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Episode 8: Taylor Swift; A drama queen or literary genius?
62 Plays2 years ago
It's been a long time coming.
Jaimie and Sarah dive into a tantalizing discussion about the lord and savior, queen of the land, Taylor Swift. While some deem Taylor a drama queen for the ages, others have graveled at the feet of her literary genius.
Whether you pour over her lyrics like a conspiracy theory prone Swiftie of the modern age or you do a full body eye roll every time you hear her latest track Fortnight, you are implored to join the conversation here at Rule Followers.
Enjoy, Swifties.
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Transcript
Hydration and Skincare Tips
00:00:02
Speaker
Hello darling. What are you drinking tonight? I am not drinking anything. What? Where is your hydration station? I know. I don't know. Ma'am, did you drink anything else today? Water? I had Fresca at dinner and water. Just looking out for your skincare. You know you gotta keep it hydrated. Thank you so much. I did recently introduce some Korean skincare into my routine.
First-Time Botox Experience
00:00:31
Speaker
Oh, tell me everything because I know nothing except for it's apparently like a million steps long. I don't do all the steps. I don't do all the things. I kept the, I ordered a bunch of stuff. Our friend Taylor convinced me to return some of it, but I kept the retinol. Oh, retinol is so good for you. Which I hear is a thing that we're supposed to be doing. Yep. And then the moisturizer.
00:00:59
Speaker
Sweet. I got Botox for the first time today. Congratulations. Apparently, apparently there are five Botox type products on the market, right? So the product that the guy injected into my face was not brand name Botox. It was a different brand, which is the emails that you saw pop up in my email today as my VA. Yeah.
00:01:23
Speaker
But yeah, so I like, you scrunch your face and you talk about all the things that bother you about your looks. And we did a little entry, a little entry treatment. So it wasn't super intense. And so they did my crow's feet. They did this little space, like the T-zone. We're 11s. Well, I don't have 11s, but he got that space. Yeah. And then he did my upper forehead so that this would hold.
00:01:47
Speaker
So right now it's settling into my body and it takes at least 24 hours for it to kind of start working and it peaks at like it's basically freezing of your muscles at two weeks. So it's just gonna get better and better for two weeks. It was an experience. It was an experience to be had. Fun. I'm gonna try and age gracefully. Okay, no Botox for you? Not now.
00:02:12
Speaker
Okay. But I am somehow in TikTok's algorithm of Botox and filler and stuff. My friend Em got her lips done and Lord have mercy. I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. I was watching her get it done. I was like, Apsefuckinglutelynot. I had to get a mole removed off of my lip line a couple years ago. And that was the like single most painful experience ever.
00:02:38
Speaker
I think that was almost as bad as childbirth, that initial, it felt as bad as a contraction. And you were going to say that, and I don't like that, that you said that. It was as bad as a major contraction. That is how painful it was. So it wasn't like I had to have lip surgery for 17 hours, like I had to have my baby for 17 hours, but it was intense. It was intense.
00:02:59
Speaker
The Botox was nothing. It was, I'm fine getting my blood drawn all the time. So it wasn't evil shit. Well, I'm so happy for you and your face. Thank you. I think she's happy too.
Introduction to Rule Followers Podcast
00:03:10
Speaker
Well, hello friends and welcome to the rule followers podcast. My name is Sarah. I'm Jamie. This is a podcast where we like to examine commonly held beliefs, life's rules, self-imposed and society imposed and deconstruct them, re-examine them and hopefully live a little bit more in the gray.
00:03:27
Speaker
So today's rule is not really a rule. It's more of a topic. And I feel like this could be a hot button issue. We're going to talk about my lord and savior, queen of my life, Taylor Swift. And is she a drama queen or literary genius?
00:03:46
Speaker
or somewhere in the gray, I suppose. But for those of you who have been living under a rock for the last two decades, let's get you a little caught up on the accomplishments that are Taylor
Taylor Swift's Career Achievements
00:03:56
Speaker
Swift. So Taylor Swift basically came on the scene with her self debut, our self titled debut album in 20 or
00:04:05
Speaker
In 2006, she originally started in the country genre and was nominated for Best Artist at the 50th Grammys in 2008. Her second album, Fearless, is the most awarded country album in music history. Wild. So overall, Taylor has been nominated for about 1,200 awards. She has won 740.
00:04:30
Speaker
And it is buck wild that she has continued to win more and more and more awards as her career has gone on. I think she's one of those rare people. She's now on her 11th studio album, which just dropped the Tortured Poets department. And it has already blown up all of Spotify's records for single most streams, presaves, all of that kind of stuff. She also sold more albums in a single day than Beyonce did with her debut album in the country genre that she did in a week.
00:04:58
Speaker
So it's pretty wild. I feel like this has been the era of Taylor. She also has blown every single world record when it comes to her era's tour. She was nominated for an Oscar due to the movie version of her concert coming out on Disney+. The girl just doesn't stop. If she, I wonder, does she sleep? Is she just one of those creatures that sleeps for two hours a night? I don't know. But the bottom line is I love her.
00:05:28
Speaker
She has accomplished a lot. You know what else she's accomplished. Episode over. I don't want to hear anything else. Okay. I'm just kidding. Have a great night, folks. Good to talk. That's all. Public service announcement. Taylor is an accomplished female. We love it. Goodbye.
00:05:44
Speaker
Okay. So to dive into the conversation, first of all, I want to hear your, what you're about to say. And then I want to hear your opinion on Taylor, her music, her career span and, and your thoughts.
Literary Analysis of Taylor Swift's Lyrics
00:05:56
Speaker
Uh, well, I was going to say something about her emissions, but, uh, then you can talk to every other billionaire out there as well. It is not just her in a list of billionaires. She ranks the highest.
00:06:12
Speaker
Well, to that, I actually, this is not like an argumentative approach, but truly someone who has intense stalkers who have literally let themselves into her house. How is she supposed to go about traveling in a safe capacity? I mean, I'm not saying that she doesn't have a reason for what she's doing, but it's still not good. Yeah.
00:06:36
Speaker
I mean, I get it, but I think I read an article somewhere and I would have to find it again that she does some sort of donations or something to offset her carbon footprint. So she's not a negligent asshole. Okay. Okay. All right. So moving on to your opinions, which I can already tell the tone of them is going to send me into a tizzy. So do begin. I warned you when you told me the topic that you weren't going to like it.
00:07:02
Speaker
I know, but I found it ironic because you just dragged all our friends to a Taylor Swift trivia night. So I'm like, Oh, that was not me. I did not plan that. Oh, okay. I thought you were the mastermind behind that. So hence why I thought I was, um, a little surprised by your initial reaction, but I'm actually genuinely curious. So please dive in.
00:07:24
Speaker
I will just start off by saying I have very little feeling about Taylor Swift, which is maybe why I think you'll probably be the most mad. Because at least if I had maybe a strong aversion to her, we would have something to debate. But I listened to her when she first came out. I loved Tim McGraw and all the songs.
00:07:47
Speaker
on her country album. And since then, I've still listened to her. I know a lot of the lyrics, like I'll sing along to her songs, but I would never pay to go to a concert unless I really wanted to hang out with my friends that were there. I'd be paying to hang out with my friends. And I have read through the lyrics of Folklore and Evermore and
00:08:12
Speaker
tortured poets department, mostly by request of friends that want me to love her. And while I can see why other people love her, I don't I don't see anything
00:08:24
Speaker
revolutionary in her lyrics, to be honest with you. And I think in the last three albums, especially, the songs are so full of lyrics that I feel like they kind of lose something. I don't know how to explain that.
00:08:45
Speaker
I think it's completely okay that if Taylor Swift is not your cup of tea, I don't think she has to be or is even striving to be everyone's cup of tea. I think what has always really intrigued me about her writing is that because we're similar in age, she's only two years older than me. Every time she wrote an album, it felt like it was literally hitting the exact time in my life when I needed it because
00:09:08
Speaker
she would write the album and two years later it would come out so I was listening to music that she was writing when she was my age so literally it felt like we were just in tandem for so many years and I think what I've always really loved about her writing is her ability to weave stories
00:09:24
Speaker
and personally the folklore in Evermore were such a huge divergence from her typical what was happening in 1989 and the reputation albums that like this felt like such a gorgeous departure into this folky indie type music that a lot of people didn't really have access to in the sense that they weren't
00:09:44
Speaker
actively seeking
Swift's Folky Indie Collaboration
00:09:45
Speaker
it out. And so when she paired up with Erin Desner, who is in the band called the national, he basically their collaboration was he's like, Hey, I have a bunch of music. And she's like, Hey, I'm really good at lyrics. And she called him two days into the pandemic. And I was like, Do you want to do something?
00:10:01
Speaker
because she's like I couldn't just sit around she's like I was locked in my house and I had to have a release and this is what I did and it's really cool because if you watch the the Disney plus the long pond session where they record the album live and you get to listen and watch Jack and Erin perform with her they talk about how she for the very first time had a studio set up in her house when she recorded it and she's like I know that everyone there's so many people who do this all the time
00:10:27
Speaker
but I have never not recorded in a professional studio. This is so new to me and it's so cool and it's so wild. I think because I know so much of the background story, I have so much appreciation for the music itself and the fact that this was a departure from her typical breakup albums. This was more about writing characters. I really enjoyed getting to listen to these stories that I didn't know anything about. The Last Great American Dynasty is about the woman who lived in her house in Maine and the whole history of that house and
00:10:56
Speaker
the story behind it. Other songs are just about childhood friends or she wrote a beautiful song that makes me cry called Marjorie about her grandmother.
00:11:06
Speaker
And I just think for me, it slaps. She just has this way of weaving words. I think sometimes she is guilty of having kind of the same themes throughout her music. I definitely, throughout her relationship with Jo, the color blue and the color gold have shown up a lot in her lyrics. So you'll kind of notice those things if you're an app.
00:11:27
Speaker
avid listener but yeah I feel like I've just always really enjoyed it and knowing the lyrics like when she started putting out lyric videos with the launch of each album it just makes me appreciate them even more because I am one of those people who in 1989 was like got a list of Starbucks lovers I totally was hearing that it's nice to just have the lyrics to listen to and I actually just got my copy of the vinyl which has all of the lyrics inside of it
00:11:51
Speaker
I was thinking about it because I am a lover of words so why wouldn't I connect? I was literally talking to Emily about you and she's like why doesn't Jamie like Taylor? And I was like here's the thing is I think that Jamie actually reads so much real great literature that the idea of the greats for her are so far beyond in an actual genre that you can't really touch with
00:12:17
Speaker
music, if that makes sense. So it's like from, I feel like your expectations of quote unquote literary genius are so high because of your exposure to so much literature. Well, and it feels I was thinking that it feels like her songs are almost a, it's like reading the back cover of a book. And what I want to do is read the book, but it doesn't exist. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And
00:12:43
Speaker
For other people, I think a combination of her lyrics with the music is enough to make you really feel something. And I, in general, not just Taylor Swift, but I just don't attach to music. This is a problem.
00:12:59
Speaker
Can we stay together? Are we, are we still together? I mean, I might need some time. I might need some time. Okay. So then if you're thinking about like music that you do like to listen to, what are artists that you do appreciate? Cause for me, I also think that Ben Gibbard of Death Cab for Cutie is a poet. The way he writes is just gorgeous to me. And the way he makes you think about stories is so interesting.
00:13:23
Speaker
Can I have a confession? If you tell me that you don't know who the fuck that is, we're going to hit you. Oh, no, no. I know who Ben Givert is, and I know Death God for duty. No, my confession is I don't really listen to music. So this is the point in the podcast, guys, where we realize that Jamie is a sociopath, and we have all just been living a lie. We have all just been living a lie. Okay.
00:13:47
Speaker
Let me ask this, when do you listen to music? All the damn time. So for me, obviously- Give me really concrete examples. When I'm editing, when I'm in the car, when I'm working out, when I'm walking in my neighborhood, when I'm cleaning my house.
00:14:06
Speaker
Okay, of those examples, the only time I would listen to music would maybe be cleaning my house. Maybe. The rest of the time, I'm listening to audiobooks or podcasts, and they will always be the things I go to first before music.
00:14:22
Speaker
I would agree the reason why I would choose music. So I do the same thing. Audible got my books, podcasts, I have a whole list of things that I listen to weekly. But sometimes it's just like when you're listening to a podcast, it's like my brain is like I know I have to attach to this 45 minute to hour long story or dialogue and I have to be more zoned in but music is bite sized stories.
00:14:43
Speaker
So you can kind of just let your brain get lost in it. It just becomes about the vibe that it's carrying you through. So for me, it's like a nice, I like to have access to all three because sometimes my brain just needs to zone the fuck out. And other times I'm like, I need to be riveted so that I'm not thinking about the fact that I have to drive two hours home from this wedding. I think I always want that level of disassociation. Now, what does that say about you, Jamie?
00:15:07
Speaker
Let's, let's get back to Taylor Swift. Okay. I am interested. Have you ever listened to the podcast or do you have any opinions about, uh, I think it was a podcast that was titled the cult of Taylor Swift.
Fanaticism and Marketing of Taylor Swift
00:15:19
Speaker
No, but I'm going to find that right now. You should though. I think it, um, I listened to it a long time ago.
00:15:28
Speaker
but it basically talks about the fanaticism behind her and how it is kind of dangerous. It says it's a podcast called sounds like a cult and there's two parts on Taylor Swift.
00:15:40
Speaker
Okay, here's the thing is I think that yes fandom can get out of control and I do think that Swifties can be a little bit nuts or a lot of bit nuts. But I truly don't think that it is something we haven't seen before. So think about how fanatic people were about the Beatles.
00:16:00
Speaker
Women literally fainting when these men got out of a vehicle to walk into a hotel. So I don't think it's so unique that this is the first time we've ever seen it. But I think what is so unique about Taylor and why people feel such a connection to her is because of her ability to write what feels like you're reading her diary, right? And then the fact that what's so fascinating is she lets you in just enough to where you feel like you know her. But I was talking to Emma about this the other day. I'm like, you know what?
00:16:30
Speaker
I don't know what Taylor Swift smells like. I don't know what her perfume is. I don't know what her favorite pair of socks are. Like what shows does she watch at night? I don't know what her favorite food is. Like, so it's like you have this connection where you feel like you're so emotionally attached. Like most people say, I would be Taylor Swift's best friend. And she does that in a way where she connects with her fans, but she still keeps so much private. And I think that that
00:16:56
Speaker
barrier is actually what drives people to follow her more because they are so attached to her music. Because if your music has made me feel such a big connection to you, imagine if I actually knew more about you and I think that that can drive the fanaticism. It's really good fucking marketing.
00:17:16
Speaker
It is, this woman is a fucking mastermind when it comes to marketing. I want to know what her fucking secret sauce is because it is insane. The amount of Easter eggs that this woman can plant out into the world years before things happen. I'm just like, how? How did you, how did you think about that?
00:17:37
Speaker
me ask this is there anything she could do not that would remove your swiftiness that's what I'm saying would you be able to recognize her doing something wrong yes and I have so for instance something
Should Celebrities Be Activists?
00:17:51
Speaker
I don't like that she recently has started doing is so she'll release multiple versions of her vinyls and each version of the vinyl will have an extra bonus track so if you wanted to have
00:18:02
Speaker
each of those bonus tracks you have to buy the album four separate times on vinyl and that's can be very expensive. And then she goes on Spotify and she releases all of those bonus tracks on the Spotify at 2am. So it's like if you didn't know that she was going to do that
00:18:19
Speaker
you just spent so much money on four vinyls, which now we all will have to buy a second vinyl anyway for the other 16 tracks. So part of that marketing, I don't really appreciate because fans have never spent more money on her than they did in the last year with the Aeris tour. So for that, that felt a little off. It felt a little slimy to me. I'm like, Taylor,
00:18:42
Speaker
I know she doesn't need the money and I know that's probably most likely a marketing choice from her company who chose to do that. But so I guess to answer your question is no, I don't look at her the way Trumpers look at Trump who said he could shoot someone in the middle of fifth ad and still be voted president.
00:19:01
Speaker
something which to be fair because I don't follow Taylor Swift I don't know if she has but I think at some point she was being criticized for not talking out about Palestine and the conflict going on yes and recently there's been a lot of people on TikTok
00:19:17
Speaker
Coming out about Sarah J Maas also not using her platform to talk about Palestine and you know people wanting to cancel people for that and I have been I feel like I've changed a lot in the last couple years, but My general feeling is I don't care
00:19:36
Speaker
how big your platform is, how small your platform is. I don't think you have a fucking responsibility to talk about anything. I agree unless you're literally the president of the United States because that's actually your fucking job. For people like Taylor Swift or Sarah J Moss or people who have these huge platforms, if they feel so passionately about it that they want to speak out, I think that's totally fine.
00:19:56
Speaker
However, I also think that they're allowed to just stick to what they are there to produce and what they want to do with it. Taylor Swift speaking out and saying, President Biden, you need to call for a ceasefire and stop supporting Israel. That's not actually going to change anything or do anything.
00:20:14
Speaker
That's just to appease the people who are very angry and upset, and rightfully so, about the situation that's happening. I don't think that those things actually foster change, if you know what I mean. World politics are so complicated and so interwoven that I think people
00:20:32
Speaker
loose side of how many moving parts there are when it comes to playing the game of thrones that is basically our world right now. And so I don't really appreciate it when people cancel people for not speaking about something because also it could be that maybe they just don't know enough to feel comfortable or confident saying anything. And I think that that should be respected. I don't think any single person has the responsibility of being up to date on a millennia of history between multiple countries through multiple religions.
00:21:01
Speaker
That would be crazy. People literally get their doctorates in Palestinian history. You know what I mean? Like something that I was just blows my mind when people are constantly online, like calling for other people to talk about something. Half the time they're regurgitating other people's information. So it's not like they've done research or regurgitating social media information, not even actual anything.
00:21:29
Speaker
And so for them to then call on people with platforms to talk about an issue, it's like, these people aren't educated in this. Probably a lot of them, especially people with huge platforms, don't honestly have the time to do the research to talk about this in a way that is sensitive, accurate, and is going, and because they have such a big platform, is going to be impactful. Like palatable information for other people to talk about. It's just not feasible.
00:21:59
Speaker
It's not feasible. It doesn't make any sense. And I think that Taylor has dipped her toes in the political world because she fully supported Joe Biden in 2020. I know that when she was filming Miss Americana, her documentary on Netflix, there was the senator election or the governor election, I think in Tennessee.
00:22:21
Speaker
And unfortunately, the candidate that she supported did not win, but the woman who did win was a Republican who repealed the Violence Against Women Act. And that's the act that literally protects people from stalkers. And Taylor Swift lived, has a house in Tennessee. So she would literally not be protected under Tennessee in law because of this woman. So it's like things that she is exceptionally passionate about.
00:22:46
Speaker
she will come to the forefront of like we saw with the lover album it was a huge movement towards LGBTQ rights and she did talk about that at award shows saying we have a petition and now the government needs to address it we've we've exceeded you know i think it's like a hundred thousand signatures you need and they got five hundred thousand signatures so i i don't think that taylor is by any means a bystander
00:23:08
Speaker
But I think she's very selective about attaching herself publicly to the things that she cares the most about. Because I think when she does dig in, she digs in deep. And she's also been doing so many other things that for then her to just brush up on a few hundred years of history to then make a statement that really isn't going to have an impact besides, again, appeasing people. It doesn't make sense to move on to something lighter.
Swift's Relationships and Music Influence
00:23:34
Speaker
Can we talk about all of her relationships?
00:23:36
Speaker
Yes, Green, where do you want to start? Um, I mean, to be fair, I don't know a ton, but, uh, we can start with Trevor. Trevor? That's his, wait, is that his name? Travis? What is she dating right now? Travis. Okay. I'm going to leave that in. Please do. Travis Kelsey, which I actually heard that his name is not pronounced Kelsey. It's supposed to be Kelse.
00:24:06
Speaker
Oh, well now he's forever Travis Kelsey. But people kept saying it wrong that they just let it happen. There we go. But we're here for Travis Kelsey. Okay. Okay. Um, I hate him. Why? I don't think he's attractive. I'm not attracted to him. Okay. You also have a type, but that's fine. I mean, I definitely have a type. Oh, the second thing I was going to say is he was so obnoxious at the end of the Superbowl. I thought I wanted to die.
00:24:36
Speaker
seeing him do stuff up on the stage. Maybe those are the only reasons. Okay. Well, let's start like his vibe. Okay.
00:24:45
Speaker
Okay, I agree. What he did at the Super Bowl was so cringe. I can't even watch the replay videos because I'm just like, Oh, and I know that Taylor was probably like, Oh, because honestly, she's dated a bunch of skinny British bookworms before. So the one thing I really enjoy about Travis Kelsey has been all of his openness in supporting Taylor's career and who she is and being out in the public.
00:25:09
Speaker
showing affection holding her hand things that with joe her joe allen her previous relationship we barely saw her for six fucking years because he was so set on being so private and she talks about it in interviews or maybe it's like in a song where she's like
00:25:30
Speaker
When you have to go, you have to be so secret about seeing someone so that no one knows you're there, that weighs on you. No one knew where she would be, but it's such a breath of fresh air for her to get to live her big, loud life because I feel Taylor has that personality where she's meant to be out there for people and to experience the world in a public way. And so for her to have been kept so tightly down with Joe,
00:25:57
Speaker
I think I just really appreciate Travis's not shying away from this aura of who Taylor Swift is because it's a huge thing to be a part of. And his life now comes under a microscope from the media from Swifties. And he's just kind of embracing it. I think what's nice is from his career in the NFL, which Swifties, I'm so sorry to say, Taylor actually did not put Travis Kelsey on the map. He already had a map of his own.
00:26:21
Speaker
So like him already having that exposure and that level of personality I think just gels a lot better because he's like yeah, I get it. You're famous. I'm famous here We are and I I don't know. I just find that really refreshing Okay, I just don't like him and guess what Jamie you don't have to like him
00:26:39
Speaker
Thanks. Okay, wait, who isn't the Healy, right? She dated briefly. So Matt Healy summer of 2023. He has lots of tracks in the torture poets department because he's an asshole. Yeah, I don't think he's cute either. I don't think he's cute. And literally he is super misogynistic and just an overall asshole. And everyone was kind of shocked when
00:27:00
Speaker
They got together because Taylor is such a feminist and Matt Healy has been known to say very crude things on stage, eating raw steak, saying really awful things about women. It's just not who was the seven year guy, six year guy.
00:27:16
Speaker
This is Jo Alwyn. So Jo Alwyn is a British actor. They met at the Met Gala in 2017, where her hair was bleached and his head was shaved. And that is a famous line from the Reputation album. So that was her longest relationship, right? That was her longest relationship. Was he a good guy? Like what what is his deal besides the secrecy thing?
00:27:40
Speaker
So they met during a time where Taylor's reputation was going down after the 1989 record went ultra platinum and then she had the Kim Kardashian Kanye West drama of being called a snake. So she basically went into hiding for a year and they had met and their relationship started to foster during that time.
00:28:01
Speaker
And I think it was really good because at the time she was living a very private life because she didn't want to be out in the open and we had this guy who just really wanted a small life and he just was really interested in more of those mundane things like let's go for a walk. Let's just stay home. Let's just have a normal life and from what I've read those things it sounded like it really felt good to her because when she came out
00:28:26
Speaker
with Reputation and then her lover album. There are some very beautiful tracks about their life. So one's called call it what you want. And she talks about like what happened to her in the industry, this person that basically wrapped up, you know, wrapped her up in his arms and helped her heal. And there's a lot of tracks also that have a little bit of touch of that in folklore and evermore. And so I think what ultimately happened and what I've read is that in 2020, when everyone's in lockdown, they were in lockdown together for quite a while. And I think that
00:28:57
Speaker
Um, it was said that that's kind of when they discovered how different their personalities were. And I think for a while, um, Taylor, the, the being so private started to really weigh on her. And I don't know anything else, but it just sounds ultimately, um, if you're listening to all the descriptions she has of Joe, yes, he's a very loving person, but he's also very melancholic and very blue.
00:29:18
Speaker
And so I think for a lot of the tracks that she has written about him, you get this sense that he was never really all in with her. He could never fully commit fully open fully be there with her. And Taylor's a person who just
00:29:32
Speaker
once everything. She writes about it, I want to be in the penthouse of your heart. And it just sounds like he wasn't able to do that for whatever reason. I think that part of what I didn't appreciate is it ultimately felt like he couldn't handle how big her career was. And he was so adamant about no one ever saying that his success was tied to hers whatsoever. It's almost like he would
00:29:54
Speaker
shame her for her success because it was affecting his career and I think that that's a really shitty thing to do. This is all speculation people. I know nothing. Unfortunately Taylor's stuff is not my best friend. We do not have a texting thread together. I do not have the insider scoop but if you read between the lines in her music that's kind of the vibe that I get.
00:30:14
Speaker
Okay. Who was before Joe? For Joe was Tom Hiddleston. A quick little stint. This was after she broke up with Calvin Harris. So the famous track Getaway Car is about Tom Hiddleston. So basically they had a really short, short, short, short little public affair. And basically I believe he was a rebound, which is so sad because Tom is such a nice guy. Do you know Tom personally? I do. He's so nice. So British.
00:30:43
Speaker
Calvin Harris was before him. They had a really really into British guys. Is Calvin Harris? Oh, he is British. Yeah. Oh, I thought he was American. Yeah, no, she's wild. She's deep.
00:30:57
Speaker
into the British men, but now she has a track called So Long London, so I don't think she's going back. She dated Calvin Harris for a year, and later, basically, they broke up. There was a lot of drama around music tracks and things they'd collaborated on. So that didn't work out. Before that... Does she have fake boobs? Taylor? No. Yeah. Okay. No. Not that I'm aware of. I'm just looking at a picture that kind of looked like it.
00:31:23
Speaker
No, I don't think she has fake boobies. Before that, we have Harry Styles, who basically 1989 is all about. Before Harry Styles, ooh, looks like they dated, no, Harry Styles. She dated Connor Kennedy, didn't even know that. And then before that, we have the infamous Jake Gyllenhaal. This is the guy that broke her heart. We believe took her virginity, asshole, asshole, asshole.
00:31:53
Speaker
We don't like Jake. I actually, to this day, refused to watch Jake Gyllenhaal movies. Sarah, that's so weird. Because he also plays the asshole in so many films. And I'm just like, you know what? I bet that was really easy for you. All right. Before that, we have John Mayer, which again, musically- Also an asshole, right?
00:32:16
Speaker
Also an asshole. She has a thing for them. And then before that, Taylor Lautner, who only has the single track December from Speak Now, and it just such a sweet song because she literally broke his heart and she felt really bad about it, which I think was really genuine and sweet. For that, the famous Joe Jonas, Mr. Perfectly Fine. Wait, you're saying she dated all these guys without having sex with them until Jake? Yeah, yeah. She is a Tennessean Christian woman. You will respect that.
00:32:44
Speaker
Okay, but really she was and so I don't know about this Well, they were 18 and 19. So I mean I could totally be wrong but it sounds like that's the beginning of her famous love affairs was Joe Jonas and Then hence forward who was your favorite? I mean, I really liked her and Tom Hiddleston together cuz he's just so sweet But I do like Travis right now
00:33:06
Speaker
I mean, I liked Joe in the beginning because I thought that it was really sweet that he wanted to be so private with her. I thought it was a way of protecting her. And then I think it became a way of caging her. So I don't know. We'll see how Travis does. I think something that really bothers me about him is the way he acted during the Super Bowl and aggressively pushing his coach. That anger side of him kind of scares me. And I'm also like, that's disrespectful to your coach.
00:33:30
Speaker
So yeah, I would say Travis Kelsey, we're going to see where it goes. We're going to see where it goes. Because here's the thing is I think that in a way, Taylor actually might be ready for the next chapter of life, which is getting married and having children. She's talked about it in many interviews. So in this day and age, I wouldn't say that necessarily like her biological clock is ticking because women have kids into their 40s. But I think that it's probably on her mind. And I think she she's just ready for that because a lot of her sad songs are about wanting to have a ring on her finger. And I think that
00:33:58
Speaker
Growing up, I think it's very wholesome and very sweet that that's always been a value of hers and that she really wants that. So I really, if Travis is the one for her and she's in love with him and they get married, I'm so happy for
Drama Queen or Literary Genius?
00:34:09
Speaker
her. But if it turns out to not work out, like it's obviously not my life. I can't have any hold over that. So I just want whatever Taylor feels is best for her.
00:34:17
Speaker
Amen. Amen. There were some really funny memes though when they were first dating and they were walking and Taylor's walking ahead of Travis holding his hand. And the meme says, Oh, it's so cute taking your new album out for a walk.
00:34:34
Speaker
It's just so true. But ultimately, I think the reason why I wanted to ask the question of is she a drama queen or a literary genius is because most of her work is love stories, right? And I think that unfortunately, women get the title of being a drama queen when we talk about these emotions, but men are so brave.
00:34:54
Speaker
and so vulnerable when they talk about them in their music. So I just always found that really fascinating and, you know, obviously very anti feminist of people to label her that way. But I think what I respect about her is yes, she does harness that drama to make art. And then she markets the hell out of it. And she's been extremely successful at it. So I have nothing but respect for her. I'm glad she makes you happy.
00:35:20
Speaker
Okay, well how should we summarize this evening? I think Taylor Swift is both. She is a drama queen and a literary genius turned marketing genius billionaire woman and I have nothing but respect for her because here's the other thing. It's her being a billionaire. She's a respectable billionaire because
00:35:41
Speaker
She pays her people well. She gave all of her truck drivers $100,000 tip during the tour. Whenever she goes to a city, she always makes huge donations to their food drives or their kitchens for homeless people. She does good things as she travels to cities. And I just find that so wonderful. And I just think she is one of those people who ultimately is trying to leave the world better than where she found it.
00:36:05
Speaker
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