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#13: From Resisting to Redeemed (Interview with Ryan Brown)
42 Plays1 month ago
Episode Show Notes
In this deeply personal and joy‑filled conversation, Rich sits down with his youngest son, Ryan Brown—now a student pastor at Waymaker.Church—to explore the long, winding, grace‑saturated journey of a student who once resisted God but is now leading others toward Him. The episode opens with a reminder that “spiritually healthy students come from spiritually healthy ministry systems… and these systems only come from and through healthy ministry leaders” From there, Rich and Ryan trace Ryan’s story from his adolescence filled with misplaced worship and identity struggles to the slow, steady pursuit of God through prayer, caring parents and leaders, and God’s providence.
This episode is a deeply personal conversation as together they explore Ryan’s journey from being that resisting student to answering God’s call into salvation and then ministry, offering hope and perspective for leaders and parents loving students whose stories are still being written.
Resources Mentioned
• Episode (student gathering hosted by Thomas Road Baptist Church)
• The Bible (Scripture references in order: Titus 2:11–12)
Links
Email for Rich Brown (NGM): rich@nextgenmatters.com
Subscribe for NGM Thursday Tools email
Watch this episode on YouTube
Timestamps
• 00:00–02:00 – The mission of Next Gen Matters and introducing Ryan Brown
• 02:00–06:30 – The power of city-wide unity through the Episode gathering
• 06:30–12:00 – Growing up in church while resisting God
• 12:00–18:30 – Misplaced worship, loss, and God getting Ryan’s attention
• 18:30–27:45 – Godly friendships, surrender, and authentic joy in Christ
• 27:45–35:45 – Calling into ministry and learning leadership through humility
• 35:45–41:45 – Grace that saves and grace that trains
• 41:45–48:00 – Encouragement for leaders loving resistant students
Recommended
Transcript
Empowering the Next Generation
00:00:01
NextGen Matters
For those of us who serve in NextGen Ministries, here's what we have learned. Spiritually healthy students come from spiritually healthy ministry systems. And these systems only come from and through healthy ministry leaders.
00:00:15
NextGen Matters
And that's why NextGen Matters is all about relationally empowering ministry leaders to impact the next generation. Hey friend, this is Rich Brown. Welcome again to the Next Gen Matters podcast, a show for ministry leaders who are seeking to move beyond overwhelm and move into leading with clarity, confidence, and consistency.
00:00:35
NextGen Matters
Last episode, we leaned into loving students who don't always love us back. And I already heard it from people saying, yeah, and you identified who they were. You know, the student who resists you and actually can even be resisting God.
Introducing Ryan Brown
00:00:51
NextGen Matters
So my hope and literally my prayer is that by the end of this episode, you'll be introduced, first of all, to our guest. If you're watching on YouTube, to my right, my son, Ryan Brown, as he'll be taking on an active role within the Next Gen Matters podcast.
00:01:06
NextGen Matters
But also, even more than just the intro, is for you to rejoice in what God desires to do in the life of a student who, right now, is resisting Him.
00:01:17
NextGen Matters
In today's episode, I'm inviting you into a very personal conversation between myself and a student ministry professional who, yes, happens to be my youngest son, Ryan. And it's so good, Ryan, to have you with us yes today. is a joy to be here. It is an honor to be here. All righty. Tell us what you're currently doing and what church you're currently
Ryan's Journey in Ministry
00:01:38
NextGen Matters
serving in. Yeah, so currently the Lord has me serving and at Waymaker Church here in Forest, Virginia, and I'm the student pastor.
00:01:48
NextGen Matters
Beautifully placed a mile from where I went to high school. So literally every day driving to work, I pass my high school, and it's just kind of a fresh and real reminder of like where I was physically 10 years then spiritually like where I'm at now and just driving by as a great reminder of his grace. So yes, which is today's conversation. Yes, absolutely. now we just came off you and I, cause I, I, he's my boss now. I serve as a volunteer, so he gets to tell dad what to do.
00:02:20
NextGen Matters
He's actually a nice boss. By the way, we just came off a phenomenal weekend called Episode, where our host, Pastor Cody Mumaw from Thomas Road Baptist Church has invited the community.
The Episode Event
00:02:33
NextGen Matters
There were 15 churches represented, 1,000 students, 400 volunteer and and and staff as well, leaders,
00:02:42
NextGen Matters
all from one city here in the central part of Virginia called Lynchburg, Virginia, as we gather together for this this event, this gathering called episode. I talked about that in our episode number 10 on how we should be leaning into each other and how to be gathering together.
00:02:59
NextGen Matters
with other brothers and sisters for the purpose of relational depth and relational help, but also what we can do together for the kingdom's sake. And Cody, Cody doesn't know this yet, but Cody, if you're listening now, I am totally planning on reaching out to you like probably today.
00:03:15
NextGen Matters
because I really want to bring you in to one of our soon coming episodes, Ryan, so we can have the conversation with him about what goes on behind the scenes and the beauty and the the majesty of working together for the kingdom's sake. So Ryan, you were part of the conversations for the last few months as one of the, I'll say key youth pastors in helping put this together.
00:03:36
NextGen Matters
What are some of the wins that you have seen? You've had a few days now, the dust has settled. Hopefully you got some sleep. right You got two littles at home, yeah a three-year-old and a seven-month-old beautiful little girl. But you've had some time now away from it. We've already got responses from students in our yeah our text that we're in with our with our guys. What are some of your thoughts now? Yeah, still still like sifting through all of them. Taking it from just like the actual youth pastor youth leader side of things, I have never personally seen anything
00:04:05
NextGen Matters
like that. I have been in past and prior contexts in ministry where doing something like that was just completely not even on the table. So it was really cool to see the unity of 15 different youth pastors and churches as a whole just giving their yes to say, hey, we want to come together. It's not about one name. We're not going label any sort of one ministry as superior or anything like that. And yeah we saw that in the behind the scenes at the youth pastor luncheons. And when we pray together of just, hey, like we want to intercess and pray for this event and yes, talk logistics, but also just have you guys, you know, get to know one another and and all of those things. So for me as like the youth leader, that was really cool to see that, but then getting there in person and having all of our students there
00:04:59
NextGen Matters
they're hit a point in the night on friday where i think you just realize okay yes we took x amount of students you know some ministries took hundreds some took 10 and no matter what size of group you you brought it was just beautiful beautiful to see the collection of so all the students and you kind of forgot i mean parents not in a bad way but you kind of forgot like Where are all of our students at in the midst of this, like these thousand different students? Because, I mean, it was just a swarm. Well, we were all sitting together. So you're saying parents don't freak out, meaning. Yes. Did we we we were all do our job? Yeah, yeah, As far as supervisory. it was just cool to see, like, you couldn't tell, hey, Waymakers over here, Highlands over here, Heritage is over here. I mean, it was just just one in unison. Everyone's together. Yeah.
00:05:46
NextGen Matters
And so at one point, Cody had, he's like, hey, I want you to just go up to the balcony during one of the sessions and just see everyone worship. And so at that point, like I looked and at the very back and looking forward, saw, you know, 14, 1500, just total people wow all worshiping. And it was it was really cool. And one of the things that I had texted a few of our guys, just really simply, and I'm going ask our students this tomorrow, just to get a hand, like kind of engaged and see their hands. I said, how many
00:06:16
NextGen Matters
how many of you saw anyone at your schools wearing you know episode shirts, you know sweatshirts, merch of any sort, hats, and you know people started saying yes. So I'm excited to kind of see their response with that tomorrow when I ask, just to have that conversation continue of, hey, like I'm not alone, just if I go to,
00:06:35
NextGen Matters
this church or this church or that church, like we're all in this together. i personally, though, like I said at the very beginning of this, I've never seen anything like it in youth ministry specifically.
Ryan's Spiritual Transformation
00:06:47
NextGen Matters
Well, for us, though, geez, I have. If you're im in my 60s, so if you've been in ministry for at least 20 some years, you may remember a name and a ministry that God mightily used, and that was Ron Luce and Team Mania with the Acquire the Fire conventions or require fire gatherings. And that's what I remember because when you were a little lad in Seattle, we would take, you know, our 30, 40, whatever. And here in the middle of 5,000 teenagers plus then adults.
00:07:17
NextGen Matters
And it was phenomenal to see for the greater your Puget Sound of, yes, if you're watching, the Hawks did win the game, so go Hawks, right? So yeah, for all of Puget Sound and even the state of Washington, some even Oregonians came up a few hours away to be part of that massive gathering. And that's the power I saw And I was in in my later 30s watching that. And I was like, wow, I had never seen that. So I'm glad that you're able to see that. Well, you look at Ryan now we're to keep moving. but You look at Ryan now and you go, wow, well, okay, he seems like he's got all together. He pretty much does. Okay. And I learned from him and I really do. I love listening to his teaching. I'm like, I told his uncle, my brother-in-law, Peter, just yesterday on the phone. I says, man, Ryan is more mature at 30 than I ever wanted to be at 30. So i I actually do learn from him and it's cool.
00:08:02
NextGen Matters
But you see that, you see this dude, maybe has it all together, right? But that's not always the story when he was younger. And that's what we're going to dive into a little bit. I don't know about your story.
00:08:13
NextGen Matters
Just like in my own home growing up, I have two sons. They're both ordained pastors. One grew up absolutely having a heart and a hunger for the things of God. One did not. That one did that did not is sitting next to me. And this is what we're going to do is I want us to see that The student that is resisting, that's where this actually this conversation really dials back into. It's almost like it is. It's a continuation of last episode. Because that student who's resisting, remember I said last episode, if you listened to it, if you didn't, go listen to it.
00:08:44
NextGen Matters
is The very last thing I was saying was, their story is not yet written. And my son, his story, I had to keep realizing as a dad, his son was not yet written.
00:08:54
NextGen Matters
So I'd like to share with you just some thoughts back and forth that Ryan's going to share as well. But here's this young man growing up as as a child and as a preteen, growing up in a Christian home, one that is all about ministry.
00:09:07
NextGen Matters
I was the student pastor until you were in second grade. Then we moved here. or became a professor of youth ministries. you know Your grandpa, my dad, was... All you knew is Grandpa Brown was a pastor as far as that's all you've known is like all your aunts and uncles, we all seem to be kind of involved in ministry.
00:09:23
NextGen Matters
and And absolutely, I just thank God my own prayer time this morning that even all of my siblings, extended families, even now the next generation is plural, Ryan, all of Jesus. I mean, what a testimony of mom and dad, my mom and dad, you know. to truly Psalm 78, passing it down to the next generation.
00:09:41
NextGen Matters
And yet you weren't you weren't really there. i mean, you were present, you were present, but you weren't really there spiritually. So what are some of your thoughts when you would hear second grade, fifth grade, eighth grade, you hear the name Jesus. You were there in church every Sunday, arms folded, but you heard the name Jesus, Christianity. What what was going through your mind?
00:10:02
NextGen Matters
I associated... Christianity with just merely maybe being a good person and having somewhat good morals and values.
00:10:14
NextGen Matters
But at the core and at the root of it, when I was really like digging beyond the surface and and thinking through this, I just had, it came down to like having misplaced worship and and idleship.
00:10:27
NextGen Matters
i respected you guys and respected the church. And again, I think it it went back to having good morals of honoring your mom and dad. And I wouldn't physically fight you guys to not get in the car to go to church.
00:10:46
NextGen Matters
Although my attitude and heart was not in the correct place, right? We all know that. I did not show that with physical violence or anything like that. But yeah, at the root, it just came to having misplaced idleship and worship. And, you know, we were all created to worship something in someone, obviously God. And just in those years, I was misplaced. i was worshiping all of the other things outside of the beauty and the personhood of Jesus. So that's where it would boil down to.
00:11:20
NextGen Matters
Yeah, so I think I still honored and respected you guys, which maybe looks like as an external appearance to honoring the faith. But, you know, being a disciple of Jesus, that was not me. yet Right, right.
00:11:34
NextGen Matters
And I even began labeling not... externally, but internally, say you, you are the the respectful rebel rebelling against God, but not really us per se, but, but you're respecting us and you really did. And you respected the environment around you. yeah But yet I knew, remember that just watching in church, you know, slouched down, staring ahead, arms folded, resisting,
00:12:01
NextGen Matters
and breaking my heart. And you and you knew that. i mean, you had to know that. But yet this is and we're not going to unpack a lot of that family dynamic at this point, maybe later, which I'd love to do with your mom, because your story, Ryan, I believe so strongly resonates with so many families who are doing everything they can to see their child grow up to genuinely love internally, spirit led love Jesus Christ.
00:12:27
NextGen Matters
And yeah, a lot of these parents have hit the wall, like, what do I do next? And we were there. were like, what do we do? or What do we do? I'm just crying out to the Lord, just just reach his heart. What changed? You're resisting salvation, but then like what what flipped?
00:12:41
NextGen Matters
Yeah. I mean, i to answer that question of what you were insinuating, I was like, the continual prayers and you and mom, and I know everyone else in our family, essentially, to continue to pray for me and for me to come to know Jesus. like I look back...
00:12:58
NextGen Matters
Now, and what I point to a lot of people to is I now remember all of the moments and times that you guys prayed with me, even when I didn't want you to pray with me before school yeahp and on the way out the door.
00:13:13
NextGen Matters
But I also know for a fact that that was not the only time you guys were praying for me. So, I mean, that's a very... like, I guess, applicable, but also very much real way for parents and leaders to invite the Holy Spirit into that.
00:13:30
NextGen Matters
Just part of someone else's life is to pray for them and pray with them. Even obviously, there's so much power in prayer. So that I like I look back now as a reflection to say, hey, that there's so much fruit now, you know, from that. What changed? I mean, it was, it goes back to what I said, like, I had misplaced idol ship and worship. So I went through a series of events where the things I was idolizing in worshiping were those altars, those towers of Babel were essentially collapsed.
00:14:02
NextGen Matters
I went through a phase in late high school, early college where was loves to work out but that was where all of my desire and affection and quote unquote lordship was put into and identity and identity and i found my identity and specific relationships and honestly having trying to obtain a status through work. So all of these other like lanes in life that on their own aren't necessarily sinful, right? Like working and and working out and having relationships, but it was in the act of those things and where my heart was in those things. That is where the worship goes.
00:14:52
NextGen Matters
was misplaced. And so all that say, uh, it was late high school, early college were honestly just kind of like domino effect. They all started just fall and collapse one at a time, like literally month after month. That was your senior year going into your freshman year.
00:15:09
NextGen Matters
so yeah my senior year of high school uh my best friend he suddenly had passed away in a car accident tragically and i remembered in that moment uh that was uh of gosh yeah was may of 2014 and that was when the lord really started to capture and like get my attention like hey and you need to start paying attention to what's going on not only around you, but within you. And so I saw that happen. And I remembered going to that funeral and leading up to those days, like I remember turning on 10,000 Reasons by Matt Redman. That was the first worship song I listened to on my own.
00:15:52
NextGen Matters
Wow. And like listening to that. And then I remembered I opened up my Bible for the first time on my own. And That wasn't a moment where true repentance and discipleship followed all at one time, but that was a season where the Lord started to really like plant seeds and work in my heart.
00:16:13
NextGen Matters
And from then that's where people really stepped into the picture. And so was in that moment where people around me who were other friends of my friend who had passed away, that's where they just began to like speak life into me and those things i was like man these people are so different they're not the typical people that i thought were christians but they don't act like it it was kind of that label i had thrown on people which was obviously sinful of me to do that and so i was like man they actually are the real deal they're not counterfeit christians that i thought they were and so people's actions were speaking
00:16:51
NextGen Matters
Louder, right? Like than just what they say in their bio or say on their, where they go to school, that sort of thing. So it was really cool. And then, uh, honestly, like immediately following that, guys are taking me on a journey of, Hey, may I back up a little bit, please? Sure.
Early Challenges and Growth
00:17:06
NextGen Matters
He worked at Chick-fil-A and it was his Chick-fil-A posse. It was his team. it was his tribe. Those that were on his shift that at your junior into your senior year in high school that I was so thankful that because you never really fit into a traditional youth group. You would attend, but you didn't really attend, you know, in your mind and all that. And I was telling my friends who were praying over you, it's like, I said, Ryan's actually got his own youth group now, meaning his Chick-fil-A friends, including Danny, the one who suddenly passed away.
00:17:38
NextGen Matters
And something that Ryan actually did share, like a eulogy for his friend here in Lynchburg, and He was so nervous. Of course, you know his heart's been broken. And he's never spoken in public. He's extremely, at that point, he's extremely introverted in many ways.
00:17:58
NextGen Matters
And to get up in front of hundreds of people and share. and I remember, Ryan, you got done. You may forgot it. you may remember this, but you looked right at me and you said, I'll never do that again, meaning speak in public. And I said to him, because he I knew that God was going to win his heart. I knew it. I couldn't force Jesus on him. I could just keep presenting Jesus and keep showing him the love of Jesus I have for Jesus and the love of Jesus I have for him.
00:18:23
NextGen Matters
But I knew, I already knew, crazy it sounds, I had a word, right? No, it's crazy as it sounds. I knew God was going to save him, and almost like Paul in the in the New Testament, and also call him into ministry. I just sensed, i saw leadership in him. I saw all the i saw all the the the God alignment, if you will, of what God wanted to do in his life.
00:18:43
NextGen Matters
But God had to reach him. I couldn't. So when he said, I'll never speak in public, I'll never do that again. I said to you something like, I wouldn't say that because you just don't know. In my mind, I'm going, wah, wah, wah. I know. So every time I hear you Wednesday nights, I think about this this high schooler going, I'll never speak again.
00:19:03
NextGen Matters
Never say never. Bam. so well i think i mean Please continue. Not to get too much in the weeds of what just said, but also least like people have influence and people have power through the spirit of the God, obviously, the spirit of God, but like people have influence in your life. And so we, as ministry leaders, we can also be strategic of what people we position and put into our students' lives of whether that be small group leaders specifically or other like specific students. Hey, I know they may be in this grade and that students in this grade, but man, I know that they would go well together. And like just orchestrating all of those, like God can do so many things and putting,
00:19:43
NextGen Matters
certain people in the position of be with others. That's like kind of a mini se like segment of that. yeah it It's the power of those godly friendships yeah that we need to champion in Pseudermistry is the organic where they just are hanging out together. And that's why I'm like, yes, awesome. And as it pops, I was so excited after work. You guys got to close it up. It's like late, it's like 10ish, 11. Get a text, Dad, can I go out with with them and we play volleyball at the universities? Yeah. It was summer, so the university students turned around, and can I go play volleyball under the lights, in the sand, until, like, whatever. And I'm like, as a dad, I'm thinking, yes, go have fun, because I knew these were, like, A-lister godly students. yeah And I was all thankful yes that you felt not only, like, you wanted to hang out with them, and then didn't even come back and you say, hey, we were doing some worship.
00:20:33
NextGen Matters
And then your heart, you weren't even there yet, yeah but you were being exposed to authentic worship. Yeah, it's that cliche bumper sticker of like, show me your friends, I'll show you your future. And yeah I believe that's where God really started. orchestraing So after that, though, I was still in this serious relationship for years since like beginning of high school. And I knew God was starting to like, lead me into just like following him. And I kind of knew I was at a crossroads of, hey, this is where I'm going
Commitment to Faith and Ministry
00:21:03
NextGen Matters
to go. I want to follow Jesus.
00:21:06
NextGen Matters
do you want to go there with me? mean This was me talking to the the girl i I'd been dating for all those years. And simply it was a no. And I remember God put me in that position to say, you will either continue to follow the world, which also had her and all the things in it, or you will turn and follow me.
00:21:25
NextGen Matters
And I just remember like at that crossroads, I said, all right, Lord, like, I don't know what this looks like. I'm stepping out in faith. This is an act of obedience, really for the first time in my life, honestly.
00:21:36
NextGen Matters
And I just said, okay, I'm going to surrender this and the plans I thought that I had for my own self. And I'll say yes to you. And so all of a sudden, like I had lost my best friend. I had lost a relationship I'd been in for about five years at that point in time, which as a 14 to 18, 19 year old, I mean, that's literally like, that's a ton of your life, right? That's almost like a fourth, fifth of your life. And then also within that, not to get too deep into the weeds, but again, just like honestly, all these domes just started falling on a line of Lord gave my attention. I loved to work out and that was my passion. But again, it was misplaced worship. And so my whole source of identity and image was placed into that. And i started, well, first of all, you were jacked.
00:22:22
NextGen Matters
I mean, you were ripped. And this is now by your sophomore year at Liberty. Yeah. Living at home your first two years. Yeah. That was your choice. You would do it live on campus. We said, we'll pay for you to get on campus.
00:22:33
NextGen Matters
create I wanted him in that environment of godly you know peers. But you were known around campus because I'd have youth men students go, oh, Ryan's your son. He has that 97 Jeep. He has the long, flowing blonde hair called him Ryan the Lion. And he he was just ripped. And he's always see him working out. And they were telling me old guys older than you. that people will come to you and you kind of like coach them.
00:22:55
NextGen Matters
you You'd help them with reps and stuff. And so Ryan was, even though he was living at home, you know, doing the campus life, if you will, you were very popular. I mean, my my students, again, a year older than him, two years older than him, were like, man people like lean into him and,
00:23:12
NextGen Matters
Yeah, I was all going on. So so totally was your dad even socially. That's how you were known. Yeah, at that point in time, I was working out. I was working at a local health store. And that was just like, my whole life was working out. That was my passion. But I remembered suddenly, I started getting these really like severe heart palpitations. And We went to the ER, we got some echocardiogram, like all these things done and did not know what was going on with me.
00:23:39
NextGen Matters
And looking back now, like praise God, nothing was physically wrong with me, but I know without shadow of doubt, like God intervened in my own heart physically to stop me from working out for about two weeks. And after those two weeks of when all that was going on, i really took a step back. i was like,
00:24:00
NextGen Matters
okay, God, you are really physically getting my attention. You've gotten my attention with the external, with the internal of the relationships, and now physically in the internal. Because you were working out twice a day.
00:24:12
NextGen Matters
Yeah, I was skipping classes. I had a 1.6 GPA. Oh, now you tell me that. I was... i knew the GPA, but I didn't know the skipping class. I'd skip some morning classes. I'd work out in the morning, and I'd work out again either right before or right after my shift at night.
00:24:28
NextGen Matters
I was failing out of college. I mean, i like literally, I had a... Outside of working out, I was very apathetic and so in in all areas of my life.
00:24:39
NextGen Matters
and So yeah yeah, that was kind of the turning point. And that all happened. And was like, okay, God, what are you going to do? And then that was that summer where doors opened for me to move like onto campus. yeah Going into your junior year. Going into junior year. Did not know what I was doing with my life yet, honestly. i don't even know what I was going to do. But went on to campus, took that step of faith, lived on campus, I should say. And then that's when God really got a hold of my heart. Yes. Of that semester. So you had that moment in your year about 16 when you came to me and you said you wanted to talk salvation. And there was that...
00:25:21
NextGen Matters
that time where i so I saw a external surrender of rap true repentance of things that dad and son knew dad or new son was going through and a true repentance of those sins and really wanting salvation.
00:25:38
NextGen Matters
And yet for the next number of years, I'd never saw any evidence or fruit of salvation. I got to the point into your college years where I'm like to my own wife saying, babe, I don't know if Ryan really is saved because I'm just not seeing anything for Jesus. There's he's maybe he's not doing the crazy stuff, but what is he doing for Jesus?
00:25:56
NextGen Matters
And that's where I look at this of Hebrews 11, 6, Ryan, that when you seek God, God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him. So you were, as we've talked over the years many times about this, you were technically, if you will, truly not even in Christ yet, but you were pursuing God and God was pursuing you because as you were pursuing him, Hebrews 11, 6, he is rewarding you with that more faith of, hey, I am here. I'm just waiting for you. Mm-hmm. So your junior year, yeah I remember I'll never forget this one. in Your junior year, the girl is gone.
00:26:33
NextGen Matters
Working out is still there, but it's I noticed the flip. You were you were surrendering that. Yes, it wasn't even then it wasn't as much your identity. And I saw this calmness beginning to take place in you.
00:26:46
NextGen Matters
And now where we live to his campus was seven miles away. So he is my joke on as he came home for Christmas, you know, for Thanksgiving break, all seven miles, you know, to come home. And he had a great one-on-two, Ryan to Jan and I, to Mom and I, conversation. And it's there you said to us, in the dorm, on my own, I truly gave my life over to Christ.
00:27:07
NextGen Matters
And honestly, like i don't even i don't even remember the lead up to that like there was no specific big event there was no specific big conference or camp that i was at was truly i had been surrounded by just a ton of guys who love jesus they love to have fun i had never seen people have joy like that right to where i also weren't like oh they're weird and they're yeah like those type of christian because that's just kind of you know i was that person as a adolescent who was like you can't
00:27:44
NextGen Matters
have fun and smile, but then also love Jesus. And I, but I saw those so evident, you know, in, in college when I moved on. And that was attracting you to the gospel then. Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:53
NextGen Matters
It was what you saw in them. Yeah. I mean, it was like the second for the spirit. was like, wow, this is actually is like joy. It's, it's evident and it's there. And I want in on that. Yes. so cool. So yeah, that's where that all began to shift.
00:28:05
NextGen Matters
and And then i'm going to speed it up. Because we're going to have Ryan on a lot more so we can get a lot more of what God's done in his life. But it was a year later, your senior year, when you texted mom and I and you said, hey, I'm heading down to the Atlanta area.
00:28:22
NextGen Matters
My buddy is from Peachtree City, you know home of of Louis Giglio and Passion City Church. And they're doing a youth rally. We're going to a road trip. And I was like, cool, go for it. You know, have fun.
00:28:32
NextGen Matters
And we get on our, everyone, every family has a text thread. You know, we had the family text thread going on and we get this picture of Ryan up on this stage. He goes, guess who's the hype guy? Now he's gone through at that point, like three or four majors and sometimes repeats in the same majors as a senior, still not knowing what he's going to do. yeah Now as me, as a, as Dr. Brown, you know as a professor, I'm thinking, dude, you better get this together. I said, dad, I'm thinking you better get this together. mean, for context, context is important. I was, I was on academic probation. Yes. During that. I didn't say that. no i don't say um'm
00:29:06
NextGen Matters
I'm open as a book. Love is covering that multitude of sin, but go ahead.
00:29:14
NextGen Matters
I, uh, wow. Yeah, we could go through multiple different lessons. But I like almost kicked out of school, had to meet with plentiful, like, write letters, advisors, yeah, begging, bag almost lost. Yeah. Ton of different things. And, uh, yeah, at that point i was like, God, uh, thought I wanted to maybe be, you know,
00:29:34
NextGen Matters
and exercise science thought i wanted to do marketing that i wanted to own a lawn care business i mean truly or yeah i mean you know it's like when you're not focused on the lord you're not focused at all and that was evident in that time of like yeah but i got the i received the calling to minister i just remember going down there yeah and i felt the tug had no idea why yeah honestly it wasn't even because all my friends were going i was like i just i feel in my spirit i have to go there and i don't know why and We get there. So back to that picture. Yeah. Because I then, might my i I shot right back, oh, I think someone's going to change his major. i don't know if you caught that or not.
00:30:10
NextGen Matters
It was a wink, wink for me without without while without you seeing me a wink. Because you were, I think was still sports management or something like or criminal justice. And you're like, look who's the hype guy. and there's this picture of you on the stage. And I can tell you're digging it. And I go, oh, I think someone's to change their major. In other words, I was floating it, okay? I'll be honest. I was floating it.
00:30:30
NextGen Matters
And it was then, a few weeks later, he came home Christmas break and you said, hey, let's talk, Mom and and I. And it was so beautiful, Ron. You said, I want to call the leadership.
00:30:43
NextGen Matters
And that's something, remember, I got you a John Maxwell book on leadership for kids, for high schoolers, back in your high school days. You one on the shelf. but I saw leadership in you. And when you worked at Chick-fil-A, I've said, you're taking leadership roles and your different jobs are on here in Lynchburg.
00:30:59
NextGen Matters
I saw you be almost like Joseph, you know, since where I saw you being elevated at these two different jobs that you and I both know you had, that i I was seeing you elevated to leadership.
00:31:10
NextGen Matters
So when you said, I know God's calling me to leadership. And then you looked at me and go, specifically youth ministry. yeah And I said, I'm gonna put my Doc Brown hat on.
00:31:21
NextGen Matters
Let me look through how academically, what classes you'd have to take so we can get you through. yeah I don't want to miss. Yeah. I don't want to miss this moment. I remember receiving the calling to ministry. And when like God spoke into my heart said, Hey, this is what I've created you to do. Uh, it actually wasn't on the moment when I was on the stage, it was actually like right when we walked into those church doors.
00:31:47
NextGen Matters
and immediately we, it was like five of us friends. We all walked in and there was probably 10, 12 other people who were there already. Yeah. who had just gotten there because got in late from traveling.
00:31:59
NextGen Matters
And they basically were like, hey, this is what we need to get done. And immediately, like me and a couple others, we just started setting up all the chairs. And it was in the setup of chairs and all the tables. And the environment was starting to kind of like come to fruition, come to life.
00:32:14
NextGen Matters
i was like, yeah, this is it. And so it was actually like in the back door behind the scene well of when God – got my attention and when i really received that call and yeah i think that's like a lesson i always have to remind myself and that was something definitely in my early twenty s and starting out in ministry was like hey when you think you're too big for the behind the scenes work then yep like that's where you've let pride take the front seat and and so taking that approach of like all right where is a chair i can set up where is where is a piece of trash that i can pick up and not ever being above those things and keeping the posture in humility for me i think that's always a cool reminder to reflect and remember like back on is it was literally in the setting up of chairs that god placed that calling in my life so wow
00:33:08
NextGen Matters
I'm learning
Growth in Youth Ministry
00:33:08
NextGen Matters
stuff today. That's pretty cool. I really am. So you've been doing youth ministry now. Oh, and by the way, you had yeah had a year and a half left, so did the super senior year. yep And in that time, let's not go down the Annie road, his beautiful wife, but that's that was her home church. And so the the love began during that same time. God began bringing his future wife.
00:33:29
NextGen Matters
Literally, he physically her. Physically met met my now wife and received the calling ministry all in the same 20 minutes. Wow. And I won't go into the weeds because we don't have the time. But like me saying – There's a lot of weeds today. There's a lot of weeds. We're like some Roundup distributors right now though Sponsor us, Roundup.
00:33:48
NextGen Matters
Those – Like that act of yes, that obedience of yes to go physically there, it actually required me to surrender a ton. Yes.
00:34:02
NextGen Matters
and lay on the line and actually then have to like be removed from so it was just in that act of yes that then the lord said hey you were in a good thing you were in something that was a step of obedience but i have something new and greater and deeper for you and your relationship with me and a future relationship if you just say yes and so like it was in that moment of walking in uprightness right like psalm 84 verses i think it's 11 through 14 was like the lord shows and but puts his favor on you and honors those who walk in an upright manner and with integrity and so like it was a step of saying yes though i was already in a good season i had to lay that good season and position even down to step into something greater that the lord had in store
00:34:52
NextGen Matters
Eight years now you've been serving full-time since graduation and what was cool is I had you in a number of youth ministry classes. and And I let people know this is my son. he I'm not treating him any, I'm not elevating him higher.
00:35:06
NextGen Matters
I'm not also going to like dehumanize you either. In other words, he is a student. The fact that I'm his dad does not change. But when it comes to like grading, even my GA's did his grading. I just want to be careful on that, that I wasn't used doing the nepotism road. But I also wasn't going to punish you for being my son either, that you're just a man who loves God and becoming a future youth worker. And and you graduated. You and Andy both have now been serving together for these number of years.
00:35:33
NextGen Matters
On the quick, what breaks your heart, what you see in youth ministry and or in students, and then what fills your heart? Yes. Honestly, they go hand in hand. So I'll take it from the kind of the lane of students specifically.
00:35:51
NextGen Matters
Honestly, what what breaks my heart is those who don't step into the power of God's grace. And like, what I mean by that is you see a lot of students who have said yes to a portion of the grace of God.
00:36:07
NextGen Matters
mean, they said yes to salvation, but they're then not letting grace activate and be the like leader and guide for their life. And, and,
00:36:19
NextGen Matters
like where to direct them and how to operate and how to walk and how to talk and how do you act, right? Like, cause grace is not just the saving and forgiving of your sins, but then it's like the power to free you from your sins and to give you the fight against sin. I think Titus two is literally my favorite passage. It's, Titus 2 verse 11 says, for the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people. So yes, grace is to bring salvation all people. But then in verse 12, it says, it trains you to renounce ungodliness, worldly passions, to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives while we all wait for the blessed appearance of our Lord Savior Jesus. So it's you know it's both of the saving and the freeing and fighting of, and you have to step into the power of grace. So I see so many students who say,
00:37:08
NextGen Matters
And this like it goes into so many different forms and fashions. It's like why we see students want to rededicate every week. Why we want to see like students say, oh, man, I did this. And now, like, what happens next? Am I truly saved? It's like because we haven't seen them take ownership and really step into the authority of the power of God's grace. So that is what breaks my heart.
00:37:28
NextGen Matters
And again, it goes hand in hand. Where I celebrate the wins and victory in students' lives is where they are. They have stepped into the power of grace. And what that looks like is discipleship. And it's the continual like, hey, I you know i deny my flesh, deny myself. I pick up my cross. and daily Daily. Every day. yeah And I follow Jesus. And that, yeah. So they they kind of go hand in hand, honestly. Okay.
00:37:56
NextGen Matters
So listener, I'm not knowing your role, at whether it's children's ministry, youth, or young adult ministries, but whatever role you play, if it's full-time, part-time, or you're a volunteer.
Engaging Resistant Students
00:38:07
NextGen Matters
I've done all of those, by the way.
00:38:10
NextGen Matters
We all know we have Ryan's in our ministry. In other words, we have students. who have good homes. They maybe even have deeply spiritual homes. And yet, these are students who, for whatever reason, just what Ryan said, are resisting the grace of God.
00:38:24
NextGen Matters
They're resisting the calling of God to salvation, like you read in Titus 2. know that That salvation is available and open. Come, come, come unto me, Jesus said. But they're not. So on the brief, can you encourage our listener how they can be patient with the Ryans when you are in 8th, 9th, 10th grade? Because our listeners have those.
00:38:43
NextGen Matters
And then how can you not only be patient, but still intentional to minister to them when they're resisting? i just take a moment of like reflection.
00:38:56
NextGen Matters
of what others did for me and then what that maybe looks like for someone else. i still remember to this day showing up to the middle school ministry where I was slightly attending. I mean, I was i was there, but was I actually really there?
00:39:16
NextGen Matters
That's, you know, for forgot to judge, I guess. but I call it voting with your feet and voting with your face. Yes. But I remember no matter what, like I would show up and Jeremy, the middle school pastor would ask, Hey, how are your Yankees doing? Cause he knew I liked the Yankees and that was a connecting point to for him. And honestly, I like, I give him so much grace. Like he did not know much more about me other than that. Cause I didn't ever open the door for him to know more than that. Right.
00:39:47
NextGen Matters
But he he took a step of faith in a way that he knew. his He was very intentional with you. Yes, there was still a point of connection. He knew I wasn't going to sign up for any sort of event. He knew I wasn't going to come to anything outside of when my parents forced me to be there. But...
00:40:03
NextGen Matters
he still asked me an intentional question about me and something i cared about ye and i think that's really powerful for a youth or any next-gen leader just to do that and then not pick favorites and say hey i know this person's gonna sign up so i'm gonna give all of my conversation to them yeah so he he did that for me i think of the small group leaders i had k christian that was specifically in middle school and then uh I think I had Mark for a little bit in middle school. And then i had Mike in high school. And man like Steve mostly. Yep, Steve and I. I reflect on those guys. and And no matter how I showed up on those Wednesday nights, they still like loved on me. yeah
00:40:41
NextGen Matters
And so it's like the heart of 1 Corinthians 3, 6 through 8, where it says, like I have planted, Apollo's watered, but God, he gives the increase. And so for me, it's to take...
00:40:52
NextGen Matters
That posture, of what I take now, learning from those guys, what I take and maybe what I would then like give to you is that is truly the god job God has given us is to just be there for the students to plant when the door is open and God gives you.
00:41:12
NextGen Matters
the seed in your hand it says okay now drop the seed and then someone else may water that seed and then god's going to give the increase and you have to give that over to lord and you might see that seed be watered and truly come to fruition within the context of a year and it is still you but you may see it you know not for like 10 years and like my mother your grandmother this side of eternity she didn't see it She prayed for you every day.
00:41:43
NextGen Matters
She passed away when you were early in middle school. So she never saw the Ryan that I now see. Yeah. And I think simultaneously. But her prayers have been answered. Yeah. It's a it's a submission of obedience.
00:41:57
NextGen Matters
to say, yes, I'm going to continue to invest in this person. But also for me, it's a laying down and a stripping down of pride to say it's okay if maybe it wasn't under our quote unquote ministry yes that they got saved. And I think there's so much surrender and humility that has to go in to continue to be faithful. And i think that's why you see leaders who are humble and faithful and obedient to continue to pour out and invest in those students who maybe not love you back.
00:42:26
NextGen Matters
They have to continue to say, Hey, I will be a humble leader. And, we're only in it for the numbers and how many we can report that students got saved and baptized to our direct supervisor like you aren't going to love those who don't love you back because you're not going to see that quote unquote fruit right away yeah so that's all the transactional stuff i hit so hard last episode was do we love them transactionally which isn't real love or do you love them unconditionally one thing that really blessed me too was names you mentioned other than pastor jeremy the names you mentioned all of them were actually in my youth classes so i was partnering as a parent with
00:43:07
NextGen Matters
half my age youth workers who are highly investing in my own son.
Leadership and Ministry Systems
00:43:11
NextGen Matters
Both of us, both parties, a parent, me, youth workers, these college guys, who are praying over you and pursuing you. And I was so glad to have a team of of godly people that were surrounding my son. We're gonna wrap this up. At the end of the day,
00:43:29
NextGen Matters
Stories like Ryan's reminds us that why this work matters, what we do, what you do, what I do, why it matters so deeply, because behind every resistant student is a heart God is still pursuing.
00:43:46
NextGen Matters
And behind every healthy pursuit is a leader who's refusing to give up. And that's why we say it often and we mean it every time spiritually healthy students grow out of spiritually healthy systems and those systems rise or fall based on the health of the leaders who shape them.
00:44:05
NextGen Matters
So as you keep showing up with patience, intentionality, and the hope of the gospel, remember this, that God is still writing the story in your student's life that is bigger than anything you're seeing today.
00:44:20
NextGen Matters
And your faithfulness, I'm talking your steady faithfulness, grace-filled presence is part of what he's going to use to bring that story to life. Ryan, I'm going ask you to give us the call to action.
00:44:35
NextGen Matters
You already have kind of, but in one or two sentences. Yeah, this is something I kind of have to like remind and tell myself every Wednesday night and our leaders too, is, hey, go find...
00:44:49
NextGen Matters
and talk to the one student who you wouldn't have normally talked to like tonight, unless you tell yourself to, because we naturally drift and gravitate towards those who we just always cut up with and we give the fist bump. And so this week, my encouragement to you and to myself,
00:45:07
NextGen Matters
is, hey, go find that one student who it's like almost uncomfortable to talk to. Yeah. And just break that barrier and just watch the Lord. Awesome. Plant some seeds through it. Amen.
00:45:18
NextGen Matters
I was thinking two years ago when I met, I won't say the name here, but one of our then ninth graders, I sat next to this weekend. Mm-hmm. Dude has an incredible voice.
00:45:29
NextGen Matters
His worship was passionate. Here's the guy a year or two years ago that wouldn't talk to anybody. And seeing him now with his boys, and he did the the spoken word hip-hop rap, if you want to call it, in our in our talent show, talent no talent show.
00:45:46
NextGen Matters
The Nuts of Talent show. And you saw him shining, being outspoken, being and his worship. I'm like, that's the same young man that didn't really connect with anybody. And my heart always goes out to the one who's by herself, by himself. So I thank you for that word.
00:46:04
NextGen Matters
So have you, by the way, as we kind of do now bring this to a close, so thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much for jumping on the wagon with us and listening to the Next Gen Matters podcast. Remember that if today has ministered to you, love to get the emails. My email is in the show notes, richandnextgenmatters.com. I'd love to hear from you.
00:46:23
NextGen Matters
Also, leave a comment in the podcast and and send it to a friend. And have you subscribed to our podcast? If not, please do so. Whether it's Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or even YouTube, or all the above, please make sure to subscribe to it so you can get those notifications right away. And again, be so kind of leave a review.
00:46:43
NextGen Matters
And if you're not yet getting the Next Gen Matters Thursday to email, please get that. goes out every Thursday morning. And the link to how to get that is also in the show notes. So thank you so much for joining myself and Ryan on the Next Gen Matters podcast. Until next time, your leadership matters because your ministry matters because the gospel matters.
00:47:06
NextGen Matters
Thanks, Ryan. All right. Thank you. We'll see you all next episode.