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#19: Why the Word? 5 Ministry Vital Signs pt.2
21 Plays9 hours ago
In the second episode in the five-part Vital Signs series of the NextGen Matters podcast, Rich sits down with Kyle Hoffsmith—family ministry pastor and fellow podcast host to tackle one of the most urgent questions facing NextGen leaders today: Is the Word of God truly at the center of our ministries?
From the opening minutes, Rich and Kyle go straight at the real issues: Are we teaching Scripture clearly and completely? Are students engaging the Bible on their own? Do they actually know what it says, and is it shaping their lives? As Kyle puts it, “Whatever we put at the center of our student ministry will drive what happens in that student ministry.”
This conversation is a reality check for leaders who want more than hype, entertainment, or a “TED Talk” approach to teaching. Kyle shares how he builds a culture where the Word drives everything—leader training, discipleship, teaching rhythms, even how success is measured.
If you’re hungry to see students develop a real appetite for Scripture—students who bring their Bibles, ask deeper questions, and actually want to grow—this episode will fire you up and refocus your mission.
Resources Mentioned
Next Gen Matters – https://www.nextgenmatters.com/
The Word in Youth Ministry Podcast - https://cpyu.org/
Youth Ministry in the Vine (Book & Podcast) - https://matthiasmedia.com/
Email for Rich Brown (NGM): rich@nextgenmatters.com
Email for Kyle Hoffsmith (Old North Church, Canfield) khoffsmith@oldnorthchurch.org
Subscribe for NGM Thursday Tools email https://www.nextgenmatters.com/ contact us
Watch this episode on YouTube
Timestamps
00:00 - The big questions: Are we truly teaching and living out the Word?
01:00 - Introducing Kyle Hoffsmith and the “Five Vital Signs” series
04:30 - Why the Word must be the centerpiece of student ministry
07:00 - Letting Scripture shape the entire ministry—not just lessons
10:00 - The danger of shallow teaching and losing older students
13:00 - Building a culture of the Word over time
22:00 - Practical ways to disciple students beyond large gatherings
32:00 - The role of the Holy Spirit in transformation
35:00 - Vision casting: What a “Grand Slam” Word-centered ministry looks like
41:00 - Three key calls to action for ministry leaders
Recommended
Transcript
Engagement with Scripture in NextGen Ministries
00:00:01
NextGen Matters
Hey, my friend, when you look at the current situation right now within NextGen Ministries, especially as it relates to the topic of Scripture and the teaching of the Word of God, i mean, what are you seeing?
00:00:14
NextGen Matters
Are we teaching it accurately, completely, clearly, and practically? Next question, are are students engaging in the Word? Not just with us, but on their own, like in their bedroom, in their lives,
00:00:29
NextGen Matters
Another question, do students actually know what the Word says? Do they know what the Word teaches? And can they articulate it to someone else? And is the Word of God making a significant difference in their life?
00:00:46
NextGen Matters
Well, I'm so glad you've joined us in this episode as today's conversation asks the simple question, the Why?
Introduction to Next Gen Matters Podcast
00:00:56
NextGen Matters
Well, hey friend, welcome to the Next Gen Matters podcast, a show for ministry leaders seeking to move beyond overwhelm and move into leading with clarity, confidence, and consistency.
00:01:07
NextGen Matters
Today, I've got the privilege of having a friend of mine join us in this very needed conversation. Kyle Hoffsmith is the pastor of family ministry at the Old North Church in Canfield, Ohio. Welcome, Kyle. Welcome, Kyle.
00:01:21
Kyle
Hey, Rich. So good to be with you. Yep. Was happy to be with you in person last summer from the time of this recording down in beautiful Lynchburg, Virginia. But now coming to you from my office, which as we're recording this, there was some snow last week.
00:01:37
Kyle
Now, yesterday we we had some warm weather and we're we're happy to be here. here So my church is about an hour west of Pittsburgh and an hour south of Cleveland, right outside of Youngstown.
00:01:49
NextGen Matters
And you grew up there, correct? In that area?
00:01:50
Kyle
Well, I've been here for almost 10 years. I grew up a few hours east of here, in right outside of Hershey, Pennsylvania.
00:01:56
NextGen Matters
Okay.
00:01:58
Kyle
Grew up going to church in Hershey and went to college in Lancaster at Millersville University. Got an international business degree and then went to seminary at Southern Seminary in Kentucky.
00:02:09
NextGen Matters
Nice.
00:02:09
Kyle
So,
00:02:10
NextGen Matters
Very cool. Very cool.
Series on Five Vital Signs of Ministry
00:02:12
NextGen Matters
Well, in this episode today, this is the second episode of our five vital signs, I'll say series that we're doing based on those five W's I laid out in episode 17. Last episode, we had the emphasis on worship.
00:02:27
NextGen Matters
<unk> Today's the word. And then the next three are going to be welcome, witness and work. So when I'm thinking through these five
00:02:31
Kyle
Hmm.
00:02:34
NextGen Matters
essential areas, essential markers or vital signs. I see we need to be on like a one to five scale. We're hitting five on all all five of these, right? I also know that there's certain passions in ministry. Just we're so we do some of these well, right? And I thought for the word, one name came to my mind and that's Kyle Hoffsmith. Kyle's been involved in ministry for well over 10 to 15 right?
00:02:59
Kyle
Yeah, I've been here for 10, almost 10, and I was somewhere else for three. So, yeah, approaching 15.
00:03:04
NextGen Matters
Yeah.
00:03:04
Kyle
Yep.
00:03:04
NextGen Matters
Yeah.
00:03:04
Kyle
Yep.
00:03:05
NextGen Matters
so you've been teaching it. Plus you've been leading with Dr. Walt Mueller, a podcast called.
00:03:11
Kyle
Yep. The Word and Youth Ministry. We have over 100 conversations there. You can find that at cpyu.org or wherever you listen to podcasts and really just talking to people. Dr. Walt Mueller and I had this conversation.
00:03:23
Kyle
He said, let's launch a podcast that yeah equips people to use
Kyle Hoffsmith's Podcast Ventures
00:03:27
Kyle
the word. And we were thinking of some fancy names.
00:03:28
NextGen Matters
Right.
00:03:30
Kyle
And then finally he was like, how about let's call it the Word and Youth Ministry? I'm like, bingo, that's it. Let's do it. So
00:03:36
NextGen Matters
I remember when that got introduced when you guys were on his podcast, Youth Culture Matters, talking about the birth of this.
00:03:40
Kyle
Yeah. Yeah.
00:03:43
NextGen Matters
And you also are starting another podcast.
00:03:43
Kyle
yeah
00:03:47
Kyle
Yeah, from the time of this recording, coming out here in a little bit is a book I wrote with Matthias Media called Youth Ministry in the Vine. It's kind of a contextual book based off of another book they published called Trellis in the Vine and got a podcast launching that the listeners can find anywhere, YouTube, Spotify, Facebook, Instagram, and Apple podcast called Youth Ministry in the Vine.
00:04:11
NextGen Matters
Yep. And I'm following you on Instagram and I've subscribed to getting that when it comes out.
00:04:16
Kyle
Let's get it.
00:04:17
NextGen Matters
Let's go, man. All right. So let's talk the word, y'all. Here we are.
00:04:20
Kyle
Yes.
00:04:20
NextGen Matters
Got some questions for Kyle. We're going engage in this conversation. Kyle, you are the one who is the spiritual leader of the ministry. And also, I would think with the one who's typically more of that teaching leader as well.
00:04:32
Kyle
Yep.
00:04:33
NextGen Matters
So you're not only leading it, let's say, administratively and and in a shepherding role. You're also the one facilitating the biblical communication.
00:04:41
Kyle
Correct.
00:04:42
NextGen Matters
So with that as backdrop, here's the question.
Centrality of the Word in Student Ministry
00:04:45
NextGen Matters
What role does the word of God play in your lessons that you give within your meeting times?
00:04:53
Kyle
Yeah, that's a great question. And I think it goes for me back to before I wanted to be a youth pastor. you know, i I recently told this story and someone was like, you were just joking to make people laugh. And I'm like, no. Where when I was in college, I had people pray for me that God would lead me on what to do next in life. But I tell them I don't want to be a youth pastor.
00:05:17
NextGen Matters
Right.
00:05:18
Kyle
In that time, I remember hearing a quote and I was thinking of just going and leading a church, not youth ministry. And I heard a quote by someone that said, the pulpit drives the church.
00:05:25
NextGen Matters
right
00:05:30
Kyle
And I remember thinking about that and thinking about how what is taught in the church literally drives the church. And i I think, you know, That contextually just parallels great with student ministry, that whatever we put at the center of our student ministry will drive what happens in that student ministry.
00:05:47
NextGen Matters
Right.
00:05:51
Kyle
And so there's lots of options. We can make fun and games, the center, we can make discussion and relationships, the center and not. none of these things are sinful. Hopefully we wouldn't put something sinful at the center of our youth ministry.
00:06:04
Kyle
Right. But for me, i have found that if God has placed me as the spiritual leader of a youth ministry, I want to put in the center.
00:06:14
Kyle
The one thing that we know is guaranteed to last forever. And that's the word of God.
00:06:21
NextGen Matters
Mm-hmm.
00:06:21
Kyle
And so I want to make sure that the word of God is is not at the side or is not over in the rear view mirror.
00:06:21
NextGen Matters
Mm-hmm.
00:06:29
Kyle
No, I want the word of God to be what is driving our student ministry. Yes.
00:06:35
NextGen Matters
Something I said on the episode 17, which was the the quick flyover of all five, when I hit this one, it's like, yeah, the word has to be the centerpiece.
00:06:46
Kyle
Yes.
00:06:46
NextGen Matters
And I know you believe that. And yeah I see your videos you put up on Instagram and and Facebook of, you know, clips of your ministry. And I know for you, that's why I chose you. is It is truly the centerpiece.
00:06:59
NextGen Matters
Let's take this to a higher 30,000 foot view.
00:07:01
Kyle
Yep. Yep.
00:07:02
NextGen Matters
What role does the word play in the life of your ministry? I'm not even talking about your Wednesday nights or Sunday nights, whenever you guys have your meeting times, but just overall, all encompassing to the student ministry, what role what role does the word play in the life of the ministry?
00:07:21
Kyle
Yeah, i I think early on in my days in student ministry, I was tempted, and I think we all are, to create a student ministry that kind of has its own mission statement and has its own vision statement and and all of this. and And none of that's necessarily wrong.
00:07:38
Kyle
But what I learned through the years is that if the Word of God is what it says it is, if if it's going to endure forever, if it if it literally is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path, what i learned is rather than coming up with some type of fancy statement to describe the student ministry, I was going to make our student ministry about what our church as a whole is about.
00:07:39
NextGen Matters
Mm-hmm.
00:08:04
Kyle
And then what I was going to do is I was going to make sure that the word is is literally what we're putting our time to. So for me, our church as a whole has three core values.
00:08:15
Kyle
The first one is biblical preaching and teaching. The second one is personal and intentional discipleship. And the third one is healthy children and healthy families. And so for me, in order to to reach all of these core values, the word has to be the center.
00:08:34
Kyle
And and to to answer your question, Rich, how I get there is I need to make sure that the goal of my student ministry is actually a biblical goal.
00:08:45
Kyle
And so for me, that's where we've made the goal of our student ministry. Colossians 1, Paul says that he wants to present people mature in Christ.
00:08:56
Kyle
What in the world does it look like to present a mature teenager to Jesus? I don't know, but I know that it would be more than just winning a Bible memorization contest or it'd be more than just being able to, when Pastor Kyle says, open up to Ecclesiastes, being able to find Ecclesiastes. I'm not looking to grow in metrics that lead to hearts that could be Pharisaical.
00:09:26
Kyle
No, I want to teach the word of God in a way where it's guiding all that we're doing in our student ministry. So I'm using the Bible to guide how I train my leaders. I'm using the Bible to guide how I measure success.
00:09:39
Kyle
I'm using the Bible to guide. I'm not going to teach something that's unbiblical. And so all of that kind of leads together to say, yeah, the Bible guides everything we do.
00:09:49
Kyle
Yeah.
00:09:51
NextGen Matters
You just quoted my life verse. I peeked up here because I have it on my wall. Yes. Colossians 1, 28 and 29. Mm-hmm.
00:09:59
Kyle
Well, Rich, and I just like to add, it's hard because, It takes time to build a culture where the word is centered in our youth ministries.
00:10:12
Kyle
You know, I joke around about the first my first night as a youth pastor. I had this ambition. I was going to do what everyone else failed at doing. And, you know, I was prideful. and and so And I didn't realize that the students in my youth ministry weren't ready yet for me to drop this heavy message, right?
00:10:30
Kyle
It takes time to build this culture. But once you build it, there there's nothing better.
00:10:32
NextGen Matters
a hi
00:10:37
NextGen Matters
Well, that's what Paul talks about with the various, let's say, spiritual levels.
00:10:41
Kyle
yes
00:10:42
NextGen Matters
You know, in the ring of Hebrews, the same thing going to chapter five. You know, he's frustrated. He's like, don't you know, by now you should be teachers of the principles, the oracles of God. But I got to still treat you as babies.
00:10:55
NextGen Matters
Paul, of course, says that to the Corinthian church. So yeah, you have to pick them up where they're at, but you don't leave it at the lower shelf. That's what frustrates me in youth ministry.
00:11:01
Kyle
yes
00:11:04
NextGen Matters
I think, and this is not a sidetrack, this actually does deal with us.
00:11:04
Kyle
right
00:11:07
NextGen Matters
I think we lose a lot of our upper level students, our high school, sophomores, juniors, seniors, because we're still treating them as younger ones and we're not going deeper with them.
00:11:20
NextGen Matters
We leave it at the cookies at the low shelf. Have you seen that?
00:11:35
Kyle
We shouldn't be surprised that when they're no longer teenagers, that that they're walking away.
00:11:40
NextGen Matters
Yeah. Yeah. So in other words, the scriptures are being taught. And then also they're they're guiding everything you do. Even with like what God put in my heart back six years ago with Next Gen Matters is I i have seen a lot of youth ministry training, but I don't hear a lot of the Bible.
00:12:02
Kyle
Yes.
00:12:04
NextGen Matters
I've got literally hundreds of books in youth ministry from the 80s when I started. And i'm I'm a book nerd. So even the ideas books in the 60s, even I got behind me, 1930s books on church youth work.
00:12:14
Kyle
Yep. Yep.
00:12:19
NextGen Matters
Literally, I had two copies.
00:12:19
Kyle
Oh, wow.
00:12:20
NextGen Matters
I gave one to Walt back a few years ago.
00:12:22
Kyle
Wow.
00:12:23
NextGen Matters
1932. Dude, crazy, right? And yeah, and that book, the Bible, that book contains scriptural principles to everything we would do. But it's like we almost got silent with that.
00:12:37
NextGen Matters
I'm not saying everyone, but I'm saying when God put this thing next to matters in my heart, I'm like, I want to make sure what I'm sharing, training others, whatever, it's not TED Talks and maybe one verse, that it really is extracted from scripture.
00:12:48
Kyle
Yep.
00:12:51
NextGen Matters
We just squeeze a lemonade out of the lemons, if you will, of scripture. Yeah.
00:12:55
Kyle
Well, that's the thing about the Bible. If the Bible really is the living and active word of God, we we need to, we need to, to be intentional how we teach it, but we don't need to be clever because God is going to use his word, how he desires to use it.
00:13:08
NextGen Matters
right
00:13:12
Kyle
Our goal should be to deliver it in a contextual way that the teenagers can, can grasp it. And, uh, That they go away not thinking, wow, Pastor Kyle just gave a great message, but they go away thinking, wow, this is what the Bible says. Now I should make my life match it accordingly.
00:13:32
NextGen Matters
Absolutely, absolutely. So now the next question would be, What are you doing in that lead position, that that steward God's called to over that that that ministry?
00:13:39
Kyle
Yep.
00:13:44
NextGen Matters
What are you doing to create a culture of the
Teaching Methods for Scriptural Engagement
00:13:47
NextGen Matters
word into your ministry?
00:13:48
Kyle
Yep. Yeah, so I think that it can be helpful for youth workers to to think through all of the avenues where teaching takes place. For us, our our main avenues are our Sunday school time and our midweek youth group.
00:14:03
Kyle
and And then I got a few others that we can talk about later if we want to.
00:14:03
NextGen Matters
Mm-hmm.
00:14:06
Kyle
But but the point being, we have these two main avenues
00:14:07
NextGen Matters
Yeah. Okay.
00:14:10
Kyle
And so for me, I want to build a culture where students are both learning what the Bible says, but also learning how to think for themselves.
00:14:21
Kyle
So because I have two weekly avenues, and then hopefully many of these students are also going to church and hearing a 40 minute sermon or a 45 minute sermon, I want to take these two avenues. And one of them, I want to work through books of the Bible, or I want to work through large chunks of scripture.
00:14:39
Kyle
And then the other one, I'm going to do more of a topical study where we talk through different topics as students and helping them see these topics through a biblical perspective.
00:14:49
NextGen Matters
Good, good.
00:14:49
Kyle
So so what i'm what I'm trying to say here is there's this balance. If we're going to create a culture, it's not like we're just taking the Bible and nailing them on the head. I'm creating different ways. So for for me, over the past few weeks, I did a series going through Psalm 23.
00:15:05
Kyle
we We just went one you know one one or two verses at a time going through where they're learning this is how a psalm fits together.
00:15:10
NextGen Matters
Right.
00:15:13
Kyle
This is the progression of it. This is context is important. But then on Sunday mornings this fall, I did a series on the mind where we talked about this is what the mind is.
00:15:23
Kyle
This is how we need to take our thoughts captive. This is how, you know, and so both are helpful. But I heard someone say about church one time, if you if you plan on staying at a church long enough, you don't need to cram everything in one sermon.
00:15:37
NextGen Matters
right
00:15:37
Kyle
Similarly, in youth ministry, if there's all these avenues throughout us throughout a week and throughout a year, you don't have to say everything in one talk.
00:15:45
Kyle
You just got to keep giving them doses of the word of God every time.
00:15:48
NextGen Matters
Yeah. Years ago. Right. Right. Years. I'm talking, dude, decades ago. I had a pastor buddy tell me, a lead pastor buddy tell me that it was an older man in the church walked up to him when he did that.
00:16:02
NextGen Matters
Tried to cram it all in. Right. He goes, he goes, he hit called the gentleman by name.
00:16:04
Kyle
Yep.
00:16:07
NextGen Matters
He goes, you're going to be here a long time. In other words, we're going to hear you again and again and again.
00:16:12
Kyle
Take your time, dude.
00:16:14
NextGen Matters
And I also think on the short run, it's like, that's why you have series is dude.
00:16:18
Kyle
Yes.
00:16:18
NextGen Matters
I'm thinking so many of these like heavier, you know, you think of like, to me, this gets in the weeds a little bit, a series really is one, one lesson just in three or four different segments.
00:16:22
Kyle
Yeah.
00:16:28
Kyle
Yep.
00:16:30
NextGen Matters
or Or I used when I taught this in at Liberty, it was like on youth communications, I would say it's like columns to a building, you know, those three or four pillars, you know,
00:16:37
Kyle
Oh, that's so good.
00:16:40
NextGen Matters
is really each each lesson is a pillar to the overarching, pun intended, the overarching theme of the series. So you're you're like Paul, I'd say it's Romans, come on y'all, he's making his case. Boom, then boom, then boom. He's laying it out. So I love that. That's why I love series especially. And I like what you did too with Psalm 23 because you were teaching the passage, but you were also teaching your students how to learn to discern when they study the passage.
00:17:10
NextGen Matters
how to interpret scripture. So that was that was a great double-edged sword there. You're teaching the word, but you're also teaching them how to feed themselves.
00:17:22
Kyle
Yeah, I'm not convinced that all youth workers or even many youth workers think that you can teach expository messages where you're just working through books of the Bible, where the main point of the message is actually just the main point of what the Bible teaches.
00:17:38
Kyle
But I found as my conviction has grown in that students aren't second class citizens in the family of God. Students need the word just as much as adults need the word, maybe even more.
00:17:46
NextGen Matters
Mm-hmm.
00:17:48
NextGen Matters
Mm-hmm.
00:18:03
Kyle
That we need to give them the the unfiltered word of God. And if God's word literally is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path, we need to teach them how to walk with the word of God.
00:18:18
NextGen Matters
I love it. I love it. So we're creating a culture of the word in our ministries. One thing I think of too, Kyle, is my passion as a leader, my passion for scripture
00:18:32
Kyle
Yes.
00:18:35
NextGen Matters
needs to be not pharisaically displayed, But i you guys are watching this. I keep chugging my coffee. It is in the morning. Come on, y'all. Of course, for me, I drink one cup of coffee throughout the entire day. Just keep refilling it, right?
00:18:49
NextGen Matters
But I'm saying I use the coffee cup as an example. If it's full and someone bumps into me, coffee spills out. When someone bumps into me, the word should fill out because I'm so much into the word.
00:18:57
Kyle
yes
00:18:59
NextGen Matters
And, you know, I just remember so many times... When, you know, in the middle of a lesson, whether it's teaching in the university or or being a student pastor, you know, I'll take it as a God thing.
00:19:10
NextGen Matters
You know, I'll just, man, just this morning in my quiet time and it just spits out.
00:19:14
Kyle
Yes.
00:19:15
NextGen Matters
I do not do that to show off.
00:19:17
Kyle
right
00:19:17
NextGen Matters
I'm in honest to the Lord Jesus. I am not doing that to show off. It just comes out. I love the word. And it hit me like, wow, this resonates with what I'm talking about right now.
00:19:29
NextGen Matters
My birthday was a few weeks ago. My six-year-old grandson, my daughter did a little video the kids sent to us, right? Thank you for iPhones and FaceTime so i can see the grands every give a few days.
00:19:40
Kyle
yes
00:19:45
NextGen Matters
But it was so random. It was nighttime and my daughter, my beautiful daughter, Jenna, was, the kids were in bed and they're the lights are kind of out and they were singing to me and all this. And he goes, I know G-Pop. That's my cool name. Okay, guys. she He goes, i know G-Pop. He loves to read the Bible.
00:20:03
Kyle
Wow.
00:20:04
NextGen Matters
Dude, I've never told him that. Maybe I have. maybe i mean, I've never said, I read the Bible. I mean, maybe I have. But then he said, Mommy, do you read the Bible?
00:20:14
NextGen Matters
she goes, yes, I do.
00:20:15
Kyle
Yep.
00:20:15
NextGen Matters
And it's so cool. He's like, and he said, he reads it. every He said, he's he's read it all through. And he goes, and he's so funny. I said, i forget how he said it, but how he positioned it was like, he finished it.
00:20:30
NextGen Matters
He goes, I think he finishes it a lot or something like that. My point is, what a gift to give to your grands, right?
00:20:38
Kyle
Hmm.
00:20:40
NextGen Matters
And the same thing, the best gift I think we can give to our students is I love, yes, Jesus, absolutely. I'm not putting the word over Jesus. That can be borderline idolatry to worship the Bible, but forget the the God of the Bible.
00:20:56
NextGen Matters
You know, that's Phariseeism. But that that the best gift I can give is I love the word. The word saturates my life. When you see me, you see the word pouring through me. And out of that posture, i now...
00:21:13
NextGen Matters
create a culture of the word.
00:21:15
Kyle
Yeah, Rich, and it's interesting that as I've studied other youth pastors who I'm friends with, many many youth pastors just replicate in their youth ministry what their church was like when they were students, if they were involved in youth ministry.
Vision for Word-Centered Youth Ministry
00:21:32
NextGen Matters
Mm-hmm.
00:21:32
Kyle
And that's been one thing that's over the past probably seven or eight years has driven us to make sure our our youth ministry is saturated in the word because I want them, if they become like youth pastors or even volunteers in a church or this church, I want them to think it's normal for the word of God to be taught to students.
00:21:54
Kyle
And so how do we do that?
00:21:54
NextGen Matters
Yeah. Right, right.
00:21:55
Kyle
You know, like you're talking about your grandson, some things are caught and some things are taught. I think similarly, like that's what I wanna do with my students so that then when they go to college and they're looking for a church, that they're looking for a church that, you know, I had a kid one time who say who came back from college and he's like, well, the church I was looking at, they would read the Bible, but then just the sermon would be about whatever he wanted to talk about.
00:21:59
NextGen Matters
right right
00:22:18
Kyle
And he he crossed that one off the list. You know, I wasn't going to go to that church. And I'm like, yes, well, I don't like maybe he picked that up from something I taught or maybe he just realized this is what normal is.
00:22:29
NextGen Matters
man
00:22:30
Kyle
And and i I'm glad for the churches that are are centering all of their ministry on the word of God, but I also want to encourage those who are in a church where maybe the word of God isn't center.
00:22:31
NextGen Matters
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
00:22:43
Kyle
That doesn't mean the word of God needs to be on the sidelines of your student ministry.
00:22:50
NextGen Matters
It's the, it's the rudder. It guides everything we do.
00:22:53
Kyle
Yep, that's right.
00:22:54
NextGen Matters
So another question would be, okay, I'm i'm a baseball guy. Lived in Seattle for how many years, right? So I got the Mariners, rockin' the Mariners. I'm a Yankees fan, but my 2A in Seattle, like in football, same thing.
00:23:05
NextGen Matters
I got your 2A team.
00:23:07
Kyle
Oh, mercy, mercy, mercy. happy i have mine I'm a Philadelphia Phillies fan, but the the Guardians, also known as the Indians,
00:23:09
NextGen Matters
Anyway, anyway. good i know easy
00:23:15
NextGen Matters
Right. Well, you know what I'm talking about because your home team –
00:23:18
Kyle
Yes, they're in the American League. So I'm still a Phillies fan by by blood, but I'm a Guardians fan by location.
00:23:26
NextGen Matters
Yes. Yes. I get it. New York growing up, Seattle 10 years. Anyway. Okay. So here's the term, Grand Slam.
00:23:35
Kyle
Yep.
00:23:36
NextGen Matters
I want you to think Grand Salami. I think in ministry, describe for me what you would love to see. This is very aspirational.
00:23:47
Kyle
Yep.
00:23:47
NextGen Matters
Well, you would love to see it's a grand slam within your ministry as it relates to the word. If you were to sit back, your hands are off the steering wheel. Thank you, Elon. Okay. It's about the steering wheel right now.
00:24:00
NextGen Matters
Where would you love to see God move in your ministry aspirationally as relates to the word? And you sit back and go, you got big old smile on your face, that goofy smile, like, this is good.
00:24:12
Kyle
Yeah, I think for me, this is where people, you know, go astray in the sense that they think that the word of God is separate from everything else.
00:24:26
Kyle
But for me, a grand slam would be for God to grow an appetite in my students, right? and in my leaders where they value what the word of God says more than what anyone else says.
00:24:40
Kyle
And part of that can be taught by me, right?
00:24:41
NextGen Matters
right
00:24:43
Kyle
Like we as youth pastors and youth leaders, we can teach that. But part of that needs to come through me praying to the God of the universe that he would give a desire and an appetite in these in the hearts and minds of these students that they would want the word of God.
00:25:00
Kyle
So a grand slam to me would be where students come to me and what they're requesting is that they would understand the word of God better. And so this is where, again, Rich, and you've seen this a lot longer than I have, but I've seen it enough where we we can't measure based on the metrics of just how many people are in the room.
00:25:22
Kyle
we need to measure on the metrics of creating mature disciples of Jesus. So for me, if I'm sitting back, if I'm, I drive an older Honda civic that I'm hoping to run, I'm i'm hoping to run over 200,000 miles. So I'm, my hands are on the steering wheel.
00:25:40
Kyle
And if they're not my backseat driver, my six year old daughter is telling, she's starting to critique my driving. And so yeah, so
00:25:47
NextGen Matters
Sorry, I went Tim Hawkins in my brain just now.
00:25:49
Kyle
Yes, yes, yes.
00:25:49
NextGen Matters
I have a little helper.
00:25:51
Kyle
Yes, I have a little helper. So my hands are still on the steering wheel. But but if I'm looking for a Grand Slam, my Grand Slam would be that God would do something in the hearts of my students where they value the word of God above all.
00:25:56
NextGen Matters
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:00
NextGen Matters
Hmm.
00:26:02
Kyle
And that's the type of thing that when it happens, it's obvious.
00:26:03
NextGen Matters
Hmm.
00:26:07
Kyle
Can i just share a quick story?
00:26:07
NextGen Matters
Hmm. Please, please do.
00:26:09
Kyle
Last week, I'm teaching. And a student came up to me afterwards and I wasn't sure if she was a Christian or not based on just her past. And I just wasn't sure.
00:26:19
NextGen Matters
Yeah.
00:26:21
Kyle
And it became very obvious when she came up to me and asked me a question that related to what I taught and what she was what she was learning on her own. And I was like, you know what?
00:26:32
Kyle
God is changing this person. And he's not doing it through me being cool because I'm not. He's not doing it through me being strategic because I can be as strategic as I want. He's doing it through his spirit, applying the word of God to her heart.
00:26:47
Kyle
And so that's where I would just encourage, you know, if someone's listening to this thinking, how do I build a culture of the word being the center in my youth ministry? The answer is one talk at a time or sermon or message, whatever you call it, or small group discussion. You you know, you you build a culture by one block at a time.
00:27:08
Kyle
And that's where I think it's easy to sometimes look at me like, oh, why don't I have this?
00:27:08
NextGen Matters
Yeah.
00:27:13
Kyle
And it's like, well, I need to start somewhere.
00:27:16
NextGen Matters
Yeah. I love it. I love it. Structurally, know what you've you've been able to build is not only is your your large gathering time twice, you said twice a week, right?
00:27:27
Kyle
Yep.
00:27:30
Kyle
Yep. Sunday mornings and Wednesday nights currently. Yep.
00:27:32
NextGen Matters
But you also have multiple discipleship groups.
00:27:36
Kyle
Yes.
00:27:38
NextGen Matters
And I know from conversations that you also have kind of a, I think it's like a dude book club where you actually go through theology books with, with older high school students.
00:27:45
Kyle
Yeah.
00:27:49
Kyle
Yep. That's right. Yeah. So I, I just decided back, you know, i think we could divide our our ministry, not BC and AD, but pre-COVID and post-COVID.
00:28:02
NextGen Matters
Yeah.
00:28:03
Kyle
And I decided when when covid when the COVID shutdown happened, I was really discouraged. And I was thinking of stopping being a youth pastor. And I had a really formative conversation with my boss.
00:28:12
NextGen Matters
Mm.
00:28:15
Kyle
And I decided during that time that if I was going to stay in youth ministry, that I was going to give it all I had. And that I was going to, I was not going to look at this as a second class ministry, but I was going to look at this as a ministry within the church. And I was going to give it as if I was leading the church, but God didn't call me to lead the church. God called me to lead the youth ministry. And so basically I look for any avenue that I could be with students and teach them the word of God.
00:28:41
Kyle
Sometimes where it's one person standing and students sitting in rows, but other times you're sitting in a coffee shop or sitting yeah all over.
00:28:47
NextGen Matters
In circles, yep.
00:28:47
Kyle
So three things that we do. And some of them are seasonal. One, we do something called Dig Deeper Groups, groups where students are going through theology books with leaders.
00:28:58
Kyle
And that's that's one way we do it. We just finished. I went through two books written by Mitchell Chase. One is an overview of the Old Testament. One's an overview of the New Testament.
00:29:09
Kyle
That just finished from the time of this recording yesterday. We do school Bible studies.
00:29:11
NextGen Matters
Wow.
00:29:13
Kyle
So we we have a bunch of schools, but five that we're able to do.
00:29:14
NextGen Matters
Yes, you do.
00:29:20
Kyle
So Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, we have Bible studies at coffee shops nearby schools or else in the school if that's possible. And that's where the word of God is just, and we pray specifically for each school that we're at or near. And then also, yeah, like you said, i just...
00:29:39
Kyle
try to find students who have the desire to read theology books.
00:29:44
NextGen Matters
Yeah.
00:29:45
Kyle
It's where the Dig Deeper group that I talked about got birthed out of.
00:29:47
NextGen Matters
one
00:29:47
Kyle
But yeah, one student when he was a freshman, we started and it took different times.
00:29:47
NextGen Matters
Okay.
00:29:52
Kyle
Different times was me and him, different times it was more.
00:29:54
NextGen Matters
that
00:29:55
Kyle
But yeah, we read, i think, 15 books throughout his time in high school. Again, okay, not just cramming information in his mind.
00:30:00
NextGen Matters
Yeah.
00:30:03
NextGen Matters
Right.
00:30:03
Kyle
That's important. But I want him to know reading literature is normal for Christians.
00:30:05
NextGen Matters
Right.
00:30:10
NextGen Matters
It used to be.
00:30:12
Kyle
Yeah, and I want it to be again.
00:30:15
NextGen Matters
So how I kind of define in my simple mind discipleship is in three words, all based on Matthew 28, the United Great Commission, 19 to 20.
Discipleship through the Word
00:30:27
NextGen Matters
Starts with information where Jesus says, go there for make disciples, baptizing.
00:30:29
Kyle
Yep.
00:30:32
Kyle
Yep.
00:30:33
NextGen Matters
He says, teaching them everything I taught you.
00:30:35
Kyle
Yep.
00:30:37
NextGen Matters
So starts information, but it must be turned into application.
00:30:39
Kyle
yep
00:30:42
Kyle
That's good.
00:30:43
NextGen Matters
teaching them to obey, not just teach them, teach them to obey.
00:30:47
Kyle
Yep.
00:30:49
NextGen Matters
then the third is transformation. Where now you have a six-year-old daughter, I hope at this point you don't have to remind her every day to brush your teeth.
00:30:58
Kyle
Yeah, right, right, right.
00:30:59
NextGen Matters
Now, if it's a son, that's a different conversation. But you get to the point as a parent or as a ministry leader to realize when it becomes habitual in your life, okay, now it's caught.
00:31:10
Kyle
Yep. Yep.
00:31:12
NextGen Matters
So I wanna see what the word can do where it's, yes, I'm teaching and training them, right? But it becomes to the point where now it has transformed their life. Something you said, I looked down on my phone and pulled up this verse. It's Luke 24.
00:31:29
Kyle
Yeah.
00:31:29
NextGen Matters
It's the road to Emmaus story. Right after Jesus's conversation with those two gentlemen, he then recollects himself with the the rest of the apostles. And this is to believers, right?
00:31:41
NextGen Matters
This is to believers. He says says, Luke writes, then he, referring to the Lord Jesus, then he opened their minds so they could understand the scriptures. And he told them, this is what was written.
00:31:52
NextGen Matters
And he talks about what you call the we call the Old Testament, you know, the law and the prophets, right?
00:31:55
Kyle
yeah
00:31:57
NextGen Matters
All screaming into the life of this coming Messiah. In other words, we realize what Paul says about the unbelievers are blind,
00:32:08
Kyle
Yep.
00:32:08
NextGen Matters
and the spirit of God must lift the scales, must be able to help them see, and he knows that from experience, Acts 9. But also, is even as believers, so even something I would say is encouragement, when I'm teaching, Lord, open the eyes, not just of the lost, but even the saved.
00:32:25
NextGen Matters
Because end of the day, you and know and I know, we are not the teacher. That's John 15, 16, 17, the spirit of God, end of the day, is the teacher.
00:32:36
NextGen Matters
He will guide them in all truth. So that's the thing is, you know, as we do our best to study and prep and do everything we can, and yes, have creative teaching methods. Absolutely.
00:32:46
NextGen Matters
Christ used stories. Christ used parables. Christ was the most creative teacher out there for real.
00:32:51
Kyle
Right.
00:32:53
NextGen Matters
And yet even he knew unless the spirit of God touched the human heart, it's just going to be seed falling on hard ground. Yeah.
00:33:02
Kyle
Yeah, Rich, and and let me just say i i think that I think that people who hear about the Word of God being taught and the Word of God being the center of a youth ministry sometimes can get skeptical because it can be like, oh that you know all you're doing is teaching.
00:33:04
NextGen Matters
That's just something I think powerful, you know, just want throw that in there.
00:33:20
Kyle
like like This is not an excuse to lazy ministry.
Effort and Creativity in Teaching the Word
00:33:24
Kyle
It takes effort to come up with illustrations that help students understand the word.
00:33:28
NextGen Matters
Right.
00:33:28
Kyle
It takes effort to both know the kid and know the word so that when we're teaching, we're not just teaching, you know, I think about,
00:33:34
NextGen Matters
Mm-hmm.
00:33:39
Kyle
Like I want to teach in a way that actually hits my students who go to the schools. I'm i'm sitting in my office on on my wall over here. I have all pictures of almost all the schools that the kids go to.
00:33:49
Kyle
Like I want to teach in a way that they're being equipped to go into these buildings.
00:33:49
NextGen Matters
Nice.
00:33:54
Kyle
That's different than if I go speak at your church's youth group. I don't know those kids.
00:33:57
NextGen Matters
Right.
00:33:58
Kyle
Right.
00:33:58
NextGen Matters
Right, right.
00:33:58
Kyle
And I love to go speak places. I love to go do that.
00:34:01
NextGen Matters
Mm-hmm.
00:34:02
Kyle
But but it does take effort to do this. But the effort is worth it, because when you can actually shepherd kids and you can actually walk with them through the ups and downs of life and what's driving that is the unchanging word of God at the end of their life, i don't want them to think, oh, Pastor Kyle, he was a good youth pastor.
00:34:05
NextGen Matters
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:34:21
Kyle
But I want them to think, oh my goodness, if they lived to 75 for the last six decades of their life, they were in the word of God most days.
00:34:33
Kyle
If that can start when they're in my youth ministry, they can forget Pastor Kyle. I just don't want them to forget the word of God.
00:34:37
NextGen Matters
on Yep. Because, because it's not where they are right now.
00:34:43
Kyle
Yep.
00:34:45
Kyle
That's right.
00:34:46
NextGen Matters
Where are they going to be in 10 years?
00:34:47
Kyle
That's right. That's right.
00:34:49
NextGen Matters
I'm sincerely meaning that. Where are they going to be in 10 years?
00:34:51
Kyle
That's right.
00:34:53
NextGen Matters
So begin to wrap this up, bring this plane down as it descends. So, so why does the word matter? I got some thoughts here and to hear from Kyle at the back end. Leader hears the truth we cannot cannot escape.
00:35:08
NextGen Matters
A ministry will never rise above its relationship with the word of God higher than your relationship with the word of God.
The Word as the Ministry's Operating System
00:35:19
NextGen Matters
You know, your programs may attract. Personalities, we may be magnetic. And relationships will engage. but only, as we've been saying, only the Bible will transform lives.
00:35:34
Kyle
Amen.
00:35:34
NextGen Matters
So if we do want spiritually fit ministries, we must build cultures where scripture is not, you ready, a software program, but it truly is the OS, the operating system of his ministry.
00:35:48
Kyle
amen
00:35:49
NextGen Matters
You know, it's like where students just don't hear the word. Yeah, they hear it, but they hunger for it and they're changed by it. So the real test It's not just what the students are hearing from us, but what do they really believe and do they demonstrate it in their own lives five and 10 years down the road, especially when they're moved away from our influence and in high school ministry, moved away from their parents' influence.
00:36:20
NextGen Matters
And that's also assuming that parents love Jesus and teach the word. And 96% of students do not come from Christian homes. So we have a huge obligation to be shepherding, like Paul says in 1 Timothy 4, the Word of God. So i want you all to dream with me.
00:36:35
NextGen Matters
Dream this with me. have dream.
00:36:37
Kyle
Thank you.
00:36:38
NextGen Matters
Here it is. Students, this is your youth room, right? This is you walk into a room, you student ministry center, you walk into, you get ready to do your midweek or your Sunday morning. Just dream with me.
00:36:51
NextGen Matters
You walk in and students, they have their Bibles with them. I mean, their actual Bibles with them. Their Bibles are there and they open it with eagerness as they genuinely expect to hear from God.
00:37:07
NextGen Matters
Students who can articulate truth with clarity and conviction not echoing what they just heard from you or i but owning what they've discovered from the word of God.
00:37:17
Kyle
Yep.
00:37:22
NextGen Matters
Dream with me. Students who live, I'm sorry, students whose lives I mean, are showing visible fruit, which can only be explained by the transforming power of the word of God.
00:37:37
NextGen Matters
And that's why the word matters. And that's why we must teach the word. Here's my four words. I used it in the classroom for years. I'm going to say it again. Accurately, completely, clearly, and practically.
00:37:52
Kyle
Yeah.
00:37:53
NextGen Matters
And this is why spiritually fit ministries bring their students to the word. Kyle, I've asked you to come up with three calls to action. What do you got?
00:38:01
Kyle
Yeah. I think the call to action number one is that, we need to know the word ourselves if we're going to teach the word to others. And I, I think there is some,
00:38:14
Kyle
difference in opinion on whether, you know, some people are like, Oh, you should have a a totally different devotional life than what you're teaching. And, and other people are like, Oh, if you're teaching the word of God, then, then that, that quote unquote counts.
00:38:29
Kyle
I think we need to drop the Pharisee and we just need to say, be in the word of God and teach the word of God. so and So the call to action number one would be to be in the word of God ourselves. Call of action number two would be when we're teaching the word of God, don't forget the youth leaders who are sitting there.
00:38:46
Kyle
The primary audience is the students, but don't forget that the word of God that you're teaching the students is also changing the leaders.
00:38:53
NextGen Matters
It's good.
00:38:53
Kyle
And we know that how God wired us educationally Psalm 139, we are knit together in our mother's womb, is sometimes we think about things differently if we're teaching rather than if we're just receiving.
00:39:07
Kyle
So in my setup, I'm teaching in a way where then the leaders are going to go in a small group with the students and lead a discussion based on what I teach.
00:39:14
NextGen Matters
Yes.
00:39:15
NextGen Matters
And that's true for most. Yep.
00:39:16
Kyle
now
00:39:17
Kyle
They're, they are, the leaders are listening as receivers, but they're also thinking how they're going to teach it to the students. And I think God, i actually, I don't think I know.
00:39:27
Kyle
i had as a message that was meant for the students. And I got a text message from a leader, how God used it to change that person's life.
00:39:36
NextGen Matters
Nice.
00:39:36
Kyle
And that person wasn't, that leader was not the main audience.
00:39:37
NextGen Matters
Nice.
00:39:40
Kyle
Right. So number one, make sure the word is changing you.
00:39:41
NextGen Matters
Great.
00:39:43
Kyle
Number two, don't forget that the word also changes the youth leaders that are there.
00:39:48
NextGen Matters
Mm-hmm.
00:39:48
Kyle
And then number three, I touched on this earlier, but when measuring success, don't measure bases the world measures because it's possible for a student to come to every single youth gathering and walk away.
00:40:02
NextGen Matters
Mm-hm.
00:40:03
Kyle
And it's also possible for students who who in the time of high school or middle school are you know not very into it that God
00:40:03
NextGen Matters
Mm-hm. Mm-hm.
00:40:12
Kyle
God says he will complete the mission he has for his word. And I have a student right now who serves as one of our leaders. And when he was in youth ministry, he, I think could give a rip what I was saying yet. Now he's following the Lord. He's leading one of these dig deeper groups. He's certain. and It's like, I, I,
00:40:33
NextGen Matters
cool.
00:40:34
Kyle
I find success too often in the metrics of the world. So those are my three takeaways.
00:40:38
NextGen Matters
Yeah.
00:40:39
Kyle
Make sure that the word is changing you.
00:40:39
NextGen Matters
Yeah.
00:40:41
Kyle
Make sure you're thinking of the adult leaders and don't count kids out. Maybe maybe a a simple way I could say point three. Don't count kids out who look like they're not interested in the word. God might just be growing them in a way where later on in life, they're going to be growing by the word.
00:40:51
NextGen Matters
Right.
00:40:56
NextGen Matters
Yeah, I'm sure every every listener, to think about it, you could trace back. There's one or two students you've had that you thought were totally checked out.
00:41:03
Kyle
Yep.
00:41:06
Kyle
Yep.
00:41:06
NextGen Matters
Then you find a later from them, i was actually listening to you.
00:41:08
Kyle
Unbelievable.
00:41:12
NextGen Matters
Praise God.
00:41:13
Kyle
Yeah, incredible.
00:41:14
NextGen Matters
all right. Hey, y'all, thanks for listening to this episode. And thank you for joining us here on the Next Gen Matters podcast. If today is truly ministered to you, Let me know. I'd love to hear. I love hearing feedback. richandnextgenmatters.com is my email address. i've put in the show notes. I'll have Kyle's email in there. Also, I have links to Kyle's two different websites he's referred to.
00:41:37
NextGen Matters
Leave a comment and please share this with someone else that could really minister to this. If you're kind of that point person of a ministry, I would encourage you to share this with your leadership team. with your volunteers as well.
00:41:48
NextGen Matters
And if you've not yet subscribed to the podcast, please do. And also, if you aren't yet receiving our weekly email called Thursday Tools, do so. I send it out every Thursday morning.
00:42:00
NextGen Matters
And it's not just it's it's not just a marketing email. It's not clickbait. It's honestly just how can I help provide a resource and some kind of an encouragement word for you.
00:42:10
Kyle
And Rich, can I make a point of that real quick for the listeners?
00:42:13
NextGen Matters
Do.
00:42:14
Kyle
So I'm a youth pastor and if you didn't get that so far, I'm a youth pastor and my inbox gets inundated with stuff from all different organizations, everything.
00:42:28
Kyle
But I believe that Rich is positioned in a place and he's not paying me and paying me to say this. I'm, you know, is positioned in through his experience but also it's rare for someone now to be leading an organization like this but still volunteer in youth ministry and so i would just encourage those i would just encourage those who get these emails in their inbox to read them because rich isn't talking just as a commentator on the sideline he has boy i mean I saw it firsthand.
00:42:49
NextGen Matters
I'm the old guy. Yeah.
00:42:53
NextGen Matters
yeah
00:43:01
Kyle
I went down there to Lynchburg. He spoke to my students and he's like, Oh, do you want to just have this? We ended up not coming to his house because there were too many of them, but he was like, Hey, I just had, uh, the, the small group over for a cereal, cereal bar and all that.
00:43:13
Kyle
And I'm like, this dude is so uncommon because he's not just commentating from the sidelines. He's actually ministering to teenagers today. So read, read the email that comes out.
00:43:23
Kyle
What every Thursday, rich.
00:43:25
NextGen Matters
Yeah. And what I've done with Walt's, with mine, with many ministry and business podcast, I actually create a folder so automatically goes there so doesn't get lost.
00:43:34
Kyle
Yes. That's awesome.
00:43:37
NextGen Matters
And then I have it like with our friend Mike McGarry. Everything from Youth Passion Theologian goes right to that because his is such gold.
00:43:45
Kyle
Yeah, that's right.
00:43:45
NextGen Matters
I don't want to drop any of those. So anyway, all right, cool.
00:43:47
Kyle
That's right. Hey, thank you, Rich.
00:43:49
NextGen Matters
You're welcome. Thank you, buddy. My friend, listen, like I said, if this has been an encouragement to you, please let us know. Your leadership matters because your ministry matters because the gospel matters.
00:44:01
NextGen Matters
Have a great day and a fantastic week doing God's word God's way. Take care.