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Unscripted: Where Were We?
45 Plays8 days ago
Unscripted is Back! Join our hosts as they get into the details surrounding the fallout of the Diddy trial, Halle Bailey & DDG's latest co-parenting woe's, and how our hosts are embracing their new positions! Get cozy because this conversation is one you don't want to miss.
To share your thoughts on our discussion of if you have any questions to ask our hosts, email podcast@snma.org for a chance to be featured on the show!
Disclaimer: The opinions and views expressed on our podcast do not reflect the official stance of the Student National Medical Association.
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Transcript
Introduction to Unscripted Series
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, hello, welcome to Unscripted, a series where we take our most-hailed run-the-list conversations a step further. Our goal for each episode is to uncover our personal takes, ah previously discussed topics, while highlighting diverse viewpoints that may be representative of our listeners.
00:00:15
Speaker
So sit back, relax, and get your tea ready as we, your hosts, take you through our thoughts on some very, very...
Meet the Hosts: Chansa, Dumebi, and Samiza
00:00:35
Speaker
My name is Chansa. I'm now a fourth year medical student at the University of Houston.
00:00:44
Speaker
um I am Dumebi. I'm now a second year resident in obstetrics and gynecology. And last but not least, guys, I'm Samiza. I'm now a first year resident in general surgery. Yay! I'm not in the world.
00:01:03
Speaker
Wonderful.
Diddy Trial: Charges and Verdicts
00:01:04
Speaker
Well, we have a lot of topics to cover today, guys. The first topic that we have on our docket here is about the Diddy trial. I know we've all heard about It's flooding our timeline, flooding our feed. And most recently, um there has been an update in the Diddy trial in terms of a verdict.
00:01:20
Speaker
um Just to give you guys a refresher, this all started back in September of 2024. Diddy was facing charges with the U.S. District Court. for racketeering, conspiracy, um sex trafficking by force, and then also transportation across state lines for prostitution.
00:01:37
Speaker
um The trial then began on May 5th of 2025, and they called 34 witnesses, um most famously being Cassie Ventura, which was his ex-girlfriend, Jane, Jane Doe, and other accusers, as well as Kid Cudi,
00:01:52
Speaker
um He ended up being acquitted um with three counts of racketeering conspiracy and sex trafficking charges. He was then convicted of two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution pertaining to Ventura and Jane, um which I guess my question for you guys is how do you guys feel about the verdict?
00:02:10
Speaker
How do you feel about... This has set a precedent for other celebrities in terms of how they'll be indicted in the future. um what were your feelings behind um the verdict?
00:02:21
Speaker
How do you feel the trial went? I want to hear it. Wait, could you repeat what he actually got convicted with? I like literally heard you, but I need to hear it again. He got convicted of two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution, but he was acquitted of the racketeering conspiracy and sex trafficking charges.
00:02:42
Speaker
With that in mind, very interesting work. I mean, i think it is.
00:02:51
Speaker
how do I put this? It is...
Challenges in Legal Proving: Racketeering and Sex Trafficking
00:02:55
Speaker
i think it was clear to me from a long time ago that if we're going this far with him actually going to court and going to trial and like being denied bail and going through all the rigmarole, that he was going to get charged with something. And I'm pretty sure I said this when we were on and on the Run the List episode.
00:03:14
Speaker
I just knew he wasn't going be tried truly to the full extent of the law. hate to use those words. But like... we all know like Diddy is a sick individual. Okay. And we all saw all the things that happened during the trial and we got a little bit more of a glimpse, but it it all comes back to what you can prove, you know, in a court of law. So I figured that he would not get all of his charges, but would get some. And I guess I don't, I don't know what the, has has there been a sentencing? I don't know. No, sentencing is set for October 3rd. Yeah.
00:03:53
Speaker
Yeah. So I guess we'll see like what happens then. What do you think, Shanasah? I mean, it's just sort of it's just a thing where I thought to myself when I saw i saw it on the news, I thought, oh my God, wow, a lawyer is getting paid a lot of money and one's probably going to get fired.
00:04:13
Speaker
Yeah. Well, but on a serious note, though, i think it was interesting because as i was reading i i was reading, I saw some point of views that just pointed poem pointed to the fact that he is probably overcharged because it's very difficult to prove ah the recraterian as well as the sex trafficking people.
00:04:34
Speaker
cases especially since with his first the first um woman here cassie and then jane those are both former partners um of diddy so it's very hard to prove that there's sex trafficking since he does have he had relationships with these these women unfortunately so just a case that really just blurs the line um and as amiza said it's
Legal Strategies and Jury Biases
00:05:00
Speaker
I think we we do know from the evidence we've seen online, though we are not the jury, that there were some misdeeds that were done by Diddy.
00:05:11
Speaker
um But now, in the eyes of the law, it's a different thing. So i think I just have mixed feelings overall because he got acquitted from the more serious charges, i.e. the wreck of terror and sex trafficking. Yeah.
00:05:28
Speaker
How you guys feel about it? Yeah, i some debates and stuff that seeing on TikTok was one, we all know, like you said, that Diddy is not, you know, it's proven, it's a known fact, it's not, I could say allegedly, but i don't know, he's not like, you know, he's,
00:05:48
Speaker
kind of sick. me but i have He's done some misdeeds. as you know he's misde Now, are the misdeeds sex trafficking versus domestic violence, trigger warning to everyone, versus domestic violence, versus a freak, right?
00:06:06
Speaker
And so what I saw some critiques about the trial was people thought that it made a really good case for all the misdoings that he's done, but is it racketeering? Is it, um you know, like, was it illegal to be a freak?
00:06:22
Speaker
That's basically what, like, the TikTok was talking about. And so some people had critiques saying that though he's a ah dirty dog of a man, right, what Was what he doing illegal?
00:06:36
Speaker
Exactly. and You know what i mean? So it's not like saying that what he did was illegal or not. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying, like, did the prosecution prove what he's doing? Were those charges?
00:06:46
Speaker
Like, some people are saying, is this more of a domestic violence case? Is this more of, like, um the thing he got convicted with just, like, the prostitution case versus the racketeering, you know, sex trafficking type of, like, Rico attempt type of thing.
00:07:02
Speaker
Other critique that I saw was... people thought that there was no way he was going to get charged, these charges, because of the way the jury was kind of, like, made up. It was made of up of eight men and four women.
00:07:18
Speaker
So they were thinking, like, well, he, the jury was um technically on his side just based on the demographic. And I don't know you guys were seeing on the news about how they threw out that one black male juror because of, like, the sketchy dealings and stuff like that.
00:07:33
Speaker
Um... So I don't know is I mean, I think jury has a big part, you know, in like verdict and things like that too. But I just want to know you guys' thoughts on, you guys think that it could have happened any the other way given the jury, given like the, like you said, like the immense amount of charges and like how they were weren't really able to, I guess the defense wasn't that strong to prove like those really tough charges.
00:08:02
Speaker
Yeah, I think it just depended on what the what the prosecutor was going for. i think if it if it were a case so against domestic violence, then we'd have a lot of evidence against that. But for the racketeering,
00:08:17
Speaker
you need to you need to show that it's an organized crime. You'd have to pinpoint other individuals that were involved um during an extended length of time. So I think it's just a matter of strategy and the defense definitely exploited the strategy in in the way that they built your case.
00:08:36
Speaker
um Unfortunately, unfortunately, yeah. yeah had no like that's sort of what i was saying like all the legal terms beyond the benefit of the doubt and full extent of the law like that's that's literally this is a master class in that right like yes you can have an opinion about what he did and we all have our own opinions you don't have to state it but but if you don't um
00:09:08
Speaker
If you're not able to prove your particular charge against a person, then this is what happens. And this happens every day. just that Diddy is happening on ah on a large stage. So it's not surprising to me whatsoever.
Societal Expectations and Victim Perception
00:09:22
Speaker
yep How do you guys feel about Cassidy being like the star witness. I don't know what the legal term is. Sorry guys, I don't have my JD. so i don't know of So I don't know any of this stuff.
00:09:39
Speaker
No MD dating. People were saying that Cassidy was not the best person to be like the star witness because, and this is like me quoting from TikToks.
00:09:51
Speaker
She wasn't like the perfect person victim, I guess, because she even said things in the trial of saying things in the trial, like I still have love for Diddy.
00:10:03
Speaker
i you know, like, and then like when she was like describing, like she was very honest with her feelings. I think people have to remember that not all victims are, there's no perfect victim.
00:10:14
Speaker
Like obviously she wasn't like, you know, kidnapped from her house or maybe she was, I don't know, but like she wasn't kidnapped from her house and, you know, So she had some elements of free will, but there's like a psychological component.
00:10:27
Speaker
And again, we don't know what type duress she was under either. um So I think people are saying that the evidence was weakened because Cassidy herself wasn't like the, like seemed like, I don't know how to say it, you know, seemed like, you know what mean?
00:10:45
Speaker
No, we get what you mean. Yeah, I feel like it's an old trope too. Like you have, i don't know, sort of like if you go back into history, like Rosa Parks technically, you know, not being like the first person, but it was another girl, like she's already skin a teen mom. Like it's,
00:11:02
Speaker
You pick like your perfect victim and people bring up this argument every time. Right. And there's a lot to say about whether or not you should say that, can say that about Cassie.
Legal, Ethical, and Moral Distinctions in Trials
00:11:13
Speaker
um But it's just a matter of like, again, the difference between like legality, ethics, and morality. right What's legal doesn't mean that it's necessarily right or moral or ethical.
00:11:30
Speaker
So yes, while he may like it may not have been deemed illegal what he did, does it still like is it still ethical, is it still moral what he did? right and whether or not it was legal, what happened between him and Cassie, was it ethical, was it moral, right? Like that, it's just that same sort of discussion, i think.
00:11:51
Speaker
And especially as a woman, i think Cassie's a woman of color, I believe she's like of mixed heritage. Like, you know, it's very easy to get discounted, right? Which again, it's hard to say. i didn't, I didn't watch the trial very closely. i didn't hear all the evidence. I don't know.
00:12:11
Speaker
what happened all the way. But what I will say is that it's women victims have to prove themselves above and beyond to really even get heard or not be silenced. And then, know, if there's even any sort of kink or chink in the armor, then becomes this whole, oh, see, this is why you don't believe women. This is why you don't believe people, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I think that whole argument of she's not the perfect victim is a very good example of that.
00:12:43
Speaker
For sure. Well said for sure, because I think that's something that was also used to discredit ah the case because they had mentioned that the women willingly wanted to participate in the freak offs and things of that nature.
00:12:58
Speaker
So I think what you're saying, Simiza, just really expands on the complexity of the case. um Even though they were in a relationship with this man, right, there's a psychological aspect as well.
00:13:10
Speaker
and and And I think that could have also influenced everything, definitely. And it's just unfortunate that, as we've seen several times in history, ah Women victims are oftentimes discredited and you just have to do a lot more to amplify your voice.
00:13:27
Speaker
um But yeah, I mean, it sounds like you've been doing your own JD part time, though, talking about the difference between. Yeah, come on. shut Shout out bioethics in undergrad.
00:13:44
Speaker
No, i love I love that intersection though. Like, i don't know. That was something that was always really interesting to me, like in college. Cause it's true, right? Like there are things that we do not think are very right nowadays that used to be legal.
00:14:00
Speaker
That's not, you know, that doesn't, that's not the, that's not the pinnacle of rightness, things being legal. It really is like you and your own moral compass. So that's definitely, once i once I figured that out and like figured out that just because something doesn't necessarily fit under the bill of law doesn't necessarily mean that it's inherently wrong.
00:14:25
Speaker
i was like, you got to look at the world with a little bit more gray, for sure. Mm-hmm.
Hallie Bailey and DDG Conflict: Custody and Leaked Messages
00:14:35
Speaker
So speaking of celebrities and legality and, you know, people doing things that may or may not be ethically or morally correct, but might not be illegal. Let's talk about this.
00:14:54
Speaker
I cannot. Let's get back on the topic of Hallie and Dee Dee Jean and the posting of intimate messages online. um So, you know, just to reintroduce everybody back to the topic, basically, Hallie, Hallie Bailey, what am I saying her name that? Hallie, yes, thank you. Hallie Bailey's um ae is, it's well known that she suffered with postpartum depression after having her son, Halo.
00:15:25
Speaker
And, um you know, since the time that he had been born, her and her baby's father, DDG, have since gone sour. So they're no longer together. There's been a lot of you know back and forth between the two of them on social media.
00:15:41
Speaker
And this all culminated with a more recent event where DDG basically suggested that in Hallie was keeping him away from his son and that she wasn't letting him see her. And it resulted in him posting their private messages um to one another. And um he basically, you know, put this out as he was putting out like court proceedings and Excuse me. And he said that Polly being with their son yeah poses, and and this is a quote, imminent emotional and psychological w risk to their son and she shouldn't be allowed to travel with him internationally.
00:16:20
Speaker
um i guess, you know, in terms of our conversations, clearly we're all trying to be MDJDs on this call today. i mean, on this recording today, like, I guess, first of all, what do you guys think about the fact that he basically leaked their private messages to the world?
00:16:36
Speaker
Do you think that there should be any sort of consequence for that? And I guess what's your take on the whole topic? Yeah, the consequence is no more halo, unfortunately. like That's the consequence.
00:16:48
Speaker
So my in my professional opinion, my resident professional opinion is, as an OBGYN resident, be careful with who you have children with. And that goes for men and women. I'm not saying both ways.
00:16:59
Speaker
But there's you know ah reason why there are societal norms, right? And there are there's a reason why society has some things in place, you know whether you agree with society or not.
00:17:13
Speaker
But You know, having a child with someone that you may or may not know to the fullest is a choice, right?
00:17:25
Speaker
And unfortunately, if the two cannot come together to co-parent effectively, only the child suffers. From the text messages that I saw, and then also I read actually like the court documents from both DDG's side and Hallie's side, it seems like it was a very tumultuous relationship that wasn't really built on a solid foundation because they you'll just met each other, they're both also pretty young as well.
00:17:51
Speaker
um So I think one, be careful who you have children with. Two, it seems like from... What i could gather, it seems like DDG was not always very nice to Halle, especially during the postpartum period.
Relationship Challenges and Postpartum Support
00:18:04
Speaker
I think sometimes when a man loves the idea of you and not the actual you, it leaves room for sometimes things like this where she's struggling during the postpartum period, but that's not how he met her.
00:18:18
Speaker
thus... he wasn't prepared to deal with that side of her, which is like the postpartum period, right? So she was obviously very depressed, very anxious. She acted out of a lot of, like, um from what I read from DDG said that she would just pop up to random places, that DDG was expected it to be. Like, she operated in a very anxious, depressed mentality.
00:18:39
Speaker
But I think also, like, from the man's perspective, I don't think he was ready to, he was ready for a baby, but i don't he was ready to deal with everything that came with the baby. So I think- When, you know, i think that's kind of sad in a way, but then also DDG pulling up to Hallie's house and taking a picture of her bed, like, you know, you know, like just like invading her private space. And then also like when she's trying to get into the car with her baby and then you drive off and, you know, chip her tooth, you know, very tumultuous relationship.
00:19:15
Speaker
And I think DDG is unfortunately suffering the consequences of his actions. um yeah And Hallie brought, he he took it to the internet.
00:19:26
Speaker
Hallie brought it to the court. like So Hallie never said anything on the internet. until was leaked right and she still hasn't said anything everything has been through leaked gossip sources here and there and the judge basically like proved that Hallie now has at least full custody from this standpoint so she's able to take him to Italy take it halo to Italy and all those other places and Hopefully, things get better in the future, you know, as, you know, the baby grows up and stuff like that. But I think DDG needs to wake up and realize you can't just air out the mother of your son's business and expect, like, I don't know who thought he was dealing with. He's dealing with Beyonce's protege, not no rink-a-dink on the street.
00:20:10
Speaker
So I think he didn't seem like he was dealing with.
00:20:14
Speaker
I mean, it's just really sad. I think you mentioned Halle brought to the core, Deej, you brought it online. I think regardless of what happened in your relationship, I think we just forget that we can just be kind to each other.
00:20:28
Speaker
Like mental health problems are real And even beyond mothers who have postpartum depression, by and large, a lot of women will have postpartum blues. ah Almost all women will have that in the first two weeks.
00:20:41
Speaker
So it's just such a big change, I think, big life change. I mean, arguably for both of them, but I think it's just really unnecessary to just bring those type of intimate and personal text messages online. Because for one, if you're even if you don't love this person anymore, but you're trying to co-parent, then What about the imminent risk you're putting the person in if they were to then have a, I don't know, suicidal attack or as certain as they if they were to become suicidal as a result of your actions?
00:21:14
Speaker
So i think my but this is like my problem with social media in general. like People just don't know what to keep to themselves and what to bring online. And we honestly don't need to have everything online.
00:21:26
Speaker
But that's my own little cup of tea here. Yeah. And I, you know, just to both of you, um both of your points, but, you know, do maybe I think you brought up an interesting dynamic of, okay, maybe you're ready for the partner, maybe you're ready for the baby, but you're not ready to deal with anything.
00:21:45
Speaker
issues or difficulties with the partner after having a baby. And, you know, I just wanted to read you guys a summary that came from Google about NIH articles discussing and postpartum depression and the partner's response, especially as it like relates to the impact on children.
Importance of Leaving Unhealthy Relationships
00:22:03
Speaker
um It's quoted as saying, a partner's poor handling of postpartum depression can significantly and negatively impact a child's development and well-being, leading to both short-term and long-term consequences.
00:22:16
Speaker
This impact stems from disruptions and parent in the parent-child relationship, increased exposure to parental conflict, and potential neglect or inadequate caregiving. So, you know, I think it doesn't just impact, you know, now or, you know, the past when these things happen. It's going to affect the future, right? So this is something to watch for, you know, in our own lives and, you know, the lives of people that we care about. And clearly you can see happening on a larger stage.
00:22:47
Speaker
But I think it's very true that people don't necessarily always think, you clearly about the situations that they're getting themselves into and the consequences. And I think that's especially true with motherhood and um like partner's reaction to motherhood and all the ups and downs it can bring for sure.
00:23:10
Speaker
And also, i agree with, you know, everything that you said, Samisa. And, like, I also want to say, like, I kind of applaud Hallie for getting herself out of situation that wasn't healthy. I think a lot of times as women and, like, for your kids – I mean, I don't have kids. I don't know.
00:23:26
Speaker
But, like, a lot of people stay in situations because, you know – And that's not my opinion. You know what mean? They have a child and they feel like, oh, like, I don't want them to be in a two-parent home or I don't want them to, you know, be in a broken home or not have a father and this or that.
00:23:46
Speaker
But I feel like You know, from what I could see online, like, DDG is not a bad... I would never say, like, oh, DDG is a bad dad. You know what I mean? I think he's a bad partner, but I don't necessarily think he's a bad dad.
00:24:00
Speaker
So I think maybe having two separate homes, at least, you know, for now, or whatever it shakes up to me, may actually be better for Halo because they can see, like, dad is happy in his element and mom is happy in her element.
00:24:12
Speaker
And there's no... forced, you know, to be together and like put up this facade for a child, you know what I mean? So I will say like if you are in a bad situation, think this is my postpartum visits with my patients, you know, when I saw the FOB, you know, in the delivery, I'm like, oh, this man is not anything.
00:24:30
Speaker
And I'll be like, you know, I'll like, if they say, you know, he's kind of whatever I put in their ear, was like, oh, he's not that great. You know mean? I like, from what I can see, he's not that great. You know, if they're asking me my opinion. So I applaud women who leave out of bad situations. And I know it's hard especially like having a one year old being still young things like, oh, my life is over or I have this baby. Who else is going to like me?
00:24:50
Speaker
So was like, how I love Hallie, you know what i mean? It may not be DDG and that's all right. So. That's a bar. I'm curious. How do they respond to you when you, you know, you say that? mean, if they ask me a question, I want to answer it. Like, if I see, like, you know, they bring up, like, I'm like, how are things going at home? I always bring it up because you want scream for, like, domestic violence and, like, you know, other things like that. So I always ask, how are things at home? And even if it's not domestic violence, if it's, like, domestic dispute, I'm like, you know, I was like, oh, he's not anything. I was like, I saw him in delivery. I remember he wasn't anything. Like, he's not all that, you know. just kind of say it like that.
00:25:25
Speaker
It's up to them and they want to take the advice. But no ICD code for it. Just my personal opinion. you tell i say Because I remember my OB b rotation just being there, women just screaming, and the guys just on your phone. some Just doing absolutely nothing.
00:25:41
Speaker
Just doing nothing. Like, something. Can you hold a waist? Can you can you like hold your or your a Yeah.
00:25:52
Speaker
But then there are some dads who are great, you know, and you know, they're almost too involved. It's like, they want to check the cervix too. They want to break the water. I'm like, whoa, boy. Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo. Okay. Okay. Whoa there.
00:26:06
Speaker
No, man, I think, yeah, I've, you know, it's crazy. Somebody was talking to me about that, like with their own like OB rotation. i didn't necessarily have that same, funnily on my, on my OB b rotation in third year, I did not see one vaginal birth.
00:26:28
Speaker
Now, how that happened, not super clear. Wait, hold How did that happen? No, I kept seeing C-sections. Like, literally the one time I was supposed to do it, it went to an emergency C-section. was like, well, guess I'm never going to see it.
00:26:46
Speaker
and No, but i i think it's I think it's very telling that this is a common experience that at least all of you have seen. um And I don't know, it it's always so sad to hear that women aren't being supported through something that is literally wrecking them physically, emotionally, and all the we's, every adverb in the world. in the world But and you just got to hope that you pick right and...
00:27:14
Speaker
the person that's next to you on that day, like, is going to, like, help you through that. but Right. yeah And I'm sure Holly is, you know, having those same sort of questions and, like, you know, thinking back, like, dang, did I pick right.
00:27:30
Speaker
So... That's deep, yo. I'm scared. Think about it. The placenta is made of like his genome, bro. So it's like, you have to think about, like is this worth getting preeclampsia over? Is this worth fetal growth restriction? Is this worth...
00:27:49
Speaker
like The closest days is the pregnancy. Like you have to really think about it. Like if he's not worth it, like if I wouldn't get gestational hypertension over his baby, then I'm not doing it.
00:27:59
Speaker
You know what mean? Like just say no. It's okay. So that's just it. We heard from the OVCYN. Just say no. Pregnancy to be risking your life for just to be like, oh, he's all right.
00:28:13
Speaker
You're not a surrogate. You know what I mean? You're not supposed to do this. if you don't want to do it, you don't have to. Like, Uh-uh, no way. Wouldn't be me
00:28:26
Speaker
me. That's scary. But I guess just speaking about us being the medical profession, um you know obviously i wanted to Gania your thoughts the AAMC's decision to eliminate DEI consideration as part of their criteria for assessing medical school performance.
Impact of DEI Policy Changes on Medical Education
00:28:46
Speaker
um As we know, the AMC serves a big role in the governing and i' i'd say just the entire medical school education.
00:28:58
Speaker
i wonder if you all have seen changes on your campus in this short time. um And if not, how do you think that's going to affect the future, ah future doctors and and the you know colleagues that we get to work with in this profession if we're already so slim?
00:29:17
Speaker
And these efforts to improve and enhance diversity are now pretty much restricted even more and obliterated, i mean, quite frankly, if we're to just hit the nail on the head.
00:29:33
Speaker
So, yeah, was curious to know your perspective.
00:29:40
Speaker
um I think it's going to have a long-lasting impact on the medical profession and the, um like, I guess the future of how medicine can look.
00:29:56
Speaker
um Because I think there's just something that is so,
00:30:02
Speaker
specific in this sort of like war on DEI or, you know, identity and, and all of these things. And I think as more and more legal um changes are made that sort of, you know, try to squeeze that out as much as possible.
00:30:22
Speaker
it just showed cases that like, it's going to be a really difficult road for somebody who's just starting out. Right. Like, and that's just the reality. Right. Like, okay, say for us, we're sort of like already in it.
00:30:35
Speaker
We sort of got like grandfathered in and like, we'll probably be okay. and Knock on wood, I'm gonna wood around me, but we'll probably be all right. But think to your pre-med self, think to your undergrad self. If you're not coming from like a lot of money,
00:30:52
Speaker
or like you know somebody or, I mean, it's not even really like, I mean, there's scholarships, but yeah, like just really think back to your pre-med self. This is a really big deterrent.
00:31:06
Speaker
Like there's many reasons why people should or should not get into medicine, but this is a really big deterrent for somebody who may genuinely be interested in medicine. Like I,
00:31:21
Speaker
won't be able to get money to pay for it, right? A par two, yeah. it's It's just real, like putting the caps, making sure that people can't get you know scholarships or help in other ways for things that, like the setbacks that we have as Black and Brown american or black and brown people living in America,
00:31:43
Speaker
is real that is just a fact right like it's not like and anybody's making it up so not having systems that sort of try to you know correct for that is is is daunting and i think less so for us maybe on this call but more so for like people that are younger than us so we got to figure out a way to help i don't know Yeah, I think it's really honestly disturbing what's going on right now. um I guess like to give context in my background, like i i feel like I come from a fairly privileged background. Like my dad's a physician, my mom's a nurse practitioner.
00:32:22
Speaker
um And I knew how I still like worked very hard to get where I was. People did not look like me in my med school class, but I still had at least financial support and like my dad's a physician, right? And I know how hard I worked to get where I am.
00:32:38
Speaker
So I can't imagine not having those systems in place for people who, for most black and brown people who do not have these systems in place. um I guess to also give context, like in my med school, we had,
00:32:52
Speaker
s and a a We had like STAR scholars, which was for black and brown, like med students, dental students, pharmacy students. We had critical mass gathering every year. We had, like, I remember I never had to pay to go to AMEC. Like my school always paid for us to go to AMEC and gave us food stipends on top of that because of how DEI conscious my school was because they knew like these are the reasons why our med students, our black and brown med students matriculate through the programs because of resources like this.
00:33:20
Speaker
So the fact that they're taking that away is honestly just setting – it's like you know when you reach – what did they say? Like you reach the target and they move the target back. That's consistently what these people do.
00:33:33
Speaker
You finally get a place where we're somewhat – I mean equality hasn't been achieved yet. But it's like every time we're closer to that, they move the goalpost. And I even say that to sense like, okay, like my dad – is a physician, but I also had, you know, my white counterparts in my med school who had lineage of physicians in this country. Me and my dad are like the only physicians in our family. And my dad's school is outside the U.S. So even if I look like I'm on the same playing field, if you look at my white counterpart, most likely I am not. There's always one step above.
00:34:07
Speaker
And I feel like by them removing, you know, like not making DEI a criteria or like judging med students based on how they're you know, like reparations for our society because essentially what it is,
00:34:20
Speaker
is just boggles my mind because the patients that I treat on a daily basis look like me. They, you know what I mean The patients that are in these safety net hospitals that med students and residents are serving on a daily basis look like me.
00:34:34
Speaker
So the fact that they're not recruiting people or at least retaining and people or like giving incentives to retain people that look like us is crazy because our patients are looking for people like us.
00:34:46
Speaker
So That's fair. That's fair. I actually just went, I mean, sidetrack where I went and I recently got a new PCP because of insurance changes. And I tried not to look the PCP up prior because, you know, i wanted to go in with an open mind and what have you.
00:35:02
Speaker
Long story short, when I left, I requested that I needed an African American physician. I mean, it's no offense, but I just feel more connected. I just feel like I could trust one.
00:35:13
Speaker
So, I mean, as you said, Dume B, it's really mind boggling that we were we ah we basically made a decision to not put any intention when it comes to not only recruiting, but also retaining um black and brown future physicians.
00:35:30
Speaker
I think what was interesting I saw is that AMC is still in some way and some ways acknowledging the need for, will I say equity.
00:35:43
Speaker
um they They have removed DEI by and large from their website and from their programming and resources and things of that nature. And I wonder if how effective the rebranding will be, i guess.
00:35:56
Speaker
Do you all think that they are still intentional about dr d i your DEI purpose and mission, even though it's not largely publicized?
00:36:10
Speaker
Or is that just a myth at this point?
00:36:15
Speaker
No, I don't think so because money talks and if the money's not where it is, then no. Like, what do you who's going to go to school for free? Like, who's going to, like, do this? but You know, like, that...
00:36:26
Speaker
it honestly kind of makes me mad because it's like they can say they want diversity and inclusion and people from different backgrounds and races. And, but if you don't put your money where your mouth is, then it means absolutely nothing. And they are a huge organization. It's not just like a rinketing organization, organization. This is like the organization. If they can't back with money and statements and talk and then removing all their DEI, then it doesn't mean anything to me. It's just, it's bunch of hogwash. You know what i mean?
00:36:52
Speaker
So no, I don't think they'll mean anything. So yeah. hear box I feel it i were baby No, but I mean. It's crazy.
00:37:03
Speaker
So obviously like we're all having like a very emotional response to it because I think whether or not, you know, you come from a financially privileged background or like educationally privileged background, we still have the not having the racial privilege, right? So that's just something that I think we can all say is a common experience between us.
00:37:27
Speaker
But if you look at it from a more objective standpoint, like I under so like i like i see why, because again, same thing, money talks, right? And they are at least partially federally funded, right? Right.
00:37:43
Speaker
So I understand why companies are doing it. Like if I use my, you know, just analytical brain, it's just that I had wished and I had hoped that some organization that is trying to train the future, that's like focused on turning the future doctors of America would want to uphold a mission that they've had for a long time, which is we're trying to broaden the diversity of of the American physician workforce.
00:38:16
Speaker
Like we can all say here, we've all been on rotation. We've all been in the hospitals now. Literally the only one always. Right? Like it's it it's very clear that even with the programs and with the support, like it's still a very minimal amount.
00:38:36
Speaker
Right? And that's just the truth. The truth is that like in spite of it getting better, it is not where it should be, right? So would like this, the stuff that you were doing before was barely helping. And now you're like not, you you've you've literally cut the floor out from everybody, right? And that's, it it's disheartening to hear.
00:39:02
Speaker
Not unthinkable, but disheartening. Yeah, it's disheartening because I even think about when I first started my pre-med journey, I didn't even get to shadow physician until i'd graduated.
00:39:14
Speaker
That was how bad it was, just being able to gain access. I had... I would email people and there's just no response. And you know, was funny just being on my rotation scene, just seeing our white counterparts put in the word for your kids.
00:39:32
Speaker
In fact, matter of fact, um I have an abstract that I worked on of which I'm not going to share the details, but there is freshman in college there is a fresh man in college on this thing.
00:39:46
Speaker
And i I just couldn't imagine, right, the kind of disparity, the kind of disparity that yields because I couldn't even get into an operating room, a clinic, anything just to observe how much more to contribute to scientific literature.
00:40:09
Speaker
It's, it's insane. Yeah, it's insane. The footing is not equal. And, you know, i not saying that, and I mean, I feel like as the organization, like WMC should, you know, has a, should have a stance on and making things more equitable for applicants of different, and I'm not just talking about like black and white. I'm talking about rural, like rural med students, like who's going to like supply the positions in those areas, as you know, like our LGBTQ, like there's just so many other parts of DEI, like religious minorities, all those different types of things that need to be taken into account.
00:40:46
Speaker
um Like, for instance, like one of my best friends, she's an OBGYN resident as well. And she wears a hijab. She's a Muslim. And the amount of patients that, you know, resonate with her because a lot of our Muslim patients, you know, who value modesty and stuff like that, want another, like are, you know, very happy to have a Muslim physician.
00:41:06
Speaker
So um I think... I think a lot of times people are just thinking about the surface black and white, but we're not thinking about DEI as like also inclusion, including people who were who were historically excluded.
00:41:20
Speaker
And I think that's kind of like the message that's getting lost. People are just like, oh, black people get in easier than Asian. Like that's not what it is. It's more about people who are marginally excluded in the past are now having a seat at the table and they're just like removing those chairs essentially, um which is not fair.
00:41:41
Speaker
Pulling out the rug. Yep. Let's see.
00:41:49
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like, it's, it, it, like you said, it goes beyond race, ethnicity, it's religion. It's like, again, people that are on the LGBTQ spectrum. It's people that are on the autism spectrum and everybody on the spectrum of neurodivergence. Like,
00:42:12
Speaker
It really is like not making space so that those people can have ah chance to look at the door, and i even a seat at the table. Look at the door, because that's what that is.
00:42:25
Speaker
And then you still have to scrounge and, you know, fight your way to the table, let alone get a seat. it's it's difficult, right? And like you know and then it make and makes sense why in the past we've had things like HBCUs, right? And why people still flock to places like Meharry, right?
00:42:45
Speaker
Because there that is that is the mission, right? When when it really was you know super separated, like this was what we had to do. right Yeah, it's disheartening. Yeah.
00:43:02
Speaker
Yeah, it's disheartening. And i i strongly believe irrespective of race, gender, what have you everyone should have equal opportunity. And this does exactly the the opposite, because we know the opportunity is not equal.
00:43:22
Speaker
and It's not anywhere close to equal.
00:43:29
Speaker
Well, well, well, well.
00:43:35
Speaker
In other things, given that it is July everyone's kind of in a new position right now with Samiza being a new intern, me being a new second year, Shanasia being a new fourth year.
Hosts Reflect on Residency and Medical Training
00:43:49
Speaker
I thought it would be great if we talked about just how things are going, you know, and advice. I mean, second year to first year, first year to fourth year med student and just kind of what we've been going through, like a little powwow, you know.
00:44:03
Speaker
i would say as a second year, I am getting used to the role of people asking me questions. Like, what am I supposed to do? Like, I remember like, because we have a new intern on Guyne, obviously.
00:44:17
Speaker
And, you know, she's asking me questions. And my first question is, why is she talking? Like, why is she asking me questions? You know what i mean? And I'm like, oh, wait, I've been here for a year. She's been here for a day. You know, it's a weird dynamic being, I mean, technically an OBGYN, like you're not a senior till 30 year, but it's different being like a mid-level resident. and i pay say I don't really know my place. i'm being And if I'm being honest, it's like, I don't know, like, I'm still supposed to be like the junior resident, listen to my chief, but then also there's like a med student, a sub-I and an intern asking me questions and relying on me for answers. So it's a very interesting dynamic.
00:44:56
Speaker
I'm going just say, shout out to my second year. She's not a kid. I buy that girl so much. That's my dog, though. like um No, but it's just actually ridiculous. Yeah.
00:45:17
Speaker
And, you know, obviously i'm in Gen 3rd, it's a notoriously hard residency. So ah I set myself up for very low expectations.
00:45:28
Speaker
And I don't actually think that this rotation that I started on is representative of, you know, how tough this residency is going to be. I think I'm on generally okay rotation.
00:45:44
Speaker
So honestly, i don't know. I'm feeling still a little anxious because I don't feel like this is real. Like my list is kind of small and, you know, we, we do have surgeries. I'm operating, which is insane. Like that often doesn't happen at a lot of places that the intern gets to operate.
00:45:59
Speaker
Yeah. Um, but. Like, i just I just feel like I've had but a couple days in the last like week or so where it did kind of turn up just a little bit.
00:46:11
Speaker
Just not too crazy, but definitely crazier than I needed it to be. And I'm like, oh, it's a little serious. You know what I'm saying? Right. Kind of real.
00:46:22
Speaker
Exactly. And, you know, EMRs are interesting. And I'm telling you, there's some stuff that you ain't never seen before. promise. The and the med student in context are two different contexts. When you sign that order, it does go through. yes It's not pending for the provider. You are the provider.
00:46:47
Speaker
Yeah, they there's no pending. I'd be checking. That's right. Hold up. Let me look at the dose. one more time. So it's just stuff like that. like you just And then obviously with that, you obviously we feel more responsible for everything, right?
00:47:03
Speaker
And you're just like, oh, it's me. like It's you. No, it's you. you know like this There's things where like,
00:47:15
Speaker
You, as a med student, like, you know, as a sub-ad, oh, you can say, I'm just a med student. Like, you really can. And, like, it is true. oh Like, there is a lot of shields of responsibility above you.
00:47:29
Speaker
This is the first one where it's really swiped away. Like, no. Like, honestly, when stuff happens bad in the hospital, the person on the lowest rung finds out first. Or first called.
00:47:41
Speaker
That's true. And half of the battle of this year, which again, I cannot believe I've only been doing this for two weeks exactly, is knowing when to not call for help and like trying to figure out stuff. yeah And when somebody needs, an adult needs be present.
00:48:01
Speaker
we don't need to I will say you will get to that point of clarity in January where you find out if I can't do it, then it's not normal. And once you reach that moment of clarity where it's like, oh, this is not normal, you're like, oh, I'm not just bad. This is just not the norm and I need to call somebody for help.
00:48:21
Speaker
And once I realized, I was so less hard on myself when I realized like I'm an intern. So things that are normal, I'm supposed to be relatively good at by January. So if it's not normal, then it's not then it's not me that's going to make it normal. I need to call somebody. And like I remember when I was...
00:48:38
Speaker
trying to induce somebody's labor and I went here trying to like put in someone's Foley balloon. And I'm like, why is this balloon not going? And I'm thinking like, she's one centimeter. I can get this Foley balloon. Like it's supposed to be easy.
00:48:49
Speaker
And then like, it just wasn't happening for me. So now it's like, you know what? I give up. I'm done torturing this lady. I'm going to like call my senior. And I went to my senior with my head down. I'm like, Like, I couldn't put in the Foley balloon. Like, can you go in there? Like, i've traumatized her enough, whatever.
00:49:03
Speaker
Like, sure, sure, sure, no problem. I go in there and it's like, yeah, you're ramming into her placenta. Like, that's why. Like, you know, so things that aren't normal. it's not going to go well. You know what Or was like, so just having that second sense of like, oh, I need to call my senior or, oh, I can do this by myself. Like it'll come like beginning of intern year. I called them about Tylenol. I called them about I was going to get some methoogen from post. Like I called about every little thing, but now I'm at the point where it's like, I only call where things are not in the general schema. And then now it's a second year. I'm learning like how to like,
00:49:36
Speaker
work through my own problems by myself and stuff like oh it's not normal i'm gonna call my senior and now more like okay because if the intern calls me then what what am i gonna do so it's that general process of thinking and i find it so interesting how much we learn week by week as residents because you may feel like a fish out of water but then come january when things just like click you've been through all the rotations you're your second time around with the next set of rotations And like things just come so much easier and you know, like common things are common. Anything else abnormal, you call your senior and you actually start enjoying it a little bit until second year. And then you start from the bottom again and work way up to the next January. So.
00:50:19
Speaker
And chinata i mean, i feel like it's probably super early in the summer for you. So it's just like fourth year just feels like craziness. Yeah. yeah yeah know Y'all said, for fourth year, you're enjoying fourth year is the best time of medical school, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, where and how, y'all?
00:50:39
Speaker
January. It seems like January is a magic month. I was born in January because it was the best time of the year. kid you not. January is when you gain clarity.
00:50:51
Speaker
Yeah. But fourth year Summer, that's not that girl. I'm sorry. She's not that girl. And everybody who likes to say that fourth year, I don't know what specialty you're applying into.
00:51:05
Speaker
I'll talk for myself. I was in grind mode last summer and it wasn't fun. Nothing about it was fun. You're literally, i you know, obviously as like a resident and everything, like you you clearly work You clearly work hard.
00:51:24
Speaker
Arguably the fourth year sub-out was really trying to mask him where might be one of the hardest people that's working in our house. They are grinding. I've never seen people I'm like, take it easy. You know what I mean? I'm like, relax.
00:51:36
Speaker
like ah be Like, go drink water. You know, like, everything is do or die. It's like everything is due at once. Letters, MSP, blah, blah, blah. All these things. I know. It's like, how? And then the sub-I, application, resume resume, letter, blah, blah, blah. Personal statement.
00:51:54
Speaker
I've never written my personal statement. Yeah. That's real. Arguably one of the hardest people working in the hospital in the summertime. The sub-I's? Yep.
00:52:06
Speaker
Like they trying to get out the mud and you could tell. They didn't go there to play around
Overcoming Imposter Syndrome and Building Confidence
00:52:12
Speaker
at all. It doesn't even matter. They don't like some things to me, like, like when I'll have a sub I or something, they're like, uh, Dr. Kocha blah, blah, blah. I'm like, it's okay.
00:52:21
Speaker
Breathe. I'm like, do you want a cookie? You know what Like, you want to go to the mini mart and get some candy? And they're like, no, no, no, I got to do this. And I'm like, you don't to anything. Just chill, chill.
00:52:31
Speaker
But I remember when I on that grind, I was so anxious every day going into my rotation. I was like, I got to make a good impression. People have to like you. You have to know your medical knowledge. You have to you know show that you're somewhat competent and somewhat teachable.
00:52:45
Speaker
But it's like, as an intern and as like a second year, don't care if people like me or not, quite frankly. like I'm going to do my job. I've already matched here. Try and find another one's gonna really hard.
00:52:57
Speaker
So like I'm more focused on me and like being a good surgeon versus this people liking me. Like it's like the priorities are so like so different versus like trying to match, you know.
00:53:09
Speaker
ga does think that Yeah, i it's crazy though because I I think this was like my first or second day. ah had a little bit of PTSD. Like, i don't know what was happening, right but aye just went downstairs without telling my co-residents that I was getting coffee.
00:53:29
Speaker
And then it dawned on me when I was downstairs, like, oh maybe they'd like to come with you. Maybe these two would like to try to be your friends. Maybe they want to like socialize with you.
00:53:41
Speaker
Exactly. And I was just like, oh this is PTSD from fourth year. That anxiety of, I need to be likable. And, you know, all the things that you maybe said, like, it really is just...
00:53:55
Speaker
it's you're under a microscope and you feel that, right? And you know that you are and it it just, it makes it hard sometimes to like fully let yourself go. So I am now trying to work on that. Like it's getting- Yeah, it took me a year, I would say. I was very stiff for about,
00:54:12
Speaker
not year, maybe January, till January, but, like, I didn't show my true story, to be honest, yeah, because I'm, like, I'm here, I'm very much, like, I'm here to work type of vibe, and, like, my co-residents now know that about me, like, when the baby's at work, she's here to work, and when she's, you know, outside of work, she's, like, a clown, you know what mean, but, like, it took me a while to, like, show my authentic self, because, like, I was just, like, so stressed out about, like, I don't want someone to croak on me, you know I don't want this person with BV to croak on me, you know what I mean, like, was so stressed out about, like, being a small person,
00:54:43
Speaker
Mabee's here to work, y'all. Okay. Mabee don't play. She's here to work. Yeah, like what mean like, why are we smiling? like There's nothing to smile. If you're smiling, that distract somebody better be written and wrote.
00:54:58
Speaker
Written and wrote. That's just it. I'm kidding. i will say and so I will say from surgeon to surgeon, one advice that I have is the OR naturally has like with hierarchy. you know And because you're the intern, some people are not even operating will try and...
00:55:20
Speaker
you know will try and put you in your place because they feel small. So they want to see who else they can make feel small so that they can feel big. And I empower you to let that slide for two weeks. So you've been there two weeks. Two weeks is up.
00:55:36
Speaker
And I empower you to be like, because this is what something I wish I could work on, like when I was interested, to be more confident in the OR because I'm there to learn. But you're not going to make me feel less than in the OR.
00:55:48
Speaker
yeah So one thing I'm trying to work on for myself as a second year is like, I know the procedure because I read about it. I know the procedure because I've done it before. If it wasn't a second year friendly procedure, I wouldn't be the one doing it. enough for doing it right So anyone that's trying to make you feel small in those situations,
00:56:06
Speaker
either check them or just ignore them. One of the two. Sometimes I ignore, sometimes I check, it depends on my day. But I will say like, especially as like minority women, young minority women of color in surgical specialties, there's a great um like longing for some people to humble us and we didn't into reality to be humbled. You know what I mean? So don't let anyone humble you.
00:56:30
Speaker
um Be humble, but don't let them humble you.
00:56:35
Speaker
featured you maybe on the mic right now. That's real.
00:56:40
Speaker
That's super real. And like we haven't said it, but we both know who we talking about. right
00:56:49
Speaker
Right. And you will be. No, but I have some of the issues on like sub eyes and I don't know. you You definitely get that vibe and it's like, ugh. I don't understand why I'm feeling that way.
00:57:04
Speaker
But again, also, think for me, something I want to do is just hardworking, like being hardworking outside of the OR too, like practicing much as I can because hopefully gives you that confidence in the OR. Like, yes, I'm talking about that thing. Like, I know what it's called, right? Exactly.
00:57:24
Speaker
And even as an AI and an intern and all the things, like, one thing that they can never, like, one compliment that I think I get is that even if I don't know what's going on, I've read about it.
00:57:36
Speaker
And I see all my practice bulletins. i Whatever is your GenSearch textbook. Ours is to lend for a guide. I don't know what it is for GenSearch. But, like, that should be, like, you have to be well-read. Like when coming to the OR, you have to be well-read. You have to know the patient, the procedure, the simple steps to the procedure, because that's what shows that you're teachable and more people are willing to teach you when that you've done the heavy lifting yourself.
00:58:00
Speaker
And I feel like especially for people of color, we have to we have to speak a lot more than what we do because we have to almost like prove that we know stuff. You know what I mean? So I um tend to be like an internal person. Like I keep everything in my mind as I'm thinking.
00:58:15
Speaker
The problem is people think that I don't know what I'm doing because I'm not saying it out loud. Not because I'm a person of color. Maybe it's just because of me as a person. I don't know. But I think- showing that you know like this for me like showing that you know the steps of hysterectomy you don't know how hysterectomy know how to hysterectomy but i know the steps of hysterectomy and that's a lot more teachable than just showing up in me like well you know i'm here and i think it gives you a certain amount of risk respect when you should that you've done the heavy lifting to be in the or because like they say the or is a privilege you know what i mean so doing that heavy lifting and knowing that you may have to work harder than your other counterparts especially gen surge being a woman being a person of color like you like
00:58:55
Speaker
you know, the eyes are always on us. So like showing that you know your stuff, if you have to do an extra hour of reading compared to your co-residents, that's just what it is. And that's what has to be done. yeah. And just to maybe in terms of the personal statement, you know, I just want to address that real quick.
00:59:12
Speaker
I didn't have my personal statement written for like, I don't remember when I wrote it, but it took a while. And it's because you need to find another way to really showcase who you are now and not just, you know,
00:59:28
Speaker
And not just like who you were when you came into medical school. There has been growth. There has changed. Chinaza that walked into medical school then is not the same one now. So really take that time you know in the little like small time that you have to yourself during like your sub-rise when you're not doing stuff or on the weekends and just like jot down ideas right and think about the stuff that's really important to you.
Personal Growth and Closing Remarks
00:59:51
Speaker
um Yeah, for me, it always goes back to family and in everything that I saw. So that's sort of where mine went. But... you know, that's not necessarily, that doesn't have to be your your particular story. It really is about, okay, what do I want to showcase about myself in this one particular way to these schools, right? And that can translate to anything. That could be a hobby super passionate about an event that changed you, something you saw that changed you, right? Like, that's all real.
01:00:25
Speaker
So that'd be my advice. Thank you. Thanks for sharing that.
01:00:35
Speaker
Oh oh yeah Happy will read it big time.
01:00:41
Speaker
Well guys, this has been so amazing. so fun, even though we're all tired in these new things that we're in, but thanks so much for tuning into unscripted and be sure to tune into our future conversations that we'll be having here on SMA presents the lounge.
01:01:00
Speaker
Bye guys. Bye.