Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 19: Mary Jane Jackson & Anna Mansdotter
85 Plays1 year ago
Happy Monday Guys!
We got another twofer for you this week! Lana goes over the case of Mary Jane Jackson, a woman you wouldn't want to double-cross. Ellie reviews a Swedish case on Anna Mansdotter, a VERY loving mother.
Thank you so much for listening! See you next week!
Sources:
The People of Gallatin Street | New Orleans Historical
Bricktop (authorstevewillard.com)
Gallatin Street: An Introduction | New Orleans Historical
Jackson, Mary Jane (b. 1836) | Encyclopedia.com
The Ghosts of Gallatin Street | Former red light district in New Orleans (ghostcitytours.com)
Mary Jane Jackson | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers
Anna Mansdotter | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers
--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/scared-but-curious/support
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Theme
00:00:04
Speaker
Hey guys, I'm Lana. And I'm Ellie. And welcome to Scared But Curious.
Natural Deodorants and Wild Deodorant
00:00:18
Speaker
Are you looking to make your personal care routine more ego-conscious? Do you want to prioritize products that are kind to both your body and the planet? Natural deodorants are a great place to start. And that is where wild deodorant comes in.
00:00:33
Speaker
Wild is a natural deodorant that actually works. It has a fully sustainable design and an aluminum case that you get for life. And you get refills that you just pop right in. Wild refills are made of compostable bamboo pulp, which is super unique. I've never heard of a deodorant brand using bamboo pulp. I don't think I've ever heard of bamboo pulp altogether. They are customizable. You can choose your container color and choose any of the amazing scents they have to offer.
00:01:02
Speaker
fresh cotton and sea salt, coconut dreams, mint and eucalyptus, jasmine and mandarin blossom, sandalwood and patchouli, and orange and neroli.
00:01:15
Speaker
There are also limited time since and cases as well. Wild is super convenient. There's a flexible subscription option or you can purchase just as one-offs. Refillables are delivered no hassle straight to your mailbox. So go wild today with a special discount of 25% off your first
Recording Mishaps: A Humorous Anecdote
00:01:34
Speaker
order. When you use code SBCP at checkout, go to wearewild.com and use code SBCP at checkout. Enjoy.
The Infamous Mary Jane Jackson, aka Bricktop
00:01:57
Speaker
okay what did we say earlier at the oh we said we were singing roads at the same time but all we said was the word roads roads at the same time yeah that was fucking great that was just us honestly just us why wasn't that on recording damn it
00:02:22
Speaker
But Jelma Felma was. But Jelma Felma. Jelma building filming. You know what? I can't type and talk at the same time, okay? Neither can I. I just said Jelma Felma. And yet they're like, you know what? You guys would be great at a podcast. And I'm like, are you sure?
00:03:05
Speaker
Road. Turn left on this next road. God damn it. We'll be amusing ourselves, but no one else. Oh my God. God damn it.
00:03:11
Speaker
I don't think you understand what that means.
00:03:33
Speaker
okay all right now that we've taken 15 years yeah so what are you going to be telling me today telling you're telling a story so i guess what are you well happy monday oh yes oh my goodness gracious we happy monday it's been a while but this is our um early morning recording
00:04:01
Speaker
So we are recording very, or at least for me, very early, not very early in the morning, because it's like 9 a.m., but we've been, I've been up since five. Yes. So how fun was that? I don't know how it's going to be. I mean, we've seen how it's going to be. Okay. What story will you be telling me today? Well, I'm going to be telling you about Mary Jane Jackson.
00:04:28
Speaker
or AKA Bricktop, which every time I hear that name, I thought the same thing too. Every time I think of her nickname, I think of that one song that she's a brick house. This lady, this Mary Jane Jackson Bricktop girl,
00:04:53
Speaker
I'm going to going to be referring to her as just Mary. Just remember that she has a nickname. It's brick top and I'll tell you why. But yeah, so but she's just going to be married for the story. This wears a brick on top of her head at all times. It's just a brick. Yeah, it's just a brick type.
00:05:16
Speaker
I just pictured it and like that's how she like kills people and she's just like, look at that button. Okay, but with like how crazy this lady is, I would not. You wouldn't go faster.
00:05:40
Speaker
Oh my gosh, I just, yeah, I just pictured like, you know how giraffes fight with their necks? He looks so stupid. He just stops pretending to fight like giraffes.
00:06:00
Speaker
Trust me, you guys don't want to see that. No, no. Oh, God. So this lady is, like I said, hitting people with bricks on top of
Partnership with Bridget Fury and Brothel Business
00:06:12
Speaker
her head isn't far fetched. She is
00:06:16
Speaker
insane. This lady is okay. She's like crazy and amazing. And also like a fucking badass. It is I I'm so ready to see your reaction to this story. I'm so ready.
00:06:32
Speaker
so okay all right we're gonna give you my face just fyi guys if you can hear jingling in the background i have a cat he is literally laying on the microphone so we're gonna start so mary jackson was born on gridden street new orleans in 1836 so we're going
00:06:56
Speaker
way back. And since this case is so old, I couldn't find anything about her parents and what her life was like growing up. But yeah, I'm guessing it's pretty bad because or at least at least she grew up very poor. Because she started when she was 14, she became a sex worker. And life life was not kind.
00:07:22
Speaker
Yeah, so she started doing sex work on Gatlin Street in New Orleans, which is now a French marketplace. So if you look it up, it's not Gatlin Street anymore. But Gatlin Street was kind of the place in New Orleans if you needed anything illegal. It was said that the police would avoid this area at all costs if they didn't have a partner.
00:07:52
Speaker
And even if they did have a partner, they really, really didn't want to even touch this street. Damn. It's like when Mufasa's talking to Simba. This is all the light touches. It's like everywhere the light touches is ours.
00:08:11
Speaker
What about that over there? We don't go there. You don't go there. So the lack of police presence created an environment where crime and violence were the things that ruled the street. And Gatlin Street housed some of the most dangerous criminals, sex workers, and street gangs. And at this time, sex work was New Orleans second most profitable industry. That meant that Gatlin Street was filled to the brim
00:08:41
Speaker
with men and women from the port of New Orleans coming and going at all times. Most of the sex workers were immigrant women who didn't have anywhere else to go and Gatlin Street is actually very close to the port and so they would pretty much get off the boat and they really wouldn't go that far. They would
00:09:06
Speaker
kind of get stuck in on gallon street and kind of pulled in, you know, there's, that's kind of where all the like boarding houses were all of the, all of everything. And so these women who had nowhere else these immigrant women, yeah, they would work and live close to it.
00:09:26
Speaker
Exactly. And like I said, Gatlin Street was pretty close to the port. And so the primary patrons of Gatlin Street were sailors and STDs and STIs became so rampant and spread quickly among the sailors and sex workers. Yeah.
A Swedish Murder: Anna, Per, and the Dark Secret
00:09:46
Speaker
So I read this article and it said that once these women were in the industry, they died within four years. And at least 50 of them. Oh my god. Yeah. And at least 50 of them had venereal diseases. So they died due to those? So if it wasn't the disease that killed them, it was the violent customers that did.
00:10:10
Speaker
Oh man. Mm hmm. Man, they're just trying to survive. And I'm just the four years that's crazy. That's not long at all. No, that's really not. And so this was the life that Mary Jackson got exposed to at such a young age. Like I said, she started sex work at 14.
00:10:38
Speaker
And so that's crazy though, like if she did at 18, that's crazy to me. Yeah, but because she is, like I said, because she's a badass.
00:10:54
Speaker
Mary adapted and she made a name for herself. She was said to be this robust, they quote, robust and feisty redhead, which is how she got her name, Bricktop, because of her red hair.
00:11:11
Speaker
Ah, because there's no other red things in the world. Nope, never. What? Could you imagine if her name was like they nicknamed her like fire hydrant? Hey, hydrant, come over here. Come over here. I'm just fire. Fire. Hey, fire, come here. Actually, I could see some celebrity naming their kid that.
00:11:42
Speaker
but spelled with a Y like that festival that I got. Okay. And she was said to not be a proper lady, which I back then I think I'm okay with that. I don't think I'd want to be a proper lady back then. Because it was said that she would win any brawl that she ever got into man or woman. It did not matter. She would always win.
00:12:10
Speaker
I mean, yeah, I love her. I just just I love her. So and even though she was a favorite with the men, because apparently they like that. They like that a domineering side that just goes to show you that you don't have to be a like cute petite, you know, little quiet lady.
00:12:35
Speaker
You can be however you want to be. And again, like we said, like we said in a couple of episodes ago, there's someone for everyone. Literally. And even though she was a favorite with the men, Mary would actually get kicked out of many brothels because she would scare the other sex workers. Yeah. Damn. Yeah.
00:13:01
Speaker
What? I love her. I'm I love her. Okay, and you'll see why. So like I said, men loved Mary, but she was a force to be reckoned with a force. And one story that I read
00:13:18
Speaker
She was dating this bartender, and she really, really liked him. Like, she thought, okay, we're gonna settle down, all that kind of stuff. They were dating for three years, okay? And back then... You were gonna die one more year, it's over, so girl. Get married, hello. Time's running out. Exactly. But one day, he broke off. You're almost 17. Yeah, get it.
00:13:48
Speaker
And so one day he just broke it off and threw her out of the bar. And I don't know why, I could not find why, but this girl, my angel, she quickly was like, no, I know my worth, I'm a bad bitch. So she walked back into the bar and brutalized this man so badly that she ripped off his ear
00:14:16
Speaker
and half of his face oh oh i know what that's what i'm saying is this case goes from zero to one hundred and then you said face i know what
00:14:39
Speaker
I know. But the crazy part was is that he survived. And this is back in like the 1880 or 1830s. Yeah, or no, I guess not 1830s, because she's like 14. So like 1850s, this, like I'm saying, in this case, just gets weirder and crazier. Get ready, buckle in. Her next known victim wouldn't be so lucky.
00:15:01
Speaker
See, Mary had this knife that was custom made for her. It had two five inch blades on either side of a handle in the middle. So you hold onto the middle and it has two blades coming out. And I'll post a picture on Instagram. Double-sided dagger type thing. Yeah, yes, exactly. That's exactly what it was. And she would find any excuse to use it or show it off. She loved it.
00:15:30
Speaker
How do you nonchalantly show off a double-sided knife like that? Like, hey, watch this. Like, what do you... Why is it a gun? Why is it a gun all of a sudden? No, that was a ringing noise. Like, you know, like, you know, you pull out a sword and it makes a little... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, because then like, pew, pew. And I'm like, where did the bullets come from? Hello? My gun, my gun knife.
00:15:57
Speaker
So in 1856, so we're kind of jumping forward a little bit, her first kill was a man that I can't find his name, and I literally can't find anything else about this case, but this man called her a whore to her face, and that's all I know about the case. I'm guessing she stabbed him with a knife, but that's all I got. That's all I know.
00:16:21
Speaker
She's like, oh, you think I'm a whore? Watch this little trick. And then he dies. A few years later.
00:16:32
Speaker
in 1857, a man named Charles Longley, who was said to be almost seven feet tall. I love that his last name is Longley, and he's super tall. Like, would his name have been Shortley? I don't know, man. Back then, they could name themselves anything. Right, right. So he was talking to Mary, and
00:17:00
Speaker
This is so weird. Apparently, they made a bet on which way he would fall if she stabbed him. And she said, I bet you'll fall forward. And he laughed at her. And then she stabbed him. I don't know.
00:17:21
Speaker
He and he ended up dying. Well, yeah, she fucking stabbed him. Which way did he fall, though? She ended up being right because he fell forward. Well, yeah, there you go. At least she knows physics or gravity. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. She's like, listen here. I've killed enough bodies. I know. I know which way they're going to fall.
00:17:47
Speaker
What? Just watch. Listen, Linda. Listen, listen, Linda. Listen. God damn it. Also in 1857, Mary moved in with a lady named Bridget Fury, whose real name was Delia Swift.
00:18:04
Speaker
And I'm just gonna call her- Run, Delia. Well, no. Delia's also great, sort of. I'm just gonna call her Bridget for the rest of this because that's just what she went by. So Bridget was originally from Cincinnati, Ohio, and she was around the same age as Mary, but Bridget became a sex worker at the age of 12.
00:18:33
Speaker
Oh my god. Yeah. So what was your life like to have to? Yeah. And these girls were pretty much inseparable. They were best friends. They I mean, they pretty much grew up together. They and they knew how hard it was, you know, Bridget moved to New Orleans in 1856. And like I said, Mary moved in with her a year later.
00:18:58
Speaker
And actually, Bridget and Mary ended up opening their own brothel together. So they're like business partners, roommates, all that kind of jazz. What kind of what are we? Hmm. I'm lesbian suspicious right now. I don't think so. I just think they were actually friends because you'll see or maybe they were bi. I don't know. But
00:19:26
Speaker
Who knows? They were having a great time, maybe. And later on, they actually grouped up with other rough and tumble sex workers and they made a gang. They became the first ever female gang in US history. So now we're going to be skipping to 1859. And Mary and Bridget and another friend, I don't know who this other friend was, but
00:19:55
Speaker
That's all I could find in the sources. They were at a beer garden, just enjoying themselves, you know, just out on the town for a night. And a man at the table next to them named Laurent Fleury.
00:20:11
Speaker
which it's French, so come at me, bro. No kidding. He complained about their swearing and foul language, and the women tried ignoring him, but when he told them to shut up, Mary replied that he better mind his own business or she would cut his heart out. Yeah, that's a reasonable reaction. Yeah. Exactly. Well, because Mary said this to Laurent,
00:20:40
Speaker
he walked over to Mary and slapped her across the face and yeah well the three women pulled their knives out and attacked him oh and it was at that moment
00:20:57
Speaker
He knew he fucked up. And another man tried to come to the rescue, but one of them severely sliced his face. And so he backed off. He was like, this is not not my not my monkeys, not my circus. I'm out of here.
00:21:15
Speaker
Right? I was about to say, I bet you it was Mary with that double-sided chain. Honestly, honestly. And then even an employee, he pulled out a gun and fired a shot, but the women attacked him with a brick. And so he backed off as well. The cops told you. Yep, you're right. And when the police arrived, Laurent was dead.
00:21:43
Speaker
on the floor with his pockets cut out. The quiet what? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know why they didn't just take what was in his pockets. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. How do you cut out pockets exactly like and like not have them fall off? I don't know. It must have been some like 18th century witchcraft pockets or something like that. Like I don't know.
00:22:05
Speaker
like inside the vest or something like. Yeah. I honestly don't know. I know that like in the 1600 1600 or something like that with women, they used to actually have like it looked like a purse that went on the inside of your skirt and you would have slits in your skirt. And so you'd have pockets, but you don't cut those out. You just wear them. So I don't I don't know. And the police later found Laurent's pocket
00:22:35
Speaker
in Mary's skirt, and it was used as evidence against her in the murder trial. Well, yeah. Well, shit. You done fucked up. You done, yeah, I was just gonna say that. While awaiting trial, Mary met and fell in love with a crooked guard named John Miller. And this guy is a character.
00:23:06
Speaker
Like, he kind of reminds me of a D&D character that you kind of just had to roll randomly and see what you get. Oh god, okay. So, Miller had lost an arm in a bar fight a few years earlier, and instead of putting a prosthetic on, he attached an iron ball and chain to his stump, like a medieval mace.
00:23:33
Speaker
Wait, so like he does have a prosthetic. It's just not an arm. It's not a... Yeah. I have no words. So, Mary and John started dating, and around this point, Mary was actually set free because the coroner couldn't determine a cause of death on Laurent. You know, the 1800s man. How?
00:24:02
Speaker
the 1800s. Like, and maybe it was the slash or the stab in his chest. I don't know. Apparently, apparently he there was actually I was reading a part where they couldn't tell if he had died from heart failure before, or if he died from the wounds. And they couldn't tell. Yep, like I said, the 1800s, man.
00:24:31
Speaker
wow okay so they pretty much let one of the most dangerous women back on the streets and but this time she had help she's not dangerous just just don't fuck with her honestly just be really nice to her at all times and you'll be fine so mary and john they would lure men
The Execution of Anna in Sweden
00:24:59
Speaker
to dark alleyways in hopes of having sex with Mary, but as soon as they got to these alleyways, John would rob them at, I guess, mace point? Knife point? Mace point?
00:25:18
Speaker
I don't know which point, but he would rob them. Weapon point? Weapon point, yeah. May it be an appendage or an actual weapon? These robberies, they'd go on for a while and they were able to get away with them. But cracks in Mary and John's relationship would start to show around 1861. I have a quick question.
00:25:49
Speaker
How the frickity frack did no one know that these were the people doing it? How many people had an arm that was a mace? I don't know. Like I said, the 1800s, man. What the hell? I don't know. I really don't know. It was the guy with the iron ball and chain as his stump, and they're like, hmm. Which one? Which one's that? Yeah. No, the one with the mace, not the ball and chain.
00:26:19
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, my God. So weird. Not the blonde hair. Yeah. So all of this came to a head when one day they got in a fight and John decided to
Reactions and Reflections on the Cases
00:26:39
Speaker
whip Mary into submission.
00:26:43
Speaker
which if you know anything about Mary, she is not submissive whatsoever. Yeah. She got a knife trick she's about to show you. Want to see a magic trick? For real, you're about to be gone.
00:27:05
Speaker
Of course, because it's Mary, she had other ideas. And she grabbed the whip from Jon and gave him a massive whipping instead. Again, want to see a magic trick? She just took it from him and was like, no, bitch.
00:27:26
Speaker
Oh my God. I have such a mental image right now where he just like curls into a ball like, Oh my God. Ow. Ow. Sorry. It gets better. It gets so much better. Okay. So then John tried to hit Mary with his mace thing and she grabbed the ball in mid air.
00:27:56
Speaker
and then began dragging him around the room while beating him and whipping him even more. What the fuck? I know! Dude!
00:28:17
Speaker
This is why I said just get ready, are you buckled in? Is he, I feel like this is some weird kink. Like this can't be real. I can't just picture like Miss Trentable from Matilda just taking this man with like a ball of gin and just shock putting him. Like shock putting, exactly.
00:28:40
Speaker
Oh my god. Oh my god. Why would you do this to this woman? If she wanted me to submit, I don't do this, but I would call her mommy so fast if she wanted me to. I would not fuck with her. Like okay, I'm done.
00:29:04
Speaker
don't fucking kill me. So he then, now that he's getting swung around the room like a ceiling fan, he pulls out a knife and he tries to stab Mary, but she bit his other arm until he dropped it. Oh. And then turned the knife on John and that is what ultimately killed him. Um.
00:29:36
Speaker
yeah damn all because he wanted a submissive woman in the least submissive person on the planet wow oh my god she's like no she's the type of person that would hump for dominance not for sex like this is like insane so
00:30:03
Speaker
because she just killed John. Mary ended up going to prison again, but this time was actually convicted and given a, are you ready for this? Given a 10 year sentence.
00:30:20
Speaker
Which, I mean, I guess back then was pretty much life. Honestly, I'm surprised she's made it past four years. Like her, it was stacked against her. Yeah, so 10 years. And you would think that this is how the story would end, correct? But it's not. To be honest with you, no. I didn't think this is how it ended. I was like, this bitch is going to like blow up a wall or some shit to get out of prison. I don't know.
00:30:51
Speaker
only nine months into her sentence, a new governor, Governor George F. Shepley, he pretty much did a full pardon of all prisoners and pretty much cleared out the prison. Why? I don't know. I mean,
00:31:12
Speaker
You know, we really need this thing redone. We gotta remodel this whole thing. So let's just get everyone out. Let's just evacuate everyone. It's fine. We're gonna restart, redo. Yeah. Oh, you murdered seven people? It's fine. Just don't do it again, okay? Just don't do it again. We're under new management now.
00:31:34
Speaker
So because of this, because she pretty much got a full pardon, Mary ended up leaving town before anyone could change their mind. Smart. Yeah. And so she never looked back. And actually, she has never been seen or heard from again. Like, we don't know what happened to her. What? Yeah.
00:32:01
Speaker
to this day, we don't know what happened. She probably renamed herself. Oh, yeah. Yep. She just, she just appeared. Like, yeah, just up and disappeared.
00:32:12
Speaker
Damn, she really didn't want to go back to prison. No. And that's all I have. That's the case, the wild case of Mary Bricktop Jane Jackson. And like, I really, I really want to hear what you guys think of this case because it's such a gray area. Because I mean, she definitely was a product of her time. And when
00:32:37
Speaker
it was killed or be killed for a woman. And so these women just looked out and protected each other. So I really want to know like, what your guys's opinion on this case is, especially because it is such a gray area. Kind of like the Jody Bowman case of like, it was such a gray area that it was like, I don't I don't know how to feel.
00:33:03
Speaker
i don't know the amount of times that you've just said gray area we should make it a drinking game they'd be fucking wasted
00:33:14
Speaker
Do it, I dare you. You said it like six times of gray area, and I'm like, ooh, this could be a drinking game. It starts sounding just like, that's what we do. Our next TikTok is just how many times they say gray area. That should have been on our last TikTok. Just cut out the word. That TikTok post where I'm like, what? What? Wait, wait, wait, wait, what? Every time I say what, take a drink.
00:33:42
Speaker
Oh god. We're trying to have people present for the- oh wait, this is the end. No, but my story's next, damn it. Oh, sorry. But yeah, so all I have to say, all I have to say is that Mary is honestly my spirit animal, and I love her so much. Like, I just aspire to at least just have some of the confidence, just just just a little drop of the confidence that this woman has. I
00:34:12
Speaker
Need it. I just need a drop. I just need to be in her general vicinity so that some of it just rubs off on me. And yeah, so that was the case.
Sun and Swell Foods Promotion
00:34:24
Speaker
Yeah, time for your case.
00:34:32
Speaker
We both love and care about the planet, especially the ocean. Did you know that only 9% of plastic is ever recycled? And by 2050, there will be more plastic in the ocean than fish, which is really sad to really think about. That is so sad. But Sun and Swell Foods is trying to change that.
00:34:52
Speaker
Sun and Swell Foods is the nation's first online plastic-free grocery store. They have an amazing assortment of delicious, healthy foods in plastic-free compostable packaging. Don't have access to composting? You can send the used bags back to them via their compostable bag send back program.
00:35:14
Speaker
Sun & Swell is a woman-owned business and is located right in Santa Barbara, California. They have products for the everyday person trying to make easy, sustainable choices. 100% real food, no added preservative ingredients. You can get things in bulk and in little snack packs. My husband loves the snack packs. He takes them for lunch and when we go on hikes or kayaking.
00:35:36
Speaker
If you're looking for a more planet-friendly pantry, shop Sun & Swell and get 20% off site-wide when you go to sunandswellfoods.com and use code SBCP at checkout. That's 20% off your entire order when you use SBCP at sunandswellfoods.com.
00:36:07
Speaker
All right, so we just finished your story and now we're going to talk about my story, which is also a really old one. Honestly, it's it's an old case. Okay. Like we're going back to the 1800s old. Oh, dang. Look at us. We didn't even plan that. No, we did not plan that. So this one takes place in Sweden, which it took a lot of practice to say the city alone. Okay.
00:36:35
Speaker
I was gonna say, I'm like, new country for us. Have fun. Let's slomkey this shit. Yeah, I have to specifically, literally we're about to slomkey this. I had to ask a friend of mine who speaks Swedish when she's in Sweden. No, she speaks Spanish. She speaks Spanish in Sweden. No, I'm just kidding. Okay. Inghua. Inghua. Okay.
00:37:05
Speaker
And for those it's spelled Y-N-G-S-J-O. Oh good. Okay, that's better than I would have said it. I'm really trying. I tried so many times too. Okay. I'm gonna stop saying the word now.
00:37:23
Speaker
before it stops meaning anything. I don't even want to talk about the county that it's in. It took me a while. The name of this woman we're about to speak about, I thought I knew how to say it. I thought I had it right. And then I said, you know, I'm just going to ask. And I was not right. At all. I mean, I was close-ish. Okay, that's good. At least you were close-ish.
00:37:50
Speaker
I was in the ballpark, right? Cause like at least it's like, it's Swedish things. It's kind of like, um, it's kind of like Gaelic where things that look like it should sound like something don't at all. And so like, I'm glad that you were even in the ballpark. So look at you. Right. I'm very proud of myself. Um, so this woman's name is Anna Muans daughter. Okay. Okay. I thought it was man's daughter, but it's,
00:38:19
Speaker
Muans doctor. Okay. Okay. Which means daughter of the moon. I believe is what she told me. Which is not a cool name. I love that name. Okay. Um, we're gonna talk about all of the people involved. Okay. Because it's a lot. So yeah, well, not that many. Actually, there's only like three people involved. Just a lot of name.
00:38:44
Speaker
Yes, a lot of names. So, the son is Per or Per, out of no freaking idea, Per Nilsson, which I know it's not pronounced that, but we're gonna do, I'm doing my best over here. I'm sorry, Sweden. Real sorry. Per married a woman named Hannah
00:39:07
Speaker
Johanna's daughter, Johan's daughter. Okay. Johan's daughter. No, I'm pretty sure it's Jo, right? They didn't want Johan's daughter. If it looks like Johanna, it's Johan. I know that part. Okay. Cool. I got to just trust myself. Okay. Fortunately, again, those are all the people involved. So we're going Anna, Per, and Hannah. Anna's mom, Hannah's wife. Not to get confusing. Okay. Now the main character of this story,
00:39:34
Speaker
is Anna, and unfortunately, there is limited information. There is nothing. Nothing. A lot of the same thing, really, because they're so such limited. That's how I felt about the Benny case. Yeah. And the reason that this information was so limited is because this is 1841, and she was born. I don't know how they kept records back then in Sweden, so I'm not really sure. But Anna was married to a man named
00:40:01
Speaker
Nils Nilsson, which sounds like a made up name, but it's real. Nils Nilsson. Okay. And yeah, it's just Nils Nilsson, maybe. Yeah.
00:40:17
Speaker
I hate it. I already don't like alliteration names. So that is just even worse. I don't trust it. Well, he was actually 13 years older than Anna. But she accepted the age difference due to the fact that she was under the impression that he would take care of her. She was going to be financially and everything was going to be secure, essentially. But it wasn't long before the couple was in debt. Unfortunately, had to fall into poverty.
00:40:47
Speaker
It seems that farming maybe wasn't sustaining the family like I initially thought. And Anna also had three children, but Per was the only one to actually make it to adulthood. All of the other children passed. Nils or Niles still don't know. He would later die in 1883 due to consumption, or tuberculosis for those of you who don't know that they used to call it consumption. Big bummer. So she's now alone.
00:41:16
Speaker
Life was not super easy for a woman raising a child by herself in this time, but ultimately she just wanted her to be happy. They lived together up until adulthood and I guess she didn't
Complex Relationships in the Swedish Murder Case
00:41:30
Speaker
want to let go. I'm not exactly sure, but you can form your opinions. We'll see what you think at the end of this. Okay. So, you know, she wants her son to be happy. So she arranged a marriage between Hannah and Per. Okay.
00:41:46
Speaker
Ultimately, the marriage wasn't a happy one, not because of much else other than Anna. Anna was supposed to move in with her mother, but that didn't happen. So the family was all still together. So Hannah just married into a mom and son household. That's weird. Yeah, which wasn't the plan. Like Hannah even complained to her father that her mother-in-law was the actual cause of the unhappy marriage.
00:42:12
Speaker
So, like, why would that be? I mean, she's just a mean mother-in-law, like, what's going on here? Yeah. Well, don't worry, you'll understand in a couple seconds. Oh, no. And this is where things start to get weird. I know nobody can see her face, but her face was hilarious just then. You're like, weird, and your eyes are shitty. It was perfect. Because I'm like, oh, God.
00:42:39
Speaker
Now it's believed that Anna actually didn't just arrange the marriage to help her now 20 year old son have a life partner, but instead to possibly cover something up. Wait, I know I can, I can see your face and I see you're trying to put it together. So Anna,
00:42:59
Speaker
being the normal mother that she was had some feels about the marriage. You know, she arranged it. You'd think it'd be joy. Yeah. But no, no, it's not joy. It's a current Anna would actually join forces to murder Hannah. What? Yeah. Yeah. So like, what's going on? Right? Why are they playing? I mean,
00:43:25
Speaker
Okay, coming from like a Jewish family, we got your back. You know, we got families back. We got this. Yeah. That's different though. What? Oh, you just wait. So Anna and Per would beat Hannah with a piece of wood and then Anna would strangle her. Right? That seems very personal. Why? Why would you need to do? What is that? Well, then the two would dressed her and placed her as if she'd fallen down the stairs.
00:43:52
Speaker
So they knew to cover it up, right? Now, why the fricity frack would they murder this woman? Well, maybe to put an end to an unhappy marriage. Well, that doesn't make sense because Anna's the reason for it, right? Yeah. Well, this is, uh, I guess that's one of the motives that they went with. But the biggest motive was actually not known until the trial of the murder.
00:44:18
Speaker
Huh. Okay. And this is where Anna comes to light that she's actually really jealous of her son's bride. Wait, what? See, yeah. Per and Anna were very close. Okay. Oh, okay. Some would say too close, like disturbingly close, if you know what I mean. Ew. Ew.
00:44:43
Speaker
Now during the trial, everyone's attention now was like, ooh, Anna and her son were having a sexual relationship. I feel like this is now worse than the Tarly Moore one, or Tarle's more one.
00:44:59
Speaker
Yep, yep. So, and as Moore is talked about, it starts to come to light that it didn't start in his adulthood. It actually started in his youth. And I'm just gonna throw that out there now. That's not a sexual relationship. That's like sexual. That's abuse. That's rape. That's not okay.
00:45:20
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, that's sexual assault, but he was all in. Since neither Anna nor Per really wanted to end the relationship, obviously. They both planned to kill his wife. Grooming! Stop, Anna. Yes, yes it is. Like, he can't consent. Anna, it's gross. Anna, knock it off. Don't do that. That's bad, Anna. Because he thinks this is normal. Exactly. He thinks it's normal, so it's not...
00:45:50
Speaker
But they also knew, I think to an extent that this is not normal because they did their best to cover it up. Right? It was, it's a very interesting, obviously these people needed years of therapy. Um, I could not tell you exactly what's going on here. It's wrong. Yeah. So many levels that's wrong. Yeah.
00:46:16
Speaker
So Hannah was believed to actually find out about the mother-son sexy time that was going on. And she was going to tell everyone about it. And well, they couldn't have that happen, right? So they had to take her out of the equation, just off with her head, they said. No.
00:46:36
Speaker
Anna and Per were actually found guilty. Don't worry. They get caught and sentenced to death for the murder. Oh, wow. Or Hannah was just going to be a face and then she just couldn't keep her mouth shut. Yeah. Apparently. It's so gross, honestly. That is disgusting. Yeah. But Anna was also the last woman in Sweden to be executed. Huh. And this is the 1800s. Yeah.
00:47:03
Speaker
that's crazy pretty cool so weird on August 7th 1890 at 8 a.m. Anna was led to low block and she was dressed up you know like she was going to a party in a white dress of all things white okay weird cuz you know she's innocent
00:47:21
Speaker
Oh, of course. Of course. Pure. She's so pure. She's never done anything in her life. Wow. It was to protect her relationship that was being threatened by his wife. Oh, god, it's gross. And her daughter-in-law. Don't forget, like, okay, you know, it's being threatened by his wife. Ew, that's still gross. But it's also her daughter-in-law.
00:47:44
Speaker
Also like you picked her for your son. That's the other thing too. It's not like he went behind your back. You picked her, you dumbass. Yeah. She was too mouthy. They needed a more submissive cover. Gross. Anyway, so Anna made no opposition as she walked to the scaffold, which I was like, doesn't that like part of a house? No, it's actually where they put their head. I found out.
00:48:12
Speaker
She kneeled at the block and looking at her executioner, which his name was Albert Gustaf Dahlmann. It's a fun name, right? That's nice.
00:48:23
Speaker
He actually hid the axe behind his back so that she didn't have to see what she was about to be killed with. And then an assistant actually blindfolded her. All I gotta say is from this experience, even in the 1800s, Sweden gave so many more shits about the people than America has ever given. It is insane. Like, wow, what it would be like. I don't know. Anyway.
00:48:51
Speaker
So she laid, she was blindfolded, laid down, her head was on the block, she was sobbing, which is kind of a bummer, but... It's just kind of a bummer, I don't know why that was so funny to me, but it was. It's kind of a bummer, she's... It's a bummer, like you were happy before that and then she started crying and you're like, well, now I'm not. Oh man, now she's feeling...
00:49:15
Speaker
Just in case a rock goes home. Just before the impact though, she moaned and lifted her head. So they actually like mid, mid swing. He was like, whoa, she moved. So the assistant had to actually press her head back down so that they could try again. And this time it worked. This time they, they nailed it. So.
00:49:44
Speaker
Sorry, I just pictured all of that and what. But also a weird tidbit that I know.
00:49:55
Speaker
A lot of decapitations and like executions like that didn't actually, the first swing didn't kill them a lot of times. So they'd have to like, like if the axe wasn't too sharp, it wasn't sharp enough, I mean, they would have to whack it multiple times. Yeah, I don't know why I know that, but here we are. And that's why I have a podcast about true crime shit.
00:50:20
Speaker
Yeah, no, actually, I think I do remember reading that somewhere where not all times was it a clean blow. Yeah. And a lot of times they would not use as sharp of a knife for like the really bad people. And it's like, dude, that fucked up. Just kill them. Oh, I'm okay with that. Gross. I'm okay with being like, Oh, no. Oops. Oh, you killed, you know, 20 kids and you're a horrible person. Oh, man. Here, let me just take a pencil.
00:50:47
Speaker
Well, Anna's head rolled and a jet of blood obviously sprayed because her head's gone. But two seconds after the head fell, medical students retrieved and examined it.
00:51:04
Speaker
Because they were they got they had to learn so yeah, let's really actually that's a very good analogy because they really were The medical student claimed that for one minute her eyes seemed blank and alive like they could see him. Oh Yeah, and that was kind of gross, but you want to know what really got me and now it was even more gross. No, I don't well
00:51:31
Speaker
Unfortunately, the axe blade actually struck under her ear and went through her mouth. So the chin was actually still attached to the body. Yeah, pretty gross. So, and the body was also quickly removed undressed and put through scientific experiments because... Why not?
00:51:57
Speaker
Yeah, they had to see. It was even said that her heart was removed while it was still beating is how fast they did it. What a time to be alive. Jesus. What a time. God. The head was assigned to an artist and the artist actually made a death mask. And this death mask is still at a museum, a wax museum in Stockholm called
00:52:25
Speaker
Panopticum. I know I did not write, but if you guys, I'm sure you guys have heard people butcher this word before, so you know what I'm trying to say. It's a wax museum, panopticum in Stockholm. Sorry, I'm just butchering the hell out of that. Now, Per Nilsson was actually pardoned of his death.
00:52:46
Speaker
What? Yeah, I think they felt they realized, ooh, he was groomed. That's true. He was, yeah. So instead he was sentenced to hard labor and for the rest of his life. Okay. But he was somehow released in 1913. Wait, he died? Wide of consumption in 1918. So. No, should have died of consumption in 1913. Yeah, yeah, they released them. Maybe they felt he was like, oh, he gonna die. It's fine. We can't, he can't do anything anymore.
00:53:14
Speaker
We can't have a TB outbreak in the prison. Just let him go. Just throw him. Jesus. He died the same way his dad died. Sucks. That's crazy. Which I mean isn't that uncommon, but still sucks.
00:53:29
Speaker
Yeah. But anyway, the Inghua... Inghua... Oh god, I'm sorry guys. That murder has actually been portrayed in multiple movies and books over the years. So in like 1966, a full length film called... I truly don't actually know.
00:53:53
Speaker
Ing hua mordet? Oh, god. Okay, well... I actually don't know. Oh, in 1986 there was actually also a miniseries, or a part of a miniseries, called the... Skanska?
00:54:12
Speaker
okay moored but this was also entitled the same word that i couldn't pronounce in the previous one so look for the if you want to see this it's spelled uh y n g s j o m o r d e t so yep yep do with that one with what you will the only swedish i know is from the swedish chef so that's that's all i got
00:54:40
Speaker
That's it, that's all I got, so don't ask me. And a fun fact that I found also is that man's daughter, which is not how you say it, Muen's daughter? Oh, which means that the Skanska is actually Skuenska? That would make sense. Oh man, I'm trying, guys. Okay, I digress. Look at you learning Swedish.
00:55:05
Speaker
Look at me before you know it, I'll be fluent. Yes, we can do actually more Swedish cases. I'll be saying something.
00:55:13
Speaker
Summon a demon? As long as it's not Latin, right? That's what demons speak, supposedly. Anna Muen's daughter, along with Sophia Maria Ekwal, which sounds so much less Swedish than the first one, they were actually the most, has become the most infamous female murderers in 19th century Sweden. And that's the case of Anna Muen's daughter.
00:55:42
Speaker
And it was a short one, but a sweet one. That is...
00:55:46
Speaker
It's short and crazy, for sure. Yeah, I was going to say short and sweet. No. No, I don't know. That was so much sweet. That was a roller coaster. What? Yeah. What? I mean, it was very swift. And I think it was only short because there was a lack of information, if I'm honest with you. That makes sense. It's not that there wasn't information.
Episode Conclusion and Social Media Handles
00:56:09
Speaker
It's that I couldn't find it, I guess. Maybe it wasn't Swedish. You will also. Who knows? I just couldn't find it.
00:56:13
Speaker
Yeah, it makes sense that it's like, oh, it was from the early 1900s. But that is, yeah, that is crazy, though, I, I'm not mad that they got death. Because, I mean, literally Hannah did nothing. I think, poor Hannah, if they hadn't killed someone, and they actually just dealt with the repercussions of their very sick relationship, that would have been much better.
00:56:37
Speaker
yeah then actually i'm not sure what if the same what if it's sentenced to death even if they were in an incestual relationship like i don't know what the laws were back then that's true i don't know like what if they were gonna die either way so that's true so mine is i guess takes someone out that's stupid but now they're all dead look how far you got exactly it's like that
00:57:04
Speaker
giant lifted pickup truck that insists on getting in front of you and they only make it a car and maybe two in front of you and you're like, do you feel better, sir? Do you feel better? Look at you. Don't you feel dumb? Yeah. Good job. You've made it two cars.
00:57:19
Speaker
I'll just flip them off because I'm like, oh, you're so cool. Oh, look at you and my little tiny. Oh, so cool. At least I'm not overcompensating. Anything I'm undercompensating because I'm like a fat chick in a small car. I'm short and chubby. Don't fuck with me. Exactly. Oh, man. Well, I guess there's only one more thing to say, really. Yeah. SPC out. SPC out.
00:57:52
Speaker
All right. Thank you so much for listening. And remember to follow us on Instagram at Scared But Curious Pod. And we have a Twitter. Follow us at Scared Curious on Twitter X and join our Scared But Curious Facebook group. And if you're listening on Spotify, please rate us. Five stars, please. And if there are any stories or cases you would love to hear us cover or anything you don't hear enough about, please don't hesitate. Email us at Scared But Curious Pod at gmail.com.