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Episode 3: Do you have to love your family?
91 Plays2 years ago
This week on the Rule Followers podcast, Jaimie and Sarah sip the piping hot tea that is family dynamics. Is blood thicker than water? Do we owe our families something? Can chosen family be our true family?
Find out this week by tuning in.
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Transcript
Introduction to Ayurveda and Relaxation Practices
00:00:00
Speaker
Yeah, like what tea are you having? I have a Ayurvedic tea. I get it from... What does that mean? You know what Ayurvedic medicine is? No. Okay, hold on. School me, educate me. I don't want to get it wrong, so... It's an ancient Indian medical system, also known as Ayurveda.
00:00:28
Speaker
based on ancient writings that rely on natural and holistic approach to physical and mental health. But what does it taste like? It tastes very like sweet herby, has lavender in it. It also has black licorice and some other stuff. But I kid you not, if I make myself like a pot of it and I sit and read and drink the pot, my whole body feels calm.
00:00:53
Speaker
like it it does its job like it's got some ashwagandha going on yeah something i mean i also take ashwagandha and magnesium at night to try and calm the fuck down but this adds another layer so i am not as fancy tonight i am having well-rested herbal tea from shredda jose
00:01:16
Speaker
Love that for you. It's actually really calming. Like I do find myself sleepier after I drink this. So Heath and I sometimes do what we call tea and book night where instead of watching TV, we, this is a new thing because homeboy does not read the way I do. But instead of watching TV, we will sit down with our books and a cup of tea and just enjoy like quiet time together. So that's been really nice. Cute, cute, cute. Okay. So now that we've talked to you, should we spill the tea? Doth we shall.
00:01:46
Speaker
Doth we shall.
Introduction to Rule Followers Podcast
00:01:47
Speaker
Hello, friends. Welcome to the Rule Followers podcast. My name is Jamie. And I'm Sarah. This is a podcast where we examine commonly held beliefs, life rules, self-imposed, and society imposed, and deconstruct them, re-examine them, and hopefully live a little bit more in the gray.
Family Dynamics and Relationships
00:02:09
Speaker
Today's rule is about
00:02:12
Speaker
family and what it means to be bonded or unbonded to family. Here we go!
00:02:30
Speaker
Okay, so I don't have all the fancy statistics like you were able to bring last time, but I did look up a little bit of history on family. And I mean, let's be honest, the history of family is deep and complex and we don't have time to talk about it.
00:02:51
Speaker
an hour. So I'm going to high level it here for us. That's Cliff Notes version for those of you 90s kids. Cliff notes. So basically, obviously family is very
00:03:06
Speaker
subjective by culture and religion. So a lot of people thought the Industrial Revolution kind of created the idea of nuclear family. However, historians are now suggesting that the opposite may be true and that it was the formation of the nuclear family that actually spurred the Industrial Revolution, mostly in the US and Canada.
00:03:28
Speaker
and that it was this idea of people taking care of their own and having this family unit that really helped push people into industry. Of course, nowadays, things are changing in society. We don't necessarily ascribe to the same ideals. There's a lot more talk of
00:03:46
Speaker
found families, blended families. So yeah, nuclear family looks a lot different than it used to. For my own personal history, it's a lot of being influenced by society and how I grew up. And I'm sure same as you, I kind of grew up hearing the same misused proverb, blood is thicker than water. And a lot of people took it to mean
00:04:09
Speaker
our blood, our family is more important than other relationships and that you always put family first, that sort of thing. Of course, now we know the full quote is the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb. So it's actually opposite of what we always were told it means that found families are the decided relationships that we've chosen are actually more important than those of blood. So
00:04:34
Speaker
I was going to kick us off right into it and you can say basically as much or as little as you want, but talk to me a little bit about your family dynamics. You can talk about
00:04:45
Speaker
Heath and Jojo or you can talk about how you grew up. Give me the deets. Oh man. Okay. Well, I know that my sister now listens to this podcast. Thank God my parents have not. I think my in-laws do. So I won't, don't worry family. I won't tell everyone about the family murder we've been keeping secret.
00:05:04
Speaker
I'm just kidding. That would be so dope if I had that story. I listen to my favorite murder and when people write in their hometowns and it's, oh, my cousin was a seagull killer. I'm just, what? Not that I want there to be a bad person who did things, but a little bit cool to say that you're related, you know?
00:05:21
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So I would say that I grew up in a very classic nuclear family. So mom, dad, myself and my older sister. And it's really interesting though, because I love my parents. I know that my parents love me. We do not agree on a lot of things like politics.
00:05:40
Speaker
mostly politics and what it means to look out for other people. I think my dad has this very deep-seated belief about taking care of your own. He's very, very connected to that kind of theme in his life. Very weary of others. For myself, I definitely take my family very seriously, but I also have lots of chosen families. So growing up, my parents weren't super affectionate. And not in the sense that they didn't tell me they loved me.
00:06:08
Speaker
or like that I couldn't hug them or something, but they just weren't overly there, if that makes sense. So it was a distance relationship. I know when I got older, sometimes when I would say, all right, dad, I love you. Bye. He would not say I love you back. My mom told me that when she was growing up, her dad never said I love you back to her until she was 21.
00:06:25
Speaker
So I think that there's a lot of deep seated shit for them that blend to how they raised my sister and I. So for me growing up, I definitely chose other families very often being an extrovert. I had a ton of very close friends, especially my best friend, Samantha, who is still, I call her my lady soulmate. Her family, I really felt adopted into. I was called their sixth.
00:06:45
Speaker
child. So kind, very welcoming. I went to their house every Christmas Eve. I went to Christmas Eve service. They bought me matching pajamas for their family. And I spent a lot of time there. And I remember my parents one time asked me, why are you always going over to their house? And I didn't have the heart to tell them because I feel like I'm a part of their family. So I'm definitely a person who leaned into a lot of chosen family.
00:07:07
Speaker
Growing up is the bottom line and then my sister and I weren't close until college and now she's one of my best people I adore my sister and I think that we've come to this really beautiful place in our relationship And yeah, so I know that my story is extremely different than yours.
Impact of Childhood on Adult Behavior
00:07:23
Speaker
So I think listeners better buckle up Because that was the boring answer from me. So Jamie taking a one
00:07:32
Speaker
It wasn't boring. It's just really interesting to hear about all the family dynamics of everyone and where we've all ended up. But I think the biggest thing and why I think about this a lot, I was adopted. I was adopted when I was almost four into a great family.
00:07:48
Speaker
I love them, obviously. Well, not obviously. I guess there's a lot of people that don't love their adoptive families or their families in general. I'm very close to my sister, even though she's 20 years older than me. The reason that I think about family dynamics and loyalty to blood, etc., etc., is because of my birth mom. She had sort of a mental harassment in her teens due to
00:08:15
Speaker
drugs and alcohol consumption. So she's always been very immature mentally. And for most of my life, I felt older than her when I would interact with her. The way she would talk about boyfriends or friends, it always felt like, am I speaking to someone ages younger than me is always what it felt like.
00:08:37
Speaker
I feel like everyone has met that person who feels miles away from you and you're like, wait, what? And I kept in contact with her because I felt a responsibility to her as my birth mother and as another human being to be compassionate. I felt like I'm keeping up this relationship for her. If I had my choice, no, obviously I wouldn't be going to see her periodically.
00:09:06
Speaker
I even thought this as a teen. I wouldn't take the phone call and do small talk and tell her about my life and put in the effort to talk about hers of my own free will. I'm not free will because that sounds, I wasn't forced to do it, but I was kind of forcing myself because I was, I felt it was my duty. Anyway, what do you think? Just a pause. Where do you think that that came from? I think it's just a people pleasing thing to be honest. You know, that's why we called this rule followers. They are personal.
00:09:34
Speaker
rules we've set for ourselves, maybe in our heads or in our morality. So that's honestly where I think it came from because my adoptive family definitely never made me feel like I had any responsibility to her. I couldn't voice it at that point that the only reason I'm doing any of this is not for me. I don't care about knowing her. So the story goes back to our talk during minimalism when I said I'm not sentimental. Similarly, I'm not really sentimental about people.
00:09:59
Speaker
I never felt like, oh, I want to know, you know, I know there's a lot of adopted kids that like, I want to know my roots. I want to know my mom. I want to know where I came from. I've just never felt that need. So anytime I had a relationship with her, it was for her. So I've always felt very interested about talking about family dynamics and why people feel drawn to be so loyal to people that aren't good for them. One thing that I've always found really interesting about
00:10:28
Speaker
Having gone through therapy, everything comes back to childhood trauma and the things that we went through. It could be big T, little T trauma. But what's fascinating is that our emotional connections, our emotional stability, and those bonds are actually formed within the first year or two of life. Our ability to feel emotionally safe with people and to know that that can happen. And from the sound of it, it sounds like maybe you didn't have that environment. It kind of feels like
00:10:56
Speaker
pulling on a thread, could this be a connection as to why you are not sentimental about people or about objects is because of their ability to leave, you know, and I think being exposed to that environment at such a young age, everyone's like, Oh, kids are so resilient, they're not going to remember. But the truth is, we do remember those things. And we might not have the visceral memory of this is exactly what happened.
00:11:18
Speaker
But you always remember how someone made you feel or a situation. Like there, there's a reason why we have these gut reactions to things. And having gone through therapy just so many times, I just find that connection so fascinating. I don't know if I've mentioned on this podcast already, but one of my favorite quotes is the child is father to the man. And what that means is that your, the things that happen in your childhood.
00:11:42
Speaker
breed into who you are as an adult. So your childhood you is really the origin point of so many of the characteristics of who you are as an adult. How do you feel about that? Do you feel like that could be related? Oh, yeah, I think 100%. I know that the reason I ended up getting adopted because I bounced back and forth between my birth mom and my adopted parents for the first four years. And at some point I was showing signs of detachment, which they look for in foster kids and that sort of thing.
00:12:09
Speaker
Yeah, I'm sure you're right. I'm sure that has something to do with not attaching to people or maybe even not fearing rejection in the same way as other people because I don't really fear like
00:12:21
Speaker
being rejected. And maybe it's just because I've kind of already decided like the glass half empty sort of thing. Well, I just go into every situation thinking I'll be rejected. So if it happens, I'm not really disappointed. Not to out you as a person, but you and I have the same knee jerk reaction. When there is something that is irritating to us or bothering us in a relationship, it's very easy to be like, fine, whatever, I'm done. Bye. To just slice that off and be like, great, I just got an amputation and you're gone. It's fine. I will be okay.
00:12:51
Speaker
I feel like I identify that behavior in you because I see it in myself all the time because like whenever something bad comes up, I'm just like, fine, fine. I can, whatever. I don't, I don't need anyone. I don't need anyone.
Family Boundaries and Personal Well-being
00:13:04
Speaker
And I think that that is part of my childhood as well because my mom was an alcoholic growing up and my dad was too, but he was kind of able to like stop on his own. My mom was not. She went to rehab and has been sober for like 20 years. I'm so fucking proud of her. Like she is awesome.
00:13:20
Speaker
But definitely I remember when everything happened. There was this big climactic event, which I won't divulge here on the internet when I was 13. And I remember at that point, that's kind of like when reality set in of like, oh, something really bad has been going on. And I didn't really know. I didn't really understand it. I just thought my parents had really bad tempers and that, you know,
00:13:44
Speaker
We were bad kids because we were always getting in trouble, but it turns out when your parents are alcoholics, they're going to yell at each other a lot. And when they're stressed out with working kids, like, you know, it's just, it's a recipe for badness. And I think that for me, something that happens to children or children of alcoholics is you become very independent, very fast because you don't have a safe person. And so you have to become your safe person. And I know that that has led to a lot of, for me, the lack of being able to like ask for help.
00:14:14
Speaker
uh, make connections, feel safe in my connections. Like it takes years. I definitely have great friends, but it will take me years to be like, you are my person. Like that took a long time for me. Um, just because I have that, I will detach my arm now and I will never see you again. And that is fine. Like I also have that side, which is so not healthy. I am not saying guys that you should ever have that mentality, but it exists. And so if you identify, here we are.
00:14:41
Speaker
Okay, so this actually perfect frickin lead in to a topic I wanted to talk about, which is where is the boundary? Where is the line, which I realized it's gonna be different for everyone, but where's the line? Where's the boundary where people are
00:14:55
Speaker
okay to say that's it. I'm done. I'm out. We are separated. And I'll give an example while you're thinking of yours. I came to that point with my birth mom in early 20s. I was at my senior film premiere, the one I had produced written. I'd already moved back home to Seattle, but I flew back to LA to do it. It finally was like edited and all good. We were having this big film premiere. I was getting like last minute errands done for it. And she calls me.
00:15:23
Speaker
She is in tears. I can barely understand her on the phone. She's talking about something with her boyfriend. To be fair, I do think something pretty bad had happened, like he got in an accident or something. Again, it was some guy, she'd not been dating that long, but something bad had happened. But she was putting everything on me like I was the parent, which she tended to do. And handing me so much emotional baggage and was taking not
00:15:49
Speaker
anything into account about where I was what I was doing obviously I wasn't even in the same state I was having this big night to celebrate a great achievement of mine and I I think I hung up on her to be honest I don't I don't totally remember but I think I basically said you need to call my adopted mom who
00:16:09
Speaker
I also kind of acted as a mom to her. And I said, you need to call her. And I hung up. And then I immediately called my adopted mom. I told her the situation. And I literally haven't talked to her since. So it's been probably 10 or 11 years now. She still talks to my adopted mom. My adopted mom still like sends her pictures of our family, which I'm totally fine with. I have no anger or any resentment towards her, honestly. I can say that. But that's almost it. I feel almost 100% apathetic towards her.
00:16:38
Speaker
But for me, that release being like, you know what? I have kept this relationship going for you, for my conscious life. And you've now pushed me past a boundary. You are ruining a day that is really important to me and I'm done. And I have felt at peace with that decision and better for not having her in my life.
00:17:02
Speaker
since then. So that's my example. And that's what I think a lot because I hear people say, well, this person is really shitty to me, they make me feel bad, I love them, blah, blah, blah, but they're bad to me, but they're family. And that's always the punchline, but they're blood, they're my family. So I put up with them. And I guess my question to you is, where is the line? Where's the boundary?
00:17:24
Speaker
Oh, that's a, that's a big one. Oh man, it's so interesting because like when you're talking about your own personal family, if we were not on air, I, you know a lot more than what I'm going to be saying out loud here. It's just because you know, you don't need to, I'm not a fan of people who air all of their dirty laundry.
00:17:41
Speaker
to the world, but I can give you some insight. I think that everyone's boundary, like you said, is different. I think for me, I have to fully step away when I'm at the point that there's so much anger and resentment that I can't see past that and that I'm seeing red. And so during the election period of 2016,
00:18:02
Speaker
during the four years of the Trump administration, I think a lot of people felt this in their family dynamics and maybe amongst their friends as well. There was so much that I could not believe my parents were on board with, with the Trump administration. I was just so aghast at how my parents talked about a lot of those situations. And especially for my dad, having a wife and two daughters and the way that Trump has literally been shown to be
00:18:27
Speaker
such an arrogant pompous asshole in the way that he speaks about women to women and what he's done to women's reproductive health. And I just looked at him. I'm like, dad, you know, you have three women in your life. And you think that the man who sits in the most powerful seat in the world should speak about people this way. And I just could never get the past past the fact of you can say policy is policy, but
00:18:52
Speaker
The fact that Trump is a bad man sitting in that seat, my dad would not admit to that. He would not admit that Trump was not a good person, and I think that really blew me away because that showed me how deep into his identity as a Republican he was. Because I know that if I was dating someone who treated me the way Trump treats women, there's no fucking way he would ever let me marry that person.
00:19:15
Speaker
And so I think that that really blew me away. So for me, for those four years and a little bit until 2021, even when Biden took office, I kept a very hard distance from my parents. I just couldn't handle it. And especially because my sister during that time had a daughter and then I got pregnant and I was having a daughter. And it just really, I don't know, it just really didn't sit well with me the way they talk about things and other people and circumstances and just honestly things that they don't know anything about. Since I've had a daughter,
00:19:45
Speaker
I've softened that line because I want her to know her grandparents. But I already told my husband, as soon as JoJo actually understands language, there will be a lot of boundaries set around how you talk about religion, how you talk about politics.
The Emotional Toll of Relationships
00:20:00
Speaker
And it's not that I don't want JoJo to have that experience or to be able to talk about those things that are views that are different than her parents. But I just, I don't want there to be brainwashing if that makes sense.
00:20:11
Speaker
But I've had friendships where things felt so one-sided I had a couple friends where I I love being people's cheerleaders I love making people feel good and know that feeling powered and they can go and do something and I had this friend who kept calling me during these down periods and I
00:20:28
Speaker
I realized it was taking so much energy because we would be on the phone for two hours at a time and it was just so heavy and I just kind of had to softly let the kite string go and let her float off into the distance because it just wasn't it just wasn't a relationship that was serving me at all and I felt like it was beyond one-sided it was just me constantly feeding into her
00:20:51
Speaker
And it just didn't make me feel good anymore. And I didn't like the drama. I really have a hard time with people who complain about something, and then they don't do anything about it. And then that becomes the theme of their life. I have told you a million times what to do. I've been an ear, I've been an advisor, I've been a coach, I've been a cheerleader. I can no longer do this. Mel Robbins talks about having a six month role. If someone keeps talking about something, you can make it whatever timeline you want. Longer than six months, you literally say to them, you are not allowed to talk to me about this anymore. I'm done.
00:21:20
Speaker
I mean that's a great boundary to set though. I don't know who said this but I've seen it a couple places where it said a friend is either for a reason, a season, or a lifetime. And so sometimes I think about that where it's like
00:21:35
Speaker
a successful or not successful relationship or friendship doesn't mean forever. Sometimes it's just for a season. And then like you said, it's just time to for everyone to move on. And that's just life. I think ultimately the boundary lies with is this relationship damaging your life? I think I think that's the thing is is everyone has their gauge of no, this is actually tearing me down. So that friendship I described that was taking a toll on my life because it was taking Yeah.
00:22:01
Speaker
significant energy and time and space out of my life that I just didn't have to give. Oh, I actually have kind of an example of something to do with this. Unless you can finish your thought though, if you have more. Okay. Thought ended.
00:22:17
Speaker
So I was thinking about the fact that my mom's family is all very obsessed with weight. And since you guys can't see me, I am a plus size woman. My mom is plus size. She wasn't always. She became disabled in her fifties and gained a lot of weight.
00:22:39
Speaker
her entire family, all of her sisters, she has three sisters, one of those passed away now, but she had three sisters, grown nieces, etc. You cannot, I am not joking, I'm not exaggerating, you cannot get through a conversation with them without talking about food, dieting, weight, whatever, any conversation, texting conversation.
00:23:00
Speaker
phone conversation, in person conversation. It will come up. And I have set boundaries after boundaries. I have said very explicitly, I don't want to talk about this. I don't want you to tell me you think I've lost weight. Literally the first thing you say to me every single time you see me. That's not important to me. Don't fucking tell me that. I have said this and it still happens. My mom is almost 80. She has a very bad memory.
00:23:30
Speaker
to me in a different relationship, maybe with a friend, that would be a make or break. And I would just be like, you know what, I'm gonna pull back. And if I have a very fat phobic friend, we're probably not friends anymore. I will drift from that person. But in this instance with family, it is a little bit different and I am a little bit more
00:23:52
Speaker
I don't know if forgiving is the right word, but I'm a little bit more, I see you and I'm just gonna, I'm gonna detach from what you're saying. But I think it's okay if you're, which I mean, everyone can decide what's okay for them, but I'm just saying, in my opinion, I think it's okay if that wasn't the case. If you really struggled with people being fat phobic towards you, or just your own confidence, if it really affected you, and your mom or dad or parent or whatever was constantly hammering on about it,
00:24:21
Speaker
and they wouldn't stop even with boundaries set even though it's your parent even though it's your family i think it's fucking okay to be like i'm out i'm out i completely agree i think that especially when things are that damaging i think setting healthy boundaries is definitely a later millennial gen z
00:24:39
Speaker
topic at hand. I think you're exactly right though, if something is so damaging, and is not okay, abusive, emotionally abusive, physically abusive, obviously, like any of those things, yes, you have the right to fucking walk away. Always, always change your phone number, move, whatever it is, if you have the socio economic ability to do it, get out. That's the bottom line. I don't think that you owe anything to anyone.
00:25:05
Speaker
Yeah, no matter who they are in relation to you. I think it's also important to know and just to say to people that are listening from my own experience, you are not responsible for another person's happiness, life, any emotions at all.
00:25:25
Speaker
Snaps for Jamie. Yes, yes, yes, yes. You are not responsible for what happens for someone else on their side of the fucking fence. Unless you actually murdering them, then you are responsible. But emotionally, you are not responsible for anything.
00:25:42
Speaker
Right. I have friends, family who I've heard say not say it explicitly, but they have alluded to the same thing that I felt in high school with my birth mom, which is that this relationship isn't serving me at all. In fact, it's usually hurting me, but I feel responsible to keep this person going, to support them, to
00:26:05
Speaker
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I just think that is not your job, which is hard to say because I do believe we should be like compassionate towards people and empathetic.
00:26:14
Speaker
And I do think we should be cheerleaders of people, but I think if a relationship is hurting you, somebody's constantly taking advantage of you emotionally, financially, you just don't owe them, you are not responsible for them. 100%. It's this weird fine line where I think that, you know, our catchphrase of living in the gray, I think this is an extremely gray subject. There is no hard and fast rule.
00:26:36
Speaker
You have to feel it out in every circumstance. Exactly. You have to feel it out. You have to know yourself. You have to know your about what feels okay to you. And I think as you become an adult, you learn that more because growing up, especially for women, we're taught to be quiet, polite, nice. And that's usually how a lot of women end up murdered. It's because they're just polite and nice.
00:26:59
Speaker
And they just say, okay, they're not, you know, some guy comes up to you and they're not saying, fuck off, get off me or yelling. It's because they don't want to make a scene, right? So my favorite podcast, my favorite murder, their tagline is stay sexy, don't get murdered. And then their sub one is fuck politeness. And I think that that's so true.
00:27:16
Speaker
Not in the sense of like you need to be a rude person, but if there's something's off, say something.
Emotional Minimalism and Meaningful Connections
00:27:22
Speaker
Absolutely say something. I think that in that same sense, you kind of have to flex this muscle of the fuck politeness and standing in your power. I know what's right for me and this is no longer right for me.
00:27:32
Speaker
And just being okay with that and being at peace because so often we're carrying these rocks around with us that represent the things that we feel that we owe to ourselves, to society, to others, to family members, like how you felt that you owed this relationship to your mom, this connection.
00:27:49
Speaker
And truly when you drop the rock metaphorically, it releases something in you and your soul becomes lighter in the same way minimalism does it. You physically get lighter cause you're not carrying all that stuff. This can be your emotional minimalism episode. Like how can you become emotionally minimal where you're not having to be a maximalist and having 20 best friends or you talk to every single auntie and uncle or your parents, you see them every single day, but it's just draining you.
Soul Families and Emotional Bonds
00:28:17
Speaker
Oh, do you want to know my really weird thing that I do believe in? Yeah, I do. It's pretty out there. So I hope you're ready. I don't know if I'm ready. Okay. Just go. I kind of believe in what they call soul families where it's like you've had different lives with same souls and you've played different roles in the lifetimes. Jojo feels like a newer soul to me. Maybe we've had one or two, but she feels really new.
00:28:45
Speaker
My best friend Sam feels very old to me. My parents, I know that they have lived multiple lives together. I just feel this, like, there is some weird juju happening between them that keeps them connected. And I think that my sister and I have been together for a while. And so it's just so interesting. There is literally zero science. Call me out. Tell me I'm crazy. You should also know that I'm very agnostic. I don't subscribe to any specific religion and was atheist for quite a while.
00:29:13
Speaker
But I feel like sometimes you can almost describe it as like when you walk into a room and you feel like you already know someone. There's sometimes that connection. And I believe in those things. I believe that there's can be like a gravitational pull to people. It's technically about family and emotional bonds. And I'm just saying that like when someone really fucking gets under your skin, it's probably because you've had a few millennia together.
Conclusion and Empowerment Message
00:29:33
Speaker
So I don't know. Go to a psychic, get your palm red, see what's going on. Cleanse thy aura.
00:29:39
Speaker
I'm definitely not downplaying what you're saying at all when I say this next thing, because I respect you believing what you believe. But I am an idealist and a romantic and so I often walk into a room and fall in love with someone who meets my eyes. Damn, girl. Just all the time. Just like walking in like, hey. Yeah, I just start, you know, I'm like, wow, I think you know, we could have a story. It doesn't have to be romantic, romantic, it could be
00:30:06
Speaker
anything. I just feel connected to people. Which is so funny because you're not sentimental and you don't have connections. What are you talking about, Jamie? I love store. Actually, okay. I am a paradox. Hopefully that's the right word.
00:30:20
Speaker
But I really connect to characters in books. I was talking about this one book I recently read with my bookie friends. Bookie friends, that's weird. And our mutual friend Ash, hopefully she'll listen to this and laugh, but she is very logical person. Oh, yeah. And I was telling her how I wept at the end of reading a book. And she's like, you know, I've never cried while reading a book.
00:30:48
Speaker
And she made a joke about how she was cold and logical. And I know that these characters aren't real. And I'm like, God damn it, Ashley, they are real to me. She's like, okay, sorry, sorry, sorry. The bat boys are real. You seriously are such a paradox. That, that blows my mind. That blows my mind. But I feel the same way. Cause I have characters that I deeply care about and I hate it when like, sometimes like when a book is over, I'm just like, but, but wait.
00:31:18
Speaker
But what happened? Characters also can't leave or disappoint us. So maybe it's not really a paradox. Um, do we have any, I feel like people can figure this shit out for themselves. I don't know if I have any tips other than what I already said. I would just say I would want people to feel empowered to know that you are worthy of creating the life that you want and deserve. Oh, that's a really good one. Okay. Jess King on Peloton. Sorry, Jamie.
00:31:46
Speaker
Jess King on Peloton has the best thing. She's like, when you take the trash out, do you go outside and check on it? No. Stop checking on your ex. Stop checking on the people you're cutting out your life. You don't need to. All right, folks. Thanks for listening in. And as always, you can find us
00:32:09
Speaker
and subscribe to us at any of the places you listen to podcasts. And you can follow us on Instagram at rule.followers. And we got some pretty cute shit over there. So I will say give it a follow for some fun content. Cute, cute, cute. All right, folks. Thanks for listening. Bye bye. Bye.