stuff.
00:28:20
Speaker
And each episode, there's 12 episodes, and each one is an hour, so it's one month of that year. And I watched them. I'm like, well, I'm totally a farmer now. Like, I'm an expert. Obviously, yeah. We'll drive through farmland. And I'm like, I know why they're doing that. I saw that on Victorian Farm.
00:28:38
Speaker
So not only there is practical stuff, you'll walk away from it, especially the wartime farm series, I think is really applicable to what we're kind of going through right now with so many people talking about planting gardens as spring is coming right now. So they're entertaining, they're informative, they're really great to watch as a family. Most of them are available on YouTube. I don't usually
00:29:00
Speaker
I suggest watching things for free on YouTube if you can give the money to the appropriate source. But they're really hard to buy. I did manage to find a DVD set of Edwardian Farm for myself and had it sent over from England and it was ridiculously expensive. But I don't think that there's a way to pay for them any other way. So go ahead, watch them on YouTube. Excellent series.
00:29:20
Speaker
I love that. And what are you loving this week? Well, I'm piggybacking off of your wartime recommendation with a novel that I finished. And I actually finished this a few weeks ago, but I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. It's called Lovely War by Julie Berry. And it was a delightful read. It was really pleasant and easy to get through.
00:29:45
Speaker
It was actually recommended by one of my favourite bloggers, Everyday Reading, on Instagram. And it follows four young people during World War I who are pulled together due to circumstances of war.
00:29:59
Speaker
But it takes a bit of a twist, like it's a little bit romance, it's a little bit wartime drama, and it's a little bit Greek mythology. So that part I actually really loved how it all fit in together, but I won't say any more about it because I don't want to give away how it does fit together.
00:30:19
Speaker
Yeah for me this really hit basically all the marks of a novel and if that is something that interests you then this might be a great book to try to find online or through Overdrive or any of your online library websites while we're at home for the next little bit.
00:30:40
Speaker
Okay, that's going to do it for us this week. If you want to get in touch and chat with us about our topic today, you can find us on our website www.themodernlady1950.wordpress.com or leave us a comment on Facebook or Instagram at The Modern Lady Podcast.
00:30:58
Speaker
I'm Michelle Sacks, and you can find me on Instagram at mmsacks. And I'm Lindsay Murray, and you can find me on Instagram at Lindsay Hellmaker. Thank you so much for listening. Have a great week, and we will see you next time.