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Episode 30: The Dumas Brothel
64 Plays1 year ago
Happy Monday Guys!
This week is a short episode about the Dumas Brothel in Butte, Montana. This place seemed to have been in operation for forever! Tune in to find out how!
See you next week with another bonkers episode!
Sources:
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Transcript
Introduction and New Beginnings
00:00:04
Speaker
Hey, guys, I'm Lana. And I'm Ellie. And welcome to Scared But Curious. Happy Monday. Happy Monday. How are you? I'm doing good. I got a new computer, as you can see. Yes, I can see it. It's very fancy. It's very fancy. I got it for very cheap, which is so nice. Makes it fancier, really.
00:00:32
Speaker
Exactly. So yeah, I got a new computer. I feel like an actual podcaster now. It's going well. And you're cooking with fire now. I know. I can actually see my whole screen instead of having to do it on a tablet. Yeah. Because that's how you know you're a- You guys didn't know this. Yeah. He was doing this shit on an almost computer. Almost. Yep.
00:00:58
Speaker
Yep, it was pretty good to tablet. So yeah, I it was a lot. But now I have a real computer. And I can actually put two things on the screen and see both of them. It's amazing.
Birthday Banter and Historical Introduction
00:01:13
Speaker
So I heard it was your birthday. So happy birthday. It's not your birthday, but it was your birthday. No, it was your birthday was little birdie told me it was your birthday.
00:01:23
Speaker
Oh damn, you're talking to the bird. Okay, Snow White. See, I told you I'm a dirt worshipper. You're a bird worshipper. It's giving me family guy. Bird is the word right now. No, it's gonna get stuck in my head. It's gonna get stuck in my head. Oh my god, I hate. God damn it.
00:01:51
Speaker
But yeah, so I hope you had a good birthday. Yes. I am now officially the same age as you. Dammit. Yes. Now, who's the old one now, bitch? You. Both of us. Still, you. Both of us. We're both old. So, yeah. I hate it. But all I gotta say, who is going to turn 30 first? Fuck.
00:02:21
Speaker
you. Pablo will.
The Notorious Duma Hotel
00:02:28
Speaker
So what, what story do you have for me today? Well, I have a story that I did not write myself. So this is going to be a very raw reaction.
00:02:45
Speaker
of the Duma Hotel, which is apparently super notorious, but I am not in the know. I'm about to do, but I wasn't before. Oh, it's a ghost adventure. Ghost adventures have been there, so that's why I thought you knew about it. Oh, they have? Yeah. Oh, you know, there's a good chance that I do know it. I've seen every episode, so I have seen it. I've seen episodes multiple times.
00:03:12
Speaker
Exactly. So I've seen it. I just don't know yet. Okay. Anyway, so it was a brothel. Okay. Okay. And we all know what a brothel is, right? It's a... No. Okay. Well, for those of you who don't know what a brothel is, it's like a... Have you ever seen The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas? I love that movie. Go watch that movie. And that's what it is. It's a... Yeah.
00:03:41
Speaker
It's a place where sex workers all exist. It's a place of sex work. Yes. That's this, yes. And it was run from the 1890s to 1982. Whoa. That's a long, lasting brothel. I'm impressed. It's the longest run brothel in United States history. So that's nice, I think.
00:04:10
Speaker
In the mid 1880s, gambling houses and saloons had appeared like all over Butte, Montana, because, oh, if you haven't noticed that this takes place in Butte, Montana.
Butte's Red-Light District and Brothel Culture
00:04:19
Speaker
I didn't say that part, my bad. The activities of the city, can you imagine, was sex work, right? Wow. Gambling and drinking, it seems like a pretty,
00:04:40
Speaker
Crazy. You mean it's not church or worshipping? It's not church. Is there a church? Wow. I don't even know if there's a church here.
00:04:47
Speaker
maybe not yet there should be though but there's 65 saloons there's 65 was there really is this the one that had 65 fucking saloons okay good that's what i thought i was like wait a second i remember there being 65 saloons on a single fucking street no damn it
00:05:11
Speaker
Now, the sex work was generally restricted to Galena and Mercury Street, which doesn't mean anything to me, but I'm assuming those streets are still there today, so you could probably go to it. And that ended by 1888 though, so it's been a minute since there was.
00:05:27
Speaker
Was it legal? Like legal sex work was a thing? Yeah, it's still legal. Sex work is still technically legal. It's up to states like Nevada and Maine. They actually don't care about sex work. So yeah, so it's up to the state's discretion. East Galena Street was mostly just brothels. So that makes sense why it was restricted to those streets, I guess. So these brothels were frequented by miners from the Anaconda copper mine. Wow.
00:05:57
Speaker
That's a really hard thing to say. Anaconda Copper Mining Company is what I meant to say. Oh, I thought you got it. I thought it was good for you. No, no, I almost did. And I said, nope, I completely just stopped after mining. There's more. Oh, okay. It's like the cult.
00:06:16
Speaker
the the the long name which we will be talking about soon yes you guys are going to hear about this long cult it's just way bigger than i thought it was this will be a cute little oh my god oh i'm nine pages in and you haven't even gotten to the cult nope haven't even gone to the cult
00:06:42
Speaker
Apparently, back then, owning brothels, or I guess owning the house in which the brothel was brotheling, I don't know what to say. It wasn't seen as weird or morally wrong. Actually, it was the opposite. Several prominent Montanians. Montanans? Montanans. Montanians? I think it's Montanans. There's no why.
00:07:07
Speaker
I don't, yeah, I just have always said Montanian and I'm apparently have been wrong. I just say people from Montana. Right. I just start, I think it's because I'm a Washingtonian. So I just add Indian at the end of anything. Yeah. I get that. So like I said, a lot of the prominent Montanians, damn it, I did it again. Montanans owned brothels imbued, such as a man called Lee mantle.
00:07:35
Speaker
and he would actually go on to be a US Senator. And he was a brothel owner, turned Senator. What a time to be alive, man. I mean, you said it.
00:07:50
Speaker
You relied heavily on sex work industry to, I guess, flourish their economy. And sex work was honestly like the backbone of Butte at the time, even though there was like a mine, and there's a whole company of mining, but sex work still rose to the occasion, I guess.
00:08:14
Speaker
No pun intended. No pun intended. I didn't mean to, but that's funny. Okay, so the Dumas was built with the intention of being a brothel. So from the get-go, this was built with this intent, which I guess means that the rooms would be nice, right? I read that there was like 43 rooms in this building.
00:08:40
Speaker
43 so it seems like it might be actually that could go either direction Yeah, I could just mean that they were really small. So there's a frack ton of rooms in there. Yeah, or It was a big-ass building. I don't know anyway in 1890 is when this was built by a French Canadian real estate brother. Oh, there's more than one real estate brothers. Oh
00:09:01
Speaker
Real estate brother. Just kidding. There's Arthur and Joseph. Damn it. There's another name. Okay. Arthur and Joseph Nadeau? And this was named after Joseph's wife? Why would it be named after Joseph's wife?
00:09:24
Speaker
Why would you name a brothel after
Duma's Management and Economic Role
00:09:26
Speaker
your wife? I don't know. I really don't know. Was it like, I feel like she was like, you know, on one, okay, you can have a brothel, but only if it's named after me, damn it. So you remember. You remember who the hell you're married to every time you go in there and you get tempted.
00:09:49
Speaker
I feel like that would probably be how that happened. Just so that there wasn't any animosity at home. Yeah, I hope she knew it was a brothel. No, for real. She didn't know? Yeah. It was built to be a brothel, so I'd assume she knew, right? Did she know it was a hotel? Did she think it was a hotel?
00:10:07
Speaker
I don't know. Could you imagine not naming your wife, naming your wife, naming your hotel after your wife, but it's actually a brothel. Yeah. That's fucked up if she didn't know. Okay. So the Dumas had three floors, one underground and then the middle floor, which was the normal entrance was the second floor.
00:10:36
Speaker
And this is where you would be greeted with like elegant decor. It was very fancy looking. The best girls, right? They had to get the best girls on that floor. It's kind of like how I'd imagine the Playboy mansion would be like, right? Yes. Usually the Madams and they would have the best drinks. It was considered a very high class establishment, which is
00:10:59
Speaker
So it's almost like if we had a word for today, it would be almost like to the level of escort service, but you go to them, right? On the top floor is where the Madams lived. And there were multiple that lived in the Duma. Each Madam ran their own business of girls out of this brothel. So there was almost like...
00:11:20
Speaker
It's multiple managers. Yeah, right. Like it was a hub of like, multiple. But you don't have to be like, excuse me team meeting. Yeah, exactly. Excuse me, you're not mine, Adam. I'm not listening to you. She is my man. And as I said, they ran their own business. And if you went out the back door now, there was
00:11:47
Speaker
a padlocked door out the door, I guess. There's like two doors. So you'd go to this door, open the door and there'd be a padlocked door. Now that padlocked door would lead you to something called Pleasant Alley.
00:12:01
Speaker
And this alley went to the basement, the bottom floor of the Dumas, and it ran underneath the street. Now, this was considered for the regular folk, the peasants of the community, so to speak, the ones that can't afford the top floors, right? So the fact that it was called Pleasant Alley, I think,
00:12:27
Speaker
kind of mean because it was not pleasant in any way. It was very unpleasant apparently. Not only is this where the sex workers met with their regulars, the men that would come I guess anytime they had income, but this is also where the girls would sleep and it was the only place that they had to call their own. They had these little rooms that were actually called cribs which
00:12:55
Speaker
a little weird, but I digress. Now these were tiny. It almost brings a whole new meaning. It almost brings a whole new meaning. It's like, welcome to my crib. Yeah. This is a whole, could you imagine MTV Cribs back in this day? Like they go, hi, welcome to my crib. It's a room.
00:13:23
Speaker
Now these were tiny, almost like cells, which, so it's like a prison, but you can leave, I guess. Um, and they were lined up one after another and you could pretty much only fit a bed and maybe a tiny dresser for clothing and a chair. That's about it. I guess to get dressed so you can not fall over. Cause you have to wear 17 layers on a corset. Cause the 1800s of it all.
00:13:49
Speaker
So this place was where all the horrendous stuff happened. The Madams lived upstairs, you know, with the rich whining and dining while the girls had to work way down under, not Australia. I'm talking about the basement. And they were beaten, they were raped and sometimes even murdered on the job, which if you think your job is bad, let me tell you. Literally.
00:14:19
Speaker
I'm just kidding. Your job could be bad, I don't know. But if you are getting murdered on the job, I think it's time to get a new job, okay? Just a little bit. This is your sign to go get a new job. There have been a couple stories of multiple botched abortions that are on record.
00:14:40
Speaker
Can you imagine how many that aren't? Oh, God. Yeah. It wasn't just the violence against the sex workers. It was the men that were also violent towards each other. There were stabbings, shootings, robberies, beatings. It was almost a lawless place. Because that's where you want to have sex, right? Exactly. Who doesn't? That really gets you going. Right? I'm so sorry if you guys can hear that. My... I told you about a new toy.
00:15:07
Speaker
And he's so excited and so he thought that he had to bring it in here. So if you hear squeaking or rustling, yep. He just wants to hear the story. He was just like, thanks for this toy. By 1900, the Dumas was ran by a woman named or a madam named Grace McGinnis.
00:15:28
Speaker
And working for her were a slave, because why wouldn't you? It's the 1800s. A cook, exactly, right? Because it's gross. And everyone did it. And four sex workers. And by 1902, she actually was able to get, I guess, five. So in two years, she was able to get one more sex worker and a musician. Oh. And a musician. You look at her go, there's music now.
00:15:54
Speaker
So you don't just randomly hear men running through the wall. There's something to... Ew. Ew. Could you imagine how awkward that would be? 45 rooms in a building and no music. Nothing to drown out noises. That'd be something else. They'd have to pay me to go there, actually. That's not how that would...
00:16:20
Speaker
That's actually why you get paid so much Sex work in the 1900s would go for oh my god get this 50 cents 50 cents. Okay now back 50 cents Would be equivalent to just guess how much do you think 50 cents is going to be equivalent to? like 40 bucks That would be better
00:16:48
Speaker
Oh no. Cut that in half. It's 20 bucks. 20 bucks. I mean, you know how people say 20 bucks is 20 bucks. Yeah, about gas, not about a woman. That's just wrong. And that honestly was for the madam. The workers would only get around 40% of everything. Less than half. They got less than half for their body. Like $9.
00:17:19
Speaker
Oh man, that's not right. I don't think she had, she got uncomfortable. If you heard that guy, she had a reposition. She was not uncomfortable with the information I was dropping here, which I am not either. 20 bucks and you didn't even get it. It wasn't even a solid 20.
00:17:39
Speaker
I give more money in a tip. In 1903, the Dumas grew to the point where the Dumas operations had to be expanded, and by 1913, it was expanded again with more cribs added. But by 1917, the Red Light District was all but closed thanks to World War I, I guess not a lot of men, and prohibition. And during the next census, sex work pretty much disappeared as a profession altogether, at least in Butte.
00:18:08
Speaker
But the Dumas remained open in 1925 and Valais took over operations for the N'Dua family. And then in 1930, Madame Rose Davis took over. She ran the Dumas until 1940. Then Lillian and Dick Walden took over. So there's, don't worry, there's a pop quiz at the end, guys. Also, what I want to know, how awkward would it be to have a Madame with a husband?
00:18:37
Speaker
Like, I mean, as long as he wasn't there, I feel like it'd be okay. Or maybe, I don't know. I feel like it, maybe it was okay. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Like maybe he was like the muscle. Yeah, I don't know. It's weird. I don't know how I feel about it. And his name's Dick. It's perfect. It's almost like he was made for the job.
00:19:03
Speaker
Now, the Waldens raised the price for sex. So, we're not talking 50 cents anymore, okay? We're talking two bucks, bitches. We're making it. Yeah, all right. Now, $2, which was, I guess, well, I guess the times are very different. We're in like the 1940s as well at this point. But anyway, it was $4,382.
00:19:28
Speaker
Oh, so you, sorry. I'm just thinking like paying $43 and 82 cents. Like it's just such an odd number. Like you could have just rounded it up to 45, but they're like, no, no, no, no. Excuse me. You're, you're short. I know I need two pennies to two. No, wait, you forgot that person behind you. Yeah.
00:19:51
Speaker
Yeah, that's the person behind you for a penny I don't know it's kind of scary sometimes
00:20:12
Speaker
So in 1943, the government shut down all brothels. They said, you know what? This is not okay. You guys are spreading STDs. So it was apparently all about STDs, is really what the stop of it, so they claim. I'm not really 100% sure. So they claim. The Dumas ran on the DL. They said, fuck your chicken strips. I'm going to do what I want to do. So they went underground.
00:20:40
Speaker
And there was like a heavy steel door that was installed in the back of the Dumas. So no more padlock. We're talking like Fort Knox of brothels. Like, speak easy. This is really weird to think about. Yeah. Like open up a little slot. What's the password type thing? Okay. Now Lillian, the Miss Walden, retired in 1950 and the workers got a little more pay because of that, I guess. There was a $5 increase. So I guess they're making what, $7 now?
00:21:11
Speaker
No, they were making $5. Increase, yep, I just reread that sentence. They were increased to $5. Not an increase of $5. Damn, can you imagine two to five? Like, it just bump up here? Here's some $5. Yeah, you're making like, what, a whole what? How much is that? Oh, damn it, we didn't do the conversion.
00:21:34
Speaker
I'm on it. $5 in 1950 was $64.99. Not $65. Not $65. $64.99. Which was without tax before tax.
Decline and Transformation of the Duma
00:21:54
Speaker
She passed on the operations to an Eleanor Knott. And the noo-dwas also sold the building around this time. Eleanor's management was cut short in 1955. She completed suicide when her lover, whom she was going to run away with, never showed. She was found the next day in her bed with alcohol and sleeping pills next to her. That's sad. The next madam was Bonita Farin. She started off Spanish and went very knot.
00:22:23
Speaker
Yeah, she probably married a white guy. Well, probably, yeah. But she died from cancer. Gosh, in 1969, in the late 1960s, the local police closed the three high class brothels, the Hotel Victoria, the Windsor Hotel, and the Duma. In 1970, the Duma was put on the National Register of Historical Places. So it's not going anywhere. That's cool.
00:22:51
Speaker
What about the other ones? What about Windsor Hotel in Victoria? Windsor, I feel like I know that one, but Hotel Victoria. Yeah, I don't know. But the Dumas did not stay closed for long. In 1971, Ruby Garrett, a local, purchased the Dumas and she would pay the police $200 to $300 a month for them to keep their mouth shut. So like, hey, you look the other way and I'm going to give you 200 bucks for it.
00:23:21
Speaker
A month. That's actually pretty good money. A month. You can't even rent a place for that. Let alone have it hush money. Literally. Also, what I had read about this place was that this was not the only time that sex workers and madams and stuff had paid the police to keep them quiet.
00:23:51
Speaker
And so this hush money, which was $200 to $300 in 1971, this would be equivalent to $1,541 to $2,312 a month just for the police to keep their money shut. Holy shit. Holy shit.
00:24:09
Speaker
Now during Ruby's management, the price was $20, which would be $158 and 12 cents. That's such a weird. Excuse me, sir. That's a nickel, not a dime. Yeah, exactly. I need another nickel and two pennies. Thank you. On October 3rd of 1981, there was a robbery where Ruby was pistol whipped and robbed.
00:24:38
Speaker
Oh my god, that's so rude. Uh-huh. So rude. Just take the money. Why you got pistol whip? Oh, I mean, she was, she was feisty. You probably feisty. Okay. The suspect, the suspects ended up getting caught, but the investigation led to the business, which, you know, they all looked at Ruby like, wait, wait, wait, wait a second. What's going on over here? Wait, what do you mean you got pistol whip? What?
00:25:02
Speaker
Why do you have all this money? Wait a second. Yeah, well, they figured that out. Ruby ended up going to prison. And can you guess what she went to prison for? Just think. What is the thing that always gets people? Tax evasion. Yes. She was sent to prison for tax evasion. That's what gets most of them. But only for six months. So it must have not been that bad. Hey, that's my girl Ruby.
00:25:31
Speaker
Yeah, Ruby is like... Shortly after this though, she sold the duma and it was sold to an antique dealer, which he then turned this place into a museum. Okay. Interesting. Is it still a museum? Yeah. Oh, I guess if I just finish the fucking sentence. Okay.
00:25:56
Speaker
It then switched hands. It then switched hands multiple times. In December of 2018, David and Charlie Prince bought the Duma in a tax sale for, oh my God, that is the price of a car, $29,000. Damn.
00:26:21
Speaker
And the rest, yeah. You may know, right? And they're restoring it to its former glory. So as of July of 2023, tours are available every other Saturday from 11 to six. We should go. I'm assuming 11 a.m. to 6 p.m. No. 11 p.m. 6 a.m. 11 p.m. to 6 a.m.
Paranormal Mystique and Tragic Tales
00:26:44
Speaker
Now on these tours, people have been said that they have seen unexplainable things happening. People feel, I guess, mixed emotions in the basement. They go from anger to sadness. And everywhere in the house, there's these really weird cold spots that are, they're different every time. They don't, huh, I guess they're like, uh,
00:27:06
Speaker
Like it's not just like one next to the window, which means it's like, oh, it's the windows open. It's cold outside. I'm trying to think they're a sentient. That's what I'm trying to say. A sentient cold mass that people are coming in. Um, and people are feeling touched by invisible hands.
00:27:25
Speaker
There's reports of disembodied voices moaning and groaning, which I'm not a fan of that. Don't stop making noises. Say something. Don't make noises. Oh yeah, it was a brothel. Moaning, I don't want to hear that. Save that for when you're living. Don't you do this in the afterlife. Yeah, it was a brothel. Imagine that's what you're doing in the afterlife. Hell fucking yeah.
00:27:52
Speaker
All I gotta, I hope it's residual, right? Like just it's- Yeah. I mean, spend all of your afterlife doing that? I'm okay with that. That sounds, that sounds exhausting. Are you kidding me? I'm just stuck there. It ruins the fun. That's why they're groaning. That's why they're groaning. They're like, please make it stop. Stop it. I don't want to do it anymore.
00:28:20
Speaker
Okay, so there's a story of an artist who visited this place and they stayed on the second floor. And this would, I guess, be the main entryway where all the elegant madames and fancy drinks were. And apparently on the second floor, there was light that was very ideal for painting. So each time she sat down to work, she felt compelled to paint a face of a woman. She'd never met this woman, just no idea who the face is.
00:28:47
Speaker
and after multiple failed attempts in painting the same face, she went to another room to paint. The owner saved one of the paintings, and it is a woman in her mid-forties wearing a hat and a small smile. People report seeing a woman with a suitcase walking up the stairs, they believe it to be Eleanor Knott, waiting for the lover who never showed up.
00:29:13
Speaker
Isn't that sad? That's so sad. I know. So there's just a there's just a woman who's just said this woman who's this being painted is Ellen or not. They think so. Yeah. And she's just waiting. She's just waiting for Yeah, I really hope it's residual. It better be because that's sad. She doesn't deserve that. No. Damn.
00:29:42
Speaker
And that is the crazy and very spooky story of the Dumas brothel hotel museum thing. It's a museum now. Yeah, that is a crazy story. I can't believe how long this stuff happened. And I love that the only reason it stopped was because she got investigated.
00:30:10
Speaker
Yeah, because she got pistol whipped. Somebody can't, if she wouldn't have gotten pistol whipped, she would have still, there would have been brothels still to this day, I bet you. Oh yeah, it still would have been. It's now at the Hotel Victoria, you know, the one we mentioned earlier, they just moved it. They just fucking moved it. Yeah. No, I...
Conclusion and Audience Engagement
00:30:32
Speaker
I love this story and I actually was reading something about it and people actually, so for Eleanor, they don't actually know if she committed suicide. The consensus is that she committed suicide over a lover, but they don't actually know 100%. If it was suicide or a murder, because it was the whole you cannot leave mentality,
00:31:01
Speaker
Oh, so it's possible that she was just trying to leave and her pimp didn't want that. Pretty much. But yeah, so apparently it was like, she wanted to like leave and everyone knew and I've seen mixed stories about that of the lady on the staircase and nobody actually knows if it was a suicide or a murder.
00:31:26
Speaker
So, yeah. And as you can tell, my headset died. So it sounds weird now. So I think there's only one last thing to say. Honestly, I think. Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. All right. SBC out. SBC out. I heard myself damn headphones. Oh, god damn it.
00:31:58
Speaker
All right. Thank you so much for listening. And remember to follow us on Instagram at Scared But Curious Pod. And we have a Twitter. Follow us at Scared Curious on Twitter X and join our Scared But Curious Facebook group. And if you're listening on Spotify, please rate us. Five stars, please. And if there are any stories or cases you would love to hear us cover or anything you don't hear enough about, please don't hesitate. Email us at Scared But Curious Pod at gmail.com.