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Boundaries, Backlash, & Billions
41 Plays12 days ago
As summer comes to a close,
Join our hosts Dr. Isabella Ntigbu, Dr. Samiza Palmer, and Jared Jeffrey M.S., as they discuss alleged blurred lines in patient provider relationships, one corporate giant's restructuring, and the lawsuit surrounding one popular pharmaceutical brand.
To share your thoughts on our discussion or if you have any questions to ask our hosts, email podcast@snma.org for a chance to be featured on the show!
External Affairs Committee Application: https://forms.office.com/r/2vckuuJmHt
Disclaimer: The opinions and views expressed on our podcast do not reflect the official stance of the Student National Medical Association.
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
The views expressed on this podcast represent only those of the hosts and do not represent the views of the Student National Medical Association.
Invitation to SNMA's External Affairs Committee
00:00:07
Speaker
Got a creative spark? Want to use it to uplift and empower the SNMA community?
00:00:12
Speaker
Join the SNMA External Affairs Committee. Whether you're into PR and engagement, graphic design or video, marketing or podcasting, there's a place for you on our team. This is your chance to express your creativity while advancing the SNMA mission and amplifying the voices of our members.
00:00:29
Speaker
If you're ready to make your mark, we want you on our team. If you have any questions, please email us at externalaffairs at snma.org. To access the applications, click the links in the description box below. Now, let's start the show.
Introducing 'SNMA Presents The Lounge'
00:01:02
Speaker
Welcome to SNMA Presents The Lounge. Whether you're in the student lounge, doctor's lounge, or lounging around at home, get ready to join SNMA for meaningful conversations on topics affecting minorities in medicine and groups that often sit at the margins of healthcare. care Well, guys, it's about to be the end of August, the end of summer.
00:01:22
Speaker
You know, what is everybody doing for Labor Day? Like, what's going on? What are we doing? Okay, okay. It's a very good question. Very good question. How you doing, everybody? My name is aspiring student, Dr. Jared Jeffrey.
00:01:34
Speaker
And for Labor Day, I have already put in my time and I'm getting off from both my jobs. I'm not playing with them. I don't know who, if y'all know, y'all didn't know, whatever the case may be.
Celebrating Labor Day: West Indian Culture
00:01:44
Speaker
new york In New York, Labor Day is New York Carnival, with air quotes. That's New York. as That's New York's ah West Indian Day Parade.
00:01:54
Speaker
oh I am going to be celebrating how West Indian I am all weekend. so We love that for you. I love it. ah Hello, everyone. I'm Dr. Isabel. Yeah. Drop the student.
00:02:06
Speaker
I'm not going to lie. The doctor really be hitting like this. I am doctor. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. How many years now? Okay. You know, we have to upgrade, upgrade.
00:02:19
Speaker
So I'm
00:02:23
Speaker
um silly. Hello everyone. um So for me, Labor Day, i think what, that's what September, the first Monday. It's the first. Yeah. It's the first this year.
00:02:34
Speaker
Okay. um I will be in the ICU, the pediatric ICU on Labor Day. um Yeah. this the The schedule is just, it's not scheduling really.
00:02:45
Speaker
um I will say, will say that hopefully- Doctor, but at what cost? At what cost? i will say that de but at what cost what cost It's nice having residents on the show now. Oh my gosh. This is such a fresh perspective. This is this is nice.
00:03:07
Speaker
It's crazy. You know, we asked for this and, you know, you ask yourself, re receive. you pray You pray for this. Pray for this. Okay.
Balancing Holidays and Healthcare Work
00:03:15
Speaker
You can pray for times like this. Pray for times like this. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting.
00:03:22
Speaker
Oh my God. But you know, I will say, hopefully I get back at a reasonable time so I can enjoy the rest of the holiday. ah That's, that's what I hope for. And hopefully, you know, the kids are doing well when I round on them and treat them. Yeah. Hopefully they'll have a good labor day.
00:03:37
Speaker
They'd probably want to be outside instead of the hospital. So I feel blessed to be able to treat them in a vulnerable time. So that's why you always got to bring it back. I always got to bring it back. um Yeah. Yeah.
00:03:49
Speaker
Oh, I asked the question and didn't introduce myself. Didn't say who I am. Like y'all supposed to know who I am from sound. Um, but yes, it's also Dr. Samisa Palmer. Period. Yeah. It kind of do a little, um, every, every time.
00:04:04
Speaker
I'm not gonna lie. Y'all really, uh, y'all worked on that one. Yeah. Okay. yeah Um, okay. What am I doing for labor day? um I was supposed to be going on a trip this weekend, but I don't think it's going to work out, which I still have to tell some people about me not making this trip.
00:04:24
Speaker
But it's neither here nor there. um And then, yeah, on the actual first, we were just talking about this, like, what really is like a holiday, you know? Like, the holidays that most people in the world respect is like Christmas and, you know, Thanksgiving. Yeah. Yeah.
00:04:41
Speaker
um the hospital like you i mean i don't care about it i would want to be able to receive health care on holidays so i understand it um but if we're not respecting those holidays labor day yeah be real guys but um it's not giving we'll find something to do like isabella said and you know You have call days and all that. if you're not on call, maybe you won't be the person that has to be there at the nighttime. And maybe you'll be able to catch a little, a little rib, a little barbecue chicken.
00:05:16
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. I like that. like that. There you go. um Thank y'all for y'all service on the holiday. Of course. ah I'll celebrate for all three of us. Yeah, I'm saluting right now.
00:05:28
Speaker
I love that. One thing Jerry's going to going to turn up no matter the event. yeah
00:05:35
Speaker
You know me, man.
00:05:38
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So guys, it's time to run
Controversy: Dermatology Resident's TikTok
00:05:40
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the list. For our preclinical students, running the patient list on the ward allows the team to address pressing matters of the day. In this segment of the show, we'll be discussing more recent events in medicine and beyond affecting our communities and the populations we serve.
00:05:55
Speaker
So I have the pleasure of introducing our first and maybe most pressing, I'm kidding, but our first topic um on running the list. And what we wanted to talk about was, I don't know if any of y'all have seen this video of this dermatology resident um that basically was like, if you want to be in Durham, like you can't be having pimples.
00:06:18
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And it might prevent you from joining the special team. I heard the sound bites, yeah. Yeah, so, I mean, the TikTok itself is sort of long form and she's kind of giving tips in general about, like, doing sub-eyes and how fourth year works and everything like that. But one of the tips that she gives is, hey, like,
00:06:39
Speaker
you know, first impressions and bias really matter. And that is a bias that might be just more pertinent in her particular specialty. Right. um Which, you know, i guess...
00:06:54
Speaker
first talking about that, I wanna hear you guys' as thoughts about like her saying that, the validity of that and just what does that mean for somebody that's interested in that particular field? And like that's the response you're hearing from somebody that's actually in the field.
00:07:08
Speaker
But then also your opinions on sort of other medical professionals that I've given there. So just to talk about some of them, Abigail Waldman, who's also a dermatologist and a mold surgeon. So those are people that like you know like take out um like skin cancers and things.
00:07:24
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At MassGen, she basically was like, she learned from other mentors who struggled with ah eczema and scarring themselves.
00:07:36
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And they were on Accutane and they were far more sympathetic to their patients. And basically it was like, FYI, dermatologists have acne. Go into dermatology for your love of skin disease and goal of helping others with their skin. If you're judging your rotators, you're judging your patients. Rant over.
00:07:52
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um And then another doctor, Olivia Perez, basically touched on her article where she's like she didn't apply to Durham initially because of acne um and said that basically one of her TikTok followers tagged her in the original video um that's since been taken down. And as someone who did not apply to Durham in the first time around because she had internalized this type of messaging,
00:08:14
Speaker
um that dermatologists can't have dermatologic conditions. She wants to be crystal clear. You can and should apply to whichever specialty you want, even if you suffer from medical condition that your specialty treats.
00:08:27
Speaker
Like I said, and what are you guys' just thoughts on the original comments? And what are you guys' thoughts about the responses? yeah i think that's I have one question. Was the original young lady... Did she sound like she was trying to come from a good place saying this?
00:08:44
Speaker
um like What was the tone? From what I recall, yeah it it was giving... it It didn't even sound like she wasn't trying to come from a good place. It sounded like she was being brutally honest, to be honest with you. And like, okay, I think there's a lot of ways that this can be looked at because one, I think what she's saying is probably true in a lot of aspects.
00:09:08
Speaker
Yeah. People don't really talk about the hidden agendas and the hidden like curriculum criteria exactly that they want people to meet when it comes to applying it to a certain specialty.
00:09:20
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And even though it it's true that this is not how it should be done. This is not how you should be evaluating people that you potentially want into your specialty. It happens all the time. People find the most superficial reasons to not bring somebody on or rank somebody highly because of something like this.
00:09:37
Speaker
So I wouldn't say it was giving like she was trying to be malicious, but it honestly sounded like she was being brutally honest. and Gotcha. Brutally honest is good way to put it. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds like the kind of thing that like, you know, once you're in it, you'll hear about, you know, but...
00:09:54
Speaker
And nobody's going to throw down on socials. Nobody's going to really put that out there for people to dissect or talk about nothing like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got you. And I think another thing to ah take into account is that um this may or may not be her reality or what she's heard.
00:10:13
Speaker
um And like she she even in the video, I might be generalizing, but it could be that, you know, that's very program specific, but that's not the case everywhere. So in terms of like what the other person said about how they didn't apply to derm because they thought of not applying to derm initially because of their own skin conditions.
00:10:31
Speaker
I don't think it should preclude you from, you know, trying to attempt to get in the field. Yeah. but I think she's not wrong in saying that the bias exists. It probably does. There's, like she said, humans have biases. They may or may not cop up to them all the time, but they exist.
00:10:47
Speaker
And she not coming up with that from nothing, in my opinion. However, should she have maybe gone on TikTok and been like, hey, do that. That's what saying. You Aaron, not your colleagues, girl. And she did say, like, ah what did she say? She was like, um you know, you you have to, it was like, the way she said it was kind of like,
00:11:06
Speaker
you did like, you kind of have to get your acne together. It was more so like a, this is not a suggestion. This is kind of like a necessity. And I think that's going to scare a lot of hopefuls, like a lot of applicant hopefuls. So.
Competitiveness in Dermatology Applications
00:11:19
Speaker
Yeah. And Durham specifically is already incredibly competitive, right? Like if you tell somebody, Hey, Like, you need to do this amount of publications. You need to have this on your step. You need to do this, this, and this. And it's yeah something attainable.
00:11:35
Speaker
They're already killing themselves to do that. And then say, hey, like, don't know. You got to get that dermis together. You got to get your sebaceous glands together. Like, that's a crazy thing to say. That's a crazy thing to say. And I feel like there's a level of humanity in, like,
00:11:53
Speaker
being somebody that may have dealt with or have been afflicted with something related to the specialty you practice, right? Like, just think about it. Like, I would trust a psychiatrist more that sees therapists and admits to personal or family members that they struggle with their own mental health because you can empathize with me better and that empathy can play into your clinical, like, procedures or your clinical practices or however you perceive me. You know what i'm saying? Like,
00:12:21
Speaker
Being able to walk in my shoes a little bit, I don't know, i think that helps me relate to to whoever is providing me a service. And if you extrapolate this a little bit more, I mean, this is more so like when you're practicing and in it, but this is like the conversations we have around like disability insurance is like residents and stuff, right?
00:12:39
Speaker
Like if you, for some reason within your training or after your training become incapacitated and like can't really do your job, then does that, like can't really do your job in the way that you used to it, does that make you like less useful in your field? Now it's a little bit of a stretch, but to me, like I can draw the line like, okay, if I can't necessarily stand up like this and, you know, do whatever particular surgery I want to do, like what would that do for me in my in my particular field? So, I mean, I think it's it's hard because there's like, are you capable of doing the job versus like,
00:13:16
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Is it like just something you don't look good doing the job or whatever, whatever it might be, right? Like that I just don't fit your particular mold, but can you do the job? It's different. Exactly.
00:13:27
Speaker
So it's a crazy take, but ultimately it does happen. I think that's kind of the moral of the story. And I would just kind of say as a sweeping statement to like all people, ah any listeners out there who are applying to residency,
00:13:39
Speaker
when people tell you some brutal truths like that, pay attention and listen, because they might be saving you money, time, like effort on putting in an application.
Denzel Washington on Cancel Culture
00:13:48
Speaker
Yeah. Like I would just say I would pay attention, but yeah um unfortunately, like this video is an example of trying to preclude a group of people and weed people out.
00:14:00
Speaker
um Similarly to almost like cancel culture and how cancel culture is a way of weeding people out and canceling people off of very, weird and broad, I guess, situations or circumstances. And in this case, uh, Denzel, who actually just recently, um, starred in one of Spike Lee's new movies.
00:14:20
Speaker
Um, do what is the name of the movie? I'm forgetting the name of the movie. Um, does anyone know the name of the movie? Sorry, we're gonna to cut this out. Cause I feel like the name of the movie should have been here.
00:14:33
Speaker
Um, um,
00:14:38
Speaker
I would search it up. Highest to lowest? Okay, I think that's what it is. Okay. Yeah, highest to lowest. Let me restart that. But on the same thread of cancel culture, ah Denzel Washington is actually starring in one of Spike Lee's new movies, Highest to Lowest.
00:14:53
Speaker
And he actually spoke out very bluntly about his thoughts on cancel culture. and It's so funny because Denzel is one of those uncles where it's like you know they get to a certain age and they just say, man, I don't care about what you're talking about. like This doesn't apply to me. He's beyond established. yeah he's i what up here like He really doesn't care. and I feel like I love listening to people like him because you're going to get the real.
00:15:17
Speaker
And so... um He said, like, basically he was asked, like, what are your thoughts about cancel culture? And he literally says, quote, I don't care who's following who. You can't lead and follow at the same time. And you can't follow and lead at the same time. I don't follow anybody. I follow the heavenly spirit. Amen.
00:15:33
Speaker
I follow God. I don't follow man. i have faith in God. I have hope in man, but look around. It ain't working out so well. Washington, ah end quote. Washington also reiterated that he doesn't care about being followed, adding, you can't be canceled if you haven't signed up.
00:15:46
Speaker
Don't sign up. ah The Oscar winner began to laugh, stretched his hands as he told Lee, don't get me started. You know, chest is getting tight, talking about it. Lee echoed a similar statement and added, I could care less. And this was like all quoted from People Magazine.
00:15:58
Speaker
But basically like, Denzel just said, yeah, he don't care about cancel culture. And I think that's like... I'm glad he's kind of speaking out more about it because I think that a lot of times like in society, we depend on people's like perceptions of us, people's like thoughts about us and like kind of external validation, which then can also tie into like our mental health.
00:16:19
Speaker
And so I think thinking about cancel culture and like what that translates, let's say within like entertainment space and then thinking about how it can relate to us, like just as human beings who may be trying to,
00:16:31
Speaker
seek try and seek people's validation or try and find worth and what people think about us um maybe having more of that thought process of how can we remove ourselves from like other people's perceptions to help our mental health kind of flourish and not kind of be so tied and weighed down to like everybody has everybody's opinion if that makes any sense so don't know what are you guys's thoughts on like him kind of tying this together in terms of like cancel culture and like how it kind of can connect to our lives and like the way we see cancel culture on a day-to-day basis?
Social Media and Professional Image
00:17:04
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think it's a good question. I mean, I think something that we probably both experience and, you know, everybody has probably experienced in like schooling as time has gone on and social media has become more prevalent is you always have this like mandatory lecture about social media and ah like basically,
00:17:26
Speaker
not like destroying your brand, even if it's not necessarily set in that way. It's like, Oh, be careful about what you, what you post. And, you know, if you want to talk about your interactions with patients, like you have to make sure it's the identified and just everything in that nature. And,
00:17:44
Speaker
you know, they'll have slideshows where they're like, oh, this person basically failed out of med school because of everything that they said on social media, right? So I think when you bring that in mind, like it's sort of ingrained, like, okay, like if I post this, especially if I'm in a position of power or authority, like how is this gonna reflect, right? Like just in general, like now, okay, we're practicing physicians.
00:18:12
Speaker
it comes up like, hey, I'm going out, like, what am I posting? Right. Like, you have to be cognizant of the fact that you may or may not be looked up by people that, you know, look to you as a source of authority and you have to be cognizant of that. And there's a possibility that with that responsibility, you could come under scrutiny. So I think for me, obviously it is like,
00:18:39
Speaker
Difficult to deal with because we're all young, you know, people want to have fun and all those things. I think the the weight of that can be very taxing on mental health. And I think it's just, i don't know, it almost feels like it's par for the course because of the field that all of us are pursuing.
00:18:58
Speaker
people People want to be able to trust their physicians. So I think that plays even more into like cancel culture and being responsible on social media for sure.
00:19:10
Speaker
Yeah, um i think I think what Denzel was saying was like ah kind of along the lines of like cancel culture itself can't be the authority, right?
00:19:21
Speaker
Like we can't give the authority to the masses to remove the voice from... from people like you guys who may have already done the work, done the schooling, but presented something that may not have been 100% positive in the public eye. You know what i'm saying?
00:19:41
Speaker
I think what he was trying to say was like, kind of like de-incentivize the idea of, Oh, yeah. As soon as somebody slips up once, that's it for them. soon as somebody slips up, that's a wrap. You know, because in this world, it's 2025. You know what I'm saying? where it's We're very much in a world where social media, our social media identities are intertwined with our regular identities.
00:20:01
Speaker
And whether or not you choose to be a doctor on social media, or maybe just want to be the person that you are,
00:20:09
Speaker
Doing something there should not be able to ruin everything here. You know what I'm saying? Like there needs to be a level of disconnect. There needs to be a level of scrutiny with regard to, yeah, definitely have some decorum of what you post.
00:20:25
Speaker
Definitely, you know, use your head, use your better judgment for those. But in the slight instance that you may not have used your better judgment, the consequences should be, uh, should correlate you know like it should it shouldn't be oh minor mistake major consequence okay minor mistake minor consequence something along those lines that's what i think yeah i'm just gonna not push back but just come back on that point a little bit yes i think cancel culture can go too far sometimes right especially when you sort of have this like
00:21:01
Speaker
you know, funnel of ideas, like idea. i am forgetting the term now, but when everybody is just like, oh, we all think the same thing, group think, right? Like herd mentality. Exactly.
00:21:13
Speaker
Like that's, I understand when that's a little too far. but i Honestly, though, some people need to be canceled. Some people need to be found out And I'm sorry. Yeah.
00:21:24
Speaker
You being like, you know, just... You're racist. Yeah, you're happy. Like you being like very much so, oh, I hate this group of people because of their skin color or the language they speak.
00:21:40
Speaker
I am not sure if that changed in the five years that you were in whatever sort of professional school. Yeah. Which, you know, maybe you met some people. Maybe you are different.
00:21:51
Speaker
Yeah. But i don't I think people have a right to know about that and feel some sort of way about that. Oh, yeah. Now, do I think you can't be forgiven after you've been canceled? I don't necessarily agree with that, like especially if you're actually remorseful and you show that you're doing the work.
00:22:06
Speaker
I am a proponent of, hey, you need to be called out. Let's like's bring it out. But let's maybe not ostracize you completely. Okay, okay I think there's a There's a definitely a Meeting ground in the middle Like I was thinking more of like The the the the middle of the bell curve You went right for the The 2SD, the 3SD, the outskirts You know what I'm saying? Yeah, they're researchers They're researchers The alpha. The alpha. on. that definitely definitely ah
00:22:41
Speaker
Definitely cancel them. but yeah yeah The middle of the Gaussian distribution. let's Let's keep them you know ahs keep the the the correlation there. you know what i'm saying Let's make it not too too difficult because I feel like...
Professional Boundaries in Psychiatry
00:22:55
Speaker
Exactly. No extremes. in that in that in In that instance, it becomes very difficult for people to identify the boundaries between where They can post as themselves or post as a professional.
00:23:07
Speaker
The same way that boundaries were violated in a recent doctor-patient relationship that I've seen over on TikTok. Y'all ready for this one now? I hope y'all got y'all tea ready.
00:23:18
Speaker
Oh, I got it. A young lady whose name will be undisclosed went on TikTok to voice that she fell in love with her psychiatrist. And now the story has caused an uproar among mental health professionals because they believe that there had to be some kind of mishandling for this situation to get this far. So let mean let me give it to y'all straight.
00:23:44
Speaker
She says, okay, she goes to the psychiatrist. she Women say the psychiatrist was in the wrong because he knew and never ended their doctor-patient relationship. There are some people that are in the field saying that the doctor handling the care, he did what they're kind of trained to do, you know, like... ah One example, Dr. Agam Dahuan discussed how psychiatrists have to balance warmth and empathy with professionalism.
00:24:11
Speaker
As, you know, in that situation, the woman accusing the psychiatrist stated he may have been overly warm with her and then cold. That's kind of something that psychiatrists do to build rapport, you know?
00:24:22
Speaker
That's how they are going to... ah get the patient to feel comfortable opening up to them. And there could have been concern that if she disclosed certain things and then he immediately cut that connection and maybe, we know, referred her out or referred her somewhere else, that she would have a kind of like, ah she would feel unsafe disclosing to to other psychiatrists in the future. You get what I'm saying?
00:24:45
Speaker
And so I want to know how you guys feel. Like, do you think there was... A boundary cross, do you think, like, what in what scenario do you think it's okay to discover, okay, as a psychiatrist, your patient is in love with you, and you don't sever the patient-provider relationship right away?
00:25:08
Speaker
Yeah, I think this was this was a very interesting topic just because... um yeah Yeah, like those things happen, right? Like being a doctor, in a sense, you're in a space of authority and then you're treating people who have like bonafide medical conditions, right?
00:25:26
Speaker
And I think it's even more tricky in psychiatry where your treatment is talking. Like that is your that is your form of treatment, talking and then medications. they don't really, they don't do procedures. They don't do surgeries.
00:25:39
Speaker
It's literally talk therapy and then giving them medications. So I feel like because of that, that's all you have. And so for this, in this situation,
00:25:51
Speaker
If you're trying to get your patient in a better place, you want to make sure that the form of talk therapy that you're doing or the form of communication that you're doing is coming from a place of like like the um physician who just stated his thoughts, warmth, empathy, understanding, right? But at the same time, you still have to maintain that level of professionalism.
00:26:11
Speaker
I will say when I watched the TikTok video and this is purely my opinion, right? Doesn't SMA is not a part of this opinion, but when I, when I, when residency program, right and my my residency program is not a part of this opinion.
00:26:24
Speaker
My medical license is not a part of this opinion. We'll say that, um, when she was talking about the situation, it was giving that she was probably actively,
00:26:40
Speaker
having a psychiatric um episode, if that makes any sense. I'm not a psychiatrist. I can't diagnose when someone is actively, potentially psychotic or, you know, not any of it it um yeah altered or whatever. But it did it did sound like that to me. So I'm even wondering when she was saying this, was she like was she still in treatment? Was she still, you know, actively seeing a psychiatrist? Did she, like, leave treatment and now was kind of just like...
00:27:09
Speaker
just being how she is without being seen by someone medically. So I will say that, like, I think people have to also take that with a grain of salt because if she was seeing a psychiatrist in the first place, that means that she has legitimate medical issues, like from a mental standpoint where it might be hard to know if she was actually ah ah ah what we call like a reliable historian, if that makes any sense, like is what she's saying actually what happened, you know?
00:27:31
Speaker
So I think like that part in itself makes me already skeptical based on like what I was hearing her recount the story. That's one part. Then the second part is like, once again, the psychiatrist, if all he has is talk therapy and medications, you have a very limited way to kind of maneuver yourself.
00:27:49
Speaker
not like the boundary being looking a little bit gray because it's like, this is someone that's your patient that you're supposed to be treating. So you're not going to just dump your patient because she's like expressed, Hey, I like you. Right. There's kind of ways you go about it.
00:28:02
Speaker
And maybe just because he didn't cut it off doesn mean that he was then like affirming it, but that was his way of trying to like still show that empathy and trying to treat his patient. And so it's very tricky. So that's kind of my thought process of like,
00:28:16
Speaker
When I watch the TikTok, i don't know. simme I like that. Samisa, what do you think? No, I think I agree. And i think just the general concept of boundaries in medicine, you know, do people act inappropriately, especially as a female physician?
00:28:33
Speaker
Like... I'm sure Isabella can attest as well. Sometimes patients be saying some wild stuff and you have to, hey, hey, bro. Yeah. You're a doctor today. you know john I don't know what you're talking about.
00:28:46
Speaker
Yeah. I know what you're talking about. Don't call me pity. Don't do any of that. First of all, I look crazy, but you know, whatever. um But in general, like what those situations do happen.
00:29:01
Speaker
um it is very uncomfortable, but you have to get very um just sort of firm in your, Hey, I'm providing you with care. I am your doctor, your physician.
00:29:14
Speaker
And that, especially if you're uncomfortable and like you feel as though like, you know, it's not safe for you get yourself out of the situation. That's number one, like safety concerns.
00:29:24
Speaker
But if you're not having a safety concern, and but you just feel like it's inappropriate, just like, hey, that's inappropriate. Or, hey let's focus on like your care that we're trying to provide you today. For me, this comes up a lot, obviously.
00:29:38
Speaker
Like with surgery, like we're constantly like, you know, doing examinations and things of that nature. So like that you physically have to like touch the body and like just be in people's personal space. So I think it's even more important to sort of set that boundary. Like, hey, I am your provider. I'm going to help with your care.
00:29:57
Speaker
Let's not cross any boundaries that would prevent me from doing so. right so i mean I generally think in terms of her, like probably set the boundaries, reset the boundaries. I don't know. I wasn't in their sessions. yeah and It just was unclear to her that friendliness, kindness, and compassion does not equal like, hey, I want to be in a relationship with you. Consent. Right. Exactly.
00:30:23
Speaker
Yep. Yep. And I like the points that both you guys made. And I was curious to think like, okay, where would crossing the line actually be?
00:30:34
Speaker
So I did a little research and I saw that in, this is kind of old, but from 2005 in the in the Journal of Medical Regulation, they actually published professional boundary violations by physicians and they gave them a score. So all of these are non-sexual violations and they kind of ah ranked them.
00:30:55
Speaker
So like the five point violations would be like financial, right? Giving money or borrowing money from patients, soliciting a donation from a patient for your own personal building, not for like a foundation or anything that you're a part of.
00:31:08
Speaker
Social violations, these are scored like just a little bit higher. Things like staying in a patient's home, going on vacation with them, accepting or giving rides to a patient, having coffee with them, taking a patient and their child out to dinner, or allowing a patient to live in your home.
00:31:24
Speaker
Um, Confidentiality violations, talking about one patient with another, giving a patient an open bottle of medication with another patient's name on it. and ah And then these like kind of fall under like other.
00:31:38
Speaker
Simultaneously treating and supervising a psychiatric resident, helping a patient move, frequent and extensive extensions of therapy sessions, and using drugs with a patient.
00:31:52
Speaker
So those are just a couple of like, well, and you see, yeah, yeah that's a violation. These should have been, you know, and I love how stunned and surprised you guys' faces are. Cause like, it's very clear that like this never even crossed your desk, your mind, the darkest recesses of your head. Like, you know what I'm saying?
00:32:09
Speaker
And like, if it's not even getting close to these places, you know what i'm saying? It could be a case of like, you know, a vulnerable individual misinterpreting or a patient provider relationship, unfortunately, you know what I'm saying? I think like, this is kind of a good, it's good thinking about, um, from a psychiatric perspective, like what are, what are, what are the things that kind of,
00:32:38
Speaker
are at play when it comes to treating patients who have mental health issues and like what things to be concerned about? Yeah. And speaking of backlash. Lord. Speaking of backlash. Speaking of, you know, people being canceled. Speaking of, you know, we need to talk about it.
Target's Rollback on DEI Initiatives
00:32:58
Speaker
um I don't know if you guys remember sort of, I guess what it was like sort of closer to, oh I guess when, um The inauguration happened.
00:33:08
Speaker
Target had a very stark response to, I guess, you know, new legislation and, you know, not wanting to have DEI initiatives and, you know, all the like.
00:33:20
Speaker
So they ended, you know, several of their most visible DEI initiatives like REACH, which is a racial equity action and change strategy and their participation in the human rights campaign corporate equality index.
00:33:33
Speaker
The company also rebranded their supplier diversity program and called it supplier engagement and removed basically all of their DEI focus goals from their website.
00:33:44
Speaker
Target was saying that they... Exactly. Target stated that they were trying to move to an evolving external landscape, a phrase interpreted by many as pressure from political actors and conservative shareholder groups.
00:33:58
Speaker
So, I don't know if you guys also know that the public had a response to Target's response, which was literally people were protesting, people were boycotting.
00:34:10
Speaker
it just, you know, it was it was sacrilegious to go into a Target for a good, like, two months. Good minutes. For sure. It's still not, it's still frowned upon. You may be able to get a little, little, a little something. But it, we...
00:34:24
Speaker
There was a there was a response to the response and window shop in there now. Exactly. Just look, just look, don't purchase. But basically there was at least, you know, a couple different, yeah very um visible um reactions to it. So protesters were gathered outside their Minneapolis headquarters and had a 40 day consumer boycott that was organized by civil rights group.
00:34:48
Speaker
um Newsweek posted that. And then the Twin Cities Pride Festival cut ties with Target and they canceled this major partnership and, um you know, $50,000 in corporate funding.
00:35:00
Speaker
February got, in February, Target also was the, you know, in a class action lawsuit but by the city of Riviera Beach Police Pension Fund, which alleged that they basically misled their investors by failing to disclose the risk of scaling back their DEI programs.
00:35:19
Speaker
Their stock dropped 12%. um Another pastor boycotted Target and spoke out about his experience and intentionality with PBS. And basically...
00:35:31
Speaker
they've been going through it because they decided to roll back all of these initiatives that they had put into place because they thought that it was necessary. um And in general, you know, this all can have an impact on not only just, you know, economic standards and obviously their economic viability as a chain, but also, you know, the impact they could potentially have on healthcare supplies.
00:35:56
Speaker
So ah specific and immediate um connection between anti-DEI efforts and healthcare supply disruptions is not yet evident. However, um potential risk could arise in the longterm.
00:36:08
Speaker
So it could stifle supplier diversity. um And if the backlash spreads to healthcare supply chains, it could um stifle diversity programs and limit opportunities for minority-owned medical supplies.
00:36:22
Speaker
And it could also reduce innovation. So, you know, these are all things that we looked up. We were trying to figure out, you know, really not only what was the consequence for Target in this scenario because they had this really rash reaction to new legislation, but also, you know,
00:36:37
Speaker
How has that impacted the medical community? Have you guys seen any supply chain issues? um And do you know if any like hospital patrons or whatever, or, you know, receiver supplies from any minority owned medical supply companies? So i just I guess what was your reaction?
00:36:53
Speaker
I want to add one little piece that also their CEO is stepping down amid all of this because he realized that he has brought them into an issue that he can't return them from. So on February 1st, 2026, he will be stepping down. He'll be getting replaced by the COO, the chief operating officer.
00:37:12
Speaker
And um yeah, all because Yaha was really, really eager to ah follow these anti-DI initiatives. All right, now we can get into the thoughts. I mean, I will say the question there's these questions is not relevant because I'm not worried about any supply chain issues from what target.
00:37:29
Speaker
just knew what i thought was but I'm not even purchasing anything from there. So I'm definitely not checking to see which hospitals are, you know, potentially getting things from target. I will say it's easier now because where I live, the closest target is like 20 minutes away. So I could just say that's too far. And I could just go to.
00:37:44
Speaker
the Walmart or I can go to a different, you know, store. Like I find alternatives. I do Amazon now. Like I've just found alternatives, but I think that like it ever since that happened, at least from a personal standpoint for me, I'm just like, yeah, let me see if someone else can, I can get it from somewhere else. Cause it's like, yeah,
00:38:01
Speaker
it was i went my way yeah know was so rash and like just they just did it too quick. You know what saying? i if I remember correctly, I believe that the original legislation that was passed said something about rolling back DEI initiatives and it probably gave them about of a three to six month window to accomplish that, you know? Y'all was done in like seven days.
00:38:29
Speaker
Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like it was announced. It was like like it was really out there. That's that's a heavy eagerness, you know. And. There's like and, you know, you didn't have to say anything right, but there is such an implied intent behind such a big move by a corporate giant like that.
00:38:51
Speaker
that yeah, yo, you you were kind of irresponsible to ah to to be so insensitive. You know what i'm saying? And yeah I think this is like a calm, gentle reminder of the power of community, right? like And the black dollar. boomor And the black dollar.
00:39:07
Speaker
Ultimately, so I'm not even going jack the black dollar just because DEI encompassed so many other people beyond us. I do think a lot of it may be us. yeah but yeah say but let's keep it at being we are majority that DEI. Like,
00:39:21
Speaker
You know what say? Like, I'm just trying to keep it real. Like, we are a majority of that DEI. Like, yes, Latinx is there. Yes. But ultimately, like, we are, if it wasn't, let's say, white people who were the main people who were consuming Target, we have to be next in line. The way that Black consumers are so prevalent. Like, we...
00:39:40
Speaker
hair products like there's so many things that we purchase and i think target had so much of that so i feel like we probably made up majority of that and i think even the more vocalness that i heard about the uh target's dei uh rollout it came mostly at least from the black community that's where i was hearing most of the opinions from it wasn't really i wasn't hearing much from other communities not say that they they didn't care about it but just that the voice seemed louder on our end so that's kind of why i'm saying you know I think we know for sure, for sure.
00:40:06
Speaker
But yeah, um, the power of collectively using our dollar in the same place or not using our dollar in the same place. um I had kind of forgotten, you know, I think it's been a while since we were able to successfully like impact the company to this degree.
00:40:24
Speaker
Yeah. It's a little refreshing. It's little fresh. What's wrong? Samisa, we did this recently. I'm forgetting something. You know, we slip and slide. We slip and slide sometimes. Don't try to say like sometimes it's the closest. Like we did this last year or something. was like, oh, shoot. I forgot the last boycott. I missed it.
00:40:46
Speaker
man and No, no, no. You're up to date on the boycotts. You're up to date on the boycotts. No, no No doubt. I got you. I got you. But I just wanted to also just add just real, real quick.
00:40:59
Speaker
Yeah, it was like it was just so quick. And I know we had all been in Target like in December. And you just had pride flags everywhere. And you had Black people and disabled people and all the different people at the margins of society. And then you come in January and you said, tear that down immediately. I know, immediately.
00:41:20
Speaker
It was so crazy. And it just, you know, it left you having no hope in this corporation that is obviously like a part of all of our lives. So like, it was like, okay, like, since you want to switch up so quick, we can too.
00:41:33
Speaker
Yeah. Big walls still down there. I'm still down there. Okay. Yep. and and And last point, last point.
00:41:44
Speaker
yeah I just think it's so tough because We actually used to enjoy this this place, you know? Like, like the girl the girls couldn't stay out of Target on a Sunday afternoon. You know what I'm saying? Calming, therapeutic.
00:41:59
Speaker
Like, what? Yo, like, but go going in there, shopping, you know, you browse, you pick, so oh, that's a nice throw pillow. Ooh, let me see this candle set. Ooh. You know what I'm You came in for two things left with 20. You know what I'm saying? Literally. Yeah. And you lost all that energy.
00:42:16
Speaker
Trying to my how and do the most Trying to do the most there you go There you go Lost all that energy trying to do the most I think that's really tough I think it's really tough Speaking of doing the most, one of everybody's ah most popular medications is facing some serious lawsuits and allegations.
Ozempic Lawsuit and Side Effects
00:42:37
Speaker
Yeah, you know which one I'm talking about. The one that everybody on. i Did y'all hear to own which one that? which which less Which one is everybody on? Because I want to see i want to see what people's thought processes are. Well, we say that everybody's on.
00:42:51
Speaker
The one that everybody's on. You know the one. The one. The one, you know the one. The which one? The one one or the one one one? The GOP one. The GOP one. Yeah, yeah. we We talking about that good old Zempick, y'all. Yeah, yeah.
00:43:05
Speaker
So um ah according to a San Diego-based personal injury attorney, Melinda J. Hellbrock, there's an issue on her website that she's put together a class action, basically, that's saying that, you know, Zempick is a great GOP-1 and it's a great antagonist group. sorry, great receptor agonist drug class for um the treatment of type two diabetes.
00:43:30
Speaker
And, you know, they've kind of also been prescribing it for weight loss and, you know, helpful for blood sugar control. However, it's been linked to some serious side effects, including gastroporiasis, ileus, and persistent vomiting, dehydration, gallbladder inflammation, gallstones, and pancreatitis and kidney injury. Wow. These are some serious side effects.
00:43:52
Speaker
that's a lot yeah yeah her team also cites how scientific articles had warned of these side effects had warned on these side effects and the fact they can be used in court when defending the multi-district litigation yeah um that's some serious stuff i think ozempic has you know it's become very prevalent very quickly and i i don't know i don't know if it's social media i don't know if it's like
00:44:21
Speaker
it's It's great marketing. So it does work. I think that's the first part, though. It does work. It really work. It works a little too well. Everybody has Ozempic look.
00:44:33
Speaker
would you know really If you know what I'm saying. That look. It really, really works. And I do think it's tough because... Are GLP-1s a new class of drug? I feel like they're a relatively new class of drug, no? They are not. They are not. It's actually tried and true diabetes, diabetes you know, drug. like the the the thing if So GLP stands for glucagon-like peptide.
00:45:00
Speaker
ah And basically it binds to a receptor called GLP-1. um where when it binds, it actually does something interesting where glucagon is known to be um a hormone that raises blood sugar, basically by stimulating glucose output in the liver um from the liver.
00:45:20
Speaker
um Pretty much the opposite of what insulin does, right? Where you're putting, when insulin is released, you're actually putting glucose back into the cell rather than releasing it into your bloodstream. So in this case, glucagon-like peptide binds to a receptor which actually stops glucagon release. So what would allow you to release sugar into your blood?
00:45:40
Speaker
And it also enhances insulin secretion. So you're getting to put out more of the hormone that tells your um sugar to go back into the cell instead of swimming around in your blood. And it does this in a very glucose dependent manner. So anytime you kind of eat food and increase your glucose levels,
00:45:56
Speaker
If you're on Ozempic, you're basically telling your body, OK, when I eat something, I want you to stop glucagon. So do not release any sugar into my bloodstream. And then also I want you to release insulin, which is going to help put my sugar back into the cell, which then helps out with obesity, helps with weight loss, helps with diabetes.
00:46:15
Speaker
So that's kind of how the drug really works. But it's ah it can be a bit confusing because it's almost like an oxymoron, like glucagon, which is pretty much sugar or saying that you're releasing sugar is in the name. But in reality, you're actually stopping glucose release. So a bit of an oxymoron.
00:46:32
Speaker
So yeah I think here's my thing about Ozampic, right?
00:46:39
Speaker
It's just another case of lack of medical literacy. Mm-hmm. Because when we learned what GLP-1 is, we know that that's how it acts, right?
00:46:50
Speaker
It's supposed to make you. Gastroparesis is just, hey, your stomach's just like, ah, I'm kind of full. I can't do anything. It slows gastric emptying. Like that's its intended effect. It's not a side effect. That's what it's supposed to do. That's what supposed to do. it's just, you know, and then in terms of like ileus, ileus is like, there's not an actual, like, um what do I call that?
00:47:14
Speaker
like mechanical obstruction or blockage in your body, your intestines are just like a little sleet. yeah Now, obviously, can it cause you symptomology? Yes, it can.
00:47:25
Speaker
um But like this is the intended effect of GLP-1 on the body. So in terms of her lawsuit,
00:47:36
Speaker
I don't know if it really has anything to stand on. With those particular things, because these are like intended effects of the drug. Now, whether or not it was properly explained to the patient that, hey, when you get on Ozempic,
00:47:50
Speaker
you are gonna feel sick. yeah Because your stomach isn't emptying. And then if you try to put a bunch of stuff in your stomach, you're gonna feel sick and then you're gonna wanna throw up. That's what it's supposed to do how you lose weight, right? yeah So, you know it's more so a case of like lack of medical literacy.
00:48:12
Speaker
How do you even tell the general public, hey, you're taking this drug to make you not want to eat and then it will make you lose weight. Right? Like, how do you explain that? I've explained that ad nauseam to like, and I've had family members that on those, epimpic or any so one of the glutides is what I call them.
00:48:27
Speaker
Mm-hmm. That's what it's supposed to do. You're not going to feel great because it's trying to train you to not eat as much. Right. And who's prescribing Ozempic disease? Exactly.
00:48:38
Speaker
How is the prescriber describing it to the person? How are they obtaining it? If you're obtaining it, like, not through a provider... Yeah. Yeah. I've been seeing some Instagram, oh, go get your quick Ozempic prescription. It's like, who...
00:48:53
Speaker
There's Ozempic churning mills now, I feel like, or you just go click on a link and you get Ozempic. And it's like, I thought you were go to a doctor. I thought you were supposed to get a physical and medical evaluation to even see, are you a candidate for Ozempic?
00:49:05
Speaker
So that way they should even be monitoring certain lab values if you're even on this drug. you know I'm trying to say? So it's like these side effects, I think have actually, like Samisa said, have already been established. Like I learned about these side effects when I was learning about GLP-1 agonists.
00:49:21
Speaker
um So I think that They're saying it as if it's something new that's specific to Ozempic, but it's specific to any drug within that class. And I think because of its wide prevalence where there's so many people now taking the drug, they're treating it as if it's, oh, everybody's experiencing the side effects. Y'all are probably all overdosing on Ozempic.
00:49:38
Speaker
So you know I think it's a very interesting thing too. um So I didn't throw this figure in there. It's a $2 billion dollars lawsuit for 1,800 plus patients with severe side effects.
00:49:50
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I remember somewhere in the FDA approval process that let 1% or less severe side effects is acceptable.
00:50:03
Speaker
If 1% or less of people that are taking your drug experience severe side effects, then that drug is doing what it needs to do. And, you know, those people are outliers. um We ain't going to get back to that curve again. But you know what I'm saying? that's that why That's that 3SD out there. You know what saying? Bring that bell curve back. So I'm here thinking, you know, with the mass quantity of people that are on Ozempic, under 2,000 severe cases,
00:50:29
Speaker
Y'all may have no case at all. And then $2 billion, dollars was like this sounds like yeah an attempted cash grab. I don't think they have a case, to be honest with you. It's sad, but I don't think they have a case. yeah you know And I think all this proves is that don't take medications without being monitored by a physician that you trust, that you feel like you can you know come back to if you're having these symptoms and side effects.
00:50:56
Speaker
If you're taking this from whoever on TikTok, When you are having this ah persistent nausea and vomiting that could very well be an ileus and you might need an NG tube, you're not going to know, hey, I should go get an NG tube to maybe decompress my stomach. Maybe I did too much with the OZEMP.
00:51:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I think this is an example of just you know too much of something can really be a negative
Medication Misuse vs. Domestic Violence
00:51:22
Speaker
thing. um I think this is one of those consequences of actions that haven't been thought through well and It can honestly be likened other things like domestic violence, where sometimes um you think you do the action, but you don't really think about the consequences.
00:51:39
Speaker
And so I do want to ah do want to bring up something that's happened recently with Sha'Carri Richardson, our track Olympian star. My good sis.
00:51:50
Speaker
Yeah. And you know, she, Shaqari, every time I hear her, if it's not Olympic is something negative. I'm like, girl, I want you to do better. Like I want better for you because I think she's such a star. She be winning her races. So that's what I'm saying. So if it's not about her, her career is then something that's like not pop you I'm trying to say? It's always something that's, and I just want better for her because she's such a star.
00:52:11
Speaker
Um, but unfortunately in this particular case, um, this is another example of it not being a positive thing So um recently um she was involved in a domestic violence arrest.
00:52:23
Speaker
um So according to MSNBC security foot footage of the July 27th scene at the airport shows Richardson shoving her boyfriend Olympic sprinter Christian Coleman into a wall and throwing something at him as the couple walked through a terminal.
00:52:36
Speaker
Though she was shoving him in full view of dozens of witnesses, including TSA agents working nearby, body cam footage captured Richardson lying to the respond responding officers that she hadn't touched Coleman.
00:52:46
Speaker
Even worse, she was recorded telling an officer, i can definitely have evidence of him assaulting me if possible. It's unclear what that refers to as none of the surveillance footage shows Coleman making contact with Richardson. An officer who submitted a report of the incident wrote, I was told Coleman did not want to participate any further in the investigation and declined to be a victim.
00:53:04
Speaker
um According to ESPN, she was then booked into South Correctional Entity in Des Moines, Washington for more than 18 hours. Her arrest was days before she ran the 100 meters at the US Championships in Eugene, Oregon. Like, girl, you just went straight from the correctional facility to your track meet. Like, what is going on?
00:53:20
Speaker
So, um... She then on Instagram said that she, um, like posted that she had put herself in a compromised situation. And then on Tuesday she wrote a written apology to Coleman on Instagram or holt saying, I love him. And to him, I can't apologize enough. She wrote, she wrote that her apology should just be as loud as her actions adding to Christian. I love you. And I'm so sorry. In her video, Richardson said, she's practicing self-reflection and refuses to run away, but face everything that comes to me head on.
00:53:49
Speaker
So this is a lot. Um, I don't know. I'm not in Shikari's relationship with this man. i don't know if he ever put his hands on her at any point. I don't know if she's the only one that's put her her hands on him.
00:54:01
Speaker
have no clue. So I'm not going to speak on something that I personally do not know. But I will say that if we're talking about this isolated event, this is domestic violence. um This does sound like also a toxic relationship as well. does it Like just based off of what I'm hearing and...
00:54:19
Speaker
the, you know, there, I can just tell patterns of when something is just not healthy and it doesn't sound healthy to me. yeah And I think it's a good time for us to just kind of talk about domestic violence because at least in the ED that shows up a lot, right. You have women, sometimes even men, but I don't, honestly speaking, I haven't seen a man yet, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. But I think typically women are the ones who kind of tend to be the ones to show up to seek help.
00:54:41
Speaker
They will come in. um, whether at with maybe for something medically that's happening, that's related to their domestic violence, that they don't want to actually be, you know, say straight out, Oh, this was because I was physically abused.
00:54:54
Speaker
But we find out through other hints and signs, the fact that they have maybe old bruises or old marks. Um, we have other examples of people in the media who have also been victims of domestic violence, Kiki Palmer, um, yeah Holly, it seems like with Holly and DDG.
00:55:11
Speaker
So this is one that really affects people at large. It affects our patients. It affects like people of color. It affects a lot of people. So I think, um, to kind of put it into more statistics, like domestic violence is linked to PTSD, anxiety, depression, and substance abuse for the victims of the abuse.
00:55:27
Speaker
We on the podcast do not condone domestic violence at all. We advocate for those who are victims of domestic violence. And we want people to feel like they can be supported. I don't know. I think with Shikari being such an icon and this happening in her situation, i i don't really know what to think.
00:55:47
Speaker
It kind of changes my perception of her a little bit, but I don't know. What is yeah what are you guys' thoughts about everything going on?
00:55:55
Speaker
um I mean, I think in general, like I said, i as time has gone on, I feel as though when you are a public figure, and I feel like I've said this like four times on this podcast or something, you have a responsibility.
00:56:10
Speaker
And you can't act like you just anyone in public and in private too. Like, let me not say do it. Like, I'm not saying you should do it in private, but for sure in public, like if somebody sees you doing something quote unquote out of character,
00:56:24
Speaker
like you shouldn't be surprised by backlash or anything of that nature. In this particular instance, I think it goes into a lot of different conversations, right? Like how do we view domestic violence against men, especially within you know our community, right? Is that something that's acceptable? Because you know they said Coleman didn't want to engage in and said he wasn't a victim.
00:56:47
Speaker
Right. And you also hear, like you said, the toxicity of probably this is some sort of violence that has happened between them. Right. Like it's not one sided. So there's that. Right. You're both professional athletes, emblems of America by being Olympians and women.
00:57:05
Speaker
you're acting out in in um in the airport, like, of course people are going to be, like, concerned. um So you can't just act like it's nothing. But then in terms of, I guess, how, you know, I've seen domestic violence, like, play out, like, I guess in my training, like, I think there's two instances or groups of instances that, like, really stuck out to me.
00:57:28
Speaker
On my, like, ambulatory rotation and, I was like, maybe my first week or something, I had a patient come in and she basically was like, oh, like I'm feeling very just like isolated in my home and all of these things, right? And I ended up talking to her a lot and it turns out that her husband happened to be a resident at the hospital. that And it became this conversation of how do we, you know, make her feel like she's safe to speak here in this space What is the conversation we need to have with the resident that's the husband?
00:58:04
Speaker
Like, what what where do we where do you act? And I think, you know, in that moment, I think we provided care to the person, looked out to what she wanted to do, and sort of moved on it from from that perspective and gave her the resources she needed.
00:58:19
Speaker
And then, you know, i kind of took that with me, but I also, like, you know, sometimes I go back and think, like, should we have done more? Did we do enough? All of those things, right? And then my other instance is I did a lot of pede surgery aways and with some of them they dealt with like pediatric trauma and sort of just seeing how that played out.
00:58:39
Speaker
It's just a super sad, like, experience, especially, you know, with, you know, kids. They're not only, you know, in this domestic violence situation, but they're also, like, an incredibly vulnerable population. Like, they can't seek out help for themselves. So if you see them here in this scenario, it's like, oh, like, the problem is usually too big to ignore.
00:59:01
Speaker
Yeah. So, you know, it's just... you have to try to look out for you have to be on the lookout and it doesn't matter like what specialty you are like try to screen for it as much as possible yeah um i'm just say from the public figure standpoint uh dv is bad right dv in the airport is like you don't care about anything at all and i think it could be indicative of like isabella said a more toxic relationship behind closed doors however um it does make me look at her a little bit different unfortunately you know she is somebody that i've been trying to root for
00:59:52
Speaker
um
00:59:55
Speaker
But some things are just like unacceptable. something They just leave a sour taste in your mouth. you know and I want to say that this one left a sour taste in my mouth. um I could tell, um based on the story that you gave Isabella, that he wasn't trying to escalate the situation. You know what I'm saying? um He declined being a victim. He wasn't really trying to you know give a statement. He wasn't trying to... You know further like further things, but like when there's surveillance footage that...
01:00:22
Speaker
kind of incriminates you to a degree that like you can't ignore it's one of those things where it's like yo like you have to practice more self-control like you like i think above all we have to like you know kind of be in a place where like we can never let anybody let us get that outside of ourselves you know oh a hundred where even if you're upset even if something happened even if oh yeah whatever whatever whatever yeah, you got to maintain some some some greater level of self-control, public figure or not.
01:00:52
Speaker
And I think it's our responsibility like on the podcast to definitely provide resources to any of those who either could be facing domestic violence or know somebody who's a victim of it and maybe is like unsure and or afraid to speak out.
01:01:06
Speaker
But um there's the National Domestic Violence Hotline, which provides 24-7 confidential and free support via phone, text, or chat. You can either call them at 1-800-799-SAFE
01:01:17
Speaker
That's 1-800-799-SAFE. Or you can text START to 88788. you can visit thehotline.org. There is also the National Center on Domestic Violence, Trauma, and Mental Health, which is a specialized resource for survivors dealing with the intersection of domestic violence, trauma, and mental health issues.
01:01:34
Speaker
There's also StrongHearts Native Helpline, which is a helpline for Native Americans and Alaska Natives experiencing abuse. There is the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline, which offers confidential twenty four seven support for anyone struggling or in crisis. You can call or text 988.
01:01:49
Speaker
And then there's the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration National Helpline, which provides free confidential but referrals for mental and substance use disorders. You can call 1-800-662-HELP.
01:02:01
Speaker
um Yeah. And I think we definitely um our heart our hearts goes out to anyone who is a victim of domestic violence or know somebody. and We hope that you are willing to get the help or resources that you need to move past and move forward from that.
01:02:16
Speaker
Yeah, ah thank you for providing all of that, Isabella. You know, we definitely want to make sure that you guys have that all available. um But, you know, just in terms of, you know, transitioning to our next topic, it's obviously, you know, another very serious topic, something that personally I have not experienced, but I guess technically I did.
Impact of Uterine Fibroids on Black Women
01:02:38
Speaker
We'll get into what I'm talking about. um But I really wanted to talk about uterine fibroids amongst black women. um Recently, ABC News, Lindsay Davis sat down with Tamar Braxton, so one of the Braxton sisters, Cynthia Bailey, one of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, and Dr. Sojeni Hawkins to discuss fibroids.
01:02:58
Speaker
Both cynia Cynthia Bailey and Lindsay have faced speculations of pregnancy due to the bloat that can be caused by um fibroids. Mm-hmm. Cynthia mentioned that a couple years ago, um she basically was, you know, out doing public appearances, but the fibroids themselves caused such a significant amount of bleeding that they not only bled through her tampon, but also her menstrual pad. And by the time she got to her elevator, she literally was like standing in a pool of blood and it was, you know, at her feet.
01:03:28
Speaker
um She recounts like, you know, getting to her old hotel room to shower and then just burst into tears. ah Tamar, you know, mentioned that her sister and her mom both had full hysterectomies and she cited frustration with the lack of open conversation in her family for treatment options.
01:03:44
Speaker
So first is getting into what are fibroids exactly. They're the most common non-cancerous tumors in women of productive age. They're made of muscle cells. um And other tissues that grow in and around the wall of the uterus or womb.
01:04:00
Speaker
The cause of fibroids is unknown. Risk factors include being African-American or being overweight. And some of the symptoms are heavier painful periods or bleeding between periods, feeling full in the lower abdomen,
01:04:14
Speaker
urinating often, ah painful sex, lower back pain, or infertility. And this is all you know cited from the CDC. ah The White Dress Project also states that, quote, living with fibroids can be isolating, but the truth is you're far from alone.
01:04:30
Speaker
By age 50, up to 90% of black women and 70% of white women will be diagnosed with fibroids. Even though no not everyone has the same symptoms or needs treatment, many women share similar experiences.
01:04:44
Speaker
And, you know, connecting with others who understand what you're going through can help. um They, you know, talk about considering going to events that they host or joining a support group um for people with uterine health conditions.
01:04:57
Speaker
um And then also there's another person that shared her fibroids journey um in the Society for Women's Health Research. And she said, Last year, at the age of 45, she found herself at a low point.
01:05:10
Speaker
Every month, she had a period that lasted 10 days, with pain and bleeding so severe that she'd be homebound for at least three of those days. She was often confined to the bathroom. She could hear her kids call out for her, but wasn't able to care for them or her husband.
01:05:24
Speaker
Pain radiated from her back to her legs. She was exhausted, had no energy, couldn't work, couldn't make dinner or even work out. And she couldn't continue life like that. And the worst part was that she couldn't really see a good solution.
01:05:37
Speaker
yeah So, you know, there's a lot of different, you know, ah anecdotes that we have for this. My personal anecdote with um fibroids is that my mom actually had a significant fibroid burden while she was pregnant with me.
01:05:51
Speaker
And her pregnancy was incredibly difficult throughout the whole time, apparently. And, like, there was talks about whether or not I would need to, you know, she would need to basically have me aborted because it was causing her significant distress. There was...
01:06:07
Speaker
You know, just problems got her pregnancy, right? Yeah. So I think eventually, you know, she was able to have me. Things wet okay. But, you know, she still talks to this day like my sister would be praying and being like, oh, my God. Like, what did mom do? Why did she feel like this? What's going on? Yeah.
01:06:25
Speaker
And I think eventually she ended up getting a myomectomy, which for the people on the podcast that don't know, where is yeah where is our resident OBGYN when you need her? literally, where is the baby? Basically, the difference between a hysterectomy and a myomectomy is that in the myomectomy, you're basically just...
01:06:44
Speaker
piecemeal taking out the fibroids and like dissecting it off of wherever it is on the fibroid. i mean, on the uterus versus a hysterectomy, which is when you take out the entire uterus.
01:06:55
Speaker
yeah um And usually when they're saying full, they're also taking out like your ovaries or your um or your fallopian tubes. um So again, like the fact that that's our options where you're either basically carving pieces of your uterus out or you're taking out the entire uterus and no one really knows what are the reasons why we're having this or that there's this prevalence in this community is something that's, you know,
01:07:22
Speaker
Very disheartening. And I think, you know, if you touch on anybody in this podcast, I don't know, i'm I'm generalizing. I'm sure you guys have heard a friend or an aunt or a sister or a mom that has fibroids and such a big issue.
01:07:36
Speaker
So I guess, you know, my question for you guys um is, you know, do you guys know anybody that suffers with fibroids? Have you guys had any conversations with people in your lives? Like, what is your, you know, discussion on this as well?
01:07:51
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely know, like, so many people with fibroids. Similar to you, my mother also had, like, very significant. Not, like, very significant. I feel like she first knew about it when she had my brother, like, the eldest brother as well.
01:08:04
Speaker
um And then I knew about, like, her best friend who had fibroids requiring um fibroid um removal, like, a pretty significant fibroid removal that required, like, a prolonged post-op stay. um So many Black women, like, go through, like...
01:08:19
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's like such a prevalent thing. So I think it's good that we're talking more about it and people are saying their personal, you know, experiences about it because like it's it's a lot more common people know.
01:08:31
Speaker
And it can actually have a lot more morbidity and kind of like suffering that people really know like it really is a burden for a lot of those women who are carrying fibroids that you know it's it's just it's it's kind of understated at i think at a lot of points and i think it's nice that we're kind of ah like talking about people's experiences our experiences and like if anyone's listening like knowing that it is something that is more common than you think so yeah that's my experience with fibroids
01:09:04
Speaker
I personally do not have any direct experience. um I think it's kind of common practice in West Indian populations to leave women's health issues circulating among the women.
01:09:17
Speaker
So I know of aunts that have the issue, but they kind of talk to it, um talk about it amongst each other, amongst the sisters, you know maybe with their mother or their daughters, but they kind of leave the men like out of those conversations.
01:09:29
Speaker
So, you know, I might challenge my West Indian listeners to inform the men in your lives about these things because I'm not going to lie. I'll be thinking all these West Indian women in my life is super women until I hear about something like this. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, she was going through that.
01:09:44
Speaker
You what saying? So like, you know, remind us every now and again, the child human. You feel me? Yeah. Yeah, and that this isn't something that's a fault of yours. Like, there's not anything that you could have done to really prevent it.
01:09:58
Speaker
um You know, so i just I just urge everybody to really, you know, stay as... um connected with your providers as possible. Do your annual checkups and just make sure you're checking on yourself and don't ignore our symptoms. If like you keep having painful periods, that's not normal.
01:10:21
Speaker
If you're bleeding and going through a bunch of, you know, menstrual products for your period, that's not normal. It's not just your period. Yeah. Seek help. Okay. So that's our, that's our public service announcement.
01:10:34
Speaker
hundred percent ah That was beautiful. That was beautiful. um I'm sure you've noticed by now, but this is a health centric podcast.
01:10:45
Speaker
And one of the traditions that we have on this podcast is that we are always going to do a health awareness month. So for the month of August, we are going to be getting into Global Black Mental Health Awareness Month.
01:10:58
Speaker
um This is a new one, actually. This was recently coined by the APA. So the American Psychiatric Association provides a series of fact sheets that highlight statistics around BIPOC mental health disparities.
01:11:10
Speaker
And i found some interesting ones. So stay with me. Stay with me. um Rates of depression are lower in Black and Hispanic communities at 24.6% and 19.6% respectively than in white communities at 34.7%.
01:11:27
Speaker
However, depression is more persistent in the Black and Hispanic communities.
Mental Health Disparities in Minority Populations
01:11:33
Speaker
Only one in three African Americans who need mental health care receive it.
01:11:38
Speaker
And American Indians slash or Naskan natives report... excuse me, higher rates of post-traumatic stress disorder and alcohol dependence than any other ethnic or racial group.
01:11:50
Speaker
So ah one, you know, excerpt from the Prime Revival Research Institute, it's not always talked about, but hormones play a major role in mental health. Fluctuations in thyroid hormones, estrogen, testosterone, and cortisol can drastically affect mood, energy levels, and emotional stability.
01:12:07
Speaker
Among minority populations, especially in Black and Latina women, there's a higher prevalence of undiagnosed, poorly managed thyroid disorders, which can mimic or worsen depression and anxiety.
01:12:20
Speaker
So, you know, there are resources. um There are resources which include Mental Health America's Resource List and the Reading List and the Mental Health Coalition's Black Emotional and Mental Health Collective,
01:12:37
Speaker
the Black Mental Health Alliance, the National Association for Mental Illness, the National Organization for People of Color Against Suicide, Therapy for Black Girls, that Therapy for Black Men,
01:12:48
Speaker
and
01:12:50
Speaker
the center for black women's wellness. That was quite the mouthful. So a lot of resources. Love it. A lot, a lot of resources, lot of resources. a very resource filled episode.
01:13:01
Speaker
So I wanted to pose, pose a question to you guys. um
01:13:09
Speaker
Do you notice a difference in depressive symptoms? In your black and Hispanic friends. Versus your white friends.
01:13:21
Speaker
Good question. um I think the way. From what I've. From the people I know. Who have like been depressed. Or going through depression. Or just going through low periods in life.
01:13:36
Speaker
It seems like. Black people are more trained to find ways to work through sadness, work through depression, kind of like not have the safety to feel like you can sit in that and talk about it as much, if that makes any sense, but just kind of like, how do you move forward? And I think we always think about moving forward rather than just like, how can we deal with the issue?
01:13:59
Speaker
I would say, I think the biggest difference has been like the approach and how it's dealt with. And I think because In some black families, therapy or kind of have be feeling weakness or feeling like, hey, I need time is not always encouraged. And you they kind of want you to push through sad moments in life.
01:14:20
Speaker
And I think that then lends into like unhealthy practices where there's more buildup of that because you never really addressed it versus from what I see of like maybe non-black friends or ah people that I know where those things are discussed more. It's kind of more encouraged to like talk about what's bringing you down and figuring out how to like deal with it, deal with that emotion.
01:14:42
Speaker
And so it's something even me as I've gotten older, I've had to like learn how to manage that. Um, like in a healthy way and not in a way that's like kind of brushing it under the rug because like, i feel like in Nigerian culture, what, what is depression? What are you sad about? You know, it's like you have a roof over your head. You have food on the table. can't make you cry.
01:15:03
Speaker
ah It's like growing up like my parents would say like, you're you're like, how old are you to be depressed? What have you gone through in life to even be depressed? You know, they kind of see it as a joke in a way. And it's like, there's so many things in life that can bring you down. and And to me, I see depression as like a chemical imbalance in the brain.
01:15:21
Speaker
And sometimes it is something that like actually does really need the same way that you would treat if you have like a ah viral viral infection, like you kind of sometimes want to treat when your mind's just not there.
01:15:31
Speaker
Um, so yeah, I think it's cultural, it's ethnic. There's so many things that play into the way we approach depressive symptoms. And I do think I've noticed a difference from that standpoint, for sure.
01:15:44
Speaker
Got you. Anything from you, Simuza? Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, we always talk about, you said it earlier, you you think that the West Indian women that have been around you can sometimes be superhuman. So I feel like we extrapolate that to all types of health problems. It could be mental health problems. It could be any sort of physical ailments that people are just expected to sort of power through it. And then there's almost like this culture of shame. If it's something that isn't depression, right? It's something that, you know, manifests itself in a more psychotic way, right? Like the the the cousin or the uncle that, you know, may, you know, have symptoms of schizophrenia or or any of those other symptoms where it is more, you know, visible, right?
01:16:31
Speaker
the the mental illness, it's still kind of taboo and not talked about. um I mean, i you know for me personally, I do have people in my family that suffer from psychiatric conditions like schizophrenia, right? And it's very difficult for me when I hear other people in my family sort of talk about it in like not necessarily a shameful way, but almost like Oh, here hear crazy blah, blah, blah, go again. like no like she needs help. We need to figure out how to engage with her in a way that makes her seek treatment. like One of my cousins right now like basically won't take her meds, right and it's causing her significant distress.
01:17:13
Speaker
And she'd been well controlled for a real long time on her antipsychotics and something happened and she just stopped taking it. And it's manifested itself in a lot of different ways.
01:17:23
Speaker
Right. And trying to sort of navigate that situation in a West African family who, you know, they They can clearly see the effects, but they're not necessarily, like, taking it all into account. Like, hey, like, what how can we help? It's more like, I want it away from me. Yeah. Like, how do you navigate that, right? Because, like, especially if you're not there, like, this person needs help, like.
01:17:50
Speaker
Yeah. In in inpatient psychiatric hold. Right. Until she regulates back to her levels. Like. Right. But you know it's something that's a continuous process. And I think it's only going to be helped by like just continually talking
Treating Mental Health Like Physical Health
01:18:06
Speaker
about it with family. Like this isn't a shameful thing. It's like would you if somebody was coughing and had a fever would you let them not go to the hospital.
01:18:13
Speaker
A hundred percent. No. You take them to the emergency room. We try to figure out what's going on Same thing. Yeah. I agree. um Kind of like for final thoughts on the subject, I think that, you know, this is one of the more recent ah mental health, well, more recent health awareness, health awarenesses that has been coined um Global Black Mental Health Awareness Month.
01:18:36
Speaker
And I think the ah the most interesting line that i that I saw was that one about how even though we experience less, We experience it at lesser rates. It's more persistent, you know? And I think that that really like hones in on that same idea that you guys were saying about how we kind of just try to go through the mental illness instead of addressing it and putting it behind us, you know?
01:19:06
Speaker
It's not anything like, you know, where we're very taught to ah be resilient and not let anything stop us. So that's one of those things where...
Promoting Open Conversations on Mental Health
01:19:16
Speaker
It doesn't have to be seen as weak or negative or less than if you take a moment for yourself, address whatever may be bringing you down, giving you some kind of issue and then kind of coming up with a plan for how you can move forward in a better way. You know what i'm saying?
01:19:33
Speaker
100%. Yeah. And then I think it's just one of those... ahead. No finish. I just think it's one of those things where like ah having the Health Awareness Month encourages us to like have these conversations and keep the conversation open.
01:19:48
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. And when your foreign or non-foreign parent is like, therapy is the devil, be like, it's not. If I need it, I will be using it to stand your ground and kind of just as much as you can bring awareness as well.
01:20:07
Speaker
And then hopefully everybody will be aware or we'll try to be more aware. Yeah.
Family Perspectives on Therapy
01:20:12
Speaker
You can be the one that changes this the tone for your family if they're not hip to the idea yet. You know, you can be the one to start that that change.
01:20:20
Speaker
Would you ever do therapy with parents?
01:20:24
Speaker
My current living parent, and I don't think he would ever do it. Like bring him with you? Extend the invite. It could be interesting. but mother I feel like that would leave that I would leave there more traumatized from my therapy session. I'm going to lie.
01:20:40
Speaker
I said it to my mom. My mom said she would be open to it. I thought that was interesting. That's so cute. That's nice. That's nice. i was I was halfway playing, but now I'm halfway not. When I brought it up to my mother, you know, when she was still walking this earth, she told me like, why don't you bring it to God? So I just feel like that's two that's the general consensus from what I know my family. And you know, similar to what you said to me. So like, I also have like a relative who suffers from like very severe depression who had to be like hospitalized. yeah
01:21:11
Speaker
But if we still keep on circling back to these conversations about like bringing, you know, making it more of a religious thing, but it's like, why can't we address this from a medical standpoint? God created science, created medicine, you know? it's odd.
01:21:25
Speaker
That's everything. Every time I say it, yes, let's have God. Jesus, love him. He's good. Trinity, we get it.
01:21:36
Speaker
Right. We can get some medicine in there. 100%. It's really not a problem. in the medicine. Please throw in the medicine. Like, it's really like, it Let's and both. But no, like my speaking of this question you posed, my mother, love her damn.
01:21:53
Speaker
She's literally a healthcare professional herself. I'm sure she has actually told people to go to therapy. This lady was like, I'll be so disappointed if I hear you went to therapy.
01:22:06
Speaker
Ha! oh I'm sorry. guys That just sounds so legit. I can literally believe that. I can literally believe that. I honestly think my parents are probably on the more progressive side of like West Africans.
01:22:22
Speaker
But like it's just to them, I think it just seems like the ultimate like just lack of belief in God and personal failure to like have to talk to somebody about your problems.
01:22:34
Speaker
yeah I'm like, bro, like... Honestly, you should probably go. You should be the first in line. There's probably some things you could work out. But, you know, I pick my battles sometimes. And, you know, sometimes I really stand my ground. And sometimes i'm like, you know what?
01:22:54
Speaker
We're not doing this tonight. Okay. Okay. I'll let you have that one. I love you, though. but I love you, though. I love you, though.
Show Closing and Engagement
01:23:02
Speaker
Deep. and on And on that note, that's our show.
01:23:06
Speaker
Thanks so much for joining us on this very, very informative episode of The Lounge. Let us know your thoughts about the discussions we had today or ask us a question for a chance to be featured on the show by emailing us at podcast at snma.org.
01:23:23
Speaker
Be sure to follow the S&M on all our social media platforms to stay up to date on upcoming events. Bye, guys. Later, everybody. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening.