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11: High On Frigga
212 Plays9 days ago
Lauren, Ben, and Rie toast the upcoming Asgardian season. 🌈⚡️
For our esteemed listeners’ consideration:
- The cohosts (more or less) snappily 🫰 recount their weeks in Snap
- Anti-Venom results may vary 🤷♀️
- ⛈️😭 Storm sadgeness in the OTA post-mortem
- All cards from next season ranked and discussed
- Secret Homework: Design a spooooooky card 👻
Follow us on Twitter/Bluesky:
Part of the Snap Judgments Network.
Featured decks:
- Rie’s Destroyer deck
- Ben’s Zabu Surfer deck
- SafetyBlade’s Cobra Blade
- Rie’s Anti-Venom brew
- ce-rie-BRO5
Credits:
- Cover art by Lauren
- Snap On This!! Theme by Ben
- YouTube thumbnail by Lauren's kid, Reggi
Timestamps:
- 0:00:00 Intro / Our Week in Snap
- 0:22:41 New Card: Anti-Venom
- 0:30:32 Next Week's Spotlight: Frigga, Copycat, Red Guardian
- 0:34:38 OTA Discussion
- 0:56:21 November Card Rankings
- 0:57:47 Surtur
- 1:01:22 Frigga
- 1:11:16 Malekith
- 1:18:27 Fenris Wolf
- 1:28:57 Gorr the God Butcher
- 1:37:07 King Eitri
- 1:44:12 Secret Homework: Design a Spooky Card
- 2:00:05 Next Week's Secret Homework
- 2:04:13 Housekeeping / Closing Remarks
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Host Introductions
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey y'all! Totally different intro! Welcome to episode 11, recorded on Halloween 2024, so you know it's going to be extra spooky up in here. um We definitely didn't blow all of our seasonal energy on the Slitsmas special. I'm Lauren Whatevs, here today with ah some of the best people in the Snap community. Let's be real, my regular co-hosts. First up, it's an odd episode, so we're going to, it's just ree.
Alliance Dynamics and Rewards Discussion
00:00:28
Speaker
How was your weekend Snap? And keep it snappy.
00:00:32
Speaker
Okay. We try. It's more of a goal sometimes, an aspiration. Okay. Mine starts with alliances. I want to say, so we noticed this week, they swapped it so that um the personal rewards to max out is like double what it used to be but the um rewards for the alliance are much less and the special reward like the mystery variant or the border is on the personal side and I think like thank you second dinner this is such a good move I think it encourages like
00:01:16
Speaker
greater cooperation, less hostility and alliances because um I don't know how most alliances are, but mine has like a couple people who have, you know, a lot, a lot of points, like triple to 10 times the amount of points of others in the alliance and then kind of somewhat zero or very low and then a mid range, you know, but kind of scaling on the lower side.
00:01:44
Speaker
And, you know, this had to be causing a lot of Alliance turn, I think, like, right for people looking to get max rewards in Alliance, which my alliance wasn't like hitting most weeks, the very last one.
Exploring Destroyer Deck Strategies
00:02:00
Speaker
um So, um, and I, you know, they could have, this is why I wanted to be grateful for it because they could have taken alliances in a different direction. They could have had, um, like competitions where it's like grind for more points for the Alliance. So your Alliance wins a leaderboard and gets rewards. I think it's quite sweaty enough.
00:02:19
Speaker
Right? But I'm saying they could have done that. And I mean, we've seen leagues, right? And ah which would have just meant more of like people trying to get in these ultra competitive leagues, getting kicked out of leagues. And you know, leagues should be a good time for everyone, I think, and everyone should be happy to be.
00:02:37
Speaker
Not certain, not leagues, alliances. You know, in their alliance, I think this was a really good change. For people to get the max reward, they can do that themselves or not, and um I appreciate it. Anyway, I wanted to preface that as a bit of a news and a bit of an appreciation, but my actual week is I got a bounty to do a Destroyer deck, which I haven't in a while. Just wearing some other card, I don't even remember.
00:03:01
Speaker
Normally, I wouldn't pick those up. I usually just try and pick up whatever will fit when i' what I want to play already. um But sometimes, that's not what the bounty board is. I was like, sure, why not? And I need this super fun destroy deck. It's called, as all my destroyer decks always are, it's a Gundam. Sorry.
00:03:27
Speaker
from Gundam Wing. My like, prove me wrong meme with my feet up on the table is like, if you liked an anime in middle school, you love it forever. um Even if it's not that great in retrospect. Okay. um But ah this is so fun. And I think one of the reasons it's so fun is that it beats ah it beats a decent amount of counters for Destroy Decks.
00:03:57
Speaker
such as Cosmo, um et cetera. So it's got Destroyer. And the fun comes in. This is where I think Atuma changed. People probably explored this when he changed, but this is so...
00:04:15
Speaker
Because um you have electro which you can run into a tumor or you can run into lady death strike um You could also after playing a tumor put a nimrod On that a tumor you've got a shuri for the nimrod or for your destroyer um And then because you have that extra energy from electro maybe um you've also got items all in no one there some classic a and Destroy cards. Killmonger, because people playing a lot of Zoo right now in balance. So it's a good tech for not for not a low cost. And then X23 and Wolverine, because they play well with the Tomb of Destroyer.
Rank Climb Experiences and Deck Strategies
00:05:06
Speaker
And then here's the change I'm actually making. I think next time I played the deck, I had Agony in it.
00:05:12
Speaker
Um, you, you want to hit her in the next 23 or Wolverine, but like Nimrod's her only really great target. Um, I think spider ham would be better there. Cause it's like, you know, you're not mad about losing one power. Um, just too small. tech ah Yeah, I think so. I think that's why I have to test it. That's why I didn't just straight out say it because I mean, getting around an X 23, you know, Wolverine is nice.
00:05:40
Speaker
Um, but this like is so much fun when it pops and there's so many times people put down a Cosmo on my electro lane and stuff and I'm like, ah, like you don't even know. Or Lady Deathstrike is, is so, is so fun when you see all the Dracula's. If you do not want to respect a Dracula, let me tell you, Lady Deathstrike is the card. So, um,
00:06:06
Speaker
It's honestly just been a lot of fun. I haven't nimratted in a while, so. and I love the Atuma to to kill a electro through Cosmo. Yeah. You can also electro when you death strike. like Oh, that's very cool too. Yeah. i I guess I know why I don't see more of that, but like also why don't I? I don't know. Yeah, and when we see like electro-viper, electro-blink. And like that that yeah that curves neatly. That strike seems great. Yeah. There's so many good numbers in this.
00:06:43
Speaker
Yeah, like it doesn't always hit, but like a lot of times it does and like I said so many good lines and it's one of those decks people don't expect it, right? People are expecting Deadpool Destroy. That's mostly I feel like what I see out there or that style and so it's like they don't know, they don't know how to counter it. It's throwing, throwing cosmos and stuff around. I mean an armor is still an armor.
00:07:09
Speaker
Wait, that's what's great about it? It's true. Fine, I'll put a Tuma in the armor lane. That'll protect him from both their Shang and my Destroyer. You know what I mean? You have all these options to play around the typical counters to destroy. That's fun. Also, I never play Electro, so that's been a good time. a and That was my week. I'm sorry, I took way long. That was not snappy. Oh, nice oh those that was interesting. and Good. Yeah.
00:07:39
Speaker
So yeah. All right. We'll throw it over to Ben then. Ben Roller, how was your week in snap? Oh, okay. Well, my week in snap. I will endeavor to keep it snappy as always. Um, hashtag pod goals, part three. Are we doing that this month? I wasn't sure for a minute, but I don't know. Yeah. The, the SP thing has been a bit of a.
00:08:05
Speaker
I don't know. Yeah, there was a valley and now I am back up at a summit or whatever. I don't know. I'm getting back up there again. It might be worth pushing for it. It might not. I don't know. I've proven I can do it, but it might be more time than I really want to throw at it in this final week to make the top one thousand to the global leaderboard. But I don't know. I might just get there playing for funsies because it's been going well.
00:08:35
Speaker
ah The deck that has been doing the best for me right now is a Zabu Surfer deck that I built earlier in the month. And then I sort of set it aside because I was getting into more ah experimental ideas and stuff sort of based on it. But this was like safe and worked. And and it's it's ah it's always good to keep the safe decks that work around so that you can go back to those later.
00:09:00
Speaker
um So that's Aranya, Zabu, Forge, Jeff, Brood, Silver Surfer, Red Guardian, Hope Summers, Sebastian Shaw, Absorbing Man, Scarlet Spider, and Gwenpool. Scarlet Spider just doing and work. um I still believe in this card very much. And ah Red Guardian. ah hell hell of a Hell of a card. Really ah turns off a lot of stuff.
00:09:27
Speaker
um other deck I've been playing is the deck from last week's Square, Scorn Master, the discard deck with Sword Master and Scorn, Gambit, Grand Master, all the stuff.
00:09:42
Speaker
i ah Yeah, i really I really enjoy playing that deck. I was playing that deck when I ran into King of Bros, who knocked me out of Snap Judgment's League, ah mentioned a couple weeks ago. Shout out to King of Bros. Congratulations on getting second place in our pod.
00:09:59
Speaker
um lost ah odds at the end or something. But I think I heard that they beat Caesar, which is impressive. They sure did beat Caesar, which is impressive. So congratulations to King of Bros. And ah I was also pleased that when I ran into King of Bros. on the ladder, I was playing the deck from the square that I had put out a few days earlier. And I just I love ah I don't know. I think it's funny to be
Comparing Pokemon TCG App to Marvel Snap
00:10:32
Speaker
playing the thing that I told everyone I would be playing and also like, I don't know. I'm a firm believer in playing the hits. And so I always want to be talking about the decks I'm actually playing so that if you see me on the ladder, you you know that it'll be something that I either have talked about or I'm going to talk about on the podcast. I don't know. I just think that's kind of fun and cool.
00:10:54
Speaker
um What other decks have I been playing? Oh yes, for the Weekend Mission, I ah dusted off my toxin ideas and um kept playing that. Even after I had completed the Weekend Mission, I was having fun doing bounce things and experimenting there. um Yeah, I still think Sage is a beast, as I said last week. Just a real good card.
00:11:23
Speaker
um I wish beasts were wiser so you could say sage is a beast and beast is a sage. Beast is pretty sage though. He does have those sayings. He's got those 10-cent words and literary illusions and things and he's always, you know, saying high school English teacher shit. Maybe we could say that then.
00:11:49
Speaker
Yeah, I think we could. I think it was perfectly fair. um In my week, you know, slightly snap adjacent, I tried the Pokemon trading card game pocket mobile app thing and um big shrug. i I love the Pokemon trading card game, or I have very strong positive associations, because it it was where the the Benjamin Roller card game journey began, well, those many years ago. But um yeah, don't I don't know about this. ah It's not as much fun as Marvel Snap is what I will say about it. But I recommend folks check it out if they're curious. And ah yeah.
00:12:34
Speaker
That's a weak and snap and a snap adjacent thing for me. I want to agree on Pokemon. i I actually, my first, my entry into TCGs was magic. I just, I had a friend whose brother had handed him a bunch of like the original magic cards. So we played that before Pokemon came out, but I did also play a lot of Pokemon TCG and I love the IP, especially the video games. The mobile game I've been playing for like a month because I flew to New Zealand as so many did.
00:13:05
Speaker
It has some interesting ideas. it's very like the The collection aspect of it is interesting, but even the being able to open two boosts, you get 10 cards every day for free. and That's like it's really novel and exciting at first, but then you start getting all repeats or you get packs that don't have anything rare or special in it. and it's just like It lost its luster really fast.
00:13:25
Speaker
um I have to admit, I still haven't played a single match against a human in that game. Like I've played against AI. Yeah, I've done tons of the AI matches. I finished almost every single one. I think I have like two left at the highest difficulty. um My sample size is one, but um everybody disconnects when they start losing. ah Everybody. yeah By which I mean the one person I played last night ah disconnected when they started losing. So be aware of that if you find that shit obnoxious.
00:13:55
Speaker
Yeah, I've just found it so slow. like It does have some interesting decisions to make, but I just feel like I could get that experience so much more compact by playing Marvel Snap. So I have very little interest. That said, it takes like five minutes to go in and get my packs every day. So I'm going to stick with it a little while longer.
00:14:14
Speaker
I don't know where it's going to go. I don't know where it's going to go. Currencies and items to reduce cooldown timers and like the whole thing is so inscrutable. I don't know. I didn't mean to get this deep into it, but yeah, this is not a game for serious.
00:14:30
Speaker
My experience is that I downloaded it. um I have opened some packs. I have not unlocked being able to play the card game that is within this collection. Yeah, I found that to be a choice. Somewhere there's a card game in there. I have not leveled up enough to play it yet, you know, any day now. It did give me permission to play another phone game that is honestly better for what Pokémon Pocket is for me, but I will save that friend entered and and because it's way too off-topic.
00:15:02
Speaker
um but about youre week or did you Where are we at? What's going on? I've got a few things to say besides Pokemon. um we go I think my ranked climb has been going kind of like Ben's. like um'm I'm just playing for fun, but it's been going well. I peaked in the top 10,000. I hit 9,099, something like like you know barely in the top 10,000. And then the next match I dropped back to to ah below 10,000.
00:15:30
Speaker
um But considering I came from 28,000 after ah clip hunting, that's pretty good. um Yeah, it feels like, you know, I'm like one or two seasons of of this, like, playing for fun, but also playing kind of well before I can, like, take it seriously ah for another season. So I like that. It's fun. um I did get an avatar this month that I wanted to give an Infinity Border, the Nightmare Peach Momoko, Captain Marvel, where she's got, like, black dude coming out of her neck. Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:02
Speaker
You know, when Rhee was talking about the darkness calling to her and I'm like, oh, I have this avatar
Infinity Conquest and Card Draw Experiences
00:16:06
Speaker
that's kind of like calling to me and I i want to be able to rock that one. Anyway, I got it on my second run on Infinity Conquest. I used a safety blade deck. It's called Cobra Blade. Of course, all the decks we're talking about will be in the show notes and stuff, but I'll read it off right now.
00:16:22
Speaker
that deck too for my I got okay I sorry I just like you're fine I did play one of my first infinity ticket yesterday and I got to match five and I lost I'm not even gonna say the deck I lost you cuz it's embarrassing but like it's always down so it's hard to get to all the way to the fourth match and fight it out to like five health each or whatever I lost my first Infinity run against a sub-optimal Destroy Deck, so I will disclose that. I played poorly, and it was one of the rare instances where I felt at a disadvantage because I wasn't using a tracker, because I was like, I think I've seen all 12 cards, but I'm not sure. If they have null, I'm losing, but I'm pretty sure I've seen everything and they don't have null, and then they had null.
00:17:07
Speaker
um All right, I'm just going to reveal it because, OK, I played all my five games in a row. I was very tired in the last one, like really out of it. I lost to an Agatha. And you know why? Because my spider ham. I wasn't I. I didn't realize, OK, they were playing the pixel Agatha and their title was playing Agatha.
00:17:35
Speaker
And I'm like, and they never are actually playing Agatha, not in Infinity Conquest. And I was just kind of mindlessly biased. This is my fifth. met I played so long for hours, and I had a headache, and I was tired. And it took me until like game like the fourth game with them. I'm like, oh,
00:18:01
Speaker
And then finally I held back the spider hand, but like it was too late. It was too late. You lost too many cubes. And then I got locked into some bad RNG and like, you know, so I didn't have the cubes. Didn't have the cubes to spare. Space out your games, don't play match five, you know. Okay, so that deck list, this is a safety blade deck. It's Kitty Pride, Silver Sable, Maria Hill, Zabu,
00:18:29
Speaker
Hawkeye, ah Kate Bishop. At this point, you can you might be able to tell this is a Wiccan deck. like These are all cards that make it very easy to to ramp into Wiccan. Marvel Boy, still good. Rogue, Copycat, Shang-Chi, Gwenpool, Wiccan, and Elias. um I have loved this deck. It's probably my...
00:18:53
Speaker
Oh yeah, go ahead. Different version of this deck, so I call my deck cobra ree, but it's pretty much the EU deck, but I swapped out. I don't have silver sable, and I put in spider ham, and I think I would just keep in spider ham, even if I had silver sable, to be honest. I think spider ham is such a great counter card.
00:19:11
Speaker
um and useful for all sorts of things, but also I swapped out copycat. To me, I was pulling a lot of Killmongers, and since you weren't stealing the ability from that card anymore, you're now just copying it. um It's not really like a counter as much anymore, and I got rekt hard by an affliction deck, so I swapped in lootcage.
00:19:34
Speaker
And it's been so useful because I put a lot of my early cards out in unknown locations. And usually the biggest danger of that is negative locations, especially for small cards. So I, my version has been running spider ham and Luke cage instead of copycat and silver sable. So just um if you don't have those cards, so many days for subs.
00:19:54
Speaker
Yeah, there's certainly swaps here. um Copycat, I don't know how much I played her, but she definitely informed my strategy. Like I played against a negative deck and the way you beat negative is by, this is also how you beat scream, is you snap aggressively. If they don't have Ravona or Zabu or Psylocke out on two, you snap because you're in a stronger position now. um And it may not go in your favor, but it's like you have to snap and when the situation is in your favor.
00:20:23
Speaker
Oh yeah, even even just a little bit. Yeah, Copycat grabs negative. I'm like, they're not getting negative this game. I don't even care what they do. I'm snapping turn one. No, but they don't anymore, right? and She doesn't steal it. But they're at the bottom of the deck. So the only way they get it is shuffle effect if they want to see it that game. Yep, they either need a lot of deck thinning or they have to get hit by like a Korg or play four, something like that. Most games your deck isn't getting shuffled. It certainly can happen.
00:20:53
Speaker
Have I just not read copycat? Does she does the bottom card? Bottom card of the deck. Yep. Oh, then that's why it was so helpful knowing all those Killmongers weren't going to go off. It always says, OK, because when I played it, I always was snapping, because I'm like, oh, they can't Killmonger me. And I was correct. I just thought I was around later. Yeah. You just thought you were getting lucky. And then I was like, oh, boo, she doesn't. Maybe I'll put her back in. Yeah, that's that's why the the nerf was not that big a deal.
00:21:21
Speaker
Yeah. and The other thing I wanted to shout out is my brother, who um I only recently found out because he joined our alliance. We had one open slot. He's using the name Slater Whatevs, which is adorable. I giggled when I saw that. ah um He just started playing this month. I've been talking about this game constantly for two years, but he decided to try it so that he could understand the podcast, which is just adorable. And I love him. We're just that compelling, I guess.
00:21:49
Speaker
um So he just started this month, or maybe maybe last month, but he just barely started. um And he hit infinite. And he's entering infinite at rank 1,544 because that's just what happens if you if you can get infinite in your first month or
New Card: Anti-Venom Thoughts and Experiments
00:22:05
Speaker
two. You start with a lot of snap points.
00:22:07
Speaker
um I'm like, his second match in post infinite is against rank 13. I'm like, oh, this is and he's like, he has like 500 CL. Yeah, but um the so I'm very impressed. It took me five months to get my first infinite. um But the the ah CL gods have been very kind to him. He has drawn Patriot, Mystique and Ultron already. That's pretty good. Yeah. Yep.
00:22:32
Speaker
Okay. that'll That'll take you a long, long way. Yeah, I was like, that'll take you all the way to the end of Series 3 if you wanted to. um Okay. Let's talk about this week's new card, Anti-Venom. A 4-7, despite being datamined at 4-6. On Reveal, set the cost and power of your deck's top card to zero. Did you two get him? I did not.
00:23:02
Speaker
Oh, go ahead. Yeah. Oh, you didn't go for the two week that are the two. i I've been seeing a lot of super giant around and a lot of anti-venom around. And I think anti-venom is the better of those cards that I'm seeing a lot of lately, um but.
00:23:20
Speaker
Yeah, i I don't know. i I wonder if the past week has been going so well for me because so many people are playing anti-venom things and they aren't working. I don't know. are not Not the past week, but like the past couple days. That's that's when my s SP has really been shooting skyward um since anti-venom came out.
00:23:43
Speaker
But I don't know, maybe maybe it's the copycat thing. there There are so many factors at work all over the place, and it's a card that I haven't been playing with, so I i don't really feel confident speaking to its quality. But I am curious to know what you all think of it. Well, I'm glad that you skipped, even though it was a two-card week, because you're like, I'm not going to play Supergiant. And so I was like, that's not a two-card week, then. If you're not going to play it, it's not a two-card week. OK. Ree?
00:24:09
Speaker
Okay, I put together, like I talked about last week, I put together my ongoing idea um and a zero zero onslaught, even if you don't draw Luke Cage is as fun as it sounds when your deck's all ongoing cards. It's all ongoing cards except for Spectrum and Anti-Venom. And I kind of had the opposite experience. I got two gold tickets with this immediately. wo No losses. Good. hey you know um and ah Which, you know, I was because it was it was a brew testing um and went there. What I have learned is Madam Web is indeed a champ in the ongoing decks. She's so good. Like the tech of her getting to move Cosmo, getting to both get your initial guess with Cosmo, you know, and trying to get them and then getting to shift that, you know, and they don't know if you're going to shift it. like
00:25:06
Speaker
ah That's pretty handy. Also, US agent rate is always most valuable usually played last when you can smack it down on a four or five they've already played, you know, so they don't know to avoid it. But here you can actually play it on curve because, you know, you can move it around with Madam Web later.
00:25:25
Speaker
um so okay Yeah, right? And throwing an Ant-Man in there, you kind of always know you're going to have that lane fil full. Because probably sometimes the problem with Ant-Man and ongoing ducks is like, are you going to really fill that lane? But if you're kind of based around a Madam Web Strategy where you're stacking a lot in one lane and moving out, then like you don't have that problem with Ant-Man.
00:25:49
Speaker
um Anti-venom, the idea behind the deck was that you are um not mad to hit anything in the deck with anti-venom, but also the deck is otherwise synergistic. um So I had, it was Ant-Man, Howard the Duck,
00:26:07
Speaker
A lot of people were saying, and like, Howard the Duck was bait for anti-venom. But in my deck, since it's an ongoing deck, ah and it already made sense for Howard to be in a Spectrum ongoing deck, um he fit. I do kind of agree, otherwise I probably wouldn't be playing him if I wasn't playing in an ongoing deck. Madam Web, US Agent, Captain America. Because once again, I wanted a lot of these to be good hits with Onslaught.
00:26:33
Speaker
um Cosmo, Luke Cage, Anti-Venom, Iron Man, Claw, Spectrum, Onslaught. And yeah, I mean at least at first it was really dominating for me. um All the hits with Anti-Venom were great and Luke Cage was out so much of the time that I didn't even feel the pain of like a zero power spectrum um or anything. so And then, okay, so just last night before the podcast, I was like, I should see what what other people are doing with you. You know what I mean? like i just I'm like, here's my idea, and I ran it, and ah ben I I thought this out and made it, and I have not changed it. After I played it at all, which is not usually how I deck build. Usually I kind of get a loose idea and refine it.
00:27:27
Speaker
I bend this deck. um the anti So put together auto anti-venom. I just had it build me the card. I put together like three your cards off of my deck. Four, I think. Instead, it had armor, lizard, iron lad, and mobius. I was going to suggest iron lad. I really like iron lad in the spectrum deck. Plus, it gives you another synergy with Howard.
00:27:56
Speaker
but you know I agree. It's a good spot. He's not ongoing, but he's going to be ongoing. He sometimes is. He will almost always be effectively, right? Just like Mystique if you ran that. But I was impressed. The deck based on data, though almost the same deck.
Upcoming Cards and Speculations
00:28:16
Speaker
I didn't know whether to be impressed or like, yeah, that's just the obvious. Although, yeah, I don't know. Those other decks, especially on day one,
00:28:27
Speaker
No, this day one, though. This was last night, so at least they had a couple of days. Yeah, I don't know. I did the day one anti-venom deck, and it gave me a scream deck. Yeah. That's what the issue is. Are sure? I feel like the the auto deck used to be better, and it's gotten worse. I don't know. I still like mine. I think onslaught is it's like, it's so good. OK. I grabbed the card. It took two keys.
00:28:58
Speaker
um I have tried i tried cooking my own thing with Valkyrie and Cersei. I didn't try very hard. I yeah maybe did like two iterations on it. Didn't love it. Probably because I never hit any of the five costs with anti-venom. And I've tried a bunch of other people's anti-venom decks, including ah Spectrum decks. And they've felt fine, but I haven't loved any of them. Anti-venom feels kind of meh to me.
00:29:24
Speaker
um However, I was interested in him both for like combo potential. he seems like like He seems like a card that could drive ah a cool clip someday. And also, we're going to get to this, but I think he's a very interesting card with Frigga.
00:29:42
Speaker
so And that's part of it. So many people I saw were like, hey, where's the 6K tokens or spotlight keys for the fun I'm having deck building with him, you know, just working on different ideas. And I mean, you know, that's part of the fun of card games, right? Absolutely. That's a lot of the fun of card games. So he hasn't picked for me yet. I have so many different ideas for him. But I feel...
00:30:12
Speaker
optimistic that something will? I don't know. I still think he's probably like a super, I was going to say super, superfluous card. Like, I don't think anybody needs him. ah Just not even a little bit fluid. Yeah. um All right. Next week's spotlights, um which I think we will keep it brief because we're going to be talking about next season's cards.
00:30:41
Speaker
in full when we stack rank them later. um But the season pass is Surtur. I'm assuming we're all getting the season pass because it's the season pass. yes yes okay i think that sorry I'm pass as I am every season.
00:31:04
Speaker
It's the best value in Snap and I love that value. I like the value. I don't care about the card, but we'll get to that. Yeah, I also don't care about this card. Frigga, without getting too deep into her yet, are you planning on getting Frigga? 3-3 on reveal. Add a copy of the last card you played to your hand, if able.
00:31:29
Speaker
sighted right we're We're going to talk about the rankings, aren't we? Yeah. So don't go too much into practice. Like, are you going to get her? Are you interested in this card? Definitely more interested than I am in Surtur, I think. I think it's a more interesting card for sure.
00:31:49
Speaker
I like have this like ladies with swords like makes me really want her, but like I don't know. I don't know how much I'm going to end up playing with her. Yeah, I. Yeah.
00:32:04
Speaker
ah I'm definitely getting her. I think that people are missing a lot of the combos that she will have, um some of them including anti-venom. I also think you can play her with like a a Grandmaster or on Wong. like like These are big combos to do, but if you copy something small enough, that's you know who doesn't want three d know three demons or three zero cost Iron Man. So Kamala was King Etri, you know, like, which is an activate card, so you could like set up some shenanigans. I mean, like, he seems like a Thor dive. I feel like we're just going to be talking about these cards again in the ranking section, like specifically those two cards and how they interact with each other. All right, so we won't go too deep into it. I might i might get her is what I'll say. Yeah, I will get her.
00:32:57
Speaker
um I haven't even seen how good this Spotlight artwork is for her friends, who are Copycat and Red Guardian. Pretty decent, but also great cards, right? Really good cards. Those Spotlight friends are some real good Spotlight friends. If you want to build my kinds of surfer decks, you want those two cards.
00:33:21
Speaker
um Red Guardian is my favorite all-around tech card. If I can only slot one tech card, like, you know, counter card in a deck, it's usually Red Guardian. It used to be Juggernaut. So, um... And we were just talking about how good Copycat was.
00:33:38
Speaker
Maybe it's going to be an expensive week for me. um The Red Guardian is MCU Red Guardian, which is really fun. Oh, really? They got the David Harbor look, do they? Yeah. I should have pulled it up ages ago. Let me see. We don't normally even talk about the variants. But that is part of, for me, that's part of how I'm deciding between tokens and keys. Yeah. I agree. I totally decide that. And I like those variants, so I'd be fine getting them. It's just I only have so many keys. It's keys for me. I'm definitely going for Frigga.
00:34:11
Speaker
i And yes, I will throw in, I think Red Guardian and Copycat are both great cards. They are among top 10 three-cost cards in the game, both of them. Give or take? At least, like and they're both like pretty generic cards too, right? They're both quite flexible. You can throw them into a lot of different things. Yeah. Okay.
00:34:39
Speaker
Next up, we had an OTA. And like usual, we record on Wednesdays, typically. So by the time we're talking about the OTA, it's a week old. So we're going to keep it fairly brief, unless there's something interesting to say. Also, let's be honest, it's actually Thursday this time. Yeah, you're right. This time we're recording on Thursday. The listener deserves to know. It's still true that last time the OTA hadn't come out, and it's now been out for a week.
00:35:06
Speaker
um So it was all stat changes for the most part. And even the ones that were ability changes were still just number tweaks, sorta. Storm went from three, two to four, five. This is like a really big one, right? I think it's very interesting that, I mean, she's far less playable as a four than as a three. Like that is a very expensive cost jump.
00:35:31
Speaker
But I like that it came with three power like that is um I think it recognizes It recognizes that like of us turn four storm is so much weaker even when she was a three energy card Because your opponent has built up the board more, you know, you can't you are less reliable less Consistently able to play her on an empty lane Our lane that's empty on your opponent side. Yeah Yeah, that's true. I will say, okay, this is this is my interesting thing for the OTA, is that the only the only cerebro by principle that I ever dabbling is C5. And her going to five along honestly with the Zabu change led to some new fun to be found in dabbling in C5.
00:36:22
Speaker
ah Yeah, for sure, right? We put together the C5 deck, which is called Cerebros, but the S is a 5 instead. Of course it is. And it's the re R-I-E.
00:36:38
Speaker
Oh no, I always forget to do my name puns in the deck until people re-name them. um But yeah, no, it's got like Zabu, Martyr, Medusa, Lizard Silk, Cerebro Spider-Man, Captain Marvel, Enchantress Omega Red, Storm, Doctor Doom, which is maybe not the best possible configuration, but it's Storm.
00:37:01
Speaker
plays in with Spider-Man, with Dr. Doom, with Captain Marvel, with Silk. And then, you know, kind of Enchantress, Blizzard, kind of classic, classic C5. And Medusa, right, belonging there now. Martyr, I won't lie, probably like Hydra, I don't have Hydra Bob. Definitely probably Hydra Bob would be better, but playing Martyr and Captain Marvel in the same deck is just fun.
00:37:26
Speaker
It's just fun. If you can get one to move and then the other to move, it's just joy. And if Captain Marvel is the one who's moving second. Exactly, yep. Which is generally the case.
00:37:38
Speaker
then Martyr throws it and Captain Marvel fixes it. Yep. Hopefully. And Sabu, right? Makes you able to so much easier play all these more four or five cards, which are valuable. So it's just some new new fun with C5. The downside of Storm becoming more of a meme deck card. No, I like C5 because it's not all in on Cerebro. You don't play Mystique. It can win without hitting it, you know?
00:38:09
Speaker
I have very mixed feelings about this. Storm is one of my favorite cards in the entire game, easily a top 10 of all time. um She only has good variants. That's true and's true. She is one of the very few representatives of the lockdown archetype which has constantly been nerfed and it's my favorite one.
00:38:28
Speaker
um So it's like... How mixed can your feelings be about this, Lauren? I hate this. um This is happening because they're trying to break up the Legion war machine thing, um which, you know, we talked about
Card Balance Changes Discussion
00:38:47
Speaker
when we first started. Ask this to your anger. Turn into Darth Lauren over this. What have they done for lockdown, Lauren? They killed your girl.
00:38:56
Speaker
They killed your genre! I don't know how unplayable she is, though. You know, like, ah three more power is decent. No, I've seen these four five storms out in the wild. I am not impressed, I gotta say. Yeah, I gotta say she doesn't have as many good five cost follow ups as she does four cost follow ups. You should meet me next lockdown deck, Return of the Lockdown.
00:39:23
Speaker
okay i'm sorry It's very it's very disappointing, but also I don't know How else they break up the war machine Legion storm thing, right? Like no, it's true This is like the logical thing that they pick. like I think six cost Legion is sad. It ruins a lot of cool. ma noses I heard that idea floated and it makes no sense, right? There are times you want six turn like turn six Legion, right? Like for the Nexus or for Bar with No Name, like there are times. But also, there's a lot of cool things you can do with a turn five Legion that would just disappear. You know, say ah um the Raptors or Collapse Mine or something like that.
00:40:03
Speaker
um Or if you really want some chaos, ah Strange Academy. like It becomes a much more boring card if it costs six. like Totally. it's yeah Yeah. And if War Machine goes back to being a turn five play, then it's back to old War Machine that nobody was playing. like yeah So it's tough.
00:40:27
Speaker
um I think so it would be like a really niche thing, but I think they could have gotten away with if Legion gets played on Storm, then the two are flooding the next turn, not flooded. I think that would be a great solution. Yeah, I don't know. Isn't that how it used to work, or at least Mirror Dimension used to work that way? I think that's how everyone assumed it would work until the card came out.
00:40:54
Speaker
Yeah, but because that's how mirror dimension worked. That would be my preferred fix for this. Otherwise, I think i think Storm is is the one who had to take the hit. um Which also brings up the whole like, do we want the low series cards taking hits for the the high series cards? No, we super don't. Because that's how it tends to happen.
00:41:14
Speaker
You know where I heard a spirited and insightful discussion of this concept? I heard it on how can she snap last week where the super snap bros were joined by Let me check my notes. Lauren Whatevs. Oh, fascinating. ah Sounds a little familiar. um But yeah, I thought your discussion of ah the OTA and the balance approach and ah low series cards paying for high series card sins. ah Yeah, I thought it was right on and on point. I really enjoyed that episode. By the way, I encourage our listeners to check it out.
00:41:58
Speaker
Great podcast, great guests, great times. Well, thank you. And I'll try to bring some new thoughts here. No, your your thoughts your thoughts over there were were fine. Feel free to restate them here. They're very good thoughts.
00:42:10
Speaker
I think the the high series and low series thing, it often gets ah accused of you know like marvel ah second dinner greed, and that that's part of it. It's not true. Right. But I think it's more complicated than that. It's also higher series cards are newer, which means, oh, did somebody just buy that card? like Did somebody just get War Machine in a spotlight because he was updated?
00:42:35
Speaker
Do we want to punish them right after that happened? Or if it's a brand new card, you know, like Agent Venom's not getting touched partially because he's on sale right now, but partially because they they don't have as much data for Agent Venom as they do for other cards. I think they've got enough data for Agent Venom. I mean, probably with how popular he's been. But no, no that there there are are there other examples where like I think that's absolutely correct.
00:42:58
Speaker
I think we know that Agent Venom is troubled. We're we're already we' buffing Shadow King to 2-3 because of it. What the hell is that? Speaking of, um yeah a freaking wild change. Shadow King going 2-2 to 2-3 because he needed 50% more power, that's the best tech card. That was the greasy wheel or this the squeaky wheel rather that needed the grease. Oh, wow. Shadow King wasn't cutting it.
00:43:29
Speaker
ah Why are you talking about this before the pod started? Why is Shadow King played so much less? In my own personal series, so many of us are playing scalers. Enough of them. Yeah, I would rather play scalers than Shadow King. That's exactly why I don't play Shadow King very much. I think that's part of it.
00:43:53
Speaker
I only thought I should play him because I'm like, oh, you know, actually, maybe worth taking out Howard or something to put Shadow King in the game. Well, if you're doing ongoing stuff, you should like absolutely be playing Shadow King. But most of the decks, right? And across many archetypes.
00:44:11
Speaker
um You you know got scalers and and and that's more fun. that's very fun it's true yeah but absolutely is ah It's an impact of seeing the Shadow King and Luke Cage interaction changed. We're now Shadow King removes modifiers instead of um just adding a new one that's like equal to base call base power.
00:44:32
Speaker
Um, so like, you know, it was one way to attack Luke Cage decks is that Shadow King can actually affect them now, but it also made it so you can't run Luke Cage to defend your own stuff from Shadow King. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which I used to do frequently. Yeah, totally. Yeah, ye that that was like, they were buds like that. I guess it's time for Four Cross Valkyrie.
00:44:56
Speaker
ah i don't know I don't know about that. She would be busted, don't do it.
00:45:04
Speaker
Okay, I'm just gonna say the other cards besides Shadow King that gained a point of power, that is the change. Misery went from 4-7 to 4-8, Electro went 3-2 to 3-3, Daredevil went 2-2 to 2-3, and Meek went 1-0 to 1-1.
00:45:21
Speaker
I don't think any of these cards really changed in their overall quality. I think Misery is still good. I think Meek is still not good right now. I think Daredevil is about the same. I think Electro is exactly the same. Electro is the same. Daredevil is way easier to splash in now. I agree. Yeah, 2-3 is them a lot better than 2-2.
00:45:45
Speaker
yeah like i don't I think it makes it a lot easier to play Daredevil as just Daredevil. It doesn't necessarily have to have synergy with Gamora or Hobgoblin or whatever. Although you probably don't just throw Daredevil into a deck. i mean like i yeah i I wouldn't be throwing it in unless I had a really good idea of what I was doing it for. Even at 2-3 just because... I don't know, 2-3 is not... ah yeah Yeah, I don't think this is like a general good cards card to like put in your, this is not, ah this ain't Jeff. Well, you're also lower on tech than most people, right? Like you don't play a lot of tech. So whereas yeah Daredevil can let you preempt some tech for your opponents.
00:46:33
Speaker
What you're forgetting about one point of power in high impact, low cost cards is that a point of power is a big step to protecting them from Red Guardian. ah You know, oh um I have Red Guardian a lot of daredevils in my day and he will be much harder now at three power, right? In comparison to like whatever else they might have played in that lane before. Yeah, you'll be you'll be hoping for a lot more like 50 50s on the Red Guardian.
00:47:01
Speaker
to hit a daredevil.
00:47:06
Speaker
Because if Kate Bishop is hanging out in the same spot, yeah, yeah or something, you know. yep Lots of things have three powers. It's true. I love Kate. Let me just ask your opinions. Electro, the reason they gave for Electro was that they that Electro strategies right now tend to be all about getting rid of Electro and they wanted it to be possible to play Electro again where you're just playing single card each turn ah with a better energy curve. Do you think this fixes that? No. No, me neither. Not not even a little.
00:47:40
Speaker
This card is exactly the same. that like i This is like that Westworld thing where like I don't i don't and don't see anything there or whatever whatever the the robots say when you try to show them something from like the wider world. Invisible. that That doesn't look like anything to me. That's the phrase, I think.
00:47:59
Speaker
no vanks electro for the one extra point of power you know okay there you go something it makes it more valuable to destroy him instead of from erasing him with like a cersei viper blink i was just being nice i don't really
00:48:17
Speaker
OK, other changes rocks like goes three, three to four, five. I think this makes sense. Darkhawk has always been strong. It's still strong. And part of the reason is it gets to do its thing and disrupt at the same time, like its power building and its disruption are the same actions. But my question is, why isn't it Black Widow that went to four? Yes. Yes.
00:48:43
Speaker
ah Um, because Black Widow is way more annoying to get hit with multiple times, and that's been happening with Dex Miller. It feels a lot fairer to get Black Widow once on turn four. That's what I think.
00:48:55
Speaker
Yeah. I super agree, to be honest. But you know what's funny about this is, remember back in the day when the Darkhawk package was married to Zabu? And I think part of that was because Rock Slide used to be four, remember? This is a version of Rock Slide. The Darkhawk also used to be four. But yes, we're correct. Yes, true. So it's not totally. But when you saw him move to four, didn't your heart just think, it'd be so nice to Zabu that kind?
00:49:25
Speaker
Yeah, but absolutely. Because it's the Darkhawk package. It can definitely fit in a four drop deck. It fits everywhere. That's why it's so dangerous. Darkhawk's still good. like It is a little worse. it It loses a turn of the rocks disruption.
00:49:44
Speaker
but I don't know. It's it's still very good. ah I don't think it loses out on a lot and because of this change. And it comes with two two extra powers. Klaas loses one power from his ability, goes 5-4 plus 8 to 5-4 plus 7. I think he's still perfectly playable.
00:50:06
Speaker
Yeah, but this is a step closer to 5-4 Claw, who put out plus six and was um not playable. And I think Claw was just right. I think Claw was in a Goldilocks spot. um That's what I think. He's been good in my anti-venom deck. Obviously, as a 0-0, it's still good, but I've been onslaughting him a lot. So that's been really helpful.
00:50:35
Speaker
Um, but like, you I agree. Cause it used to be claw. It feels closer to the five, six call, which was only mostly winning you lanes into like a desk domain or a sanctuary, you know? And mostly it wasn't winning you lanes. Right? The five, yes. And the five eight claw was helping you win like open lanes that they were playing into. Um, five eight club is good at his job.
00:51:05
Speaker
I wonder like parts like that wonder how good his stats were behind the scenes because he was being played a decent amount, but it's like... Oh, I'm sure he was crushing in early series gameplay. Like, absolutely. And that is what they cited. They cited early gameplay. ah I'm sure they're not wrong about that. Like, I have no doubt. yeah Once you hit CL3000, your claw gets an extra power.
00:51:29
Speaker
um Yeah, i don't i don't I don't like this change, certainly not as an endgame player. um Like, I do think he's still playable, but some cards in the game have to be the strongest cards, and I think it's good if some of them are the lower series cards, you know? And and some of them always have been! Iron Man has perennially been a good card.
00:51:51
Speaker
um
00:51:54
Speaker
yeah Also, so there aren't that many good fives. like let Let this one be one of them. like right Yeah, five is a tough slot. You can't go around ruining good fives. You're not going to have any fives left to play. It's going to be Iron Man and Iron Man. Just let cards be good sometimes.
00:52:14
Speaker
Right. 512 is very big, but it is spread across multiple lanes, and we see that with other cards. You know, Squirrel Girl's a 1-4, but she spreads. MrFantastic is a 3-6, but he spreads like... I think the spread is like to the detriment of Squirrel Girl, but the advantage of Claw. And, like, Squirrel Girl is taking up space on multiple lanes, but MrFantastic and Claw are hitting multiple lanes without taking up extra space. And so I think it's like, it's in that positive for them, whereas Squirrel Girl is a liability. Yeah, that's true.
00:52:49
Speaker
Okay, so like ah a Ms. Marvel. I generally view hitting multiple lanes as a a bonus. like That's a good thing. like I think that Scarlet Spider is so good because it hits two lanes. Even though it does take up space on two lanes, I'm like, yeah. Reaching into extra lanes is like generally good unless it's Squirrel Girl or Debris. and and And when I say Debris, I mean like Debris and Patriot, and i I squint at that.
00:53:14
Speaker
Um, I don't know. Those, those are my thoughts on going wide with a single card. I think that's a good thing to do. I think that we like cards that can do that. Usually like Ms. Marvel, Dr. Doom, like this, that's a powerful effect. You want your cards to hit multiple lanes. That's what I think. And I do think it's super cool to be able to do that onto a full location. I think that's one of the things is people think you finished the location. You're like, uh-uh. Okay. Anything else on claw?
00:53:45
Speaker
Okay, the last card, but noticeably a big hit. Yeah. yeah ah the Possibly the headliner of the OTA, Typhoid Mary, a 4-10. Instead of doing minus one to all of your cards, she does minus one to your cards at her location, ah excluding herself. it's its It's good. I think it kind of kind of hurts her identity a lot. Also, she was barely played. That too.
00:54:15
Speaker
I have no strong feelings about this card or or this change. Oh, really? This was the most interesting change to me, because I know you guys are in as hype on it, but I've been meaning for a while to make one of those, like, cool obsidian, like, 10 pop decks with Scar. And the only reason I haven't messed with it yet is because Surtur's coming out in weeks. Yeah, it's going to be the time. Just waiting for that one.
00:54:47
Speaker
That's gonna be a tier one deck next week. It might already be a tier one deck to be honest. I think. Only in her location. I think it makes her a lot more playable. It's super duper does and I think that the downside is in some ways it's smaller and more manageable than the other four tens like downsides or requirements.
00:55:15
Speaker
Yeah, in some ways it is. We've never played her before without Luke. And here now, you might, you know. While you play her in Sauron Zero. I do feel like she's lost her identity. It's just that Sauron in Zero is kind of struggling really hard right now, right? Like, ever since Shuri lost her multi-lane-ness. I mean, I guess that's not totally when Shuri died, but she has died since then. Man, that is some ancient history at this point.
00:55:44
Speaker
It's
November Season Card Rankings
00:55:45
Speaker
true. Yeah, I think it's over a year old at this point. At least. I just, you know, US agent when he was first datamined was going to be another Sauron card and it's like, I'm sure more Sauron cards are coming eventually. You know, Sauron spent a very long time being one of the best cards in the game. ah And like quietly in a way that players weren't complaining about. um Yeah.
00:56:09
Speaker
And i just I think it's bizarre that we still haven't got one single new Sauron card since Sauron was added to the game. Yeah, I think it's probably due for another. All right, ah we're going to move on to November season rankings. These are all based on datamines because we don't have an official video out yet, but the new season starts next week. so Yeah, there may be a video by the time people are hearing this. so They usually drop on Fridays, so yeah, pay attention to that. Maybe one of these things will be slightly adjusted.
00:56:44
Speaker
um Okay, should we just go in order, give our rankings? And then I thought something we missed last time was saying our entire list in order, like all at once. So people, you know? I think that has some value. It could, yeah. It wouldn't take long, so why not? We're going to start off. We are including King E. Tree, who is a card that we believe is coming in a limited time mode, probably Deadpool's Diner, based on some of the things that we've
00:57:16
Speaker
heard Because I think in the roadmap, they showed like Thanksgiving theming for Deadpool's Diner. So to me, that seems like it's a November thing. um There is also Lafe in the data mines, but he seems kind of like a lasher Uncle Ben tombstone type where it's like he's coming. We don't know if we're when we'll see that card. When are they coming? When's the card acquisition changes appearing? Who knows? So he's not included. So we are ranking six cards.
00:57:48
Speaker
um The first one is Surtur, the 3-5 season pass. After you play a card with 10 plus power, this gains 3 power. Yeah. I put it as my number one.
00:58:05
Speaker
I've got it at number two. i like that is These numbers are so silly. They're good cards. it's They're all fine. Well, there's some ways that it's hard to measure. And I think we've talked about this before, but it's like, you know is flexibility ah more valuable than niche strength? um I put Surteret too, but he easily could have been number one. I think this is a super strong card.
00:58:31
Speaker
um Although, you know we're currently in a meta with Little Shong, and I think next season, Shong's going to be everywhere because he's going to eat these decks alive. Right, but I've played decks before too, where I guess if you have an abs man, you could get him. Sometimes if you have enough big stats in a different lane, you can only shut your mind. You can Shongren Master on turn 6.
00:58:58
Speaker
But look at this card. It starts at a 3-5, which is already, you know? That's a hell of a floor, right? We know how Ben feels about 3-5 cards, you know? And then it scales. And the way it scales is by putting more power on the board, not other conditions. It's by like playing what you want to do already. It's just so frequently going to be a much bigger card. And it's not ongoing.
00:59:27
Speaker
So if they shung another lane, he's gonna keep only Shadow King an enchantress montcountin so say we and Ben? So, if Surtur makes it to 3.11, boom, your punch card's full, Scar is free, it's a 3.14.
00:59:43
Speaker
like It's just... I mean, sure, it's not always going to be a 3.14, but it's going to be a 3.14 enough that... Or a 3.17, because you can play Scar and another 10 power card, which you probably have a few of those in your Scar deck. it's It is going to be great for the big dumb idiot strategy of just like, I'm just going to plot power everywhere and I don't really care where it goes. I'm just going to just go on raw strength.
01:00:15
Speaker
But you could do a big some little deck like Kitty Pryne, you know, Colobcidian. I think there's still some fi- I know, like, you guys are like, boo, boring, big cards, which you know, it.
01:00:34
Speaker
I think there's some fun to be had. Oh, no, definitely. I mean, maybe we'll get laid down super quickly. For sure. The weekend missions are going to be fun to accomplish. I like playing good cards sometimes, even the ones that aren't in my wheelhouse.
01:00:50
Speaker
um so Yeah, so we all rated him pretty high. I think he'll be good. Yeah, Scar's already been on the rise. This just ah seals the deal. I also think it leads to a very interesting meta because Agent Venom Dex put out a ton of power, and this puts out a ton of power in a different way, plus brings Shang back into the meta.
01:01:09
Speaker
There's a lot of like counterplay there. Fenris Wolf will talk about later, but I think he's also a very interesting part of this like meta discussion. Yeah, I think these cards fit together in interesting ways. Okay, next up is Frigga. We already mentioned her. She's a 3-3 on reveal. Add a copy of the last card you played to your hand.
01:01:32
Speaker
Yeah, i I ranked this one at number 6, not because it's a bad card or anything, it looks quite promising for bounce, potentially unwieldy elsewhere, um you know, good for hammer stuff as we mentioned.
01:01:47
Speaker
um and i As I said last week, I don't hate the idea of getting a second copy of US Agent. like You play one early, which is not the optimal time to play it, but it is if you're doing two separate lanes. you know I think that could be cool. that There's cool stuff. Lauren, you mentioned Grandmaster, and i'm not like I'm not super sure about that one, but like I'm also not super sure about not that one, so I don't know.
01:02:15
Speaker
Right? i just It's a big multi-step combo. And this isn't the only thing, but this is just like, imagine the possibilities. You have an anti-Venom on four. On turn five, you play a zero-cost card. Frigga, Grandmaster, you have two more zero-cost cards. ah Well, maybe Grandmaster would clone, would make Frigga clone herself. Yeah, that's what I think we'd have. Okay, so that's not good. Frigga on Wong then. How did you play anti-Venom? Fine.
01:02:45
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. My my thinking is even if Frigga doesn't make it like a huge splash at launch, copying a card is drawing a card. And so like she's a stat bump away from mattering, like no matter what is. And yeah, cards cards receive those stat bumps all the time. So I don't know. I am surprised at how low her power is. And I wonder if that's a hint from the devs that this ability is stronger than we're realizing.
01:03:14
Speaker
right like Could be. I also don't think the devs always know better than we do about stuff. like Like, it's possible maybe she needs more stats and they just aren't up on that yet. That's fair. um I think on top of anti-venom shenanigans, Negative and Pixie are also worth considering. um Basically any discounted card should keep its discount when you clone it.
01:03:40
Speaker
I think Moon Girl would be busted out as a 3 cost card. And this is kind of a way to do it. Really how that works? They keep the discount? Are we sure about that? She's making a copy of the last card you played, so I don't know why they- If it's already on the board, does it have a different energy cost? That's a good question. I don't know. Because they get sucked over by Asteroid, right? Right. But is that, I don't know.
01:04:07
Speaker
It's a good question, yeah. Have I have i ever cloned ah like a card from the raft? Hmm, I don't know. um
01:04:19
Speaker
Maybe not. If you play a free three-cost, it still gets sucked over by asteroid. Right, it is a three-cost card. That costs zero. A capital C, lowercase c thing that they changed. I read it her last as well. Yeah, that's right.
01:04:37
Speaker
You have her at six. Yes, and not because I actually think I am going to end up picking her up probably with keys. I like the veins and those cards, but I rated her last because, and here's why. i Yeah, there's a lot of fun to be had with her. There's a lot of different ways. I want to try her out, but um she is she relies on multiple factors. She's going to be awkward a lot of the time. You draw her late, no good, and she's a three-cast.
01:05:11
Speaker
I don't think really it looks great for a surfer deck, you know, to be honest. No, that's not what, yeah. In comparison to the competition in three cars. Nope. I just can't see myself playing her in surfer at all.
01:05:24
Speaker
Right. Okay, Ben. Yeah. And you've played surfer more than I have a lot lately. So you agree with me. She looks awkward for surfer, to be honest. So, um, and three can kind of get in that awkward cost where you're like, you want the payoff to really like, you know, match the stat line. Like, yeah Um, she's got all these three fivers to compete with now, you know, and sage who's just always fun. Okay. Um, so that's why I but that said, I think I'll still get her. And as I think Ben said, she's just like a small stat change away from like being way cooler, probably. Like if she were three, five, it's a different card. Yeah. And we already saw that when her data mines had her at a four cost before. And it was like going from four to three makes such a big difference.
01:06:13
Speaker
Definitely a step in the right direction. Did you say what you had her at, Lauren? I had her at three. Okay. Interesting. Classic line. Yes, definitely. um Maybe a little overconfident and in a combo, but I love my combo cards. And I think- You sure do. And I think there's like, I don't think you- To make her really, you know, like, sparkle, maybe it's a complicated combo, but that doesn't mean that's the only way to make that work in that deck. You can do half a combo and have it pay off. Like, I'm not upset if I get an extra demon. um No. I think it's a good bounce card, yeah. Yeah, or an extra 1-9 Raccoon. But, yeah, she's definitely... She's pretty niche. ah Because...
01:07:03
Speaker
They're just, it's like you were saying with US Agent, as like kind of one of the only cards you want to clone, it's like there just aren't that many one to three cost cards that are worth cloning. Or are specifically like a two if you're if you're looking to like cruise up on curve, you know? Yeah, two is great because then it's either two, three, or on turn five you play two plus Virga. And there just aren't that many cards that like, you know, there's not a two cost scaler that, that That gets big immediately. you know It's not like you can retroactively clone Angela. I mean, you could if if you wanted to get Morbius twice, I don't hate that. Oh, that's pretty good.
01:07:43
Speaker
yeah Cause that's, that's a scalar that, you know, counts from the beginning of time. Yeah. scream Also, I saw somebody mentioning and I think that's okay. Your second scream comes out on turn four. That's way too late. I think a second. Yeah. I don't know about that idea. and I'm sorry. to immediately be like but Or like the one star two costs of multiple decks, right? So like you're really going to throw in like,
01:08:14
Speaker
ah Card for that one card mostly you know what I mean like because if you're putting her with like um a Morbius in discard well, she doesn't you know what I mean? You're not gonna do that Yeah, I think she might actually work well with a lot of other things in discard like if if you're discarding the same thing over and over again like but maybe i Maybe I want a second Colleen Wing so that I can discard Scorn again. and like i kind of I kind of like this in discard now that I'm thinking about it. You are giving more possibilities than I had thought about previously. I don't think Morbius is the only option there.
01:08:56
Speaker
Okay, because I was going to say the problem with it is that, like, the more discard cards you take out of discard, the harder it is for you to, like, pull off your stuff, you know, the more likely you can get hand-screwed. And now that they've divided discard into this, like, evens versus odds and, like, weird targeted stuff, Frigga is where you want specific discard cards, you know, like you said, like Colleen Wing.
01:09:24
Speaker
Uh, so you're, I don't know, maybe, maybe you're convincing me, Ben. Calling wings are pretty good. I mean, also you could get a second gambit. That's another card that like, if, if you're already doing weird things with your curve, you know, you might as well play gambit on three and five. Why why not? Would you be more excited about Frigga if white widow hadn't been changed?
01:09:52
Speaker
I mean, yeah. Is that a good enough two? Like, would that join the US agent as a two? No, does that would be like the thing we're talking about right now. We. Yeah, we. Yeah, yeah I think so. um So. I am high on Frigga, but I also ah do not would not be surprised if she gets a buff.
01:10:15
Speaker
um Yeah, I would totally reevaluate this card at three five. I'm so intrigued by this Discord idea. That's probably what I'd do. It might be nothing. It's just it's worth thinking about. Don't know until you try. At least until you think about it.
01:10:33
Speaker
I don't have a discomfort discard again because I haven't quite figured it out now that like it's got all this weird targeted stuff. It's not how I tend to build decks and maybe irbye this is this is it. I mean, you don't have to do targeted things. I've recently started letting the random discards into my heart. I've been playing the aforementioned Gambit who I did not previously mess around with because a little too random for me, but, you know, we all we all change and grow and grind new things and stuff. Or at least, I hope we do. I don't know.
01:11:14
Speaker
Okay, next one. Malekith, a 4-6, on reveal at a 1, 2, or 3 cost card from your deck here, it reveals at the end of the game.
01:11:29
Speaker
I put this at my number five because I was debating honestly between, how do you say your name? I've started avoiding it because I'm not sure. I said Frigga. There's two G's, but it might be Frigga. I don't know. I don't know. I feel like I should have looked at it while you discuss.
01:11:52
Speaker
So Malick, but Malick is, so I think what tipped it might've been the deck thinning aspect. Like when you are playing a card later on four, what you do wanna not draw is like a smaller card, you know? um so That was part of what bumped it up, but it is a deck, but it feels like kind of the anti-venom of this season where it's like, where how are you building this deck, you know?
01:12:21
Speaker
it's that Okay, why were you why were you interested, Ben? Is that also where you put Malakith? No, no, no, it was not. yeah Okay, so so you sound sort of like I was feeling, ah like how I had been feeling about Malakith until I started like...
01:12:37
Speaker
I don't know. as As I mentioned, thoughts change and evolve and stuff. And initially I was, okay, when I first saw Malekith, I was like, oh, this is a complicated card. There's gotta be something clever I'm missing here. ah There's gotta be something real smart, big brain that everybody else is gonna see and I'm gonna feel like the silliest person in the world for not noticing what the smart thing to do here is. ah No, it's just like,
01:13:05
Speaker
This is a very powerful card in like a a raw, like brutish kind of way. Not not brutish, but like brutish. like we're We're just bringing the the force here. um Yeah, recruiting from your deck is effectively drawing a card and generating between 1 and 3 energy. um So that more than compensates for like the 4, 6 stat line, which is pretty mediocre, but still better than Supergiant, by the way. um Yeah. yeah and keeping the recruit face down. Well, anyway, point is, like in keeping that that recruit that you got for you you know you know your free one to three energy cost card, like keeping it face down, that gives you an information advantage over your opponent. and ah
01:13:53
Speaker
In case your parents haven't explained to you where cubes come from, that's that's where. Information advantages and stuff. That's that's where cubes come from, kids. um Yeah, it crowds the location, takes up two spots on a location. That's a real bummer because you're getting two cards for the price of one, basically. Yeah, this is like... ah It's so efficient. It's so big. Can I add the one, two, or three cost card is from your deck, which means two things. Yeah, from your deck. Can I pitch one more little idea? Oh yeah, go ahead. Here's the postscript. OK, Quicksilver, Domino, Wiccan, a bunch of three costs, and Malekith, and I don't know. Maybe play some expensive things too. So you play your Quicksilver, your Domino, and a three cost card.
01:14:43
Speaker
and Wiccan, and then you're guaranteed to recruit three-cost cards with Malakith, and it all like works out, and everything loves itself. Yeah, it's all in agreement. I don't know. That that that was just like a thought. I don't really like building Wiccan decks very much, I've learned, but I just figured I should throw it out there before I pass the ball. Lauren, what do you think? Okay, so you're pulling a card from your deck. That means two things. You are deck thinning, and it's a card that you put in your deck. Uh-huh.
01:15:12
Speaker
Probably, it might be a rock, but it's like, this isn't this isn't a Maria Hill generated card. This is a card you chose to put there. um In the same way that like everybody kind of, most people slept on Loki and then it was like, oh wait, cards that that people chose to put their deck are good yeah good cards. um So yeah, ah you didn't say your rank, Ben, but I have Malekith at number one. Oh yeah, number one, number one. Sorry, if if that was not clear. Yeah, number one. I think he's just generically good. you yeah he just He has a little bit of deck building restriction, but not a ton. I'm going to lie, is it?
01:15:53
Speaker
You're going to lie off my one cost card? You have fun with that. Yeah, I hope it's an ebony mob. I mean, i what what if it's Gladiator or something? I mean, dang. I feel like I shouldn't have rated him solo. you' You've convinced me with your arguments.
01:16:14
Speaker
They're all good cards. There are none of these cards where I'm like, how could you rate that number one? like They're all fine. And Zabu. What if the threes you're pulling are Wolf's Bane, Sage? like There are some that you're like totally fine if they're played at the end of the game. Yep. Killmonger, depending on your deck. Yeah, yeah maybe not a Zabu friend. um But also maybe a Zabu friend.
01:16:44
Speaker
Could be. Could pull Zabi though. I'm not upset about a 3-6. A 3-6 plus who the hell knows. Yeah, right. and and And you know, that's the thing your opponent will not know, but you will know. Yeah, we're assuming. We don't know that for sure. But I feel like that's a safe assumption. You guys convinced me, it seems pretty good.
01:17:12
Speaker
So when we talked about the datamines, what was it, one or two weeks ago with Malekith, we kind of went on the same journey where it was like, oh, kind of down on him. And then I was like, oh, but wait. And I feel like we just like continued that journey even more. Like, OK, yeah, this this is a four, six, generate one, two, or three energy. OK. And thin your deck.
01:17:34
Speaker
yeah i mean like I really think I only arrived at my current estimation of this power level like because we talked about it and I had time to think about it after we talked about it. and like I really do i do so value our conversations. they're They're very helpful for thinking about things.
01:17:57
Speaker
Oh, sure. And I think listening to other podcasts too, not to, you know, we have great ideas, but that's like something that I love is listening to a bunch of different people. belonging to an fpi Hey, you know, it depends on the week on how many I'm listening to, but even getting, you know, one or two additional perspectives, almost everything is the same I thought through, but they might have like, you know, a couple new ideas. And it's like, it really helps you like form a more cohesive picture to think of something clever that that you hadn't thought of before. Okay.
Fenris Wolf Card Discussion
01:18:28
Speaker
Next up, Fenris Wolf, a 2-3, activate, resurrect the highest power, discarded or destroyed enemy card to your side of this location. Super cool ability. Yes. um Speaking of pronunciations that are uncertain, I don't i don't know if if we're saying it right. Fenris? I'm open to the possibility we've been saying it aggressively wrong this entire time.
01:18:58
Speaker
And if a listener wants to botch us, feel free. I would rather be right eventually than always wrong forever. And ah yeah. I did look up Frigga. It's Frigga, by the way. OK. OK, good. Talk about Fenris Wolf. I'll look him up, too.
01:19:18
Speaker
Okay, so yeah, my like my expectations for Fenris Wolf have, ah I don't know, they've deflated slightly because we've known the text and it's been unchanged for so long. I feel like we talked about this card in like the first episode of Snap on this or something like that. Is it always an activate? Yep, activate. And ah I think it always did discards and destroys.
01:19:44
Speaker
um So i'm I'm a little lower on it what than I was the first time we read these words, but um I still think it looks pretty good. It pairs with all the obvious stuff, your your Shang's Chi, your Negasonic Teenage Foreheads, your Spider-Man's 2099, Moon Knight, whatever else, discards or destroys things. you you know your you' samurai, your black bolt, your lady death strike. you you know yeah We all know the cards that do those things. I could keep listing them. But you know the thing is, ah cheap activate cards are the best activate cards, right? So you've got like most of the game to wait until something satisfactory dies or gets discarded. You don't have to like settle for the the first thing you
01:20:39
Speaker
you snipe, you know? And ah it also recently occurred to me that when you use this activate ability, you're probably removing that card from the opponent's resurrection pool for purposes of Hela, Ghost Rider, or Valley of the Hand. So, you know, that's not like a reason to do Fenris Wolf stuff, but like, it is a fun little bonus if you happen to get a favorable matchup there. a cool little a you in the yeah you know So yeah, I like this card. I don't think it's the best of the month, but I do you think it's probably better than some people will expect. what's your plan I mean, i don't I don't know what everyone's different expectations are on this podcast or outside of this podcast. I just think that there are probably some people who are going to underestimate Fenris Wolff. What's your placement?
01:21:30
Speaker
Oh, ah my placement. ah Maybe I'm underestimating Fenris Wolf. if I don't know. I put it at number four. Okay. I put it at number three. I put it at one higher. I also am a bit lower on it. I do. Okay. It's kind of at three because I do think it has the power to affect the meta. You know, if if if it comes to that weak and everyone's hype and everyone's playing Fenris Wolf. But on the flip side, it's kind of easy.
01:21:56
Speaker
to count, you know what I mean? Because it's like they still have to shun something of yours, you know what I mean? Or discard something large of yours like for it to be huge. Those things are their own reward already. True.
01:22:16
Speaker
So yeah, I guess it end up being a decent amount of power for a two-cost and works in line with your other strategies. But um it's still something you need to to build around to make it happen a bit, you know to get to get your value out of it. You got to commit to the lifestyle for sure. And I think that's one reason I rated it low, is just some of the cards I rated it higher are just going to be way easier to to get off, I think, you know to to hit their pay off.
01:22:51
Speaker
and What about you, Ryan? I also put him at four. It's Fenris, by the way, the pronunciation. Cool. So my thoughts are, you know, Xiong is far and away the best combo piece with this, right? um It's cool that it's targeted resurrection, but i Yeah, most of the other ways that you can make your opponent destroy or discard something, you're not discarding or destroying something that's super strong. You're not guaranteeing size the way that you do there. Yeah, unless you're like, okay, lady death strike on an Iron Man, like it's possible, but it's super niche situation. And speaking of that, I think the Shang is also a niche situation. What if you're playing against an an opponent who is not putting out 10 power cards or is only putting one out on turn six and you have to soul read them?
01:23:43
Speaker
And they know you have Fenris Wolf on the board, by the way, because if you're it's a surprise, on what Fenris Wolf, you don't get to activate it. So it is super strong, say put it but put it up against a certain deck and they're throwing 10s everywhere. You have Fenris in one lane, Shang in another lane, Shang is getting rid of all the big power there, and then you get to bring more power here.
01:24:05
Speaker
But. That is so true. They like to do that. Like it like Sutter gets to run free for a few weeks and then Fenris comes along. I think it's the first time since Mobius ah and Loki that we've had the like the direct counter coming out just like the same season.
01:24:22
Speaker
Yeah. I've got one thought about the the Shang-Chi thing. I think the other good card to pair with, like, I listed several that, you know, destroy or discard things, but I think that Moon Knight is going to be a good partner in crime because yeah discarding an even-cost card means you're probably getting something that costs two, four, or six unless they're running Yellow Jacket or Wasp. And so, like,
01:24:48
Speaker
it's it's at least It's at least two cost and it might be six cost. That's a good point. But you have to have a deck that's built to be moon knight yourself. Megasonic moon knight and Shang-Chi I think are the three like best ones to go with. the thing with moon knight is it's not unless you're playing another discard deck which is always rough for moon knight.
01:25:12
Speaker
It's not double-sided because if they're playing their own Fenris Wolf, they're not getting your Apocalypse or Praxima. You know what I mean? so True. Yeah. Because they're not in your discard. Okay. I want to talk more about the certain matchup though.
01:25:28
Speaker
right yes Your opponent sees Fenris there, how do you solve this problem? You put extra power in the Fenris lane because Fenris only resurrects to his own lane. What are they gonna do? Shong that lane and Fenris that lane? They won one lane, woo! Like it just, the fact that they can see it coming means that they can they can play around it, which means then there's like tension like, oh, I'm gonna delay Fenris until turn five. So they've already spread some power around like,
01:25:55
Speaker
it's It's really interesting tension, just the interaction between Sean Fenris and Surtur scar. Yeah. And this card is going to be interesting at the very least. Yeah, I think it's super interesting, but I just think i is game winning in certain situations, but not guaranteed if you're playing well and.
01:26:17
Speaker
or if your opponent is playing well. And there's going to be plenty of situations where it just like doesn't do that much. But also this is a card that you can. It's a two drop that you can actually play on two. And like we like those. i've I've spent a lot of time thinking this week about US agent, a two drop that you can play on two, but probably shouldn't most of the time. And like give Madam when.
01:26:40
Speaker
Yeah, this is this is like something that you can, this can be part of your like early ground invasion. And ah if it doesn't work out, woohoo, you've gone on to live the rest of your long, full game life, you know?
01:26:56
Speaker
I don't know. It's something we're missing with White Widow and Jeff is still good, but not the obvious two
Gore the God Butcher Analysis
01:27:04
Speaker
slot. Yeah, just a two drop that you can play full steam ahead. We're just putting bodies on the board. Desert's gone. Silk is gone. Where are just the big two bodies that are like, this is what we're doing this turn?
01:27:17
Speaker
Also, so this is the part of the episode where I say buff Silk to 2-6 already, just do it. Okay, we can move on now. No, I agree with it. But I think, I do think Fenris Wolf would be a good card, but I feel like there's just this sense of he's such an easy free good card, and I think there's just some more factors to him than that. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Very strong when he works, I just, I don't think he's as free.
01:27:42
Speaker
um Do we just, while we're talking about those twos, is that one of the huge edges that Agent Venom has? Besides just being very strong, he's also a two you want to play on too? Yeah, that's that's definitely part of the... I mean, like, Ravonna's good for the same reason. Like, what are you doing on turn two? You're playing Ravonna, damn it! Like, yeah.
01:28:04
Speaker
Also with Agent Venom, it's like if you get him late, a 2-4 is still great, and you're probably playing him in a deck where you have you are playing out a lot of little power cards or something, or filling the board where he's good. so and It's rare you can kind of get one that you really want to hit on too, but it's still like, oh, it's still not bad later on at all.
01:28:23
Speaker
you know That card should not be 2-4. That's just... yeah I kind of agree. I really need to pick a lane, folks. Is it a card that you play onto or and feel bad about playing late? The floor is good set.
01:28:43
Speaker
yes ah The 4 is nice, the Symmetry with his ability, but Bast is a 1-1. We know they don't they like the Symmetry is nice, but we know that ultimately they care about mechanics. Not a must. yeah Okay. Gore, 6-1, ongoing, plus 2 for each on-reveal card in play. Gore the God Butcher.
01:29:10
Speaker
um yeah geez some bail Call him by his Christian name So I'm not super enthusiastic about this card does anyone have like real strong feet I mean like I've got thoughts, but I have no pep about it Does anyone love this card would they love to tell me why they love it?
01:29:30
Speaker
Okay. Well, I don't love it, but I did put it at number two because I think it's just a really strong card. As you can tell from the negative one, they plopped down. I mean, why. One, we know Gilgamesh is a good card. We know it's a good card.
01:29:46
Speaker
I think this is like just way easier to get higher than Gilgamesh. On-reveals just do great things anyway. Even if that Cosmo gets put on a non-reveal card, it's still buffing Gore. You know what I mean? And um yeah, it's like your opponents are likely to play. And because it's a card your last turn playing, like I said, you're not going to get Fenris-Wulfed.
01:30:13
Speaker
And here's the problem with Gilgamesh. I often, if I'm playing a Gilgamesh deck, I know where they're going to drop the Gilgamesh deck, because to spring the Gilgamesh, they're usually filling the board, you know, and it's some Dazzler nonsense. So I'm like, here's the one spot Gilgamesh is going, so if I can lose Prio, I can just shang it. But with Gore, you don't need, you're not filling your board for Gilgamesh reasons, you know what I mean, necessarily, and they don't know where it's going. And, you know, if that's your final drop, you're probably going to hit it big wherever you hit it.
01:30:43
Speaker
You know, I don't know. So I think it's good, but I think it's boring. I also don't play Gilgamesh like ever. And you said you had it at number two. Yeah, I think it's strong. I think it's just a strong finisher card. I would add in you have Viper Acid Arrow.
01:31:03
Speaker
Annihilus, both goblins that are cards that you can fill the opponent's board and still benefit Gore. Yeah, definitely like I think Gilgamesh is a very interesting comparison because isn't Gilgamesh plus one? So Gore is plus two. I think he puts it in nine, you know? Yeah, right. But Gore is plus two and targets both sides of the board instead of just your side of the board.
01:31:25
Speaker
one i don't i I ranked him six. It's probably too low. And I know i I'm like, I was hard on Ajax. I was, well, I actually, I knew, I knew Red Hulk was going to be good at, but it's just not my cup of tea. Yeah. But you'd love, I totally get that. I need to amend this list. Gordon does need to be higher than number six. Um, because I guess it's only seven on reveals for Gore to be bigger than, than Hulk. I mean, Hulk should not be our baseline. He's the vanilla card. Like that's the floor. That's not the, that's not the, uh,
01:31:58
Speaker
I mean, even my ongoing deck is playing two on-reveal cards in it. All other ongoing cards. It's just like, you're gonna hit some, I mean, if he's not playing some on-reveals in their deck. How big how big does he mean to be usually for you to want to play this card? I have some thoughts about that. Can I unpack my ambivalence here? about goon bad butcher Okay, I've got little enthusiasm for the card. It does, however, promise to deliver a mountain of stats. We're talking smaller than blob classic, bigger than modern blob. um So you can expect three on reveals from your opponent on a slow day. That's what I think. that's
01:32:37
Speaker
That's my hunch. I can't prove that, but like, I bet you get three almost every game. And you yourself should be contributing at least six if that's the plan, if that's like what we're doing here. So I think this card pairs extremely well with Kate Bishop and three of her four arrows. And for those curious about like, hey, what about Shanna, right? What about Shanna? That's that's a way to play multiple on reveals off of a single card. And for those curious about that Shanna math,
01:33:04
Speaker
There are 49 one-costs that will be out this month, Counting King Atri, and 23 of them have on-reveal. So that's a little less than half. So you're probably getting one to two. One and a half. Yeah, like one and a half-ish. So Shauna's probably good for like 2.4 or five-ish on-reveals. And yeah, obviously this card gets an extremely sweet deal from the Mr. Negative inversion.
01:33:32
Speaker
but I think the funniest home for this card is in a Ronin deck with master mold where you eric you're just daring them to play some Sentinels. Go ahead, go ahead. Yeah, smooth out your curve with a few more Sentinels. Do it, do it, do it. I'll give you plenty of rope to hang yourself. Okay, so those are my thoughts about Gore. i'm not I'm not like a fan of this card, but like you gotta respect a blob.
01:33:59
Speaker
What about Snowguard also? The guy kills gods, yeah. Oh, great. that is a Yep, that is a great way to get multiple on reveals off a single card, though not as quick as Shana. Wait, sorry, I missed it. What did you say? Snowguard. I've really wished that. Oh, forgot about her. The Auroras would be two costs. When is that going to happen? like Loki's not the terror he used to be. Let's make the Auroras two costs again. Yeah. Man, there's so much that would be easier if Loki weren't in the picture.
01:34:29
Speaker
he's He's not really anymore, of right? Like, that's why they changed him, is so that... No, Loki's still in the picture. He's just absorbed by Arish-em. Yeah, i kind of a tree. But he's not... I have seen... He's not the Ruiner of card gen cards, which was their whole point of changing his ability, is so that Kate Bishop wasn't just gonna be a Loki card. That's true. yeah His position has changed. You're you're right about that.
01:34:57
Speaker
Definitely wearing different hats than he used to. I mean, still the same horny head gear, but different metaphorical hats. I forgot about Mr. Negative, even though that was like the first thought when you are when you see his stat line in the first yeah place. Yeah, I feel like we've we've already we've talked about this card enough times that like, we've we've we've discussed the Mr. Negative angle, I just thought I'd bring it up. One Mo'gan. Yeah, he he replaces Gnoll in that deck.
01:35:26
Speaker
Yeah. Her degree.
01:35:33
Speaker
Dang it. I don't like big six cost cards. Yeah, I know. i I don't like it. I mean, I put it at number three. to figure out where to put him I need to put them higher. Don't worry about the rank. like I think we should just stick with it. I have to be accurate. I have to put Malakith higher, clearly. Yeah, I think our number rankings are not as important as the things we say about these cards. Discussion is more important. yeah yeah I think that's it. We have one more.
01:36:05
Speaker
I wanted to say for you guys are complaining about the six cost cards I think this and I used to always be on this side But I think maybe this is the season that turns it around for me, you know I think maybe I get into it, you know, the big
King Aetri's Strategic Role
01:36:22
Speaker
six quest cards. We'll see, cause like, I mean, like Surtur just, I don't know. I used to play that moonlight and madness stack that was all about, it's it's not viable anymore in the meta, but it was about, you'd slam down so much power, it was a sore on deck. You didn't care about armor protecting them, cause they can only shun one lane, you know? And I feel like Surtur is going to bring that energy back for me of like, just daring you to take me down, you know?
01:36:48
Speaker
Ah, we'll see. Anyway. Sorry, just for the people who might be enthusiastic about some, some big journal codes, you know? Just saying. Sorry, tangent over. Oh, I, I, I appreciated it. I enjoyed it. Speaking of cards that are hard to pronounce, King Aetri. Uh, I tried looking it up real quick, but it seems like In the mythology, there's not the eye on the end. and I was having trouble. Anyway, atree. A 1, 2, activate, draw a card that didn't start in your deck.
01:37:27
Speaker
So I'll just echo what we talked about last time where this is a card that goes with hammers, it goes with Loki if you get it first, it goes with Thanos, and it goes with Arisham. Yep, those three seem like the big home. Also, I think it should be pointed out that this is a perfect Jane Foster alternative specifically for hammer decks with Frigga because they sort of preclude, you know,
01:37:55
Speaker
Like you you can't, you can't do Jane Foster and then Frigga the Hammer. Like they they're just, that's, I mean, you technically could, I guess with limbo or whatever and extenuating circumstances, but that's ridiculous. And also, yeah, ah the yeah. Ben, you have to say it was more energy though. This is huge for him. didn't get much sleep. I also don't give a shit about hammers.
01:38:25
Speaker
I want to. I think it's fun. I think hammers are fun, but they're so wonky. You know what I mean? Because it's like if you get them late and all this stuff, but this is one to be excited about activate.
01:38:41
Speaker
is sewing that King entry down, you can, like you were just saying, comboing it with Frigga, you know, later setting up your hammers for success, setting them up for success. And it's like, for me, this is starting to solve some problems with the reason I haven't played hammer decks more. And that's huge. And I, I put it at a four because like power wise, but I think it fits in so many decks. And it's so fun. Because guess what? Almost every time. Oh yeah, it's definitely fun.
01:39:11
Speaker
You're putting a card in your deck yourself anyway. Don't draw a rock. Don't do You want to draw that card. It's a fun card to draw. I think a lot of decks are going to enjoy this card. It's cheap, so it's easier to put in than you know might otherwise. so I'm hyped for this card. I think it's a fun little card.
01:39:33
Speaker
I'm definitely looking forward to generating it randomly and using it to pull out a piece of vibranium or a rock or something. The off-label uses, I think, are going to be the fun part, is my thinking. Pulling a rock or vibranium, as we talked about before, is not the worst thing. No, it's obviously not plan A. That's not why you put them in your deck. Yeah, I'm disappointing. Definitely not. But you are finning it. You're less likely to. It's a draw still. It's still a draw.
01:40:01
Speaker
Yeah way down. and the drum I had the realization this is an interesting card because we know re especially hits activates because of how late they like that you can't play them late. But he enables you to play Thor or Beta Ray bill on turn five. Right? Like you could be four but like have But you shouldn't. Yeah. And now you can be like a tree and you get the hammer immediately on the turn that you played for. That's huge. Yeah, it's going to be hammer time that week. It's going to be so good. And it really it really helps with the curve of that deck, which doesn't always get to do for Beta Ray Bill Jane. Right. Like there's plenty of times you don't draw that. This really strengthens when the draws off.
01:40:50
Speaker
Although I still think he's probably... I don't think I gave him my ranking. I had King Atrey at number five. I have him at five too. Alright, well... Those are the cards, right? I'm confident in mine. Yeah! Yeah, hey, we did it! Would we all like to list them as as we discussed? Listiers, you start then! Alright. In the number one spot, Malakith.
01:41:15
Speaker
And number two, with all the bullets, Surtur. Number three, Gore, the God Butcher. Number four, Fenris Wolf. Number five, King Atrey. And number six, Frigga.
01:41:36
Speaker
Those are the cards as I see them. Again, these numbers are largely meaningless. Mostly it's about the content of the stuff that we said. So I'm not saying that any of these cards are bad. I do think that Frigga is probably the most skippable of them for me.
01:41:56
Speaker
All right. Okay. Are we amending our list? I know. That's what I need to know. No, no, no, I measured. I measured twice cut once. Y'all know this. No, no, no. But Bria and I, I need to move Gore and she needs to move Malekith. Oh, I mean, okay. No, I'm amending it. I'm amending it.
01:42:15
Speaker
All right, I don't stand by my own numbers, but my original list was Surtur, Gore, Fenris Wolf, King, Ettri, Aetri, Malakith, and then Frigalast, but I do, I don't know that would have put Malakith at number one necessarily, but I have been, I've seen the light, um and I do think I missed a lot with them there.
01:42:44
Speaker
Good, seeing the light of the dark elf. Yeah, the dark side. ah I still want dark to learn. Okay, continue. I still have, or I have Malakith, this is the original list. Malakith number one, Surtur number two, Frigga three, Fenris four, Atree five, Gore six. In retrospect, I think I'd shoot Gore all the way up to like two or three.
01:43:14
Speaker
Good lists and good discussion. I just love chatting with you both. I think it looks like a fun season. I agree. It's hard for me to decide where to put my keys. I think I'm going to spend them all early and be sad. It's so weird. This is the first time we're going into a season and we don't know what the next season is. Like if next season is a freaking banger,
01:43:42
Speaker
i would I would be more conservative with my keys this season, right? And maybe that's the point. Oh, it's so hard. I really, I really want a lot of these cards. And right in some of them that we put in the rankings lower, we're not because we don't, we aren't interested in playing with
Spooky Card Design Challenge
01:44:01
Speaker
them at all. It's just like stack rankings, you know? and so Yeah. And like part of it is like, I have Atrey and Wolf lower because partially because they're quite niche. Moving on to side quests. There's only one side quest this week because ranking week is is a long week. The secret homework was to design a spooky card. ah here's Here's mine.
01:44:31
Speaker
The character is not super spooky, but I think the context around his ability is very spooky. This is forget-me-not. It's a mutant who kind of, like, his ability makes it so that people don't notice him, even technology doesn't notice him, and when you aren't noticing him, he he's gone from your memory. Like, he gets wiped from your memory. So, like, there's evidence of him left behind, like, oh, he's eating cereal or using toilet paper, but, like, there's just Like he's, ah haven't they like retconned some like X-Men stories that like, oh, he was there the whole time, but he wasn't in the panel because everybody forgot about him. ah Pretty clever, clever little character. Forgive me not. That was a fun premise. Two, three. Like what a disturbing life, right? Like, anyway. Oh yeah. Sounds horrific. Two, three. Some Twilight Zone shit.
01:45:19
Speaker
I was you know reading on the wiki trying to find some like a card that would be good with this ability ah because that's so I did the ability first and then tried to find a card that would fit it. And I guess there was some point where he was like really close to getting his ability removed and then he decided last second not to because he realized he could still do good in the world because of his ability.
01:45:39
Speaker
um Okay. Forget me not. 2-3. This doesn't reveal until the game ends. While this is unrevealed, your opponent cannot see it. Whoa, I love it. That is brilliant, Lauren. Oh, wow. That's so very good. I thought about like, oh, there's a problem. What do you do in situations where it would become clear? Like,
01:46:05
Speaker
Yeah, like they try to play their goblin and the goblin doesn't come over. And I was like, Oh, I tried text. I tried having texts that would be like, or it prevents a card from joining this location, but it just made the text too long. Here's the thing. You don't have to put it in the text. I just want to know, like, yeah i um I considered because you don't want to make it confusing for players. And they only need to experience it once and be like, why did that happen? I can't figure out. And then at the end of the game, he reveals and they're like, oh, and then they would know in the future. But I do think it'd be cool if there was a little animation, like if it was revealed any way that he's there, like flash him for a second, like have him appear and then disappear again, have the opponent forget that he was there.
01:46:47
Speaker
What if it's a reveal animation, but you don't see which Laney was placed in? So you're like, oh, there's a forget-me-not. I think the context would make it clear which Laney was placed in, right? Yeah, if it was, well, if there was something that happened, like like you said, like a nebula or like something can't join the location, then and yeah.
01:47:07
Speaker
um i I... I also thought about, oh, but you're going to notice that their hand size is one smaller. And I'm like, it kind of just adds to the creepiness. Well, people notice that the hand size is one smaller. Most people won't. But it's like, the people who do, it's like, oh, so you know Forget Me Knots out, but you have no idea which line he's on. And I kind of think that adds to the spookiness. So I just kept it really simple. The only time he reveals is at the end of the game. Yeah, that's that's a very cool design. That's much more ambitious than
01:47:41
Speaker
What I had. Okay. I like the effect of the things like nebula and stuff could reveal a weird, unsettling, ghastly feeling. I ended up thinking that that that adds to the coolness. Yeah, I like it. yeah Get clues, you could detective it. Creepy.
01:48:00
Speaker
um oh then i next yeah Okay, so mine is a bonus because it's two cards. Two cards in one. um right so i picked and I forgot to look up whether this was like a Date of Mine card we didn't have.
01:48:16
Speaker
Info on. Hopefully not. But a it drew from the other card that I know is not in the game. I needed a connected card. So um the first card is Nicholas Scratch. um And it's a 1-2 cost. At the end of the game, summon Shuma Garath to this location.
01:48:39
Speaker
Now, if you're not familiar with Schumagrath, it's typically a Doctor Strange villain. um It's the demon that's a giant, giant eye surrounded by tentacles. Like a beholder if it was, if the tentacles were way huger or ah a jellyfish with a giant eye in the middle, and kind of deal. and It was in the latest Doctor Strange movie, right? Yeah. Or something like it was at the very least. It may not have been the giraffe, yeah. So it's a very big, it's a very Lovecraftian villain, right? It's considered kind of a, whatever they call their elder gods, maybe just elder gods or something. or Yeah, and it's kind of, so it's got those vibes of being summoned and being otherworldly and creepy. And okay, and Shuma Garath is a 6'6", with the ability, feel
01:49:32
Speaker
Say things right. Fill all empty spaces with a 0, negative 3 tentacle card. Oh, on both sides of the board? Correct. Double edge. Wow. I like that. And this is a 1, 2 that does this?
01:49:53
Speaker
Yes, but it's the one two that can get Red Guardian, that can get Kilmonger, you know what I mean? That maybe you didn't draw. But part of it is that you see it coming because it's an Elder God, right? So you need the you need the the fear. can you It seems insurmountable. Can you fill all your locations to avoid the minus three cards before he arrives? Wow, that's interesting.
01:50:20
Speaker
These are both much more ambitious designs than mine. That is terrifying. Good job. But there's interaction ability. A lot of decks now do end up filling a lot of their board, you know what I mean? And if they don't, like a negative three might not be enough to make a huge difference in the power they're putting into that lane, you know? So I think- The ones that don't play big cards, yeah.
01:50:45
Speaker
Hopefully not too overbounced. Like I said, it's a 1-2 that Elektra can take down, you know? Elektra's everywhere. Right? It's very themey with the summoning of the the Elder Gods, you know? um So, yeah. I wonder if you would add a clause like, you can't play this on turn 6, but... I actually...
01:51:10
Speaker
did It can be played when I made this and that. It needs to have like some kind of magic deal where you can't play it after turn five or something. People are able to need to see it coming, right? Yeah, I don't want to edit. You mentioned that that that the horror is like the build up and it's like, oh, do you have a way to deal with this by the end of the game? And I think that's fun.
01:51:33
Speaker
Yeah, no, it should definitely have a specific, and it's like, what turn is that? Maybe turn four might be the appropriate turn. You can't play it after whatever. so um But yes, I don't think you should be able to play it in turn six. Two OP. It's very cool. That is very cool. And the animation would freaking rule. Right. This this would be, in the in the time of big bads, this would be a one cost big bad.
01:52:04
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I suppose so. Or, yeah, yeah. A small bag. There's more counters than one. If they can't fill their sides of the board and they can't kill Monger, they could fill the side of your
Darkhold Strange and Card Aesthetics
01:52:19
Speaker
board with Nicholas Scratch on it so it can't summon Shuma Graft to that location. So you like gobble it or put debris rocks there or whatever. Several ways to counter it. I like it. Very cool. Very telegraphed.
01:52:35
Speaker
All right, Ben. Okey-dokey. Well, I went through some thoughts. I was like, I don't know that many spooky characters. I'm not a spooky kid, like as we established last week. i i'm i'm i'm but I'm about X-Men and Spider-Man, and I rarely venture beyond those walls.
01:53:00
Speaker
ah um ah But, you know, also, I haven't cracked too many comic books in the past 15 to 20 years, I would say. So I was like, well, what's what what can I pull from the MCU? Or what could I pull? To be honest, my first thought was I'm going to go through my versus system cards. This is a defunct Marvel card game of of Oh, I have some of those cards also. Yeah, I was like, I'll pull something from the ah the underworld faction. They've got a lot of spookies in there. you're Your Mephistos and your, you know, Ghost Rider villains and your.
01:53:38
Speaker
Doctor Strange villains and all sorts of supernatural horror things. But I'm like, but I don't know those characters, not really. I don't i'm like i don't really know them. So that that would feel fake to me. So i I didn't want to do that. And then I was like, what about Marlon from one of my favorite Spider-Man stories when I was a kid? ah It's the one that introduced Ezekiel Sims, who some people may remember from Madam Web, the ah ah film.
01:54:06
Speaker
um But no, he's way cooler in the comics. But anyhow, this Moreland character has been used several times in recent years to the extent that I no longer feel any sort of like...
01:54:18
Speaker
expertise or like ownership within my own mind of the character. I'm like, oh, that one's gotten away from me. They they used him too many times. So I'm not going to do Moreland. So I'm like, yeah, what's what's in the MCU that I could pull that i that I would feel qualified to speak of or whatever? you know you know like I just want to have like some claim to it as a thing that I know enough about. um And I went with, like speaking of Dr. Strange and the multiverse of madness,
01:54:46
Speaker
You know, that's it's a Sam Raimi joint, and it's, along with Werewolf by Night, ah easily the most horror-coded of the MCU offerings. um That and what, the Marvel Zombies episode of What If? um So I was like, yeah, yeah, pull something from Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness, and what's horrific there?
01:55:09
Speaker
You know, it's really horrific getting multiple versions of the same character. I don't like that stuff in ah licensed card games and VS System did it a lot. And ah Marvel Snap just recently did it for like the first time with Symbiote Spider-Man, a card that I'm sort of philosophically opposed to, although I think it's kind of neat. um So I'm doing a thing that I complain about.
01:55:31
Speaker
and dropping Darkhold Strange on you. The subtitles of Doctor Strange and the multiverse of madness refer to this character as Sinister Strange, but I decided that would be too confusing. What with ah Mr. Sinister. So Darkhold Strange is ah the spooky Doctor Strange that he meets about two thirds of the way through the movie, ah who has caused an incursion in his own reality by, you know,
01:55:59
Speaker
making deals with the devil and reading evil books and, you know, just the and being shady and doing Doctor Strange stuff, you know, like making his classic Doctor Strange mistakes, being unable to accept things. And yeah, the point is, anywho, I'm calling him Darkhold Strange because he's got the Darkhold and ah the stat line is 4-6. You may notice that is double the energy and double the power of Strange Classic.
01:56:28
Speaker
And yeah on reveal, like steal two power from the highest power card in your opponent's hand. So I like that he still grabs the highest power thing, except this time it's your opponent's and it's in their hand and he's stealing power from it.
01:56:43
Speaker
So it's like, it's a little bit basic and down and dirty. And I spent more time telling telling you how I arrived at this character than there was really to say about the card design. But that, you know, the assignment really, I was pulling my hair out over this one. And I just I wanted you all to know that a great deal of thought went into this very boring card.
01:57:06
Speaker
That's so cool. I thought Darkhold Strange was so cool like in the what ifs, right? It's such a dark storyline. You really set me up to think I was going to be bored, and you're like, Darkhold Strange. I'm like, I want that immediately. Also really cool, because the Darkhold having like with the double power, double cost.
01:57:30
Speaker
um All kinds of thematically appropriate. And I honestly think you even under tuned them. I would say you should steal like three power or whatever, right? You know, it's a good ability. Well, in that case, I mean, like it's already a like that's a 10 point.
01:57:47
Speaker
like It's effectively a 410 the way it is. It would be like a 412. It's only a 410 if they play the card, I guess. Right. Think about Silver Sable versus America Shavas. And part of that is, let's call this a Series 5 card. But I think also part of it is, in one of them, you control the two power. In the other one, they control the two power. That's true. I think they give more for stealing. That's true.
01:58:09
Speaker
Yeah, just a little. maybe Maybe it could be taken there. I don't know. I also had versions of the card that discarded a card to move their highest power card and steal. I went with like the simplest version. I knew it had to be your opponent's highest cost card. And i some other things that I thought might be good to work in there were stealing power, having Doctor Strange-like stats.
01:58:38
Speaker
so mad I really, I had so many like alternate versions of this card. It's a very cool idea. It's not that cool. It's not as cool as the Bolivar Trask one was. It's not as cool as, it's not as cool as Corsair. I don't know. But you're not done. What missed also is that like the variance for this card. They're gonna be so good. They're like and fabulous in ink. Like ah Dark Horror like. This is one that you're gonna want inked for sure.
01:59:09
Speaker
I want a kind of like dark horror scene. I guess we have the Momoko nightmares are pretty good. They are very good. i don't I mean, they're going to have to be premium mystery variants for me because, yeah. But I'll be happy to get one when I get
Closing and Next Week's Creative Task
01:59:26
Speaker
one. like so I want people to know that like I do ah do think the art in this game is very cool. I just don't like yeah throwing money at it. Resources, I agree. when It's hard to be. or yeah yeah Yeah, resource. ah yeah Any of it, you know. there There are many factors at work and none of them is Ben Hates art. I just want that to be known. The only nightmare product I bought was the Avatar. I did not get any of the cards. Just a little too pricey for me.
01:59:56
Speaker
Yeah, that's where it's at. But yeah. Are we ready to discuss next week's assignment? Yes, assign the homework. All right. I kind of want to open it up to a little bit of discussion. I've got some some options for you. I don't want to assign anything too burdensome.
02:00:21
Speaker
or I don't know. So let let me just start start pitching some stuff. How about, well, you guys haven't finished Agatha all along. And by by Friday, surely our listeners, probably many of them, the ones who are watching will have seen that. But my co-hosts are operating in ignorance of the final twists and things. One day for Halloween. Yeah. But I'm i'm i'm going to say, ah I think it would be fun if each of us designed a card around one of the members of the Coven on Agatha all along.
02:00:59
Speaker
You know, obviously not ah Agatha or the other one who's already in the game. I don't know where the listeners are in the in the series. I don't want to I don't want to spoil anything unnecessary. But yeah. um And if you guys decide you like the Coven design idea, I want you to know that I'll let somebody else have ah Lillia, the Patti LuPone character that I'm sure everybody really wants to do. So when one of you two could have her, I think I would take Sharon Davis, aka Mrs. Hart.
02:01:38
Speaker
playing five of the singular Deborah Jo Rupp of that 70s show, Fame. I think that's the one I would take if you guys like this Coven design idea. um I love it. If you don't like that idea or if you like this idea better, I would love to hear a parody verse of Marvel Snap related lyrics for The Ballad of the Witches Road.
02:02:04
Speaker
You can also do both, I guess, if you want. I'm all about the opportunities for extra credit. And if you guys... If you guys like those Oh, that's so much extra ideas enough, I'm not going to spend any further idea. Yeah, I won't even tell you what else I might be thinking if you like those ideas. I love them. Let's do it. Let's do it. Agatha, this is the only time it'll be so relevant, credit. you know? Also, I got to be honest, I enjoyed Agatha all along.
02:02:36
Speaker
a lot and I don't i I enjoy a lot of Marvel things, but my enthusiasm is rarely this wholehearted. I would say I'm very pro Agatha. um Yeah. Who do you want, Lauren?
02:02:55
Speaker
Is it is it Alice? Yeah. I like Alice a lot. Oh, I also like the potions. The potions lady. That's Jen. I know, I'm awesome. No, we've watched it all. Okay, then if you were into either of those, then I do want the tarot card reader, fortune teller. All right, so Reece taking Lilia, I'm taking Sharon Davis, and Lauren, who did you pick again?
02:03:24
Speaker
Uh, Alice, but maybe, maybe Jen, I'll take Alice. You'll take Alice. Alice is the protection witch. Yeah, I've, I have loved the show and I think that our parody verse should be, I think we should do one verse about our witch. Oh, okay. All right. This is man your homework. That's just my discussion part of it. Okay. Also the, the song verse is extra credit. So if you drop the ball on one part of this assignment, let it be that one.
02:03:56
Speaker
Cool, okay, that wasn't as bad as I thought. I'm i'm glad y'all liked those readies. You're doing great. Okay. We've come to the end, which is great, because I have to go pick up my kid from the Halloween party at school. um If you liked listening to this, and of course you did, because we rock. um I have this confidence in every aspect aspect of my life.
02:04:21
Speaker
um ah You know, follow, listen, subscribe, review, et cetera. We're on podcast places, we're on YouTube. Remy is making this very easy.
02:04:33
Speaker
um Twitter handles are in the video description or the or the show notes. um You can send us email, snaponthispod at gmail dot.com. We are proudly part of the Snap Judgments network, where you can listen to other great shows, like How Can She Snap, Snap Decisions, and Snap Judgments. I'm saying all three of them this week. This week, I'm featured on Snap Judgments, episode 100, which also features a very special guest from special from second dinner. I was going to say special dinner.
02:05:04
Speaker
um So check that out, I believe on sun Saturday. Check it out on Saturday, ah the latest episode of Snap Judgments. We have some pretty good discussion with the game's designer, a principal game designer, Glenn Jones. ah Hopefully that wasn't supposed to be a secret. ah If it was, congratulations on finding out one day at a time. And with that, tune in next week, same Snap time, same Snap channel.