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The Modern Lady Throwback: Shouldering Emotional Labour at Home
438 Plays11 months ago
This week, we are excited to re-release one of our episodes from Season 1 of The Modern Lady Podcast! From the vault: "Life is often made up of all those little moments that come together in big ways. Women throughout history know exactly what those little things are and tend to carry the brunt of the responsibility for taking care of them for their households. In this week’s episode, we respond to an online post discussing emotional labour in marriage and discuss what it is, exactly, and how to put it all into proper perspective." (Originally aired: July 2, 2019)
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Transcript
Introduction to Emotional Labor
00:00:00
Speaker
But just making sure that you always let them know that you are behind them. And so this is going on. But I wanted the trust part, but you do what you want. Okay. You just end that where you need to. And it's done. That's perfect. I love when I do the same thing with my points. Just spiraling out of control.
00:00:37
Speaker
Welcome back to the Modern Lady podcast. You're listening to episode 37. Hi, I'm Michelle. And I'm Lindsay. And today we are diving deep into the concept of emotional labour and chatting about if nagging really works. What is emotional labour, you ask?
00:00:54
Speaker
Well, in a guide to emotional labor for men in Mel Magazine, it is, quote, the free, invisible work women do to keep track of the little things in life that taken together amount to the big things in life, the glue that holds households and, by extension, proper society together, end quote. Now, these little things don't seem like that big of a deal, right? But it turns out it is, and many of us are really feeling the weight of it all.
Audience Engagement and Wedding Toast Tips
00:01:23
Speaker
But first, Michelle and I love bringing the Modern Lady podcast to you every week. And if you are enjoying our efforts, the best way that you can show your support is by subscribing to our podcast and writing us a review. It also means so much to us if you share this episode with your friends.
00:01:38
Speaker
This week's shout out goes to Kathy Ramey-Garten, who sent us a message through our Facebook group and said, quote, Oh, you ladies, I just found you a few weeks ago when I ran out of Audible books. What a delight. Listened all day today as I was sewing, outbursts of approval filled my sewing room at your podcast about love.
00:02:00
Speaker
We just celebrated our 50th anniversary and it is so encouraging to know your generation has people who still embrace the values I have found to be unshakeable and the pathway to joy and contentment. I will recommend you to all who will listen." End quote. Well, first of all, congratulations, Kathy, on 50 years of marriage. That is amazing and so wonderful. And thank you so much for your comment and for your review.
00:02:27
Speaker
And if you would like to leave us a comment, you can do so on our website www.themodernlady1950.wordpress.com or you can leave us a comment on Facebook or Instagram where you can find us at the Modern Lady podcast. But before we get into today's chat, Lindsay has our Modern Lady Tip of the Week.
00:02:52
Speaker
It is the season for wedding toasts, and we have your complete guide to toasting here. So the first thing that you need to do, and this might seem obvious, is make sure that everyone has a drink before toasting. Please note though that not everybody has to be drinking alcohol. You don't have to rush around pouring wine for everybody in order to make the toast. Water, juice, and even soft drinks are fine too.
00:03:15
Speaker
Secondly, you need to get everyone's attention and the easiest way to do this is by standing with your glass raised in the air. Do not bang your glass with a knife. Traditionally, the first toast is made by the host and it is a welcome toast for all of the guests. The person being toasted, if indeed there is a toasty as they're called, does not stand and they do not drink to themselves, right? So they do not take a sip when everybody else does.
00:03:43
Speaker
Keep your toast short and to the point. There are many great humorous and memorable toasts available online. It would be great if you had one memorized as your signature toast and I have one for you. May you live as long as you want and never want for as long as you live.
00:04:00
Speaker
Oh, I love that toast. I was trying to memorize it as you were just saying it. We can post it on, maybe we'll post it in the show notes. Oh, good. Yeah, so if you missed it the first time, we will post it so you can memorize it. And it can be all of our signature toast. Yes. It'll be just the same toast everywhere you go. And it feels like, are you a modern lady? That's right. But yeah, as the person sitting at the table even, not necessarily being the one to give the toast,
00:04:29
Speaker
Often at weddings, for example, I know the toast is coming and I do not have a drink ready. And I'm always scrambling to find something, find something to toast. And I imagine it's probably in poor form to be pouring as your tablemates are already clinking their glasses.
00:04:48
Speaker
that's often the picture I'm painting so yeah good but I love that in this that if the onus is on the host or like the person about to make the toast right to make sure so that is the proper etiquette so before you get up to make it make sure everybody has some liquid in their glass
Deep Dive into Emotional Labor
00:05:08
Speaker
Like we said in the opening, remembering all the little things, all the tasks, all the dates, keeping track of the physical, emotional, mental wellbeing of not only yourself, but everyone in your household. This is no small order and often falls to the women in the households. And there is a term for it that I have actually never heard of until you and I spoke of this, Lindsay, of emotional labour.
00:05:34
Speaker
That's right. So I remember first seeing an article probably eight years ago at this point about emotional labor, and it hit me hard. And I actually, it impacted me so much that I still reference it pretty regularly. And so just again, I know you defined it in the opening, but I've just got one more quote for everybody that will help everybody understand what emotional labor is. And this comes from a book by Gemma Hartley, and the book is called Fed Up, Emotional Labor, Women and the Way Forward.
00:06:03
Speaker
Quote, emotional labor, as I define it, is emotion management and life management combined. It is the unpaid, invisible work we do to keep those around us comfortable and happy. It envelops many other terms associated with the type of care-based labor I described in my article, emotion work, the mental load, mental burden, domestic management, clerical labor, invisible labor, end quote.
00:06:26
Speaker
So that is a lot of things as we're talking about. But when I read that, the initial article eight years ago, you know what, Michelle, I was heavily pregnant with our third baby and we were about to put our house up for sale. And so it was a three-story townhouse. And so on top of taking care of our then three-year-old and five-year-old, I was doing all of the packing, all of the paperwork for the mortgage application. I was doing all of the cleaning to get the house ready for the market.
00:06:53
Speaker
And not only was the physical part of that awful, right? What really was awful was the anger that was simmering below the surface that I felt like I was doing all the work. And it was that kind of emotional labor. And so it was right at that time that I read the article and it just, like I said, it was like a kick to the gut.
00:07:16
Speaker
Yeah, because often, and like I was saying, we don't even know that this even exists as a thing, but often putting a name to something or just even acknowledging the existence of it, maybe it won't take it away and maybe it won't necessarily vindicate us or edify us, but it will at least give it some perspective, right? Absolutely, yeah.
00:07:40
Speaker
I think that if you Google it now, Emotional Labor, there are countless books and articles that have really come out in the last eight years or so. And I think it really took off because like you're saying, it put a name to something that I think mostly women have been feeling probably for a couple thousand years.
00:07:59
Speaker
Yes, this is it. This is what we're doing. And again, as you and I have said so many times on our podcast, this is a podcast by women and for women, we will address some of the male parts aspects of this. But this is not excusing men's behavior or making
00:08:16
Speaker
judgments on their capabilities. We're just talking about it from our side and what we're feeling as the women and our emotional labor. And so I think if most couples step back and think about it, this is what is at the root of most arguments and most frustration. And I think it boils down to, are you seeing what I am doing?
00:08:35
Speaker
Yeah. And like in that context, then carrying emotional labor is often really hurtful and painful, right? Because in that way, in a good way maybe, if you're looking at it in retrospect, is that it hurts our egos because often it is so unseen. And, you know, when you have, when you feel like you have so much to do, but no matter how much of this invisible work
00:09:00
Speaker
that you're talking about that I need to get done. I sometimes feel like I need to accomplish something else. Just one other thing that people can see and recognize. And when you stop to consider why, like why is that? Why do I need that? That can really put you in check too. Absolutely. I came across a social media post that
00:09:22
Speaker
goes hand in hand with what we're talking about. So there was this viral post and it's been shared 146,000 times. So when we were talking about how this has really hit home for a lot of people, it has clearly hit home for a lot of people. And so it was written by somebody. He used the name Elf Rec, Elf Rec. And he entitled his, yeah, right. He entitled his post. She divorced me because I left dishes by the sink.
00:09:47
Speaker
And I'm just going to read what his post actually said. So it says, I remember my wife often saying how exhausting it was for her to have to tell me what to do all the time. It's why the sexiest thing a man can say to his partner is, I've got this, and then take care of whatever needs to be taken care of. I always reasoned, if you just tell me what you want me to do, I'll gladly do it.
00:10:10
Speaker
but she didn't want to be my mother. She wanted to be my partner and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household. She wanted me to figure out all of the things that needed to be done and devise my own method of task management.
00:10:28
Speaker
Now, that was what he wrote, and obviously a lot of people, again, I bet mostly women, went, yes, yes, that's exactly what I'm feeling. And we're right and cheering that on, what he's saying. But a friend of mine, a male friend, kind of wrote his own comments about that, and I loved what he had to say from a man's point of view as well.
00:10:49
Speaker
And he went on to explain that it isn't that men don't know what to do. And he went on even further to say that if left to their own devices, men will actually get the job done, even the quote, dishes in the sink. But it will happen in their own way and in their own time.
00:11:04
Speaker
He then explained that most men are really even willing to do it the way that their wife prefers something to be done. But that men and women are fundamentally different and most husbands naturally approach these chores differently than their wives do. This is just natural. And so if we want it done our way, and again, he said, we're willing to do it your way, we just need your detailed instructions because our brains simply don't work the same way.
Gender Roles and Household Duties
00:11:30
Speaker
So when I think about all of that, I just realized, you know, men are as invested in their homes and families just as much as we are. And they want it to all work out. And they're even willing to do it our way, like he said. And so let's not pretend, Michelle, that we don't really have a way that we prefer to have things done because I think most of us do. Yes. But if we really do want it done our way, then we do need to explain it clearly. Right. They're not mind readers.
00:11:57
Speaker
Right. I love that because that is also one reason why that this is probably such a painful experience to go through is that we're led to believe that nobody else cares about something that we naturally care very deeply about and in a particular way. And so, yeah, I think it's really important what you said about men and women being different and processing and thinking differently.
00:12:27
Speaker
than one another because the lie out there is that you are the only one who cares and that can be so destructive to a marriage, so isolating for you as an individual and so demoralizing for everybody involved. You think you are being put down. Imagine how I know as a wife, if I feel like I'm letting down
00:12:53
Speaker
Phil, as his spouse, I'm also coming away from that deeply hurt and feeling like I have failed too. And I feel like that train of thought, that thinking that no one else cares as much as you do, once you've let that into your brain,
00:13:11
Speaker
it's really hard to shake and it just starts to build and build and build on it. I remember we were at a family and marriage conference years ago and actually like this viral post, the therapist there talking to the couple said marriages usually survive the big things, affairs, the death of a child, like the horrible things, bad illness.
00:13:32
Speaker
but they usually a lot of them get divorced because the man dropped his socks in the same place for 35 years and did not pick up his socks and the woman is like I'm done I'm out of here and I'm not you know saying that that's right or wrong I'm just saying that when we've started to build up that thought of why can't he pick up his socks instead of coming up with a new way to discuss that issue it just compounds and yeah you Explode after 30 years of picking up the socks and it is about the dishes in the sink or the socks on the floor
00:14:03
Speaker
Yeah, and you know what? I think everyone handles this experience differently too, right? It can look different depending on who you are and what your marriage relationship is like. So for example, I tend to bottle up my frustrations because I want to avoid conflict and probably to an unhealthy extent. I say probably, but really it isn't healthy to have it inside of you and explode the way that it does after a while.
00:14:31
Speaker
And that is also really unfair because I can go for a long time presenting this facade that I'm totally fine with everything. And then randomly, to Phil, out of nowhere, this tirade will come out. And I will expect an answer from him immediately, even though I have been processing this for weeks. And he's just hearing it for the first time now. And I'm like, why won't you say something? That's so unfair.
00:15:01
Speaker
And that's the complete opposite of you. I speak the entire way through whatever is going on. But let's be honest, it's not speaking, it's nagging. So I nag Jason the entire way through whatever it is we're working on. And I have actually come really far in this. You and I will talk about how we're trying to overcome our own personal issues.
00:15:20
Speaker
with it. So instead, I'm not a baudelaire and I let it out the whole way. And so nagging, I'm very condescending. And in some ways, if I'm totally honest, because I'm so type A and such of a control freak, I'm almost expecting him to fail or anybody else I'm actually working with so that I can swoop in and pick up all of the pieces. And if I really think about that, that
00:15:45
Speaker
honestly means that I think I kind of like carrying the emotional labor of it all because then I can play the martyr and be like, well, yep, I knew you weren't going to do that well. And so I might as well add this to my list too. Right. And walk away. And that is who I was as a wife in the first many years of our marriage. And it did not serve us well.
00:16:06
Speaker
Wow, that is so interesting. That's an interesting perspective. I didn't think of it that way before, that we might in some way enjoy having something to fall back on. Right, right. It's like I'm having a hard day, but it's because of this and this and this.
00:16:23
Speaker
So like you were saying, we have luckily, thankfully recognized that this is not healthy. And like in all things with marriage too, right? Like things just, you build every year on improving and getting better at things, getting better at communicating. So what are some of the ways that you have tried to kind of turn things around in terms of carrying emotional labor?
00:16:49
Speaker
Well, I really had to step outside of myself again, like we're talking, and look at all of Jason's strengths. And he has many. He's just like the man in that post where he said, ask me to do something and I'll do it. And not only does he do it, he does it with great joy and great patience.
00:17:08
Speaker
I wanted him to excel at whatever I needed him to do, but not do better than I could, right? Like we were saying. So do better, but not better than me. And so it's like the flip side of like wanting to see how great he is. And the more I saw how great he is, the worse I kind of felt about me.
00:17:26
Speaker
But that's, you and I've talked about this before, it's really important to be self-aware and to grow in humility. So the more I focused on everything, so I would go through a list in my head and think of all the things I was doing that day, right? And I would cycle myself up and I'd get angrier and angrier.
00:17:42
Speaker
And then I'm like, wait a second, Lindsay, you haven't had to worry about paying a bill in seven years. I haven't had to worry, you know, about where the, yeah, I have to cook dinner, but I don't have to worry about where the food is coming from. Like a lot of people in the world have to worry about that. Jason will pick it up on his way home that he pays for from his job, like all those things. Right. And so that's the first thing is putting it into perspective.
00:18:04
Speaker
But I've also ... You know what? Sorry, just something to add to that, because I have that consideration too. To remember that he, Jason, Phil, husbands, the other person in the marriage, they probably have their own set of invisible labor that we're not privy to, or have to worry about what you're saying. Like, I'm not at Phil's job, and because right now I'm at home, I can stay home, I have the freedom to work
00:18:33
Speaker
right now, however I need to make things happen. I set my rules here. I set the schedule. Usually how I want things done, that's how they get done. And in a different way, he also has to work hard but is limited by what he can say or what he can do within company policy. He has to factor in daily frustrations too. So if I'm tired of doing the dishes for the third time that day, maybe he's fed up with having to commute through brutal traffic.
00:19:01
Speaker
just to recognize that we're not unique or special in this case, even within our marriage, in carrying out particular responsibilities. Yeah, you're right. And we're talking about humility, and I, over the last couple years, have been praying to grow in humility. And I don't know if we've mentioned it here before. I think we have the litany of humility, and maybe we'll link to it.
00:19:26
Speaker
But, oh man, guys, if you doubt prayer, if you doubt that prayer can work, I challenge any of you to pray daily the litany of humility for 30 days and see what happens in your life because you will be knocked off your pedestal. I guarantee it because all of the saints who have excelled in this life and have reached heavenly perfection all did it through humility.
00:19:51
Speaker
There's just no way around it. And so one of the things that has really shaken me up over the years and helped me get over myself, essentially, is I have been knocked off my pedestal a few times. And I never really even deserved to be up on the pedestal that I put myself up on. But when I was knocked off it, and this has happened in different ways over the last decade of my life, I saw my own lowliness.
00:20:18
Speaker
And in that, my own humanity and the fact that I make mistakes too, and that the faults of others, I'm not trying to see them as failings, but as the part of the fabric of their personhood, of my personhood. And not all of these failings need to be fixed. I'm a fixer. I'm a doer.
00:20:37
Speaker
And so I do that within myself. I have very high expectations for myself as well. That's why I have them for everybody else. But some of those things are just part of our character and they're endearing. And some things are okay to leave as they are. Other things we need to get better at, right? But some things are okay that if they're not done well, it's okay.
00:20:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I like that. And to remind yourself that all of this is work in progress, right?
Marriage Effort and Communication
00:21:02
Speaker
And that we're fed this illusion, especially in marriage, that once you're married, it's all done. The work is done. You put on your wedding. Good job. Now you can relax and enjoy married bliss forever, right? But you're right. It's simply not the reality.
00:21:18
Speaker
because we're imperfect. Both of the people are imperfect. So even with the best of intentions, there will be a need for humility. There will be misunderstandings and shortcomings and obstacles on both sides. But yeah, when you are willing to accept that that's the normal way of things and to feel these things, it's not going to be quite as devastating when it comes up. You won't be knocked maybe quite so far with the pedestal. I hit that ground hard.
00:21:47
Speaker
I was knocked off a very high pedestal. You're right. If people go into, especially if you can start your marriage, like I don't want to say in a lower place, but you know what we're saying. Just so there's less space to fall. Yeah. I've learned to keep my mouth shut. So it's kind of like we were saying how you don't say anything and then kind of explode and how I talk the entire time. You and I were talking earlier about how
00:22:15
Speaker
It's about trying to strike that balance of it. These things are important to bring up They're important to say and it comes down to the tone in which we say them and the timing in which we say them and so
00:22:27
Speaker
I've needed to keep my mouth shut more. I don't need to weigh in on everything. As I'm saying this right now, I'm still telling myself this. I'm hoping I'm hearing what I'm saying. So I don't need to pursue an argument, especially when I know it's going to go nowhere. And I think we actually know that a lot of times when we start nitpicking or nagging, nagging never works.
00:22:51
Speaker
It doesn't and it just causes resentment. I feel like every once in a while we bring up Dr. Phil, but he talked years ago about being a right fighter and that's what I was. I was a right fighter and it didn't
00:23:06
Speaker
It didn't matter who I was kind of stepping over to be right. I just needed to be right, whether it was a worthwhile argument to pursue or not. And what he explains and what we often forget is that in order for us to be the winner of anything, right, if we're nagging our husbands to get a project done or that he hasn't done the dishes or any of those things, if we are pursuing that argument so that we may win, what we are also doing is making the man we love the most be a loser. Like literally, if we have to win, we're forcing him to feel like a loser.
00:23:36
Speaker
and that isn't what I want to do to the man I love and that treats me with so much respect and some of this has honestly come with just time and I want to encourage some of our newlywed listeners that you really get to this wonderful grace of knowing when to engage in battles and just when not to and you really see what works and what doesn't work and so just hang in there. Some of it is just time
00:24:01
Speaker
Right. And I was just thinking, this is one of the ways that I have tried to improve on this too, from my end, is just to be honest. You know, if I think back to the beginnings of my frustrations, I'm actually usually not angry at Phil or anyone else. It actually doesn't start out as anger. And if I can recognize that and be honest early on, that often for me, it's a sense of overwhelm.
00:24:29
Speaker
I'm just simply overwhelmed by the sheer amount of work, amount of thought and care that I feel is on my shoulders and I'm not sure how to handle it. And so I will keep it in. But unloading those worries or frustrations to fill before they get to that point, to God regularly, that can help keep it in check. And then I'm in a better position to say and to bring up a conversation like, you know what, I'm not angry.
00:24:58
Speaker
but I have been feeling really anxious lately or, you know, sometimes I will now say like, you know, I feel really overwhelmed right now. I can't add one more thing to my head until A, B or C is finished up, you know, and then it's just out and it depersonalizes my mood. No, you're totally right. And I think if there's one gift we can give our children, I have actually, one of my sons does get very overwhelmed and I taught him early on to just say to me, mommy, I'm overwhelmed and he doesn't have to try to come up with
00:25:26
Speaker
any other words to describe what he's feeling and as soon as he says that we stop what we're doing and I just put my arms around him but we need to be teaching our kids exactly what we're saying right now so that they too can catch these feelings early on and so it doesn't grow you know explode for them so that they have this as a tool for when they're older.
00:25:45
Speaker
Right. And, you know, that leads to another point too, that people are not mind readers. We are not mind readers. And so it seems silly that I have to remind myself of this, that we want people to know what to do and how to do it the way we want.
00:26:03
Speaker
But how can they unless we share what's on our mind? Right? Yeah, we have to give people something to work on. And that's kind of like what the article was alluding to too. You were saying like, just tell me how you want it done and I'll do it. Often the unreasonable side of our argument is you should just know. Yeah. And why? Why should they? And you know what? It's not
00:26:28
Speaker
That's not the role for your husband all the time. If you do want a mind reader and you're like, that's what your girlfriends are kind of for. I feel like women get other women, right? Do that better. That's right.
Support Systems and Friendships
00:26:37
Speaker
And so if that means going out for a glass of wine with your girlfriend, with your girlfriends, you don't have, they, we all get it. So as all of us know, you just have to say a few words and be like, Oh my gosh, they wasn't saying they're like, I'm right here with you. And that is what, that's why we can lean on each other and have that. Our husbands aren't always going to be that. So it's really important to nurture female friendships as well.
00:26:56
Speaker
Right. And then the last thing that I've been trying to do is really remembering the goal and have my eyes on the prize, right? Like, what are we working towards here? Because being married, especially in the Catholic Church, you know, we set out the goals and guidelines very clearly in our vows. And in the covenant and sacrament of marriage, we're called as a couple to do certain things.
00:27:23
Speaker
And I'm finding that when, again, I have this presence of mind in the moment to remember this, because I don't usually in the moments, it does help grant the bigger picture and a grander perspective. And when I can keep my mind on God's plan and on His will for our marriage and our family, it tends to take the edge off of that daily grind. And all of a sudden, yes, of course, it's still laborious to have to be the mental catalog.
00:27:52
Speaker
for how everyone's doing, but there is a purpose to it now and there is a goal and there is a partner in this battle, one who completes your deficiencies because also, you know, we also have to admit we're not the perfect partner either to our spouses.
00:28:09
Speaker
And we also have shortcomings that put strain on them and frustrate them too. So it is the nature of two imperfect people trying to accomplish something that was always meant to be perfect and that is like married life as determined by God. So no wonder there are frustrations in it, but having a divine perspective can keep it in check.
00:28:38
Speaker
Okay, it's time for our What I'm Loving This Week segment of the
Personal Interests and Recommendations
00:28:42
Speaker
show. So Lindsay, what have you been loving this week? Michelle, I have been loving McDonald's $1 ice cream cones. We have been living off ice cream.
00:28:54
Speaker
Well, you did say In the summer living episode that ice cream can be dinner. Yeah, absolutely did So I'm just just so people know I'm like walking the walk and talking That's right. So we as everybody knows we don't have a kitchen We have now done four full weeks without a kitchen and I'm doing pretty well It's still like cooking in our just the stove that's sitting in the middle of our empty room. I
00:29:18
Speaker
Um, but being able to leave this dust filled empty house and go sit in McDonald's and get, um, six cones for like $6 is amazing. And we couldn't really make ice cream cones for that amount. And so I just, I'm really thankful McDonald's. Thank you, McDonald's. They can sponsor us if they'd like, uh, on this podcast, but yeah, I am loving it. You are loving, you are loving it.
00:29:43
Speaker
I can't believe I didn't think of that. I feel like I could just go on and on. Have you had one of their $1 cones yet? I haven't. I think I vaguely remember hearing about this, but please tell me. They're giant. I even said to Jason, they could get away with serving much smaller cones. I feel like the value is incredible for this $1 ice cream cone.
00:30:08
Speaker
I feel silly saying this, but they're just, they really have been making our summer in the middle of this renovation, just to be able to scoot out with the kids and get some cold ice cream. Yeah. I'm, I'm often suspicious when people say this is a mini cone. Yeah. Yeah. And I give it to my three-year-olds and I think that's a mini cone. What is your single? Oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So what have you been loving this week?
00:30:30
Speaker
Okay, so I have actually been loving some spiritual reading. I've taken up the interior castle by Saint Teresa of Avila. I actually tried reading this a few years ago and I never finished. It's really deep. It has a lot of depth to it, but I have been struggling lately in my prayer life just with like persevering. I don't find it very interesting just being honest here.
00:30:55
Speaker
And so I thought maybe spiritual reading would help give me a boost. And so the Holy Spirit, he's really good. He knows what we need, what we can handle, when that time is. And so this time around, it is hitting me in so many different ways. But the one thing I love about St. Teresa is to me, she is so relatable. I get her sense of humor and the way that she thinks. So she writes like she talks, I imagine. You would imagine.
00:31:24
Speaker
Because when did she die like 400 years ago? Oh yeah, give or take. And in her writing she like has asides to herself almost, right? Like she's like speaking and then she goes, and I don't really know why I'm
00:31:41
Speaker
writing this or saying this and so that's how I think that's how I think and I process things too so she's very endearing to me like a friend um so it truly is it's a good handbook for prayer but even more so than that curiously I'm just finding a real camaraderie with a saint which is so cool because like you said she died like almost 400 years ago you and I both firmly believe that saints seek us out and they kind of adopt us when they are when they know that we're ready to
00:32:10
Speaker
learn what they learned and ready to like lean on them. So that's awesome.
Connecting with the Podcast
00:32:17
Speaker
Okay, that's going to do it for us this week. And if you want to get in touch and chat with us about our topic today, you can find us on our website, www.themodernlady1950.wordpress.com, or leave us a comment on Facebook or Instagram at the Modern Lady Podcast. I'm Michelle Sacks, and you can find me on Instagram at mmsacks. And I'm Lindsay Murray, and you can find me on Instagram at Lindsay Homemaker.
00:32:45
Speaker
Thank you so much for listening, have a great week, and we will see you next time.