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43. Finding Longevity & Wellness in Dance with the Nourished Dancer’s Nicole Sabella
157 Plays1 month ago
I am thrilled to be joined by Nicole Sabella, a multi-passionate dance professional who spent a decade performing with the Mark Morris Dance Group. Founder of The Nourished Dancer, she is now a dedicated dance educator, certified integrative nutrition health coach, and EFT tapping practitioner.
Nicole opens up about her early dance training, her transition from college into the professional world, and the challenges of making it in New York City. She also dives into how she secured her contract with the Mark Morris Dance Group after initially being told "no," emphasizing the importance of perseverance and staying visible in the dance community.
Key points:
✨ The struggles of transitioning into a professional dance career
✨ The key to longevity in dance and overcoming major injuries
✨ How holistic wellness, nutrition, and mental health impact performance
✨ EFT tapping and emotional regulation techniques for dancers
✨ The inspiration behind The Nourished Dancer and how she helps dancers thrive
Nicole also shares her deeply personal story of how a major health scare led her to retire from performing and fully embrace her work in dancer wellness and coaching.
Whether you're an aspiring dancer, a seasoned professional, or someone passionate about dance and wellness, this episode is packed with insight and inspiration!
Connect with Nicole:
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/nicole.e.sabella
WEBSITE: thenourisheddancer.com
Links and Resources:
Visit the Ballet Help Desk: https://ballethelpdesk.com/
Get 20% off your first order of ALOHA protein bars: https://aloha.com/BRAINYBALLERINA
More Than a Body by Lindsay Kite PhD and Lexie Kite PhD (affiliate link)
TED Talk by Dr. Lindsay Kite on body image resilience
1-1 Career Mentoring: book your complimentary career call
Let’s connect!
My WEBSITE: thebrainyballerina.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/thebrainyballerina
Questions/comments? Email me at caitlin@thebrainyballerina.com
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Transcript
Challenges in Dance and Comparisons to Athletes
00:00:00
Speaker
Because so often in dance, the demands are so high, but there's not the support to sort of meet those demands. And we push ourselves and we make it happen kind of by a miracle, but we don't have that same support that say athletes have with like a whole staff of wellness people to keep them at their best level.
00:00:20
Speaker
So probably like you with the brainy ballerina, I'm guessing like I wanted to be part of the support. I knew I had overcome things like difficult body image and going through restrictive eating and fad dieting and self-doubt and comparison. And I knew that I wanted to combine all of that with this new knowledge and certification from IIM.
Caitlin's Journey from Ballerina to Educator
00:00:43
Speaker
And so I just knew it was time to share it through Nourished Answers.
00:00:48
Speaker
I'm Caitlin, a former professional ballerina turned dance educator and career mentor, and this is the Brand New Ballerina podcast. I am here for the aspiring professional ballerina who wants to learn what it really takes to build a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry.
00:01:04
Speaker
I'm peeling back the curtain of professional dance world with open and honest conversations about the realities of becoming a professional dancer. Come along to gain the knowledge and inspiration you need to succeed in a dance career on your terms.
Nicole's Background and Passion for Dance
00:01:22
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Brainy Ballerina Podcast. I'm your host, Caitlin Sloan, and I am joined today by Nicole Sabella. Nicole is a multi-passionate dance professional and founder of The Nourish Dancer.
00:01:35
Speaker
She toured the world as a core member of the Mark Morris Dance Group for a decade and is now a dedicated dance educator, certified integrative nutrition health coach, and certified EFT tapping practitioner.
00:01:49
Speaker
Nicole, I am so thrilled to speak to you today and I would love to hear why did you take your very first dance class? Amazing. Well, I'm happy to share, but I just want to say thank you, Caitlin, for having me and I'm really excited.
00:02:02
Speaker
Of course. Well, according to my mom, I was always dancing. She liked to tell the story of going to an Elton John concert when she was pregnant and I was just like bouncing all over the place ah um in her belly. And so she told me I was always dancing.
Transition from Training to Professional Career
00:02:18
Speaker
I think at age four, I just told her, I said, mom, I'm going to be a dancer when I grow up. And she was like, okay. She always said, if you ever get tired of it, we can stop.
00:02:29
Speaker
But she enrolled me and I just never stopped. And I still haven't. And what was your training like growing up? Well, I started like most dancers at a local studio, studying tap and jazz, a little ballet, did some competitions.
00:02:44
Speaker
But then that studio closed maybe when I was in middle school, but I went to a middle school and high school magnet program for the performing arts. So I was getting dance training and in public school, which was great.
00:02:58
Speaker
In that training, it was mostly Vaganova ballet and Horton modern technique. So it was very codified. Like both of those techniques are like there is right and wrong. There is yes and no. So I was very strong, but had like a very codified training. But I was also going to a ballet studio called the Academy of Ballet Arts.
00:03:19
Speaker
It was very ballet. We did YAGP when it was fairly new, early 2000s. But my director brought in a lot of guest choreographers and there were summer programs. So I did get other dance training in jazz and in different styles of modern. And it felt very diversified, even though my regular training would was very codified. So a nice balance. And then I went to college. I got my BFA from the University of the Arts in modern dance.
00:03:47
Speaker
And the minute I learned modern dance, even back in high school, it just felt so rich to me. It was something I always knew that I wanted to follow.
00:03:58
Speaker
What was your experience like in college? What made you decide to take that path from high school? Well, the high school is called Pinellas County Center for the Arts. It's still in St. Petersburg, Florida, and it is a college preparatory program.
00:04:12
Speaker
So part of our training was preparing to audition for college and getting all of those materials ready. That was all done. in school. um So I think it was sort of just a path that was accessible and laid out to me. And because I was in public schooling, where dance felt like an academic to me, it felt equally important to like math.
00:04:34
Speaker
mean, to me, it was way more important, but it was given that importance. So it didn't feel that far off for me to go to college where dance would still be part of my education.
00:04:44
Speaker
oh As you transitioned out of college and into your career, what was that transition like for you? Difficult. Very, very difficult. My mom was a single mom.
00:04:58
Speaker
And so by the point I graduated college and even during college, I was 100% financially independent out of necessity. i was working, waiting tables late nights while in college to support myself.
00:05:12
Speaker
But then After college came the student loan debt, like so many people had. So then it was even more a necessity that I had to make money.
Pursuing Dance in NYC and Joining Mark Morris Dance Group
00:05:22
Speaker
And there really was no, there was no safety net of like, if you can't make rent,
00:05:27
Speaker
I've got you. Like there wasn't, there wasn't that safety net. So it was really difficult for me to balance the long hours at a restaurant up on your legs, getting home late, making sure I was getting to class, making sure I was getting to rehearsals and trying to like make it right. Like that was really, really hard. But I will say to answer your question that in college, I had already begun performing with a local company.
00:05:52
Speaker
One of my professors, Zane Booker had a company at the time called SLJ Arts Center. initiative. And I'll never forget the first time I was paid to dance. I'm sure you can relate. Like it's like this magical feeling like, wow, I got paid to do like what I love so much.
00:06:07
Speaker
So after college, I stayed in Philly for about two years and I danced freelance with several local groups. There was a moment where and just started feeling this call. If I was going to do this dance thing, like now is the time.
00:06:23
Speaker
was in my early twenties and I started feeling the call to go to New York city. I remember coming home after a rehearsal and I just said to my boyfriend at the time, who's now my husband, I said, i have to move to New York. This is something I have to do And i totally understand if you don't want to come with me, but I'm going.
00:06:41
Speaker
but it was like this instantaneous knowing that I had to do this. And he said, okay, let's go. He showed me he was the winner in that moment. I wasn't testing him, but he he passed the test. And between that time that we did move to New York and that I had that realization, there was an open call for the Mark Morris Dance Group in Brooklyn.
00:07:03
Speaker
So I took the mega bus from Philly to Manhattan and then MTA to Brooklyn. There was about 400 women in that call and I made the callback. And then there was a four day long callback.
00:07:16
Speaker
which in my mind, I was like, ah this is really cool. Like, it's like an intensive, basically, I'm learning all this rep, and I'm getting to know Mark Morris's style. It's not like you have to regurgitate it in five minutes.
00:07:27
Speaker
In most auditions, I had there was those four days to really like refine it. And then on the last day, we showed everything to Mark Morris. And I made it to the end, but I did not get a contract.
00:07:39
Speaker
And Mark And Nancy, the executive director told me to stay in touch. And so I did, I told them I was moving to New York soon and I would be in touch. So Andrew and I did move to Brooklyn and then literally nothing happened. There were like crickets for what felt like forever, but was probably like a year and a half.
00:08:03
Speaker
Not a friend in ballet class who invited me to a rehearsal, no connection building. It took me so long to get into a groove of a new city because I was lining up regular person jobs to pay the rent. And ah was barely getting to class or making time to audition because I was having to wait tables. And eventually I did find a routine and i started working under Maria Hanley, who's an early childhood dance educator and She trained me in teaching early childhood dance.
00:08:35
Speaker
was able to give up the restaurants and that freed me up to be able to focus on what I needed to do to be a dancer. After about two years of living in New York, I was showing my face. I was taking class at the Mark Morris Dance Center and I got a call to understudy Mark Morris's Blue Allegro at Lincoln Center. That would have been in 2013.
00:08:58
Speaker
And that was like a total pinch me. It was amazing. And on the day of the show, classic, I needed to go in for someone on the day of the show. So the following summer, I was invited again to understudy that same work, but this time it was for the PBS filming and it was taking place in Madrid, Spain.
00:09:17
Speaker
So it was like, no pressure. We're just like filming this for posterity. And I did end up having to go in to part of that also. And when we came back to New York, then they invited me on with a contract as an
Sustaining a Dance Career: Health and Resilience
00:09:32
Speaker
apprentice.
00:09:32
Speaker
At that moment, it definitely was a dream come true because it's a full-time dancing contract with Ben Fitz and with the choreographer that I really admired.
00:09:43
Speaker
Having toured the world with Mark Morris for a decade, what do you think led you to have such longevity in your dance career? I'll start off by saying it's not uncommon in MMDG for dancers to stay 10, 15 years. It's like not a revolving door type of company, but you're right.
00:10:04
Speaker
In dancer years, 10 years is is like a lifetime. so that is a long time. I'll accredit some of that to having a PT on staff at Mark Morris and also Mark valuing nuance and simple, clear technique over things like tricks and flashy steps. That's just his aesthetic, let's say. But in that decade, I did have two very major injuries that at the time seemed like it could have been career ending.
00:10:35
Speaker
By the second one, the company was thinking it was probably career ending. I had some overuse in my right ankle and we later found out it was from a deformity from birth.
00:10:48
Speaker
I have two bones in my foot that are connected that shouldn't be connected, calcaneus and a tallis. And so that was causing all kinds of things not being able to track appropriately.
00:10:58
Speaker
And then right as I was getting over that, I had a knee injury, a palpitial cyst in the right knee. And the thinking was that it was due to the ankle not functioning properly. So it was like one blow after the next.
00:11:12
Speaker
It was very mentally challenging because it was something that I couldn't fix, right? Like the bones are connected, period. And so it was like, how can I work around this? And that took a lot of mental work, actually, and emotional work to overcome that sort of barrier.
00:11:29
Speaker
say the longevity came from, yes, what most dancers do, which is I was diligently going to PT. I was working with my Pilates instructor, Clarice Marshall on some muscular re-patterning to hopefully help the ankle. So I was doing all the things that are normal in healing and injury, but I was also taking a very holistic approach that was geared toward lowering inflammation.
00:11:56
Speaker
And also balancing my nervous system, coming into the parasympathetic because that's where healing can take place. And it's so easy when we're injured to be in that fight or flight part of the nervous system because it's so stressful. So I knew that I needed to be focused on coming into as much groundedness as I could.
00:12:19
Speaker
So I was making sure to eat anti-inflammatory foods. to really nourish my body in a way that would promote lower inflammation. i was doing all the things i was going to acupuncture. I was taking supplements.
00:12:31
Speaker
At a certain point I was seeing a chiropractor to get my bones in better alignment. The biggest one was my mental and emotional health. I was seeing traditional therapist pretty much the whole time was in the company.
00:12:47
Speaker
But during that period of being injured, I also invested in working with an EFT practitioner and i've since become certified in emotional freedom techniques, but our emotions are very intricately linked to our nervous system.
00:13:05
Speaker
So of course, when we're injured, we're feeling things like anger and FOMO and feeling like it's our fault or I'll never get back. So I knew that I needed to effectively process those feelings and move them through my body.
00:13:19
Speaker
Because emotions can raise cortisol and all of those inflammatory things. So this was going with my anti-inflammatory holistic method. And I'd say that that was very transformational for me.
00:13:32
Speaker
It was very important in getting over the hump of feeling like I won't be able to get through this so that I could actually focus on what I needed to do to heal my body. And so I know that can sound overwhelming to a lot of dancers if they're injured. Like I did all the things and I recognize there's some privilege in that too.
00:13:51
Speaker
But as long as you are doing what feels right for you in making sure physically, mentally, and emotionally you're taking care of yourself, I know all of those three things are what contributed to my longevity.
00:14:04
Speaker
I know as a dancer, especially, ah you know, younger and training and everything that I definitely neglected that mental and emotional part during injuries, because in my mind, it was all physical.
00:14:16
Speaker
And I did find similar to you, like, and I wouldn't even say that I did all of those techniques. And I'd love to hear more about those. But just even the simple act of accepting that it was and emotional time and that it was hard and that I was allowed to be upset and mad. And then that was OK. And then also recognizing like when going into the studio felt bad and when it felt good, because I think one thing that lot of dancers struggle with, at least that I did was this thought that like I'm injured, but I still need to be there all the time.
00:14:48
Speaker
I'm supposed to be present, still learning the rep being there for my colleagues. And yes, there are certain injuries where you still have to be there because maybe you're out for a week and it's like, well, yeah, you still need to make sure you're learning the rep, getting the corrections, ready to go back in when you're ready again. But if it's like a longer term thing, I found that being in the studio was really harmful for me because I would just get way more depressed, be way more down on myself.
00:15:14
Speaker
I used all my energy there. I didn't have the energy to be doing my PT or whatever else I need to be doing outside of it. So that's one thing I always say to dancers is have a conversation with your director and talk about, do I need to be here? is' it okay if I'm not present in the studio, if it's affecting you emotionally? Because you get in this place where you're always told like you should be there and then It can affect you and that can affect your healing physically. 100%. You are speaking my language. I actually had to have that conversation because for the first injury, unless the company was on tour, I was there.
00:15:48
Speaker
And it was affecting my mental health. And so by the time I got to the second injury, i forget exactly how it went down, but I did say, you know, I really think I could be more effective if I'm able to go to the acupuncture appointment and if I'm able to take care of myself in X, Y, and Z ways.
00:16:07
Speaker
And we did work out a system, but I completely agree with you that chatting with your director or your personal director or your teacher, if you're injured and finding a plan that works for both parties is very practical because it's also freeing up your time so that you can take care of yourself and get back sooner. So it's a win-win on both sides. So I totally encourage dancers to do that.
00:16:30
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
Resources and Emotional Management in Dance
00:16:32
Speaker
Let's pause this episode so I can tell you about one of my favorite resources for dancers, Ballet Help Desk. If you've been loving the Brainy Ballerina podcast, you'll want to add the Ballet Help Desk pod to your list.
00:16:46
Speaker
This is the premier podcast for dance parents and hosts Brett and Jenny share weekly x expert insights on supporting your students' ballet education. They cover key topics like summer intensives, ballet competitions, full-time and post-grad training, health and wellness, boys and ballet, and more to help your dancer make the most informed decisions about their unique training path.
00:17:12
Speaker
Another one of my favorite resources from Ballet Help Desk is their reviews. Head to their website for over 1,400 reviews on summer intensives and year-round training programs.
00:17:23
Speaker
And while you're at it, submit your review to help other dancers and their families make important decisions about their future. The more transparency in the dance world, the better. Head to the show notes to visit the Ballet Help Desk website today.
00:17:38
Speaker
Can you tell us more about EFT and these techniques that you used as a dancer and that now you're certified in? Sure. So EFT tapping stands for emotional freedom techniques, and it's an evidence-based practice.
00:17:52
Speaker
It uses the same meridian system as acupuncture. So the meridian system from Chinese medicine. And what we do is we tap on different meridian endpoints on the body, mostly around the face and upper body.
00:18:06
Speaker
while talking about the memory or the situation or the feeling that is distressing. And of course there's a more codified technique to that, but generally speaking, And what that does is that tapping action speaks to the part of the brain called the amygdala.
00:18:24
Speaker
And that's the part of the brain that controls that fight or flight response. So it brings a soothing to the nervous system and to the body. And it helps the person or the client relate to the emotion.
00:18:39
Speaker
There's less emotional charge. So you can relate to it like thinking about what you ate for breakfast in the morning. It's not like Men in Black, where you're wiping your your memory, right? You still remember, you know that that happened, but you're relating to it in a much different way. You can hold it a little bit more loosely and that frees up your energy.
00:19:00
Speaker
It lowers cortisol, boosts dopamine, balances the nervous system while effectively processing Emotions. Something that really fascinates me is that emotions are measurable.
00:19:13
Speaker
They're chemical responses in the body that science can see and know. So how can we effectively process them and not push them down so they grow really big? Because if we ignore them, they get bigger, right? So looking at them with compassion through this process is very, very effective.
00:19:32
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. I think that's something as dancers we tend to want to do is really push those emotions down. We're always taught leave it at the door, whatever's going on, just leave at the door, come in the studio and do your work and be focused. And it's not how it actually works in real life. Exactly. You can't just compartmentalize those things or maybe you can for a short period of time, but it's going to catch up to you eventually and it's going to affect everything. And I always say too, I always found like some injuries were different, but a lot of injuries that I had where they were maybe like a sprained ankle or something that was just kind of like I wasn't paying attention as much as I could have been or like I was having a really hard emotional day and instead of being like I need to
00:20:14
Speaker
do something about this. i need to accept this. I need to work through this. I would just try to leave at the door, but it's not gone. It's still there. And then my brain would be distracted. and would take a weird step, spray my ankle. And it always happened in those times when I was in a bad place to begin with.
00:20:28
Speaker
And then when I was able to take those emotions and find a way to use them in my dancing, it was so much more effective. I realized I could use that in a more effective way and actually make me a better dancer and bring that into the studio. And I'm just saying, you're not allowed to feel emotions. So just pretend that didn't happen.
00:20:44
Speaker
I love that because you're absolutely right. What we're going through in our lives is inextricable from how we're dancing. They are very much the same thing. And the more you grow emotionally and mature in that way and are able to hold a variety of emotions, then we're able to express ourselves.
00:21:06
Speaker
more artistically and access those when we're being called to do so in choreography. So it's all part of the journey as an artist of taking whatever you're going through or a difficult lesson or a challenge, learning those lessons and then sort of transmuting them or alchemizing them into your artistic process or into practical ways to learn for the future.
Touring Tips and Artistic Highlights
00:21:30
Speaker
Having been in a company that did a lot of touring, Do you have any tips for dancers going on tour, living that lifestyle? Definitely. Well, for dancers who are introverts like me, I would say try to find the balance between being with the group and doing the whole social aspect of touring, which is very important. Don't ignore that either, but also do what you need to do for yourself.
00:21:56
Speaker
That's what I would say. Leave the party early, take the bath and have no FOMO about that. Like do what you need to do for yourself and find that balance. I would also say to not worry about eating perfectly because on tour, you're away from your normal eating habits and that can be really disorienting.
00:22:18
Speaker
for a lot of dancers, but try to make the best choice you can make in each situation and give yourself credit for that. Like you might not have an A plus choice, but the best you could do is the C plus choice and give yourself props for that.
00:22:32
Speaker
And pack your favorite snacks and do what you can, but also hold it loosely without obsessing. I always think of this tour we went on. We didn't do a lot of touring at MCB, but we did go on tour to South Korea.
00:22:44
Speaker
We had a sister city And we were invited to come perform as part of this big expo. So they were hosting us. They were so, so kind and great hosts. And we were staying in this hotel. And every single morning at the breakfast at the hotel, there was French fries.
00:22:59
Speaker
And we were like, huh, that's interesting. And and i think by day three, somebody asked one of our guides, do you always have French fries for breakfast? Is that part of a normal Korean breakfast? And they said, no, in America you do.
00:23:14
Speaker
we were like, wow no, we we really don't. That's not normal. But they were trying to make us feel comfortable or trying to make sure we had the things that we were used to. And they were just like, Oh, Americans eat French fries for every meal. So we'll make sure they have this. And it was so funny. And it was just like such a interesting cultural thing. But I do think that's so true. I mean, when we that was a tour I went on that was the most different than my normal eating patterns and trying new things and being a little bit more adventurous.
00:23:41
Speaker
but it definitely was. i was glad that I brought like just bars and that kind of thing. and if I ever had something that didn't sit well with my stomach, I'm one of those people who's like, I feel like i get nauseous from anything, you know, like just very easily nauseous. So I would just be like, you know what? I have to perform. I'm just going to have one of my bars or something so that I feel like My tummy doesn't get upset. and then I would try everything after the performances because I was still wanting to experience the culture.
00:24:06
Speaker
But I totally agree with that. Like you just never know what will be available. Definitely. That is a great story because they were trying so hard to take care of you. and But yes, some funky food things happen on tour. Absolutely. So rolling with the punches, but also prepared is a big part it.
00:24:26
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I cut you off when you were going to say, was there something else that you wanted to share about? yeah its we like Warm up. Make sure to warm up because it's really easy to get excited by the new city or the new country and do all the sightseeing and all the social things.
00:24:43
Speaker
But in those long theater days, you know, they take a toll on the body and leaving ample time to warm up and cool down is very, very important. We know that, but just a friendly reminder.
00:24:55
Speaker
Yes. No, for sure. It can get hard, especially when you're out of your normal routine and you're traveling and you're like sleeping in a bed that's not yours. There's so many things out of your control and that is definitely do the things you can control to make yourself still be able to feel your best.
00:25:11
Speaker
Absolutely. Do you have ah favorite piece or a favorite memory or role from your time dancing with Mark Morris? I would say the most artistically enriching experience I had in the company was a piece Mark was creating when i was fairly new called Layla and Majnun.
00:25:30
Speaker
In the Middle East, that's basically like their story of Romeo and Juliet. It's a very famous story in in that culture. And We worked with the Silk Road Ensemble, the time it was Yo-Yo Ma's group, used this beautiful opera.
00:25:47
Speaker
And so it felt artistically enriching because i was learning about this other culture and taking on, was one of the Leilas taking on this role, this beautiful music.
00:25:59
Speaker
And the singers are right there on stage next to us, sort of feeling the vibration of their voice as you're dancing and bringing that to life. I was always told from a young age, like, you're such a performer. And yes, I loved to performing.
00:26:12
Speaker
But I learned while I was in the company that being in creative process was very interesting for me. They try that again. no face a different direction. Let's do it in a canon. Wait, we're going to do it in this formation. Like all of that is like super fascinating to my brain.
00:26:29
Speaker
And so I love being in this process that was also cultural and artistic and historical.
Health Challenges, Retirement, and New Beginnings
00:26:35
Speaker
So you recently retired. Can you talk about how you decided it was time to close the performing chapter?
00:26:43
Speaker
Yes. Yes, this is a big one because it was very recent for me. From the time I joined the Mark Morris Dance Group, I always had in my head that I wanted to dance about 10 years with the company, which I did.
00:26:57
Speaker
So I was coming up on that time and I was like gracefully and slowly planning how I would leave, but I hadn't made any big announcements. It was still just like an idea in my head. It hadn't been real yet.
00:27:08
Speaker
But then in March of 2023, I got very, very sick. I started feeling it while I was on tour in Arizona and Seattle. I started having night sweats and what felt like a stomach bug.
00:27:21
Speaker
When I got back to New York, I saw my doctor and we were taking precautions as though it was maybe like a norovirus, but I had had it for a length of time. So he didn't think I was contagious anymore.
00:27:35
Speaker
So I got clearance to do our next show, which was the following week at the Brooklyn Academy of Music. which feels like Mark Morris Dance Group's sort like home base. There's a nice affiliation there, but it's not technically that, but it feels that way.
00:27:48
Speaker
So we I did the show, so we thought it would pass. We thought it was just something like that. But shortly after I got very, very ill. My blood work was very scary. was tested for everything under the sun for a month straight. um And in the meantime, I was just getting sicker and sicker, but we couldn't figure out what it was. And then had a CT scan finally.
00:28:09
Speaker
And they discovered a mass in my abdomen. And eventually we learned it was a very rare type of cancerous tumor in the retroperitoneum, which is a space in the abdomen. I, that was new to me as well.
00:28:23
Speaker
And that this tumor needed to be taken out immediately. So that was very scary. In the meantime, I was like missing a world premiere that I had referred, you know, there was all those dancer things going on in the background, but within two days of learning that I was brought in for a major abdominal surgery, removing the tumor, a kidney, adrenal gland, lot. It was major.
00:28:49
Speaker
And then an eight day hospital stay. I can say now eight months out that thankfully I'm feeling very well. I'd say it was about a four month recovery from not being able to get out of bed not even be able to laugh or like cry because the way that palpates the stomach, you know, it's too painful to full workouts in the gym.
00:29:10
Speaker
And I did that. i was seeing a PT and I was, you know, following all of the rules about when I could start being active, but I was diligent and making sure I was getting back. And now i'm working back in ballet classes just, just for me.
00:29:23
Speaker
But all that to say is it was another time where I just had like this small voice in my head and then knowing, Like the moment I found out what it was, i knew it was time.
00:29:34
Speaker
And it wasn't even that I thought I wouldn't be able to recover. Of course, there were those doubts because of how scary it was. But I'm so familiar with recovery from those injuries. Not at all that it's the same thing, but I believed so much in the body's ability to recover.
00:29:51
Speaker
Like I know that the body can recover and it's resilient, but it was more so just a knowing that I knew it was time. to put my health first and lower my stress because as much as we all love dancing, the show must go on and it can be a very stressful thing, even though we love it so much. So yeah, my last show was March, 2023.
00:30:11
Speaker
I'm sorry, 2024. Oh my goodness. March, 2024 in Brooklyn. That was sort of the whole view I left. Wow. And how are you doing now with all of that?
00:30:22
Speaker
I'm still going in for scans every four months. And so far, I've been doing really well, and they've been clear. And we're taking it a day at a time. I'm paying extra attention to my nutrition and the way I take care of myself and also my mental and emotional health.
00:30:38
Speaker
And so far, I'm doing really well. And how are you feeling mentally, emotionally about retiring? you know, it's almost like... This situation took some of the pressure off.
00:30:50
Speaker
I know a lot of retired dancers. I have friends who still can't go see a show or still can't step foot in a theater or even a dance class. I'm grateful to say I'm not experiencing that because there was such clarity that now is the time.
00:31:05
Speaker
Like you've completed what you were supposed to do there. You've learned all you can. it was a great experience, but it's time. So there are times I miss being that active or that feeling of being so embodied.
00:31:20
Speaker
But I am feeling pretty excited actually about my future and what I'm building in myself as a teacher and even rediscovering what dance means for me at this stage because I still love moving my body to music.
00:31:35
Speaker
So it's a process, but it feels pretty good. Good. Let's quickly pause this episode so I can share with you one of my favorite snacks that I have been loving lately.
00:31:47
Speaker
As a busy dancer, educator, and mom, I am always looking for a snack that I can throw into my dance bag that will be quick, convenient, and provide lasting energy.
00:31:59
Speaker
That's why I was so excited to find Aloha Protein Bars. Aloha bars give me everything I need. With 14 grams of plant-based protein and 10 grams of fiber, I can count on this snack to keep me going.
00:32:13
Speaker
Plus, they are delicious. My favorite flavors are the coconut chocolate almond and the lemon cashew. But honestly, you cannot go wrong. These products are vegan, gluten-free, and certified organic.
00:32:27
Speaker
And the best news is you can get 20% off your first order with code BRAINYBALLERINA. Head to the show notes and click the link to try Aloha Protein Bars for yourself today. Can you tell us more about the Nourish Dancer, how that started, what you do?
00:32:43
Speaker
sure So yes on a much, much lighter note, while dancing full time, was 2017. I enrolled in a year-long program, Institute of Integrative Nutrition, and I earned my holistic health coach certification then.
00:33:00
Speaker
And while I was in the company, I was coaching people from all walks of life. But then the pandemic happened in 2020 and I sort of got really serious and I realized how much I loved coaching, but that I was really wanting to work specifically with dancers and reconnect to that because so often in dance, the demands are so high, but there's not the support to sort of meet those demands.
00:33:28
Speaker
And we push ourselves and we make it happen kind of by a miracle. but we don't have that same support that say athletes have with like a whole staff of wellness people to keep them at their best
Coaching Philosophy and Body Image Struggles
00:33:39
Speaker
level.
00:33:39
Speaker
So probably like you with the brainy ballerina, I'm guessing like I wanted to be part of the support. I knew I had overcome things like difficult body image and going through restrictive eating and fad dieting and self-doubt and comparison and I knew that I wanted to combine all of that with this new knowledge and certification from IIN.
00:34:02
Speaker
And so I just knew it was time to share it through the Nourished Dancer. So can you share some of those practical tools that you teach dancers to help them with their dance careers? Yes. So grounding and emotional regulation is a big one because we kind of can't make lasting change without that. So through things like meditation and the EFT tapping,
00:34:24
Speaker
nutrition knowledge and education from an eating for energy perspective, growth mindset skills, Carol Dweck, confidence exercises, building confidence, body image practices. a lot of that built on the work of Lindsay and Lexi Kite from More Than a Body. have a great book and TED talk and I've made it apply to dance in my own work and then really pointed journal prompts that are specific.
00:34:53
Speaker
to each dancer. And the sweet spot I find is integrating all of that into the body through private lessons. So discovering how all of that inner work is affecting the dancer outwardly in their dancing and getting the privilege of watching the transformation ah dancers who start out timid and more reserved and maybe eyes are at the floor, you know, that kind of thing to really bold and confident and risk-taking dancers.
00:35:26
Speaker
And a lot of their instructors or teachers will even mirror that back to them or give them that feedback. Because what I found is, especially today, there's so much talent. Like talent is rarely the issue. It's like actually these softer skills that can set the dancer apart. For instance, like do you get into the audition and shrink because of low confidence? Or does your anxiety get the best out of you and you fall out of your turns?
00:35:51
Speaker
Or At minute 25 of the 30 minute long dance, are you exhausted because you're under fueled? Those are the actual things that make a difference. And of course, it's individualized for the dancer in front of me.
00:36:05
Speaker
But those are my go to tools. So if a dancer needs support and they come to you, what does that process look like? The first thing is a nurse dancer call, which is a totally free coaching call where the dancer and and myself, we're learning about each other. So I'm learning about their challenges, their goals.
00:36:22
Speaker
And if I think I have a program that supports them in reaching those goals, I communicate what that program would be. I offer the Dancers Wellness Program and also a Master Your Mindset program, and then additionally private lessons.
00:36:38
Speaker
So we talk about what might be most beneficial for them in those goals. Then there's a period where they can decide if that's what's best for them. And then we'll move forward with one of those programs.
00:36:49
Speaker
Amazing. I know you touched on injury and those kinds of things as a dancer and how you use some of these techniques to help heal and have a more holistic approach.
00:37:01
Speaker
Was there anything else that you personally struggled with as a dancer that these techniques have helped you with? One of my biggest struggles in high school and college, and I know I know I'm not alone in this was body image, despite sort of like being at the top of my classes and from all of my teachers in every jury or every, anytime I got feedback, it was always, you're a good dancer, but you know, you need to lose weight.
00:37:28
Speaker
And was given all kinds of advice about how to do that. And I tried, you know, every fad diet there was from Slim Fast to Atkins to South beach, to you name it. I tried it.
00:37:42
Speaker
And not only did all of that damage my metabolism, but it very much damaged my self-worth in the process. At a certain point, my self-esteem pretty much at the time where it was about to start auditioning, my self-esteem was pretty low.
00:37:56
Speaker
It sort of had chip on my shoulder about all of that. It was really when I started turning toward what is actual nutrition that's going to support me in performing as a dancer.
00:38:08
Speaker
versus will this food help me lose weight? That was a big shift. And then I was able to show up without that chip on my shoulder.
00:38:19
Speaker
And I noticed that I was being received differently, even though my body hadn't changed. It was an an energetic thing and it was a confidence thing in the way I was carrying myself.
00:38:30
Speaker
At first, with the body image stuff, it was very much like an I'll show them. you know, going to be successful anyway. And that only got me so far.
00:38:40
Speaker
Like it did get me somewhere. But I reached a point where I needed to actually do the deep inner healing around how much that hurt to sort of let all of that go I will say that that happened maybe years later, actually, like during my professional career when I looked around and realized like,
00:38:57
Speaker
I am here. I did make it. And now it's safe for me to sort of process all of that hurt because it it can be very, very painful. And that pain point fuels a lot of my work with dancers, for sure.
00:39:09
Speaker
I mean, I feel like when I hear you talking about the buts, if you would just lose the weight, that was like always the message that I got to. and And I don't actually hear this a lot from dancers, but my personal...
00:39:20
Speaker
response to that was wanting to have a sense of control and not in the way of like, I'm going to control my body and lose a lot of weight. It was like, I'm in control of what I eat and I'm in control of my body and you can't tell me what to do to ah point where i was eating in a way that did not feel good at all.
00:39:40
Speaker
to me like you can't tell me not to have this I'm gonna have a lot of it kind of thing and I didn't feel good but it was just like I felt like I was had so little control and autonomy in so many areas of my life that it was like I've got to control this one thing and the more I was told to lose weight the more i like wanted to go the opposite direction I don't know if that's something that you have encountered with dancers or if that's a like I feel like I don't hear as many people talking about and in that way but that was always what I felt like Yeah, that can certainly come up because there's this rebellion. For me, it was in the I'll show you. It sounds like for you, it was in like, yeah, well, I am going to eat this. and what are you going to do about it?
00:40:21
Speaker
Exactly. like But we have to control something, right? When we feel out of control, I think it's just a natural human response. I tend to be more type a probably for reasons where I felt out of control in my upbringing. Like, I think that's a natural response to when we feel like things are out of our control to reach for what's in our control.
00:40:42
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. If there's a dancer who is dealing with body image, dealing with any of these things we've talked about, what would you tell them? What could be an action step they could take today you start to work through this?
00:40:57
Speaker
Great question. The first thing I always recommend is body gratitude practices. and... and The dancer who comes in with that, it's the last thing they want to do. So I always say, I don't care if you're grateful for your pinky finger.
00:41:18
Speaker
You know, like I don't care if you're grateful for your eyelashes or i don't care, but there is something that you can be grateful for. it is definitely not only being grateful for how something looks on your body, more so the sense of value and The ability to learn to appreciate our bodies comes from learning to value what our bodies are doing or how our bodies are supporting us.
00:41:46
Speaker
So i offer body gratitude meditations, body gratitude journaling, and really this introspection and this reflection on, wow, my heart is beating right now and I'm not doing anything to make that happen.
00:42:01
Speaker
Like my body is awesome or my lungs, I'm just breathing. let alone doing the turns and the leaps and the floor work and you know whatever else amazing that dancers can do so beautifully, like remembering how miraculous our bodies are. I think that's always step number one.
00:42:20
Speaker
And that doesn't mean that we're glossing over what pains us. You know, that's still there. That still needs to be worked through eventually. But the first step is recognizing body's not the enemy.
00:42:33
Speaker
There are things that our bodies are doing really well and our bodies are always trying to support us. Yeah, I feel like for all of the issues that I've had and still continue to work through, when I had my first...
00:42:47
Speaker
child and held this tiny baby in my arms who my body had created. I'm like, I literally grew that arm, you know, and like this, this tiny person. And it was, that was the first time i felt like I was able to have that realization of like, that's amazing that your body did that.
00:43:06
Speaker
Yeah. And pregnancy was really hard for me. And it was very physically challenging, emotionally challenging, all the things. It was very healing for me to be able to recognize how amazing that was. Even if I looked my body and I didn't like the way that it looked or I still was wanting to nitpick things, it was the first time I was able to be like, wow, but look what you created.
00:43:28
Speaker
And I'm not saying you have to go through a pregnancy to experience that, but that was a very pivotal moment. For me personally, in coming to that place of gratitude for everything my body could do because I had spent so many years talking down to my body about all the things I felt it couldn't do and the way it couldn't look.
00:43:49
Speaker
Dancers are so, so hard on themselves. And we're in a culture where we're constantly getting corrections and feedback. and of course, we need that to grow. Yeah. But when your job is constantly being told all the things that you should be doing differently with your body, it's very hard to get to that place of gratitude for what it can do. But that was a huge shift for me mentally. And even now, just to like look at my children and be like, you made those people with your body. And that's crazy.
00:44:19
Speaker
It is crazy. And it's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so glad you brought that up. And something else you brought up reminded me that it's also what we call body image resilience. So this is the idea that you never arrive at this place of perfect body image. You know, I can't say I've arrived at this place where I never feel a moment of self doubt. Like, of course I do.
00:44:43
Speaker
My body's going through changes after surgery and, you know, all these things. And of course those things come up, but the resilience piece comes in knowing how strongly you value your body and knowing that it's a moment will pass that will pass and knowing that your body is so much more than just how you look.
00:45:02
Speaker
Treating each difficult body image moment like an invitation to remember those things.
Final Advice and Connecting with Nicole
00:45:07
Speaker
I love that. Yeah. And the book you mentioned, More Than a Body, was one of our book club picks for the Brain Valeria Book Club. And I totally recommend that book. And and I'm glad you reminded me because I think I need to read it again. and Definitely something that I think every dancer should read, you know, help to start to internalize that resilience piece.
00:45:25
Speaker
Yeah, such a good book. And there are TED Talk too. If you don't, to the listeners, if you don't have time to sit down and read the book, like they have a great TED Talk that summarizes a lot of what's in there. Perfect.
00:45:36
Speaker
Okay, Nicole, before we wrap up, I would just love to hear if you had one piece of advice to give to aspiring dancers pursuing a career, what would you tell them? I would say the dance world, or even just the world in general, may tell you all the reasons why you can't, or why you're not up to the task.
00:45:56
Speaker
And I would say to dancers, you are responsible for being your own champion. Of course, take the corrections the constructive feedback, the open, but at a deeper level, you get to take every struggle.
00:46:10
Speaker
You get to learn the lesson from it and you get to turn it into gold for yourself. You wouldn't have a hunger to dance and you wouldn't have this dream if you weren't meant to chase it.
00:46:21
Speaker
always say this, I'm not talking about like, it would be nice if, or I'd like to dance or maybe one day. I'm talking about like raw, passionate, almost painful hunger to dance. Like I must dance. Like if you have that and you train and you stay open and you listen to where life is taking you, this is key, if you take care of yourself also throughout all of that, I truly believe dancers who do all that will be unstoppable.
00:46:50
Speaker
If there's any dancers out there who want to reach out to you or want to learn more about what you do, the work you do, can you tell us how they can find you? Sure. The best place right now is Instagram.
00:47:03
Speaker
I'm at nicole.e.sabella. And I'm currently reworking my website, but you can go to thenourishedancer.com. Okay, perfect. Thank you so much for this conversation, Nicole. It was so great to connect with you. And I i learned a lot and I really appreciate all of your work. So thank you. I'm really grateful for the opportunity. Thank you, Caitlin. you.
00:47:29
Speaker
Thank you for tuning into the Brainy Ballerina podcast. If you found this episode insightful, entertaining, or maybe a bit of both, I would so appreciate you taking a moment to leave a rating and hit subscribe.
00:47:41
Speaker
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00:47:55
Speaker
I'll be back with a new episode next week. In the meantime, be sure to follow along on Instagram at thebrainyballerina for your daily dose of dance career guidance.