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Episode 35 - Yolanda Sylvana Rother, Co-Founder at The Impact Company
58 Plays7 months ago
In this episode, Sade and Yolanda engaged in a deep and insightful conversation all about Yolanda's inspiring journey and the driving forces behind her decision to establish The Impact Company.
They explored the various aspects of her personal and professional experiences that led her to create an organisation dedicated to making a positive difference. Additionally, Yolanda shared her perspectives on the current landscape of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) in Germany.
She offered reflections on how different social, cultural, and political factors are shaping the present state of DEI and provided her vision for how these influences might evolve to impact its future.
We hope you enjoy!
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Transcript
Welcome and Introduction
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Speaker
um
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Speaker
Hello and welcome back to a new episode of Women Talk Tech. Today, I'm joined by Yolanda, co-founder of The Impact Company. In this episode, we chatted all about Yolanda's story and motivations for founding The Impact Company. Yolanda also shared her thoughts on the current landscape of DEI in Germany and the impact various factors may have on the future of it. I hope you enjoy this conversation.
The Impact Company: Founding and Mission
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Speaker
So Yolanda, tell me a little bit more about yourself. Yeah, thank you so much for having me on this podcast today. My name is Yolanda Roter. I have the pronouns she, her, um and I'm the co-founder and managing director of the Impact Company. um Now, the Impact Company is a diversity culture and audience consultancy, um and it was founded by myself and my co-founder, Sean Williams.
00:01:05
Speaker
um about three and a half years ago. And really we set out to support organizations as they navigate this, what we deem the diversity era. um So really we receive all types of different requests regarding diversity, whether that's to conduct a diversity survey or to develop a DEI statement or to support when it comes to um understanding and recognizing bias um or really trying to, you know, um bring in structures into organizations. um And we do that across the board, across different industries, um from startups that are in the green tech space or are who are providing climate solutions, um all the way to streaming um media companies such as Netflix or WarnerMedia.
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um or even um yeah like um health and beauty providers such as Flaconi. So we're really um thrilled and so grateful that we've been able to work with a lot of different organizations who've really set out to um have an impact when it comes to diversity, equity, and inclusion.
The Importance of DEI in Business
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Speaker
Yeah, wow. I love what you said when you said the diversity era, because I do think we are in ah in a time where it feels like a bit like ah like a buzzword, right? It feels like everyone's trying to to do their bit. But I think some companies and some industries are not are just not yet equipped to do that. And that's kind of where you guys come in to kind of help with all our areas of this realm that still feels a bit unknown, but we know we have to do something about it. Absolutely.
00:02:38
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. And we really, um you know, also assessed where we are in this time and day and feel like this is a diversity era. If organizations aren't um geared towards that, if they aren't prioritizing that, um we really think that there they might be running into um some issues further down the line. I'm sure we can get into that a little bit more, um but yeah. Yeah, no, amazing. And I guess you founded a company on this on this topic, right? So what does DNI mean to you and why is it particularly important to you and and I guess your your story personally? um Yeah, glad to share a little bit about my personal story um and then to show you how it ties in um with you know the founding of this
00:03:24
Speaker
business. So, um first off, born and raised here in Berlin, Germany. um I have a Jamaican mother, a German father, so I feel like um somehow um building bridges, if you will, has always been something I've been doing. um And um yeah, I mean, DI is really something I think that um can provide an answer or response to a lot of difficulties, challenges, business cases that we're seeing. I mean, we're all hearing about the different types of gaps, whether that's the gender pay gap or the gender care gap or the
00:04:02
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um racial pay gap. um And I feel like, you know, those are also somewhat of buzzwords, um but diversity um management um done well, done strategically, can really provide um solutions to these gaps. They can really fill those gaps. um Of course, diversity, equity, inclusion to me also um is in a way a response or a way to um reduce cases of racism, of sexism, other type of isms. And that's why it's so important really for organizations to prioritize that. Specifically, I'd like to also go into why diversity, equity and inclusion is important to me here in Germany.
Making the Business Case for DEI
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feel like we're, um you know, there's enough studies that really show um that Germany is running into um a shortage of skilled workers within the next couple of years. um And that means that um they're going to be bringing in or Germany is going to be um bringing in, i you know, skilled workers that are not born and raised here in Germany, but that are coming from, you know, different countries. um And I think that really being able for an organization to have those people come into a place where they feel included, where they feel like they can um perform at their best possible level um is so important for businesses who are really thinking about their very own future.
00:05:34
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Yeah well I love that because I think you know aside from our own personal story yes that's all important for each of us it's really beneficial for our company right to have more talented workers that are from different backgrounds like it it's like a bit of a no-brainer right yes it's good and it's lovely it's good for the world but it's also really good for a company to get more talent involved that do happen to be from a different background as well. Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like that's really like the mission of the impact company. um Our mission is really to ah make a business case out of it, which you know could be a little bit like, oh, why does it have to be a business case? But it's its you know it's it's really helpful also if you're talking to leaders who are crunching numbers. um And I feel like
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um you know understanding the business case behind it, understanding that more diverse teams will lead to better decision making, will lead to more representation, will maybe even drive um you know new markets, um and will eventually lead to future-proofing that business um is really, really helpful when it comes to making the case for investing in
Origin Story and 2020 Influences
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DEI. Yeah, totally, totally. And take us back to the beginning prior to where you are now. What were your kind of main motivations for founding the Impact Company? I mean, like I can hear the passion in what you're doing already, but I'd love to kind of hear like, okay, how did you get to where you are now?
00:06:56
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um Yeah, so ah I'm going to really take you to all the way to the beginning. so My co-founder and I, we actually know each other. Fun fact, since first grade. so um um Yeah, it's one of those stories. hu So and we went to um the same school um in Berlin. It's a German-American school. um And um we we basically spent our, you know, school life um um together, let's say. um And then kind of, you know, 2008 when we both graduated, did our own thing. And then 10 years later,
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um a mutual friend of ours was hosting a birthday party and we kind of reconnected and had like, you know, discussed that we were having similar experiences at our respective workplaces. And at that time we were really, you know, um thinking about drawing up a lot of different things that we could possibly um do together. And one of those was um creating a community platform or um doing something in regards to journalism. It was all over the place, let's say. And then kind of like didn't continue up the conversation because those type of things was take their time. When 2020 happened, I mean, 2020 was an extremely pivotal year in so many different
00:08:19
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aspects. So 2020, my contract I was employed at the time was running out. um And so I thought now or never, now is a great time to start a business. um And then um Of course, we all remember that George Floyd was murdered um at the end of May in 2020 as well. So um that really pushed me onto the streets, pushed me into more communities, um and really made me um take on a much more active role. um And um at the same time, it all kind of happened at the same time where I was also um you know going into building a business a plan. At the time, it was a little bit of a shift from what we have now.
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um yeah But basically i I then got like an initial um amount of funding for um you know becoming a start becoming a founder. And this was great because it really you know backed me with my initial idea um and it just gave me the confidence to keep going. And um then I was able to reconnect with my co-founder whose contract was also coming to an end. And he was like, you know what, there's a sweet spot here with the idea that you have and the thoughts that I'm having. Let's go back to the drawing board.
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let's come back to these ideas. And so that's where we kind of started um you know getting more concrete um and really identifying what it is that we want to do with the impact company. And that was sometime around um November, 2020. We really went into the market in 2021, around March, 2021, so a few months in.
Challenges in DEI Post-2020
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um And looking back at these now three, three and a half years, um you know we've really been able to work with a lot of different clients. um And um it's it's pretty impressive actually to look back at that.
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Wow, wow. Honestly, I love the story because I think, you know, what like when we first spoke, not only took to come out in the pandemic, which in itself was already a struggle for many, for many businesses that were actually already functioning were still struggling in that time. But to actually use the the kind of the the George Floyd story that everyone was you know really experiencing in their own personal way and and use that and and really be motivated by that to truly make a difference. It just shows that the true impact you are having with the impact company. So honestly, the story really is incredible. And how have you found the journey so far? like you know i could What I was really stuck by, what you said is is making a business case from the impact that you'll be having. How have you found that that that part of the journey and actually the journey itself? um Well, let's um let's say it's been um fun. It's been challenging. It's been an adventure. It's been a lot of different things, to be honest. um I found the journey so far
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to be, um yeah, I'd like to say rewarding, but it's definitely also come with its own set of challenges. And I'm happy to elaborate and elucidate a little bit on that. Essentially, I feel like what we really saw um in the wake of Black Lives Movement and companies trying to make a stand, take a stand, um was that, you know, there was a lot of commitments being made publicly. um These commitments especially come from companies based in the United States or even in the UK. um And German companies were um also thinking about you know how could they basically make take a stand. um Nonetheless, I feel like i what we're seeing now, two or three years after that,
00:11:51
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after those bold statements um is we're seeing a drawback from it. I feel like companies are feeling um quite frustrated with the journey of DEI. And it makes sense. DEI is not something that you know you can make a statement and then it's taken care of. It's really something that requires ongoing investment and ongoing commitment. So I feel like um you know even if you want to look at like the maturity of DI companies, we're seeing like a lot of companies that are like in this compliance stage. they
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they they they're compliant, they want to be held accountable, they want to you know um meet DEI targets, but they're also loosening up some of these targets and because it's just so frustrating to get to that more integrated DEI state or to get to that more sustainable DEI state. um so um And we're also just seeing a global pushback on DEI. We've seen, we've heard the numbers of DEI officials being um um those those positions being scaled back, the budgets being scaled back. So that's really where we're seeing where we're seeing a lot of challenges. um And there's a lot of objection right now when it comes to diversity, equity and inclusion, all the while, we're seeing that you know there's a lot more right wing politics coming up as well. So it's a strange type of ambiguity. um But nonetheless, there there are organizations that um you know really are reaching out. They really are focusing on that. They really do understand the business case around it. And they really do want to you know stand um with the eye and continue their efforts around that.
Surface-Level vs. Deep Diversity
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But it's it's ah it's been a bit of a roller coaster.
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Wow, I think that's honestly been one of my my biggest frustrations in what's been going on in Germany and and in the wider kind of tech scene or just wider world at the moment, because I just don't don't understand why the DEI side has been massively affected. Like it it has an impact, it does have a positive impact, but it still feels like it's that it's being the first thing to be cut when money is getting tight. um And I just, I would love to know why, you know, why do you think that's been the case? I think, I mean, I think it does go back to some of the things that I've said. um And I think that, you know,
00:14:11
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um putting effort into DEI will not yield results um immediately. It's a long process. um And I think that um there's also not enough um robust data relating to Germany specifically around DEI that really can make that case. Some people still think that DEI is quite fluffy um and that it's they don't really see why um it can actually benefit their business.
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um and And also, there I feel like you know we're speaking of these terms, DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion, and it can mean something different to every organization. oh But you know organizations might be like, well, we have diversity. And they might be right. They might have diversity. um And therefore, they think they're in the clear, and everything is good. Why should we go in and invest anymore? We have um employees from more than 30 nations, or we have um so-and-so many different religions represented. But what they don't understand or what they don't see is that um basically that can go well for a pretty long time. But if you're going to look at it and really see what is the representation across the board, do we have enough representation in leadership? Do we have representation in higher decision making positions? And if that's not given, if that's not being managed, if that's not being assessed,
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then the question really is, how um how diverse are you as a company? Are you just diverse in the junior positions, in the lower positions, let's say? um Or is that diversity really being um looked at from an intersectional perspective? And are you making sure that you're also reducing certain things such as bias in your hiring processes? Are you making sure that when you're going on a hiring drive, um you're really ensuring that you're you know you're you're reaching out um and you're basically widening the gate as much as possible to ensure that you're having the best possible candidate out there. um and And how are we ensuring that there's not like just a
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replication of of of certain collective behaviors, et cetera. So I feel like, you know, there's a lot to take into consideration. And just because also a company might be diverse today, doesn't mean that that company is going to remain diverse in the future, unless it's something that they really put at their core, at their DNA.
Biases in Hiring
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Yeah, totally. Because a lot of companies hire, say, women and think, oh yeah, we're done now. We've got we've got a 50-50 gender balance split, or we've got we've done that. But hold on a second, if all those women are in HR, that's not really diverse, because you you your technical team or your finance team is still still very male-heavy. Or, you know, let's say all of your your the women you've hired are are white and blonde. Again,
00:17:03
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not particularly diverse so I think you're right we seem to be just kind of hitting diversity from like a surface level and not really kind of digging deep into the nitty-gritty of what it is to be diverse and what it is to actually get that within the DNA of a company. Absolutely and I feel like you know as you mentioned that surface level um I totally agree with what you're saying and once we go into the nitty-gritty I feel like it requires a an element also of self-reflection from a social standpoint, but also self-reflection from an organizational standpoint. And that self-reflection does require um you know introspection and it might actually lead to tension and it might lead to um frustration. And um so those are elements that can make that journey um a little bit sticky. So I feel like companies are frustrated with that.
00:17:56
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Yeah, and I guess likewise as well, right, unless I find that especially within large companies, you tend to have the the diverse group being the people to fight that fight. And let's say you're trying to hire more people from an ethnic background, if you've only got white blonde males, how are they meant to fight that fight? You know, it it then gets to be quite a ah difficult conversation. And how do yeah how do you kind of go about that? It's a tricky one for sure. I know how I would, but it still feels like companies aren't doing it. Absolutely. And I mean, um just the other um in another project, um there was a, you know, an objection or a comment that was made that was saying that hiring on women in an engineering roles is more expensive.
00:18:39
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um And that kind kind of like, you know, I don't want to say didn't sit so well with me, but it was just like, it's interesting that that's the view because essentially it's like, um you know, women historically, we're seeing that women are requiring or asking for less comes to their pay. So, and then there might not be, you know, some some companies don't know exactly where to reach women um when it comes to like a very, deep tech engineering role. So they might bring on an agency to help them with that. So there's costs that they are going to be putting towards that and therefore they're going to feel like, oh my God, hiring on a woman is more expensive. But if they really go and look at, you know, that actually um
00:19:27
Speaker
the men they would have more historically or traditionally hired for that role would have possibly asked for a higher wage. um Then first of all, you you have a different, you you can crunch those numbers and see, wait a minute. um Does that even make sense, the calculation there? And at the same time, it's not only about that absolute number of, OK, we've had to bring on an agency. The hiring cycle is taking us a lot longer because we're looking for specifically a more diverse hire for this role. But it's also about, you know, what is the value that then is generated with that hire? Because essentially, by having a perhaps woman perspective now in an engineering team,
00:20:11
Speaker
you you might be um um reducing your risk and you're upping your opportunity in order to ah make sure that the product that you're developing is actually representative and may actually target more um of your target group.
Highlights from Yolanda's DEI Journey
00:20:26
Speaker
So I feel like there's sometimes shortcuts in our thinking. Obviously we know that as bias, but you know it can come up in so many different ways. um And what that's one way that it can come up. So um yeah, it can be a little bit challenging here and there um to to even you know formulate scripts or have answers to these type of objections. But that's part of the job. And I try to find fun in it um as much as I can.
00:20:54
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I actually was going to ask that. like you know What's been the highlight of your journey so far? like We've touched upon the challenges and they're there. What have you enjoyed the most? Because it can't be all doom and gloom, surely. No, it definitely is not. it's not i'm ah I'm anyway a very optimistic person um and and find joy in a lot of different things. And I feel like you know theres there's been a lot of um moments that have been highlights for me. One of them for sure must have been We were invited to come to the German International School in Silicon Valley. So we were in the United States um and worked with that school for um a solid week.
00:21:32
Speaker
And so we really had enough time um to to speak with every single stakeholder. um And that was, of course, what a huge highlight, you know, being being you being able to travel all the way over there. um And there's definitely also different highlights such as, you know, just being able to have this masterclass on allyship um that I just had um the other day um and having people you know really reach out and be like hey those were some really great inputs and that really had an impact on on me and um and you know you know it's people are taking this back to their organizations but they ultimately are also taking this back to the for themselves so um even being able to just impact one person as cliche as that sounds is wonderful
00:22:18
Speaker
Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more, right? Because, you know, yes, a wider picture, that would be incredible to attack. But you have to start somewhere, you have to kind of start small. And I think that's what you guys have been doing so well. And keen to kind of touch upon you as you are kind of out in the forefront or in in in the thick of it, should I say.
Current DEI Landscape in Germany
00:22:35
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ah in Germany, in the DEI space. What's your kind of current take on on the landscape that we have and the the current situation? Because I think it is probably a different situation to what it was, say, 2020 when you founded, when you kind of came up with the idea. Where are we at now? Well, um I'd say that, you know, I feel like the conversation has definitely shifted somewhat.
00:22:57
Speaker
So when we started with the Impact Company in 2020, I would say that the conversation around DEI or diversity was very much more focused on um hiring on more women in leadership positions. la And I'd say that, at least this is my perception of it, that this the the understanding of diversity as more than just one dimension, that and that being the gender dimension, but really that being, you know, there being more dimensions to diversity, um that that's really, you know, part of the discourse.
00:23:35
Speaker
um At the same time, I would say that the specific landscape in Germany um is a very interesting one right now because there's um voting happening in the EU, there's also some votes happening in Germany, and and there's um quite the momentum that's coming from the right-wing parties. And so and there's a real solidarity when it comes to um you know taking a stand um for more inclusive um for more for more inclusive society.
00:24:11
Speaker
And that society obviously um can be reflected within an a company's organization or like an organization setting. So I feel like companies now are um ah trying to really take a stand as much as they can um towards you know where they lean politically. And so we're seeing a lot more solidarity and a lot more um talk from companies that are saying, hey, we stand for more integration and more diverse um diversity. And so I feel like the momentum is all over the place, but right now it's kind of gearing towards that with with also the Europe um election
00:24:53
Speaker
um looming within the next three weeks.
Inclusive Recruiting and Gen Z
00:24:56
Speaker
Wow, wow. It's interesting how there's so many aspects of DEI that can affect, you know, the current landscape. It's not now, like you said, it's not just gender, it's about politics. And even then in itself, I don't call myself a, not a politician, but an expert in politics whatsoever. So I, you know, it would be quite hard to kind of take part in these sorts of conversations, right? But it's all about the education aspect. It's all about eding okay educating yourself on these sorts of topics so you can you know stand up for what's right and and what's wrong and kind of what you feel is is morally morally correct. Absolutely. absolutely yeah There definitely is a huge um educational aspect there as well. I feel like you know if I were to um assess um the current landscape of DEI in Germany, I feel like um at least through my lens
00:25:42
Speaker
there's much more of an awakening that racism and um sexism is something that can ah also have a stronghold in an organization in Germany. And I don't think that that conversation was really yeah where we were four years ago. So I really think that that's been shifting and we're like much more aware that DEI also matters to organizations based in Germany. Wow, wow, wow. And on the topic of kind of more inclusive recruiting, because I know that that's kind of what you what you can help with. And that's kind of what you've been doing. Tell me your thoughts on this, because, yeah, I don't want to be, an ah you know, get let's do it. I know why it's so impactful, but it's just great to hear other people doing the same thing.
00:26:23
Speaker
What are your thoughts on kind of more inclusive recruiting and the importance of this? I mean, as you say, the importance of recruiting and that being inclusive is is very much key. um I mean, i HR has such an impactful and pivotal role when it comes to um diversity and diverse hiring. um It can't be stated enough. um But essentially, you know when you're bringing in new members to an organization, when you're hiring on new talent, and When you're also searching, when you're doing talent acquisition, um it's so important to really be aware of of the um typical bias traps and, you know, making ensuring that you have a good understanding and a good grip of which biases are out there. um And, I mean, granted, we're all prone to bias. There's nothing we can really do about that. But we can, you know, um sharpen our senses for um different types of biases, um especially in recruiting. There's so much research that is being done right now around that, that is able to make oneself familiar with that, get a training on board, and ensure that the processes around inclusive recruiting try to eliminate as much of that bias. um And I think then, um you know, and by ensuring that whether that's a job description, that's, um you know, not
00:27:45
Speaker
using gendered language um or the you know where you're also advertising the the job um opening is um you know really reaching the right um pools and the right target um um candidates um all the way to the real hiring process, the interviewing process. um All of that are elements of inclusive recruiting that need to be taken into consideration. um and And I think, you know, it's let me just say that, you know, especially as Generation Z is um also just putting on more demands now to their employees, to their future employers, sorry, um to become more inclusive, um it's like,
00:28:33
Speaker
If a company isn't recruiting inclusively, um there' there's real like risk there that they're losing out on great talents and they're not going to be future-proofing their very own
Partnerships and Consulting
00:28:46
Speaker
business. So I think it's super, super important um to really take that point and and make that a ah priority for any business that's out there recruiting. Yeah, totally. And you know, on the topic of Gen Z, I think one thing I love about the generation and they're just, but they're really outspoken about what they believe is right and what's wrong. And I think with the whole more inclusive recruiting topic, Gen Z are of actually talking about it, which I don't think we probably had before, right? We'd probably know about the issue when it comes to inclusive recruiting.
00:29:15
Speaker
you know maybe 10, 50 years ago but we weren't really speaking much about it whereas now I feel like Gen Z are talking about it a lot and saying this is what we should be doing here's what's right here's what's wrong and like you said we're missing on a hell of a lot of talent just by not talking about it enough I think. Oh yeah, absolutely. And I feel like Gen Z is not only doing that for their very own people, but it's really like also you know um impacting how um how other candidates are are viewing this whole process. So um just what you're saying is absolutely right, yeah.
00:29:47
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And I know that when we spoke last, you kind of were were kind of working with Otter and you kind of just launched a new partnership. Tell me a bit more about that because I was really excited to learn more about it. Yeah, I mean, first off, um let me just give you a quick rundown of Otter. So Otter is based in the UK, but they're operating all across um Europe and um they they're basically are a hiring platform, a job matching platform. that like really focuses on DEI and it's fantastic the work that they're doing um and and yeah I was so glad to work with them now for um the past couple of weeks. um
00:30:27
Speaker
we launched a DEI workshop series where um I helped out their team um you know in the context of improving and ah optimizing um any requests that they receive around DEI. So they work with a different ah bunch of different companies and I feel like you know, those companies are all really, it's and like the number one thing that they're really asking for help with is to, you know, optimize their approach to DEI. And they do that with, you know, great intentions and fantastic care. So really supporting Ada
00:31:04
Speaker
um along this journey has been um really, really great. um And so basically that looks like, as I mentioned, you know identifying different bias traps um and um having them be able to communicate that um to their different clients um and um you know helping them formulate DEI statements and and just making sure that you know there there isn't anything that we're missing um when we're really putting out a job description um or helping a client to put out a job description, that we're really taking everything into account in order to ensure that we're getting the best possible client and best possible talent. Yeah, well, that's incredible. And this is why it's so important to have companies like yours and to have companies like Oster who are open to these partnerships because that that's where we're going to make the most impact. That's kind of where we're going to make the most movement in this kind of landscape and make these changes. um it doesn't You don't need to do it by yourself. You can seek help. um You can say, hey, I'm not equipped to do this.
00:32:01
Speaker
What can you guys do to help me? How could we bridge this gap? I think that's what's going to be key in this is in this movement.
Conclusion and Contact Information
00:32:06
Speaker
Absolutely. Thank you so much for helping me promote the business that we do. Yeah, with the Impact Company, that's exactly what we do. We can support organizations when they, if in any DEI query that they have, um And um yeah, as you so rightly said, it is fantastic that um organizations or companies such as Ota are really also having a massive impact um um such as that. And they're then also bringing on um experts such as um myself and my co-founder to um you know push that needle and have an even bigger impact.
00:32:39
Speaker
Yeah, oh, amazing. Well, honestly, Yanda, thank you so much for joining me for this conversation. I've learnt so much. Where can people find you? Where can people find a bit more about the Impact Company? Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It was a really great joy speaking with you. um Yeah, you can find the Impact Company by, um you know, putting in the, looking us um up on the internet, the Impact Company.de. um I think it's important to note that we have the DE for Germany. um And yeah, we're on LinkedIn with the Impact Company. um And you can of course also find us on Instagram. um You can find me um on my LinkedIn, um as Yolanda Sylvano wrote her. um I'm happy and responsive. um And we're definitely i thrilled um for new followers, but also new requests.
00:33:29
Speaker
um And um we'd love to support um anyone who's hearing us here on this podcast um and is thinking about, you know, DEI queries. um We'd love to hear you out and support you with that. oh are oh