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#22: Why Work? 5 Ministry Vital Signs pt.5
64 Plays9 days ago
This episode is a rich, relational deep‑dive into how student ministry can move beyond programs and personalities and into genuine disciple‑making. Rich sits down with longtime friend and former student, Dakota Gregg, to explore how a nearly collapsed student ministry was rebuilt into a thriving, mission‑driven culture where students pray, serve, lead, and share the gospel.
Dakota shares candidly about inheriting a ministry that had dropped from 150 students to 20, the painful history behind that decline, and the intentional steps he took to rebuild—not around himself but around equipping the saints for the work of ministry. Through prayer gatherings, student‑led leadership teams, and high‑expectation mission partnerships, Dakota has cultivated a culture where students own the ministry and embrace their calling as ambassadors of Jesus.
This conversation is packed with practical wisdom, honest reflection, and inspiring stories of students stepping into real ministry—from leading prayer gatherings to sharing the gospel on university campuses in Canada. It’s a masterclass in sustainable, Spirit‑led student ministry.
Resources Mentioned:
Next Gen Matters – https://www.nextgenmatters.com/
Experiencing Godby Henry Blackaby
North American Mission Board (NAMB) - https://www.namb.net/
Email for Rich Brown (NGM): rich@nextgenmatters.com
Email for Dakota Gragg (Spotswood Baptist Church) dgragg@spotswood.org
Subscribe for NGM Thursday Tools email
The Bible (Scripture references in order: John 15; Ephesians 4:12; Matthew 28:18–20; Acts 1:8; Romans 10:14–15)
Timestamps:
00:00 – Introduction and Dakota’s ministry background
06:00 – Rebuilding a struggling student ministry and shifting the leadership mindset
09:00 – Why ministry cannot revolve around one leader
12:30 – How a simple prayer gathering became a student leadership team
15:30 – Rethinking student leadership: application vs. nomination model
20:30 – Mission trips redefined: from projects to gospel-centered engagement
28:30 – Training students for evangelism (locally and globally)
30:00 – Creating everyday ministry opportunities for students
33:30 – Advice for new ministry leaders: start small and build slowly
37:00 – Advice for seasoned leaders: avoiding burnout and finding harmony
41:00 – Final encouragement: longevity, gratitude, and faithfulness
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Purpose
00:00:01
NextGen Matters
Hey, welcome again to the Next Show Matters podcast, a show for ministry leaders seeking to move beyond overwhelm and move into leading with clarity, confidence, and consistency. Rich Brown here, and I am with my dear friend, Dakota Gregg, up at his church here in Spotswood Baptist Church in Fredericksburg, Virginia.
00:00:19
NextGen Matters
Dakota, thanks for letting me in your studio. Yeah, you're welcome. I'm glad that you're here. It's a studio that our entire church gets to use. It's pretty cool. We've had several different podcasts kind of come in and out and over the years that we've done. Nice. It's been a good tool.
00:00:32
NextGen Matters
Yeah, I get to spend the weekend with the middle school students as I'm being allowed to speak.
Personal Journeys and Historical Connections
00:00:39
NextGen Matters
now As I'm sharing out of John 15 of what it means to abide in Christ with middle schoolers, and I love it. So now you've been here how many years? So this may actually will be seven years for me. So it's my first full cycle, which means that for if you aren't in the mix of student stuff, that means that I, every six, nobody that is in our student ministry has known anything but Dakota Gregg being at Spotswood as far as student ministry goes. our current 12th graders were sixth graders when I got here. Amazing.
00:01:13
NextGen Matters
And that's not including your internship. Correct. Cause you did, did you do two years of internship? Yeah. So in 2014 and 15, I was here. Well, i I actually did a full year in addition oh to two summers. Oh, like a residence. Yeah. So nice. i was here for little while. you've been in this loop for, let's say about 10 years. About 10 years. Yeah. That's beautiful. Beautiful. Yeah. i got to do y'all's wedding that is true i married haley she's awesome she's way better at everything than me uh and way smarter and always and we together have uh three kids uh we have crosby who is six hudson just turned four and ilsa is almost 11 months so wow it's a party
00:01:53
NextGen Matters
I haven't met Ilse yet. yeah she She was in the womb last time I saw you and your wife. She was very much ready to make her entrance. And she did. Because it was last year. this is We're shooting this in the middle of March.
00:02:05
NextGen Matters
And it was last year at this time, I was up in the same town doing a spiritual lunch this week. Thanks to your invitation, by the way, at Fredericksburg Christian school. And we got to hang out, get some good old Italian food downtown Fredericksburg, which is adorable, it's not a little town anymore.
00:02:19
NextGen Matters
It's a small city. It is not a little town. I should consider it now part of part of Northern Virginia. Yeah. Because the, as soon as the express lanes got down here, everything changed. Oh yeah. The traffic's and that's already. yeah So living in Lynchburg, Virginia, when people complain about the traffic, I'm like, you guys need to get out more. That's why I bought a farm and moved about 15 minutes out. Yes, yes. And if you're a history nerd like moi, my second grade, Gramps, spent a weekend or two where Dakota lives now. Back in the day of the Battle of Chancellorsville. Actually, I did some scoping around online, and my Gramps, his first core was right near your house now. Really? Crazy, yes. That is crazy. Yes, yes, yes. So anyway, we're going talk about history
Dakota's Ministry Beginnings and Focus
00:02:59
NextGen Matters
this whole time.
00:03:00
NextGen Matters
No, we're not. No, we're not. This is the NGM History Podcast. anyway dakota we met oh my goodness what was your freshman year oh nine ten twelve twelve yeah well that's when we because i i transferred in so yeah yeah your first year with us in the youth program and and you took uh my intro youth class and you You probably got sick of me You had me so many times. I did have you a lot. You did. He said that with a smile on his face as he rolled his eyes. No, seriously, it was fun because, you know, it's just who I am.
00:03:32
NextGen Matters
i was never going to be the instructor, just see you in the classroom. yeah I mean, you were at my house so many times with our gathering of our college students, but also even helped me with some, you know, projects because you love projects and you are the master chef when it comes to, you know,
00:03:50
NextGen Matters
I do like to cook. Yeah, he does. He would do his his Dakota Greg special of the week was his homemade mac and cheese. So we'd have our our youth connect meetings, we call them at our house. We get 40, 50, sometimes up to 100 students, youth ministry students come to our home back in my time at and teaching in the university and Dakota would bring tons of mac and cheese and he didn't have to take any home. It was always gone. Always gone. Anyway. Hey, we're looking at these five W's we've been processing with, and in an episode 17, I walked through my flyover of all five of them, and we've been also the last few weeks journeying through by bringing in different ministry experts and talking about one of those W's, one of those, let's say, focuses or elements of ministry that they're doing well, that they're seeing God really produce fruit in. And Dakota, his heartbeat and his passion is the last of the five W's, which is work.
00:04:44
NextGen Matters
So Dakota, let's go back. You inherited a group, you said seven years ago, but specifically stepping into the high school because you are the next gen pastor here. Yeah. So my my title is pastor of student ministries, but I do function in overseeing all of our next gen stuff. Correct. So overview everything as far as student ministry, next gen ministries, but I focus and focus attention as high school. Exactly.
00:05:07
NextGen Matters
And a lot of our listeners possibly would have that same hat that they wear as well. Very, very common. I mean, I did, you know, back in my day. But anyway. They called it a family pastor back then? No, no. It was just, we went from being the youth pastor to student pastor in the ninety s Kind of like, we grew up, we he became student pastor. yeah No longer, I'm the youth pastor. Anyway. So,
00:05:30
NextGen Matters
You inherit this this ministry. And by the way, your predecessors are dear friends of mine, excellent at what they were doing. So they I'd say the, because I've been familiar with the church for probably 15 to 20 years.
00:05:44
NextGen Matters
And the the car was already going well down the I-5 or down the I-95 kind
Leadership Challenges and Strategies
00:05:48
NextGen Matters
of thing. I say five for the West Coasters and I-95 for us here in the East Coast. But the car was already going well. But when you stepped in,
00:05:55
NextGen Matters
Not to be the contrarian, but to actually continue on. And yet you've developed even deeper when it comes to the ministry component, the work component of these five W's. So well we want to talk about that now.
00:06:08
NextGen Matters
What are you doing now? Let's start with a small picture and then take us to the big picture. Because you're doing some big picture, some 30,000 foot view, some really incredibly deep things in ministry as far as having the students own the ministry. But let's take it on a smaller scale. How have you helped create an attitude, create a culture of, we are here to be the hands and feet of Jesus?
00:06:34
NextGen Matters
Yeah, so just some history here of of our student ministry. Yeah, there were two guys previous to me in the high school position, Rick, who you know really well, and then and then another person that that filled the role. And the the person between me and Rick did not necessarily...
00:06:53
NextGen Matters
do things great, really bad and leaving. it was, there was a a really big, difficult time in Spotswoods history. And so when I actually got here in 2019 as the high school pastor at the time, the student ministry that I knew as an intern that was 150 high schoolers was down to about 20.
00:07:15
NextGen Matters
So I was just blown away and coming in, having to go, okay, what happened? How do we make adjustments? And to kind of lean into your question, but also with that caveat of understanding where we came from. Dakota, apologize. I forgot about that.
00:07:34
NextGen Matters
Oh, yeah. That's huge. That's huge part of the story. It was big because i forgot about i came in anticipating what I had left as an intern. But then when it was different, I had to kind of change my my frame a little bit. that car was going well down the highway. Yeah, I remember. Well, and then, you know, we started shifting to because my one of the things that has been really pressed into me over the years by you, by other mentors is being a pastor is not about being the guy.
00:08:03
NextGen Matters
OK, one of the things that I would say is if you if you want a ministry that will last, it can't be about you. It just can't. What we've seen for so many years and in different contexts, and maybe this is maybe you're listening and you're kind of struggling with this, that you've built your ministry around you as a personality and you as you kind of do everything. you're the You're the one who does all the elements of everything. I've been there, done that. It doesn't work.
00:08:31
NextGen Matters
And sometimes we're forced to because we just don't have correct the support the resources, people to help. But... and And you can't, there's a cap. Yeah. And to so what you can just say it super straightforward, but as kind as I can and as loving as I can, because we're all figuring figuring it out and nothing that I say today is going to be me saying, I've got it figured out. This is the best way to do anything. I'm learning just like everybody else. And we're on this train together. But I would say if you're in the boat of it being about you and you're doing everything, stop.
00:09:04
NextGen Matters
Figure out how to change that. Because we're not called to do it all. We're called to equip the saints for the work of the ministry. So if you're looking at your ministry going, I'm the one doing all the work all the time and I'm burning out and I'm struggling. You've got your sustainable cohort, which I've been through, which is great. And that's helpful. I'll take plug. Let's go. Yeah. if if you're If you're in the process of feeling like all i'm' I'm responsible for every element, you need to take a check on what you're doing because you're doing something wrong.
00:09:35
NextGen Matters
Because your job is to equip the saints of the work for the work of the ministry, not for you as the pastor to do all the work of the ministry. So let me let me jump in a little bit on that. that As we're looking at the student side of things, really there's even that first step, which is develop the team around you. Correct.
00:09:53
NextGen Matters
And that's where you're going because, yeah, I said the phrase, there's a cap. There's only so much you can do. But even more than that, Dakota, it's like there's a cap on how big numbers-wise, you know, impact.
00:10:05
NextGen Matters
When I say numbers, I'm talking about impact, not just metrics. yep There's, there's a certain, there only so many students will come and be part of your ministry.
Student Leadership and Involvement
00:10:13
NextGen Matters
If it's all about you, it just caps. It just does. Have you seen that? Oh, absolutely. And that's one of the things.
00:10:19
NextGen Matters
that I'm very thankful for our volunteer team here at Spotswood. I mean, it's unbelievable. The, because there's a few of my volunteers that have been here since I was an intern and even before. Bill, Bill is one of our Connect Group leaders. He's been serving in student ministry as a volunteer for 31 years. I met him. Here. Last year. i met him last also served when he was in Texas for years. So he's been doing student ministry longer than I've been alive.
00:10:47
NextGen Matters
And he's been consistent and caring and invest greatly. And then we've got the Coleman's who their, their oldest daughter is graduating this year and they've been serving in student ministry since before she was born.
00:11:01
NextGen Matters
they certainly They didn't use the excuse of we've got littles and now we can't do it. They made it work and their kids are all great and they love the church. They love Jesus.
00:11:11
NextGen Matters
And so but I've got a couple of leaders, but then i have a a significant number of my leaders that came on in 2019 and are still with me. And they're bought in. They do it. I was telling you earlier, I've got leaders now that are running major parts of our student ministry without me.
00:11:29
NextGen Matters
They just check in with me. You have built that. And you've also, let me say, earned that because that's earning trust. yeah Absolutely. From Pastor Drew, you know, senior leadership to earn that trust where Drew drew could say, you called it you don't have to beat everything because he's learned to trust you. It's faithful and small, then faithful and right. So you've earned the trust, but you've also equipped your leaders.
00:11:48
NextGen Matters
that's That's incredible. I love hearing these stories because it's like, I know there is let me say successful, there is impacting student ministries and next-gen ministries out there.
00:12:01
NextGen Matters
And I love, let me say showcasing them, not to compare. That was what I wrote in the last, you know, even had podcasts the last few times it was not the comparison thing. No comparison trap should be in our lives, but to say, wow, I want to be encouraged that that is possible.
00:12:20
NextGen Matters
So now let's take the pivot into the students. What have you been able to do, like your your prayer ministry you started? I think that's a great place to start.
00:12:31
NextGen Matters
Okay. Yeah, because there's primarily three areas in which I think that our student ministry is doing really well as it pertains to equipping the saints for the work of the ministry. and And the first one, which is our student leadership team, was birthed and started out of a prayer ministry. That was not my idea.
00:12:51
NextGen Matters
And that's really important because at times as a leader, you've got to be willing to do something that's not your idea because it's where God's at work.
00:13:02
NextGen Matters
If you see God at work, just join him there. Stop trying to figure it out yourself because he's doing stuff all the time all around Henry Blackaby, you know, and experiencing God. A great study.
00:13:13
NextGen Matters
And he talks about that all the time. Like God is at work all the time, all around you. You've got to look, find it, and just join him. Don't try and do it yourself and figure it out. And we had a significant time in our country when some difficult things were happening. I felt a nudge from the Spirit to say, hey, let's just do see if any students want to to pray about this after a Wednesday night. So we had our Wednesday night and I just threw it out on the table at the end of my talk and said, hey, we're going to dismiss. If anybody wants to just pray about what's going on right now in our world, just stay and we'll pray. And we had about 10 students.
00:13:48
NextGen Matters
do that. And what was funny is I had no intention of doing that again. was a one-off. Yep. And then the next week, those students were like, hey, are are we going to stay and pray again? And I looked at some of my team and I i just thought, well, that's interesting. And my assistant at the time said, hey,
00:14:06
NextGen Matters
we need to lean into this. Cool. This is important. So it wasn't my idea. It wasn't even me that really noticed that it was a really good thing. It was the people around me that saw it and and were aware. And what we did was we leaned into that and we made that our student leadership team, which means that they...
00:14:24
NextGen Matters
They get to speak into what we do, how we do it, events, camp, our weekend stuff like elevate what's going on now. We have that grace weekend for high schoolers in the fall. So there are high schoolers right now serving I'm doing the sessions. correct. I think we've got 10 or 12 high schoolers that are currently serving at elevate. I thought we had some older looking middle third schoolers. Yeah, they're just, we we allow our juniors and seniors to serve back at L.A. That's awesome. So, and and they love it because they've been there.
00:14:52
NextGen Matters
They've done it and they know they know the impact of it. So it's really cool. But our student leadership team birthed out of that prayer time. We still do that prayer time. We've got like 20 kids pretty regular that stay every Wednesday night to pray.
00:15:04
NextGen Matters
and our student leadership team like i said does a lot they speak into a lot and we've we are in the process of changing some of the ways we do that which i think is going to help where we're going long term you're now as you were telling off the air you are now offering this to Anyone, as you as you basically, here's here's the requirements, here's what you're going to be doing, here's the bar.
00:15:29
NextGen Matters
there's You raise the bar and you say, if you're interested, we'll talk. Application, you interview them, et cetera. Go with that. Yeah. So originally we wouldn't allow a ninth grader to be on the student leadership team. We wanted them to get a year of high school ministry under their belt before we started letting them speak into stuff.
00:15:46
NextGen Matters
And what would happen is we would take nominations from their small group leaders or connect group leaders, family group, whatever you call it at your church. We call them connect groups. So their connect group leader would nominate a handful of students from their group to say, hey, I think they should be on the leadership team. And the problem with that that we have found is that it kind of weasels them into a thing that they don't want to say no to because they know somebody they care about nominated them. And you always will have some students overlooked as a result of that, which we try to go in and find them and get them and make sure they don't get overlooked, but you can't get them all.
00:16:19
NextGen Matters
So you have some that potentially are nominated and they're just playing nice. Correct. So they're kind of going along with it, but not really sensing this is what. Yep. And then what, what happens for them to do, but they say yes, but then they probably either burn out or could get disgruntled or, or they just drop the ball and they just just stop coming, which then really hurts the team chemistry. Correct. Correct. And then it seems like it doesn't matter.
00:16:42
NextGen Matters
And then students go, oh, well, it's if that if if it's not important enough for them to care, then I don't need to yeah put that much effort into It's kind of like a sport an athletic team. oh yeah you know If if your a couple of your key players decide, I'm not going to go to practice, guess what?
00:16:57
NextGen Matters
Half the team is going to be like, oh, practice doesn't matter, you know, but if you've got those key people that are really locked in, it's it's contagious. And so what we're going to change to is that we are going to open it up to ninth through twelfth grade because we're also going to be starting something in middle school that's a little lower level, but accessible to middle schoolers. And so they're prepared to come into this in high school, which I think is going to be incredible.
00:17:23
NextGen Matters
And they are going to apply for it. We're going to throw it out there and they're going to apply and the expectations will be very clear and they will apply and be interviewed to become part of the student leadership team by some of our adult leaders, myself and our team, basically.
00:17:40
NextGen Matters
And what I think that's going to do is that's going make it something that they choose and feel called to. So that when, because it is a win with students, it's always a win, not an if, when they drop the ball and when they, you know, get busy and distracted doing something else and they stop showing up, you get to have a discipleship conversation, not a discipline conversation.
00:18:04
NextGen Matters
You get to talk to them about, hey, I love how you said that. Say it again. Yeah, so you get to have a discipleship conversation, not a discipline conversation. You're not going in into to slap them on the hand and say, you didn't come to this, you agreed to this. You get to sit down and say, hey, are you okay?
00:18:20
NextGen Matters
Because you chose to do this, right and you felt called to do this. We had that conversation, and something is has changed, so I want to check on you.
00:18:32
NextGen Matters
And what I think is going to happen because I've seen it happen in other places is that's a reality check that we all need as believers. You were talking about it this morning with the, with the students. There are times where it feels like a desert. Yep.
00:18:45
NextGen Matters
And sometimes you need no fruit of the John 15, the no fruit. Yeah. That context, it is believers because we'll preach, but Jesus says to the 11, those of you, you're in me, you're saved, but they're not bearing fruit.
00:18:58
NextGen Matters
Yeah, there's times we just kind of flatline. Yep. And sometimes you need somebody else, your your Paul or whatever, to come beside you and say, hey, you okay? You're you're a little off track here. Can I help you get back on?
00:19:12
NextGen Matters
And that's when it's going to happen.
Mission Trips and Evangelism
00:19:14
NextGen Matters
So you're discipling them in growth versus versus just saying, hey, you did something wrong. Because then they're just going to be like, well, I'm not going to do it anyways. I'm good.
00:19:22
NextGen Matters
So you start, this really was again, birthed in the, organically, right. Through the, the, the prayer, not even a ministry at that point, just this prayer gathering yeah and then the continuation of that.
00:19:36
NextGen Matters
And then that organically through the spirit led into, we need to take this to another level, getting students, Part of taking responsibilities in ministry, thus your leadership team, not a and not not a you know a contest, yeah who's popular, but truly who wants to serve and who wants to learn how to lead through serving.
00:20:02
NextGen Matters
Now, you've also been doing, this is now the higher view. you are now, and you've been doing various mission trips and what I, what I like about what you do, cause I track, you know, we'll text plus also Facebook, whatever, but we're not just talking about, and don't get mad listener, but just, I'm going to say it painting a building.
00:20:23
NextGen Matters
I'm not going to equate as a mission trip. You mean repainting a building that the group, that the previous group screwed up, but they had to get it done to check off the box and get the dopamine hit.
00:20:36
NextGen Matters
that's That could be ministry, but I'm talking about mission is sharing the gospel. Absolutely. That is the mission is to make disciples. Now, I'm a huge fan because you had my senior class in your air quotes doing your mission project through your project mission trip. In your project, you had to do where you verbally shared the gospel and then visibly shared the gospel through. Yeah, we want to do some activity, but training students to share the gospel. And that's what you do.
00:21:04
NextGen Matters
So when we say mission trip, we're defining it. These students realize I'm here to proclaim the news of Jesus, just like Jesus said, to preach it to the people. So go with me. Well, and with that, that means that you leader, mission student leader, whoever you might be, that means you got to do a little extra work.
00:21:21
NextGen Matters
Okay. Yes. Because that means that at times you're not going to be able to just choose the mission organization that does it all for you. But that's easy. That's the easy button. The big red button.
00:21:34
NextGen Matters
Yeah. and and don't And listen, I've done it before, and that's why I don't do it now. Because I didn't see what I needed to see as a pastor, a shepherd who was looking at the students going, they didn't grow through that. They didn't share the gospel. They didn't do a mission trip.
00:21:51
NextGen Matters
And I'm not saying you were busy. You checked the box. were busy. And that's not saying that going and doing projects on a mission trip isn't something you can do. Right. So let me clarify that and and give you kind of what our mission trips look like. So we've been to Mexico. We've been to Alaska. And now we are currently partnered in Newfoundland, Canada.
00:22:11
NextGen Matters
And then we are i am right now developing a new partnership in London. Okay. So what, and that's intentional. I'm using that word partnership really clearly because in Mexico we were partnered with an IMB missionary who was planting a church there. Okay. And then after COVID, which time that we should never speak of, after COVID we had no options and I had some friends,
00:22:36
NextGen Matters
who were out in Alaska, in Anchorage. And they said, hey, yeah, you can come and do a mission trip here. We have a church plant that planted. remember this. i remember y'all going. Yeah. And so I went out there for two years with students and we did a lot of... you went out there Not for the entire two years.
00:22:54
NextGen Matters
Yeah, no. We went out there for a week at a time, two years in a row. And we did a lot of street evangelism. We did a lot of homeless evangelism. and But with that, we also did homeless care. We did projects and stuff like that. And we actually did a soup kitchen. But it was all surrounded by opportunities to interact with people.
00:23:13
NextGen Matters
Yes, thank you. Okay? Yes. And so... When that kind of finished up and I had the opportunity to build an an actual partnership, I got connected with Mile One Mission in Newfoundland, Canada.
00:23:25
NextGen Matters
And it is Newfoundland, not Newfoundland. Okay, they will make fun of you if you say it wrong. yeah So in Newfoundland, Canada, Mile One Mission, they're incredible. they're partnered through NAMM, all of that. they are North American Mission Board. Correct. They are planting churches in a place that is 99%
00:23:45
NextGen Matters
It's unbelievable. And so they currently have three churches and two in the works that they're playing in. They're neighborhood churches. They're sure they're small. they're They're doing their thing. But we go up there, and one of the projects that we did was the first year, this is the third year we're we're sending a student team.
00:24:05
NextGen Matters
One of the projects we did was we cleaned up a public elementary school space. And... during that time we got to interact with staff and kids yep and share the gospel. yep and We also do clothing drives where we set up all these things and we do free clothing drives and we get to interact while people are looking through the piles of clothes. and Then at Munn University, we send students onto that campus and they just walk up and cold talk to people about Jesus. Quick story, we had a student that walked up to a guy and said, hey,
00:24:41
NextGen Matters
do you know the gospel? And the guy was like, no. He's like, do you want to? And the guy said, no. And turned around and walked away. And Bastion came back to me and said, that didn't go well. I was like, we'll try again. He walks up to another. He did this probably 15 times throughout the day.
00:24:57
NextGen Matters
And he changed his tactic every time to try and get better and better. And then finally, at the end of the day, he walked up to a guy and the guy said, yeah, I'll hear about the gospel. And Bastion got to share the entire gospel. The three circles is what we use. But he shared the gospel with the guy. It was really cool. But we they also, you know, put on a worship event at the university. Nice. You know, where we had like 40 people show up that they invited and talked to. It's just.
00:25:23
NextGen Matters
They are doing walking evangelism. And because of that, we have a very high standard as to who can go on a mission trip. And this is really important. and I know you agree on this.
00:25:35
NextGen Matters
A mission trip is not something you get to do. It's something that you apply to do. OK, you get to go to camp. If you want to go to camp, you sign up and you come to camp.
00:25:48
NextGen Matters
But if you sign up for a mission trip, which you can't, you have to apply for. We don't just do a public, hey, sign up for the mission trip. We say, hey, apply to the mission trip because that tells you that you can be told no.
00:26:02
NextGen Matters
Because if we have a student that applies and we look at their testimony and we look at the what they've written on their application and we meet with them and just like, hey, you're just not ready for this. That's okay.
00:26:16
NextGen Matters
Be okay with that. Moms and dads are going to get upset with you. But again, discipleship moment. Because then you get to have a conversation with mom and dad and just say, hey, Susie's just not ready.
00:26:29
NextGen Matters
Here's her testimony. Here's what she has said. This is what she's written down. Here's how she would share the gospel. It's just not there. And this is something we can work on.
00:26:41
NextGen Matters
Let's let's build this up so that next year she can go. You know what i mean? And that's what we've actually done. i actually have a student going that did that got denied in the past, which is a really special thing. Very cool.
00:26:53
NextGen Matters
So that's kind of how we operate with that, because we want them to actually be able to do this. We also do not give them any money. They have to raise every penny of what they have. Now, we equip them. We give them all the tools and all the the stuff necessary for them to be able to raise the money to go on the trip because it's about $1,600 to go to Newfoundland for a week.
00:27:15
NextGen Matters
And they have to raise every dime of it. And we've never had a student not. They go to our adult connect groups. And they go in and they give a presentation as to, hey, this is what we're doing. We would love your support, specifically in prayer. But if you can financially, would that would be helpful. And then they have to go back to those connect groups afterwards and give a report as to what happened, stories that God, you know, did cool things, all of that.
00:27:41
NextGen Matters
It's been a really, really special thing. And what we have seen, we've seen a number of students called to missions as a result that are actively doing it now. Right. And we've seen a lot of students come out and get just say, hey I'm called to ministry and I'm going figure that out.
00:27:56
NextGen Matters
and We've got a couple at Liberty right now. We've got a couple at Southeastern right now that in the last few years has come out of our ministry and said, hey, I want to I want to actually do more of this.
00:28:07
NextGen Matters
Yeah. My whole thing was in my day was success was not defined in a eight to 10 day window of the trip. Yep. True success was defined was, are they sharing their faith back in their school?
00:28:22
NextGen Matters
Yep. are Are they learning to become missional? And just not go on a mission trip. Well, funny you say that. One of our training elements to the mission trip is we actually take them either to the mall or to downtown Fredericksburg.
00:28:37
NextGen Matters
It's their fourth training. So there's four we four Sundays that they do training for like three hours after church. And the fourth one, they go downtown or go to the mall and they have to do evangelism.
00:28:49
NextGen Matters
What we've been teaching them to do, and you know we walk them through spiritual gifts, we walk them through leadership styles, we walk them through spiritual warfare, all kinds of things that they're learning and preparing for, and then we actually have them do it here. Because if they won't do it here, they're not going to do it there.
00:29:07
NextGen Matters
And if they're only going to do it there, then they're not they're not doing something right. Exactly. it's low risk. In my opinion, it's a low risk for me to share my faith with someone that I'll never see again. Correct.
00:29:21
NextGen Matters
It's high risk when I share my faith with my unsaved relative it's good or in the adolescent culture, my teammate, uh, my classmate, someone I work with that, you know, Chick-fil-A or whatever.
00:29:33
NextGen Matters
that that's high risk. All right. So let's go from those students who do the mission trip, go on the mission trip. And we always know there's that larger, large or larger percentage that don't.
00:29:46
NextGen Matters
What are you doing to help them learn and to facilitate a lifestyle of ministry, of work, of
Fostering a Service Culture
00:29:55
NextGen Matters
ministry? Is there other rhythms you're you're you've created to help them get involved in different places?
00:30:02
NextGen Matters
Yeah, so there's a couple things. One of them is the Elevate this weekend. They can serve back and be a part of the middle school ministry and serve as a connect group leader. Basically, they're they're partnered with an adult and they're doing that with an adult through the weekend. In addition to that, every fifth Sunday, we have fifth Sunday and our high schoolers get to go back to the children's ministry and basically do a miniature VBS experience on a Sunday.
00:30:28
NextGen Matters
And our most that's mostly run by our high schoolers. okay So those are other just kind of small opportunities. But then we had we started a really long time ago. I had some students, a couple of guys that I was discipling came up to me and said, hey we want to lead us a Bible study for other high school guys.
00:30:47
NextGen Matters
Okay. I got a couple of of solid students that are saying, I want to do this. Great. Let's, let's equip them. Let's give them the tools and let's let them run with it. And they did. And we're still doing those today. And those guys are married and living for Jesus, you know, as adults now. And what they started is still going, which is really cool.
00:31:08
NextGen Matters
And we have a girl's Bible study that is done as well now. And those are both student led. We do have an adult there to make sure, you know, that they're not speaking heresy. yeah sure And to help help equip them and help them learn. How do you how do you lead a discussion? Because they're learning that.
00:31:27
NextGen Matters
Because guess what? Once they graduate, they're adults. You're giving them the learner's permit before they have the driver's license. Yes, absolutely. The adult sitting next to them driving the vehicle. Yep. That's my metaphor in that. Yep.
00:31:38
NextGen Matters
And so they're, they're going through and we give them the structure of what the study is like we have done. we just did, uh, we're currently with the guys in, they're doing a study on David.
00:31:50
NextGen Matters
So they're walking through the life of David. They have done the book of James before. The girls are in Philippians right now. And what I hope you hear is that they're studying the Bible. yes We're not just giving them some surface level. Here's a thing. Talk about these same questions that you've heard a million times. Talk about your feels. They're actually studying the Bible and learning about it. And that when we equip the leaders, we give them understanding of how do you use a commentary?
00:32:18
NextGen Matters
How do you actually break down that passage and extract the, what the author's intent was? You know, we're teaching them right how to do that.
00:32:28
NextGen Matters
And what, what we have found is that those are the students that end up coming out going, I think God wants me to do this.
Advice for New and Experienced Leaders
00:32:35
NextGen Matters
And what, what you we're talking about too, and, and, Listener, understand this. There's in these five W's, there's always going to be overlap and interplay. Correct. That's that's a beautiful thing. They're not five silos. Yep.
00:32:48
NextGen Matters
I said that in my, back in 17, episode 17, I talked about that. They're not five silos of ministry. They actually integrate well. because you're doing this one, the work of the ministry, teaching them to do the work of the ministry, but it's also integrated with a W of the word.
00:33:02
NextGen Matters
yeah so anyway, Hey, we're going to bring this to a close. So I want you to think of some encouragement, maybe something you've learned, falling off the bike, i've done that or, or, uh, just so, or maybe you're doing things well, but something you've learned that you would love to share with someone who let's take two different, levels, if you will. Someone who is newer in ministry, you've been 10, 15 years in, somebody who's newer in ministry that may feel like, well, bro, I'm not i'm not there yet. I can't do all that.
00:33:34
NextGen Matters
What could I do now? Yeah, so for that person, first of all, you don't have to do it all right now. Good. Thank you for saying that. That's huge because, you know, when I was young in the ministry, you just feel like, one, you want to do I mean, you remember how I was when I first came into class. I was super cocky. I thought I knew everything because I was at a church for a year doing ministry when I had no real business doing it at the time. But I came in thinking I knew everything and i just wanted to do all that. The classroom, I was like, what am I learning in here? I can just go out and do it.
00:34:08
NextGen Matters
What I had to figure out was that, okay, pump the brakes. Yep. it's It's not all has to be done right now. And then when I got into it, I still felt the pressure of, oh man, these students have to learn all of this. This has to happen. Camp has to happen. This has to happen. Mission trips have happen. Listen, if you don't do a mission trip for the first two years, that's okay.
00:34:28
NextGen Matters
If you're first and foremost just working on establishing a a core leadership team and establishing what does it look like to disciple these kids?
00:34:39
NextGen Matters
it's okay to say to your, to your lead pastor and to have that conversation and say, Hey, you know what? I really don't. I think that if we try and jump into this and this right now, we can do it, but it's not going to be great.
00:34:53
NextGen Matters
Jesus didn't, have the 12 11 at that point, Matthew 28, Judas is out. He's dead at that point, honestly. But when Jesus commissions at the 11 to go into all the world, then you think acts one as well. Yeah.
00:35:08
NextGen Matters
That came at the end of that three year process, Matthew 10, let's just go out more locally. And then those spheres of influence, those circles got bigger and bigger and bigger.
00:35:21
NextGen Matters
In other words, he didn't throw them in the deep end first. yeah He took them in the shallow end. And so to that younger leader, yeah i maybe not i may not be doing a trip overseas or even this or that,
00:35:35
NextGen Matters
But what could you do? yeah Even as just an afternoon of serving some, this is my heart, serving the grandmas and grandpas in your church, who rakes their leaves? They've giving to your church, oh my goodness, for decades.
00:35:49
NextGen Matters
The number one giving age group in any church typically are the ones that are on assisted living.
00:35:56
NextGen Matters
The ones who are the least giving are the younger ones who typically complain the most who are the customers. Yeah. And so what I'm saying is I think of my own grandparents with the Lord now, but when they were shoveling snow in their eighties and even my grandmother nineties, upstate New York,
00:36:15
NextGen Matters
I'm thinking who's helping her clean a garage. Yeah. Okay, dude. So that you, you can do that. There are people in your church, Galatians 6, 10, let us do good to all, especially those of the household of faith. So just don't focus on what you can't do. let's That's, that's, that's the major leagues. Don't think of it like major leagues and minor leagues. Think of it like, what can we do now to get the momentum, get the ball rolling? Well, and if I may, that's super practical. And I want to lean into the practical of that. Yeah.
00:36:43
NextGen Matters
i would I would ask you, or have you built a relationship with the deacons in your church? Because typically the deacons are the ones that do those things. yeah And if you build a relationship with them, that's where you're going to get that. you're also goingnna You're also going to gain some volunteers through that. yeah yeah and then And then in addition to that, I would i would ask that younger, you know fresh in youth pastor, are you planning on staying?
00:37:06
NextGen Matters
Right. This is not a fast game. You have to expect that this is going to take time. Play the long game. And that's not a popular thing because you're going to get an offer that looks better at some point.
00:37:22
NextGen Matters
And I've been here for seven years now. And I don't plan on going anywhere. Praise God. and And you know what? I'm seeing, and and I've i heard this for years and years and years, you will see the most fruit in your ministry after five years.
00:37:38
NextGen Matters
not not And don't get me wrong, we saw a lot of fruit in those first five. But now that we have so much established, and it took all this time to get it there,
00:37:50
NextGen Matters
We're able to level up. We're able to actually do more because now I have leaders that have been so established and equipped that they're running the mission trip and I'm not, which means I can go a partner for another one.
00:38:03
NextGen Matters
I have leaders that are running those guys and girls Bible studies and I don't have to go to them every single week and sacrifice my wife and my kids. That's huge, which gives me longevity, which gives me the opportunity to go make influential decisions on other areas. It allows me to to focus on teaching more because I don't want that to be shallow.
00:38:24
NextGen Matters
I don't feel the need to pull something manufactured because I have the time to actually pray through and study and build the teaching. Right. So I would tell you, be in it for the long game. okay And please don't use student ministry as a stepping stool.
Balancing Ministry and Personal Life
00:38:40
NextGen Matters
Amen. So let's talk to and your peers and older. Just on a brief thought here, what would you say to encourage them?
00:38:53
NextGen Matters
Right now, people in my circles that are my age and older, they're just tired. That's what i hear. That's what I hear. is what I keep hearing. I'm like, hey, how are you doing? And I'm guilty of saying this. I'm good.
00:39:05
NextGen Matters
I'm tired. I'm exhausted right now. it's It's busy. I'm good, but busy. Okay, so you're not good. Okay. Harmony is the word that i I tend to go to because balance doesn't exist.
00:39:19
NextGen Matters
Everything's going to always be out of balance at some point. There are seasons when you've got camp going on where the balance is going to shift. you've got But then other times that's a very good word other times it's going to shift the other way and you're going have less going on. Lean into those times.
00:39:35
NextGen Matters
and find harmony of how these things work cohesively throughout your life. That's what's helped me and my wife the most is is going, okay, hey, we know that we're coming up on a season where I'm traveling a bit.
00:39:49
NextGen Matters
yeah just had a Just had a conference, going to London next month. Those are times where I'm not going to be with Haley. So in between those trips, guess what we're doing? we're We're making sure that we have more time.
00:40:03
NextGen Matters
And I would encourage you to know it is okay for you to look at your calendar and say, I have to, for my family, my first ministry, not put anything on the calendar in this time.
00:40:18
NextGen Matters
That might mean that it goes somewhere else or it might mean you don't do it and that's okay because what you do is go, this is important. I want to do it, but I've got to build somebody up to do it because I can't. yeah Know your limits so that you can have harmony and not burn out and not sacrifice your family on the altar of ministry because that is not going to work out.
Conclusion and Contact Information
00:40:43
NextGen Matters
Wow. Well, that's why I do every so often this sustainable cohort, to be honest. Yep. I'm not trying to do it. It's a shameless plug. It's it's a truth. Everyone who took that, you were in, it there was three or four different groups two and three years ago. I did four different groups.
00:40:59
NextGen Matters
Literally to the person. And these are, most of you were 10 years and up in ministry. And I kept hearing then. I'm tired. Some are like, honestly, now that I feel safe to talk, i'm I'm ready to lead ministry.
00:41:13
NextGen Matters
and And good people. Godly leaders. The number of people that I was in class with yeah that aren't in ministry now. Oh, it's shocking. i'm I'm over here going, there's only like two of us left.
00:41:23
NextGen Matters
What happened? I know. You know? I know.
00:41:28
NextGen Matters
It's scary. Yeah. So I would say to the leader that's been in the in in the ministry a long time, your work is not in vain.
00:41:38
NextGen Matters
Take a breath in. I mean this. Take a deep breath in Exhale. Look around you and say and see it. God God is good.
00:41:49
NextGen Matters
Yeah. God is good. Look what he's doing. Have a gratitude, you know, a heart of gratitude and look around and go, God is doing these things. I love your words, bro. I love that harmony versus balance. So, all right. Hey, thank you.
00:42:03
NextGen Matters
Thanks for letting hang out in your studio. I need to get one of these. Yeah. Well, thanks for, thanks for letting me be a part of it. All right Like I said, just again, I'm not, we don't have it going on perfect in everything. We've got our struggles. We're learning.
00:42:17
NextGen Matters
And we, I just hope that there's a little bit of something that you can pull from what we're doing. yeah Well, I'm putting your email address in the show notes so okay they can reach out if they want to reach out to you. Sounds great. Appreciate that because we all need resources. We all need connections. And that's why I say so much of what we do. Relationally empowering.
00:42:40
NextGen Matters
ministry leaders to impact the next generation. Everything I do with NextGen matters. I want to be relational about it, but also make sure that you're feeling empowered. yeah So you helped me facilitate that today. Thank you, my friend.
00:42:54
NextGen Matters
yeah God bless you, man. Take care.