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Episode 7: xoxo, are you a gossip girl?
56 Plays2 years ago
Hey there Rule Breakers, it's gossip girl here. Ha! Just kidding. But in truth, todays episode is all about how we gossip. Is it good? Bad? Does it build or break the bonds that bind us? Is it the best dirty little secret that keeps you on the edge of your seat?
Guess you'll just have to tune in to find out.
Oh, and we also make some great points about a little episode of Hidden Brain called "Creating God", you can listen to that over here.
xoxo, Rule Followers.
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Transcript
Beverages, Friendship, and Book Plans
00:00:00
Speaker
What are you drinking tonight? I'm drinking water. Lame. I know. The worst. I'm drink-
00:00:07
Speaker
I am drinking, I'm going to brag about this, I am drinking the most delicious chai tea latte that my best friend Emily made for me and I wasn't able to actually drink it at her house because my child was being psycho in a very sweet way. So she sent it home with me in a to go cup. Oh, how cute. Yeah, so I got to reheat that and it's like this delicious lavender chai tea and it's from this company called the chai box and it's like legit Indian chai tea and you make it like instead of like in a
00:00:35
Speaker
in a teabag you actually have to do it on the stove and like side with it and love that before this for dinner I had girl dinner tonight and made a microwave popcorn and hot chocolate okay but the hot chocolate so for our friend Ashley's birthday I got her or I made her this little like
00:00:57
Speaker
cozy book night care package. And a part of that I ordered this Belgian hot chocolate, but I didn't realize that the one I ordered came in like three massive bags. So I gave two to her and I kept one for myself. Hell yeah. So I've been working through that and it's delicious. We need to have like a fantasy fangirls reading night. As soon as you finish... ACOTAR. ACOTAR. Are you gonna read Throne of Glass series?
00:01:26
Speaker
Yeah. Although I heard there's not as much spice. No, but there's emotional damage and weeping. Okay. Yeah, we're gonna do like all of the Sarah mass universe. And then hoping that by the time I think we can get through Throne of Glass before the end of the year. Because I think January 1, there's a new Akatar and the new fourth wing book. Okay, so once everybody gets their shit together and finishes all these books, we need to just have a giant book party.
00:01:55
Speaker
Yes. And I need to have a whole fantasy night around Reesand. Okay. Problem is, is I've already caught up.
Sarah J Maas's Literary Journey
00:02:01
Speaker
I've been caught up for ages. I'm waiting on all of you slow folks. Ma'am, I was just introduced to this series in 2024. I am doing pretty damn good for only four months in. I've told you my humble brag, right? No. It's not really a humble brag. It's just kind of a brag. Okay. What's your brag?
00:02:21
Speaker
picked up the run of glass and I was starting to read it and I was like, man, this sounds so freaking familiar. Where have I read this before? Come to find out. I had read a extremely early draft of that book on a website called Fiction Press when I was in high school because Sarah J Maas used to write
00:02:44
Speaker
on fiction press and put her books on there 15 years ago. I only found that out because I was like why do I know this and I went to her acknowledgments and she actually like thanked her early fiction press readers and I was like holy shit this is why I know this book.
00:03:00
Speaker
That's wild to be exposed to that. That's crazy. Because yeah, that's when she started writing that book was when she was in her teens. Yeah. Insane. My sister said the one thing because she's already like halfway through the series because my sister is like an animal when it comes to books. She can just devour them. Yeah. But she said that she's noticed how Sarah's writing has gotten so much better throughout the series. And so she's like, this will be really interesting because I'm sure the last few books will be like so, so good. And I told her that our
00:03:28
Speaker
So my Sam, she loved Crescent City series the most out of all three universes. And I think it's because it's the most in depth to her. She really liked the politics and stuff. So I was like, maybe you like that one the best. I don't know. I'll fight Sam on that. Which one is your favorite? Throne of Glass series. Okay. The first two books are bad. Like you just you have to get through them. Okay.
00:03:50
Speaker
But once you get through them, like your sister said, the writing picks up a lot. And yeah, just frickin brilliant. I honestly don't understand people that like Crescent City if I'm being honest with you. That's what I heard. There's like so many funny memes where it's like going to that's like, have you can't have you ever thought that maybe you that one time maybe? Yeah.
00:04:13
Speaker
I just can't stand the two main characters at all. Like, I think they're just so annoying. All right, we digress.
Introduction to Rule Followers Podcast
00:04:22
Speaker
This is not a book podcast. So sorry, guys. Sorry, not sorry. Sorry, never sorry. All right, let's get going. Hello, friends. Welcome to the Rule Followers podcast. My name is Jamie.
00:04:37
Speaker
and I'm Sarah. This is a podcast where we examine commonly held beliefs, life rules, self-imposed and society imposed and deconstruct them, re-examine them and hopefully live a little bit more in the gray. Today's rule is about gossip and is it good? Is it bad? Where's the gray? We're going to talk about it. It's going to be fun. I for one am a huge gossiper.
The Nature and Role of Gossip
00:05:09
Speaker
It's so funny because you know the phrase, the like famous quote, small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events and complex minds talk about ideas. I would like to say that I do feel like I'm smart, but I still really freaking love to talk about people.
00:05:30
Speaker
Well, I think that people are so complicated, so that's what makes them kind of juicy to dive into. I want to hear, well, you can start or I can start, but I want to hear if you have any standout stories where gossip was either the villain or the hero or whatever. I want to hear any gossip stories you have.
00:05:52
Speaker
Oh my gosh, where is there not gossip in life? I think that, oh, gossip is so ingrained in everything in our society. And I know that my mom and my grandmother, my Nana, who's passed on, huge gossip, busy bodies. Like they knew everything about everything. And I think in my family, like to kind of get attention
00:06:15
Speaker
you would always want to have a juicy piece of gossip because then people would give their attention to you because we had a big extended family. Not that like everyone's died, we just all don't get together anymore. I want to hear yours first because I feel like I have some, I know I have some really juicy ones, but I think I need to noodle on it while I listen to your stories because like I have ones all the way from like super petty to ones that completely ruined a career. So yeah. Damn. Okay. So mine is a little bit tied up with the church, which
00:06:43
Speaker
To me, I can't think about, I can't talk about gossip without thinking of the church because having grown up in it, you're basically taught that gossip is like capital letters sin. You're not allowed to gossip. You're not allowed to talk about other people. And they don't often, at least in my church, in my Christian school that I went to,
00:07:04
Speaker
They didn't really differentiate between slander and gossip, which to me, in my own morality, those are really different things. And definition-wise, they are very different. Like slander is talking about someone in a defacing way that is untrue.
00:07:20
Speaker
and gossip is like low-key right it's not low-key rehashing stating opinions right exactly so when I tell my story I have to preface it with it's all tied up in the church so there was a girl I'm not gonna name her name actually but there was a girl in my Christian school who
00:07:42
Speaker
I went back and forth between being her best friend and truly I we would both have considered each other best friends. We knew we knew each other inside and out. So we would go between that and then her like hardcore bullying me in a class of 12 people because that was that was how big our class was.
00:07:59
Speaker
If I sat next to her when she was mad at me, she would literally pick up her desk and like scoot it away. She would walk up when I had my locker open like slam it closed. If I walked up to a group of girls that she was like in and talking with, she would literally step in front of me. Whoa, that is some mean girl shit.
00:08:19
Speaker
it was bad and the teachers did nothing except for one teacher one time would take me as she took me aside and she said hey I noticed that this girl is doing these bullying things to you and like occasionally do you want me to intervene and I was like I'm just used to it by now so but I was in eighth grade like I feel like the teacher should have
00:08:40
Speaker
You know, why did I just done it? Exactly. No teenagers can be like, yes, defend me in the middle of our 12 person class. Right. It would have been better if someone saw her slam my locker clothes and said, hey, inappropriate behavior. Hey, knock that shit off. Like we don't do that to other people. If you have an issue, you can talk it out.
00:09:00
Speaker
So I preface this story with that because me and two other girls who are good friends were in a hallway at school and I was basically just telling them about my issues with her. And our teacher, one of our teachers,
00:09:16
Speaker
was apparently sitting around the corner listening to our conversation until it got bad enough that she popped around and she said, I think I hear you girls gossiping and that is not okay. And she took us to the principal's office. So instead of this other girl getting punished or talked to or whatever about bullying, inappropriate behavior, the three of us,
00:09:38
Speaker
got in trouble for gossiping, got taken to the principal's office, got a moralistic rant shoved down our throats about how we can't talk about other people. So yeah, I would love to talk about, which I want to hear some of your stories, but I would love to talk about gossip in relation to the church and then also gossip in related to women and how throughout all of history, gossip has been a function between women to keep women
00:10:05
Speaker
Safe to alert other people in the community about like shit that's going on and how it has always been turned into this like oh Well, it's like this caddy thing that women do because it is a women's quote-unquote activity It gets it gets this like bad rap
00:10:24
Speaker
Okay, so my juicy gossip story. Okay, so there are like silly ones and there are some deep ones. So one of the silly ones is that when I was auditioning for my high school dance team, I had been a captain of my middle school dance team.
00:10:45
Speaker
And the high school team was or is state champions, super talented team. Like it was a big deal to make it on this squad. So I remember walking into tryouts and I was so nervous and I was so scared. And this was the first time that like I did something where I was like, if I don't make it, I don't know what I'm going to do. Like I wanted it so, so badly. I worked
00:11:07
Speaker
really hard and all this kind of stuff. Apparently someone behind my back went to the officers of the team. So these are like juniors and seniors who run the team. And they said that I was shit talking the audition routine and that it was super easy and that I was going to make it and that I would be a captain one day. And then I was saying all this stuff literally never uttered a single word of that.
00:11:32
Speaker
I don't even know who said that, where it came from. But I was just like, I forget how I had found that out. But someone had told me that that was said. And then I learned this like halfway through the fucking year, because the officers had been so mean to me. And I was like, what did I do? So I'm like, little Sarah, like, hi, I'm just trying to be gonna be on this team.
00:11:55
Speaker
And there was literally one officer who was actually kind to me, and that was it. And the other ones hated me. And especially this one girl named Melanie. I think she just hated everyone. And I hate to say this, but I was one of the best dancers in our class. And so I was making all of the advanced routines. I was in all the competition routines, which you had to audition for every single season.
00:12:19
Speaker
And so it was almost like that made them hate me more. And like I was never able to really clear up that situation with those people. The more I hear about dance, the less I ever want my child to be in dance. I know it can be a really hard culture. I think it's gotten a lot better because we have this feminist movement and like women's empowerment and being like teammates and not competition. I think that when I was in dance, a lot of it was like being
00:12:49
Speaker
competition with each other.
Personal Experiences with Gossip
00:12:51
Speaker
It wasn't about the camaraderie. I would say Shadowlands was, but when you put 55 teenage girls in one fucking gym two nights a week, shit's going to go down. Talking about hormones and all this crazy stuff, it's wild. I think I'm going to have to tell you the career ruining thing off mic because if I even utter what this story is, there are people in my life who know who I'm talking about and I just can't
00:13:19
Speaker
I can't even say the story without someone knowing. But the bottom line is, I think, I think the thing that happens about gossip is like, first of all, it can be completely untrue, like in the case of my silly dance team story. But I think when it gets really scary, like when we're starting to talk about like affairs or embezzlement, or things like that, like that is some dark
00:13:40
Speaker
shit that if it is untrue can really ruin lives and if it is true can really ruin lives I don't think there's any like good way around it But what I find really interesting is no matter what it is if the gossip is true I think there's always like karma is my boyfriend like it's always gonna come out I think it's really hard for people to keep things secret. So I think that gossip gossip can actually serve
00:14:08
Speaker
and protect, like you said, and it can also destroy and ruin. In the sense of what I'm talking about, there had always been rumors about some particular people. And one day I found evidence that it was true. And I never told the people who were involved.
00:14:25
Speaker
And I'm keeping it that ambiguous because that is literally all I can say. And had it been revealed, it would ruin lives. Let me say this because when I think of gossip, if I would not consider something gossip if it was untrue about someone. Yeah, that's like your like your yeah, like your thing with the dance team like that is straight up.
00:14:44
Speaker
That's like malicious intent. Exactly. Exactly. I have an issue. I am the worst secret keeper. What do you feel like drives you to tell someone? Like you just need someone to talk to about it? Oh, I fucking love the drama.
00:14:58
Speaker
Oh God, Jamie. Hilarious. Actually, that's not true because I've benefited from this. I love seeing people's reactions with stuff. I'm an Aries, right? So I just kind of think I love to light the fire and walk away a little bit.
00:15:17
Speaker
But the other side of that coin is that for the most part, I'm an open book, which I think is part of the issue. In my head, it is almost inconceivable that people wouldn't want people to know stuff. There's very few things I've told people about myself that I'm like, please don't say anything. Just so few things. So I think that's why I'm not good at keeping secrets because I'm like, like, what's the alarm?
00:15:45
Speaker
I think I'm a lot like you and I feel like an open book. I tell people you can ask me anything. I will tell you my life trauma story if I met you at a coffee shop. I really don't have an issue with it because I don't hold anything. I don't hold most things so sacred in that sense because I think that they're part of what makes me me. If you want to talk to me and get to know me, that's part of the package and what comes through.
00:16:11
Speaker
have witnessed you witness me react to gossip you've told me. And like, it's pretty funny. I'm like, what?
00:16:20
Speaker
And I think it can be fun. So I think there, unfortunately, yes, there is a fun side to gossiping, but here's the one thing that I always think about because for the longest time, I never thought it would happen. But whenever I'm gossiping with someone about someone, cause I'll admit I have gossiped. It's a thing. I'm trying to be, I have actually literally trying not to do it, but when I do, I had this epiphany probably in my early twenties where I was like, but what do they gossip about me to other people? Who cares?
00:16:50
Speaker
Well, for me, it was a fucking light bulb. So I was like, wait, people would gossip about me. Great. What do you mean? Keep me at the front of your minds, bitches. God, I love you. But yeah, so so when I'm like bitching about things like, OK, so Taylor, lover to death, she loves to shit on people in the industry just like we do. You know, everyone needs everyone has like a venting system.
00:17:13
Speaker
or like venting session, I should say. And I remember I think all of us were hanging out one day and I'm like, Taylor, do you talk shit about me? And she's like, yeah. And I'm like, what do you talk shit about me for? And she goes, just like a few things. Like it's only bad. Like I still love you. And I'm like, why don't you just tell me what's wrong? She goes, I'm like, what is wrong? What is wrong?
00:17:35
Speaker
Which is so funny because like, I don't know, like I just wouldn't think that she would do that. But apparently she does. And I think it's really funny. I mean, if there was something truly wrong, I know she would come talk to me. Yeah, it's so funny because she says that she says like, Oh, yeah, I talked shit about it. She will say she talked shit about everyone.
00:17:53
Speaker
And then the other day, I was saying something how fun it is to talk shit about people. And she was like, well, you don't talk shit about me, right? And I was like, literally, you are the one that says everyone talks shit about everyone. This is one of my favorite phrases to say, I think I already said it to you. But it's like, is it is whatever I'm saying really a big issue? Or do I just love the drama of talking about it? So when I say like, I'm talking shit about someone 99
00:18:20
Speaker
Percent of the time it's not that big of a deal. I say quote-unquote talking shit about someone. It's casual It's not life death. Yeah, I should see my hands flying all over the air It's not that big of a deal and I just like I'm loving the drama of the moment of like talking about it And that's what I mean, like I'm assuming that's what Taylor means when she's like, yeah, I talk shit about you Yeah, and I think it's just like she
00:18:45
Speaker
She grieves her little pet peeves, you know, about all of us, about all of us. Like I'm sure, like I've literally listened to her tell me things about Jordan, Ashley, you, Cam, name the human, Wes, like all of us. And it's totally fine. Cause I think, I think, yeah, I think if you know a person long enough, you're friends with them. Like we all have our little isms that drive other people crazy.
00:19:08
Speaker
And I know for a fact that herism with me is that I take on too much and then I can't complete things to my full potential. And that drives her up the goddamn wall and down the other side. She also hates when I'm behind on my editing because she wants me to outsource immediately and has told me multiple times, even when I have AI. And she's like, Sarah, you need to hire an editor. And I'm like, Taylor, I don't want to spend the money. And she's like, yeah, but like, what if you could have this all done for you and then you could go make more money and like, it's all paid for. And I'm like, yeah.
00:19:39
Speaker
So you already know the things she says. So she has talked to you about them. Yeah, because I think eventually it builds up enough to where you both will tell me in our little biz besties chat. And I can tell when you both have already had the conversation and then you've brought it to me. You guys both have some tells when it comes to that situation, but I know that you just love me and you're just trying to make me a better person. It's never like a calculated attack if that helps.
00:20:09
Speaker
never like an airstrike where you're like, I'm going to flank the left, you're going to flank the right. Right. It's not that situation. Lol. But I think one thing that I, when it comes to like the topic of gossip, I really do not like gossip that A, you can already sense is not based in truth. So like my family loves to gossip about the family. Like they just love
00:20:33
Speaker
to like be like, Oh, well, this is happening with your cousin or this is happening with your aunt. And it's just, it's always seeped in so much judgment and comparison. I no longer enjoy participating in any of those conversations because I'm just like, it doesn't matter. It literally doesn't matter. They're just living their lives. They're doing their own thing. And you know what? Maybe that small accomplishment that they got in comparison to this one I got, maybe that does feel the same to them. Like leave them alone. Like I really, I've adopted the whole Mel
Judgment and Living Freely
00:21:01
Speaker
Robbins has a really great
00:21:03
Speaker
podcast episode about the let them theory words like let them be let them do what they're gonna do just let them like why does it bother you that much she's actually i think writing a book on it which i'll totally listen to you and or read and i feel like that
00:21:18
Speaker
Just that phrase of let them has really helped me in so much of my like contention around people a who gossip or be you're doing things in their lives that I don't agree with because you can't change anyone and like that's That is part of the gossip is like when you're trying to gossip about and then you're like, oh, well I would have done this or she should have done that that it's because you're trying to in a way control them and
00:21:39
Speaker
And you can't do that. You literally cannot do that. So there's no point in gossiping about it. The drama can be fun, yes, but when it starts to turn into like putting people down, like that's where I'm like, mmm, unsubscribe. This doesn't feel good to me. Well, and maybe the important part of gossip is doing it in a safe space. Yeah, which is kind of a buzzword these days. But just the idea that you know, I'm talking about something either.
00:22:08
Speaker
to someone so removed from a situation that it doesn't even matter if they talk about it because the circle is so far removed or
00:22:17
Speaker
you're talking about it in a space where you know, if I tell Taylor something, yeah, the likelihood of it getting to all of our friends is high, but even within that circle, it's still relatively safe. So in that sense, depending on where you are, like ensuring that the people you're talking to know, you know that they are a trusted person. Cause I think you can accidentally tell someone a lot of things that you shouldn't.
00:22:43
Speaker
the situation you said earlier if you can
Moral Implications of Gossip
00:22:45
Speaker
say anything more on it you said you chose not to say anything once you had learned information even though it was true information because it would have ruined so i guess my question is where is our responsibility if we learn things that's a huge question because
00:23:00
Speaker
I think that there's the phrase of not my circus not my monkeys or not my monkeys not my circus goes one way or the other and I think that I think as I've gotten older I do subscribe more to that thought process unless it's putting someone's life in danger because I do believe that secrets like this will get out eventually it doesn't necessarily need to be me who does it because I think that can also put you in a bad position whether it has to do with people in your career field or that has to do with family whether that has to do with close friends
00:23:30
Speaker
you have to decide as a person, are you ready to accept responsibility for the fallout that happens after this? And for me, I wanted to burn it down. I wanted to tell everyone because it went so deeply against my morals. But I'm really glad in this part of my life that I didn't because I would not have wanted that to weigh on my shoulders all of these years. So yeah, ultimately, I think it, I don't know if it ever did come out.
00:24:00
Speaker
So let me ask this. If one of your best friends came to you and said, I have cheated. Ooh. Ooh. I think if it was like my girlfriends came to me and said that, I think it's kind of like what are, when we asked like, who would you help bury a dead, like who would help you bury a dead body? Um, in that sense,
00:24:23
Speaker
I think I would need to know more information like do you plan on being with this person? Was this a crazy one night stand? Like what are the circumstances around it? Because while I personally believe honesty is the best policy, I also can kind of see the argument of if you just had a stupid night and you're never going to do it again and you regret it, who does it help?
00:24:45
Speaker
to put that information onto them because it's like if if you tell that to your partner and you are just doing it to air out your guilty heart so that you feel better like you've just destroyed them and now you're expecting them to get on the same page as you to be like oh no no it's fine it's fine sign
00:25:03
Speaker
So in a sense, I think that it truly depends on intent. If that person is then telling me that they want to leave their spouse, then that's where I'm like, okay, let's make a plan. And technically, maybe let's not tell them because on divorce papers, you don't really want infidelity to be the reason irreconcilable differences will get you more in the court system.
00:25:24
Speaker
Yeah, I think I would need to know more and I think because like I'm so close with most of my close friends husbands like at least Emily and Austin like Emily and Austin, Sam and Devin. I'm close with Devin and Austin. So I think that would be really hard for me to know that and to not tell them but
00:25:42
Speaker
Would you need to tell Heath? Okay, you'd need to tell somebody, right? Yeah, I would need to tell someone because I would be like, and mostly I would ask my husband because my husband, A, is very good at keeping secrets, like brilliant at keeping secrets, but he also has the most level head in the entire world.
00:26:04
Speaker
I am the crazy roller coaster knee jerk reaction. I'm going to tell everyone and he's like, okay, can we like sit down and talk about this? So, and I think he has like a really good moral compass when it comes to those sorts of things. And so I just feel like he would give me really
00:26:20
Speaker
Sage advice, you know has eight extra years of wisdom on me. So yeah, I would I wouldn't what if someone came to you and asked I mean, I definitely wouldn't tell their partner within myself just because I feel like I need to share this I I think cheating is pretty inexcusable especially in today's day and age with the just acceptance and like general ability to talk and
00:26:44
Speaker
to your partner about open relationships. So anyway, I'll say that. But if a friend has decided to do that, I think probably even three years ago, maybe five years ago, I would have been like aghast and morally offended if somebody had cheated on their spouse or their partner. And nowadays I just feel like it's not what I would do, but I'm not gonna tell your partner.
00:27:12
Speaker
but I definitely want to tell somebody because that shit is juicy. Blame it on the gist, as Lizzo would say.
Gossip and Religion
00:27:22
Speaker
What's your opinion on how the church handles gossip and also with the idea that since gossip is, I want to say it's like mostly a woman's game. Female leaning, female presenting, whatever game. To me,
00:27:40
Speaker
The church wanting to so badly stop that is like a sign of its constant need to control and have power over women.
00:27:50
Speaker
One million percent. Um, I have a big issue with the church being like, God, something's sin. Cause church is the most gossipy as shit you've ever been to. It's like bathing in it. It has it as it's like scent. It's in its soap. It's in its laundry detergent. It is all over you. Like, but it's presented as I'm going to tell you this so that you know what to pray for.
00:28:16
Speaker
So instead of it being gossip, it's like, oh, let me tell you all about this other person's problem so that you can pray over them. No, no, no. Let me tell you. This has been on my heart. I really need to talk about it.
00:28:29
Speaker
Okay, so yeah, I'm clearly I have a lot of issues with organized religion. And I think that the control of other people is like the literally the foundation of what religion was built upon. So there is a really great episode of Hidden Brain called creating God and so good. So good. Okay, we need to put a link to this because literally everyone needs to listen to this episode.
00:28:55
Speaker
So a quick synopsis for you guys of like the main point of the episode is that when humans started living, so this guy studied religion in the sense of an anthropological perspective. So what were humans doing at the time when major world religions were coming into
00:29:15
Speaker
times, right? Or coming into the picture. So basically we went from living in tribes of like 20 to 50 people where if you stole a loaf of bread or you killed so and so it was very easy to figure out who it was. But when we started living in these more metropolis areas where we had populations of a thousand or more
00:29:34
Speaker
Honestly, they needed a way for people to self police themselves because they could not build police forces to enact all of the laws they were setting out for these larger populations. So what is better than an omnipotent God that can see you doing everything and then that you as a contributor and faithful, faithful follower of the faith,
00:29:57
Speaker
can tattletale on the people who are breaking the rules and you are rewarded within the church and that person is punished and therefore you can rise up the ranks and get you know better more faster now because of your deep faith and attention to the law of the religion of your choice.
00:30:17
Speaker
So I think that methodology of controlling people has been honestly perfected inside of religion, especially inside of the church. And I think it's really upsetting. So one really interesting thing about it being a woman's game is that men typically in most houses of religion were the leaders, right? Like only men could be in positions of power.
00:30:42
Speaker
So when these powerful men would like tell their wives in the privacy of their bedrooms what was happening, I think it was a way for women to protect each other was to say what was going on. Or it was a power play to be able to kind of be the hand that moves the head if that makes sense or be the neck that moves the head. I think that's what it is. So I think women were using gossip as a way to continue to have a little bit of pull in these spaces where they weren't meant to. And so I think that that
00:31:10
Speaker
I think you could probably find some really good actual evidence of this and not just have a speculation, but I truly think that that could be a reason why we have it that way. Well, and I think deviating a little bit from this, but the opportunity for people to talk to one another about things brings together so many diverse brains to an issue, even if it's an issue about someone else, and it can allow you
00:31:38
Speaker
to basically learn from other people, I think, and also figure out how to think more critically. For instance, I like to think of myself as someone who can differentiate between truth and not, but oftentimes I'll take people at face value. And it takes somebody else giving me different information or a different perspective on that person.
00:32:04
Speaker
to be like, Oh, yeah, I just I guess I just assumed they were an expert, or they were whatever on this issue.
Gossip for Critical Thinking
00:32:12
Speaker
And I never would have second guessed it until someone like says something. I think it also can work the other way. Because I think like if someone comes to you with an opinion about someone that you already had experience with, you can almost also like negate their perspective to be like, that's not the way she is. Like she like,
00:32:32
Speaker
so and so would never have that kind of intention. It must have been, you know, I think it can come to the defense of other people as well. But I do enjoy, I think what's interesting is like when you bring like a little piece of gossip to a safe space, a group of friends to say, this is what's happening. Here's how I feel. Am I crazy? Like, what do you think? Like, I really enjoy those conversations. Like, so for instance, I have
00:32:56
Speaker
You guys in my business chat, but I have another set of friends from a different workshop that I have literally only I've only been with Brie like three times in person and actually literally once but I've talked to these women every single day for the last five years every single day and
00:33:15
Speaker
When it comes to like our clients and like, if we get like a crazy email request or like some psycho is asking for raw files, like we bring it to the group. We're like, what do you think? What should I do? Isn't this crazy? Isn't this absurd? And I think that it's really helpful in that sense because not only are we probably going to back you up, but we also give you like different
00:33:34
Speaker
professional perspectives and being able to say, Hey, this is the response I've drafted. What do you think?
Managing Professional Gossip
00:33:40
Speaker
And so it's like, you can have a little bit of support in those like stickier situations. So in a way, I don't know if that's necessarily considered gossip, but I think it is. Yeah, but it really, it really helps. And it is a safe space because you know, you're not, your friends aren't going to go and like put that shit on blast. Right. Versus the people that maybe don't have friends and are talking shit in
00:34:03
Speaker
public Facebook groups about their clients or other vendors. And I'm like, Oh, do we know, do we know someone like that? Hmm. I wonder, I wonder who it is I could be talking about, who was just, who frankly shits all the time on a bunch of people in a Facebook group and recently had a big post about a specific vendor. And then I actually worked with that vendor at my last wedding. And I was like, Oh yeah, I know who you are based on this other post.
00:34:31
Speaker
but I had a completely different experience with them. And if I was more of a bitch, I could have been like, look at what this vendor was saying about you in this forum. I did not do that, okay? I wanna hear this whole story off mic. Okay. My husband, by the way, listened to our last episode. He goes, so that was basically like you guys shitting on your industry. And I was like, no, that was a small segment and everyone gets to vent.
00:34:58
Speaker
I had a lot of feedback about me commenting about your orgasm noise. Oh yeah. Yeah. And I also got in trouble because my sister's currently reading fourth wing and we revealed we were spoilery. Oh shit. Maybe we have to put like a, we have to put like a, like a spoiler alert at the beginning. Oh, that's so funny. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry to your sister. It's fine. She's, I mean, she's smart enough to know that it was bound to happen, but okay. To close this out, do you have any,
00:35:27
Speaker
any gossip you can talk about without talking about it? Well, actually, I have like one point about gossip that I like I try to live by in my current state of life. Okay, that gossip is not bonding. Like that is not a friendship if all you do with that friend is gossip. I might argue with you about this.
00:35:47
Speaker
But I mean, if you spend your entire friendship and all you do is shit on people, that isn't friendship to me. There has to be more to the friendship. Okay, if it's all you do, agreed, but it is bonding in and of itself.
00:36:03
Speaker
Yeah, but I guess it's just like I want it to be I would hope that if you are gossiping with your friends that you're doing it in like almost a constructive way. That makes sense. So you're not just being a malicious person. I just don't want people to think that it's okay to gossip and be mean about people for the sake of being mean. Why? Because I truly think that that is like an energy
00:36:22
Speaker
brewing environment and like that negativity can just breed into so much else of your life because when you start gossiping in that kind of way, you become a more negative person and then suddenly nothing is your fault. It's this person's fault. And let me tell you why is this person's fault.
00:36:35
Speaker
And I think it can spiral. I think it can spiral. So I think if you're gossiping in a healthy, normal way, because I don't think there's maybe only Gandhi, honestly, and perhaps Jesus Christ when he walked this earth might be the only people who didn't gossip. I don't know, because apparently we only ever get to meet baby Jesus and 33 year old Jesus. There's really no in between there. So who knows who he was when he was a 17 year old asshole.
00:36:59
Speaker
You'll never know. I will never know. It's interesting because just from our conversation today, which we don't really have the time to go into it, I think you've had a really negative experience with gossip. I can tell.
Personal Growth and Gossip Reflection
00:37:13
Speaker
Just from your family past experiences, a lot of the gossip maybe you encountered was very hurtful and
00:37:22
Speaker
I had a very bad relationship with gossip up to some point in my life and then I now just feel like it's fun. So it's interesting because I can, you know, you've said like you try not to do it and to you it's not bonding and
00:37:39
Speaker
Well, just because I feel like I think what happens for me in my perspective is like, if that person is willing to gossip with me really hard about something, it just makes me sad to think that maybe they could turn around and do the exact same thing to me. And so I would always want to treat someone with respect and love and be like, Yeah, this is really frustrating. But you know, here's why I want to work through it. Here's why I'm telling you, I don't know, I just,
00:38:02
Speaker
Again, I like it to be a constructive experience so that that person doesn't then think that I'm just a horrible person that likes to talk shit about people therefore they can turn around and do it to me because like I think I just have like a puppy dog heart and I get really sad if I think about someone talking shit about me because I honestly deeply care about
00:38:20
Speaker
What people think of you? Well, people think of me and that they see me as a good person because that's what I really try to be is I want to care for people. I want to help people, encourage people, and I want to do good things in life. I do have a need to be seen as a good person because that is my goal, if that makes sense. I fully admit to that. That's interesting. I was an asshole in my teenage years and my early 20s.
00:38:47
Speaker
There are so many people that I wish I could apologize to, honestly, so many, because like what I would say to people is just so unnecessary. And I think that that not to like take this down, like I always do, but I think it's deeply rooted to my childhood and the environment that I grew up in of being just a very angry and entitled person, because I grew up around people who were like that. So then when
00:39:12
Speaker
I went to college and had a lot more experiences. I was just like, oh wow, I'm at the center of the universe. Crazy. So it just taught me to like, you just never know what people are going through and to just always be kind. And that's what I try to do. Yeah. Well, that was my thing. So I think if you're going to gossip, just try not to be too big of an asshole about it.
00:39:33
Speaker
Yeah, don't put too much stock in it either. Take it with a grain of salt.
Final Thoughts and Listener Engagement
00:39:38
Speaker
Don't take yourself too seriously. Maybe you just love the drama and that's all you're talking. And then move on and like live and let go. Live, laugh, and love. Yeah. On my next tattoo.
00:39:55
Speaker
Oh my god. Alright, Rule Breakers. Well, that is our episode for tonight. Be sure to hit that subscribe button. If you like us, leave us a five-star review. If you don't, you can leave. Or talk shit about us. And then be sure to follow us over on Instagram at... Rule.followers. We got some cute content over there. We'll see you next time. Alright. Too blue. Buh-bye!