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On Dopamine and the Art of Being Fully Alive
1.1k Plays11 months ago
Everywhere you look in today’s culture, there is an invitation to escape the uncomfortable and unpleasant things in life, and to indulge instead in things that make us feel good. But when the balance tips too far in favour of complete exclusion of anything other than pleasure, one may have to stop to consider… is this truly the way to long-lasting happiness, or is there an even deeper truth that we may be missing? This week, we are chatting about dopamine detoxes: what we've been hearing and seeing online, and why now might just be the best time to consider doing one!
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Transcript
Introduction & Podcast Support
00:00:00
Speaker
Types of wheat contain varying levels of protein and a quote and this now I'm gonna take out the quote It's that's not I thought was a longer quote until he saw it
Dopamine Detox Introduction
00:00:29
Speaker
Welcome back to the Modern Lady Podcast. You're listening to episode 146. Hi, I'm Michelle. And I'm Lindsay, and today we are talking about dopamine detox. Everywhere you look in today's culture, there is an invitation to escape the uncomfortable and unpleasant things in life and to indulge instead in things that make us feel good.
00:00:51
Speaker
But when the balance tips too far and too often in favor of complete exclusion of anything other than pleasure, one may have to stop to consider, is this truly the way to long-lasting happiness? Or is there an even deeper truth that we may be missing?
00:01:08
Speaker
But first, the best way that you can support The Modern Lady is by subscribing to our podcast on whatever app you use to listen to podcasts and by sharing us with your friends. We also welcome you to join us over at patreon.com forward slash The Modern Lady podcast, where for just $5 a month, you will get exclusive and extra content.
00:01:28
Speaker
Michelle and I want to give a shout out to our newest Patreon members this week. It means so much to us that you could support us in this special way. Thank you to Emma who has joined us for $5 a month as a friend of the Modern Lady podcast. Emma has access to all of our extra content.
00:01:43
Speaker
We also want to give a shout out to Barbara and Heather, who joined Patreon under the free option. Thank you for your support. We want to remind our listeners that we have now activated a free trial option on Patreon. So while you can just follow the page for free, if you actually sign up for a free trial, you will have access to all of our extra content for seven days. And then you can decide if you'd like to join us as a paid member.
00:02:07
Speaker
And if you can't join us on Patreon at this time, a free way to support our show is by leaving it a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. It's a chance to tell us what you love about the show and it helps others discover it too.
00:02:23
Speaker
This week's shout out goes to Marti at Beast Italy on Instagram, who sent me such a lovely message about the podcast and said, quote, let me take this chance to say that I laugh so much when I listen to you and Lindsay and it really makes my day. I haven't figured out how to rate it on Google podcasts yet, but it's surely five out of five stars for me. Thank you and all the best to you two and your families. End quote.
00:02:50
Speaker
Well, thank you so much Marty for your encouragement, support and your message. We love it when our listeners share our senses of humor and laugh along with us through the episodes. If you would like to leave us a comment or message us about today's episode, the best way to get in touch with us is on Instagram at the Modern Lady podcast. But be sure to stay tuned to the end of the episode for other ways to connect because we would love to hear from you.
Tip of the Week: Pasta Queen & Flour Types
00:03:21
Speaker
But before we get into today's chat, Lindsay has our modern lady tip of the week.
00:03:26
Speaker
Have you all discovered the Pasta Queen on Instagram yet? You can find her at the underscore Pasta Queen and she is one of my favorite people to follow. She made a great reel talking about double-O flour and how it's different from all the other kinds of flour. All I know is that I use double-O flour when I am making pasta from scratch, but this sent me down a rabbit hole all about flour and now I'm taking you down it with me.
00:03:55
Speaker
So when you google different types of flower, you get answers like 13 types of flower and how to use them, 21 different types of flower, 10 types of flower, 12 types of flower, and the oh my goodness you've got to be kidding me, 61 different types of flower subtitled the definitive users guide. And I'm all okay let's simplify this. So first things first.
00:04:17
Speaker
According to KitchenAid.com, different types of wheat contain varying levels of protein and it is the amount of protein that differentiates most of the different kinds of flour. Most flour is made from wheat or as I just learned from wheat cousins within the wheat family. Whole wheat grain, also known as wheat kernel or wheat berry, is harvested and then milled.
00:04:40
Speaker
This milling process dates back to at least 6,000 BC, although a recent archaeological find might date bread making back as far as 14,000 years ago. Little has changed in the actual milling process. The different types of flour depend on how much of the wheat germ and endosperm have been removed and this affects those protein levels I mentioned earlier.
00:05:04
Speaker
The basic breakdown is hard wheat versus soft wheat. Hard wheat has more protein and is perfect for a yeasted bread. And soft wheat has less protein and makes great pastries and cake. One last thing about protein. The more protein in the flour results in stronger gluten production. Gluten is formed when dough or batter is stirred and kneaded.
00:05:26
Speaker
The next thing you might notice when you are standing and looking at the shelves upon shelves of flour is that some is bleached and some is unbleached. I always thought this was simply a method to produce whiter flour versus a more natural color, but bleaching it, which is a chemical process which uses chlorine dioxide and benzoyl dioxide, actually speeds up the flour's aging process, which not only lightens the color but also makes the flour softer and finer.
00:05:54
Speaker
Now this is going to end up being a two-part tip of the week because we're barely scratching the surface here. Next week I will discuss the different types of wheat flour but to finish up for today I will briefly list the most popular non-wheat flours. Here are just a few examples and these are all gluten-free.
00:06:11
Speaker
rice flour, tapioca flour, potato flour, buckwheat flour, amaranth flour, corn flour, chickpea flour, and oat flour. And the most popular one, and it's one I've used many times, almond flour. So let's return to this next week and look at the different types of wheat flours.
Understanding Dopamine & Its Role
00:06:29
Speaker
You can wait until then, Michelle. With baited breath. With my slice of bread poised right in front of my mouth, ready to bite into it.
00:06:41
Speaker
That is so interesting because you're right, sometimes when I'm baking, especially when a recipe calls for a type of flour that I don't have on hand,
00:06:50
Speaker
Sometimes I wonder like, oh, can I just like substitute it for something else I have in my pantry? Obviously I'll have like all purpose flour usually, but even sometimes like whole wheat flour or the pastry and cake flour. And I just can't help but think like understanding flour itself a little bit more would help even in those like substitute moments. Like you could pick a closer relative we'll say.
00:07:17
Speaker
Yes, and it's true because I was reading that like obviously the best pastry chefs and bakers they know their flour like they really use specific flours for specific end products and so Yeah, there's actually little did I know that there was so much information that we just had to like actually Explain the flour before we can even talk about the different types next week. But yeah, I don't I find it fascinating
00:07:46
Speaker
Anna Lemke, author of the book Dopamine Nation, has said, quote, the reason we're all so miserable may be because we're working so hard to avoid being miserable, end quote. In a time where it's never been easier to avoid unpleasantries, it's a startling thought that maybe, ironically, this pursuit isn't actually going to make us any happier. Right, Lindsay?
00:08:12
Speaker
Yeah. And this is something I think that you and I are really familiar with as Catholics. We're laughing as we're like, yay, suffering. But it really is a part, like it's a foundational part of our faith, right? Like we really understand, we'll get a lot more into this as we approach the advent part of this conversation later on. But this idea that pain isn't something that we necessarily have to dull or run away from every time.
00:08:40
Speaker
I think is really, really interesting. And I think most people would agree that that is more common today in 2023 that people are trying to dull and suppress and just not feel any pain, right? And so the answer is pleasure, right? They see all these types of pleasure. And then before you know it, you become addicted to pleasure. And like with any addiction, you need more and more and more. And one of the things that is a huge contributor to this is dopamine.
00:09:08
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I think it was a topic of interest for us, especially, you're right, like in relation to our faith, we're always so excited when culture intersects with something in our faith. And it's truly interesting that in our culture that seeks so much pleasure is pretty hedonistic, right? That this is actually the emerging trend.
00:09:37
Speaker
that people are starting to go the opposite way. And so naturally that piqued our interest and it leads to so much in our biology, which is fascinating. Okay. So what is dopamine? Well, here's the simple answer and it's from the very trusty source, WebMD. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter that plays a role in pleasure, motivation, and learning.
00:10:03
Speaker
Now, Harvard Medical School. So we'll go from WebMD to Harvard Medical School. There's nothing in the middle. We have to cover all the bases. Yes. They have an article titled Dopamine the Pathway to Pleasure written by Stephanie Watson, and it goes into more depth. So, pleasure. Think cookies, shopping, marital relations. That's my family-friendly way of saying it.
00:10:26
Speaker
And then think about wanting to do those things again and again. Two cookies, three cookies, more online purchases. And this is where we can see the dark side of dopamine, because drugs and alcohol can also be pleasurable, but are far more dangerous and risky than chocolate chip cookies or another book from Amazon.
00:10:45
Speaker
So we see there that dopamine is inextricably linked with pleasure, right? And so there can be the good forms of pleasure and not good forms, but yeah, it's a neurotransmitter. So there you go. Yeah. Okay. Well, thanks WebMD and Harvard. That's very succinct.
00:11:04
Speaker
Yeah, I was so interested to learn more about dopamine, and I started thinking to myself, I'm like, well, why does it exist, you know, in the first place, then? Like, if seeking pleasure all the time is not a great thing, then why do we have such a strong
00:11:22
Speaker
hormone that seeks pleasure. And I dug a little bit deeper and I found a great website where that professor I mentioned in the intro, Anna Lemke, was guest speaking about dopamine and she was talking about how
00:11:38
Speaker
The dopamine is a really adaptive part of our biology. Like it was necessary for survival back in hunter-gatherer times, I guess. Because we had to feel good when we found something that was good for our survival.
00:11:54
Speaker
to motivate us to go and seek it again, right? Or when we were experiencing discomfort or something, we needed something to motivate us to go seek out what we knew was going to feel good like the next oasis.
00:12:10
Speaker
you know, or if we tasted something that was really good to eat, we had to be motivated to get up after we had it to go find it again for the next time that we were hungry. So I think the rub is just that today in 2023, we don't necessarily need all these motivations to survive. We're just surrounded by the ease and luxury. So the script has flipped, but the
00:12:36
Speaker
point of dopamine really was like survival, the complete other end of the scale. That's so fascinating that yeah, pleasure was linked to survival where now it's not, right? Like we don't need to feel pleasure to have like access to medicine and life saving things and all those things now. And it is different than oxytocin, which is that like bonding hormone, which mothers have with babies when they deliver their babies, which also was increased during marital relations.
00:13:01
Speaker
Um, that is a human bonding hormone, but this one's just pleasure, right? Like this is food with the first time they roasted meat,
Healthy Dopamine Boosts
00:13:08
Speaker
right? They were like, what is this? And then the first time they made bread and then they dipped the bread and the meat drippings, which is the best part of roasting meat.
00:13:19
Speaker
They're like, yeah, we definitely need to hate. They're like, Martha, do that again. So definitely important. But there's actually another part of our body. There's actually bodily parts that are impacted by dopamine production as well. And Harvard explains that it's learning and attention, our mood, movement, heart rate, kidney function, blood vessel function, sleep, pain processing, and lactation, which again is also oxytocin.
00:13:46
Speaker
And that same author explained that too little dopamine causes the stiff movements that are the hallmark of Parkinson's disease and discusses dopamine and depression stating that while depression is often linked to serotonin, dopamine deficiency also leaves us feeling down. So yeah, there's the pleasure like we're joking about with food and all those things, right? But then yeah, also these other like bodily biological functions within us also really rely on dopamine.
00:14:13
Speaker
Okay, so the interesting thing about dopamine, right, is that you can get it from good sources. There could be good things. Again, we'll think like a batch of cookies made with your kids, or the bad sources we'll get to again in a minute. But let's look at some good and healthy ways to increase dopamine in our body.
00:14:29
Speaker
There was an article in Time magazine, and it was about healthy ways to increase dopamine. But before they explained this, quote, because our brains are wired to restore balance, peak levels of dopamine can be followed by painful crashes marked by cravings for more thrills. Indulging repeatedly may lead to tolerance, addiction and ultimately anxiety and depression.
00:14:51
Speaker
But we can break this downward spiral by getting healthier dopamine highs. And here's how to do it. So the first thing they suggest is good pain. And we might be like, what? But when you think about it for two seconds, it totally makes sense. Pleasure and pain go together. So if you think about like maybe having had a professional massage, sure, you can have like a therapeutic, gentle one at a spa. But if you've ever been to like a really good trained RMT who's meant to do it like medically, you often leave feeling pretty beaten up.
00:15:19
Speaker
for a couple of days until your body responds, right? That doesn't feel very good right away. Or the other example they used is cold showers and everybody doing cold plunging right now. I was just at that Swedish spa, right? That does like hot pool, steam and cold plunging. And let me just say, I went like up to my ankles in the cold plunges and I was like, nope, I'm out of here. I ran so quickly out of those pools.
00:15:42
Speaker
So I actually have a high pain tolerance, but yeah, I guess the cold water is not a good pain to me. Right. Right. Yeah. Did you come across the science of this phenomenon of seeking out using the discomfort? Yeah. So when you use that discomfort and pain in order to regulate that balance of pain and pleasure,
00:16:09
Speaker
It's called hormesis, and that's the process from a website called sciencedirect.com, where a harmful substance gives stimulating and beneficial effects to living organisms, which we are.
00:16:26
Speaker
Um, when the quantity of the harmful substance is small, right? So like the little dosages, like what you're talking about. So self-imposed discomfort is going to benefit you in the end. I was also thinking like exercise. Yep. Oh, that's a big general, right?
00:16:43
Speaker
Yeah, and this goes along with something else that I found written in a blog post by a certified sports nutritionist named Andrew Murley that in general you want to subject your body to short bursts of mild stress and that this is going to help you live better and live longer.
00:17:00
Speaker
And I think that makes total sense in the context of trying to help your body regulate and return to that balance in such a pleasure seeking culture that we find ourselves in today. Oh yeah, that totally makes sense with the trendy workouts of being like HIIT workouts, right? High intensity interval training or sprinting. Sprinting is really, and you just sprint for like only a couple seconds, but as hard as you actually absolutely can. It's showing to be really healthier than some other modes of exercise.
00:17:30
Speaker
That being said, that science seems to change all the time, but those exercises and sprinting are definitely popular right now. So yeah, I have exercise here. Apparently, it helps protect dopamine receptors, which start decreasing 10% every decade of our lives. The exercise actually protects those receptors.
00:17:51
Speaker
There was a hilarious, I laughed about this because it was kind of combining the pain of exercise and the pain of cold showers. And this one doctor said, well, it's a neuroscientist, so I guess we can trust him, said that this is kind of best represented in camping.
00:18:06
Speaker
And I was like, ew, camping. And you're like, yay, camping. And it said not glamping because with camping, you might have a cold shower. There is the uncomfortable sleep, the hiking, not eating on your regular schedule. And he said, though hard when it's happening, sometimes almost everyone comes back from camping feeling really refreshed, feeling really good.
00:18:29
Speaker
Yeah. And then they go out and do it again. Yeah. Which is crazy to me. I mean, I'm one of the few that did it once and went never again, but that's fine. Right. Well, I do have to say that I think you could probably classify me more in terms of glamping because it's in an RV, right? Yes. However, I grew up like tent camping and I still love tent camping. So I'm kind of like a balance. I understand both. But
00:18:58
Speaker
In terms of that some stimulus don't appeal to you, in that podcast episode I was just referencing, the interviewer actually asked that question of why do some activities work to increase some people's dopamine levels, but they don't go as high for other people's?
00:19:17
Speaker
And they were kind of talking around this whole concept, but the thing that I remember and stuck in my mind was it went back to that adaptive quality that we have in our genetic makeups, that back when it all depended on our survival, perhaps you needed people to get their dopamine highs from different aspects of survival for the community. Like you couldn't have everybody going to look for water, but nobody inclined to go hunting.
00:19:48
Speaker
And you needed somebody sweeping out the cave, which was me going, oh my gosh, I love making this cave area so clean. Well, the hunters needed a comfortable place to come back to, to fluff up the stone pillows. But I think that's interesting because that has carried over into today because you're right, I have not been able to hack high intensity workouts.
00:20:14
Speaker
for myself. That doesn't actually give me a super big high as much as something like camping. So I think it's all just dependent on personality and genetics too, to a certain extent. I read one more really cool thing about exercise and there is a program called Run For Your Life and it's run through something called Odyssey House and it is helping people in a recovery from addiction
00:20:38
Speaker
especially like meth and really hard drugs. It helps them recover from their addiction by training by doing like high intensity exercise and training for marathons and they're finding great success in replacing that dopamine hit from drugs with exercise.
00:20:55
Speaker
That is so interesting. I mean, the more and more I think that you look into brain science, and we're not even in this field, I can only imagine how the actual doctors and researchers feel, the more exciting it must be to be able to understand the human brain and how it works in order to help people. Like, this is not just knowledge for knowledge's sake. I don't know if we can say it correctly. This is knowledge that has the potential to do a lot of very good things in the world.
00:21:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's like our bodies were designed to take care of all these incredible things. Speaking of that, it turns out prayer is also a great dopamine enhancer and also meditation. Both of those are on that list as well. And then just finally, there are some good foods for dopamine production. And surprise, surprise, we were joking about this. It's like just eat healthy because
00:21:49
Speaker
This is what the list is. Fish, poultry, dairy products, strawberries, green leafy vegetables, green tea, eggs, nuts, and coffee, which I wrote tricky because caffeine was also all over the things that become compulsive needs for people with dopamine addictions. But yeah, coffee, I guess, when treated in moderation, they can go back to our episode on lagom, you know, can be a good thing.
00:22:13
Speaker
And so they were also just mentioning that you can combine pleasures. So think about running while listening to your favorite music. In fact, just all exercise with your favorite music. They said very few people will actually consistently exercise if they're not listening to music. Like it's a really important part of that.
00:22:30
Speaker
Yes. Oh, that's interesting that you can like dopamine stack. Yes, but I do have my notes, but it gets tricky because your brain can easily become overwhelmed. So they were saying maybe not texting and listening to your favorite song at the same time, because that's two like types of language in your brain.
00:22:46
Speaker
So you shouldn't combine certain pleasures, or they give the example of people playing video games and drinking caffeinated energy drinks. So both of those are massive dopamine things, but both of those together? Uh-uh, no. Right. Right. The crash from that would be double the amount of a normal
00:23:05
Speaker
Coming down off your dopamine high I get that but in terms of the running with the podcast or music so or something I can see that though because the dopamine hit you get from exercise is Delayed. Yeah, right. So during the the pain part of the process You're almost like giving it a boost you're like giving it a dopamine help
00:23:28
Speaker
to get through the hormesis, this unpleasurable thing that you're trying to do to try to get a sustained higher level of dopamine. So yeah, in certain cases then, I guess we can say it works to stack your dopamine.
00:23:45
Speaker
Yeah. And just finishing off with the hormesis tactic of trying to up your dopamine levels. There are other things that we don't even think about that may be difficult or challenging, but that do increase our dopamine levels. Like anything that requires sustained focus. Think about like learning a new skill or learning a new language was a big one.
00:24:10
Speaker
Being creative and creating something, reading something that's challenging or difficult for you. Any time you're trying to discipline yourself and trying to not allow ourselves to get distracted,
00:24:25
Speaker
while we do that sustained focus is really really good for hormesis because that's allowing ourselves to kind of be bored or Forcing ourselves to do boring things that's painful. That's unpleasant But that can then boost in the opposite direction the dopamine high afterwards when that task is finally complete
Bad Dopamine Sources & Digital Detox
00:24:47
Speaker
Oh, I love that. So like a challenge and then the sense, like the sense of reward you feel after you've successfully, you know, challenged yourself to something. Oh, that's great. And then so for the bad sources of dopamine, I think these are pretty obvious, but just think the seven deadly sins. Think of vices. So like pornography, gambling, dangerous sports, excessive alcohol, illegal drugs, and yes, junk food is on that list as well. Yes.
00:25:14
Speaker
Okay, so back to Harvard, and now I'm rethinking this entire episode because the first article I found is titled Dopamine Fasting. Misunderstanding science spawns a maladaptive fad. I'm like, if you could see my face right now, you know, I'm doing that emoji with the awkward face with the teeth showing. We start fading in the music at the end of the episode. We're like, goodbye. Yeah.
00:25:39
Speaker
Because the whole thing that really sparked this is this trend I'm seeing ironically on social media about fasting from digital things as like a dopamine detox and so fasting from your phone and everything, right? So then I'm like, okay, dopamine fasting sounds great. Turns out not really a thing. Because you can't fast from a naturally occurring brain chemical what you're actually fasting from, right?
00:26:05
Speaker
neuroscience. What you're actually fasting from is unhealthy stimuli that gives us those short bursts of pleasure and they program the brain to want more turning these things into compulsive behaviors. This is what I really started to learn like this idea of a fast or detoxing is really meant to do is to fast or detox from those stimuli and compulsive behaviors, not the dopamine itself.
00:26:32
Speaker
Okay, yeah, that makes sense. So really, we're trying to fast from like sustained high levels, unnaturally sustained high levels of dopamine.
00:26:43
Speaker
Yes, due to bad habits. Yes, the things that cause that takes us there. So that's a mouthful. I can see how social media wanted to shorten that down. Yes. OK, so we've cleared this up, but we still really like the work of Dr. Cameron Sepeh. He created this concept of the dopamine fast. So what does Dr. Cameron Sepeh have to say? He first published an article outlining his dopamine fast in 2019, and it became a worldwide hit
00:27:12
Speaker
It was especially popular in Silicon Valley, which I think is not really surprising. His technique for this is rooted in cognitive behavioral therapy, which is meant to treat addictive behavior. Now, his dopamine fast is primarily connected with a fast from digital devices, but he created it to deal with people who are addicted to dopamine rushes from emotional eating, internet,
00:27:36
Speaker
gaming, gambling slash shopping, which I thought was really interesting that they put gambling and shopping in the same thing. Thrill and novelty seeking and recreational drugs, including caffeine and alcohol. So yeah, it's about, I guess, your basic cognitive behavioral therapy meant to help you break those addictions.
00:27:58
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Oh, that's really interesting. It's interesting that all of those things are like piggybacking off of the digital detox. Yes, yes. But those things existed long before the digital worlds really took off like that, right? It's just an interesting setup for all of this and how it came about. But it does make a lot of sense. Remember like Steve Jobs, I think, was really
00:28:28
Speaker
Wasn't it him who was really like cautious with his children? Being online and stuff? Yeah, I don't think he let them use devices. Yes. Yeah. So I mean, it's like the makeup. It's the nature of the beast, but it's...
00:28:44
Speaker
It's more and more known, especially by those who are creating it. Yeah. Yeah, which makes sense, right? That Silicon Valley would really pick up on this idea of detoxing from the... I think the thing that we all realize is we can look at that whole list and yeah, you might like not everyone's addicted to gambling, right? Maybe not like I could... I've never played a video game really in my life. That doesn't bother me. I don't do thrill or novelty seeking.
00:29:10
Speaker
But what we all do have is a phone in our hands and Time magazine said that our phones make digital dopamine available to us 24 seven. Oh my gosh, you're right. This goes along with something. I'm going to go back to that podcast I referenced a lot in the first section. And before I do, I don't think I actually said what the name of the podcast was. So let me just do that now. It's an episode on the podcast called Modern Wisdom.
00:29:40
Speaker
The host is Chris Williamson and it was his episode with Anna Lemke, who's a psychiatry professor at Stanford. And she has said, she was like, social media has essentially, it's drugified.
00:29:55
Speaker
human connection for us, right? And it has all of the qualities that are necessary to make something addictive to us. It has access, quantity, potency, and novelty. So the access, which you're talking about, we all have a phone in our pocket. The quantity, it used to be that you had to, for any of those other things, you had to actually do the work to go out and get them.
00:30:22
Speaker
or do the activity, right? But TikTok never runs out. Potency, and she was talking about how when you want to make something more potent, you combine two substances together. And that's what social media does by combining beautiful images with gaming or with music or with gambling. Or with human connection, right? Every time you get a like or a comment.
00:30:51
Speaker
Yep. And the novelty and that social media is so sensitive to anything that's new and these algorithms, they get to know you and they'll get to know what you do like and just show newer things, but that are still kind of similar. So it's always like piggybacking.
00:31:10
Speaker
Yes, I'm just funny that you're saying this because just this morning when I was scrolling my Instagram for you page I noted that there were more things I liked on there than I've ever seen before like I was saving it was like beautiful artwork Particularly so I'd liked a few pieces of art and then I was seeing so much more of it and obviously beautiful Christmas trees But I was just I actually made a mental note going huh my algorithms really nailed it right now
00:31:39
Speaker
now. Like I've never clicked on so many posts before and I'm like, interesting. Yes. Yeah. It's so interesting. So that aspect of it too, and you talk also about like parasocial relationships that you can develop online, that human connection or this podcast was even saying that like,
00:32:00
Speaker
The connections on social media, specifically when people like us, it releases dopamine. When people agree with us, we get a hit of dopamine. When people enhance our reputation, we get a hit of dopamine. When we're experiencing the same emotion at the same time as other people,
00:32:19
Speaker
That increases dopamine. All of this is sounding so familiar. And the biggest one though, I was shocked. It said when we're watching someone else watching something and we both have the same reaction,
00:32:36
Speaker
that releases a huge hit of dopamine, which totally explains reaction videos and how we love it. So all of this, all of this to say that like between the algorithm and the drugified human connection and all the qualities that make something addictive that are inherent to social media,
00:32:58
Speaker
It's no wonder that right now, like in our society, it really is kind of the substance that most of us go to and struggle with. Yes, yes. And so they were talking about a digital detox. And in this, again, this article with Time Magazine, and it's really great because this article actually interviews the same doctor that you're referencing a lot, Dr. Anna Lemke. She really is like a pioneer in this field.
00:33:23
Speaker
And she was saying to that, like, if you're going to do a digital detox from your phone, not everyone needs to put their phone away for 30 days and all screens. 30 days might be too much. She said that a lot of people can have success in resetting their reward pathways with just one week of detoxing from these things.
00:33:40
Speaker
Oh, that's interesting. That's good because a lot of plans, like if you, you know, if people are trying to promote like a certain plan for detoxing, often it is a long period of a set amount of days. Yeah. Right? Like 21 days or even 30 days, or like even for us, like going back to right at the beginning of the episode where we were talking about like these times in the church,
00:34:04
Speaker
calendar, those are often times that those of us who follow a liturgical calendar will start to detox or fast from something like social media, but those are like 40 days long. But we get our little breaks on Sundays, right? So it does, it is kind of broken down into like weeks at a time. Yes. And I'm just, I'm so fascinated that our bodies are so flexible and adaptive.
00:34:30
Speaker
that even a shorter amount of time brings about the biological change anyways, and the biological shift or break that we might need to reset things a little bit. Which always reminds me of how much our bodies and our brains are longing to be treated well, to be healthy. I always think whenever I start running again, and I am not a tiny girl right now, but I could run
00:34:55
Speaker
probably within a week of jogging I could be probably up to 5k again because I could run it five years ago and whenever I've gotten back into running my body despite maybe how it looks right now remembers what it's doing and that blows my mind every time I'm like you know what you're doing and it immediately so wants to be healthy that it catches up very quickly just like our brains and so I just feel like that's so encouraging that maybe if we haven't tried to make a change in a long time and our
00:35:23
Speaker
any of these things that we're leaning on as crutches or that have maybe become compulsions for us that even like a few little baby steps forward, you will feel better. You really will. There's a noticeable difference pretty quickly.
00:35:37
Speaker
And it's so part of us, deep inside of us, to want to be well. And not just feel well, but be well. And maybe this is actually an underlying drive towards this digital detox, the dopamine detox, because
00:35:54
Speaker
Even though dopamine makes us feel good, feeling good isn't actually deep down what we're all looking and longing for. Like what you were saying, it's to be well. And so that is such a huge perspective shift. If we have felt the nudge to kind of take back a little bit of control over the amount that we're consuming, that may be where it's coming from.
00:36:21
Speaker
And I think it's really interesting that you're talking about that it makes us feel good because the first step in actually doing like a digital or dopamine detox according to the man who created it, Dr.
Awareness & Compulsive Habits
00:36:31
Speaker
Kasipa, is he suggests actually paying attention to how you're really feeling when you're doing something.
00:36:38
Speaker
So on the surface level, we think it feels good to be browsing Instagram. We'll just use what I struggle with, but everybody can think about their own thing. But if you actually stop and think, how do I really feel? I actually feel really guilty that I'm not getting my chores done or that I'm not interacting with my kids.
00:36:55
Speaker
My back is hurting because I'm laying on an uncomfortable position on my bed, right? Like my eyes are starting to hurt a little bit It's just like all these things if you actually were to stop and go how is this actually making me feel and he said to do this in any of these things that were like if you're doing a lot of online shopping or any of these things and
00:37:13
Speaker
It really helps you to understand the truth of what you're feeling. I also remember reading this when I was looking into work by Melissa Urban, who created the Whole30. And a lot of even with eating and food is just really... So let's say you're craving that donut. There's a bakery in town and you just have been wanting this one donut forever. Finally, you can't resist it anymore. You go and get it. She always talks about taking that first bite.
00:37:38
Speaker
And not just thinking, oh, I love it. It's everything I wanted. Actually tasting it, like going, oh, oh, I kind of can taste like a chemical. Oh, I can kind of taste this in it. It's not actually as good as I thought it was. Paying really close attention to those things is really, really important. And so this idea of awareness, it's key to helping you break bad habits.
00:38:01
Speaker
You must pay attention to stimuli and how it's really making you feel. And you have to ask yourself the hard questions. Is this something I'm having trouble controlling? Is this becoming a compulsion? Again, think about reaching for your phone without even noticing that you're doing it. You know, you have to step back and go, am I enjoying it? How am I making, how is it really making me feel? And am I having trouble controlling this?
00:38:24
Speaker
Well, that is so interesting. I'm having a few different thoughts here. This awareness of what you're actually feeling, being the deeper source of discomfort or challenge or issue in your life. It reminds me of an account on Instagram called With Coach Grace. Now she talks about procrastination.
00:38:50
Speaker
which is a different topic, but also one that I feel like we should do an episode on because that also is getting more and more interesting with the science and everything. But she talks often about how like when you find yourself procrastinating, often it means you're feeling something else.
00:39:08
Speaker
and you're trying to avoid it. So in terms of procrastination, it could be more like fear, like you're afraid of what's going to happen if you try this thing that you're putting off or things in that regard. But that really reminded me of what you're saying there about Dr. Cameron, right?
00:39:29
Speaker
And he was, he's just saying, notice how you actually feel in the moment. And so much of maybe some of the unhealthy things and habits that we do are rooted in wanting to avoid our own emotions and suppress and not wanting to deal with them, right? Yes, there's that. And then I think there's the flip side too, that maybe what we're consuming, whether it's bad stuff on the internet,
00:39:51
Speaker
or maybe it's just your Instagram feed is what we're really longing for. So there's like the turning away from things that we don't want to deal with. But then I think like, so I'll look at all those pictures of beautiful cabins. Well, I'm wasting my time looking at the cabins when I could actually just try to do something in my life a little bit more productive to actually go to one of those cabins. Like we're looking for like, great, we're looking for
00:40:14
Speaker
that human connection for all those things. And we're using our screens to kind of satisfy those desires and those longings, which it will never fully do. It will never fully do. And then because it sets this artificial bar, right? Like we just went to a beautiful cottage a couple of weeks ago. It didn't look like all the ones I follow on Instagram. But it was great. But when you have that, this artificial bar so high of everything you're looking for there,
00:40:38
Speaker
And this is again talking about like pleasure seeking and dopamine rising to these heights. We can't then fully appreciate when we do get something good. It really does distort our idea of pleasure and reality.
00:40:52
Speaker
Oh my gosh, this is so good. I'm having revelations right now in our conversation because all of this reminds me of something else I just saw right before we started recording. It was on the Facebook group for the community of the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal.
00:41:11
Speaker
And the post was just, it was listing fully alive, fully united to God, fully in reality, fully in the present moment. This is the goal, friends. And they're plugging their latest episode, their latest episode, the Poco a Poco podcast, which you should check out.
00:41:33
Speaker
But it follows it up with a caption in one of their pictures here where it says, God is found in the present moment. He's found in reality. The fully alive person does not get caught in fantasy and does not experience life as an observer, but is united with God in the sacrament of the present moment.
Advent & Digital Detox
00:41:52
Speaker
And I was like,
00:41:53
Speaker
That is the deeper longing that we're kind of covering up. We want to be fully alive and the too high, too sustained, too artificially sustained dopamine levels we're getting from these superficial bad habits.
00:42:10
Speaker
is preventing us from being fully alive like that, fully present. We're getting caught up in the fantasies and we are just observers. Wow. Now, if only, if only there was something coming up that could help us that was a great motivation to detach from all these things and to fully connect with God and to fully connect with our families and to fully prepare our hearts. Could it be Advent? Oh my goodness. It's like
00:42:39
Speaker
like we planned it all so like I can't help believe that if there was ever a perfect time to do a fast from anything that is like an unhealthy dopamine stimuli for you it's advent because I think when
00:42:56
Speaker
We've stopped dulling our senses. We can better take in and appreciate the sensory overload that inevitably is Christmas. So I think that this is the perfect time to really get those things under control so that we can properly order our emotional responses to the pleasures and to the joys and to everything that's going to happen at Christmas. We have this amazing opportunity
00:43:18
Speaker
Well, this year's weird. You got four Sundays, but only three full weeks. This threw me for a loop, guys, for like a whole day. But we're approaching this period, right? Where you've got this time to really go, okay, what again do I want to detach from? And we talk about this all the time with detachment.
00:43:37
Speaker
When we detach from something, we aren't just sitting there floating in a void. You detach so you can reattach. So what of these things do I need to really reevaluate in my life just for this period? And then what do I reattach to?
00:43:53
Speaker
Yeah, that's such a good point because even from the physiological perspective that we've been talking about this whole time, you know, how we were kind of alluding to the beginning, like the more dopamine you get, the more pleasure you get from something and then you kind of dip back down. Yeah. What goes up must come down.
00:44:14
Speaker
But what happens is that you need something more and more to not only get up to that same level of high, but even that starts to become more normal, right? So you just need to keep increasing, increasing, increasing. By the time we get to Christmas, you're right. Like, especially if we mentioned last week in our episode that on social media anyways, like Christmas was basically here on November 1st this year.
00:44:42
Speaker
which is the earliest I've ever seen it, really, to that extent. But if we spend two full months before Christmas, doing Christmas, I don't know if there's any higher we could go by the time we hit December 25th. And so we're kind of, you're right, done with Christmas at that point. But if we do try to kind of detox ourselves now, then by the time we really do start ramping up the anticipation at the appropriate time leading up to Christmas,
00:45:11
Speaker
then that will be a much more natural and probably more pleasant high, I guess, if you want to call it the Christmas high. I couldn't agree more despite, despite being a person who did put her tree up and shared Christmas cookies yesterday because I'm doing trial runs for my Christmas baking.
00:45:29
Speaker
But I'm saying this because I know where to restrain myself and I know where I can give in a little bit because I fully understand and agree that we will be Christmased out and that Advent really is its own thing. And so Advent needs to be taken seriously by people who want to do liturgical living.
00:45:49
Speaker
And we always want to invite our non-Catholic listeners to participate in Advent and whatever you want to that. I think it's something that is really missing in this culture, this calm before the Christmas storm, shall we say, this opportunity to reflect, to sit and quiet.
00:46:07
Speaker
To fast before the feasting. This is you know fasting was a very traditional part of Advent. It was a very strict fast To really just prepare our hearts and our minds and our bodies and our homes For what we're going to receive at Christmas now. We are receiving the birth of our Savior Right, but we're also receiving family and friends and all of the excitement that comes with that
00:46:31
Speaker
So why not enter into this period beforehand where you kind of lay everything else down, right? I really love the darkness of late November into early December as well. It's the darkest time of the year as we approach December 21st, right? And I just love that. I know it impacts a lot of people differently. I really love just the way that the environment around us plays into this, wanting to cocoon, to sit by candlelight and to just have a really quiet couple of weeks leading up till Christmas.
00:47:02
Speaker
It's all by design. Like when you take a step back and look at it all, the darkest time of the year coinciding with the appropriate period of kind of fasting a little bit before a great feast, the liturgical year of the church calling us into that moment of anticipation before Christmas.
00:47:23
Speaker
It really is all by design. And Advent is a season of waiting, right? And I was thinking about this too, how a digital detox, a dopamine detox could benefit us during Advent in particular. Because waiting is a lost art form too. But it might help us to wait well. And I kept going back to the story in the Bible about the bridesmaids waiting for the groom. That half of them were wise and they conserved the oil from when the groom would come. And then half of them
00:47:52
Speaker
were foolish and they wasted their oil when they didn't need to. And so the half that conserved and they waited, that was probably an uncomfortable situation for them. They didn't have light because they couldn't light their lamps. Maybe holding the lamps also provided heat. Maybe it was cold. Maybe they had to endure being teased.
00:48:12
Speaker
by the others because it wasn't seen as something you had to do, like we could just light our lamps now, it's going to be fine. So it was a decision of discomfort, but discomfort because it was a good thing to do, it was the proper thing to do so that they could be prepared for what was coming. And so I was just thinking, you know, while we wait
00:48:34
Speaker
during Advent. And like you said, for us, we're waiting for the coming of Jesus at Christmas. And we're called to wait for the Lord to be strong and to take heart and to be ready. And perhaps this rebalancing of our neurotransmitters is a less poetic, but not less important means to help us be better
00:48:58
Speaker
So we'll finish up with just again going back to this idea of pain and pleasure. And I don't think we really understand pleasure anymore. And I think that's because we've lost our ability to withstand some pain. And Dr. Analemke wrote in Time, we're living in a pain-phobic culture. When individuals accept that some pain in life is inevitable, they will often enjoy more well-being and deeper satisfaction.
00:49:23
Speaker
Hmm, a deeper satisfaction. That sounds great. I think we are all longing for this. And all of these things that we find ourselves turning towards too much, our phones, shopping, eating junk food, these things undeniably provide pleasure and can be a great outlet when used in moderation. But we have seen in this episode that they can never be a replacement for the things our hearts and our brains are really longing for.
Finding Deeper Satisfaction
00:49:48
Speaker
And now is the perfect time as we edge ever towards Christmas and all of its merry making to detach from things that only bring a moderate sense of satisfaction so that we can fully attach to the things that will bring us that deep satisfaction that we are all longing for.
Personal Recommendations & Closing
00:50:15
Speaker
Okay it's time for our what we're loving this week segment of the show. So Lindsay what have you been loving this week? Okay I really had to think about this because I haven't consumed any like new media like nothing I haven't shared before. I'm still reading Don Quixote, I'm still watching Bond films and
00:50:32
Speaker
my favorite YouTuber, Glenn, and friends cooking. I'm still listening to all the same podcasts. And then I was like, but there is something I've been using during my Advent Deep Clean that I do love, and it was my early Christmas gift to myself, and it's an item. It is the Hoover Power Dash Pet Compact Carpet Cleaner Shampoo machine. Yes, that is the full title. I'll do it again. Hoover Power Dash Pet Compact Carpet Cleaner Shampoo machine.
00:50:58
Speaker
Okay. So it's like a, it's like a vacuum, right? But carpet shampooer and for years people tried to talk me away from like buying one. Cause they're like, Oh, I had one. They're so heavy. They leak everywhere. They break like the three, $400. Um, but, and then we'd rented the big like industrial ones you can rent.
00:51:15
Speaker
And that was one of the most wonderful 48 hours of my life using that. I loved it so much. So for years, I'm like, I want my own. I want my own. This one was cheap. It's like actually affordable. Michelle, it's lightweight. It's as easy to use as your vacuum. And it is like totally made our house look so clean. So that is actually what I'm loving this week is my carpet cleaner.
00:51:37
Speaker
Oh my gosh, I love that you love it. And because I still have to wash my carpets. Yes. Yes. And you can borrow it. Yes. Yay. That's awesome. I can take it for a trial run. But I am curious, since getting it, how often have you washed your carpets? I'm just curious if owning one leads to even more carpet washing than ever before.
00:52:01
Speaker
Yeah, it does because it's actually as easy as vacuuming. The tank is a bit smaller and that's one of the things with getting a more affordable machine that's lightweight is you're not getting a really heavy one. So that's the only main complaint is you have to empty it and fill it a couple of times to do a room, but that's not even a serious problem.
00:52:20
Speaker
Um, the rest of it, it's so darn easy to use. I've used it multiple times on our carpets. Um, and you really could, if you were crazy like me, work it into like almost a weekly cleaning. Now I say that because my carpets have rarely been washed in 12 years, right? So they might not always need to be done as regularly as I'm doing it right now. Cause it's like taking up years and years of ground and dirt, but yeah, it's so easy. You really could just make like do it monthly.
00:52:45
Speaker
Okay. Yeah, well, I'm, I'm definitely it's on my mind. And I might be in the market. So I'm gonna check that out too. Now I hope you have something a little bit more romantic, shall we say that you've been loving this week? I actually do. I totally classify this as romantic. So
00:53:04
Speaker
Like you, I'm trying to actually work through your what you're loving this week list. Next week you're like the Hoover power dash. So I still have a ways to go. I kind of dug back into a couple of the books that I was reading in the summer because
00:53:26
Speaker
I had a great stretch of reading. You know those seasons where reading just comes really easily go from book to book to book and that's kind of where I was at. And one of them was just such an easy to read classic that I thought I want to recommend it just in case I know we're kind of entering into the season after Christmas.
00:53:47
Speaker
when people start setting new goals for themselves and reading challenges come out and things like that, so people can consider this one. And the book that I recommend is called The Scarlet Pimpernel, and it was written by Baroness Ortsy. So The Scarlet Pimpernel takes place during the French Revolution, more specifically during the Reign of Terror, where the wealthy aristocratic class in France were being routinely rounded up by the revolutionaries and executed.
00:54:15
Speaker
The story itself follows a mysterious hero going by the nom de guerre, the Scarlet Pimpernel, who successfully rescues many of these French aristocrats and their families from the guillotine.
00:54:30
Speaker
And the leaders of the revolution are desperate to catch him. They want to reveal his identity and put an end to all of his thwarting of their vigilantism. But he always escapes and eludes them every time due to his cleverness and brilliance in the art of disguise.
00:54:50
Speaker
So the plot really goes back and forth between England and France and the aristocratic classes in each country, as well as, you know, exploring the consequences and opinions at that time of the reign of terror in both countries. And it also just delivers a fantastic story of intrigue, love, loyalties, and suspense.
00:55:13
Speaker
I also learned that it was actually originally written as a play and it makes sense that there are many film and TV adaptations you could enjoy as well. And then you, Lindsay, as I was telling you about this last night, you did a quick Google search and found that there are other books that also contain the title of Scarlet Pimpernel that I didn't know about. And so I looked further into it afterwards and it turns out that there's an entire series.
00:55:43
Speaker
multiple books, several books about the Scarlet Pimpernel and his League of Men who assist him and their lives and adventures over the years during this time of history which I now of course need to check out too. So if you're looking for your next read and it's a busy season so you need something that kind of grips you right from the get-go and is easy to read then I highly recommend the Scarlet Pimpernel written by Baroness Ortsy.
00:56:12
Speaker
Which I just want to say, I love that a woman wrote it. I just, I, having worked my way through so many classics, right? Only a small handful were written by women. So I'm always like, yay. Yes. Yeah. And it was saying that she co-wrote the script for the stage performance first with her husband. But then that was so wildly successful that she went on to adapt it into a novel series, I guess.
00:56:41
Speaker
Okay, that's going to do it for us this week. If you want to get in touch and chat with us about our topic today, you can find us on our website, www.themodernlady1950.wordpress.com, or leave us a comment on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube at The Modern Lady Podcast.
00:57:00
Speaker
I'm Michelle Sacks and you can find me on Instagram at mmsacks. And I'm Lindsay Murray and you can find me on Instagram at Lindsay Homemaker. Thank you so much for listening. Have a great week and we will see you next time.