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Losing Yourself In Motherhood
241 Plays1 year ago
There’s no doubt that motherhood changes a woman - this has been the experience of mothers all over the world since the beginning of time! But lately, we’ve been hearing more and more talk on the subject of LOSING yourself in motherhood and we’ve been wondering… perhaps there’s more than one way to take that. This week, we're chatting about the voices in a mother's head, matrescence, and how the idea of losing yourself in motherhood could actually help you find yourself in some ways. Also this week, we're so excited to invite a few of our listeners on the podcast for the first time to share THEIR advice to new moms!
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Transcript
Identity Transformation in Motherhood
00:00:00
Speaker
There is a TED talk on this and it's very short. It's only about six minutes long and it's, I believe it's Dr. Alexandra Sacks. Let me double check that because that is my name. I think it's Dr. Michelle Sacks. It sounded familiar. I'm pretty sure. It is Alexandra Sacks, but with a CK, not a CH. In case you wanted to know.
00:00:40
Speaker
Welcome back to the Modern Lady podcast. You're listening to episode 142. Hi, I'm Michelle. And I'm Lindsay. And today we are talking about motherhood. When you become a mother, your amazing children introduce you to a new life that you may not have ever imagined. But motherhood and our identity in it is just as much about our growth as our kids and how we see ourselves, how we approach this new mission can make all the difference.
00:01:10
Speaker
But first, the best way that you can support The Modern Lady is by subscribing to our podcast on whatever app you use to listen to podcasts and by sharing us with your friends. We also welcome you to join us over at patreon.com forward slash The Modern Lady podcast, where for just $5 a month, you will get exclusive and extra content.
00:01:29
Speaker
This week's shout out is actually a recommendation from us as well as a celebration of all the hard work a friend of ours has been doing. We want to say hello to Karina Frazier. Karina was widowed just one year ago and she is the mother of a sweet little boy.
00:01:45
Speaker
She is very multi-talented, creating Catholic activity and workbooks and other materials that she has been selling on Amazon. And just this week, she launched her own website, selling new items like fridge magnet sets for kids that show how to dress up priests and nuns in their vestments and habits, as well as how to set up the altar for mass. She's currently in the process of making some beautiful holy water fonts too, and many other items.
00:02:13
Speaker
Please give Karina a follow on social media at vidua fidelis, that's v-i-d-u-a-f-i-d-e-l-i-s, and check out her website www.viduafidelis.ca.
00:02:31
Speaker
If you would like to leave us a comment or message us about today's episode, the best way to get in touch with us is on Instagram at the Modern Lady podcast. But be sure to stay tuned to the end of the episode for other ways to connect because we would love to hear from you. And this week for an extra special surprise where some of our listeners get to hop on the podcast and they'll be sharing with us some of their advice for new mothers.
00:03:01
Speaker
But before we get into today's chat, Lindsay has our Modern Lady Tip of the Week. It's spooky season, black cats, Friday the 13th. It's on my mind, and I couldn't help but think that now is a great time to dive into the origins of some of the most persistent superstitions out there that have stood the test of time. Now I'm not superstitious, I'm a little stitious, and please tell me y'all got that reference from the office.
00:03:28
Speaker
So if you want to consider these as tips, go right ahead. Let's first look at the saying, or action, knock on wood. Or if you're in England, it's touch wood. This saying has been around since at least the 19th century, according to History.com. The most common origin story for this saying takes us back to pagan times in Celtic regions where people believe that spirits inhabited trees, and so touching or knocking on a tree could rouse the spirits.
00:03:55
Speaker
However, it might not be from pagan times at all. There does seem to be a recent trend of trying to link everything back to pagan times. Instead, this saying might be tied to a children's game of tag called Tiki Touchwood, in which kids were safe from being caught if they touched wood. This comes from a book that I now need to buy, called The Lore of the Playground by British folklorist Steve Rowde.
00:04:21
Speaker
Here's tip number two. Do not step on a crack lest you break your mother's back. This one keeps hanging on. My kids joke about it all the time. Okay, so this one may or may not have some very murky beginnings that involve racism. The problem that sometimes arises is that people really enjoy origin stories for things like nursery rhymes and superstitions.
00:04:41
Speaker
So, like with trying to attach them to pagan times, there is sometimes a tendency to pretend that it was from a problematic time in history, which unfortunately gives people the chance to repeat nasty things under the guise of sharing an old tale. And this is likely what happened with this superstition in England in the 1950s, when people said that the rhyme for crack was the word black, and I won't share the rhyme that they used to say.
00:05:07
Speaker
And now to go in a totally different direction. There is another line that says something like, step on a crack and you'll be chased by bears. Not very catchy, but that comes from a poem written by Winnie the Pooh author A.A. Milne. Finally, stepping on cracks is something that most people have avoided throughout history, perhaps due to the belief that hell or the underworld is exposed.
00:05:30
Speaker
And finally, I'll keep this one short. This is also the oldest superstition that I am sharing here as it dates back 5,000 years to ancient Egypt. And this is the don't walk under a ladder one. Egyptians believed that the space between the ladder and the wall housed spirits, both bad and good. This idea was then transformed by Christians who saw the Holy Trinity symbolized by the triangle shape formed by the leaning ladder on the wall.
00:05:57
Speaker
and didn't want to walk through the Holy Trinity. But I think it's just ultimately good practice to not walk under a ladder because you could knock someone off it or something could fall on you. Or maybe you don't want to disrupt the Trinity. Who am I to say? Now next week I'm going to dive right into the origins of Friday the 13th because that episode will launch on Halloween.
00:06:18
Speaker
Hmm. Okay. So I, I do love origin stories, but I've never considered the origin story of like sayings or like nursery rhymes. Well, nursery rhymes to a certain extent, but superstitions. Yes. Superstitions. Yeah. I was, I was thinking about seeing the cracks in the sidewalk.
00:06:44
Speaker
And I'm nervous about them for a different reason. And that's because when I see cracks in the pavement, I know that the construction crews are coming soon. They're probably going to shut my street down. So in 50 to 100 or more years, that may be another origin story for that scene.
Religious vs Secular Perspectives on Motherhood
00:07:07
Speaker
But there's no doubt that motherhood changes a woman. This has been the experience of mothers all over the world since the beginning of time. But lately, we've been hearing more and more talk about the subject of losing yourself in motherhood. And we've been wondering, perhaps there's more than one way to take that. And maybe it's not all such a bad thing, right, Lindsay?
00:07:31
Speaker
Yeah. You know, Michelle, when I first started seeing a lot of reels, that's where this really started for me about like this concept of losing yourself in motherhood. I was like, no, no, I found myself in motherhood. And I find that's the common response maybe on the religious side of things. And I was like, oh, is there a great divide here between maybe like the secular moms and the religious moms? And as you and I started to look into this, we realized there's actually
00:07:57
Speaker
a lot of common ground here, that a lot of us are feeling a lot of these things, but I think that maybe on one side we're kind of fed this story that it is so much worse than it is, and you kind of fall into this pit of despair, which is already there when you have a baby. We call it the tunnel of darkness, but I feel like sometimes social media can really put you there. Or on the other side, I would say really well-catechized Catholic women or Christian women.
00:08:25
Speaker
I feel like I have this tendency to be like, nope, everything's fine. I'm offering it all up. I'm strong. I got to suffer and all this stuff too. And I think on the surface, we think that there's this huge chasm between these two sides. But no, no, you and I found out that there is a sense of loss and there is grief in that early part and it's perfectly normal and most of us are feeling it.
00:08:49
Speaker
yes yeah you're right like on the surface it looks like you have to choose one side or the other yeah and in it in a weird way like that's your camp forever yes but yeah like what we were finding out was that both kind of uh exist
00:09:07
Speaker
in the world of motherhood and it doesn't have to be quite so extreme one way or the other. There is like this melding in the middle that kind of happens and the more we know about it, perhaps the less extreme it can feel.
00:09:24
Speaker
Yeah, I think what we're discovering is there's a very universal experience for motherhood that I think mother's history have felt. And now I definitely think it's been heightened by social media, and we'll talk about that in a minute. But I think that I'm learning that it's a lot more universal. We're all feeling the same thing, but then I think what you do with it based on whether
00:09:42
Speaker
You have a view of heaven and growing in holiness through suffering or that this is it. This is your season of life. You've got these kids and it's not all fun and games like you thought it was going to be and you're just trying to get your teeth through it and hope that the next stage is better and better and better.
00:10:01
Speaker
Um, but that they're in the middle of that, like what you're saying, there is this like universal sensation that I think so many of us feel. And I think that's some, that starts in the place we want to take this to at the beginning is what you kind of take with you into motherhood. Um, right. And we think it kind of starts there because
00:10:18
Speaker
We believe that there are so many voices in our heads as mothers, right? And you and I were trying to, like, we were really talking about this. We're like, where do all of these voices come from? And there's the messaging that we've heard from our own mothers, from the women in our family. And then from, like we're saying, from social media right now, my goodness, like if you click on one reel about motherhood, whether it's one of those sadder, negative toned ones about how hard it is and you're just drowning under everything,
00:10:46
Speaker
And that might have been comforting for you to watch. We're not saying that's all bad, but that might be like that'll fall into your algorithm and then that's all you're seeing or the positive, the perfect view of motherhood on the other side of Instagram. So you're having those voices, your friends, experts, your doctor, your husband, coworkers, like you have all of that, right? All of these voices in your head.
00:11:10
Speaker
And then you also have the voice of yourself pre the baby coming. Yes, yes. Right? I do think that's a very strong voice too. I know I remember before I had kids and I think this is a common experience. We think we have it all planned out, like the things that we're definitely not going to do, the things that we are definitely are going to do.
00:11:35
Speaker
And we carry that with us as the baby is born and there is an adjustment period even with our own voice in our own heads. Being like, okay, whoa. Maybe it doesn't look exactly like my own expectations. And so you're right, like all of these competing factors, it can sometimes be difficult to discern
00:11:59
Speaker
you know, which voice is the one you kind of should be going with. Absolutely. And then just in addition to the voices we're also bringing into our motherhood, like our own temperaments, our childhoods, whether it was a great childhood or not, that obviously has a huge impact.
00:12:16
Speaker
how we've seen motherhood represented in the media, and that's changed drastically over the years. Our economic situation, right? You can have all of these dreams of being the type of mom that you want to be, but if you can't afford to be the cookie baking, apron wearing mom and staying at home, that changes your experience of motherhood as well.
00:12:34
Speaker
And so it's a lot that we're bringing into that and so that you and I just kept feeling Like as we were discussing this we just kept feeling so overwhelmed by all of those voices ourselves and we're like we Need to narrow this down like yes, so you and I came up with what we believe are like the top three voices Obviously, there's a lot more wisdom out there in different places where you can get it But for you and I were like hey what three things do if we look back on our early years as moms
00:13:05
Speaker
Do you think we should have maybe focused more on, and you might come up with your own list, but we'll share the three things that we think we kind of wish we would have listened more to.
00:13:16
Speaker
And you're right in saying like there are other good voices out there, right?
Voices Influencing a Mother's Identity
00:13:23
Speaker
So they'll kind of come in at various points when they need to. You're right, this is like an exercise in culling down to the three that we need to work extra hard at being able to easily recognize in our lives.
00:13:39
Speaker
And these three, I think, all of them, if you develop them well, they set the foundation for the rest of, like, the other people who might come and go in your life. I think these three voices, if you kind of get a handle on this in those very earliest years, and it is hard, it is hard to develop, like, to really develop that relationship listening to these three sources. But if you do, it will serve you, I think, for the rest of your life, truly. Okay, so the first one,
00:14:06
Speaker
You and I agree hands down as God's voice. Um, he is your father. He is my father, right? The most powerful times of prayer I've ever experienced are those early mornings in the darkness, that brief moment before all the kids are awake. And I try to envision God, God, the father sitting beside me on the couch, like, like my own dad and, and being like, tell me what you're feeling.
00:14:32
Speaker
Tell me what you're feeling right now in the darkness, right? In the morning, the early still morning. What are you scared of? What are you worried about? Where do you think you're failing? What do you need my help with? Like just pour it out to me. It was only really then that I started to enter into a relationship with God. He is our Father. He's Abba Father. The only prayer Jesus taught us is the our Father. Like that imagery is so strong. And so I just think that really being, developing that relationship with Him
00:14:59
Speaker
And then what a beautiful gift we have in Mary, right? The church gives us Mary. Well, actually, let's be correct here. In John 19, Jesus gives us Mary, behold your mother. That wasn't just to the beloved disciple, that was to all of us. And so we have the masculine in God the Father and in Jesus, but we have the feminine in Mary. And I can't tell you all, and I'm sure you as well, Michelle,
00:15:25
Speaker
So sometimes my only prayer is Mary be a mother to me now as I'm learning to mother. So, you know, we've got that right there. You know, Jesus came into the world, God came into the world through a family, and we've got that right there as the model. So we need to access that.
00:15:42
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. And when you're talking about calling on Mary to be a mother to us, I sometimes imagine myself kind of hiding under her mantle, right? Like the mantle she wears over her head and it comes down past her shoulders. And you had that great image of curling up beside God the Father.
00:16:03
Speaker
And I also envision just when I am feeling raw and sometimes motherhood can leave you feeling very vulnerable. And it just is so comforting to know that you can curl up in her motherly arms as well.
00:16:21
Speaker
she'll mother you and you can like hide out there for a little while. And then the other thing I was thinking about God's voice too is really thinking that what God asks of us is often less than what we put on ourselves societally and culturally. So like if you look at what God asks of us in scripture and through the church, it's things like
00:16:46
Speaker
trust me, love others, love me, listen to and follow me and my church. Like that's the repeating message. And he leaves the method for those things up to our individual temperaments and our personalities. And then we kind of complicate things and, you know, we'll say to God, but wouldn't you rather
00:17:09
Speaker
have these amazing things instead, Lord. For me to do these awesome things instead, Lord, surely it's not enough to just trust in you and lean into you. But it is. His voice tells us, you are enough because you're my child and to trust me in this call to motherhood that I have brought you to in your life.
00:17:36
Speaker
Yes, and I have to say that one of the greatest gifts of motherhood and watching my husband grow in his fatherhood or as Fulton Sheen calls it mother craft and father craft, which I love so much isn't it's incredible is that as you grow as a mother and as your husband grows as a father and
00:17:56
Speaker
You understand God's love for you more and like I really started to understand God as a father when I watched Jason fathering our children and I had never seen a love like that and and then like what you're saying where God just wants us to know him and to love him and to serve him through the church and by
00:18:16
Speaker
Um, being good people, right? Holy people. And you do realize just how simple that relationship actually is. Cause that's all we want from our own kids. But you don't actually know that until your kids are getting older and you just want to be there for them and you want to listen to everything they have to say. And so I just want to say that as my kids were getting older and I was developing a legitimate relationship with them, I started to understand, Oh my goodness, if this is what I feel towards my kids, I can bring everything to God. And he loves me a thousand fold.
00:18:46
Speaker
And when you were talking about mothercraft and fathercraft, such great words.
Marriage and Motherhood in Catholic Theology
00:18:54
Speaker
That kind of brings us to the second voice that we had talked about being so critical to develop in our own minds. And that's the marital voice.
00:19:04
Speaker
And I just love that term too, the marital voice. So we believe as Catholics that the sacrament of marriage literally binds two people into one person, right? And that the ultimate purpose and goal of a sacramental marriage is to get one another to heaven, to the best of our abilities, and to raise children to know and love the Lord.
00:19:29
Speaker
And that's also it. God is saying, just do that and I'll help you. But the spouse's voice in particular, it can often serve us so well to listen to it and to learn how to listen to it. Often for me, I find that it's much more gentle than my own. When I'm feeling like less than as a mother or lost, it's often Phil's voice that reassures me.
00:19:56
Speaker
And on the other side of the coin, when I'm in need of improvements, we'll say, you know, he is, you know, we talked about iron sharpens iron in marriage. He's my iron, right? And he'll discuss it with me. And I know he'll be honest and frank, but that the goal of him is ultimately to see me to a better version of myself too in my motherhood and as a person like I am to be to him as well.
00:20:26
Speaker
learning to listen to and hear with charity, the marital voice is really a great thing to have going for you in your journey into motherhood. Absolutely. And if you're listening to this thinking, well, it starts the minute you get married. It does not. You really have to grow in learning to listen to that marital voice.
00:20:51
Speaker
And I will just be honest that it's one of the biggest mistakes I made in the early part of my marriage. Even though Jason and I have been together for years, I really had one foot in the door at my parents house first. So whenever something would go on, I would call my parents first and not my husband, or I would call my best friend or my other friends and not my husband.
00:21:09
Speaker
And it, I really realized it took me way too long to understand we are on the same team that like husband and wife are that one person and that you leave the home of your mother and father. And I think that this becomes really crucial in those earliest days with a baby because a new mom is going to want to lean on her mother often. Right. And, and that's great. And I'll, we'll talk about that in a little bit, but there's also this idea of bringing like the husband in right at the beginning, really forming
00:21:38
Speaker
that unbreakable bond in those early times. And I didn't do that well. And so it felt like me, the baby, kind of my mom, and then like Jason off to the side for the first year with our first baby. And so just learn from me to really develop that marital voice because he loves you and that baby more than you can even imagine. And so you have to really learn to hear each other's voices. There is grace through the sacrament of marriage, grace upon grace upon grace.
00:22:06
Speaker
Where is Jesus operating through the very act of your marriage? And you learn to access that grace the more you practice the skill of really hearing each other. And I'll bring Fulton Sheen in another time where he just says that when a new baby is born, there is a veil that is lifted between husband and wife and you grow to see each other more and more clearly with each baby.
00:22:29
Speaker
And I just, that has stuck with me and it is so true. And it's for better and for worse, like warts and all, right? Like you are a totally different person by baby number four. Oh no, the veil. The veil. Keep the veil. Trying to pull it back down.
00:22:50
Speaker
Oh, my warts. Yup. It's hard. But that's another beautiful progression of the marriage. But yeah, just from my own experience, I feel like I didn't give enough attention to this in those early years, and it did affect us. And we had to learn how to really hear each other in the marital voice. So yeah, that's number two.
00:23:15
Speaker
I do like and appreciate that you're talking so much about how it is an ongoing revelation.
00:23:23
Speaker
of the marital voice, right? Because I think this is a whole other topic and episode is, you know, the voices and expectations we bring into marriage. We probably do expect for that to be perfect the moment we say I do. And so that's a really good recognition that if it's not
00:23:47
Speaker
perfection at the very beginning. That's okay. The point is to be aware that you would like to develop it.
00:23:57
Speaker
and to grow in it and that you're actively seeking opportunities to do that with your spouse and that there's grace on both sides as you try to navigate it. And for our third one, this one seems a bit more abstract, so bear with us, but you and I had a very strong desire to share this one because we were both very united in this idea that
00:24:20
Speaker
What we do every day in our motherhood is being observed by our daughters. And when we mean our daughters, we mean our actual daughters. You have two and I have two, but also by our future daughter-in-laws through our son's eyes and understanding of what motherhood is.
00:24:38
Speaker
And then just the collective daughters like so one of the voices like what do we mean by this our daughter's voice? What we mean is that I want my decisions my moods my affections everything about my motherhood I want to view it through the future lens of how
00:24:55
Speaker
my daughter and other daughters are going to view their motherhood, right? So that encourages me to be more gentle with myself so that she will be gentle with herself and encourages me to speak out and advocate for myself more so that she also learns that. So one of those voices is I kind of like try to foresee the future and think like, what does she need to hear?
00:25:17
Speaker
in the future from me now so that it forms her ideas of motherhood in a healthy way. Yes. Yes. I, I know what you mean, like trying to explain it. It's so clear in our heads. So I hope it's getting across, but yeah, it's almost like when I say to myself, I'm tired that it's actually in a daughter's voice. Yeah.
00:25:43
Speaker
you know, and I'm looking on the next generation of mothers who are saying I'm tired.
00:25:48
Speaker
And that's in my head. So I treat myself, give myself the grace that I hope they bestow on themselves in their moment. So it is kind of abstract, but this and the other two voices that we mentioned, they are the three that really stood out to us amongst all the other ones. And the other ones, like you were saying, Lindsay, they have their place and their importance.
00:26:15
Speaker
But if you had to pick three to work on, because often you can't take on all of it at the same time, we think that these three voices are going to, as you said, set ourselves up well to be able to navigate and to hear what is true. And that's often something that we have trouble recognizing when life is so overwhelming, is what is true and what is our reality right here and now.
00:26:44
Speaker
Yeah. So speaking of our reality, let's get into our vocation. So we use the word vocation often in the podcast and we like throw out a very quick definition, but we thought now is the perfect time because when you Google motherhood and you attach it at all to the word Catholicism, you're going to get motherhood as a vocation. But here's the thing, that's not the
00:27:07
Speaker
full truth. So let's just define vocation first. So I got this from catholicculture.org and it says, a call from God to a distinctive state in life in which the person can reach holiness. The second Vatican council made it plain that there is a universal call to holiness in the church.
00:27:24
Speaker
end quote. Okay, so what does that mean? Well, as Catholics, we encourage our kids to pray for God to reveal to them their vocations starting when they're very young. Now, this doesn't mean that every child is going to see like a ray of heavenly light illuminate their bed, and they're going to receive a clear and distinct calling to the priesthood or into consecrated religious life at the age of eight.
00:27:46
Speaker
But some have, right? We know the stories of the saints, some have. And we hope that for everybody because it makes life very simple. But rather, we teach our kids this, I think for two reasons. First, to help them understand that God has a plan for their lives and to trust that His plan is perfect.
00:28:07
Speaker
And the reminder that we bring everything to prayer. So it's this constant, like, what is your will for me? What is your will for my life? What is my vocation? And so, yeah, again, your vocation is what God is calling you to a state in life. And within that calling, within that actual state of life are all of the ingredients you're going to need for good and for bad, for good and for bad, the trials and the joys.
00:28:32
Speaker
to grow in holiness. Now there are four different callings to vocation within the Catholic Church. There's marriage, religious life, priesthood, and the single life. And so you are being called into one of those.
00:28:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I love learning more about vocations just as a whole. And those four that you mentioned, what's interesting is that motherhood isn't a vocation in and of itself. Marriage is, right? So that ties into what we were talking about with the marital voice being so critical and important because that's actually the vocation that you're in. And then motherhood is like, it's an extension of that vocation. It's a part of that.
00:29:13
Speaker
vocation, right? Yes, yes. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, there is a two-fold purpose to the vocation of marriage, namely the good of the spouses themselves and the transmission of life. So that means the first purpose of marriage is that the spouses grow together in goodness and this prepares them for heaven. But the second purpose is carrying on God's loving work of creation as co-creators with him through their openness to new life.
00:29:40
Speaker
So like you were saying, Michelle, our vocation is to marriage, and if we are open to life and God blesses us with children, then our motherhood becomes an expansion of our primary vocation.
00:29:51
Speaker
I love that God through the church tells you exactly what you need to do. Like there's no guesswork. And so you can really lean into your vocation without worrying that you're missing something important. It's all, like you said, all there for you within marriage as the vocation and then what comes within your marriage.
00:30:17
Speaker
Yes, and I think that that's such a good reminder. And I do think we forget this, right? But then it is that reminder as you're changing your 100th diaper, as you're washing the dishes again, all of those moments where you're like, no, my path to holiness is built right into this. Like this is it. I remind women all the time when I get so many first-time moms messaging me and asking questions, and I've always said the same thing, you are building a cathedral. This is your life's work.
00:30:46
Speaker
And so, of course, there are greater things. Sometimes we want to do greater things. We want to help in other areas of ministry. You and I have this podcast, right? It's not just changing diapers, but what we mean is that God is built within those duties, those everyday mundane chores, the ladder rungs that you need to climb on the ladder towards holiness. It's all right there. And you're right, you don't have to second guess that. If you've really prayerfully discerned that you've been called to the married life,
00:31:14
Speaker
and you enter into a sacramental marriage and God blesses you with children, this is what he's planned for you. And there is just like a beautiful surrender within that. What's really interesting about all of that is that it's such a beautiful big picture view on an entire life's work, like what you're saying. But it's in the bricklaying of the cathedral that I'm sure there were some really hot days, the bricklayers,
00:31:44
Speaker
where the stonemasons are like carving, they're like...
00:31:48
Speaker
200th gargoyle, I don't know, on a cathedral. They're like, is this, like, what am I doing here? And that big picture can get murky in the minutia. It's a metaphor wrapped in an analogy. You're following me here. Yes. So you're saying they're losing themselves, right? Like, I'm losing myself in this grand project.
00:32:14
Speaker
like it's all well and good to think that I'm growing these adults and I'm preparing these little souls I'm co-creating with God and these I'm raising these saints for heaven to get to their eternal crowns and all these oh that sounds great but what about today
00:32:28
Speaker
When I have no idea who I am anymore, when I don't think I've laughed for real in a very long time where I don't feel desirable, all of these things, I have lost myself. Well, again, I think my knee-jerk reaction since becoming more, quote, religious was always like, well, that's fine. You need to lose yourself, death to self.
00:32:45
Speaker
We'll get into that.
Emotional Shifts in Motherhood
00:32:47
Speaker
But then I started doing the research and I'm like, Oh no, this is real. Like, and I have felt this and we've all felt it. So we're actually going to look at this now on this idea of losing yourself a motherhead because it is on one hand trendy on social media, but there is so much more to it. So what is it that moms say that they've lost? Well, according to an article on Lucy's list.com, it's no more me time. It's loss of routine relationships, sex drive,
00:33:12
Speaker
their bodies, their brains, their personality, and so on. And I honestly think we'd be hard pressed to find a mom who doesn't see themselves somewhere in that list. And then, in fact, there is a word for this sense of loss and grief experienced. There is a loss and a grief.
00:33:31
Speaker
as a woman transitions into motherhood. And there's a term that was coined in the 1970s by a medical anthropologist named Dana Raphael. And the term is mattress sense. So continuing on in this article on Lucy list.com goes on to say that it's a huge shift in emotions.
00:33:48
Speaker
and lifestyle, and she compares it to adolescence. But saying that in many ways, we make way for young people to go through that transition. We see it for what it is. We give them the space to change and grow. We give them lots of grace as their moods fluctuate like a roller coaster.
00:34:04
Speaker
And it doesn't seem like we're as aware of this transition for new moms. We're so focused on the baby and perhaps secondarily on the mom's physical state, like her healing, her breastfeeding, her sleep. And many of the most loving support givers don't fully grasp the massive emotional transformation that she is undergoing.
00:34:29
Speaker
Yeah, when you mentioned Mattressense to me, I actually hadn't heard of it before. And looking into it more, I found it so fascinating because it really does accurately describe this very real transitional period. Like what we were saying at the very beginning of the episode, no matter how much you prepare,
00:34:50
Speaker
For motherhood, you still are probably going to be surprised by the reality of it when it comes. And that is a really big acknowledgement to make that it is a different lifestyle and it's a completely different set of expectations that you need to adopt and adapt on the fly while you're figuring out how to provide for and sustain your child this new baby.
00:35:18
Speaker
And you're right, like the whole emphasis, it does seem like and understandably so, so focused on the baby. Yeah. Right. I was reading an article in Mattressense, I forget where it was, but it was saying that in certain cultures, the term is a woman has given birth. And often what we say here in Western culture anyways, is a baby has been born. Whoa.
00:35:45
Speaker
Yes, I know. And I was really struck by that because I'm like, oh, that's very true. So it could be that it is a very cultural thing. And like I said, it's understandable that there would be so much focus on this baby because they need to be kept safe and warm and provided for. But in that you do kind of lose the sense that something really profound has actually also taken place with the mother herself.
00:36:13
Speaker
Absolutely. And it is profound. And there is a loss. There are many losses and bigger losses that they experience. There are things that go away. Some friendships, long time friendships you've had that just don't transition well into motherhood. There is grief. And grief comes when there is a great loss.
00:36:32
Speaker
A death. And the biggest thing that I've noticed that's different from my Catholic friends and my non-Catholic friends is this knowledge then of death to self. This is something we talk about all the time as Catholics and how necessary a step on the road this is to personal holiness.
00:36:47
Speaker
So I have found that the early days, weeks, and months of motherhood, it does feel like death sometimes, which is so wild, which explains this immense emotional journey because it's literally you're holding new life. You are looking at the epitome of life.
00:37:04
Speaker
of creation in your hands. But there are parts of you that are suffering and dying at that same time. And I think that if you don't have like a resurrection worldview, then it does just feel like death. That's just that.
00:37:19
Speaker
But we believe that you're meant to be born again, that the dead parts of you are meant to be sloughed off and that you are to become a new person. And then you can see how sweet this death is and you welcome it. Us crazy Catholics hashtag make Catholicism weird again.
00:37:37
Speaker
Yes, it has its purposes in so many areas of your life. Yeah, that whole recognition that a mother has, you were just mentioning it before about feeling one way, but looking down at her baby, which is so symbolic of life.
00:37:55
Speaker
It reminded me of a TED talk, and it's very short, but it's very good, all about this subject of matresins. And the speaker was Dr. Alexandra Sachs. And she was saying that there exists a tension, and she describes it to her patients as like a pull and push in a mother, right? Like you, your physical body, when you give birth, is developing oxytocin.
00:38:23
Speaker
Right? Which wants to bond with this new baby. Do anything for this baby. You would give up anything for this child, this new life. And while that pull towards your baby is happening,
00:38:38
Speaker
So many parts of you are pushing away and some of it for the reasons that you just mentioned like you might have relationships that are changing. You may have hobbies or interests that you're putting off to the side.
00:38:55
Speaker
But even just like your physical needs, like your body also needs sleep, you also need to eat, you also need to like, when she said go to the bathroom alone, right? So there's also a pushing away from this new stage of your life at the same time because you're so
00:39:18
Speaker
used to your identity before as well. So she's like, you kind of exist for a little while in this tension of pull and push. And it's very biological. It's very physical as well as mentally and emotionally. Wow. And I don't think that there's any way for a new mom in her hormone haze and
00:39:38
Speaker
exhausted zombie-like state to even understand that that's going on, right? Like you can't even be like, wait a sec, I know what's happening to me. Like you can't even wrap your hat. You're just feeling those things. Yeah. Like you're, you're just feeling it and you are like, what is happening to me?
00:39:53
Speaker
It's so overwhelming and and that led me into an article I read on Kate Borsato calm and in it She says moms who are feeling grief over some of the losses They're experiencing an early motherhood try to talk themselves out of that feeling of grief saying things like it's okay You can't buy yourself new summer clothes you get to shop for the family now or I really miss going out to dinner with my friends But I shouldn't complain because I'm so lucky to have had a baby
00:40:16
Speaker
Things like that. Women tend to minimize those feelings in an attempt to process through them, telling themselves that missing shopping or not going out is just not a big enough problem. But this doesn't erase that sense of losing those things. It just begins to flood the mom with a bunch of little losses, right? So you're not actually erasing the loss. And by telling yourself that you're just compounding these little losses, and that still feels like grief, and it's loss all the same.
00:40:44
Speaker
okay but i was reflecting on this because when i had my first two kids i was not religious and i i kept thinking back to me then and if you were to try to come to me in the in that those early days and be like but lindsay it's death to self
00:40:59
Speaker
You can do like you can offer up your suffering and we need to take up our cross and we can mortify the flesh. I would have bitten your head off. I would not have been able to understand what the heck you were trying to tell me. Yes, I really would have. And so I think that I'm just want to say that I don't I don't know if that's the right time to learn that necessarily that theological concept.
00:41:19
Speaker
Is like the first time with your first baby in the first two weeks But it is there there's a great opportunity to really understand this idea that you grow stronger Through suffering that when you learn to handle these things well when you do pick up your cross This is what motherhood is like and that doesn't go away okay like and that cross gets I think heavier and heavier as your children get older and
00:41:43
Speaker
and start to pull away from you and there's a bunch of other things that happen.
Motherhood as Personal Growth
00:41:47
Speaker
So I do think it's very, very important to learn how to go through that and to feel uncomfortable and to sit in the pain and all these things that motherhood gives you at the very beginning.
00:41:59
Speaker
So whether you have, I guess, a resurrectionist worldview or not, I think that it is very clear that this aspect of losing yourself in motherhood is mostly universal. And I mean, you can Google it and you will find countless articles on it. And again, I do think we lose parts of ourselves. But I feel that if we're tended to lovingly by ourselves, you know, by our spouses, by the people around us, we can become far more whole than we ever were before.
00:42:27
Speaker
Yeah, and it's an interesting place to live in, in this acknowledgement that suffering happens in the world, but also living in a world that doesn't like suffering. Yep. Right? Because the world has a strange take on it all. It does encourage us to keep away at every possible moment to anything that causes discomfort, let alone pain.
00:42:55
Speaker
Right and the church it does just have such a counter cultural approach. Yes. Yeah, it encourages it not in a Sadistic and pointless way. That's yeah. Yeah, it's just the
00:43:11
Speaker
Simple acknowledgement that it happens, suffering happens because of the fall in the Garden of Eden, because of our broken and fallen humanity, our distance from God, because of our choices and our decisions. All of this results in people living far from what he had always planned and hoped and wanted for us, including in our
00:43:31
Speaker
in our childbearing. Yeah. And so kind of, you know, on this trajectory, then we talk about losing ourselves in motherhood and there's like another take to it, I think, that
00:43:44
Speaker
you know, we can kind of spin it to thinking about ways that it's not actually completely negative, not 100% a bad thing all the time. So for example, I think losing yourself in motherhood could also be taken in a way that some of the things that I've lost were in a large part, you know, not the greatest things about myself, to be honest, right?
00:44:10
Speaker
Um, and we've mentioned before in previous episodes, I think how motherhood is like holy sandpaper and it just scrapes away all the parts of us that hold us back in that holiness and happiness that we talked about earlier.
00:44:25
Speaker
it forms us into better versions of ourselves. And I know from my experience, I've reflected many times over the years how I would have never changed or transformed or improved upon certain aspects of my character that I actually really needed to if it weren't for the difficult parts of transitioning into motherhood and continuing as well to transition into motherhood.
00:44:55
Speaker
Yeah, when I think, have I lost myself in motherhood? Heck yeah, I have. And thank goodness I have. Praise be to God, I have. Because for me, and this isn't the case with everybody, but I was not a good person. And I mean, you guys can listen to my episode, A Light in the Darkness, about my conversion story. But I needed a lot of parts of myself to be lost, to be lost forever.
00:45:17
Speaker
And you're saying, I don't think I would have done that on my own. I don't think I would have recognized it. I don't think I would have had that reason to want to grow better. Because I was like, yeah, it's working for me. And it can work for me. But when you see that this is not going to work for your children, these parts of your behavior, oh, right down to right before we came into the church, I have my eldest daughter and my son are 22 months apart.
00:45:45
Speaker
And I remember I heard her speaking in the same tone to her little brother, like I was speaking to Jason and I was horrified. What a mirror held up to yourself. And I wasn't abusive to him, but I certainly didn't speak kindly to my husband for a very long time. But I didn't know what it sounded like until I heard my children doing it.
00:46:10
Speaker
And I think also that some of the things that I lost, you can really then reflect. And I mean, what else can you do when you're sitting on the couch for 7.5 years breastfeeding, like I did? Except for maybe some of these things that I lost, I want to bring back, but I want them to be different. I want to be better at these things, right?
00:46:30
Speaker
So in a lot of ways it prompted me to be better at those things too. So it's not even just losing things and then kind of existing. My children made me want to be better and this isn't just for me, this is everybody. For most people it makes you want to be a better person. So yeah, with the old, this horrible painful part of growth, it can hurt.
00:46:52
Speaker
right? And then, and then you become you grow with your children. Oh, this reminds me that there's this Instagram account called parents are human. And it just reminds kids like it says to teenagers like do you realize that your parents aren't only watching you grow, you're watching them grow up too. And I'm like, this is so true.
00:47:12
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, well, that goes along with the whole term of metressence. Yes. Right? There are parts that teenagers leave behind once they grow out of adolescence. Yeah. To become better people in the same, you're right, is true of parenthood too.
00:47:29
Speaker
Um, okay. So we're just gonna do this last section with some advice for you moms. Like when we reflect on some things that have worked well for us, um, you know, if I could go back and give myself a hug and man, don't just, you ever think about that, Michelle. Do you ever just picture you sitting there with your twins, your twins in your arms, Michelle, and your oldest who was only how old when you had twins?
00:47:52
Speaker
She was two. Okay. Yeah. She was a two year old with twins. Yep. So three babies under two. Yeah. And so like, do you ever just want to go and give that Michelle a big hug? Like I just, I find that there's, I love thinking on that and like, what would you tell yourself?
00:48:08
Speaker
And I think that the first thing that you and I both agree on is just a continuation of what we've already been saying. Detach and surrender, surrender to the process. And I don't think surrendering means giving up. I have said this before, but I think one of the ways I got through my early years with kids is I really pictured myself standing in water and I just let the waves go over me. And it wasn't giving up. It was just going, this is where I am right now.
00:48:36
Speaker
and just going with it, letting my body be carried by whatever was happening. And when I stopped trying to fight it, it worked out so much better. I was actually okay, right? So surrendering doesn't mean giving up. Right. Yeah. And I think that's an important distinction to make because
00:48:54
Speaker
We already don't feel our strongest when we're going through this transition, so we don't want to relinquish any more strength that we may feel. But I love that distinction that you're making, that it's not a weakness to surrender. In some ways, it's a mental strength.
00:49:13
Speaker
to be able to have the assurance that it's going to all just keep going. What's going to happen is going to happen. You are just going to keep going. You are competent and capable of going with the flow in those moments. You're going to surrender your expectations.
00:49:34
Speaker
surrender, surrender what you think you should be doing at any given time, what your friend is doing when she's trying to navigate motherhood, what any of those other voices are saying to you earlier, you're just surrendering and letting go of all of those so that you can be firmly planted in your present right now.
00:49:54
Speaker
Yep. And when you detach from all of that, whenever you and I talk about detachment, we talk about the other side is attachment. So you don't just detach and then float there. You pick then and you're intentional about what you want to attach back to. And again, it's back to God. It's to your marriage.
00:50:10
Speaker
And it's to that state of life that you're in. That reminds me of the one piece of advice my mom gave me when I had my first baby and it was so hard. And my mom looked at me one day and she was just like, tomorrow will be different. And in my head, I'm like, tomorrow will be better, right? And she's like, no, I'm not gonna tell you tomorrow's gonna be better. She goes, it's going to change every day. Tomorrow might be better, tomorrow might be worse, but it's going to be different tomorrow. It's going to change every day.
00:50:39
Speaker
And although that wasn't necessarily the most comforting thing, I'm so glad she gave me that dose of reality because that is the truth. And I held on to those words for 17 years. Tomorrow is going to be different. So if today's really good, I accept today for being really good.
00:50:54
Speaker
And if tomorrow is not, um, I accept that as well because the day after will be different. And that's sorry, Michelle, but that leads me into one more thing from, that I saw on Instagram that said a bad hour does not a bad day make. So that being said too, right? If you're having a bad hour, it doesn't mean the whole day is going to be bad. So it's just being really, again, surrendering and just being really open to wherever the day takes you with babies and toddlers.
00:51:20
Speaker
Yeah, and in going with that detachment theme and, you know, detaching from your expectations and what you think you should be doing and surrendering to the here and now, my mom used to always just assure me, like, this is where you're supposed to be.
00:51:39
Speaker
Like, no, this is what you're supposed to be doing. It was like an affirmation from her. Her voice, our mother's voices, right? Can often speak so much wisdom into our experience too. Of just, you know, when you just look around yourself in those moments and you think, what am I even doing here?
00:52:00
Speaker
Her words of assurance just being like, no, this, it doesn't look like it, but it is exactly what you're supposed to be doing and where you are. That I even found so comforting that I could just let go what I thought I should be doing instead and just really settle in to the here and now.
00:52:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think that sometimes we underestimate how important the words are, this is normal is, and this is where surrounding yourself with women that you trust can be your mother, it can be like your best friend. But having that group, this is like the additional voices that we were alluding to earlier. There is such a place for the words of wise women in your family and maybe not the women in your Facebook moms group.
00:52:44
Speaker
Oh, I have one woman write to me who's a grandma and she was babysitting her infant grandchild and she was letting the mom and dad go for a little date. And this baby needed a bottle just for this one date time. And so she didn't know which nipple to go by. She wanted to get everything ready. So she went onto a Facebook mom group and she's like, anybody, can anybody recommend the best nipple for a breastfed baby? She said she got so blasted by the women on there.
00:53:11
Speaker
for all different reasons that she got off and cried. That she got off and cried. And she's like, I'm in my fifties. And if I was a brand new mom and that's what I was facing online all the time, she's like, it's devastating. And so this reminder that you really should be very careful.
00:53:30
Speaker
About the women that you're speaking to during this period so have those trustworthy women around you because when you have that group of Experienced wiser women you are going to hear a lot. This is normal. This is normal. This is normal, right? Just like what your mom was saying and that and sometimes you might bristle at it because you want to be like no It can't be normal. This is different than anyone
00:53:51
Speaker
No, it's not. We've had eight babies between us, you and I, Michelle, and we want to be like, no, this is normal. And so yeah, I think that that's a really important voice to have in your head as well. I was looking into the word refined, and you know, Michelle, when I sent you the outline, we were laughing because I put like, look into the metal refinement process, which is or whatever, or whatever I put. Yeah.
00:54:17
Speaker
Totally something we would do. But of course I did actually look into it and then silly me, didn't realize that you refine a lot of things like sugar, oil, gold, metal. There's a lot of things that are refined. And the process is usually industrial.
00:54:32
Speaker
And it removes the impurities from the item, leaving you with a much better quality product, right? A pure product. Well, the refining process is never pretty or easy, right? Something is burned or melted down. It hurts. It transforms. This is surrender. This is the process you're going through so that you come out refined at the end. A better quality product, if you will.
00:55:02
Speaker
Did you personalize it for a moment? Yeah, I was looking through the refining process as well because we talk a lot about refining when we are speaking in spiritual terms, right? Like we asked, there's a whole praise and worship song, right? Refiners fire.
00:55:21
Speaker
Do you know it? No? Okay. My knowledge of Christian worship music is zero. But I'm glad I was onto something there with that, clearly. Yes, absolutely. And the whole song is asking God to help make you holy. You want to be purified by the refiner's fire, that God is the refiner. And we are those like crude metals.
00:55:51
Speaker
I love us for this. I love this. I love this for us. Crude medals. We are the sugar with molasses still in it. Yeah, and so like even the refining processes you were saying like
00:56:11
Speaker
I was looking into some of them. Some of them are so complex, I can't even pronounce the words of the refining process, but like in liquidation, right? You're melting the whole thing down so it's nothing but liquid. Yeah. So that only the pure liquid flows through and leaves the sediment behind, leaves the impurities behind. And then there's distillation, right? Where you're boiling something so that the pure substance evaporates
00:56:39
Speaker
And you collect the condensed substance and the impurities are left behind. And so when we talk about, you know, being refined, you're right, it lends itself to having to be melted down or broken first in order to be put back together whole.
00:57:00
Speaker
And then there is the Japanese concept we were talking about too, kintsugi, and that's the concept of when a vessel breaks or cracks. It is not thrown away, it's put back together again, but it is like melded back together with gold.
00:57:21
Speaker
like pure gold and the idea is that so that the thing that was broken and put back together again is even more beautiful because of the gold that binds it back together than it was before it was broken. And that is kind of what this surrender loss in motherhood can look like from us if we choose to embrace it and be refined by the process.
00:57:49
Speaker
Yeah, what I love about that Japanese process is it doesn't hide the cracks, right? Like it completely illuminates the cracks. And so you're not hiding that brokenness, those parts of yourself, you are truly growing more beautiful and more whole as you go through this process. So motherhood is honestly, I couldn't think of a greater gift.
00:58:10
Speaker
um for that process then the sweetest little baby in your arms um and it is such a wonderful thing i know that we're talking so much about the hard parts and this is what you guys want to talk about these are the messages i get um all of that is real
00:58:25
Speaker
But when moms tell you to enjoy it, especially the older ones, oh my goodness, they are not just saying that. So they irritate you and you go home and do a story of the old lady at the store who sang something to you. She's almost crying because she would give anything to be back there. I'm on the brink of that. Jason and I are now the old people in line at Costco, like nudging and fighting each other and pointing to the little kids and like getting misty eyed because it has gone so crazy.
00:58:52
Speaker
quickly so all of that pain all those things it is so beautiful because you get these children out of it and so we are pleading with you to also just stop and be present in the moment and enjoy those babies and enjoy that transformation that you're going through
00:59:10
Speaker
Yeah, there is still so much beauty and goodness even when things are difficult, right? And that is a lesson in and of itself too, but nowhere is it more clearly made than in motherhood and in forming a family and growing and all the growing pains that come with
Celebrating Mothers' Role in Society
00:59:29
Speaker
it.
00:59:29
Speaker
is this idea of so much joy to be found in the children, so much refinement, so much growing together, getting better, shared memories.
00:59:45
Speaker
You're in the process of creating that kintsugi vase that is your family. It's taking the individual pieces of the people that's making it up and forming something so incredibly beautiful into a whole new product.
01:00:07
Speaker
You're right, just to enjoy the moments and the processes for what they are and not be so scared by the daunting moments of difficulty that are inevitable in the process too. And so as we're wrapping things up as well and talking about the enjoyment that can be found in motherhood,
01:00:25
Speaker
We have to remember too, that in us learning all these things and growing and transitioning into the motherhood, we also become a gift. We become a gift to our children, we become a gift to our spouses and to our family, but even beyond that. And there's a great quote, something Pope Francis said, addressed it to mothers, where he says, quote,
01:00:51
Speaker
A society without mothers would be a dehumanized society, for mothers are always, even in the worst moments, witnesses of tenderness, dedication, and moral strength. Dearest mothers, thank you, thank you for what you are in your family and for what you give to the church and to the worlds."
01:01:18
Speaker
We were blown away this week by the responses and wisdom many of you shared with us on Lindsay's Instagram account when she asked you for advice you would give to new mothers. Here are some of our listeners now with the insights they would share with new moms.
01:01:35
Speaker
Hello, my name is Taryn and the advice I would give to moms is to make your relationship with your husband your number one priority. Yes, even before your children. It seems counterintuitive, but this is so good for them. When you and your spouse put each other first, it creates a loving and stable foundation from which you can love and serve your children together and build a home in which your children can feel secure and drive.
01:02:02
Speaker
Hi, I'm Jen, and I'm from Strongsville, Ohio, and my favorite advice is remaining calm is the most powerful skill you can cultivate as a mom. Hello, I'm Victoria, and this is my favorite advice. Motherhood takes time to figure out, and the hard times are just part of that process.
01:02:24
Speaker
Hi, I'm Carol, and my advice for new moms would be that motherhood is more sacrificial than you could ever imagine. So lean on Jesus through it. Hello, I'm Ava, and this is my favorite advice. Listen to your own instincts. You know deep down what your child needs.
01:02:46
Speaker
Hi, I'm Mikayla and my favorite advice for new moms is that the cliche of the days are long but the years are short has never been as true as it has been since becoming a mom. My advice is that everything passes both good and bad.
01:03:01
Speaker
Hi, my name is Mary Beth and this is my advice. There is no perfection in motherhood. A huge thank you to Taryn, Jen, Carol, Victoria, Mikayla and Eva and Mary Beth for hopping on the podcast with us this week. Your advice is so appreciated.
Pop Culture Interests of Hosts
01:03:23
Speaker
Okay, it's time for our What We're Loving This Week segment of the show. So Lindsay, what have you been loving this week?
01:03:30
Speaker
Well, I actually changed my what I'm loving this week last minute, but I still have to give a shout out to it. So I hope this is okay, Michelle. It's going to be another two for one because I still need to hold place for the former thing, but then be excited about the new thing. Okay? Okay.
01:03:46
Speaker
So I've already told you Michelle about how Amazon Prime just added all the James Bond films, right? So I've started them and I'm working my way through them and it is so pleasurable Obviously there are some issues with the older films. They're not
01:04:01
Speaker
They're not made in 2023, so keep that in mind as you're watching them, but I am happy to work my way through them. I also want to just share, because I'm on this Bond mode right now, that there's an amazing documentary on Prime called The Sounds of 007, and it's all about the music from the films, the famous theme music, and then each Bond film has a song that's written for it. It's, I guess, a pretty big deal in the musical industry to
01:04:23
Speaker
get the chance to perform a Bond song. Um, so that was really neat too. Okay. But that was, that's my James Bond thing. The thing I'm really enjoying this week and the thing that has just been a balm for my hectic soul is a YouTube channel called Glen and Friends Cooking.
01:04:39
Speaker
Um, I came across this channel several months ago and I instantly loved it. I sensed that Glenn is a fellow Canadian and then I found out that he does live in Toronto and it's always nice to see local items, right? Like him getting a bag of milk and putting it into the milk bag holder.
01:04:56
Speaker
milk container and the no name products. And, um, and the thing is, and I think I've told you about this before Michelle, but you've got to watch it because he has the most incredible kitchen set that he built in his garage at the back of his house. It's, it's completely professional. Like you think you're watching a Netflix show and he knows his stuff. Glenn has done media spots and advertising for food companies for years.
01:05:21
Speaker
And what I really like though is Glenn nerds out on things to the same level that I nerd out on things.
01:05:28
Speaker
And it's very rare that you meet somebody who'll be like yes, but in the 1500s They called it this and in the 1600s and he just he goes like deep into all of these aspects And then it's really precious because his wife Julie comes home from work and she does not know what he's cooked that day So she comes in she's like hello friends and he's like hi Julie and then she gets to taste what he's cooked and he tells her the whole story and then he does a little happy dance if it tastes good and they make cocktails and anyways, it's so
01:05:57
Speaker
It's like edutainment at its finest, so I highly recommend Glenn and Friends.
01:06:04
Speaker
Oh my goodness, that sounds like a riot. It is. Oh, I love it. Okay, I'm going to check it out. I love Canadian, like finding us in the wild. That's what it feels like. And then I always feel like I'm never that patriotic and then I see another Canadian in the wild like that. I'm like, oh, Canada. Like I just, yeah, I get all a flutter. Oh my gosh, that's so good. Yeah. So what have you been loving this week?
01:06:34
Speaker
Well, I'm so glad you asked because I also have a YouTube channel to recommend. And it also has to do with Canada. What? I know. Look at us. Who would have thought two Canadian podcasters would
01:06:50
Speaker
have Canadian content on their show. Wow. So this channel is called Canadiana. I did tell you about it a couple of weeks ago, but I had only just discovered it then. And I came across this channel just while looking. I think I actually typed in short documentaries into YouTube so I can watch it while doing a quick job or something.
01:07:15
Speaker
And so the best description for this channel and what they're trying to do, I just pulled it straight from their website because it's so succinct. But they say, quote, Canadiana is a documentary series on the hunt for the most incredible, overlooked or unusual tales from Canadian history with award-winning editing, playful animations and scenic footage.
01:07:39
Speaker
Filmmakers Kyle Kuko, Ashley Brooke, and Ashley Brooke follow host Adam Bunch as he travels across the country exploring the stories that have made Canada the unique place it is today.
01:07:53
Speaker
From rebels and freedom fighters to pirates and assassins, we uncover the fascinating and unexpected. This isn't the history you learned in school." End quote. I know. And I was like, what? Canada? Tell me more. So the first episode I watched was called
01:08:13
Speaker
the Toronto forest that brought down Napoleon. They keep trying to make me watch that. That comes up in my suggestion. Yes. Okay. Okay. Now you're from you. I have to. Yes. Well, yeah, I thought that was really interesting because we study Napoleon like from a French history perspective, but I never thought there was a Canadian connection there. Um, and then the other episodes I really liked since discovering the channel was, um, how the cold war started in Ottawa.
01:08:43
Speaker
and the assassination of Darcy McGee. Is that another one? I know, I went down that rabbit hole one time. Oh, well, there you go. You can go down the rabbit hole again with Canadiana. So it is a award-winning web series. They have great quality of production. And it really follows the same storytelling feel of that History This Week podcast that I mentioned a few weeks ago.
01:09:11
Speaker
And I think just overall, I just really, really appreciate that they're emphasizing how interesting, involved, and exciting Canadian history really is. It has really been a stage and a player in so many world events. And it's been fun digging deeper into some of our country's exciting but lesser known history. So if you also want to deep dive all things Canada, then you'll definitely want to check out Canadiana on YouTube.
01:09:42
Speaker
Okay, that's going to do it for us this week. If you want to get in touch and chat with us about our topic today, you can find us on our website, www.themodernlady1950.wordpress.com, or leave us a comment on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube at The Modern Lady Podcast. I'm Michelle Sacks, and you can find me on Instagram at mmsacks. And I'm Lindsay Murray, and you can find me on Instagram at Lindsay Hellmaker.
01:10:09
Speaker
Thank you so much for listening, have a great week, and we will see you next time.