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Episode 28 - Susanne Schustin, Group CIO of CEVA Logistics
131 Plays10 months ago
Susanne and Sade talk all about her journey into tech as a woman from a non tech background, to then working at Microsoft, to then her consulting career at the likes of Accenture and Deloitte.
As group CIO now, Susanne openly shares all of the incredible things her company are doing surrounding various DEI topics, as well as her thoughts on what we can do to encourage more women to embark on a career in tech and not shy away from it, especially at leadership level. I hope you enjoyed this conversation
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Transcript
Introduction and Career Journey
00:00:15
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to another episode of Women Talk Tech. Today I'm joined by Suzanne, group CIO of several logistics.
From Non-Tech to Tech Leadership
00:00:25
Speaker
Suzanne and I chatted all about her journey into tech as a woman from a non-tech background, to then working at Microsoft, to then her consulting career at the likes of Accenture and Deloitte.
00:00:35
Speaker
As group CIO now, Suzanne openly shares all of the incredible things her company are doing surrounding various DEI topics, as well as her thoughts on what we can do to encourage more women to embark on a career in tech and not shy away from it, especially at leadership level. I hope you enjoyed this conversation.
00:00:56
Speaker
So Suzanne, thanks so much for joining me. I'm so, so excited for this conversation. Yeah, tell me a bit more about
Global CIO Role and Relocation
00:01:02
Speaker
yourself. So my name is Suzanne Schusten. I am Danish, but four months ago I relocated to France and I took on a new position. I am the global CIO of civil logistics and moved here and is being joined by my family actually tomorrow. Oh, love that. So you did the move by yourself when you're finally now joining you later.
00:01:25
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. Not my children. They're grown. So they moved away from home, but spouse and dogs are coming tomorrow. Oh, amazing. You must be super excited, right? It must be really weird being here by yourself. It was weird, but you know, it also is a freedom to really dive into a new role and don't have to talk to anybody about anything. And you can just work and get acquainted with that.
The Power of Diversity in Organizations
00:01:50
Speaker
Cause it's a lot of new things when you move into a place and you get a new job and everything at once.
00:01:55
Speaker
Yeah, totally, totally. And before we kind of dive into it in the whole podcast, but maybe if you could just maybe describe on your side, what does DNI mean to you? And why do you think it's important, especially in the tech space? So diversity is something that I've been thinking about for many years, because I've worked for very large organizations, and most of them actually had policies on this. In the beginning, I was maybe a little apprehensive, because I think a lot of people think, oh, diversity is about
00:02:24
Speaker
promoting women or men and women, etc. But I think I actually learned very early on that diversity is really about
00:02:35
Speaker
having people from very different backgrounds, having lived different lives, and that brings different perspective. I think especially some of the tech organizations were very quick to realize that that actually made the organization stronger when we actively were pursuing diversity, because the world is diverse, the market is diverse, the workforce is diverse. And when you had that as a starting point,
00:03:04
Speaker
You're simply stronger. Yeah, totally. I think we tend to underestimate how much diversity does have an impact on so much. And it's so much more than just hiring more women, right? It covers so much more, and it does offer so much more perspectives. Absolutely. And let's kind of go into your journey into tech.
Early Tech Curiosity and Career Path
00:03:24
Speaker
Describe your journey. I know that it's not the most traditional, so to speak. Yeah, how did you kind of get into tech?
00:03:31
Speaker
So I think I was always a little fascinated with technology, but when I grew up, it wasn't even computers. It was very rarely early, I don't know, tech kind of toys. It was not something that you would buy for a girl. I was curious, I think, but it wasn't a big deal. It wasn't a big deal until I reached university.
00:03:55
Speaker
And I was studying human science, and I was about to get a degree in communication. And at one point, I discovered along with another student, I discovered that this university had a room full of computers, but they were not for us. They were for students of natural science. But we went in there. We started using them. I was halfway through the term doing a paper.
00:04:24
Speaker
And halfway through the term, we actually got kicked out of that computer room because now the people who are actually going to work there, they took over. And so I had, and that was back in the day when everything was on floppy disks. So I had a floppy disk with my, with a half written paper. And so I actually went out and bought a computer and finished my paper and I could barely afford the computer.
00:04:54
Speaker
So when we next year were, everybody was moving to actually having hard disks in your computer. I went out, I bought a hard disk for my computer. I couldn't afford to have anybody install it. And that was probably the first time I just took the computer apart and installed the hard disk. And it was, I have to say, it was a lot easier back then. But I just think that this kick started a love affair with technology and also gave me a sense of,
00:05:22
Speaker
Look, you know, if you can open it, you can fix it and then you can do it. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Wow. And how did you kind of how did you find your journey as a woman with a non-tech background? Because, you know, I think those two aspects are very tricky, right? Not only are you a minority being in a male dominated space, but also a minority in a space where everyone does normally go to university and study this. So how did you find that aspect of being a woman in tech?
Consultancy Challenges and Evolution
00:05:50
Speaker
My early part of my career, I was first a management consultant and then I moved into big tech consultancy, working with the technology competencies and working with the process optimization people, but I was actually at that point in change management.
00:06:13
Speaker
But when we did major projects, we did work in concert. So I was working together with the very, very technical people, coding, et cetera. I think I was very aware that I could not code, but just being exposed to it every day, I was exposed to the thinking of coding. And since I couldn't do that, I could participate with something else. So having that different perspective, I think it gave me a focus on
00:06:43
Speaker
what should the technology do for us? And I had time to fully immerse myself in that because I didn't also have to build the systems. So that was probably the way into really being part of these major, major technology transformations, but always for me with a focus on why are we doing it? What is it that we're going to be able to do as an organization once we have this technology? Yeah, wow.
00:07:12
Speaker
And you mentioned you got into consulting. How was that? How did you find that experience? Because I honestly, I speak with so many people, they either love it or they hate it. How was your experience in the consulting world? So I actually liked working in consultancy. This was before I started a family.
00:07:29
Speaker
It was hard work. It was a lot of work. It was long hours, but it was really, really interesting. And I think that you were able to feel that you were part of a team who actually made a difference. That part I liked very, very much. I started in consultancy as a senior consultant. I'd had a previous experience before.
00:07:53
Speaker
And then I became a manager, and then I was approaching senior manager. And at that point, you are on partner track if you're in consultancy, which means that it's up or out. So I think at that point, after some years, I was looking ahead and I was thinking, okay, where are the role models here? And obviously, the partners were role models. At that point, I probably started thinking a little more about
00:08:23
Speaker
Um, how would I see myself long-term in consultancy? And I was getting some doubts. Um, I saw that all the partners maybe except for very, very, very few exceptions, but most of the partners were men. All of them had stay at home wives or spouses. And, um,
00:08:46
Speaker
And it wasn't my life situation at that point. And I was starting maybe to find it a little difficult seeing myself in that world. And ultimately, I left consultancy and went to the financial sector because I knew I wanted to start a family and I just could not see how that could be done.
00:09:13
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And would you say that was kind of how the world of consultancy works? Or do you find that, do you think that's now changed? Because I think a lot of women, I think in many companies feel the same, but I can definitely see it in consultancy because I know there does come a lot of travel with that, a lot of hours, a lot of time and effort.
00:09:33
Speaker
And then trying to think about how you can build a family on top of that does become a tricky thing. Do you think it's changed now or is it still the same? It's definitely changed. I have no doubt it's changed. I've been a mentor for young female talents in the tech world for the past couple of years, and some of them are from consultancy, so I know it's changed.
00:09:55
Speaker
You should make no mistake. It is a lot of work. But to pursue a career, and if you really want to have a leadership position, it's not something you do in 30 hours a week or whatever. But I think the big difference today is the flexibility. Yeah. And it's different. I'm in an international environment today and have been for many years.
00:10:23
Speaker
It's obviously not the same everywhere, but I think that we're seeing more flexibility than I saw as a young consultant in the 90s.
00:10:33
Speaker
approaching the 2000s, yeah. Yeah, totally. And of course, you've worked at the likes of Microsoft, Accenture, Deloitte, EY, some really, really amazing names there. Do you think your experience was somewhat fast-tracked by being at the likes of these companies? Of course, let's be honest, it may not be the typical experience for many other women in tech, right? And of course, amazing that you've even had that experience at these companies. How did you find that? And do you think that kind of gave you a bit of an advantage now in your career working at the likes of Microsoft?
00:11:02
Speaker
First of all, I think it suited me to be in those environments for a lot of reasons. I really wanted to make a difference. I really wanted to do big changes that really had an impact. But I also really, really enjoyed being on the forefront of technology throughout so many years.
Advancements in Technology and AI
00:11:18
Speaker
I tend to get quite excited. I do come at it, and this excitement is really about what can this do for me and what will I be able to do?
00:11:27
Speaker
But I can get really, really excited. I love gadgets and I like that. And in consultancy, you do these future videos where you imagine what would the world look like in five years and 10 years. And those were some of the most exciting things you could show me because I was like, I want that and I want it now. I was really, really enjoying that. And I'm not talking about a few years, I'm talking about many, many years of being exposed to
00:11:55
Speaker
all the time, really the forward thinking of what technology can do for people, for organizations, for society. I think that has definitely given me an edge when I, because I've been accelerating between consultancy and then on the inside of organizations and being an entrepreneur myself.
00:12:15
Speaker
So I've been going back and forth throughout my more than 30 year career. And there is a fast pace and there is a such a strong focus on the technology companies, on new technology. And then you meet the real world and real organizations don't move as fast, but you can bring that mindset to it and really have that innovation perspective. I think that has definitely helped me, yes.
00:12:44
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's amazing. I think that's the one thing I love about tech as well, right? It's like the future world. It's like, what will the world be like in five, 10 years? And you're working on that now. And it's incredible, you know, when I think like, where were we five years ago, you know, and now, like, you know, how much has tech really impacted the lives we're living? Yeah, yeah.
00:13:03
Speaker
But something is different today than it was before. Now we're looking at artificial intelligence. My initial reaction was being really excited about it. But there's also an element that requires you to think about what will this do for society. It's just, it's getting more pervasive now. For me, it's more interesting, but it's also getting more complex. It's a far
00:13:28
Speaker
It's a first step from only being focused on how do you code this to really pushing yourself to think about not what just can it do for an organization, but what can these tools do for society, really?
00:13:43
Speaker
I couldn't agree more. I actually went through the airport recently and they had no people there for a start. There was just machines. I, of course, did it on accident, but the way it worked is that you scanned your passport, I scanned in my face, and I didn't need to use my passport ever again in the airport because it just picked up my face and it recognized my passport from when I scanned it before. Even that aspect of AI is quite scary because not only are there no people regulating the actual machine which we're using,
00:14:12
Speaker
Now my face is somewhat on a database everywhere because I feel like next time I go through an airport, do I even need my passport? Can I just scan my face? It's crazy how much AI is taken over, not just organizations, but society in general. But you just make the best case for why we need diversity and why we need people with less traditional backgrounds in technology.
00:14:36
Speaker
because if you were only a developer with sort of one experience in life, you would find that only amazing that your face was now in all the, you know, stored and forever, because you would probably have a very sort of, you know, practical focus. But if you start having a more
00:15:05
Speaker
You know, human science approach to this.
00:15:09
Speaker
you might start to be aware of some of the misuses that this could foster. Or even looking at, you know, do we have some unconscious bias here? Are we able to equally recognize all kinds of faces? And that's what diversity gives you, that, you know, perspective that maybe the whole world is not exactly like you. And we need to push you, sorry, to really question.
00:15:38
Speaker
Yeah, you actually just described my conversation in the airport because I said to the person I was traveling with, oh my gosh, this is so cool. Next thing, oh my gosh, where's my face gone now? It was like, this is amazing. I can put my passport and my bag, I don't even need to worry about it. Next thing, honestly, the panic just sheared down my whole body. I was like, where has my face just gone to? How many more computers?
00:16:03
Speaker
How many more databases has my kind of data now been shared with? You know, you're right. It's like the practical side versus the kind of human side, moral compass of like, is this actually the right thing to be doing with everyone's face if now just try with the airport, you know? And it's the trade-offs that we do. When we get excited about technology, we give something and then we get something. And most people think that that balance is really well. I get more than I give.
00:16:29
Speaker
Uh, but, uh, but it's something that we definitely are not done talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. And in terms of your role now, I know you're commonly working at server logistics. Uh, what does
Leadership in IT and Transformations
00:16:40
Speaker
it involve? How is it? And kind of what's the transition been like for you? Um, I know that you, you've not put a massive role yourself. Um, how is that and how's it going? I'm having, uh, I'm having a lot of fun. Uh, probably some people will be surprised that that is the first thing I say.
00:16:59
Speaker
but because it's tough. I'm the global CIO. I have a couple of thousand people in my organization. They're spread around the world. We're going through a lot of transformation, both because that's what we do in our industry, and also as an organization, we're growing quite a lot. I was brought in because I have a long career of transformation, and that's what I am driving.
00:17:29
Speaker
But that is also what motivates me. And that's why I say I do have a lot of it's not like, you know, fun, like you have in a in a theme park fun. But it's it is super interesting.
00:17:46
Speaker
And it is rewarding because I can use so much of my skillset and I'm having some really, really skilled colleagues and people in my organization. And that makes the hard work just much more interesting, really.
00:18:08
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And what would you say your role now involves? Of course, transformation is a big word and it covers quite a lot. What does it involve? And of course, how is tech incorporated into your role now?
00:18:20
Speaker
So I'm leading the IT organization and I am part of the executive committee of this company, which means that I am also part of what I do is also part of leading the company and not just my area.
00:18:41
Speaker
And we have some ambitious goals. There are things that we want to achieve. As I said, we've been growing quite a lot and have made some acquisitions over the past couple of years. So there is a lot of
00:18:56
Speaker
From a technology perspective, making it one holistic whole, supporting the operation and making sure that all my colleagues who are the transport logistic professionals have the tools that they need.
00:19:12
Speaker
Also, having the ability to support what we need to do in the market. In my role, you need to understand what does customers need, what does our partners need, what does our own employees need, on top of what does my own organization need.
00:19:31
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of people you have to kind of keep in mind people, companies you have to somewhat keep in mind about the changes you're looking to make and all of that. Yes. And coming at that with the perspective of what is it that we need to do? What do we need to do as a company? I've worked in transport logistics on and off for the past 10 years. So I'm familiar with the industry, but I've also worked in lots of other industries and really pulling those different perspectives together.
00:20:00
Speaker
to possibly come up with new and innovative ways challenging what we seem to think is what we usually do and bringing in that perspective of new technology. How can I help translate that? How can I, with my organization, translate it to my colleagues in the organization who knows about transfer logistics?
00:20:25
Speaker
how do we translate what technology can do for them? That world where technology and business meets is hugely interesting.
00:20:36
Speaker
Wow, wow. And of course you joined recently, so you went through the interview process at CB logistics very recently. How did you find diversity? I'm sure it was probably quite important to you to join a company that did value diversity. How did you find diversity? How did you see that it was shown in the interview process? Like of course it is really important to see that it's not a buzzword and it is really real in the company and it's
Recruitment and Diversity Commitment
00:20:58
Speaker
there. How did you kind of find the interview process with diversity in mind at CB logistics?
00:21:03
Speaker
Do you know what? I think something that you tend to forget early on in your career, but I would encourage people also to think like this. It's not just about the company finding out whether they like you and want you and want to hire you. It's also on you to really figure out, is this a company that I would like to work for?
00:21:26
Speaker
And would I like to be part of this team? Maybe I did not put so much emphasis on this when I was younger, but certainly over the past many years, that's also been the case for me. So what I obviously did as part of the whole recruitment process was looking at how does my organization, my current organization, how does it present themselves to the world? It was sending some pretty strong messages
00:21:55
Speaker
on LinkedIn and that kind of media about being a diversity-minded organization on the website itself. Now, I would strongly recommend that if you are an organization who really values and works and takes diversity seriously, that you talk about it. And I would also strongly advise against saying it if it's not true, because
00:22:23
Speaker
because candidates will look to it. And I think that Siva was presenting some really, really interesting stories. Our CEO was doing videos and I saw messages and stories on LinkedIn. It mattered. The only thing, it would not have mattered enough. But now that everything else clicked, it really, really mattered.
00:22:50
Speaker
Yeah, I really, really emphasize that as well because I think so many companies talk about it, but don't actually have it anywhere in the company when you actually go internal, right? Or you see what it's like to work there. And vice versa, right? I think so many companies have it everywhere embedded in their culture, but then don't even say anything about it. And I think it's such a massive selling point. You don't have to be a diverse team, but if you have diversity in mind in all you do, that's the main thing. Some companies may not be able to hire
00:23:19
Speaker
all of these diverse kinds, just due to the kind of talent they're looking for. But if you have and work or diversity in mind, that's the main thing. Yeah, absolutely. And you should really think about it broadly. For me, yes, I am a woman in a male-dominated industry and also on a male-dominated position. There are not that many female CIOs. But I'm also a dean.
00:23:45
Speaker
working within an executive committee that is a lot of French background. So that's also diversity and we are a global company. So even my own employees are scattered all over the world and having the language, the culture, the gender, everything diversity
00:24:15
Speaker
is super important. Yeah, yeah, because I don't think you can fix the diversity issue by just hiring diverse people, you know, that is one aspect of it. But if the culture inside does not scream diversity, or does not, you know, really value it, then even when those diverse talent join, they may hate it, because all of what the company is doing is not diverse. So yeah, I couldn't agree more.
00:24:35
Speaker
Yeah, but there's a but there's it's also hard. Yeah. And I think I mean, let's be honest about it. If you if you sit in a group, and you're all pretty much the same, and you're from the same place, and you like the same things, it's easy. You know, nobody rubs you the wrong way. Nobody says anything that surprises you in a negative way. And it's easy, and you can become a little complacent. Yeah. But when you when you
00:25:04
Speaker
you know, design for diversity, it's getting hard because that actually means that you design for views that are not necessarily completely compatible all the same time. You are inviting in different perspectives, which can be annoying, right? It's so much easier when you say something and people go, okay, and they completely understand it.
00:25:31
Speaker
And having a diverse group of colleagues and a diverse workforce, you're forced to be very, very clear and to all the time take the other perspective and think about how could this be maybe misunderstood or interpreted in a different way than I intended. It keeps you on your toes, but you are also actually getting much closer to the world where your business is
00:25:58
Speaker
executed every day because they are not like you. Yeah, no, no, totally. I couldn't agree more. I mean, there's been so many times I've been in rooms where I've been one of 10, you know, that are all the same. And I'm like, oh, this is great. And then I joined a room that's completely different. And I'm like, this is hard. This is hard to be maybe the one person, the one that thinks a bit differently, that is looking a bit differently. And not easy, but it's so important to be putting yourself out there and to, I guess, invite different perspectives and opinions in you, because that's how you learn the most.
00:26:26
Speaker
Yeah, but it's interesting and it's good to think about. When I was joining Microsoft, this was many years ago, I was the only woman in a big team of men and they were all very, very alike. They were all engineers, they were all the same age, white, Caucasian engineers around 40.
00:26:49
Speaker
and I joined and I was the only female so we were going on a trip and I volunteered to drive and nobody wanted to drive with me and I took offense I was like that's because I'm a woman and why don't you want to drive with me and I was really upset about it and then finally there was this guy and he okay he wanted to drive with me and I actually asked him like why didn't nobody want to drive with me and he said do you know what
00:27:13
Speaker
They're shy because they don't know you, you knew. And they were great to sit in a car with you for many hours and maybe you didn't have nothing to talk about. And that was such a sobering experience for me because I, you know, I thought they didn't want to drive me because they didn't want a female driver. And these guys were just shy because they realized from the minute I walked in the door, you're different. What if I had nothing to talk to you about in a car for four hours? I don't know.
00:27:39
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, totally. And it is sometimes uncomfortable, right, to have conversations with people that you're not sure if you're going to vibe with, if you're going to have anything in common. But that's where you learn the most. That's where you really grow. And that's kind of where diversity really, really does take off. And looking forward, you know, of course, you've had an amazing career in tech, and I would love for so many other women to have the exact same experience. What do you think the issue is? And how do you think we can encourage more women to get into tech?
Encouraging Women in Tech Leadership
00:28:09
Speaker
So, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think what's important to understand is that you can do tech from different vantage points.
00:28:21
Speaker
Well, first of all, we do need a lot of female in natural sciences, anything from mathematics to physics to whatever. I think that's important. But if you really feel that that is not who you are, you still have a pretty big role to play in tech. I really wanna highlight that technology is more than coding. Technology is also designing what technology should do
00:28:51
Speaker
It's about the processes that technology should enable. It's about the impact it has on people. So you can come at tech from many different backgrounds. I think that's, first of all, important. So women can start seeing themselves with a background that makes sense to them, that they can still have a role to play. And really, the same thing with the leadership.
00:29:20
Speaker
I'm not saying there is no such thing as a glass ceiling because there is definitely no doubt about it but there's also a little bit of I would say a thinking of
00:29:35
Speaker
this might not be for me without really challenging that notion in yourself. And I think a lot of females are maybe holding themselves back a little bit from leadership because they think it's a lot of work. And I have to be honest, I have seen a lot of women work very, very, very hard in positions where they were maybe not having the formal power to influence a lot of things, but they did a lot of work.
00:30:05
Speaker
And I'm thinking like, why would you not want to get ahead? So yes, you will still do a lot of work, but you will, you know, the more you move up the hierarchy, the more you will be able to influence things and, and don't shy away from, from power because power is the ability to influence things. Why would you not want to do that? I find that difficult to understand.
00:30:29
Speaker
Wow. Yeah. No, I couldn't agree more. And I think that's one of the reasons why I'm doing the podcast right. Because I think having your voice heard and really just shining a light on why tech is cool to be in is what we should be doing more of, you know? Absolutely. And what would be the one piece of advice you would give to either your younger self or other women looking to get into tech? If you could maybe say one thing to them now and you actually say, why did no one tell me this before? What would that be?
00:30:58
Speaker
I love this question. And I think what I would have liked for somebody to say to me when I was younger is, look, you just go ahead. And what do I mean about that? I think that when opportunity presents itself, I think we are
00:31:15
Speaker
Sometimes it goes for a lot of people, but maybe women are a little more prone to this. We see an opportunity and we think, oh, I might not be able to do everything and I might not excel at this from the very first day. And I wish that somebody would have said to me, you know what, that's okay. You just go ahead. You just throw yourself at this and you have resources.
00:31:40
Speaker
And when you're really being pushed, you find resources you didn't even know you had. So don't worry about whether you already know that. Cause you will find out and you know, have that, have trust that. Yeah. Cause you may not know anything. You may not know anything. You may find out, you know, more than what you actually thought and, and almost shutting yourself off before you even give us a chance is, is what really holds people back. Yes. And you will be uncomfortable, but the thing is, if you don't have an amount of
00:32:07
Speaker
feeling uncomfortable, what's the alternative? It's being completely comfortable all the time, which is actually not even standing, so that's going backwards, because the whole thing is moving ahead. And you have to endure a little bit of uncomfortable feeling, but that's when you grow, and that's when you get really, really proud of yourself.
00:32:30
Speaker
Wow, no. Honestly, I think that's an amazing place to end. And honestly, I can't thank you enough for joining me on this conversation because I think I'm walking away learning so much about people's journeys and about the tech world more. So thanks again, Suzanne. Really, really appreciate your time and thanks for sharing your insights and experience. Thank you so much for having me.