In the second episode in the five-part Vital Signs series of the NextGen Matters podcast, Rich sits down with Kyle Hoffsmith—family ministry pastor and fellow podcast host to tackle one of the most urgent questions facing NextGen leaders today: Is the Word of God truly at the center of our ministries?

From the opening minutes, Rich and Kyle go straight at the real issues: Are we teaching Scripture clearly and completely? Are students engaging the Bible on their own? Do they actually know what it says, and is it shaping their lives?  As Kyle puts it, “Whatever we put at the center of our student ministry will drive what happens in that student ministry.”

This conversation is a reality check for leaders who want more than hype, entertainment, or a “TED Talk” approach to teaching. Kyle shares how he builds a culture where the Word drives everything—leader training, discipleship, teaching rhythms, even how success is measured.

If you’re hungry to see students develop a real appetite for Scripture—students who bring their Bibles, ask deeper questions, and actually want to grow—this episode will fire you up and refocus your mission.

Resources Mentioned

Next Gen Matters – https://www.nextgenmatters.com/
The Word in Youth Ministry Podcast - https://cpyu.org/
Youth Ministry in the Vine (Book & Podcast) - https://matthiasmedia.com/
Email for Rich Brown (NGM): rich@nextgenmatters.com
Email for Kyle Hoffsmith (Old North Church, Canfield) khoffsmith@oldnorthchurch.org

Subscribe for NGM Thursday Tools email [https://share.hsforms.com/1n-kE71G4Qem-l1Sx5TSnVA47fkc] https://www.nextgenmatters.com/ [https://www.nextgenmatters.com/%20%20]contact us
Watch this episode on YouTube [https://youtu.be/Td0325NMyHI?si=VU2ETKbsrfbPehYh]

Timestamps

00:00 - The big questions: Are we truly teaching and living out the Word?
01:00 - Introducing Kyle Hoffsmith and the “Five Vital Signs” series
04:30 - Why the Word must be the centerpiece of student ministry
07:00 - Letting Scripture shape the entire ministry—not just lessons
10:00 - The danger of shallow teaching and losing older students
13:00 - Building a culture of the Word over time
22:00 - Practical ways to disciple students beyond large gatherings
32:00 - The role of the Holy Spirit in transformation
35:00 - Vision casting: What a “Grand Slam” Word-centered ministry looks like
41:00 - Three key calls to action for ministry leaders

#19: Why the Word? 5 Ministry Vital Signs pt.2

Show Notes 

In this first of five episodes speaking into the Five Ministry Vital Signs, Rich is joined by student pastor Ryan Brown and worship leader Jimmy Gillespie to unpack a foundational question for every ministry leader: Why does worship matter?

Together, they explore how worship is far more than just a musical set before a message—it is a spiritual catalyst that prepares hearts for an encounter with God and shapes the culture of a healthy ministry.

Together, they unpack how worship prepares the heart for an encounter with God, unifies the ministry, and sets the spiritual thermostat before the message begins.

Through practical insights and real ministry experience, the discussion goes into the critical connection between worship and teaching, the importance of unity between leaders, and how worship helps reveal the spiritual temperature of a room. The conversation also dives into how to cultivate authentic worship in student ministries—regardless of resources—while emphasizing the balance between spirit and truth.

If you want to cultivate a ministry where worship is more than music—where it becomes a lifestyle that forms disciples from the inside out—this episode will encourage, equip, and ignite your vision.

Resources Mentioned

Next Gen Matters – https://www.nextgenmatters.com/
Email for Rich Brown (NGM): rich@nextgenmatters.com
Email for Ryan Brown (Waymaker Church) ryan.brown@waymaker.church
Email for Jimmie Gillespie (Waymaker Church) jimmiegillespie@gmail.com
Subscribe for NGM Thursday Tools email [https://share.hsforms.com/1n-kE71G4Qem-l1Sx5TSnVA47fkc]
Watch this episode on YouTube [https://youtu.be/Td0325NMyHI?si=VU2ETKbsrfbPehYh]

The Bible (Scripture references in order: Psalm 24; Romans 12:1-2; Psalms 33, 34; Judges 13)

Timestamps

00:00 – Why worship sets the tone before teaching
01:00 – Overview of the “5 W’s” of healthy ministry
05:00 – Unity between worship and the message
08:30 – How worship reveals the spiritual temperature of students
14:00 – Worship as more than music (Romans 12 perspective)
20:00 – The role of worship in student development and discipleship
27:00 – Dreaming of authentic, lifestyle worship in students
37:00 – Practical application: personal, modeled, and taught worship

#18: Why Worship? 5 Ministry Vital Signs pt.1

In this episode, Rich Brown walks ministry leaders through a practical diagnostic for evaluating the spiritual health of their ministry. Using the metaphor of a medical checkup, Rich introduces five essential markers of spiritual health. As Rich says, “Spiritual health grows in ministries that intentionally are cultivating five essential markers.”.

Drawing from decades of ministry experience and Scripture, Rich unpacks the five W’s, (Worship, Word, Welcome, Witness, and Work) and how they function together to create a culture where the Holy Spirit forms genuine disciples and where students grow into a thriving, gospel-centered community.

These markers act like spiritual lab work—they reveal strengths, weaknesses, and areas needing attention. “These five markers… are the spiritual diagnostics of your ministry.”  When they’re active, ministries don’t just gather students as groups, but they deepen these young disciples into ministries which will broaden gospel impact and glorify God.

Resources Mentioned

Next Gen Matters – https://www.nextgenmatters.com/

Email for Rich Brown (NGM): rich@nextgenmatters.com

Subscribe for NGM Thursday Tools email [https://share.hsforms.com/1n-kE71G4Qem-l1Sx5TSnVA47fkc]

Watch this episode on YouTube [https://youtu.be/Td0325NMyHI?si=VU2ETKbsrfbPehYh]

The Bible (Scripture references in order: John 4:23; Colossians 3:16; Matthew 18:5; Acts 1:8; 1 Thessalonians 1:7-9; Ephesians 4:12)

Timestamps

00:00–01:30 – The ministry health checkup: why spiritual diagnostics matter
01:30–03:40 – Introducing the five markers of a spiritually healthy ministry
03:40–09:45 – Worship: cultivating genuine passion for the presence of God
09:45–13:45 – The Word: building ministries centered on Scripture and discipleship
13:45–18:10 – Welcome: creating a culture where every student belongs
18:10–23:00 – Witness: helping students live and share the gospel as a lifestyle
23:00–26:30 – Work: developing the heart of a servant and opportunities to serve
26:30–End – Final diagnostic questions and three practical action steps for leaders

#17: FIVE SIGNS your ministry is Spiritually Fit  

Episode Show Notes

Ministry comparison is one of the quietest and most corrosive forces shaping the hearts of NextGen leaders. In this episode, Rich continues the conversation he began with his son, Ryan Brown, and takes us deeper into the internal, external, and spiritual pressures that make comparison so powerful—and so destructive. But comparison doesn’t have to be a trap.  When handled with honesty and humility, it can become a teacher that clarifies calling, strengthens character, and deepens unity in the body of Christ.

This episode names the struggle, exposes the traps, and offers a biblically grounded pathway toward freedom, faithfulness, and joy.

Resources Mentioned

 * Next Gen Matters – https://www.nextgenmatters.com/
 * Email for Rich Brown (NGM): rich@nextgenmatters.com
 * Subscribe for NGM Thursday Tools email [https://share.hsforms.com/1n-kE71G4Qem-l1Sx5TSnVA47fkc]
 * Watch this episode on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai4rFeutn1Y]

Scripture Mentioned
Scripture references in order: 2 Corinthians 3:4-5, Philippians 1:15-18, 1 Corinthians 12, Colossians 2:10

Timestamps

00:00–02:20 – The heart of Next Gen Matters and framing the comparison conversation

02:20–06:50 – Three primary sources of comparison: internal, external, and spiritual

06:50–10:45 – Ungrieved loss: the ministry you expected, the growth you hoped for, the opportunities that didn’t come

10:45–22:05 – When comparison becomes a trap: distorted identity, insecurity, competition, performance, loss of joy, and resentment

22:05–27:50 – When comparison becomes a teacher: clarified calling, diversity in the body, growth, collaboration, and seeing God’s faithfulness

27:50–35:05 – Practical frameworks: Flip the dashboard, the calling triangle (identity, assignment, season), and confidence vs. competence

35:05–41:30 – Fostering gratitude and choosing peer circles over performance circles

41:30–End – Call to action: name your comparison, celebrate another leader, and walk forward in joy

#16: Breaking Free from Ministry Comparison 

Episode Overview

Comparison is one of the most exhausting and unspoken pressures in ministry. In this father–son conversation, Rich and Ryan Brown unpack how comparison sneaks into our leadership—through social media, ministry highlight reels, church metrics, and even well‑meaning comments from others. Together they explore the roots of comparison, the ways it can be both healthy and destructive, and how ministry leaders can approach it with a godly, grounded perspective and can guard their hearts while celebrating others and staying faithful to their unique calling.

This episode invites leaders to slow down, name the pressure, and remember that God never asked us to run someone else’s race. He called us to be faithful with the people, gifts, and opportunities He has entrusted to us—right where we are.

Key Themes

- What Comparison Looks Like in Ministry
- Why Comparison Is So Common
- Healthy Comparison
- Unhealthy Comparison
- Biblical Patterns of Comparison

Resources Mentioned

• NextGen Matters – https://www.nextgenmatters.com/• The Bible (Scripture references in order: Genesis 4; Romans 12; 1 Corinthians 11:1; John 21)

Links

• Email for Rich Brown (NGM): rich@nextgenmatters.com• Subscribe for NGM Thursday Tools email [https://share.hsforms.com/1n-kE71G4Qem-l1Sx5TSnVA47fkc]• Watch this episode on YouTube [https://youtu.be/Td0325NMyHI?si=VU2ETKbsrfbPehYh]

Timestamps  
• 00:00–03:30 – The pressure of comparison in ministry leadership
• 03:30–08:30 – Defining comparison and generational perspectives
• 08:30–15:30 – Healthy vs. unhealthy comparison and biblical foundations
• 15:30–22:30 – The root of comparison: envy, coveting, and insecurity
• 22:30–29:30 – Social media, metrics, and the hidden cost of comparison
• 29:30–34:30 – Calling vs. competence: staying in your lane
• 34:30–39:07 – Practical action steps: celebrate others, celebrate your wins, and remain faithful

#15: The Subtle Trap of Ministry Comparison

In this powerful conversation, Rich sits down with longtime friend Cody Mummau, high school pastor at Thomas Road Baptist Church, to unpack the heart, vision, and behind-the-scenes journey of transforming a long-standing single-church winter retreat into a citywide, multi-church movement called Episode. What began as one church’s long‑standing winter retreat has transformed into a multi‑church, kingdom‑minded movement—one marked by humility, collaboration, and a shared desire to reach the next generation.

Cody shares how God prepared him years earlier through ministry partnerships in North Carolina, where he learned the impact of churches working together rather than competing. Now serving in his hometown, he’s bringing that same vision to the 434 area code—inviting churches of all sizes and backgrounds to unite students around the gospel.

As Rich says in the episode, “I want you to be motivated to ask yourself, what can I do to be a part of something greater than just me?”

And as Cody reflects, “There’s no possible way that even as large as our student ministry is, we can’t do it alone… The church has to reach the city.”

This conversation is a behind‑the‑scenes look at humility, collaboration, and the kind of leadership that builds a culture of “we, not me.”

Links

Episode Sessions (student gathering hosted by Thomas Road Baptist Church)
• Episode Recap [https://youtu.be/9LHSY45EPlk?si=oG9mSD8gAjvAigqH]
• Session 1 [https://www.youtube.com/live/vkF7y9G4mvA?si=SC97H2VYNrAQmrGc]
• Session 2 [https://www.youtube.com/live/g4kdd_TU5yo?si=Pb-pmGIGkH1K4NAe]
• Session 3 [https://www.youtube.com/live/_sUNkl3pAjI?si=l_flyyy6v-KjObxg]

• Email for Cody Mummau (TRBC): cody.mummau@trbc.org
• Email for Rich Brown (NGM): rich@nextgenmatters.com
• Subscribe for NGM Thursday Tools email [https://share.hsforms.com/1n-kE71G4Qem-l1Sx5TSnVA47fkc]
• Watch this episode on YouTube [https://youtu.be/Td0325NMyHI?si=VU2ETKbsrfbPehYh]

Timestamps

• 00:00–02:00  – The mission of Next Gen Matters and introducing Cody Mumaw
• 02:00–07:30   – From North Carolina to Lynchburg: Cody’s ministry journey
• 07:30–15:30    – The early days of collaboration: The 460 Project and multi-church retreats
• 15:30–23:30    – 180 Weekend: Scaling a shared student event across 30+ churches
• 23:30–30:30   – Returning home and reimagining “Episode” as a kingdom-centered gathering
• 30:30–36:30   – Building trust among churches and creating a culture of shared leadership
• 36:30–42:30   – Practical steps for leaders: Finding your people and starting small
• 42:30–End      – Don’t quit: Longevity, community, and a 24-hour action plan for collaboration



#14: When NextGen Ministries Unite (interview with Cody Mummau regarding Episode 2026)

Episode Show Notes

In this deeply personal and joy‑filled conversation, Rich sits down with his youngest son, Ryan Brown—now a student pastor at Waymaker.Church—to explore the long, winding, grace‑saturated journey of a student who once resisted God but is now leading others toward Him. The episode opens with a reminder that “spiritually healthy students come from spiritually healthy ministry systems… and these systems only come from and through healthy ministry leaders” From there, Rich and Ryan trace Ryan’s story from his adolescence filled with misplaced worship and identity struggles to the slow, steady pursuit of God through prayer, caring parents and leaders, and God’s providence.

This episode is a deeply personal conversation as together they explore Ryan’s journey from being that resisting student to answering God’s call into salvation and then ministry, offering hope and perspective for leaders and parents loving students whose stories are still being written.

Resources Mentioned

• Episode (student gathering hosted by Thomas Road Baptist Church)
• The Bible (Scripture references in order: Titus 2:11–12)

Links

Email for Rich Brown (NGM): rich@nextgenmatters.com
Subscribe for NGM Thursday Tools email [https://share.hsforms.com/1n-kE71G4Qem-l1Sx5TSnVA47fkc]
Watch this episode on YouTube [https://youtu.be/Td0325NMyHI?si=VU2ETKbsrfbPehYh]

Timestamps

• 00:00–02:00 – The mission of Next Gen Matters and introducing Ryan Brown
• 02:00–06:30 – The power of city-wide unity through the Episode gathering
• 06:30–12:00 – Growing up in church while resisting God
• 12:00–18:30 – Misplaced worship, loss, and God getting Ryan’s attention
• 18:30–27:45 – Godly friendships, surrender, and authentic joy in Christ
• 27:45–35:45 – Calling into ministry and learning leadership through humility
• 35:45–41:45 – Grace that saves and grace that trains
• 41:45–48:00 – Encouragement for leaders loving resistant students

#13: From Resisting to Redeemed (Interview with Ryan Brown)

Episode Show Notes

Loving Students Who Don’t Love You Back

Every NextGen leader knows the sting of pouring into a student who doesn’t respond—or suddenly pulls away. In this episode, Rich Brown unpacks why this hurts so deeply, what might really be going on beneath the surface, and how to navigate the spiritual tension of loving without reciprocity. Drawing from Paul’s words in 2 Corinthians and Jesus’ own experience with rejection, Rich offers practical, emotionally healthy strategies as this episode equips ministry leaders to remain faithful, consistent, and emotionally mature—even when relationships feel one-sided.

Resources Mentioned

• The Bible (Scripture references in order: 2 Corinthians 6:11–13; Luke 13:34; Matthew 23:37; Matthew 11:28–30; Philippians 1:6)

Links

Email for Rich Brown (NGM): rich@nextgenmatters.com
Subscribe for NGM Thursday Tools email [https://share.hsforms.com/1n-kE71G4Qem-l1Sx5TSnVA47fkc]
Watch this episode on YouTube [https://youtu.be/Td0325NMyHI?si=VU2ETKbsrfbPehYh]

Timestamps

• 0:00–2:12 – Introducing the pain of relational rejection in NextGen ministry
• 2:12–7:02 – Biblical examples of rejection: Paul and Jesus
• 7:02–9:48 – The struggle: why rejection hurts more than we admit
• 9:48–19:22 – The situation: understanding what may be going on beneath the surface
• 19:22–22:14 – When rejection is partly our responsibility: a personal ministry failure
• 22:14–29:56 – The spiritual tension: loving without reciprocity, reflecting the heart of God
• 29:56–35:14 – The strategy: healthy, practical ways to love students who pull away
• 35:14–41:24 – Faithfulness over approval: why your love and consistency still matter
• 41:24–43:07 – Call to action, encouragement, and closing

#12: Loving Students Who Don’t Love You Back

In this episode, Rich Brown welcomes his very first guest—his wife of more than 40 years, Dr. Janet Kay Brown—for a heartfelt and deeply practical conversation about family, faith, and the quiet power of showing up for kids who may feel on the margins.  In sharing her story, Janet traces God’s faithfulness from a childhood shaped by a local church bus ministry to a life spent empowering families, students, and future leaders. She then shares how her early experiences—growing up in a non‑Christian home, finding Christ through a friend’s invitation to church as a second grader, and eventually being shaped by caring adults—now fuel her passion for equipping the next generation. This episode encourages every children’s, youth, and family ministry leader to keep showing up, keep leaning in, and never underestimate the long-term impact of consistent love in a child’s life.

Links

Email for Rich Brown (NGM): rich@nextgenmatters.com
Subscribe for NGM Thursday Tools email [https://share.hsforms.com/1n-kE71G4Qem-l1Sx5TSnVA47fkc]
Watch this episode on YouTube [https://youtu.be/Td0325NMyHI?si=VU2ETKbsrfbPehYh]

Timestamps

• 00:00–03:30 – Introduction to the podcast and meeting Dr. Janet Kay Brown

• 03:31–07:30 – Personal life, hobbies, vocation, and passion for education

• 07:31–12:15 – Family “one” and family “two”: marriage, children, and grandchildren

• 12:16–16:20 – Janet’s faith story: coming to Christ as a child without Christian parents

• 16:21–20:30 – The role of faithful adults, bus ministry, and unseen seeds of impact

• 20:31–24:50 – Developing a passion for family ministry and spiritual formation

• 24:51–28:40 – Encouragement to children’s and student ministry leaders

• 28:41–34:00 – Call to action: identifying and leaning into the “one foot in” students

• 34:01–End – Closing encouragement, resources, and next steps for leaders

#11: Never Underestimate the Seeds You’re Planting (interview with Janet Brown)

Ministry can feel isolating even when you're surrounded by people. In this episode, Rich Brown unpacks why ministry peer relationships are essential for healthy, sustainable leadership. Drawing from his own journey and from Paul’s ministry relationships in Colossians 4, Rich explains how peer connections combat isolation, strengthen resilience, and provide spiritual, emotional, and practical support for NextGen ministry leaders.

If you’ve ever felt alone in leadership, this episode will encourage you, ground you, and remind you that you don’t have to lead by yourself.

Discount Code for the Northeast Youth Ministry Summit (if registered by Feb. 1, 2026)
NGM40

Resources Mentioned

• NextGen Matters – https://nextgenmatters.com/

• National Network of Youth Ministries (NNYM) – https://nnym.org/

• Center for Parent and Youth Understanding (CPYU) – https://cpyu.org/

• Youth Culture Matters Podcast – https://cpyu.org/podcast/

• Northeast Youth Ministry Summit – https://northeastyouthministrysummit.com/

• LeaderTreks – https://leadertreks.org/

• The Bible (Scripture references in order: Colossians 4:7-11; 1:16)

Email Addresses
Rich Brown (NGM) rich@nextgenmatters.com
Doug Clark (NNYM) dclark@nnym.org

Timestamps

• 0:00–2:30 – Welcome, podcast milestone, and episode promise

• 2:30–6:00 – Rich’s personal ministry journey and the shift into isolation

• 6:00–12:15 – Paul’s ministry peers in Colossians 4 and biblical foundations

• 12:15–18:30 – Five reasons ministry peer relationships matter

• 18:30–26:30 – Five benefits of healthy ministry peer relationships

• 26:30–36:45 – Five practical ways to build and sustain peer relationships

• 36:45–40:15 – Call to action, encouragement, and closing challenge

#10: Stronger Together: The Power of Ministry Peer Relationships

Those leading in Next Generation ministries are navigating a complex landscape of relational, emotional, and organizational pressures that demand resilience, creativity, and deep community connection to sustain impactful ministry in a rapidly changing world. 

Does this sound like you?  Then we're glad you're here!

NextGen Matters and this podcast are here to guide you through the complexity by providing you with Biblically sound solutions to meet your ministry needs.

Why this podcast?

Our show helps NextGen ministry leaders overcome the stress of ministry by covering topics that matter for leaders that matter.  With over forty years of continual practical youth ministry experience, Rich understands the journey of where student ministry has been, the challenges facing ministry leaders today, as we prepare another generation to follow Jesus into tomorrow.  His desire is to see this podcast be a resource for those who are professional NextGen Ministry leaders, volunteer NextGen Ministry leaders, and anyone who cares about the Next Generation.  

"If we are going to have spiritually healthy students, we must have spiritually healthy local church student ministry cultures, which must come from a place of spiritually healthy ministry leaders.  This podcast exists for that reason!  I want to come alongside you by engaging with you, encouraging you, equipping you, and empowering you to fulfill the God-given calling He has placed on you in your ministry to this current generation of adolescents."  ~ Rich Brown

Each episode deals with the real issues today's youth leaders are facing with real solutions based on the timeless truth of God's Word.  And that is a promise!

About our Host

Rich grew up in a small town in central New York, which featured one stop light and two gas stations. Born into a godly ministry family and consistently seeing and hearing the gospel, Rich gave his life over to Jesus as a young age.

During college, he met the young lady of his dreams! Rich says, "Jesus and Janet were the two best decisions I’ve ever made!” They have been married since 1985. Rich and Janet have three adult children (two married), and five grandchildren. His two sons are ordained pastors in ministry, and his daughter owns her own salon. Most important, they all love Jesus!

While in college, God called him to student ministries and Rich has been working with students ever since, even now volunteering in his church’s high school ministry. With over 20 years as a student pastor in the local church followed by over 20 years in teaching student ministry in higher education, he loves students and student ministry leaders. In 2019 God called him to begin his own ministry, NextGenMatters, where he seeks to “relationally equip today’s leaders for tomorrow’s generation.” While his primary ministry is now ministering to adults, it all centers back to seeing teenagers be fully mature lifelong disciples of Jesus.

He avidly follows baseball, loves landscaping on his two acres, is a history nerd, and doesn't know a day without coffee. His lifelong desire is to live out Colossians 1:28-29.

NextGen Matters

Each episode deals with the real issues today's youth leaders are facing with real solutions based on the timeless truth of God's Word.

NextGen Matters

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