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Unscripted: Era of the Unknown
70 Plays24 days ago
Join our hosts of Unscripted as they provide their personal takes on discussions from our January RTL episode centered on many unknowns... including dating while Black in medicine, AI, the state of healthcare worldwide, and more. As always, we hope you have your tea ready!
To share your thoughts on our discussion or if you have any questions to ask our hosts, email podcast@snma.org for a chance to be featured on the show!
Disclaimer: The opinions and views expressed on our podcast do not reflect the official stance of the Student National Medical Association.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Series
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Unscripted, a series where we take our most high-yield run-the-list conversations a step further. Our goal for each episode is to uncover our personal takes of previously discussed topics while highlighting diverse viewpoints that may be representative of our listeners.
00:00:15
Speaker
So sit back, relax, and get your tea ready as we, your hosts, take you through our thoughts on some very trending topics.
00:00:40
Speaker
Hi everybody. um guys it's Dr. Samiza. Hi, how's everybody doing? You guys know me, it's Dr. Dumevi, OBGYN resident. How are you? How's everything going, guys? Hi everyone, this is Chesa.
00:00:57
Speaker
Hope y'all are hanging in there, doing okay.
Being 35+, Unmarried, and Black in Medicine
00:00:59
Speaker
Okay guys, so to get us started, we're gonna get into our first topic, which honestly, I feel like I bring this topic up a lot. It's like my favorite thing to talk about.
00:01:09
Speaker
Um, it's so one of the topics that we brought up, one of our favorite hosts, Dr. Aldwin brought up being 35 plus unmarried and a black man in medicine. Well, I don't know about the black man part, but I like talking about the other topics.
00:01:26
Speaker
um But yeah, basically on that um episode, we were kind of discussing, you know, just what the intersections of all those things mean, especially as, you know, a black man, I'm going to say it from the perspective of a black woman in medicine.
00:01:43
Speaker
um But at that, in the episode, they were basically just saying that being 35, unmarried and black in medicine brings a unique intersection of challenges and advantages and societal pressures It's often characterized as navigating a rigorous career while defying traditional milestones.
00:02:01
Speaker
While many while many in this position experience isolating pressures, it's also a demographic that brings immense life experience, emotional maturity, and for Black women specifically, a needed, though underrepresented, perspective to health care. This is ah this is very interesting to me. yeah The email part.
00:02:20
Speaker
um I was not on last month's episode, but maybe as someone that was, can you just explain to me you know, just sort of what the conversation was, the background, and how this all went
Challenges Black Men Face in Relationships
00:02:33
Speaker
down. Okay, so basically Aldwyn had posed a point saying that for him as a Black man in medicine, it is difficult to find his mate. Just like I feel like a lot of people kind of experience. And um What was interesting is that me and Isabella, though we didn't disagree with him that it's hard for, you know, black men or anyone really in medicine to find their mate because of time and the criteria that you're looking for. we were also kind of like in disbelief a little bit because we feel like as men in society, you tend to have an advantage
00:03:09
Speaker
to finding women. And then I gave my point of when I was in medical school for every many black, not many, but more black women in medicine, there was that one or two per class. Like my class in medicine had one black man and then he'd even finished. So there was no black man after that. And the black men that were there weren't really, it was more like brother, sister, SNMA love vibes. It wasn't romantic vibes. Who they were having romantic vibes with were not in the SNMA. Okay. So sorry, sorry, sorry. So it was like, hmm, like you guys have the advantage because, you know, there are more black women in medicine than black men.
00:03:51
Speaker
So you have more to choose from than we do, you know. But I understand that, you know, as a professional, you have maybe like higher standards and you're looking for those women to meet those higher standards that you have.
Societal Expectations in Relationships
00:04:05
Speaker
And then plus being 35 and up, you're also looking for like maturity and things like that too as well. So I get that qualm.
00:04:13
Speaker
However... I mean, it's a very interesting take. I'll just say that. And I'm not discounting his experience at all. um He's an elite guy looking for an elite woman. I get it. But I think he just maybe opened the eye a little wider.
00:04:27
Speaker
and so maybe you'll find somebody. I feel like I have a lot of thoughts. So I'm going to let you go first. And then I'll come back to me. I mean, guy's just trying to find his mate, y'all. You know what i'm mean?
00:04:40
Speaker
Where's she yeah Where you, my damn lady? Madam Alduin, please come to the front. Please email the lounge.
00:04:52
Speaker
If you can email the lounge, if you are Alduin's lady, please. That would me to please i would be great. We shall be looking out for that email. I mean, i i i i totally you go i totally get what you said to maybe just coming from that perspective, especially of choice, right? There is one African person black men in medicine in my class pretty much. Right. um And you have five plus women in my class.
00:05:22
Speaker
That is also not to discount his experience. I feel like just more generally um from the perspective of just being in medicine, I think we just spent so much time.
00:05:34
Speaker
in fact, I saw this
Economic Challenges in Medicine
00:05:35
Speaker
TikTok, I think a youtube YouTube channel video that was a challenge and on the message it says the first person to talk about medicine during this lunch date is going to pay for the entire group and I thought that was super funny and you just saw everybody looking into space and just looking all weird and stuff because that's just how much our lives are ah our lives just consumed by everything in medicine related so I mean in a way it is real and you also do have like economic problems that were brought ah brought about by
00:06:09
Speaker
those who came before us, the boomers especially. So we're just living in expensive times, y'all, you know? i mean, everyone wants a a so-called um finished product, whatever that means.
00:06:24
Speaker
Why is this girl so funny? has been ah feel like I'm staring the pot a little bit here. The finished product, if you don't want Bob the Builder, the finished product is not going to be ready.
00:06:41
Speaker
Sorry. I'm sorry, y'all. think what she was trying to say is she a lot of women, you know, especially on like social media and stuff, are looking for like the finished product and don't want to be with someone who's still building. Yeah, you know that's stay low and build. Who wants that? That's what you may be saying. and Right. but what i'm saying is you should be with a builder you know what i mean and builder i think especially with someone with good projection i think you should like if someone's in their residency okay yeah they're not making mills but they will make thousands by this time yeah your ladies ladies are not looking for bob the builder anymore unfortunately
00:07:21
Speaker
I just have to say this part. ti yeah Motion and projectile fields. um I feel... Oh, sorry, go ahead. we We're going to wait for a long time for a camera. Actually, LOL, I
Challenges for Black Women in Medicine
00:07:33
Speaker
hope that doesn't happen, y'all.
00:07:34
Speaker
I hope that doesn't happen. Those are not my views. I'm just joking. yeah i Like, yes, the experience is real, but I think it's really hard...
00:07:47
Speaker
I think it's really hard to have pity, right? From the perspective of a black woman in this space. Like, yes, I understand that it is difficult on all of us in terms of training.
00:08:00
Speaker
you know, trying to find love, trying to find time to be with, you know, anybody and kind of share your life and somebody that's going to like understand about how much, you know, this life sort of demands from you, especially if you pick a specialty that like is, you know, not our easy specialties, right? Like that that's completely understandable. I think it is hard to be a resident. It is hard to be a resident of color. You can go down and kind of separate it in in all those little different folders. but I think it's very hard as a black woman ah resident to, to sort of have like, Oh, like, Oh my God. Like it must be hard for black men too, because I just know how much harder it is for black women. You know i'm saying? Like how we're all saying, like there's a bunch of, there's, there's, you know, usually less men in the class they become desirable.
00:08:53
Speaker
They, uh, can usually have their pick of the litter. Right. um Yeah. And, you know, no one really thinks anything of it, which is like, I'm not going to say like, that's sort of like a hate the player. Don't like, don't hate the player, hate the game type of situation. Like it's not their fault that high commodity. Right.
00:09:16
Speaker
But I think it's really hard to say that to an audience of black women who kind of don't necessarily get that same response. Like, Girls or whoever will say that, you know, a man is, ooh, he a doctor.
00:09:30
Speaker
Right? That's that's that's a come up. Right. I have never. And a woman would know to go with the come up. You know what mean? You know? I have never in my life heard a man say, she a physician and that means something.
00:09:49
Speaker
yeah all all it All it says is big money. And that's so hard to hear. I don't want to hear a man call me big money. I really don't. I don't want to have the biggest money, please. You know, I don't want to hear that. But but other than that, like, i don't...
00:10:06
Speaker
Like, it's, I don't know if it's really necessarily as, like, ah
Finding Partners in Medicine
00:10:11
Speaker
like a pick-up point or ah or as a desirable quality. Like, yes, it is so amazing that we've made this accomplishment, but I don't think we get the same sort of, oh, I'm, like, so proud of you. And this is such a ah good its a gary milestone. Yeah. It's think it's intimidating. And it takes the right...
00:10:29
Speaker
man to not be intimidated in my opinion um like outside of medicine right like i think you have as a black woman in medicine who is going to be a high earner you have either you find another doctor which is also hard or you have to go to another career where being a doctor is not intimidated you have to like find your match almost so That's why I tell all you know my black ladies medicine go for the engineers, go to those NSBE conferences and find somebody. like I'm being so real. like Engineering is where it's at in the black male space. They're not intimidated. they You can have a conversation with them about anything and they'll understand it because that's how engineers brain kind of works. They're not intimidated by a doctor. They have free time on the weekend to clean the house. They have free time to cook.
00:11:18
Speaker
um They take call sometimes like with the plant stuff, but it's not anything real, but they understand what call is. You don't really have to break things down too much. So I think when in doubt, set your bumble to find an engineer.
00:11:31
Speaker
And there's a lot of black men in engineering. Like they're not really lacking there. um Engineering or IT t is where it's at. that's That's my tidbit here. Maybe I started a dating service, you guys.
00:11:44
Speaker
um I hope you're taking that. In fact, they should be doing a crossover at AMEC, you know, one day where everyone can just, you know, i'll be thrown there.
00:11:58
Speaker
um But yeah, I think it's really hard. um i think it's very difficult to understand that a oh any woman wouldn't want to be with the man who's who's like building as like a resident physician, even though it's like hard, like, oh, do i want to build up a man? Do i want to do this? But like, you can see like the clear line is he's not working at Popeye's, you know, he's like a resident, you know what i mean?
Complexities in Medical Professional Relationships
00:12:20
Speaker
So most women with common sense would go for that. So i think it's just, I think maybe his criteria is a little strict, you know, I don't really know he's looking on his side or what, you know, other people are looking for, but I'm sure it's hard for everybody. So I don't discount that.
00:12:38
Speaker
Yes, it's hot. It's hot. It's hot. But, you know, I think it's just really difficult. It's really difficult for me to be like, it's so hard for y'all. Yeah. Because i I know how hard it is for us.
00:12:50
Speaker
Yeah. But that's not to discount. This is not the lack of love Olympics. It really isn't. We all need love. thanks cash Valentine's Day in four days. So everyone needs love Two things can be true.
00:13:05
Speaker
i i mean, you know, i actually also wonder how many of them are really intentionally creating that time for dating versus, ah, I'm just trying to get into trying to finish residency. I'm going to try to finish residency at 40.
00:13:18
Speaker
And then, Then I'm going to have time for everything else. Right. I will say this story. So my mom has been trying to set up this he monk attending.
00:13:31
Speaker
I won't say what city, state, whatever, but he's Nigerian. He's a little bit older, like upper thirties and he's he She has tried to set him up with other doctors as well as um like psychologists and many you know African girls around the country.
00:13:53
Speaker
And he ghosts. He doesn't respond back. he lot of jesus He will talk to him FaceTime once and say, oh, move here. And then everyone's like, yeah, to move. And then ghost. So it's like,
00:14:08
Speaker
People are setting you up with eligible women. Yeah, women. And you're not doing your part either. So also as a black man with the privilege, you have to do your part. You know what I mean? You have to, you can't be too busy for your partner, your potential partner. You have to put in work too. It's not, oh, I'm just gonna, you know, blindly follow. You have to actually respond, you know? So that's also a hint for the black men, so.
00:14:38
Speaker
that's ah And that's why I don't even say too much because I know me. I get on that Hinge app. They annoy me and I turn it off. That's why don't even be upset.
00:14:49
Speaker
I get it. It's annoying. Exactly. Exactly. so I wonder if there's an app for medical professionals.
AI and Medicine: Can It Replace Doctors?
00:14:58
Speaker
That's what we need. They're always trying to make one, but it never like gets off the ground. You know what I mean? Maybe we'll make one and we'll get rich and then we'll be the big ballers.
00:15:07
Speaker
the provider Yeah, like just med slash engineer, like med ed, like ed. Yeah, I'm sure if you find your engineer, you can make the app. yeah Speaking of engineering.
00:15:21
Speaker
worst engineering.
00:15:26
Speaker
Elon! I mean, speaking of being really trapped, should I say, okay, let's find a better word, y'all. up Talking about this this journey in medicine, this forever journey in medicine, ah mr Elon Musk,
00:15:44
Speaker
made ah a few remarks, a few statements, including that in the next three years, AI is not going to augment, um is not going to enhance or improve, but rather replace the need for surgeons.
00:16:02
Speaker
Hey, that's bolder. I wish. My hands hurt. I'm over it. Go ahead and replace me. I dare you. Do it.
00:16:14
Speaker
Like, I just, I'm sorry. Keep going your thoughts. I have quite the quiet audience, right? We have two brilliant surgeons here. So are we getting replaced or what? la lie No one wants AI to be delivering their baby.
00:16:34
Speaker
Nobody wants AI to fix their prolapse. Nobody wants AI to discuss their menopause. no one wants ai treating their hot flashes, you know, like that's just not going to happen. There's still a personal side to medicine that people need. i think AI will definitely help progress medicine for sure. it already has, you know, like there's open evidence and like all these other like great, um, like note writing apps and stuff like that. That's really helping out physicians. But I don't think there's a single patient in my specialty that's going to be consulting AI. Um,
00:17:11
Speaker
for anything. um So there's that. Yeah, I'm gonna super echo. I mean, the thing is, right, like, obviously medicine is very different now than it used to be, right? There's always going to be new innovations, there's always gonna be a lot of things to learn. But the thing that separates medicine from other STEM fields is the human humanistic component. Like, that's literally the difference, in my opinion, right? like we do all the things we do because we find it interesting, but we like, like people and we want to help people. That is quite literally the point.
00:17:50
Speaker
So I think it's really difficult to say that it's just going to go away completely. yeah, You know, you also have to think that most of America, which is where we all are, like, they're not, you know, on the cutting edge of technology. Like, that's not most people in America. Yeah. You know?
00:18:13
Speaker
Yeah. Literally. they They actually are afraid of things like that. Right? And, like, it freaks them out even when you bring up, oh, I'm going to do robotic surgery on you. What do you mean by that? Right. You're going to like, what? Like, what is that What does that mean? Right. So like for you to say that you're going to completely take a doctor out of the equation seems ill-advised. You need somebody to be able to break it down. That's what separates you know good doctors from great. Yes, anybody can learn and train and figure out how to do things in their specialty, but if you can explain your specialty in a way that breaks it down for a family and it's any family that you can do that for, that's what makes you a great doctor and a great physician. Yeah. I don't think it'll ever be a time where you don't need that intermediary between the science for medicine for it to work. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I think we actually forget how personal medicine can be.
00:19:10
Speaker
Just being in a room and just just experiencing people having to urinary, past gas, past bowel movement, whatever, all of that.
00:19:21
Speaker
that's just That's just how human and personal medicine, nursing, healthcare care can really be. And I'm not trying to experience that with um something in the whatever verse that you want to call
Global Healthcare Challenges
00:19:34
Speaker
it.
00:19:34
Speaker
So I think it's just interesting, right? Like thinking back, even just this week, I speaking to somebody who was in a motor vehicle accident. um But long story short, she was having bleeding and she told me,
00:19:46
Speaker
um I told her, well, we're going to do an EGD for you. And she goes, please, um because of the report that we had already created, she goes, as was on my way out, please, could you just let them know that I've had a history of sexual trauma and a bite blood triggers me? And i feel like, as you were saying to Misa, these are the nuances of medicine. These are things that really separate um just regurgitating information to actually the human connection that you make. when you place the healing hand in someone. So I find it quite insulting.
00:20:21
Speaker
um Although i am very embracing of technology. um It is, I think it's just quite, it's it's just quite baffling and bold, i would say bold, as I said in the beginning. There's also the legality of it all, right? Especially living America, or everyone's looking gift for someone to sue.
00:20:41
Speaker
Who are you gonna sue? Who's going to take accountability if something goes wrong? Because it it can go. It'll still be us. It'll still be us. That's the thing. You can't remove us from that equation. so Yeah. You got to get the money from somewhere.
00:20:59
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, just to like you know bring up another like personal point, like I just got home because I spent a lot of time consenting this family, right? But I think...
00:21:12
Speaker
The reason it took so long was this patient had a medical complication before and they're non-English speaking. right So yeah, it was a simple procedure, but like they have a lot of questions. right And I think an AI model wouldn't have even... one i I got a translator and made sure they really understood and everything. But i don't think ah an AI would have been able to really kind of understand the crux of all their questions, which was something's gone wrong before.
00:21:48
Speaker
Like, what are you doing? How can we help her? And actually understand that. Like, they're not going to be able to kind of pick out the little, you know, idiosyncrasies of, you know, just different cultures and and all that other stuff, which sometimes is difficult for us to do as humans, right? And we're human. Right. So imagine how difficult it must be for a machine to attempt to learn the human condition, right? When as humans, we mess that up.
00:22:13
Speaker
So i don't I don't know if you'll ever completely take us out of it, to be completely honest. Yeah, I mean it's i think it'll just be like all there all the tools in our toolbox, we could we could pick up if we need, but I feel like replacing is a bit of an overstrutch.
00:22:33
Speaker
Right. They tried it. They can't do it. And they know it. So. Elon's never been to medical school. So he doesn't know what it entails, unfortunately. Yeah. I mean. Yeah. but I've never been to medical school.
00:22:47
Speaker
No. Yeah. And I mean, that's the thing, right? Like, I don't think anybody, unless you're like, you've been around doctors your whole life, truly understands like all the aspects that go into medical school.
00:23:01
Speaker
I can be super frank in telling you that I had no idea truly what it meant to go through medical school and, you know, go through training. There is no way to know until you're there. There's just so many other like little things that we do on this journey. Like,
00:23:20
Speaker
the whole act of doing step one through three, right? Like, it's just so crazy to think about. I was just talking to one of my attendees and even now, like doing your boards, like once you actually finish your training and the whole act of going through oral boards and everything else, like we do so much to get through this training that There is a difference. I'm sorry. Like you have somebody that's dedicating years of their life to one task or trying to be good at one thing or one field.
00:23:56
Speaker
You cannot replace that just by, I don't know, teaching a set of data points to do the same thing. Yeah. And then also I saw this Instagram post that like when chat GPT or whoever doesn't know something, it lies. It never says, i don't know. Like it never just says like that doesn't exist or so it always just lies. Like it just adds a bunch of fluff and it gives you this big paragraph and it's full of nothing. So like I was trying to use
00:24:27
Speaker
chat GPT to like maybe come up with some like research ideas for, you know, my resident project. And so i just put something general, like research ideas for OB-GYN resident. And it like listed a bunch of stuff, wrote an abstract, did everything. But then we actually like look at it.
00:24:43
Speaker
It doesn't make any sense. Like it's not a question. There's no answer. It's not something that needs to be hypothesized. Like it's already like a known fact, like from ACOG. Like there's no, there's nothing there. It's just regurgitating information that it's found from other information. It's not, if it doesn't know, it's not generating any new information.
00:25:04
Speaker
ideas Maybe I need to buy the plus. Maybe that's what i need to do. I don't know. But it wasn't... know Yeah, it wasn't, like, any thought to it. it was I was just like, this is something that, you know, M3, you know, could, like, generate and, like, figure it out. Like, it's on the shelf. you know I mean? Like, there's no question here. know what I mean? So um I feel like that's also something, too, to, like, beware of, like, with AI. Yeah, the kids are using Wikipedia. Not anymore.
00:25:35
Speaker
Gone are those days.
00:25:39
Speaker
Go ahead, Tanisha. I know. I cut you off. ahead. Sorry. That's okay. I was just going to say that it's so interesting now because even prior to studying medical school, I felt like I heard a lot of people discouraging me against radiology. I mean, not that was even interested, but you know how people just give you your opinion freely. umre Like, yeah, definitely don't do radiology. um You're going to get a job.
00:26:04
Speaker
It's going to be automated, all these things, and still, we still need radiologists today, y'all. So... You need clinical context, too. like That's why radiology does like either a year of internal medicine or a year of surgery or year of a T.Y., because you have to understand clinical context to interpret an image. like If someone comes in with like these hazy opacities on chest X-ray... and they have elevated blood pressures, um and they have protein in their urine in their OB be patient, you're more likely going to read that more as pulmonary edema versus atelectasis or something like that. like You're going to have more of a stronger opinion um to match the clinical description. So um AI could never. so
00:26:51
Speaker
that's i relatelimically What if I mean what if the government I mean hypothetically speaking The government just compensated all of us And said hey We're just going to erase medicine altogether Here's your Here's your 10 million dollar settlement That's fine 10 million to cancel it that's fine I'll still be an advocate um And that's okay to go to a country that needs me And then you can cancel my student loans while I'm at it Cancel that okay Oh yeah cancel it that's fine and don't have to work it's fine You know, in, sorry, in honor of stopping things, I'm going to bring up this new topic by saying Nigeria, stop.
00:27:42
Speaker
What a transition. Nigeria, stop! That is quite literally one of the funniest videos I've ever seen on that app. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. Anyways, for those of you that don't know, that's a TikTok that relates to the story of Anthony Joshua's car accident in Nigeria. Okay?
00:28:06
Speaker
And how there was a lack of EMS response and, you know, just, you know, kind of how health infrastructure is very different in the U.S. versus, I'll say specifically, a West African context, but in general, like, you know, different places in the world. And I think the conversation around Anthony Joshua and, you know, his lack of being able to be transported by EMS is,
00:28:33
Speaker
and just like how health infrastructure works in different countries, I think was really kind of important. And I don't think people were really aware of the fact that those sort of systems don't exist. And even here in America, it took a while for those things to exist. And that's just like not a history that a lot of people have like a good grasp of. I mean,
00:28:55
Speaker
Yes, without making it into a joke about that little video that I saw. um I guess what was your guys' is thoughts on the initial, you know, incident and then in general kind of the conversations that were being had on social media around kind of health infrastructure and, you know, everything else?
00:29:15
Speaker
It's honestly really sad that, like, even when I was – I'm Nigerian-American, right? i was born here. um I've even heard like as a child, like the one of the things that they talk about Nigeria is like healthcare issues. Like when my grandfather has like a health condition, it's like moving high water just to get things going. Like you have to have like a lot of privilege in Nigeria, same way with the U S to have a lot of privilege, but I feel like in Nigeria is like obviously way worse where you have to have a lot of privilege to get basic necessities. um
00:29:49
Speaker
And I said this on the last podcast, um, podcasts Like my mom's a nurse practitioner. My dad's a doctor. My aunt's a nurse practitioner. Like we're a very like health literate family and it's still like moving mountains to get basic care um for the people back home. um So it's really unfortunate. And like I said in the last podcast too, like as there are a lot of Nigerian Americans who are physicians um and hopefully we can use our training that we have here in the United States to help our people back home and some way or fashion and that's something that as I'm progressing in my training like really looking forward to um just getting more involved in um international health care specifically like health care in Nigeria in some way or fashion I don't know what that's going to be honestly um I'm pretty I'm not that informed but it's something that I'm working on so yeah i agree there's no mtally y'all
00:30:46
Speaker
It's money talks or nothing. Entala what? You have to pay to be seen, my dear. You have to pay up front to get your registration, to get your labs drawn, to get blood products, to get your oxygen. You have to pay for everything.
00:31:03
Speaker
Everything. Everything. yeah i don't know. I remember my dad got sick in Sierra Leone, i don't know, a couple of times. And there was literally no oxygen.
00:31:16
Speaker
Like in the country. Like not not like it's at a different hospital. They were like, we need to go to Ghana or Nigeria for it. What? What? Another country sent me Oh, okay. Well, i guess you got to stay healthy. um Very interesting. Not another country. No, like it was serious.
00:31:39
Speaker
Like that' three I'm pretty sure he actually did go somewhere else. If I'm not mistaken. You're actually being for real right now. I'm being so serious. Right. And like people are talking about EMS.
00:31:53
Speaker
Okay. You get to the hospital. There's nothing there. Like that's what other countries are dealing with. And I think. It's just so interesting to sort of see the global lens on that, that people are like, oh my God, like what's happening? I'm like, yes, this is this is what other countries are dealing with.
00:32:10
Speaker
you mean This is what other countries and people are having to sort of navigate. And it is not at all like other European countries that we know where there's universal healthcare. It is very much sort so payer based and people do not have money and people actually die because of it, right?
00:32:32
Speaker
So I hope it shed a light. I hope it you know makes some people move and shake some things in these countries. um Again, i also have aspirations like to maybe to try to do something back in Sierra Leone. I mean, just I think it would be lovely for us to have oxygen on demand.
00:32:51
Speaker
You know, I think that would be a good start. Yeah. this okay So, you know. Yeah, that's tough. Baby steps. That's tough. Yeah, my my uncle actually passed away from lack of oxygen.
Exploring Global Healthcare Systems
00:33:04
Speaker
He, yeah, so he's asthmatic. He went into an asthma attack. um And it was kind of a situation where I still made it to the hospital. um He didn't have an inhaler. There was no oxygen. There was just nothing.
00:33:18
Speaker
and So, I mean, i think, I think like this situation has made me think a lot about global health just generally. Because even though we talk about the systems that are lacking, it makes me wonder what is it that we can do within the context of those systems, right? It would be great to just reproduce everything that we have here and take it there.
00:33:45
Speaker
But realistically speaking, i mean, that may not be a February or March outcome. So i was, I mean, I was even thinking, What if they even had like a stub to bleed kind of training, something like that? Just like where a driver or someone like that, especially someone who's hired on the road, these roads are very dangerous. This is not new. a lot of people have lost their lives for one reason or another. mean, there's like if there are smaller, smaller policy policies implemented to
00:34:21
Speaker
For example, mandate and stuff to bleed training case something like that were to happen that way. So I can quickly apply its etiquette and that could that could be a difference between you know saving saving lives or not.
00:34:34
Speaker
So it just made me think about just global health in general, because the world is the world operates differently, different countries operate differently. And sometimes the way in which we experience healthcare care here is cannot necessarily be translated, maybe not immediately, not saying it's impossible, but maybe not right now.
00:34:52
Speaker
But how how how it makes me question like about like the little steps we can take today in our own little ways to make a change globally. So I just wanted echo what you and Tim Labe said, essentially. Yeah, I think that's a really good point, Shanatha. And i think it also kind of speaks to like the history of like the whole EMS service in America too, right? like It was very much so grassroots. um They talked on the last episode about Freedom House and how, i don't know, if any of you watched The Pit, they kind of discussed this a little bit as well, but
00:35:32
Speaker
how the EMS system in America kind of was based on the system of the Freedom House, how there were um like basically ah black drivers in Pittsburgh, and they were kind of the first set of drivers that would take people from like medical emergencies to the hospital, um just because the transportation at first was very privatized, kind of like we're talking about.
00:35:56
Speaker
and it needed to be more equitable and accessible to people. So, I mean, with that, you have to have a very much so community spirit. You have to care about others. And I think the problem in, least I can say this about Sierra Leone, is that people can be very greedy and they do not spread the resources how they should be, right? Everybody is coming from a very much so scarcity mindset. And so when people have the opportunity to have resources, they hoard them, right?
00:36:27
Speaker
And then nobody gets anything, right? You have three people that get a bunch of stuff, they squander it, and then the the resources are gone. um So I think a lot of it comes from that and that even if we do get resources and help, it is then not distributed in a way that's beneficial to most people. So don't know, you have to have a mentality mindset change as well.
00:36:54
Speaker
Sure. And speaking of, you know, other healthcare inequities, um on the last podcast, we talked about Dr.
Black Maternal Mortality: Systemic Issues and Solutions
00:37:03
Speaker
Janelle Greensmith. um She was a certified nursing midwife, as well as a DNP, which is a doctor of nursing practice. she was based in South Carolina. And on a like late December of 2025, she was um pregnant with her first pregnancy and developed severe preeclampsia and delivered two weeks earlier than expected management for severe preeclampsia. Usually you deliver at 34 weeks and I think she delivered at um, 32 weeks just due to the decompensation of her preeclampsia. Um, so she got a C-section because of that.
00:37:39
Speaker
And then after the delivery, um, everything was fine. And then she had a surgical complication where her incision, um, broke open and then she required emergency surgery. and then after that, she had a decompensation um following that. And then early January, unfortunately, she passed away um due to the complications related to childbirth. And, you know, as we've talked about many times on this podcast, and I think it never hurts to talk about it more because like you never know who's going to listen and who's, you know, the first time just kind of like reiterating and things like that. Um,
00:38:18
Speaker
Black maternal mortality, first maternal mortality in general in the U.S. is scary. And then Black maternal mortality is even scarier. The statistics are crazy. Three to four times more likely to die in childbirth. And her passing away kind of signifies how education alone does not save the Black woman from passing away um from...
00:38:43
Speaker
maternal related complications like you know who else would know more she's ah nursing midwife she advocates for patients on a daily basis she has a doctorate um in nursing practice like you would think that you know oh wow you know like she knows a lot you can't you can't fool her you know what you can't play about her and still unfortunately she succumbed to um the sequelae of preeclampsia, which is one of the more um common reasons for morbidity mortality in the pregnancy space and specifically in black women as well. um So I just kind of wanted to, you know, hear you guys' as thoughts and then also just, you know, just talk about it more and, you know, um just see like your perspectives on things.
00:39:34
Speaker
Her sister mentioned that her worst fear happened and that was so tragic. As you said, Dumebi, this is someone whose livelihood was was just based on advocating for women like her and really ensuring that they have a successful birth story. So was very unfortunate that she had to experience this and may her soul may her soul rest in peace.
00:39:59
Speaker
I mean, it's just such a it's just such a baffling topic for me, because I mean, especially even with this podcast alone, this is not certainly not the first time we've talked about on Black maternal mortality. um It's a thing that's very, very prevalent in the United States.
00:40:16
Speaker
And it just begs the question, right, after every single incident, why why is there this big disparity, this gap?
00:40:27
Speaker
And that's that's That's really where the money is. Why? are we Are we all going to Canada? Are we going to Canada to go have our babies? is that what's going to happen? right Because, I mean, personally, it's it's so so it's so scary, the statistics, what they are for for everyone else. It's like one thing if it's the same statistic for every woman, but it's not.
00:40:50
Speaker
And there's a lot of data that shows that it's not. So it's scary.
00:40:57
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think I've spoken on the podcast before about how I've personally been like around very scary moments around like black maternal morbidity and mortality. um And I think it's baffling every time.
00:41:17
Speaker
It literally is baffling every time. You're just like, All of these women, they're only like really unifying factors that they're black women, but they're like from different walks of life, different education levels. And, you know, as someone that hasn't had a child yet, like it is very scary, right? Right.
00:41:36
Speaker
To think, like, there's nothing i could do to, like, really protect myself from this. And it's, like, you can read as much as you want. We literally, everyone on this call has been through an OB b rotation. Do maybe you more than us. Right. And it's still it's still scary. I'm sure you're still scared.
00:41:58
Speaker
Right? Like, it just... it it almost feels like a losing battle. Like what do we do to really change it? We've talked about it. We've given it a name. It has it that those three words are in the public consciousness, I think now. Right.
00:42:14
Speaker
And it still isn't changing. Like we said, this lady literally does this for a living, right? Who who best to advocate? Who best to know, okay, I need advocates around me. I'm sure everybody was doing their literal level best and did not make a difference.
00:42:33
Speaker
I don't even know. I just remember, like i was in the I think I was in the or and there was everybody around me was talking about it. I already knew about it, right? But you have conversations happening amongst not that all the people that brought it up to me actually were not black. They were all white people talking about this lady, right?
00:42:53
Speaker
And I think even though it's on everybody's like consciousness, like there's still a disconnect, right? And like with her you have preeclampsia. There's a lot of different things that people could say, like, is it is it epigenetics playing into this, right? That we kind of just are like becoming more predisposed to these conditions.
00:43:11
Speaker
Is it the fact that you know our pain isn't being heard or we're not being listened to? Is it a combination? Like, what is going on? I don't think anybody can really fully pinpoint it. But what I can say is as...
00:43:22
Speaker
somebody who's in this group who plans to be you know mother someday it's still scary like what do you what do you get what do you give me can hear this all day but like what are we doing about it right i don't know that's romantic i mean it's like where do we go from here because this is not new this is this is not a new story at this point it's a different name different person and as you can see with this one i mean the actually a person in the profession, not only in the profession and advocate in the profession.
00:43:55
Speaker
Right. And I think a point that I want to drive home is that no specialty is rarely any specialty in the hospital that is immune from assessing and treating preeclampsia. For instance, when the preeclampsia gets really bad and they need to be on a drip and they had a C-section, they're going to the SICU. The SICU needs to know how to manage preeclampsia. If you are in neurology and it's a persistent headache that's not going away and we're evaluating for press,
00:44:24
Speaker
you're involved in preeclampsia. If she has like some occipital, focal, whatever, and that's causing her to have like papilledema and blurry vision, optho, you're not involved in preeclampsia. Like there's rarely, cause it's a systemic issue. Like if her liver ruptures from the right upper quadrant pain, like hepatology, you're not involved. You know what i mean? Like it's very rare for someone to not,
00:44:48
Speaker
like to not come across preeclampsia or you know, the sequelae of preeclampsia. So for instance, like if she had like this raging surgical site infection from the C-section or she got endometriitis from the C-section and she was fevering through Zosin, ID, you're not involved in preeclampsia. Like that's just kind of how it works. I think when you're on your clerkship,
00:45:10
Speaker
the first thing you should be learning on OB is the signs and symptoms of preeclampsia and the criteria for preeclampsia. If you were my, you know, my med student and at the end of the rotation, you don't know what preeclampsia is. I'm scared because that is the point that should be driven home. Like preeclampsia has a very strict diagnosis. And of course, some things quack like a duck and it's actually a goose. Some things are not as obvious. You know what I mean? Like I get it but If common things are common and you miss that as an ED provider, any type of provider, psych, I don't care who you are, rheumatology, and you miss preeclampsia, you're not doing us a big favor. You know what I mean? So do your part too. Just because they're pregnant doesn't mean you're not involved.
00:45:55
Speaker
um And, you know, help us the fight. Like OBGYNs can't do it alone. Family medicine can't do it alone. These nursing midwives can't do it alone. Like we need the whole hospital have like this concerted effort um to help tackle this problem. So.
00:46:16
Speaker
Anything else you guys can add at all? I think that was well said. Okay. All right. Thank you so much, you guys, for tuning into Unscripted. Be sure to tune in to our future conversations that we'll be having here on SMA Presents The Lounge.
00:46:31
Speaker
Bye, guys. Have a good evening. Bye, guys. Thank you. Bye.