Transcript
NextGen Matters: Hey, my friend, when you look at the current situation right now within NextGen Ministries, especially as it relates to the topic of Scripture and the teaching of the Word of God, i mean, what are you seeing?
NextGen Matters: Are we teaching it accurately, completely, clearly, and practically? Next question, are are students engaging in the Word? Not just with us, but on their own, like in their bedroom, in their lives,
NextGen Matters: Another question, do students actually know what the Word says? Do they know what the Word teaches? And can they articulate it to someone else? And is the Word of God making a significant difference in their life?
NextGen Matters: Well, I'm so glad you've joined us in this episode as today's conversation asks the simple question, the Why? Well, hey friend, welcome to the Next Gen Matters podcast, a show for ministry leaders seeking to move beyond overwhelm and move into leading with clarity, confidence, and consistency.
NextGen Matters: Today, I've got the privilege of having a friend of mine join us in this very needed conversation. Kyle Hoffsmith is the pastor of family ministry at the Old North Church in Canfield, Ohio. Welcome, Kyle. Welcome, Kyle.
Kyle: Hey, Rich. So good to be with you. Yep. Was happy to be with you in person last summer from the time of this recording down in beautiful Lynchburg, Virginia. But now coming to you from my office, which as we're recording this, there was some snow last week.
Kyle: Now, yesterday we we had some warm weather and we're we're happy to be here. here So my church is about an hour west of Pittsburgh and an hour south of Cleveland, right outside of Youngstown.
NextGen Matters: And you grew up there, correct? In that area?
Kyle: Well, I've been here for almost 10 years. I grew up a few hours east of here, in right outside of Hershey, Pennsylvania.
NextGen Matters: Okay.
Kyle: Grew up going to church in Hershey and went to college in Lancaster at Millersville University. Got an international business degree and then went to seminary at Southern Seminary in Kentucky.
NextGen Matters: Nice.
Kyle: So,
NextGen Matters: Very cool. Very cool. Well, in this episode today, this is the second episode of our five vital signs, I'll say series that we're doing based on those five W's I laid out in episode 17. Last episode, we had the emphasis on worship.
NextGen Matters: <unk> Today's the word. And then the next three are going to be welcome, witness and work. So when I'm thinking through these five
Kyle: Hmm.
NextGen Matters: essential areas, essential markers or vital signs. I see we need to be on like a one to five scale. We're hitting five on all all five of these, right? I also know that there's certain passions in ministry. Just we're so we do some of these well, right? And I thought for the word, one name came to my mind and that's Kyle Hoffsmith. Kyle's been involved in ministry for well over 10 to 15 right?
Kyle: Yeah, I've been here for 10, almost 10, and I was somewhere else for three. So, yeah, approaching 15.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Kyle: Yep.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Kyle: Yep.
NextGen Matters: so you've been teaching it. Plus you've been leading with Dr. Walt Mueller, a podcast called.
Kyle: Yep. The Word and Youth Ministry. We have over 100 conversations there. You can find that at cpyu.org or wherever you listen to podcasts and really just talking to people. Dr. Walt Mueller and I had this conversation.
Kyle: He said, let's launch a podcast that yeah equips people to use the word. And we were thinking of some fancy names.
NextGen Matters: Right.
Kyle: And then finally he was like, how about let's call it the Word and Youth Ministry? I'm like, bingo, that's it. Let's do it. So
NextGen Matters: I remember when that got introduced when you guys were on his podcast, Youth Culture Matters, talking about the birth of this.
Kyle: Yeah. Yeah.
NextGen Matters: And you also are starting another podcast.
Kyle: yeah
Kyle: Yeah, from the time of this recording, coming out here in a little bit is a book I wrote with Matthias Media called Youth Ministry in the Vine. It's kind of a contextual book based off of another book they published called Trellis in the Vine and got a podcast launching that the listeners can find anywhere, YouTube, Spotify, Facebook, Instagram, and Apple podcast called Youth Ministry in the Vine.
NextGen Matters: Yep. And I'm following you on Instagram and I've subscribed to getting that when it comes out.
Kyle: Let's get it.
NextGen Matters: Let's go, man. All right. So let's talk the word, y'all. Here we are.
Kyle: Yes.
NextGen Matters: Got some questions for Kyle. We're going engage in this conversation. Kyle, you are the one who is the spiritual leader of the ministry. And also, I would think with the one who's typically more of that teaching leader as well.
Kyle: Yep.
NextGen Matters: So you're not only leading it, let's say, administratively and and in a shepherding role. You're also the one facilitating the biblical communication.
Kyle: Correct.
NextGen Matters: So with that as backdrop, here's the question. What role does the word of God play in your lessons that you give within your meeting times?
Kyle: Yeah, that's a great question. And I think it goes for me back to before I wanted to be a youth pastor. you know, i I recently told this story and someone was like, you were just joking to make people laugh. And I'm like, no. Where when I was in college, I had people pray for me that God would lead me on what to do next in life. But I tell them I don't want to be a youth pastor.
NextGen Matters: Right.
Kyle: In that time, I remember hearing a quote and I was thinking of just going and leading a church, not youth ministry. And I heard a quote by someone that said, the pulpit drives the church.
NextGen Matters: right
Kyle: And I remember thinking about that and thinking about how what is taught in the church literally drives the church. And i I think, you know, That contextually just parallels great with student ministry, that whatever we put at the center of our student ministry will drive what happens in that student ministry.
NextGen Matters: Right.
Kyle: And so there's lots of options. We can make fun and games, the center, we can make discussion and relationships, the center and not. none of these things are sinful. Hopefully we wouldn't put something sinful at the center of our youth ministry.
Kyle: Right. But for me, i have found that if God has placed me as the spiritual leader of a youth ministry, I want to put in the center.
Kyle: The one thing that we know is guaranteed to last forever. And that's the word of God.
NextGen Matters: Mm-hmm.
Kyle: And so I want to make sure that the word of God is is not at the side or is not over in the rear view mirror.
NextGen Matters: Mm-hmm.
Kyle: No, I want the word of God to be what is driving our student ministry. Yes.
NextGen Matters: Something I said on the episode 17, which was the the quick flyover of all five, when I hit this one, it's like, yeah, the word has to be the centerpiece.
Kyle: Yes.
NextGen Matters: And I know you believe that. And yeah I see your videos you put up on Instagram and and Facebook of, you know, clips of your ministry. And I know for you, that's why I chose you. is It is truly the centerpiece.
NextGen Matters: Let's take this to a higher 30,000 foot view.
Kyle: Yep. Yep.
NextGen Matters: What role does the word play in the life of your ministry? I'm not even talking about your Wednesday nights or Sunday nights, whenever you guys have your meeting times, but just overall, all encompassing to the student ministry, what role what role does the word play in the life of the ministry?
Kyle: Yeah, i I think early on in my days in student ministry, I was tempted, and I think we all are, to create a student ministry that kind of has its own mission statement and has its own vision statement and and all of this. and And none of that's necessarily wrong.
Kyle: But what I learned through the years is that if the Word of God is what it says it is, if if it's going to endure forever, if it if it literally is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path, what i learned is rather than coming up with some type of fancy statement to describe the student ministry, I was going to make our student ministry about what our church as a whole is about.
NextGen Matters: Mm-hmm.
Kyle: And then what I was going to do is I was going to make sure that the word is is literally what we're putting our time to. So for me, our church as a whole has three core values.
Kyle: The first one is biblical preaching and teaching. The second one is personal and intentional discipleship. And the third one is healthy children and healthy families. And so for me, in order to to reach all of these core values, the word has to be the center.
Kyle: And and to to answer your question, Rich, how I get there is I need to make sure that the goal of my student ministry is actually a biblical goal.
Kyle: And so for me, that's where we've made the goal of our student ministry. Colossians 1, Paul says that he wants to present people mature in Christ.
Kyle: What in the world does it look like to present a mature teenager to Jesus? I don't know, but I know that it would be more than just winning a Bible memorization contest or it'd be more than just being able to, when Pastor Kyle says, open up to Ecclesiastes, being able to find Ecclesiastes. I'm not looking to grow in metrics that lead to hearts that could be Pharisaical.
Kyle: No, I want to teach the word of God in a way where it's guiding all that we're doing in our student ministry. So I'm using the Bible to guide how I train my leaders. I'm using the Bible to guide how I measure success.
Kyle: I'm using the Bible to guide. I'm not going to teach something that's unbiblical. And so all of that kind of leads together to say, yeah, the Bible guides everything we do.
Kyle: Yeah.
NextGen Matters: You just quoted my life verse. I peeked up here because I have it on my wall. Yes. Colossians 1, 28 and 29. Mm-hmm.
Kyle: Well, Rich, and I just like to add, it's hard because, It takes time to build a culture where the word is centered in our youth ministries.
Kyle: You know, I joke around about the first my first night as a youth pastor. I had this ambition. I was going to do what everyone else failed at doing. And, you know, I was prideful. and and so And I didn't realize that the students in my youth ministry weren't ready yet for me to drop this heavy message, right?
Kyle: It takes time to build this culture. But once you build it, there there's nothing better.
NextGen Matters: a hi
NextGen Matters: Well, that's what Paul talks about with the various, let's say, spiritual levels.
Kyle: yes
NextGen Matters: You know, in the ring of Hebrews, the same thing going to chapter five. You know, he's frustrated. He's like, don't you know, by now you should be teachers of the principles, the oracles of God. But I got to still treat you as babies.
NextGen Matters: Paul, of course, says that to the Corinthian church. So yeah, you have to pick them up where they're at, but you don't leave it at the lower shelf. That's what frustrates me in youth ministry.
Kyle: yes
NextGen Matters: I think, and this is not a sidetrack, this actually does deal with us.
Kyle: right
NextGen Matters: I think we lose a lot of our upper level students, our high school, sophomores, juniors, seniors, because we're still treating them as younger ones and we're not going deeper with them.
NextGen Matters: We leave it at the cookies at the low shelf. Have you seen that?
Kyle: We shouldn't be surprised that when they're no longer teenagers, that that they're walking away.
NextGen Matters: Yeah. Yeah. So in other words, the scriptures are being taught. And then also they're they're guiding everything you do. Even with like what God put in my heart back six years ago with Next Gen Matters is I i have seen a lot of youth ministry training, but I don't hear a lot of the Bible.
Kyle: Yes.
NextGen Matters: I've got literally hundreds of books in youth ministry from the 80s when I started. And i'm I'm a book nerd. So even the ideas books in the 60s, even I got behind me, 1930s books on church youth work.
Kyle: Yep. Yep.
NextGen Matters: Literally, I had two copies.
Kyle: Oh, wow.
NextGen Matters: I gave one to Walt back a few years ago.
Kyle: Wow.
NextGen Matters: 1932. Dude, crazy, right? And yeah, and that book, the Bible, that book contains scriptural principles to everything we would do. But it's like we almost got silent with that.
NextGen Matters: I'm not saying everyone, but I'm saying when God put this thing next to matters in my heart, I'm like, I want to make sure what I'm sharing, training others, whatever, it's not TED Talks and maybe one verse, that it really is extracted from scripture.
Kyle: Yep.
NextGen Matters: We just squeeze a lemonade out of the lemons, if you will, of scripture. Yeah.
Kyle: Well, that's the thing about the Bible. If the Bible really is the living and active word of God, we we need to, we need to, to be intentional how we teach it, but we don't need to be clever because God is going to use his word, how he desires to use it.
NextGen Matters: right
Kyle: Our goal should be to deliver it in a contextual way that the teenagers can, can grasp it. And, uh, That they go away not thinking, wow, Pastor Kyle just gave a great message, but they go away thinking, wow, this is what the Bible says. Now I should make my life match it accordingly.
NextGen Matters: Absolutely, absolutely. So now the next question would be, What are you doing in that lead position, that that steward God's called to over that that that ministry?
Kyle: Yep.
NextGen Matters: What are you doing to create a culture of the word into your ministry?
Kyle: Yep. Yeah, so I think that it can be helpful for youth workers to to think through all of the avenues where teaching takes place. For us, our our main avenues are our Sunday school time and our midweek youth group.
Kyle: and And then I got a few others that we can talk about later if we want to.
NextGen Matters: Mm-hmm.
Kyle: But but the point being, we have these two main avenues
NextGen Matters: Yeah. Okay.
Kyle: And so for me, I want to build a culture where students are both learning what the Bible says, but also learning how to think for themselves.
Kyle: So because I have two weekly avenues, and then hopefully many of these students are also going to church and hearing a 40 minute sermon or a 45 minute sermon, I want to take these two avenues. And one of them, I want to work through books of the Bible, or I want to work through large chunks of scripture.
Kyle: And then the other one, I'm going to do more of a topical study where we talk through different topics as students and helping them see these topics through a biblical perspective.
NextGen Matters: Good, good.
Kyle: So so what i'm what I'm trying to say here is there's this balance. If we're going to create a culture, it's not like we're just taking the Bible and nailing them on the head. I'm creating different ways. So for for me, over the past few weeks, I did a series going through Psalm 23.
Kyle: we We just went one you know one one or two verses at a time going through where they're learning this is how a psalm fits together.
NextGen Matters: Right.
Kyle: This is the progression of it. This is context is important. But then on Sunday mornings this fall, I did a series on the mind where we talked about this is what the mind is.
Kyle: This is how we need to take our thoughts captive. This is how, you know, and so both are helpful. But I heard someone say about church one time, if you if you plan on staying at a church long enough, you don't need to cram everything in one sermon.
Kyle: Similarly, in youth ministry, if there's all these avenues throughout us throughout a week and throughout a year, you don't have to say everything in one talk.
NextGen Matters: right
Kyle: You just got to keep giving them doses of the word of God every time.
NextGen Matters: Yeah. Years ago. Right. Right. Years. I'm talking, dude, decades ago. I had a pastor buddy tell me, a lead pastor buddy tell me that it was an older man in the church walked up to him when he did that.
NextGen Matters: Tried to cram it all in. Right. He goes, he goes, he hit called the gentleman by name.
Kyle: Yep.
NextGen Matters: He goes, you're going to be here a long time. In other words, we're going to hear you again and again and again.
Kyle: Take your time, dude.
NextGen Matters: And I also think on the short run, it's like, that's why you have series is dude.
Kyle: Yes.
NextGen Matters: I'm thinking so many of these like heavier, you know, you think of like, to me, this gets in the weeds a little bit, a series really is one, one lesson just in three or four different segments.
Kyle: Yeah.
Kyle: Yep.
NextGen Matters: or Or I used when I taught this in at Liberty, it was like on youth communications, I would say it's like columns to a building, you know, those three or four pillars, you know,
Kyle: Oh, that's so good.
NextGen Matters: is really each each lesson is a pillar to the overarching, pun intended, the overarching theme of the series. So you're you're like Paul, I'd say it's Romans, come on y'all, he's making his case. Boom, then boom, then boom. He's laying it out. So I love that. That's why I love series especially. And I like what you did too with Psalm 23 because you were teaching the passage, but you were also teaching your students how to learn to discern when they study the passage.
NextGen Matters: how to interpret scripture. So that was that was a great double-edged sword there. You're teaching the word, but you're also teaching them how to feed themselves.
Kyle: Yeah, I'm not convinced that all youth workers or even many youth workers think that you can teach expository messages where you're just working through books of the Bible, where the main point of the message is actually just the main point of what the Bible teaches.
Kyle: But I found as my conviction has grown in that students aren't second class citizens in the family of God. Students need the word just as much as adults need the word, maybe even more.
NextGen Matters: Mm-hmm.
NextGen Matters: Mm-hmm.
Kyle: That we need to give them the the unfiltered word of God. And if God's word literally is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path, we need to teach them how to walk with the word of God.
NextGen Matters: I love it. I love it. So we're creating a culture of the word in our ministries. One thing I think of too, Kyle, is my passion as a leader, my passion for scripture
Kyle: Yes.
NextGen Matters: needs to be not pharisaically displayed, But i you guys are watching this. I keep chugging my coffee. It is in the morning. Come on, y'all. Of course, for me, I drink one cup of coffee throughout the entire day. Just keep refilling it, right?
NextGen Matters: But I'm saying I use the coffee cup as an example. If it's full and someone bumps into me, coffee spills out. When someone bumps into me, the word should fill out because I'm so much into the word.
Kyle: yes
NextGen Matters: And, you know, I just remember so many times... When, you know, in the middle of a lesson, whether it's teaching in the university or or being a student pastor, you know, I'll take it as a God thing.
NextGen Matters: You know, I'll just, man, just this morning in my quiet time and it just spits out.
Kyle: Yes.
NextGen Matters: I do not do that to show off.
Kyle: right
NextGen Matters: I'm in honest to the Lord Jesus. I am not doing that to show off. It just comes out. I love the word. And it hit me like, wow, this resonates with what I'm talking about right now.
NextGen Matters: My birthday was a few weeks ago. My six-year-old grandson, my daughter did a little video the kids sent to us, right? Thank you for iPhones and FaceTime so i can see the grands every give a few days.
Kyle: yes
NextGen Matters: But it was so random. It was nighttime and my daughter, my beautiful daughter, Jenna, was, the kids were in bed and they're the lights are kind of out and they were singing to me and all this. And he goes, I know G-Pop. That's my cool name. Okay, guys. she He goes, i know G-Pop. He loves to read the Bible.
Kyle: Wow.
NextGen Matters: Dude, I've never told him that. Maybe I have. maybe i mean, I've never said, I read the Bible. I mean, maybe I have. But then he said, Mommy, do you read the Bible?
NextGen Matters: she goes, yes, I do.
Kyle: Yep.
NextGen Matters: And it's so cool. He's like, and he said, he reads it. every He said, he's he's read it all through. And he goes, and he's so funny. I said, i forget how he said it, but how he positioned it was like, he finished it.
NextGen Matters: He goes, I think he finishes it a lot or something like that. My point is, what a gift to give to your grands, right?
Kyle: Hmm.
NextGen Matters: And the same thing, the best gift I think we can give to our students is I love, yes, Jesus, absolutely. I'm not putting the word over Jesus. That can be borderline idolatry to worship the Bible, but forget the the God of the Bible.
NextGen Matters: You know, that's Phariseeism. But that that the best gift I can give is I love the word. The word saturates my life. When you see me, you see the word pouring through me. And out of that posture, i now...
NextGen Matters: create a culture of the word.
Kyle: Yeah, Rich, and it's interesting that as I've studied other youth pastors who I'm friends with, many many youth pastors just replicate in their youth ministry what their church was like when they were students, if they were involved in youth ministry.
NextGen Matters: Mm-hmm.
Kyle: And that's been one thing that's over the past probably seven or eight years has driven us to make sure our our youth ministry is saturated in the word because I want them, if they become like youth pastors or even volunteers in a church or this church, I want them to think it's normal for the word of God to be taught to students.
Kyle: And so how do we do that?
NextGen Matters: Yeah. Right, right.
Kyle: You know, like you're talking about your grandson, some things are caught and some things are taught. I think similarly, like that's what I wanna do with my students so that then when they go to college and they're looking for a church, that they're looking for a church that, you know, I had a kid one time who say who came back from college and he's like, well, the church I was looking at, they would read the Bible, but then just the sermon would be about whatever he wanted to talk about.
NextGen Matters: right right
Kyle: And he he crossed that one off the list. You know, I wasn't going to go to that church. And I'm like, yes, well, I don't like maybe he picked that up from something I taught or maybe he just realized this is what normal is.
NextGen Matters: man
Kyle: And and i I'm glad for the churches that are are centering all of their ministry on the word of God, but I also want to encourage those who are in a church where maybe the word of God isn't center.
NextGen Matters: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
Kyle: That doesn't mean the word of God needs to be on the sidelines of your student ministry.
NextGen Matters: It's the, it's the rudder. It guides everything we do.
Kyle: Yep, that's right.
NextGen Matters: So another question would be, okay, I'm i'm a baseball guy. Lived in Seattle for how many years, right? So I got the Mariners, rockin' the Mariners. I'm a Yankees fan, but my 2A in Seattle, like in football, same thing.
NextGen Matters: I got your 2A team.
Kyle: Oh, mercy, mercy, mercy. happy i have mine I'm a Philadelphia Phillies fan, but the the Guardians, also known as the Indians,
NextGen Matters: Anyway, anyway. good i know easy
NextGen Matters: Right. Well, you know what I'm talking about because your home team –
Kyle: Yes, they're in the American League. So I'm still a Phillies fan by by blood, but I'm a Guardians fan by location.
NextGen Matters: Yes. Yes. I get it. New York growing up, Seattle 10 years. Anyway. Okay. So here's the term, Grand Slam.
Kyle: Yep.
NextGen Matters: I want you to think Grand Salami. I think in ministry, describe for me what you would love to see. This is very aspirational.
Kyle: Yep.
NextGen Matters: Well, you would love to see it's a grand slam within your ministry as it relates to the word. If you were to sit back, your hands are off the steering wheel. Thank you, Elon. Okay. It's about the steering wheel right now.
NextGen Matters: Where would you love to see God move in your ministry aspirationally as relates to the word? And you sit back and go, you got big old smile on your face, that goofy smile, like, this is good.
Kyle: Yeah, I think for me, this is where people, you know, go astray in the sense that they think that the word of God is separate from everything else.
Kyle: But for me, a grand slam would be for God to grow an appetite in my students, right? and in my leaders where they value what the word of God says more than what anyone else says.
Kyle: And part of that can be taught by me, right?
NextGen Matters: right
Kyle: Like we as youth pastors and youth leaders, we can teach that. But part of that needs to come through me praying to the God of the universe that he would give a desire and an appetite in these in the hearts and minds of these students that they would want the word of God.
Kyle: So a grand slam to me would be where students come to me and what they're requesting is that they would understand the word of God better. And so this is where, again, Rich, and you've seen this a lot longer than I have, but I've seen it enough where we we can't measure based on the metrics of just how many people are in the room.
Kyle: we need to measure on the metrics of creating mature disciples of Jesus. So for me, if I'm sitting back, if I'm, I drive an older Honda civic that I'm hoping to run, I'm i'm hoping to run over 200,000 miles. So I'm, my hands are on the steering wheel.
Kyle: And if they're not my backseat driver, my six year old daughter is telling, she's starting to critique my driving. And so yeah, so
NextGen Matters: Sorry, I went Tim Hawkins in my brain just now.
Kyle: Yes, yes, yes.
NextGen Matters: I have a little helper.
Kyle: Yes, I have a little helper. So my hands are still on the steering wheel. But but if I'm looking for a Grand Slam, my Grand Slam would be that God would do something in the hearts of my students where they value the word of God above all.
NextGen Matters: Yeah, yeah.
NextGen Matters: Hmm.
Kyle: And that's the type of thing that when it happens, it's obvious.
NextGen Matters: Hmm.
Kyle: Can i just share a quick story?
NextGen Matters: Hmm. Please, please do.
Kyle: Last week, I'm teaching. And a student came up to me afterwards and I wasn't sure if she was a Christian or not based on just her past. And I just wasn't sure.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Kyle: And it became very obvious when she came up to me and asked me a question that related to what I taught and what she was what she was learning on her own. And I was like, you know what?
Kyle: God is changing this person. And he's not doing it through me being cool because I'm not. He's not doing it through me being strategic because I can be as strategic as I want. He's doing it through his spirit, applying the word of God to her heart.
Kyle: And so that's where I would just encourage, you know, if someone's listening to this thinking, how do I build a culture of the word being the center in my youth ministry? The answer is one talk at a time or sermon or message, whatever you call it, or small group discussion. You you know, you you build a culture by one block at a time.
Kyle: And that's where I think it's easy to sometimes look at me like, oh, why don't I have this?
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Kyle: And it's like, well, I need to start somewhere.
NextGen Matters: Yeah. I love it. I love it. Structurally, know what you've you've been able to build is not only is your your large gathering time twice, you said twice a week, right?
Kyle: Yep.
Kyle: Yep. Sunday mornings and Wednesday nights currently. Yep.
NextGen Matters: But you also have multiple discipleship groups.
Kyle: Yes.
NextGen Matters: And I know from conversations that you also have kind of a, I think it's like a dude book club where you actually go through theology books with, with older high school students.
Kyle: Yeah.
Kyle: Yep. That's right. Yeah. So I, I just decided back, you know, i think we could divide our our ministry, not BC and AD, but pre-COVID and post-COVID.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Kyle: And I decided when when covid when the COVID shutdown happened, I was really discouraged. And I was thinking of stopping being a youth pastor. And I had a really formative conversation with my boss.
NextGen Matters: Mm.
Kyle: And I decided during that time that if I was going to stay in youth ministry, that I was going to give it all I had. And that I was going to, I was not going to look at this as a second class ministry, but I was going to look at this as a ministry within the church. And I was going to give it as if I was leading the church, but God didn't call me to lead the church. God called me to lead the youth ministry. And so basically I look for any avenue that I could be with students and teach them the word of God.
Kyle: Sometimes where it's one person standing and students sitting in rows, but other times you're sitting in a coffee shop or sitting yeah all over.
NextGen Matters: In circles, yep.
Kyle: So three things that we do. And some of them are seasonal. One, we do something called Dig Deeper Groups, groups where students are going through theology books with leaders.
Kyle: And that's that's one way we do it. We just finished. I went through two books written by Mitchell Chase. One is an overview of the Old Testament. One's an overview of the New Testament.
Kyle: That just finished from the time of this recording yesterday. We do school Bible studies.
NextGen Matters: Wow.
Kyle: So we we have a bunch of schools, but five that we're able to do.
NextGen Matters: Yes, you do.
Kyle: So Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, we have Bible studies at coffee shops nearby schools or else in the school if that's possible. And that's where the word of God is just, and we pray specifically for each school that we're at or near. And then also, yeah, like you said, i just...
Kyle: try to find students who have the desire to read theology books.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Kyle: It's where the Dig Deeper group that I talked about got birthed out of.
NextGen Matters: one
Kyle: But yeah, one student when he was a freshman, we started and it took different times.
NextGen Matters: Okay.
Kyle: Different times was me and him, different times it was more.
NextGen Matters: that
Kyle: But yeah, we read, i think, 15 books throughout his time in high school. Again, okay, not just cramming information in his mind.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
NextGen Matters: Right.
Kyle: That's important. But I want him to know reading literature is normal for Christians.
NextGen Matters: Right.
NextGen Matters: It used to be.
Kyle: Yeah, and I want it to be again.
NextGen Matters: So how I kind of define in my simple mind discipleship is in three words, all based on Matthew 28, the United Great Commission, 19 to 20.
NextGen Matters: Starts with information where Jesus says, go there for make disciples, baptizing.
Kyle: Yep.
Kyle: Yep.
NextGen Matters: He says, teaching them everything I taught you.
Kyle: Yep.
NextGen Matters: So starts information, but it must be turned into application.
Kyle: yep
Kyle: That's good.
NextGen Matters: teaching them to obey, not just teach them, teach them to obey.
Kyle: Yep.
NextGen Matters: then the third is transformation. Where now you have a six-year-old daughter, I hope at this point you don't have to remind her every day to brush your teeth.
Kyle: Yeah, right, right, right.
NextGen Matters: Now, if it's a son, that's a different conversation. But you get to the point as a parent or as a ministry leader to realize when it becomes habitual in your life, okay, now it's caught.
Kyle: Yep. Yep.
NextGen Matters: So I wanna see what the word can do where it's, yes, I'm teaching and training them, right? But it becomes to the point where now it has transformed their life. Something you said, I looked down on my phone and pulled up this verse. It's Luke 24.
Kyle: Yeah.
NextGen Matters: It's the road to Emmaus story. Right after Jesus's conversation with those two gentlemen, he then recollects himself with the the rest of the apostles. And this is to believers, right?
NextGen Matters: This is to believers. He says says, Luke writes, then he, referring to the Lord Jesus, then he opened their minds so they could understand the scriptures. And he told them, this is what was written.
NextGen Matters: And he talks about what you call the we call the Old Testament, you know, the law and the prophets, right?
Kyle: yeah
NextGen Matters: All screaming into the life of this coming Messiah. In other words, we realize what Paul says about the unbelievers are blind,
Kyle: Yep.
NextGen Matters: and the spirit of God must lift the scales, must be able to help them see, and he knows that from experience, Acts 9. But also, is even as believers, so even something I would say is encouragement, when I'm teaching, Lord, open the eyes, not just of the lost, but even the saved.
NextGen Matters: Because end of the day, you and know and I know, we are not the teacher. That's John 15, 16, 17, the spirit of God, end of the day, is the teacher.
NextGen Matters: He will guide them in all truth. So that's the thing is, you know, as we do our best to study and prep and do everything we can, and yes, have creative teaching methods. Absolutely.
NextGen Matters: Christ used stories. Christ used parables. Christ was the most creative teacher out there for real.
Kyle: Right.
NextGen Matters: And yet even he knew unless the spirit of God touched the human heart, it's just going to be seed falling on hard ground. Yeah.
Kyle: Yeah, Rich, and and let me just say i i think that I think that people who hear about the Word of God being taught and the Word of God being the center of a youth ministry sometimes can get skeptical because it can be like, oh that you know all you're doing is teaching.
NextGen Matters: That's just something I think powerful, you know, just want throw that in there.
Kyle: like like This is not an excuse to lazy ministry. It takes effort to come up with illustrations that help students understand the word.
NextGen Matters: Right.
Kyle: It takes effort to both know the kid and know the word so that when we're teaching, we're not just teaching, you know, I think about,
NextGen Matters: Mm-hmm.
Kyle: Like I want to teach in a way that actually hits my students who go to the schools. I'm i'm sitting in my office on on my wall over here. I have all pictures of almost all the schools that the kids go to.
Kyle: Like I want to teach in a way that they're being equipped to go into these buildings.
NextGen Matters: Nice.
Kyle: That's different than if I go speak at your church's youth group. I don't know those kids.
NextGen Matters: Right.
Kyle: Right.
NextGen Matters: Right, right.
Kyle: And I love to go speak places. I love to go do that.
NextGen Matters: Mm-hmm.
Kyle: But but it does take effort to do this. But the effort is worth it, because when you can actually shepherd kids and you can actually walk with them through the ups and downs of life and what's driving that is the unchanging word of God at the end of their life, i don't want them to think, oh, Pastor Kyle, he was a good youth pastor.
NextGen Matters: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kyle: But I want them to think, oh my goodness, if they lived to 75 for the last six decades of their life, they were in the word of God most days.
Kyle: If that can start when they're in my youth ministry, they can forget Pastor Kyle. I just don't want them to forget the word of God.
NextGen Matters: on Yep. Because, because it's not where they are right now.
Kyle: Yep.
Kyle: That's right.
NextGen Matters: Where are they going to be in 10 years?
Kyle: That's right. That's right.
NextGen Matters: I'm sincerely meaning that. Where are they going to be in 10 years?
Kyle: That's right.
NextGen Matters: So begin to wrap this up, bring this plane down as it descends. So, so why does the word matter? I got some thoughts here and to hear from Kyle at the back end. Leader hears the truth we cannot cannot escape.
NextGen Matters: A ministry will never rise above its relationship with the word of God higher than your relationship with the word of God.
NextGen Matters: You know, your programs may attract. Personalities, we may be magnetic. And relationships will engage. but only, as we've been saying, only the Bible will transform lives.
Kyle: Amen.
NextGen Matters: So if we do want spiritually fit ministries, we must build cultures where scripture is not, you ready, a software program, but it truly is the OS, the operating system of his ministry.
Kyle: amen
NextGen Matters: You know, it's like where students just don't hear the word. Yeah, they hear it, but they hunger for it and they're changed by it. So the real test It's not just what the students are hearing from us, but what do they really believe and do they demonstrate it in their own lives five and 10 years down the road, especially when they're moved away from our influence and in high school ministry, moved away from their parents' influence.
NextGen Matters: And that's also assuming that parents love Jesus and teach the word. And 96% of students do not come from Christian homes. So we have a huge obligation to be shepherding, like Paul says in 1 Timothy 4, the Word of God. So i want you all to dream with me.
NextGen Matters: Dream this with me. have dream.
Kyle: Thank you.
NextGen Matters: Here it is. Students, this is your youth room, right? This is you walk into a room, you student ministry center, you walk into, you get ready to do your midweek or your Sunday morning. Just dream with me.
NextGen Matters: You walk in and students, they have their Bibles with them. I mean, their actual Bibles with them. Their Bibles are there and they open it with eagerness as they genuinely expect to hear from God.
NextGen Matters: Students who can articulate truth with clarity and conviction not echoing what they just heard from you or i but owning what they've discovered from the word of God.
Kyle: Yep.
NextGen Matters: Dream with me. Students who live, I'm sorry, students whose lives I mean, are showing visible fruit, which can only be explained by the transforming power of the word of God.
NextGen Matters: And that's why the word matters. And that's why we must teach the word. Here's my four words. I used it in the classroom for years. I'm going to say it again. Accurately, completely, clearly, and practically.
Kyle: Yeah.
NextGen Matters: And this is why spiritually fit ministries bring their students to the word. Kyle, I've asked you to come up with three calls to action. What do you got?
Kyle: Yeah. I think the call to action number one is that, we need to know the word ourselves if we're going to teach the word to others. And I, I think there is some,
Kyle: difference in opinion on whether, you know, some people are like, Oh, you should have a a totally different devotional life than what you're teaching. And, and other people are like, Oh, if you're teaching the word of God, then, then that, that quote unquote counts.
Kyle: I think we need to drop the Pharisee and we just need to say, be in the word of God and teach the word of God. so and So the call to action number one would be to be in the word of God ourselves. Call of action number two would be when we're teaching the word of God, don't forget the youth leaders who are sitting there.
Kyle: The primary audience is the students, but don't forget that the word of God that you're teaching the students is also changing the leaders.
NextGen Matters: It's good.
Kyle: And we know that how God wired us educationally Psalm 139, we are knit together in our mother's womb, is sometimes we think about things differently if we're teaching rather than if we're just receiving.
Kyle: So in my setup, I'm teaching in a way where then the leaders are going to go in a small group with the students and lead a discussion based on what I teach.
NextGen Matters: Yes.
Kyle: now
NextGen Matters: And that's true for most. Yep.
Kyle: They're, they are, the leaders are listening as receivers, but they're also thinking how they're going to teach it to the students. And I think God, i actually, I don't think I know.
Kyle: i had as a message that was meant for the students. And I got a text message from a leader, how God used it to change that person's life.
NextGen Matters: Nice.
Kyle: And that person wasn't, that leader was not the main audience.
NextGen Matters: Nice.
Kyle: Right. So number one, make sure the word is changing you.
NextGen Matters: Great.
Kyle: Number two, don't forget that the word also changes the youth leaders that are there.
NextGen Matters: Mm-hmm.
Kyle: And then number three, I touched on this earlier, but when measuring success, don't measure bases the world measures because it's possible for a student to come to every single youth gathering and walk away.
NextGen Matters: Mm-hm.
Kyle: And it's also possible for students who who in the time of high school or middle school are you know not very into it that God
NextGen Matters: Mm-hm. Mm-hm.
Kyle: God says he will complete the mission he has for his word. And I have a student right now who serves as one of our leaders. And when he was in youth ministry, he, I think could give a rip what I was saying yet. Now he's following the Lord. He's leading one of these dig deeper groups. He's certain. and It's like, I, I,
NextGen Matters: cool.
Kyle: I find success too often in the metrics of the world. So those are my three takeaways.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Kyle: Make sure that the word is changing you.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Kyle: Make sure you're thinking of the adult leaders and don't count kids out. Maybe maybe a a simple way I could say point three. Don't count kids out who look like they're not interested in the word. God might just be growing them in a way where later on in life, they're going to be growing by the word.
NextGen Matters: Right.
NextGen Matters: Yeah, I'm sure every every listener, to think about it, you could trace back. There's one or two students you've had that you thought were totally checked out.
Kyle: Yep.
Kyle: Yep.
NextGen Matters: Then you find a later from them, i was actually listening to you.
Kyle: Unbelievable.
NextGen Matters: Praise God.
Kyle: Yeah, incredible.
NextGen Matters: all right. Hey, y'all, thanks for listening to this episode. And thank you for joining us here on the Next Gen Matters podcast. If today is truly ministered to you, Let me know. I'd love to hear. I love hearing feedback. richandnextgenmatters.com is my email address. i've put in the show notes. I'll have Kyle's email in there. Also, I have links to Kyle's two different websites he's referred to.
NextGen Matters: Leave a comment and please share this with someone else that could really minister to this. If you're kind of that point person of a ministry, I would encourage you to share this with your leadership team. with your volunteers as well.
NextGen Matters: And if you've not yet subscribed to the podcast, please do. And also, if you aren't yet receiving our weekly email called Thursday Tools, do so. I send it out every Thursday morning.
NextGen Matters: And it's not just it's it's not just a marketing email. It's not clickbait. It's honestly just how can I help provide a resource and some kind of an encouragement word for you.
Kyle: And Rich, can I make a point of that real quick for the listeners?
NextGen Matters: Do.
Kyle: So I'm a youth pastor and if you didn't get that so far, I'm a youth pastor and my inbox gets inundated with stuff from all different organizations, everything.
Kyle: But I believe that Rich is positioned in a place and he's not paying me and paying me to say this. I'm, you know, is positioned in through his experience but also it's rare for someone now to be leading an organization like this but still volunteer in youth ministry and so i would just encourage those i would just encourage those who get these emails in their inbox to read them because rich isn't talking just as a commentator on the sideline he has boy i mean I saw it firsthand.
NextGen Matters: I'm the old guy. Yeah.
NextGen Matters: yeah
Kyle: I went down there to Lynchburg. He spoke to my students and he's like, Oh, do you want to just have this? We ended up not coming to his house because there were too many of them, but he was like, Hey, I just had, uh, the, the small group over for a cereal, cereal bar and all that.
Kyle: And I'm like, this dude is so uncommon because he's not just commentating from the sidelines. He's actually ministering to teenagers today. So read, read the email that comes out.
Kyle: What every Thursday, rich.
NextGen Matters: Yeah. And what I've done with Walt's, with mine, with many ministry and business podcast, I actually create a folder so automatically goes there so doesn't get lost.
Kyle: Yes. That's awesome.
NextGen Matters: And then I have it like with our friend Mike McGarry. Everything from Youth Passion Theologian goes right to that because his is such gold.
Kyle: Yeah, that's right.
NextGen Matters: I don't want to drop any of those. So anyway, all right, cool.
Kyle: That's right. Hey, thank you, Rich.
NextGen Matters: You're welcome. Thank you, buddy. My friend, listen, like I said, if this has been an encouragement to you, please let us know. Your leadership matters because your ministry matters because the gospel matters.
NextGen Matters: Have a great day and a fantastic week doing God's word God's way. Take care.
