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#15: The Subtle Trap of Ministry Comparison
46 Plays1 month ago
Episode Overview
Comparison is one of the most exhausting and unspoken pressures in ministry. In this father–son conversation, Rich and Ryan Brown unpack how comparison sneaks into our leadership—through social media, ministry highlight reels, church metrics, and even well‑meaning comments from others. Together they explore the roots of comparison, the ways it can be both healthy and destructive, and how ministry leaders can approach it with a godly, grounded perspective and can guard their hearts while celebrating others and staying faithful to their unique calling.
This episode invites leaders to slow down, name the pressure, and remember that God never asked us to run someone else’s race. He called us to be faithful with the people, gifts, and opportunities He has entrusted to us—right where we are.
Key Themes
- What Comparison Looks Like in Ministry
- Why Comparison Is So Common
- Healthy Comparison
- Unhealthy Comparison
- Biblical Patterns of Comparison
Resources Mentioned
• NextGen Matters – https://www.nextgenmatters.com/
• The Bible (Scripture references in order: Genesis 4; Romans 12; 1 Corinthians 11:1; John 21)
Links
• Email for Rich Brown (NGM): rich@nextgenmatters.com
• Subscribe for NGM Thursday Tools email
• Watch this episode on YouTube
Timestamps
• 00:00–03:30 – The pressure of comparison in ministry leadership
• 03:30–08:30 – Defining comparison and generational perspectives
• 08:30–15:30 – Healthy vs. unhealthy comparison and biblical foundations
• 15:30–22:30 – The root of comparison: envy, coveting, and insecurity
• 22:30–29:30 – Social media, metrics, and the hidden cost of comparison
• 29:30–34:30 – Calling vs. competence: staying in your lane
• 34:30–39:07 – Practical action steps: celebrate others, celebrate your wins, and remain faithful
Recommended
Transcript
The Foundation of Spiritually Healthy Ministries
00:00:01
NextGen Matters
For those of us serving in NextGen Ministries, here's what we have learned. Spiritually healthy students come from spiritually healthy ministry environments. And these environments only come through spirit-filled, spiritually healthy student ministry
Empowering NextGen Leaders with Clarity
00:00:16
NextGen Matters
leaders. And that's why NextGen Matters is all about relationally empowering ministry leaders to impact the next generation. Hey friend, welcome again to the Next Gen Matters podcast. This is episode
Challenges in Ministry Leadership
00:00:30
NextGen Matters
15. I'm in the house here with my son, Ryan Brown. Yes. Hello.
00:00:33
NextGen Matters
And this show, Ryan, is all about helping ministry leaders who are seeking to move beyond overwhelm and move into leading with clarity, confidence, and consistency.
The Quiet Pressure of Comparison in Ministry
00:00:43
NextGen Matters
So lately I've been thinking about that quiet pressure that so many of us feel in ministry.
00:00:51
NextGen Matters
And you and i been talking about this. It's the kind of pressure that makes us want to measure up to other people, keep up with other people, and even prove our own sense of work and even worth that what we do really matters.
00:01:06
NextGen Matters
So it's not something we typically say out loud. Quite honestly, it's very embarrassing to admit it. Hey, I'm struggling with comparison. But it's always kind of lurking at us. And i kind of use this word picture, the idea there of Sully from Monster Zinc, you know, the big scary furry blue furry monster that really isn't that scary. yeah But it seems to be behind us. And that is the idea of comparison.
00:01:32
NextGen Matters
Honestly, comparison is probably one of, if not the biggest and most exhausting part of ministry pressure. So that's what we're talking about today. Comparison seems to show up in the most random times and even random places. You know, it's when you're scrolling through our social media.
00:01:51
NextGen Matters
It's when we see other people's ministry highlight reels. It's when we hear about their our friends growing ministry. And then we see somebody else get that opportunity that we longed for. They got to speak at the conference. They didn't ask me.
00:02:06
NextGen Matters
or even when your own hard work goes unnoticed, unspoken, and even unseen. the Leadership in your own church don't even acknowledge it. And you feel like, man, I'm just not i'm not cutting it. you know It's subtle, but yet it's powerful.
00:02:24
NextGen Matters
yeah And if we're not careful, comparison left unchecked can quietly destroy not only ourselves, but it can destroy our even our
A Godly Approach to Comparison
00:02:37
NextGen Matters
calling. It can destroy the peers around us.
00:02:41
NextGen Matters
And even it can begin to work in the middle of our relationship with the one, the Lord Jesus, who called us to do his. Ministry. So, Ryan, today we're going have this conversation. We're going looking into this topic, which eats at so many of us who are in ministry.
00:02:58
NextGen Matters
By the end of this conversation and the end of this episode, I want to see that we have covered. We're going to look into like the the root of comparison. What are some of the root root or roots of comparison?
00:03:10
NextGen Matters
Can comparison actually be positive? Are there some negativity you know components to comparisons, destructive components? And then to leave our listener thinking about, is there a godly way to approach this blue fuzzy monster? So Ryan, I got a question.
00:03:30
NextGen Matters
What is comparison in ministry? Let's kind of define it. What is comparison in ministry? Yeah, I mean, i just, again, I think it's to reiterate what you said, it's so essential that we cover and talk about this topic because this is something that you don't talk about enough in a classroom or in seminary or you just have to get into the field and into the experience of being in a church. Be like, wow, first day in, I'm already being compared to my predecessor. I'm already being compared to what they've done in the past. And that's in a journey and an adventure you have to go on.
00:04:01
NextGen Matters
It's inevitable and you have to figure it out. And so I'm glad that we're having this conversation to just, just to help maybe encourage someone out there. That's like, man, I'm always being compared to. So what is comparison, right? It's just the measuring of you to someone else, like at the heart of it, it's saying, Hey, they did this.
00:04:21
NextGen Matters
So I have to do this or they went here. I have to go there. And that's where I think we trap ourselves in the comparison or others. People put comparison onto us. They project onto us say, did you know,
00:04:39
NextGen Matters
what the guy before you did in a good way. Yeah, it did well. Yeah. And that now means and it puts this unhealthy pressure and burden on you to feel that you're being fueled by comparison.
00:04:56
NextGen Matters
and then that leads into an unhealthy posture and position of ministry. And I know we're going cover there is a healthiness and a righteous side and a holy side to comparison, but also like anything else.
00:05:08
NextGen Matters
in the the world, like the enemy can distort and twist it. And so I think for us, it's how do we view and handle comparison, which we're going obviously unpack here.
00:05:19
NextGen Matters
Yeah, we we come at it from two different generations. Obviously, you just hit 30. I just hit another digit in the 60s yesterday at the time of this recording.
00:05:29
NextGen Matters
And and yet, while I say that, I think your generation in leadership has you've you've grown up in this social media presence. There is this there is this constant berating or or hitting you in the face with comparisons all around. yeah And yet, as I shared with you just at at our house back a month ago talking about this, I said, son, I grew up with this. yeah so my My dad is a pastor, had it.
00:06:01
NextGen Matters
And i'm I'm a child you know of a preacher. And i'm I'm growing up seeing back then it wasn't social media, it wasn't Instagram. It was those newsletters that would come via, it's called the mail, snail mail, USPS. And my dad, I'd be in his office hanging out with dad after after school.
00:06:18
NextGen Matters
And he's going through these newspapers that he get from these, you know, I grew Baptist. So these Baptist and new newspapers that were sent out. And this is what I saw. As a teenager, I would see, open it up, and I would see half-page ads on, I'm just making these up, but this is the concept of what I see. Florida's fastest-growing Sunday school, or Virginia's largest, this is the 1970s, bus ministry.
00:06:43
NextGen Matters
And there was this constant, hey, we got game, we're the biggest, we're the best, you know we're the man. And I i consistently were seeing, like look at us, look at us, look at me, look at me.
00:06:53
NextGen Matters
I actually said, I was like 10th grade and i looked at my dad, he was at his desk and I go, dad, why do we keep ready why we keep comparing ourselves to each other? Because I even said, I thought we were on the same team.
00:07:03
NextGen Matters
And that's the culture that my dad as a young pastor, when he was in his 30s, so really at your age right now, when he stepped into pastoring as a lead pastor, that's the culture that was thrown on him in the 1970s. The church growth movement, while that's amazing because the gospel did spread, the saturation of the gospel to our communities was a powerful thing. It's obviously wonderful.
00:07:26
NextGen Matters
But with that, a lot of ego got involved. And I grew up watching the ego side. Yeah. Well, and it's, it's in the heart of how the recipient and in the person who's like giving that out in those newsletters and on the social media, like where's the heart posture in the posting of that and in the, like, is it in a pure and healthy and Hey, let's celebrate ultimately what almighty God has done. Or is it in the, Hey, see what I did. Right. And then also the, the like receiver of that and the person who sees it, it's,
00:07:57
NextGen Matters
hey, can I celebrate with them and for them and what God is doing? Or, i don't know, I'm kind of now getting jealous. And so you really have to keep the art and the heart of comparison in check with the Holy Spirit, obviously. And I know you brought the verse to mind earlier. It's Romans 12, you know, verses 15, rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep. And it's that same mindset of, hey, when someone else is rejoicing in the fact that, man, at at winter retreat, we had 10 salvations, or hey, at summer camp, we had
00:08:28
NextGen Matters
13 then students get baptized. Like, are we going to then celebrate with our co-labor or are we going to be jealous of what happened? Right. And I think just for us as ministry leaders, we have to be healthy in our first relationship with Christ to then say, hey, I get to now celebrate with those who are doing ministry.
00:08:42
NextGen Matters
And as you watch, listen to this, I want you to realize this is very intentional. This topic coming off of last episode with Cody talking about, you said the word co-labor, of collaborating and making sure we are all on the same team in ministry. We're on Team Jesus. We're doing kingdom work, not small kingdom, but big kingdom work. yeah And that's why, Ryan, we chose this topic to really follow up last week, because in the middle of now working with other churches in your area or other Christian organizations, you do look across the table, you do look across the city, and you do look across your social
Healthy vs. Unhealthy Comparison
00:09:16
NextGen Matters
media feed, nigga.
00:09:18
NextGen Matters
So. Yeah. Well, let's let's unpack this. So we have comparison that can be healthy and comparison that can be unhealthy. So what are some ways of how comparison can actually be healthy?
00:09:31
NextGen Matters
I think one thing is is that process with that. is, well, why do I read books? Because I want to learn. Why do I ask another colleague or peer in ministry what they're doing? Because I really want to learn. yeah I'd be quick to listen and slow to speak. So I want to listen to them. Like, what is God doing? Because I can, as a professional, I can learn better ways to be more effective in ministry. So that's one of the healthy sides or components of of a so a positive sense of comparison that
00:10:04
NextGen Matters
to say, how can I learn from them? Now, is that truly comparison? Maybe so, maybe not, but still, when I look to someone else, how can I learn from them? How can I gain insights?
00:10:16
NextGen Matters
And another thing is what you just said is the Romans 12, beautiful principle that that Paul lays out. when we When we see someone down and forlorn, we kind of come alongside, we weep with those who weep, we show compassion.
00:10:29
NextGen Matters
I think we do that easier than the other part of that verse where Paul also says to rejoice to those who rejoice when a colleague or a peer, like you said, they have a ministry win. And we're just we're crazy struggling right now in our church. Our church is flatlined. I have served in churches where we're actually declining.
00:10:48
NextGen Matters
In attendance. a Matter of fact, my first couple of churches I had to take I was the financial budget you know casualty because of churches that were completely declining in in overall attendance. So I understand. And I was really struggling with that, as I shared with you personally, like a month ago. We talking about this topic because.
00:11:08
NextGen Matters
when i started out in the mid 80s the comparison thing in christian christian and christianity was still huge and i was kind of over that part of like i thought that's so wrong but yet what i was dealing with was the deep internal side of now i don't measure up so when i would look to my friends or other ministry leaders i had to see when they're doing well i needed to step into rejoicing with them and that's one of the positives of that yeah no that's great and i think what do you what do you think yeah i mean this is kind of was like processing earlier is you know this is a gift comparison is a gift that god has then given everyone but just like from
00:11:48
NextGen Matters
creation to then fall, the enemy wants to distort and twist and confuse and bring chaos into everything. And we see sin from comparison. We also see a holy and righteous and beautiful part of it. And I think the beauty in comparing in a good way and in a holy way is to say, hey, I want to be maybe held accountable or I want to step into sanctification. I want to step into transformation and and grow in leadership and grow in my development and grow in the giftings and callings that God has bestowed and put upon me as a leader. And and we can do that in and a healthy minded way with other like minded people if our relationship with Christ is in check and if we are then in check with our relationship with that also like other person. But a way the enemy can obviously distort and twist that is to then say, hey, actually,
00:12:37
NextGen Matters
they are your enemy or, Hey, actually, did you know God gave them that, but God is withholding this from you. And it's almost that twist in Genesis three of like, did God really say, or did God really mean you could go into ministry if it only means leading five students instead of five? Oh yeah. And you can, you can really be like twisted in that. And that's,
00:12:58
NextGen Matters
At the at the root of comparison, it's what we just said, is's like you have to be grounded a obviously in the word of God and in your identity of who God has called you to be. Yes. First off, the child of the most high. Right. And then from that is like if he gives you the calling into ministry,
00:13:16
NextGen Matters
in whatever way that looks like stay at home mom in next gen ministry on set like whatever the ministry is you have a ministry or not in the church or not but like in the calling that god has given you in the giftings you then have to exercise and use those in a way that are for his glory and your good and you're doing it in a in a checked holy and righteous way But at the root of comparison, it's when we are like not operating in those gifts. And when we kind of neglect kind of a passage I always reflect on, especially when I'm like like commissioning our way youth team is, I think I read it last week, so I won't read it all again, but it's Romans 12, three through eight. And it's just saying, hey, every single one of you has a specific gifting and calling and and something that the person to my left in the circle, in the rally, right? Like,
00:14:07
NextGen Matters
they can do what I cannot do. But you're talking about pregame. yeah pregaing prayer and all that Yeah. Yeah. It's like, hey, I need to celebrate what the the leader to my right, how they can pray in a way that I can't. And hey, they can teach in a way I can. And hey, they can lead and do these things. And we need to celebrate and champion that. And so we just have to be reminded of every single one of us has been given gifts. And when we come together in unity and in collaboration, it's actually a really beautiful thing to see comparison in that light, be healthy to almost be held to a higher standard. And as you referenced a little bit earlier, when we were just talking like the leadership lid from, you know, John Maxwell, like to watch that leadership lid, not be satisfied with where we once were 10 years ago. Like, I know I can speak into this to say because of the grace of God to to continue to grow like second Peter three eight. like, hey, continue to grow in the grace and the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus. Like if we continue to grow in the grace of Almighty God, then that should not mean we are the same leader in person we were 10 years ago, 20 years ago. Right. So we should continue to grow. Like, don't use comparison then as a crutch to not grow.
00:15:18
NextGen Matters
But. We should do it in in a healthy way. So yeah we see the healthiness. Yeah, i got a question for you. Yeah. Okay. Root. What would you say is the root of comparison?
00:15:29
NextGen Matters
It's envying one another. It's envying someone else. it in In the unhealthy manner right of the root. It's to say, hey I want what they have or I deserve. So in a sense, it's coveting. Correct.
00:15:43
NextGen Matters
Correct. Sounds like one of the 10 commandments. Yeah, the 10th command, do not covet. And it's a dangerous place to be. And it's somewhere I've been. neighbor's ministry. It's somewhere I have been. Oh, yeah.
00:15:53
NextGen Matters
I mean, I think we all have been there if we were honest with ourselves, whether in a big scale way or a lower scale way, but we've all been there. And that's where we have to like address and yeah talk about these things. I think about, let's go back to Genesis. I mean, yo, you start taking like a linear look from Genesis through scripture. Yeah.
00:16:11
NextGen Matters
You know the first, I said this in the newsletter this last week, the first act of violence yeah was one brother versus another brother who killed him. yeah murdered him, his own brother, because of envy, because, oh, God was not pleased with my offering, my sacrifice. Therefore, I was comparing God's even response of blessing to him and to me. And I'm ticked off and I'm taking him out. yeah So there you go. And you think through Joseph. Dude, you start going through, I mean, oh my goodness, you go right through, I think in King Saul to a young David, early 20-something, who was his son-in-law. Yeah.
00:16:48
NextGen Matters
Michelle being the the prize to the trophy wife, you know, of killing Goliath. Saul had slain his thousands. David's his ten thousands because Saul was reading his own, you know. yeahp He's reading his own Instagram feed. He's like, I guess I don't measure up. And you go right through, even through the prophets. And then I get into the twelve. They're constantly yinging it with each other. That's great for their bickering. you know they're Even to the, this is what kills me. Well, it doesn't kill me, but it gets me fired up. Even the When Jesus is saying, guys, listen, this is the week before the arrest.
00:17:20
NextGen Matters
I'm leaving. I'm departing. I'm going to be dying. He's describing, yes, it's the Romans. Yes, the Jewish people will pull this off. Yes, it's going to be the Sanhedrin. He's giving all the details.
00:17:33
NextGen Matters
They're not listening. But basically it's like, oh, you're dying. Well, can have your stuff? You know, who gets the, you know, who gets the beamer? Can I sit next to you in the kingdom? And when mama came, the two brothers, when mama came representing her sons, and by the way, James and John were probably in their late teens, early twenty s So here comes Mama to represent and they're actually in a broader sense related to Jesus. So there's a greater family context they're going on to y'all. So when Mama comes, you know, I guess we say Mrs. Thunder, the sons of Thunder, Mrs. Zebedee. So when she comes and says, hey, Jesus, can my boys, can you hook them up in the kingdom? Can they sit to your right, to your left? He says, this is not from for me to even give. That's my father. it says the other ten were indignant.
00:18:18
NextGen Matters
They were ticked off, too, because they were hoping to get that. I mean, this is when you go, right then you go into the Corinthian church. for nowo I follow Paul. I follow Peter. I follow Paulus.
00:18:29
NextGen Matters
Well, you're supposed to follow Jesus. Well, we all say that, Ryan. Every ministry lady goes, well, I follow Jesus. But while he's there and I'm here, I'm the influencer. Or I need to be, you know, the man. I need to be the dog, you know.
00:18:43
NextGen Matters
And do you see that? with With your generation, do you sense that? Like people are grabbing down to influencers or trying to be the next influencer or whatever. Yeah. the Yeah. i And I think what's at stake is when we lead into that and live a lifestyle like that, we are then also taking for granted the blessing of the ministry and the gift that God has given us of being like, hey, if I want to be like that person, then what you're doing is you're neglecting and forsaking the person that Jesus has created you to be and how to operate and walk in.
00:19:17
NextGen Matters
Like when you are comparing and like there there is a, to get cliche, but like there is a one out of one of you. Like you are the only person with your DNA fingerprint. And and God has given you a specific calling and gifting that he will not give to any other person around you. And what the enemy wants to do is he's so crafty is he says, hey, go ahead and forsake that DNA. go ahead and forsake that calling God has bestowed upon you. And walk in a way that you see on Instagram, walk in a way of this pastor out in Florida, walk in a way of X, Y, Z. And then all a sudden what you're doing is you're now taking for granted and essentially rebuking what God has initially given you and what he said here. My child now use this. And it's just a dangerous place to be. And I think we were already talked about this, but like, so there there is some sort of in a wholly checked way, there can be a healthiness in comparison to say, hey, hold me to a higher standard. I want to continue to grow. want to continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus and my leadership abilities. But there is obviously unhealthy ways. Yeah. like what is Well, here's here's the positive, too. I think of 1 Corinthians 11.1, follow me as... yeahp
00:20:22
NextGen Matters
I follow Christ. So there is a sense where I lean into, let's say, an influencer, someone to be mentored, a ministry person that we really do value because we want to become more like Jesus. Yeah.
Role Models and Christ-like Virtues
00:20:34
NextGen Matters
comes down to motive. Yeah. It really does. yeah So the heart, what what has grabbed your heart? So there's a positive yeah side. there's There's the root we've looked at. oh there's there is a negative. Yeah. Yeah.
00:20:45
NextGen Matters
I think there's a number of negatives, a lot, but just to, we're going to focus on a few of them. First one I think of is the hidden cost. There is a hidden cost of that comparison trap in ministry. And here's what I mean.
00:20:59
NextGen Matters
Comparison can drain me because I'm always having to, I'm thinking of like being on the treadmill. yeah I have to up it. I have to go one more level up at the Walmart, you Jillian Michaels, let's go. Woo. The big old treadmill back in the couple of 20 years ago, you see those commercials all the time. Right. And it's like, go faster, go faster. You can do this. You know, it's like, I'm dying. And the comparison trap can, you can keep cranking up the level higher as well as your speed. Yeah.
00:21:27
NextGen Matters
Trying to be the next so-and-so or trying to be better than the church down yeah the other other side of town. So it can drain me. It can even, i think, distort my calling because like you said, right, my calling is to be faithful to the people that God has entrusted into my care.
00:21:43
NextGen Matters
They're his people, not mine. They're his people, but he's given me the stewardship role over them to shepherd them well. But I'm thinking about what's going on over there. yeah And then also it quietly begins to reshape my own sense of my own identity. I am who Christ called me to be and not only who, but where and do that well. yeah So yeah that's good do you have another one?
00:22:08
NextGen Matters
I mean, think we've all been maybe influenced by this. It's the one where like we're comparing of metrics. We're comparing of like numbers and,
00:22:20
NextGen Matters
Even the good, right? Like, hey, how many came? How many baptisms did you have? How many salvations? And i mean we see in the book of Acts, like when when the church grows, numbers grow. That means salvations have happened, obviously. so that's a good thing. Right. But I think if we have a toxic and poisonous heart within it.
00:22:39
NextGen Matters
then we can be like, hey, man, I only saw a 3% growth in our ministry, but the church down the street saw 13%. That must mean the gifts they have are better and deeper and greater.
00:22:54
NextGen Matters
Yeah, and God's favoring them and not favoring me. Correct. And they could be doing some, I'll just say some shady things to attract people. Yeah, and it just comes down to like – Or teaching some just either false doctrine or they're not teaching deep doctrine. They're just keeping it very shallow to be highly attractive. Yeah,
Digital Age: Magnifying Comparison
00:23:15
NextGen Matters
definitely. Teaching years will be attractive. You think attendance, you think budgets.
00:23:19
NextGen Matters
yeah Social media can become even the scoreboard. Yep. I think of, let's call it the why not me. Why not me moments. and here's what I mean. We started thinking of these internal narratives in my mind.
00:23:30
NextGen Matters
Leaders that rarely will admit it. And I'm raising my hand right here, right now. Right here. got my hand up. yeah Envy. Insecurity. I don't know a youth worker that doesn't struggle with insecurity.
00:23:42
NextGen Matters
If you'd never struggle with it, you know, blow my Blow my Instagram up or something. yeah yeahp The fear of being overlooked. yeah The why not me? Why did somebody else get it? Why not me? yeah You have any others?
00:23:56
NextGen Matters
uh i is one i've i've walked through that i've actually had to then deal with and now i'm on the other side of it but it's it's the comparison more so in like yes the digital age and instagram and i've always gone back to like there is a tangible danger of social media comparison and social media has like expedited that because it's it's all over and you know this was from Craig Groeschel. He had this. This is years ago. I heard it. He said, Hey, why resist a temptation tomorrow if you have the power to eliminate it today? And I think a lot of times we think of that as a maybe a sexual sin or anything of that nature. But I mean,
00:24:35
NextGen Matters
Being envious and having jealousy in our heart, it leads to slander a lot of times through our mouth. Yes. And that is a sin. And so if we want to rebuke sin, if we want to not be tempted to sin and we are tempted in a way that's through comparing. in social media, that's something that I've had to walk through to just say, hey, maybe in this season of ministry, maybe in this season of life where I've taken on too much unchecked pride or unchecked comparison, maybe I just need to get off of it for a while. And that's something that I've had to walk through. And it's honestly been great. So yeah, I would just say there's there's a danger of being like expedited into all these ways of comparing. And for some, it looks like maybe just not
00:25:19
NextGen Matters
You know, being on it, but maybe for others, it's like, hey, I can handle that in a way. But also I have a healthy way to go about it. So that's one I've seen, though. Yeah. I also think about let me call this calling versus competence. Here's here's what i mean.
00:25:35
NextGen Matters
helping leaders distinguish between God's assignment and then looking at someone else's gifting. And you've already been alluding to it as well and saying it like I look at someone else and they they seem better, they're better wired or they're better gifted at let's say speaking. I speak to a group of 50. My friend speaks to a group of 500. I could speak to a group of 100, but they speak to a group of a thousand. They get these reports out of all these things that God has done. And I'm like,
00:26:03
NextGen Matters
Well, I had, you know, five students complain to me afterward that they didn't like this. And I mean, real life stuff on the negative side. And it really can begin to drain you because, see, you and I know our hearts and we know the pain of ministry. So think about this. We know the the pain and the struggles of ministry and what we see.
00:26:22
NextGen Matters
you know, thank you, social media. What we see is the air quotes picture perfect side, the the Pinterest perfect side. Like mommies, you're trying to do the best ever, you know, birthday party for the kid so they can create the best Pinterest moment to look good.
00:26:37
NextGen Matters
And that's draining. too I've talked to young moms about that. and Trying to be the best at. yeah And I'm like, dude, we do the same thing in ministry. So yes, Ryan, can we can we create...
00:26:52
NextGen Matters
I think, wonder if we contribute to this, where we're just not like, not objects of it, but and we're not just like, we're receiving it, we're looking at but can we actually then create the comparison for others? Yeah, it just goes into the heart check of are we living in pride or in humility? And I think for me, what I've kind of learned is to say, hey, because I've fallen into this and I've had to go repent and ask for others forgiveness to say, hey, I realized in a way I was communicating to you, it was in a way of pride and saying,
00:27:20
NextGen Matters
i probably will make them jealous because of this and so to answer your question it's hey not only do we need to be in check to not like compare ourselves and be envious towards anyone else but also we need to live in a humble way to say the way i maybe share or the how and the reason why i post this or why i put this out there is in a way that is pure and honoring and admonishing in its in its uh in a righteous, like holy way and not out of a, hey, see what I did.
00:27:53
NextGen Matters
And I think for us as ministry leaders, that's what we have to be careful of is to not cause others to stumble and other brothers and sisters to fall into the sin of coveting and being envious and and being jealous. So, you know, this couple of things came to mind really quick.
00:28:11
NextGen Matters
Cody, last week, last episode, Cody is one of the most humble men you'll meet. And he's proved it by not taking, I mean, he's in the largest church in our community. It's got, legacy-wise, it's one of the biggest legacy churches in the country.
00:28:29
NextGen Matters
He's just a dude who wants to get coffee. And even how he positioned himself with you guys, you, I, the you, meaning the student pastors of the area that participated, you all just got like, a an email, something from him recently. Yeah. Just say, Hey, we're so excited to have you. And also like, here's some other opportunities to connect and it's not episode related at all. it's like sick. And it was cool. I appreciate this. He gave us Gym Matters a shout out. yeah And it's just like he he wants everybody else to win. yeah And he really has postured himself in in humility. And I, as as we were both, same church, and by the way, we're filming in in our church at Waymaker here in Forest, Virginia, where they allowed us to use their facility here for Ryan and I.
00:29:13
NextGen Matters
for today's episode. But even as our church was a guest of that, we never felt like a guest. they He made us feel like we were all at home. yeah And I love that. So yeah and we can, yeah, we can create, we can thump our chest, we can try to look better. And he even told me this like off the record after we were done recording last week.
00:29:32
NextGen Matters
He mentioned that his concern was whether it was back in North Carolina when he did the same type of like episode, not called that, but his other, his 180, or here. He never wanted the other churches to feel like, oh, look at all my words, not his. Look at all the big toys. yeah Like, look at all the cool stuff. We can't do that. I felt that way when I would go to large conferences. I could never do, I love Ron Luce Team Media and the Choir the Fire. Yes, I'm old, so way I used to go to those.
00:29:56
NextGen Matters
But when we see the pyrotech, think skillet, but think like a weekend you know conference. Yeah. Still blowing off the stage and everything and I think with my 45 50 teenagers I could never do pyrotech first I lose my job if I tried that in church, but I'm saying i had to go let's celebrate that yep that's not who we are yep, but I can then And this is something, Ryan, that you don't know this part. When you're a little lad and you would go with us on our mission trip across the state in Washington to the eastern side, we served this little Hispanic church of like 50 people. Bless their hearts, and I sincerely mean that. Wonderful, godly folks.
00:30:32
NextGen Matters
And their pastor wanted me to bring in to do the big VBS and do the big stuff because they couldn't do x Y, or Z. And I felt awkward with that. We had like the back, this is 25, 30 years ago, we had some of those larger, we could bring the the video wall, the video screens and all this stuff.
00:30:49
NextGen Matters
And I felt awkward in that because I knew we would leave, we'd go back to the Seattle area and they wouldn't have those big toys. And Ryan, you know, you were young, so I wasn't telling you this as my son, that but I'll tell you right now. So please all listen.
00:31:01
NextGen Matters
I felt I honored him. So we did bring those things he asked us to bring, you our big high tech stuff. But I didn't want to because, does this make sense? I didn't want them to feel like we don't measure up.
00:31:12
NextGen Matters
We can't do what they do from Seattle. I just wanted to come in as we posture ourselves in humility. We're here to serve. yeah So yeah, we we can, you and i both, every one of us listening can create a culture of comparison.
00:31:27
NextGen Matters
When I post something, I have to ask myself. Why? Bam. Yep. And honestly, that's why what stunted me from honestly posting And everyone's heart and everyone's motives are different. And, you know, I don't judge to say, why would someone post this
Intentions Behind Sharing Achievements
00:31:42
NextGen Matters
or why would not? But like, I think if you now go through my Facebook for the example of the last year compared to my first five years of ministry, you would see an exponentially like decrease and a lessened of. And it's not to say now I'm holier than thou, but it's just to I've had to refine the why. And I think in the beginning of ministry, it was almost like an unhealthy why.
00:32:04
NextGen Matters
It is. And only you can answer. And even then, our hearts, as 1 John says, can be deceiving to ourselves. But this is where I'm at with Next Gen Matters. It's an LLC. It's a business. So I have to be promoting a business.
00:32:19
NextGen Matters
In other words, telling your story, just like you would in ministry. You want to tell your story. And yet... Am I thumping my chest when I tell the story? And I have to even process this as a a business, which is all about ministry, yeah is if I don't, let's say, advertise through social media, yeah then no one's going to hear what NextGen Matters, yeah you know what we have, what we do, what we can provide for you.
00:32:41
NextGen Matters
But yet i I struggle because I feel awkward in air quotes telling the story because I don't want to come across as. yeah So I think one thing we can do in the next episode, we're going to get into much of the actionable things we can do and do it well. But is just I'll just leave it like this and say championing other people. Ryan, in conclusion, is there anything we're going to start to land the plane? We've gone from 30,000 feet. We're about 10,000. We're getting ready to land the plane safely. Okay.
00:33:09
NextGen Matters
Is there anything you want to share that can encourage our listener? You've shared a lot of great things, but even specifically in the power of shared ministry or something that maybe you've done to help you not...
00:33:24
NextGen Matters
yep Well, you just said one, but is there anything else you want to share about that? Just like staying focused on what God has put in front of you and what he's called you to. I think it's easy. And I speak from experience to say, hey, I need to refine this. I think it's easy to be like going after 30 things at once. And then all of a sudden you're just kind of misfiring at all these different places.
00:33:43
NextGen Matters
And just to so remain focused on like that one or two things that God has put in front of you to say, hey, this is what I've called you to and to grow in it and be refined in it. And when you do that, when you grow in those few things, you actually find yourself to not then compare to others as if you were trying to grow in like 30 different areas at once. So just you as a leader, like remain humble, remain obviously grounded in the word of God and and celebrate and champion those around you. Big stuff. Good stuff. Big stuff. Yeah, it's good stuff. So as we wrap up today's conversation, I want to leave you with this simple reminder.
00:34:16
NextGen Matters
God has never asked you to run Ryan's race. He didn't ask Ryan to run my race and we're father's son. He didn't ask me to run someone else's race.
00:34:27
NextGen Matters
You, cliche, stay in the lane, stay in your lane. But yeah, in a beautiful way, not in the negative sense, but beautiful way of like, well, God has given me to do parable of the talents. What has God called me to do?
Focusing on Personal Divine Calling
00:34:38
NextGen Matters
he'd never measured He never called you to measure yourself against another leader's highlight reel.
00:34:45
NextGen Matters
Can I get a witness on that? He never once compares, he never once asked you to compare your work that he's doing through you with the work he's doing in someone else. And my mind immediately goes to John 21.
00:35:00
NextGen Matters
Peter hears in his restoration to Christ, of course, he denies three times. He then says three times, I love you, kind of, playing words in the Greek there. But he says, I love you. You know I love you. And then he says, go feed, go feed, go feed, right? And then Jesus describes to Peter,
00:35:16
NextGen Matters
What's going to happen to him? His end of life is not going to go well turned upside down. Sure enough, he was crucified upside down. Peter then looks over his younger friend, John, and he goes, hey, what about him? are we today? Jesus says, stay in your lane. No, he says, you don't worry about him.
00:35:31
NextGen Matters
i have a plan for him. You focus on what I've called you to do. yeahp That's a good word from the Lord Jesus. So you were called. on a purpose, you were called for a purpose, you were called in this moment of history with your students, these students right now, in the community that God has called you to be in with that particular mix of strengths and and weaknesses, and you got your quirks, I got mine, you got your gifts, none of that is accidental.
00:36:01
NextGen Matters
None of that is second best. None of that is less than someone else. God has designed and called you Now we got a few calls to action, my man.
00:36:13
NextGen Matters
Name number one, I say name where comparison shows up for you. Ask the Holy Spirit, say, Lord, next time I start comparing, just kind of slap me in the head with, hey, dude, you're doing it again.
00:36:27
NextGen Matters
So ask the Holy Spirit to just to call you out and start naming where the comparison, whether it's on your Instagram feed or it's just a word from someone else. Second, celebrate someone else's win.
00:36:41
NextGen Matters
When you hear of another ministry that's doing well, text your buddy, text your friend, or even give them a shout on the gram or something, you know, publicly and or privately or both celebrate someone else's win.
00:36:55
NextGen Matters
Third is I'm going to say, celebrate your own win. Yes. Think about what God did do. that We're shooting this on a Thursday. Last Wednesday night was Way Youth, our high school ministry. So right even then, you could think about what are some of the things that God did, hearing it from the small groups, how did conversations go, and taking those little small wings that go and going, thank you, God. Yep.
00:37:15
NextGen Matters
Thank you, God. All right, we're going wrap
Engaging Listeners and Promoting Growth
00:37:17
NextGen Matters
this up. Thank you again for joining us. Rich and Ryan Brown here on today's episode of the Next Gen Matters podcast. Remember, if today is ministered to you, email me at richandnextgenmatters.com because I want to hear from you.
00:37:32
NextGen Matters
Also, please leave a comment in the podcast. the drop box, the comment box below, and even send this podcast to a friend. And if you haven't subscribed, please do. like I'm checking the numbers. I'm checking the numbers. See, I just said that. checking the numbers. It's growing. Thank the Lord. It is growing. And I'm seeing more and more people are subscribing. So I'm glad because I pray, Ryan knows this now because he's now with me on this. I pray over the content.
00:37:57
NextGen Matters
And then I pray even before we record that God will use this, whether it's during the first week of this this recording being released or or a year from now, that everything we do will honor Jesus and bless his people.
00:38:10
NextGen Matters
That's why I want this podcast to grow. All right. So, hey, also Thursday Tool, if you didn't get it, make sure you're getting this. And the link to subscribe for that is also down below. Next week, we're going to look into a little bit deeper on the actionable side of what can we do to frame up or to safeguard how we can truly lean into this topic, but very positively yeah how to safeguard ourselves with that. So again, thanks for joining me on the Next Gen Matters podcast. Until next time, remember your leadership matters because your ministry matters because the gospel matters.
00:38:44
NextGen Matters
Have a great week.