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Episode 9: Who's in charge of you?
66 Plays2 years ago
Are you your own authority? If someone appears to know more, should they be listened to? Is authority a tangible thing in the real world? Jaimie and Sarah discuss the perception of authority, who has it and who doesn't. For those of you Rule Breakers out there...this is a goooood one to tune into. Let the anarchy begin ;)
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello,
Introduction to the Rule Followers Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
friends. Welcome to the Rule Followers podcast. My name is Jamie. And I'm Sarah. This is a podcast where we examine commonly held beliefs, life rules, self-imposed and society-imposed and deconstruct them, re-examine them and hopefully live a little bit more in the gray. Today's
Questioning Authority's Control
00:00:17
Speaker
rule is the possibly misplaced idea or rule that authority figures are allowed agency over your life or that people have authority over you at all.
00:00:34
Speaker
So I became a little self-aware in terms of how I deal with authority only within the past year or so and it started because I was going into the coaching program we did with Manda from May & Co.
00:00:51
Speaker
And I was talking to my therapist about it and she told me, have fun and remember that although she may give you good advice or insight, she is not your authority and she's not better than you.
Therapist's Influence on Authority Perception
00:01:03
Speaker
And I don't know why, but that statement just completely shook me. I have lived my life with the idea that almost anyone is an authority to me. And that means I know.
00:01:19
Speaker
That means in my head I think I was thinking to me an authority was not just somebody that had control over me but it was somebody that's smarter than me and better than me and if they said something with enough conviction I would just assume that they were right and that I was wrong and
00:01:38
Speaker
If they told me I should do something, like I should do it. Looking back, I kind of feel it sounds like gullibility. I don't know that that's necessarily what it was. But anyway, it's caused a lot of limiting beliefs, missed opportunities, because I would just accept whatever someone told me. And then also, I think it has caused a lot of distrust in myself. And
Friends' Views and Internal Conflict on Authority
00:02:00
Speaker
when I make a decision, or if I create art, or if I like something even,
00:02:04
Speaker
I don't necessarily trust my own opinion or my own taste. So basically, with all of that said, I was hoping to hear a bit about your experience with authority figures, good or bad, and how you currently view the idea of authority.
00:02:19
Speaker
So I was gonna say it surprises me that that is your perspective that you don't trust your own opinion because I feel like you were one of my friends who I feel has very deep conviction about your opinions and your taste in things. I don't ever feel I feel like it's very hard to sway you and maybe I'm just a weak persuader but
00:02:41
Speaker
I don't know. I feel like when we talk about people, when we talk about anything, you're like, no, this is how I feel and that's it. There's just no shift in it. So I don't know. It's interesting. Maybe it's just when someone challenges you or if they're in a perceived place of authority that that triggers that in you.
00:03:02
Speaker
So
Resistance to Male Authority and Respect vs. Authority
00:03:02
Speaker
I would say I have always had a little bit of an issue with authority over me. And I think this push back against authority. Always push back against authority.
00:03:17
Speaker
But the caveat is if I respect this person, then I will be the most obedient, open minded, yes girl there ever was. So when I meet someone who I look up to or meet someone who I just have immense respect for, I never really feel the urge to push back on someone. I think some of my triggers are any male authority. I do not do well under male guidance whatsoever. Typically, typically, but I did just hire a
00:03:46
Speaker
male coach for my business. And I think what I like is that he treats me like an equal, like I never feel like he's talking down to me. But
Experts vs. Authority Figures
00:03:55
Speaker
as soon as I get a hint that a male figure is talking down to me, I immediately become a raging raccoon with rabies that I just want to scratch their eyeballs out. So that's my raging feminist.
00:04:10
Speaker
But I would say, for the most part, I think I have I think I feel enough rooted. I feel rooted enough in who I am, what I believe and what I stand for, that I have a very easy way of discerning whether I believe someone has true authority over me or if it's something where they might speak as if they have authority. But I don't take what they have to say as if they are that they hold power over me. I mean, if a police officer pulls me over.
00:04:36
Speaker
I'm not gonna argue. I don't know what's a crazy weird example. Like if I'm at the pediatrician and my pediatrician says you need to be using this product over this product with your child and I've done research or had recommendations elsewhere, then I'm gonna be I'm gonna get a second opinion. I don't
00:04:54
Speaker
take their word as law. Yeah, so it's interesting because even in the example you just gave, one of those is an actual authority, right, set down by society, which to be, right, which to be fair, that is up for debate in our society.
Societal vs. Perceived Authority
00:05:10
Speaker
But generally speaking, it's an authority we have to follow because it's the law. The other is actually, I mean, could be perceived as an authority, but it's actually more so an expert in their field.
00:05:21
Speaker
So that's one of my questions. How do we how do we separate or define expert versus an authority figure? Or do they combine at some point? Okay, so according to Merriam Webster, an expert is one with a special skill or knowledge representing mastery of a particular subject. An authority is the power to influence or command thought, opinion, or behavior.
00:05:47
Speaker
So I think in some respects, they can be interchangeable, right? So a doctor is an expert, but they also have the ability to influence your thoughts or your behaviors based off of their knowledge.
00:06:02
Speaker
a cop can literally write you a ticket and now you legally owe money for something that you did. So, um, I don't know. I think that they can maybe be, you know how a square can be a rectangle, but a rectangle can't be a square. Maybe it's something like that.
00:06:20
Speaker
Yeah. So then let's excuse societal authorities because that's a hard definition, right?
Authority Dynamics in Classrooms
00:06:26
Speaker
The thing I struggle with the most is perceived authorities. Someone like a coach or something that I've always, not always, but I struggle with is teachers. When I remember being in school and I just accepted that they, they must know exactly what they're talking about. They must be infallible, infallible and
00:06:46
Speaker
And yeah, I think akin to infallibles, they don't, they don't make mistakes, maybe is like the way I would say it. There's something I forget what the phrase is, but authority is only there because we give it power. So when you think about it, when you think about being in a classroom, the only reason that teacher has authority over you, like true authority is because you give it to them. If a classroom were to break out in a riot,
00:07:12
Speaker
that teacher no longer has control or authority over those people. So in a way, I think the societal pressures of these roles that we have deemed to be authority play into our psyche of how we interact with that authority. Because let me tell you what's having taught in the college, if I get pushed back from a student,
00:07:33
Speaker
in a way it's kind of foreign because I'm like wait I'm the teacher you should not be questioning me but I'm like wait no I'm just a person right and they have absolute permission to question me any lecture I give I'm like first of all I'm not an expert these are just the things that I know that have worked for me that I have been taught and now passing on to you etc etc
00:07:53
Speaker
And that's not to disqualify what I can teach people, but it's just to give that caveat of please don't take this as legal advice and get yourself into trouble. So I think what's interesting is that because we have societal patterns of who we give this authority to, I think that that is part of what makes society run. You give
Debating Authority's Role in Society
00:08:12
Speaker
authority to a stop sign, even if you are the only one at the intersection.
00:08:17
Speaker
Yeah, because it makes society run. If we were to give nothing authority, that's a what's that called that anarchy. Yeah, exactly. And I do think there's a difference between not letting someone be an authority to you. Like I said,
00:08:33
Speaker
but still showing respect and showing, okay, we can still have a discussion. I can still think before I speak out loud my question. I can still figure out exactly why I'm questioning something.
00:08:48
Speaker
it's so interesting because what you said at the beginning that you perceive me as someone who when I make a decision it's very firm or my beliefs are really set in stone to give a very recent example so Taylor Swift I feel still apathetic about her but
00:09:10
Speaker
Every single time somebody tells me she's a genius, it makes me question myself. Well, they have to be right. What am I? I'm done. I'm missing something. And it makes me question myself and my taste and my whatever. And that is kind of what happens with basically everything in my life.
00:09:30
Speaker
Well, first of all, I mean, the reason why you feel that way is because Taylor Swift is a genius and you should just succumb to that thought. Okay. But I think I don't think there's anything wrong with someone's opinion, giving you pause. I think that not being so hardcore or married to your own opinion is actually a strength. And so I think that being able to allow yourself that curiosity of if someone says something, you're like, Hmm,
00:09:57
Speaker
Like take it, chew on it, see if it fits for you, but if it doesn't, that doesn't mean that that person is inherently wrong or that you are. It's just not something that works for you. I think it's interesting that someone questioning you or challenging you sends you into a bit of a tizzy.
00:10:12
Speaker
Yeah, essentially that is what it does. And so I struggle with how do I get out of that basically in between zone. Because even though maybe outwardly I say one thing very definitively, I feel like I'm constantly stuck until someone gives me a better reason for the opposing side, essentially. Well, I think one thing, if you're truly looking for the root of it, can you remember the earliest time that you felt this way?
00:10:41
Speaker
Do you remember the first time you questioned your own opinion? So usually the habits that we have are based on coping mechanisms that we developed as children, right?
00:10:53
Speaker
things that happened in our childhood, we were caused us to behave a certain way. And so if you noodle on it for a few days, you might recall it and then thinking about the situation that surrounded that moment, that could be an indicator as to why you allow that authority to be questioned.
Childhood Influences on Authority Perception
00:11:08
Speaker
I think for some people what can happen is if they, okay, this horrible thing, which is watching this crime documentary, it was a cold case file.
00:11:18
Speaker
And basically this very young set of parents was getting divorced and the mom was staying at her husband's family's home because she couldn't afford to be on her own. And basically the dad, so grandpa, got pissed off enough at this woman that he murdered her and he covered it all up.
00:11:40
Speaker
And so he for decades lied to his grandchildren and to his son saying that she had run off with some guy to Maine and that's why she was gone. And so I think it was like 13 or 15 years later, the whole thing is uncovered. And it's like for those kids, that could be a very life altering moment, not just because obviously their mother had been murdered.
00:12:03
Speaker
But to realize this authority figure in your life who you trusted had actually been the exact opposite. So that I feel a big event that could definitely cause someone to question their authority or their opinions and authority over themselves very free like much more frequently because it's well.
00:12:23
Speaker
I believed this person for years and it turns out they lied. So if I can't detect that, what does that say about me? So not saying that you had a grandfather who murdered someone, but if you can pull
Manipulating Perceived Authority for Acceptance
00:12:34
Speaker
it back to maybe an early event that might give you some insight as to why you feel that way or why that feels a pattern for you.
00:12:43
Speaker
So I don't know at what point this was, I was conscious that I did this, but I still do it now. But I try not to do it in the same way that I have done it in the past. But basically for my whole life, I recognized again, I don't know that I always recognized it consciously, but I was aware that people enjoy when they feel they have power over other people. So in order to get people to like me, I would
00:13:13
Speaker
I would basically make myself purposefully weaker or less intelligent in order to make the other person feel more powerful
00:13:25
Speaker
Okay, give a concrete example, because I think this actually is a very interesting insight. So in workplace, I would even if I'm a very good problem solver, even if I could figure something out myself, I would purposely ask people how to do something or I would ask them about I would basically ask a lot of questions of other people. Well, I think that you really kind of, you know, in a way without getting to an exact moment, I think what you're getting to
00:13:56
Speaker
is correct that there was something at some point in your life you needed to make others like you in the sense of perhaps it was if you appeared inferior they would have the I need to care for Jamie therefore I will not abandon her or leave her
00:14:12
Speaker
So it could have been that. It could have been in order to feel safe that you did this so that people, you would basically manipulate people into caring for you because of that scarcity of thinking they would leave you.
Self-Doubt and Evaluating Personal Work
00:14:25
Speaker
So I think that's definitely, that's incredible insight to why that might be. And if it sounds like it's such an ingrained process for you in new relationships, and that means that's been a deep seated
00:14:38
Speaker
habit for a very long time. Yeah. So knowing how it manifests, how do I change that pattern? And let me broaden this so that we're not just theropizing me. Let me ask this question. When you look at your own work, can you definitively say, this is good, this is bad? Yeah.
00:14:58
Speaker
And what are you basing that on? Let's say you pulled up your most recent wedding and you're looking at it and you're like, oh, this is a good image. This is a bad image. Overall, I did a really good job at this wedding. What would you be basing that on? I think that comes down to so many things. First of all, composition, exposure, just a lot of clinical things. So the technical, did I nail the technical? Yeah. And I think that that's very objective to know if you nailed technical.
00:15:24
Speaker
And then in terms of when I edit photos, it's like, does this image make me feel something? Does this image, does this image remind me of a high-end photographer? Because that's what I'm working towards, right?
00:15:37
Speaker
So could I see someone like Rebecca Yale shooting this image? Yes, this matches. So it's subjective and objective in the same sense. And when I've totally missed focus or I've made someone's body not look great because of the way I pose them, I can see those things very easily because I think when you look at a hundred thousand images every year, you get really good at saying, this is a good image, this is a bad image. But I think what you're,
00:16:05
Speaker
more to the point getting to is that if you question it then how how do you know if you if you can't say that for yourself whose opinion do you trust right does that happen to you because that's the thing is i i'm not joking i literally cannot tell i cannot look at my own work and say good or bad
00:16:25
Speaker
Films from years ago, maybe technically, the quality of footage. But other than that, I cannot fucking tell you if it's good or bad. Well, do you enjoy watching the films you've made? That's such a weird question. I mean, not a weird question. Not a weird question the way that you asked or anything like that. Just a weird question because I can't answer it. I just don't know.
00:16:48
Speaker
Well, when you and I are always talking about like, if we, if, you know, in our business group chat, if someone drops a wedding video, they'll be like, Jamie, do you like this? And you'll be able to say yes or no. So it's that same thing. So when you watch your own work, yes or no, do you like it or do you not like, I feel like it's that simple, but maybe because you're so close to it, because it's yours, you can't
00:17:06
Speaker
Form that opinion yeah cuz the other thing too is if i if somebody says look at this wedding film do you like it i can easily say no because i like very few wedding films is it objectively good probably but does my opinion of it make it bad.
00:17:25
Speaker
Well, I think then if you were to judge that against your own work, maybe it is a, is it technically good? Cause you said you could answer that easily. Cause the way you see it, but then be artistically, do you like what you've done artistically? I don't know.
00:17:40
Speaker
I don't believe you because I think you could be like, yeah, I didn't like that shot I did because you wouldn't put it in the film, right? There are things that you don't put in your wedding films. Actually, I have a good example of something. So we just did a style shoot and I sent the film to you guys to review two clips that you guys said to take out were ones that I actually really loved.
Creative Work and Authority in the Industry
00:18:00
Speaker
So I think that that is another ass so actually I can remember this one time that you're gonna love this. I was working at Third Place Books and we had a guy that was just a bookseller but he also did graphic design for the store and he would always come to me first before he went to anyone else in the store. He had to learn this over time so it wasn't like he just automatically knew he came to me first.
00:18:24
Speaker
overtime he discovered he could come to me and ask which of the designs I liked best and whichever one I picked he could eliminate because nine times out of ten it was in the minority interesting so maybe you just have a really eclectic taste I mean I know I have an eclectic taste but how do I that's why I feel like I can't trust my own eye
00:18:47
Speaker
But it's also you're saying that art has to be objective. It's either good or it's bad. And we're all about the grayscale here. So I think that if the art is good to you, then it's good, right? Because someone else could be viewing your films just the way you view their films and be like, it's not good. Yeah, that's true. So I think it's fascinating that you know the exact clips that we're talking about. Because okay, just to give everyone a little bit of context. So we did this styled shoot.
00:19:16
Speaker
And I think one of the only clips that I asked to have removed was this very in-between moment. And because we weren't using a real couple, it's not like the couple was interacting, it was the more they were adjusting themselves. And for me, when I viewed it, it took them out of the characters for me. And so I think it's really fascinating that you really liked that clip, because I felt that was the one thing that broke the narrative of your film. Everything else was very, it felt the essence of the story we were trying to tell. And that one was kind of almost like breaking the fourth wall.
00:19:44
Speaker
I felt very little story that day, which I think I've already kind of talked to you about. And so when I thought of that clip, like I literally went home thinking about that clip. And the reason I thought about it was because one of the only moments in the entire day where they were real people and not models. The other clip was, to be fair, I understand what you were saying. It was the clip where you could see her clips in her dress.
00:20:06
Speaker
I think probably most people wouldn't have noticed them because they wouldn't have known to look for them but the reason I loved that shot again it was an in-between moment it wasn't a scripted moment she was just literally leaving the set and she happened to look up right as she was passing the candles and meet eye contact with the with the camera and I had done it on a very specific video beat so it was this eerie moment where she just looked up and looked at me
00:20:30
Speaker
But here's the thing is I think if we're thinking artistically with what you loved about those clips, I think if anything, to say you enjoy the work specifically for style sheets, because I know you hate them because you always say that they're not good for video. But what if you were to challenge yourself to be like, how can I prompt and guide models to feel like real people? Because I think that I mean, you think about actors who have to perform a character in a movie to make us believe that the story is actually happening, right?
00:21:00
Speaker
So how can you do that in your films with your models so that you can emulate those real moments that you truly love? Because that's what you can capture on a wedding day because it is a real couple and they are being real people and they're just experiencing their day. When we are on a styled set, we're doing something very specific. So our models truly look to us as authority on how to help deliver that.
00:21:23
Speaker
Maybe that's something that you as a videographer need to build that skill set of how do I draw this out of people on a smaller level people in our life who we feel are trying to assert authority over us. I think of
00:21:41
Speaker
or maybe not even consciously trying, but I think of a lot of educators in our industry that even though I don't think it's conscious necessarily, they're trying to be authorities on subjects or on
00:21:56
Speaker
whatever it is. I also think of family members, friends who feel like it. Again,
Educators' Use of Authority in Relationships
00:22:05
Speaker
a lot of times I don't think it is conscious, but where they are basically trying to assert some sort of control or power over another person. I think we do see it a lot with education in the wedding industry or with just personalities that feel like they can always be in a teaching moment.
00:22:25
Speaker
I think I know who you're talking about. Um, I agree. And I think that part of it can be a little, a lot of bit of ego going on. Like, Oh, I need to do this so I can be seen as an authority. But I think in education, especially with the connection with social media and having to connect those two things and using social media to build up your
00:22:50
Speaker
clout as an educator is to get views. It's the same thing that politics does. Like it's be controversial, state a hard opinion, unpopular opinion, whatever it is. And so, I mean, who's to say that those are even their real opinions, but it does create noise. Like when people are interested, people will click for it. But I think that that becomes performative authority. And so I think as a person, you need
00:23:17
Speaker
to again be rooted in who you are, what you stand for and what you value and discern for yourself. Do I agree with this person? Do I trust them enough? And that has to do with just plain old, critical thinking. Like you can't, unfortunately folks, you can't believe everything here on the internet. I don't know if you knew that. I actually did it. Just kidding.
00:23:39
Speaker
So we have a mutual friend in the industry and she can be hard to be friends with sometimes because everything is a teaching moment. And what it does is it creates this divide between you and her as though she is an authority. She knows things that you don't. She is better than you.
00:23:58
Speaker
She is, she is the teacher. She is the whatever. It's always a teaching moment. Even if you don't want that, you don't need it. You didn't ask. She's always given advice. She's always given. And it's not, it's not advice on a friend to friend, coworker to coworker. It's always this feeling of like a power dynamic.
00:24:19
Speaker
And I think there are just personalities probably that are more like that's just maybe how they are. It makes it really hard to want to enter into daily hangouts with that person. For personalities like hers that feel this automatic kind of shift into that coaching mode,
00:24:39
Speaker
I know that I had a really great friend who was able to be super honest with me and she was like, Sarah, I don't need you to be my coach right now. I just need you to listen. And I was like, Oh my God, do I do that a lot? And I do because I'm thinking, how can I help you? I love you. I care about you. That's where it comes from. So now I usually preface it. If someone tells me a situation they're going through, I'm like, do you need an ear or do you need
00:25:04
Speaker
advice like which which do you want? Yeah, because I think that you have again, that person needs to have a little bit of self reflection to be my friendships are pulling away from me. I wonder what's going on, you know, there's got to be some sort of pattern to friendships for her.
Questioning Authority for Personal Growth
00:25:18
Speaker
So I find that fascinating. And I think that, you know, I think for someone that who, you know, has a fan base, who does view her as a major authority,
00:25:28
Speaker
It kind of fuels that behavior, right? So if someone always tells you, oh my God, you're so smart, you're so brilliant, you're so this, you're so that, they can start to believe it and like kind of become it. Like some of my students are, you know, very enamored with what I've done with my career, but I'm like, dude, I'm just a normal person. There are people way beyond me doing way cooler shit. So it's like you kind of, if someone told me that every single day, it's like, yeah, you might start getting on some high horse and being like,
00:25:55
Speaker
So yeah, I thought a good end to this episode would be ways that you can basically push back on perceived authority with it being respectful. So don't take everything you're told as correct, whether it's a literal sense or moral or figurative.
00:26:13
Speaker
and then question things in your head, figure out that critical think or develop that critical thinking that you need in order to work through issues, and then figure out when it's appropriate to start questioning things out loud, either to the person that's a perceived authority or to other people to be like, hey, this person said this thing, what do we think about that?
00:26:36
Speaker
I'm looking at my work and I honestly have no idea. Can I get some insight on what it looks like or what we, yeah. I like that. I like that. It's almost the age old phrase of take everything with a grain of salt. And I think that that's so healthy. That's so healthy to do because I think you can just get yourself in a nasty tangle of web. So it's like, read the reviews, ask people, again, what does your gut say? So yeah, just being prepared, set the boundaries, listen to your gut,
00:27:03
Speaker
and realize you don't have to take everything as law. Because as we know, laws can change. Word. Word to the bird. Alrighty,
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:27:13
Speaker
guys. Well, thanks for listening to another episode of The Rule Followers. Make sure you rate and review Leave Us Five Stars. We would love you for it. And then go ahead and follow us over on Instagram at rule.followers. Thanks for joining us tonight, guys.
00:27:56
Speaker
Thanks for joining us for a little tea party.