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Episode 10: Advocacy, it's not for everyone.
42 Plays1 year ago
This week Jaimie and Sarah dive head first into what it means to be in advocate in the social media era. Are people truly making a difference or performing for likes? What has this pressure to care about everything done to the anxiety levels in society.
Follow J&S on IG @Rule.Followers
xoxo
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Transcript
Moving into a New House and Future Plans
00:00:00
Speaker
weebi bob bob Hello, how are you? I am alive. How are you? Good. um You're in a new house.
00:00:11
Speaker
I'm in a new house, y'all. Yeah, it's cute. It's very messy right now. at some point, I'll do a little a little house tour. um but right now, it's disaster. But it's those bay windows behind you. Gorgeous. Yeah.
00:00:29
Speaker
shk Yeah, we have two sets of bay windows. Oh, now you're just bragging. ah i know. One of them looks out to a gorgeous camellia bush. So I'm like ah very excited for when it blooms in the spring. And then the other one looks out onto the water and a beautiful little bridge.
00:00:50
Speaker
So, yep. Stunning, babes. Just stunning. Stunning.
Book Reading Goals and Time Management
00:00:55
Speaker
one and um Did you read Onyx Storm? I started it.
00:01:00
Speaker
I started it. So I think I'm on chapter eight. I'm so far behind. It's fine. We have Emily and I have ah big lofty goals to finish Onyx Storm and Kingdom of Ash before she leaves like April 10th.
00:01:16
Speaker
She's going to run for her. I think we can do it. But it's like she broke it out and she was like, OK, if it's like we're also slow readers. So she's like, right if it's like two page or two minutes a page, this how many pages she like literally did the math. She's like, it's an hour of reading a day. And I'm like, I can do
Hybrid Co. Conference Recap
00:01:32
Speaker
that. Like, that's doable to me. Yeah.
00:01:34
Speaker
I also balance with Audible, so there you go i think that gives me a small advantage. 100%. No, that's good. um Do you want to talk about hybrid at all in here, or do you want to skip past that?
00:01:49
Speaker
Oh, we can talk about hybrid. Okay. Tell us. All right, guys. So I just got back from an awesome conference that is purely dedicated to photographers. It's called Hybrid Co.
00:02:02
Speaker
This year it was hosted down in San Diego. And hybrid means you shoot both digital and film, hence the name. And it was awesome. So the base ticket to get in was like 549.
00:02:17
Speaker
And so if you just bought that ticket, you would get to go to all of the morning sessions where there's usually two breakout sessions. And then you have like a little mini coffee break. And then you have like a more concentrated breakout that like you can choose between like three options. So in the morning, you're with everyone for the first two. And then you get to break out into smaller groups for the third. And then you go to lunch.
00:02:37
Speaker
After that, you kind of had this like, choose your own adventure where you could decide what you wanted to do between one and three and then four and six. There were like a bunch of masterclasses hosted by some really big names in the industry.
00:02:49
Speaker
And yeah, i love the customization. The owners of the whole thing um were Carrie and Belinda and they were So kind and they had an amazing team of staff that was like willing to flip flop your classes switch your schedule if you No longer wanted this class you want to do this class like they were just making so much magic happen I think I changed my schedule like four times because like The more i got into like the business classes that were being taught, the more I was like, okay, this is the content I really, really want. I don't necessarily need this styled shoot.
00:03:25
Speaker
So and i definitely flip-flopped some things around and that was awesome. I got to listen to and meet Jose Villa, which is like... one of the all time greats of our wedding industry. He is so kind.
00:03:41
Speaker
He is hilarious. He's so humble. He and his husband were just such a joy. and they have a cute little family and they showed photos. And I think my biggest takeaway from Jose was like, this shit takes time and to shut up and do your job. He's like, don't talk about yourself.
00:03:58
Speaker
Be humble. do your job and know that it's going to take a while.
Networking and Portfolio Review
00:04:03
Speaker
And I absolutely love that because I think, you know, as as self-aware as I like to be, I know that I'm always in a rush to get to a place and I totally ah disregard the joy of the journey. So that really hit home for me.
00:04:19
Speaker
And the same thing happened when I got to meet Corbin Gerken. So for those of you who don't know Corbin, I feel like Jose Villa has kind of permeated the social media. So I think people know who he is. But Corbin, her name might not be as popular, but I can tell you whose wedding she shot. So she shot ah Joe Jonas and Sophie Turner's wedding. And then she's also shot Joe Biden's granddaughter's wedding at the White House. So that was like the most recent wedding that had happened like 17 years or something at the White House. So within our generation, this is probably the one that we would know them like recognize. But she did a talk with Ben Finch. She also did Ed Westwick, which nobody talks about.
00:04:59
Speaker
But I freaking loved those images. Chuck Bass, if those of you who have watched Gossip Girl. yeah Chuck Bass got married and Corbin shot it and it was stunning. That was like a very beautiful, like high fashion style.
00:05:15
Speaker
um So those were two of the people that I was most excited to meet. And I got to do I switched my schedule around for the last time so that I could go to Corbin's really intimate masterclass where she talked about the luxury portfolio.
00:05:29
Speaker
And really it just ended up being this very intimate talk of mostly women altogether. i think there were probably only 12 of us in the room. And there were two guys there. But we talked about everything from like, like, who's your team? What do you do to like, how do you feel as a mother, like going and doing these travel things? What was it like to be at the White House for that wedding and things were going wrong and security was so intense. And if you left a camera bag way over there, you had to wait for someone to escort you. And it wasn't like a normal wedding where you kind of have lay of the land. Yeah.
00:06:04
Speaker
And she was just so candid and honest and genuine that it just really humanized a lot of these big names. And no one had an ego. I think that was the coolest part. Absolutely no one had an ego. I networked my little ass off. like I walked up to people...
00:06:20
Speaker
i Some might say I had no business walking up to and I just inserted myself. I think the biggest thing about this conference was like, put yourself in the room and don't be afraid to take risks. Like your I went there with like, I think like eight photographers from Seattle. And I would say of us, I was probably the most extroverted person. Yeah.
00:06:41
Speaker
And I don't know what came over me, Jamie, but I could literally walk up to anyone in that room. Like, I don't care how much money you make. I didn't care like what your status was. I was just like, hi, my name is Sarah and I really want to talk to you.
00:06:53
Speaker
And that was just really fun. So every time a speaker ended, like people started gathering up their belongings. I literally threw all my shit on the ground and just walked straight to the speaker. I introduced myself. um said, you know, obviously paid an amazing compliment, asked a follow up personal question and just really tried to make a connection.
00:07:11
Speaker
and that was, i think, so invaluable because like that confidence really just launched me into like being so hyper focused on what I was learning and how can I implement this? Um,
00:07:22
Speaker
Other things that happened, I got my portfolio shredded by James of James and Schultz. They are another luxury level photographer crew. um James lives in Idaho and then Otto lives in Mexico and he's originally South African. So he has a beautiful accent. That man could literally tell me anything and i would be like, yep, uh-huh, okay. But James really went through my portfolio and I told him what my business goals were. And he was like, all right, like let's do it. And we just went image by image. And like the things that I loved, like images that I was like, yes, this he's totally going to love this one. He was like, no, get rid of it.
00:07:56
Speaker
So I think that was also really shocking. And i think I thought... what I knew was luxury level or what looked expensive, but he was able to point out like the smallest things in an image that would give it away. And I'm like, damn, i did not even think about that. So there's a lot of like fine tune editing and like choosing different images that don't show
Conference Costs and Personal Growth
00:08:22
Speaker
certain things. So it's like, I shot a pretty big wedding at Alderbrook last season and it was really beautiful. It was like,
00:08:29
Speaker
stunning but he's like yeah you know this couple is great it was probably expensive for them but like they had white shares at their ceremony you're not going to show a single image from that like white shares are the dead giveaway and i was like yeah damn it okay so it was just so funny but like every one of that wedding was in a tux right and like the groom was in a white tux i was like oh this looks like money right and he's like no no So it was just, it was fascinating to get inside the heads of other people. I literally came away with 25 pages of notes and i have a to-do list that's already three pages long. And it was just a lot of actionable items. I love that it wasn't a ton of theory. It was like, no, here's like the tactile way you're actually going to do this. And here's the exact formula. Here's a chat GPT prompt. Here's where you can find this and find that. And like...
00:09:21
Speaker
I just truly was blown away. i was so excited. And then I got to bond with the other women that we were with. We went to dinner every night. We had pool time chats. We talked about, you know, murder mystery books. We talked about our lives. We talked about our children. And I just came away like fully transformed. And like, I just feel on fire for my business and where I'm going.
00:09:45
Speaker
That's amazing. I'm so glad you decided to go. I know. And here's the thing is I almost didn't because I had a friend who went, I think one or two years ago, and she had a horrible experience because before, i guess it was owned by some other people. I think there were like four owners and now there's just two.
00:10:04
Speaker
And I guess there was like some turmoil during the ah time that she went and she just felt like it wasn't good at all. But... I was like, you know what? I'm just going to take a risk and I'm going to go like that the initial ticket wasn't that expensive. i had airline miles.
00:10:19
Speaker
And then my friend Lindsay from ah Lynn Phillips Co., she's based in Boise, used to be here in Seattle. She's hilarious and amazing. She was like, hey, I'm last minute going to go. And I was like, sweet, come room with me. And so...
00:10:32
Speaker
Split the hotel costs. So it ended up not being that expensive until I was like, who needs money? And I bought all of the masterclasses that I wanted. And I think I had really decided like if I was going to be there, I was going to be there. And so i i had a couple of friends. so ah Tanya of Tatiana Photography, she's gone...
00:10:52
Speaker
I feel like she's gone like four or five times. So she didn't buy a lot of the masterclasses. and And I feel like the more I go back, I won't need to do as many. I'll just be really selective. But I'm really, in i think it was money very
Introduction to Rule Followers Podcast
00:11:06
Speaker
well spent. And I want to do like a full blog download for Flourish Education, which is still this...
00:11:13
Speaker
little baby dream in the back of my mind, but I feel like telling people like, hey, I spent five grand at this ah conference. You want to know what I learned? And so like, obviously not sharing, you know, proprietary things that you should have to pay to be there. But like, I don't know, just like hooking people with the fact of...
00:11:31
Speaker
If you spend your money wisely in education, I think it has a huge payoff. So that was my very long-winded answer. I love it. Thank you for giving a recap. um I know we're going to have dinner and like deep dive even more into it. So I'm pumped. Oh, I will be bringing the iPad with the notes. Great.
00:11:53
Speaker
Well, should we dive into today's topic? Hello, friends. Welcome to the Rule Followers Podcast. My name is Jamie. And I'm Sarah. This is a podcast where we examine commonly held beliefs, life rules, self-imposed and society-imposed and deconstruct them, re-examine them, and hopefully live a little bit more in the gray.
00:12:16
Speaker
Today's rule is about... loud or out loud advocacy. o g And I actually brought notes to today's discussion. So I'm very excited. Um,
00:12:36
Speaker
I wanted to talk about this because I feel like the expectation to be an advocate, especially online, and especially as like liberal millennial women is very like that pressure is intense on us.
00:12:54
Speaker
Oh, yeah. so and I am not somebody who is an out loud advocate. i do my advocacy in other ways. So it has been a lot of like guilt tripping for me over the last. um When did Trump first take office to 2016? Almost 10 years.
00:13:15
Speaker
So yeah, so I want to talk about that. um And especially like in today, like obviously in today's political landscape and in social media landscape, it can feel like exponentially pressurized. So anyway, that's why I wanted to talk about this.
00:13:32
Speaker
um I thought maybe we could start about talking about where do we think this expectation comes from?
00:13:42
Speaker
Where do you think it comes from? The expectation, especially for white women to be advocates and to be very vocal, for me, I actually feel...
00:13:54
Speaker
the expectation came around in 2020 when there was kind of like that reckoning of racial stigma and like what has been happening between racial classes. And that's where it was like, if you were not stating your opinion on social media, that was kind of like the indicator that you were not very liberal in your viewpoints, right?
00:14:16
Speaker
2016, like That didn't feel like an expectation that felt like a calling to me. i was like, oh yeah, I'm not fucking putting up with this. And like I put on my pink hat and i walked in those marches and I was like, absolutely not as an old white man going to tell me what I or my daughter or my future granddaughters or my friends or my sister or my mother can do with their bodies.
00:14:42
Speaker
But I also feel like the expectation comes from a level of... performance that also already happens on social media. ah Sometimes it feels like people who continue to advocate, like if I don't know them personally, I don't know what they're doing in their lives. I probably have like three friends who are consistently like they're all about being advocates. And I know that they do the work in real life and they're just reflecting that in their social media.
00:15:10
Speaker
But a lot of other people is just like reposting stuff. And sometimes I feel like it's just trendy. And then sometimes it's also like, oh, I don't want people to think I don't think this. And then they do it. So in a way, I think it is um peer pressure.
00:15:26
Speaker
i think it is sometimes selfishly driven by performance and the need to create a persona. Yeah. or get people to still follow them for the sake of money.
00:15:39
Speaker
um And I think that other people actually truly feel called to it. Well, and I think you hit on good points with the fact that people are a like, it's a lot of fear driven performance, because it's this idea that, okay, well, if I don't post something, and everyone else is posting this, then they'll think that I am being like silently complicit in the opposite, or they'll think that You know, when um gay rights were recently being attacked in gay marriage.
00:16:15
Speaker
Oh, you mean like yesterday, the day before? Yeah, yeah, yeah. When Trump first took office and he was like, I mean, he's, you know, been doing his thing. ah But like right away and everyone was posting like in the wedding industry, at least everybody was posting like if you're ah if you're gay, then I'll do your wedding for free in the next like two months or whatever.
00:16:40
Speaker
But I think maybe this was right before Trump took office. Yeah, it was like put it Yeah, I was trying to do him before January twentieth Yeah. And it felt like if I don't post something about gay rights, like people are going to think that I don't support gay rights.
00:16:54
Speaker
That's how it felt. But it's like, I don't want to do this just because everyone is doing it. Because that is performative. And it is of fear. It's not out of like ah authenticity and like real advocacy. Yeah.
00:17:10
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think we're also like we're so plugged into the this social media arena that like if you didn't have Instagram and you were just running your business and you knew this shit was going on like maybe you would just like tell your closest family and friends like, hey, if you have someone in your life who wants to get married before January 20th, like...
00:17:32
Speaker
Let them know that I'll do it at a discount or I'll do it for free, like whatever it is. And that would feel more authentic because that would have been coming straight from you.
Advocacy Pressures and Identity Intersections
00:17:40
Speaker
You wouldn't have seen it elsewhere. so i feel like I don't think we need to feel guilty for not always jumping on these trains because not that we don't feel that way or we don't want to advocate for it, but also we don't feel the need to jump in and perform.
00:17:56
Speaker
Well, yeah. And I was thinking about um especially like the intersections of our identity. So like being millennials where we're were right. Most of us are like in our 30s and 40s now as millennials.
00:18:09
Speaker
And so we're in this like very interesting age bracket of like, to give an example, my sister is Gen X and when I was talking to her about stuff that's been happening last time, and she just had no idea. Like, it she's just not, she's not on social media.
00:18:24
Speaker
So she's not seeing stuff. And then you have Gen Z on the other end, who's like so entrenched in it. And they're kind of fighting, but they're fighting for their own rights. So as millennials, we have this very interesting position where we're like, in a position to advocate in more ways than social media, because we have more money than Gen Z. And And also we're fighting for like our children's rights and like what the future of the world will be That's one of the intersections for our identity. And then also as women, where issues are affecting us maybe more than men.
00:19:00
Speaker
And then also um in the wedding industry or like entrepreneurs or business owners, we have this identity that's coming in where it's like, I want people to know what my business stands for, especially now that like everybody is so...
00:19:14
Speaker
intent on looking at businesses and seeing like, are you backing up the morals that I believe etc, etc. So it's like, it's this very weird, like pressure cooker of like, all of the things that we are play into this feeling that like, I should be fucking doing something. What should I be doing?
00:19:33
Speaker
um A couple of talks have happened where Some forecasters are looking at what Gen Z looks like coming into the wedding world and and even just like consumerism itself and Gen Z coming into like being those people like us who have money to do things. and They don't necessarily have it now because they graduated during the pandemic and jobs suck and you know, blah, blah, blah. But um People are taking much deeper consideration into what do companies do that I give my money to, because I think we're realizing that like, even though we basically live in an oligarchy at this point and ah very few rich set of men run this country, we still have the ability to vote with the dollar.
00:20:14
Speaker
So we're not just voting on, you know, November 5th. at the ballot box, like you're voting every single day with where you spend your money. And I think that that's actually a really beautiful awakening um that we are not powerless and that we can take back that sense of autonomy by choosing where we spend money. Like if you look at Target, so Target got rid of its DEI program and they've lost billions of dollars for the last month or two months since they announced that.
00:20:44
Speaker
What's fascinating is when you have the ability, because I feel like because of where we are, we have the ability to kind of stand back for a second and really analyze things because we're not living in the trauma, right? Like none of these policies have had an immediate effect on our lives. And I think that that is something to also take into consideration when we're looking at these quote unquote executive orders that are being signed by the Cheeto that these still, like, they don't always have an immediate effect. Like, that it it's just a pretty paper that has been signed at this point.
00:21:18
Speaker
And we have amazing federal courts who are blocking a lot of this stuff. So I think what's happening is Trump is doing a lot of really shitty things in the background. And i think that a lot of this social media noise can honestly be part of the distraction. So I think that it's really important. to ah You need to look at what's actually being done and not be fooled by the like magic trick he's doing over here while he's actually pulling strings behind the curtain. um And there are a lot of great resources that will help you do that. Like i listen to the New York Times. ah The Daily does a great job as a podcast. um If you want to. to
00:22:01
Speaker
else do I think that I have? Did already say the Guardian? Jon Stewart is great if you want to watch like variety type show or a talk show. Yeah. So like you can find people who are actually like, yeah, oh, Pod Save America. They're awesome.
00:22:16
Speaker
So it's like those guys really understand the inside of politics because they used to work in the White House under the Obama administration. And so when Trump first came into office, that's when they started the Pod Save like brand.
00:22:28
Speaker
And that their company is called Crooked Media after ah Trump called Hillary Clinton Crooked for all those years. but So there are some really great resources to understand what is actually happening and and how does this affect us on the global stage.
00:22:42
Speaker
I also think that it is extremely important to remember that you as a single person cannot hold all of this. in front of you at all times.
00:22:54
Speaker
And that's something that I struggle with a lot is this like burnout and just the like emotional toll that constant advocacy or constant like intaking of all the news, all the stuff all the time. It's just is so draining.
00:23:11
Speaker
It's and extremely draining. And it leads to apathy. So it's not even like if it was a thing where like, okay, it is hard, but like I can rally for me, at least it doesn't lead to that. It leads to apathy where I'm like, I just literally don't give a shit about anything. Well, there is this really beautiful quote. And um I don't know, saw it on Instagram today. And so I don't know if I sent it to anyone, but it was powerful choirs can hold a single note for the longest duration because people have the ability to drop out and take a breath while the other continues to sing.
00:23:47
Speaker
But you never notice it. And they so and they said um radical advocacy should be the same. Right. So it's like as a united front of people who are standing up for what is right in our country and trying to protect the marginalized and protect children and protect women and protect everyone who needs it.
Sustainable Advocacy and Local Action
00:24:07
Speaker
Like we have to remember that this is a marathon and it is not a sprint. So I think the biggest thing is that people need to come up with a inability to decide for them what is within their capacity to absorb because
00:24:20
Speaker
You can't just doom scroll all day. you cannot just sit in front of the news because those media sources are literally just trying to keep your eyeballs glued to the screen and for advertising. Like, it is very hard to find non-biased news reporting anymore. Like, it's just, it's, it what is it called? Which is why it's good to, like, watch news, to watch a bunch of different news sources.
00:24:49
Speaker
But also don't like overdo it to the point that you're like always having to sit in front of the news. Yeah. And I think it's also really important, like as shitty as it sounds, I think it's also really important as a liberal person to watch Fox News and see how are they spinning this? Like what you need to if you're trying to get through to anyone in your life who is sitting in a very different pool than you right now, you need to understand what are they being told so that you have the ability to kind of translate words.
00:25:16
Speaker
like your opinion into something that they might understand because Fox News has conservatives really wrapped up in these cultural wars. And it is just mind blowing that a bunch of billionaires have convinced the least educated of our country that they are there for them.
00:25:38
Speaker
While they continue to strip away all of the safety guards and all of the programs that are set up for people who are not well off. I think it's just the biggest irony in the world. And I'm just like...
00:25:52
Speaker
I always say I'm like, have you never watched a movie? Like, do you not understand what an antagonist looks like? Like, oh, my God. The fact is, is our world, there has never, ever in all of history been equality between people ever.
00:26:10
Speaker
And what happens is you'll see this time where like the equality balances out slightly. And then suddenly it stretches and the inequality gets crazy and the people that arise at the top, they become kings, essentially, or oligarchs like we're in this situation now.
00:26:27
Speaker
But rulers, essentially, is what it is. They become dictators of... Everything that's going on in your society and your culture and they feel that their money makes them exempt from law and that they can basically do whatever the fuck they want.
00:26:48
Speaker
Yeah. It pains me because like as a single person, like i Sarah M. Thompson, cannot go out there and change what is happening. Like as a single entity, that's where the overwhelming sensation comes from because it's like you see it, you empathize with it, you understand the gravity of it, and yet you feel helpless to be able to do it. And so I think by coming up with small ways that you know you can impact and then challenging and bringing your friends in on that is a way to impact community. And so when I think going back to my point, when we're talking about like executive orders coming out, and thankfully we have federal judges who literally are the people who can do something about it.
00:27:30
Speaker
I think the biggest thing is to turn inward and to turn towards community because community is where you live right the fuck now. And those are the people that are going to impact your life immediately.
00:27:41
Speaker
So ensuring that you have friends in your area, you have a support group in your area, if you have local LGBTQ like organizations that you can volunteer at, if the veterans are you know ah so close to your heart, like go volunteer at the VA.
00:28:00
Speaker
There are so many things that you can do to help those in your community and really take a stance on what you believe it means to be a good person. And I think that action is the only way through apathy. It's like you have to take the power back and do something.
00:28:16
Speaker
i had a mentor recently tell me because we were talking about this issue and she specifically said to me, she said, not everyone is meant to be you like an out loud advocator, a crusader, like the other things you can do in action. Like you're saying, sometimes it's conversations with people in your life, like family members in your life.
00:28:41
Speaker
Sometimes it's as much as just like putting your money where, or not putting your money In places that um you want to support or don't want to support. ah It's in voting.
00:28:54
Speaker
It's in awareness and education around voting. It's in helping to educate other people. like But it doesn't have to be on social media. It doesn't have to be out loud.
00:29:05
Speaker
It can be a quiet advocacy. And for me, that has been like being told that that's OK from someone I trust has been really free.
00:29:17
Speaker
People who share the same mindset that you and I do, I think that that is very clear with just how they behave within their businesses, how they behave as a person. When you talk to them, I think it's very easy to suss out who is aligned with the way that you are thinking. And even if they're not, like for those of you who do feel called to post to social media, even if it's just resharing something that you care about, like someone in your life who might see something differently than you might be affected by the fact that you posted that or took the second to do it.
00:29:49
Speaker
But if you don't feel called to do that, and for you as maybe because you're super introverted Maybe because you're a mom with five kids and you don't have fucking time to go out into the community, but you can like have those deeper conversations with other mommies in your mommy group. Like, I think you're so right, Jamie. Like advocacy lives on so many different levels. It takes so many different forms.
00:30:12
Speaker
And, you know, if if the only way you feel comfortable advocating is by like literally doing a monthly donation, if you can, to an organization that means something to you, then do it. If you're a photographer and you can support you know a foundation by doing some free photos for them, like so they can like propel their message forward. like There's so many different ways. I think there's an access point to everyone at every level.
00:30:37
Speaker
And it's just about turning inward, reflecting like what feels comfortable for me, what feels doable for me, and then taking that action step. Yeah. Well, and it made me think of because obviously when we started this conversation, like our brains are going politically automatically because of everything that's going on.
00:30:55
Speaker
But I was just thinking about years ago when I was talking very publicly about plus size advocacy um and being fat positive.
00:31:06
Speaker
um i had decided to kind of take that online and be like vocal about it. And it didn't last very long because i would post about stuff and I would get, you know, some people would respond positively. Some people would respond negatively. And I would end up in these long arguments with people about body positivity.
00:31:28
Speaker
And it was just so it was it felt like a full time job during that time. Like it was taking the time of everything I could have been doing for my business and stuff because.
00:31:40
Speaker
people were so offended by fat bodies and they just wanted to fight with me about it. And after a while, I just realized that being online about this is is not my thing. I'm not going to be consistent about this because it's exhausting. And I just got to a point where I was like depressed all the time and anxious all the time about it.
00:32:01
Speaker
And instead... I have shifted to doing it more in my real life. Not that online isn't real life, but you know it's a different part of life.
00:32:13
Speaker
So when my mom brings up weight every single time, it i now make a comment and I'll be like, I don't want to talk about that. I don't think talking about our weight is like worth our time or conversation. you know if friends are If they say, like, do I look fat in this?
00:32:34
Speaker
I will ask them to rephrase and I'll be like, are you saying do I look bad in this? Because bad and fat are not equal. No, you don't look bad it. You know, whatever. I've, like, been part of the people reclaim the word fat. Like, I'm not afraid to be called fat. I'll call myself fat in conversations. Like, it's just a description. It's not, it doesn't, to my my head, doesn't equal bad.
00:32:57
Speaker
So like those are the things that I do now and it's just with like my personal relationships instead of online.
Engaging with Differing Political Views
00:33:04
Speaker
But I do think there are some people in my life who've been affected by my ability to kind of quietly advocate against certain things.
00:33:15
Speaker
I think that that's beautiful. And I think that that is a perfect example of realizing that like outward advocacy in a certain arena, such as Instagram was not for you, but you still continue to the to do the work in other ways. I think that that is that is the utmost importance is like, you're still doing something. Like I, I have a photographer friend in um Utah. Her name is Nicole and she,
00:33:41
Speaker
is a huge proponent of LGBTQ rights for women, for healthcare for all. And she has a huge conservative following and she will literally call them out and she'll be like, hey, you guys, Mormons who follow me, Republicans, Christians, answer um answer me this. like I really want to start a conversation and like understand where you're coming from.
00:34:06
Speaker
And sometimes she gets people to answer and sometimes she doesn't. But like I always tell her like when she has stuff like I message her and i'm like, hey, I voted for you. Like I voted for you, like i voted for your rights. I voted because you matter to me.
00:34:19
Speaker
And that always just means the most. So when people have posts like that, instead of me just reposting it, I'll usually engage with that person and be like, hey, ah completely agree.
00:34:30
Speaker
ah hate it here. This is awful. This sucks. Like, what are you doing about it? Like, you know, it's just like, it's kind of nice to just have a little bit of camaraderie. So instead of for me feeling overwhelmed by the need to incessantly repost everything,
00:34:44
Speaker
It's like, okay, how can I engage with this person? um like there are i We have wedding vendor friends who are very conservative. And I think continuing to show up in the space of love is love and that's what we choose, I think is a really good reminder to them that like...
00:35:02
Speaker
We are not the devil. Like we are good people and you know, this is what we stand for and we welcome you with it. I think the other thing is to always come at things with kindness and with love because getting mad or like, like a combative has never changed anyone's mind. Like if someone yelled at you about like eating something, is that really going to change your mind? No, it's going to make you more pissed off and like hurt you.
00:35:30
Speaker
Yeah. ah So, like, even within my own family, my entire family voted for Trump besides my husband and i and And by that, I mean, like, our immediate families. I know I have some awesome liberal aunties and uncles. and But...
00:35:47
Speaker
It's really hard when you know you're sitting there and conversations start happening around you, like how you mentioned with you and your mom talking about ah your body image. And for us, it's always about like what the government's doing and Joe Biden this and this tax and that. by by by but but And like it's just so fascinating because as soon as I pose a question, like like why do you think that is? so Like they can never fucking answer me because they're always just stuck on their 30 second clips from Fox News.
00:36:22
Speaker
And so some people hide within their identity because they don't know anything else. And so that's another thing to recognize is like that performance. Yeah. is part of identity for some people. And so to take that away from them.
00:36:35
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I was going to say part of it is just critical thinking, right? There's not what, and I think this happens on both sides. I'm not just pigeonholing one, um,
00:36:47
Speaker
um I think people that don't take the time to critically think about anything, there's there's nothing behind the smokescreen of, you're right, their initial identity as a blank, whatever that blank is.
00:37:03
Speaker
But if you if you want any sort of ground to stand on, you have to be willing to critically and curiously think about what you actually believe.
00:37:15
Speaker
and Yeah. yeah where those things come from and i think also to remember that like we always talk about like life is always somewhere in the grace it's like yeah i love barack obama i am not afraid to say that i love joe biden do i agree with everything that they did in their administration so apps of fucking lilynot there were a lot of things that bothered me and things that weren't handled well so Politically speaking, I think what's important is that you can still criticize the people that you support.
00:37:44
Speaker
like That shows critical thinking because you're not just looking at them as like an all omnipotent God who can just do whatever. You're like, I don't like that. That ist that doesn't sit well with me.
00:37:56
Speaker
Yeah, I remember, i think it was when Trump and Biden were going against each other. And my mom called Joe, like my dad said something critical about Joe Biden.
00:38:08
Speaker
And mom was trying to defend me. And she was like, Joe Biden's her hero. and I was like, he's not my hero. He's who I will vote for over Trump. But he's not my hero.
00:38:20
Speaker
Like that puts that puts someone on a pedestal that is number one. It's so unrealistic. Yeah. Like no one is a hero. We don't have heroes.
00:38:32
Speaker
There are not totality like good and bad in people in this world. Everyone is everything. Some people are more than others. Yeah. I mean, like 99.9999999% of one particular person is all bad.
00:38:48
Speaker
I mean, yeah, if you're doing the Nazi salute, you're not a good fucking person. Yeah. Okay, Elon. um Your cars deserve to be called swastikars.
00:38:59
Speaker
Oh, and yeah, so recently I was like, when I see my dad again, i think one of the questions I want to um to use to sort of open a conversation with him is, are there things, could Trump do anything bad in your eyes?
00:39:17
Speaker
Like, could there be anything that you would be like, I really did not like that, that he did that or said that or whatever? Oh, I have asked my dad that. I asked him, I was like... What did he say? Because he was like, he ah he totally thinks that the 2020 election was stolen. And I was like, Dad, if Trump came out today of his own accord and told you that he had lost...
00:39:45
Speaker
The election, fair and square. Would you believe him? And he said no. Like, that's how deep people get into it Because again, people do a brilliant job at marketing to the people that they truly want to control.
00:39:58
Speaker
And when you tell someone just the right story, that is something that they can latch on to because it speaks to a very damaged part inside of them. So... When you've triggered that, it becomes like a dog with a bone and people do not want to let go because then if I let go this part of my identity, then who am I and what am I and what is my purpose and what is my meaning and is everything gone to shit? And so a lot of people cannot wrestle with that inner turmoil. like A lot of people don't have the emotional capacity, maturity or even desire
00:40:31
Speaker
to grapple with those types of questions. And I think that some people are lost. I think some people are truly lost. and It is not worth your time to have the fight. Some people cannot admit to themselves that a part of them could be wrong or that they could be wrong. Mm-hmm.
00:40:47
Speaker
Which is, it's fascinating to me because when I was in the church, this was always curious to me about just the idea of faith. Because ultimately, most religions, when you boil everything down, you get to faith at the end of the day. Like, no matter what you think you can prove, at the end of the day, faith is it and faith hinges faith.
00:41:07
Speaker
hinges on the idea that you could be wrong, but you're choosing to trust and have faith in something that cannot be ultimately proved.
00:41:19
Speaker
And yet they live their lives like it's indisputable. who And that is the same with politics. It's the same with like anything that we hinder identities on. We're just not willing to admit that I don't fucking know everything and I could be wrong. yeah And that is so intriguing because it's so freeing when you step on the other side of that and you're like, I don't know anything.
00:41:45
Speaker
it's great. Like, I think he taught me that a lot when he was doing his dissertation because he spent three years studying a single fucking question, a single question spending years on. And wait, what was the question? I'm curious. Yeah.
00:42:01
Speaker
Oh, it was just like, can this test predict the outcomes of these students? Like, okay. Like it was a quantitative dissertation. and And for other people, they have a lot more ah philosophical type questions that they ask for their thesis. And like, I, I, when I graduated from u du there was someone there getting their doctorate who had spent 10 years researching their topic.
00:42:26
Speaker
And so I think like once you he just always would come to me and he'd be like, wow, I really like what I realized how much work I've put into this one thing. You realize how much you don't know about anything else. Neil deGrasse Tyson, that man is astonishing. He is so fucking smart and and educated and knowledgeable. And he is constantly like, we don't know anything.
00:42:50
Speaker
And I love that. I think the smartest people of our time are truly those who take the humble stance of we don't know anything. I was listening to this um other podcast where Dr. Becky was being interviewed. i don't know if you know who she is. Okay, she's a child psychologist and ah she's brilliant. You should follow her.
00:43:13
Speaker
um But one of the things she said... which has like burned in my brain, and like I have it written on a sticky note, like I love it, is choose curiosity over judgment.
00:43:25
Speaker
who yeah So in every situation, figure out a way that you can ask a question over offering ah judgment of something. So in in that situation, to give a very concrete example, she was saying when your child brings you like something they painted.
00:43:42
Speaker
It's really easy as a parent to be like, wow, you work so hard on that. That is beautiful. Are you proud of yourself? And like, none of what I just said was wrong. However, Even that is a judgment of the painting, right? It's it's like a you did good versus bad or whatever. It's an external validation.
00:44:03
Speaker
Exactly. and instead, you can look at it and you can say those things and then you can say, why did you choose to make the fire engine blue? And that opens up this conversation about what the child did and it shows them that you're like interested Similarly, she's like, you can do this with anything and anyone in your life. And i think that is ah really good place for us to start when we're having conversations with people that differ in opinions to us.
00:44:33
Speaker
And also, i think it's a good thing to do to ourselves with our own beliefs and our own stuff. And instead of being like, what I believe is right and good and...
00:44:47
Speaker
done, be curious about what your own beliefs are and ask yourself questions because that is where critical thinking starts.
Influencers' Role in Advocacy
00:44:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I was just going to say it's a perfect exercise in critical thinking because it also makes you a better listener in terms of like, instead of listening to speak, you're listening to learn.
00:45:06
Speaker
And so that ah I just love that. Choose curiosity over judgment. Beautiful. Chef's kiss. Check done. um Last thing I wanted to talk about and which we have touched on before, where do you think the pressure comes into play when it when we're talking about influencers, content creators, celebrities, people who have a huge following?
00:45:29
Speaker
Where do you think their responsibility lies in terms of this like out loud advocacy? Yeah. Oh, that's really hard because I think with great power comes great responsibility.
00:45:43
Speaker
um i think, oh, that's a hard one because I don't want to put a different expectation on them just because they have that versus like what I would give to like the everyday person.
00:45:55
Speaker
So I'm kind of torn. I feel like part of it is that, yeah, they kind of do owe it to like say something like that. like Okay, so I know like people were really harping on Taylor Swift for not speaking out politically during her Heirs tour.
00:46:11
Speaker
She had like one or two things she would post about, and she definitely endorsed Kamala Harris and stuff, but... Like, I think some people have decided that that's not the arena they want to step into. But because they have such reach and influence, like, again, going back to like this new generation of buyers and shoppers, like we really want to make sure that the people we love care about the same things that we care about. It's a connection point.
00:46:34
Speaker
So... I really want them to do it, if that makes sense. I don't think that they are obligated to, but in my heart of hearts, I desire them to lead the way, especially when they have so many precious little baby ears attached to them and they could really affect things positively. Yeah, I think I'm right there with you. I don't know that I have like a hard and fast opinion on it, though I i want people to be loud.
00:47:03
Speaker
I also say that as somebody who mostly follows and is a fan of people who believed what I believe. So it's hard for me to be like, oh, yeah, I really want Joe Rogan to keep being loud because I don't agree with him, you know?
00:47:21
Speaker
so that's hard. and Yeah. What I was going to say is I do think just like with everyday people, advocacy can look really different. So i don't know that Kendrick Lamar is going on his stories and talking about certain things, but like what he did at the Super Bowl halftime show...
00:47:42
Speaker
was insane, like was amazing. And he was very loud in his in his way, in the way that he could be. I think there are other people that put their money where their mouth is or put their money where their beliefs are.
00:47:57
Speaker
And a lot of that is like public record because of who they are. And so in that way, they are being out loud advocates without having to like appear on social media to do it.
00:48:08
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, a great example is like, Taylor really loves taking care of people. So like every single city she went to, she would, you know, donate huge quantities of money to food banks and she paid her people well and, you know, gave out lots of bonuses and everywhere she goes, like there was an interview where she talked about she loves being a good tipper. Like, that's just the thing. She's like, if I have money to give. like That's what I want to do. like I want to be known as that person who can be give generously.
00:48:39
Speaker
So again, I think there are some people who are living it out in certain ways. like Harry Styles on stage at his last concert was had the Ukrainian flag over his shoulders while he sang. I think there's definitely ways of doing what you do. Chapel Rhone at the Grammys advocated for artists owning their music, having healthcare, lovable wage, all these amazing things.
00:49:00
Speaker
So i think that I think that influencers are actually, if they're, I don't want to make this judgment, but I can't step into it curiosity. I think a lot of influencers who are in it for the altruistic reasons and aren't just there to make a buck, do that kind of advocacy in a way that is visible to those that follow them.
00:49:21
Speaker
ah That was a heavy episode, guys. um Some final little takeaways. um I think we have pretty properly dismantled the the belief that advocacy advocacy has to look one way. it can look many ways.
00:49:41
Speaker
I'd be interested to hear. Please contact us on Instagram to let us know like what you're doing. um We'd love to hear it. um And whatever way you choose to advocate for the things you believe in ah make sure that they're sustainable, true to you, and choose curiosity over judgment.
00:50:03
Speaker
Amen. Chewable is doable, guys. um I think next week we should talk about or next time we should talk about book daddies to kind of offset our ah lighten the load, lighten the load, so to speak. Oh, I will take it.
00:50:25
Speaker
So you guys can look forward to that. Alrighty, guys. so like Jimmy said, follow us over on Instagram at rule.followers and we will see you next time. Alright.
00:50:36
Speaker
Bye-bye. Bye.