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Kickin' it with Dr. Storch
2 Playsin 12 hours
Kickin' It in the Lounge is back in a big way! From the D.O. or D.O. Not Podcast, Dr. Ian Storch, D.O., takes a seat in The Lounge to discuss the realities of the world of Osteopathic Physicians, life as a doctor and podcaster, and more! He is joined by the Lounge's in house D.O. Dr. Aldwin Soumare, D.O. Join these gentlemen for a spirited conversation about what is real in the field.
To take a listen and/or stay connected with Dr. Storch's podcast, click here!
To share your thoughts on our discussions or if you have any questions to ask our hosts, email podcast@snma.org for a chance to be featured on the show!
Disclaimer: The views expressed in this podcast represent only those of the hosts, and do not represent the views of the Student National Medical Association.
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Transcript
Introduction and Host Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Kick It in the Lounge, the podcast where we sit back, relax, and get to know the faces behind the Student National Medical Association.
00:00:33
Speaker
a little bit different today. Jared is on on, so I'm taking over just for one day. But Jared will be back. I know you guys are probably going to be missing him. But I'm your host, Dr. Alderman Samari Adio.
Special Guest Introduction
00:00:44
Speaker
And today, we've got a special guest joining us in the lounge. Dr. Ian Storch. Here in the lounge, we talk about the work, the wins, and the wisdom, but also the stories, the laughs, and the moments that make us who we are. So let's grab a seat, get comfortable, and let's kick it.
00:01:04
Speaker
and Without further ado, we got Dr. Ian Storch in the building. We are so elated and excited to have a fellow podcaster here. here with us to share his expertise, his experience and wisdom and talk about the DO or DO not podcast.
00:01:22
Speaker
So without further ado, Dr. Ian Storch in the building, let's go. Thank
Purpose of 'DO or DO Not' Podcast
00:01:26
Speaker
you, thank you, Aldwin. And and youre you're a fellow DO, so you're gonna like kind of pretend you're in the background, but you have some idea what I'm gonna say on some of these answers, right?
00:01:35
Speaker
I would hope so. you know i gotta um I'm not going to lie. In psychiatry, I need to you know use my skills much more fully and ah and and impactfully. So I hope to learn from you so that I can implement some of the methods that you're talking about as well. So I got to get back to the drawing board.
00:01:53
Speaker
I appreciate that. All right. So um kick it off. Tell me. yeah Yeah, sure. and so So what made you start the deal D.O. ah d Not Podcasts?
00:02:04
Speaker
Yeah, so we call it, you know, there's two names for it, Aldwin. Some people call it Do or Do Not Podcast, and some people call it D.O. or Do Not Podcast. So those are kind of where we are. i i get i like, yeah, no, no worries. No worries. I like D.O. or Do Not. That's kind of my ah interpretation. But basically, you know, I went to osteopathic school,
00:02:29
Speaker
and Yeah, I had a great experience in in med school. I ended up, you know, things are different now. Now we have a combined match for DOs and MDs. So there's really one set of residency programs. But when I was going through, there was two sets of residency programs. There was residency programs for DOs and residency programs for MDs. Mm-hmm.
00:02:51
Speaker
and I didn't have any strong feeling into which I wanted to do, but ultimately when I figured out through my rotations that I wanted to be a gastroenterologist, there were like five DO GI i programs and they were all in like Utah.
00:03:08
Speaker
So that wasn't what I wanted to do. i wanted to really get the most out of my GI i education. I wanted to do an amazing fellowship and set myself up for my career. So to
Inspiration Behind the Podcast
00:03:19
Speaker
do that, I found that I needed to do an allopathic ah fellowship So I did it an allopathic, you know, again, at the time it was called an allopathic residency. I was chief resident. You know i ran the program at an allopathic hospital.
00:03:33
Speaker
well Most of the other residents were were MDs. And then I did an allopathic fellowship. at University of Miami, which is i absolutely amazing. Almost as good as California. I guess we could argue that back back and forth. Miami's pretty nice. Yeah, for sure. Right?
00:03:53
Speaker
and And the fellowship was spectacular the training was spectacular. And then I went into practice and... At some point, sometimes I like take a little pause and think about my life and think like, what am I not doing? Or what could I be doing? Or what should I be doing? And I took this pause and...
00:04:13
Speaker
My thought was, you know I went to allopathic training for for most of my postgraduate work, but the DOs really set me up for success and I owe everything that I am to the osteopathic community and I'm not doing anything osteopathic.
00:04:32
Speaker
So I was talking to my wife, who's not interested in any of my nonsense. She thinks I'm a little nutty, which she's probably right. But you know she said, she said i don't even know what that means, doing something osteopathic, but I'm sure you could figure it out. If it bothers you, you just do something osteopathic. Mm-hmm. So my thought was, I like podcasts and there was a podcast that I really enjoyed called How I Built This, which is a NPR podcast where they interview entrepreneurs. And I was sort of so interesting hearing like the origin story of how someone, you know, you see someone when they're successful, but how'd they get there? So, you know, my thought was,
00:05:12
Speaker
Why do people, why do young people choose to go to medicine and how do they pick their specialty? You know, it's always about mentorship and it's always about connecting with another doctor or usually and saying like, I want to be like them. And my thought was, you know, a lot of people may not have access to DOs. A lot of people, or young people may not know what a DO is, right? They're going through college. You just know they want to be a doctor. so I thought it'd be great. And I have a few friends ah that came to me off the top of my head that I'm like, these guys are great. If you met these guys, you would want to be a deal. If you were a young person that was going to med school and you met any of these people, you'd say, I want to be like them. I want to be deal. And,
00:05:57
Speaker
and I thought, wouldn't it be great to have a podcast where we interview my friends so that the masses could hear them and and like talk to them and and get a perspective and and maybe that would help them on their journey.
00:06:13
Speaker
And about
Roles of Osteopathic Medicine
00:06:14
Speaker
the same time, I had a a resident come to me, actually a medical student at NYTCOM called me because I give a lecture at NYTCOM. And I always say like, if you need anything, if you want to mentor, you know want to research, call me. So this young man called me.
00:06:32
Speaker
He's a first gen, Chinese American, know, his parents, parents from China and, and he's at NYT comm and he decides he wants to be a gastroenterologist. So he calls and he says, look, I want a research project. Would you help me? So I said, come to the office and we'll talk, you know, same, same time. And he came to my office and I said, listen, I have some great GI research that we could do, but I also have this spectacular idea for a podcast. And I pitched him on it.
00:06:59
Speaker
And he was so confused. There's actually, if you want to read a little story, we published a little story in the DO maybe last year. Yeah, yeah. there's a it's It's called ah Every Mentor Needs a Student.
00:07:14
Speaker
Okay. Yeah, so if you want to read it, it's a little more in depth. Yeah. He was like, why would you want to d why you want to do a Dio podcast? Like, what why? why you know and i and I gave him the same explanation I just gave to you. and i I love him. His name is Tian Yu Shea. And Tian Yu said, let me think about this a little bit and get back to you, which is always a good answer, right? And I respected that. Right? yeah Don't jump in. Don't say yes or no. Go think about it. So he thought about it and he came back and he said, you know what, Storch? I'm in.
00:07:46
Speaker
I'll do it. Right? So, and you know, so we started doing the podcast and the pandemic hit. So I had a lot of free time and we really got things off the off the ground at that time. And then and then we we got about 20 students, we always have about 20 students working on the podcast at any one time. We're now, five yeah, we're now, we're going into our sixth year. we have, were we're pushing, you know, 200-ish episodes and, you know, 150,000 listens. Like, you know, we're doing pretty well. So we touched a lot of people, but I always feel like we can touch more people, which is why I'm so appreciative that I'm here with you today.
00:08:27
Speaker
Yeah, no, certainly. And i think, um thank you for sharing like your journey and in this process as a podcaster as well. you know It's not easy. We face so many challenges and just even to galvanize individuals to empower and encourage our communities. It's incredible feeling.
00:08:45
Speaker
I wanted to also ask you in regards to osteopathy, we talked about it briefly. And for me as a psychiatrist, I want to be an integrative psychiatrist, holistic healer of sorts. And that's why what beckoned me to go to DO school is utilizing not just pharmacotherapy, but yoga. you know, um meditation. There's also a field called nutritional psychiatry as well, where we think about serotonin and tryptophan and what we eat and how that affects our mind. But from your perspective, how does osteopathy show up in your practice in gastroenterology, but also from your um interviews with others, how does it show up in a variety of other fields as well?
00:09:26
Speaker
Yeah, so again, I am an allopathically trained gastroenterologist. So sometimes people will come in to see me and they'll say, this is not frequent, but sometimes they'll say, look, I chose you because I wanted an osteopathic gastroenterologist because I want a different approach. I can't say that, you know, I do endoscopies, colonoscopies, my polypectomy is no different than anybody else. Yeah. Yeah. We give propofol for procedures, people are sleeping. and And in that way, I don't think there's a difference. However, the philosophy to medicine
00:10:01
Speaker
which a lot of MDs have. I mean, i always, i never want to sound condescending toward an MD or that we're better than MDs. It's just our training, the osteopathic training, and you know this, Aldwin, is you know all about the patient. you know It's all about the patient looking at the whole patient, mind, body, spirit.
00:10:19
Speaker
And you know sometimes I'll say these things to my son and my son will like roll his eyes at me. like yeah He wants to go to med school, but he He doesn't know exactly where he wants to go, what he wants to do. And he's like, you just, so osteopathic sounding, but it it's like, it becomes part of you and it becomes part of your approach to the patient. Again, there are MDs that, you know, should have an honorary DO on their badge without without having gone to DO school. But I think in general, we are taught to look at the whole patient and it does sound a little cliche sometimes, but I think that's true.
00:10:54
Speaker
for So for me, there's there's nothing outside of that, except I always talk about my son has a bad back. And years ago, he asked me if I could do some OMM on his back, which is definitely not my forte, but I did it.
00:11:08
Speaker
yeah And I still have some skills. And and every once in a while when his back's really bad, he like lays down on the floor. and wants me to do some HVLA on him. like he He likes the high high velocity kind of rack them and crack them kind of stuff, which I don't know if all DOs do anymore, but like I still do it, he likes it, it's fine.
00:11:26
Speaker
Getting past that in the interviews, you know it's amazing. we We interview
Overcoming Professional Hurdles
00:11:32
Speaker
doctors that practice standard medicine. we We interview people like you, Aldwin, who you know another part of the DO distinction is I believe that we're a little more, because we learn manipulation, we're more open-minded to other complimentary therapies, right? And complimentary, just for those listening, that's different than alternative, right? Alternative is like, I'm not gonna do therapy. I'm gonna like stand on my head for two hours, right? I'm gonna do something else, alternative. And then maybe, you know, if if you're bipolar, you're like, okay, I'll take lithium, but I'm also going to do some nutritional therapy that's complementary to other therapies. So the difference between a DO and and another alternative practitioner, we'll call it we'll call it that, is that most DOs practice more complementary medicine, meaning you do the standard plus.
00:12:23
Speaker
And again, for us, it's we're trained OMM, but I think we have that open mind. So all the DOs I interview, I really feel like, you know, even if it's a radiologist, you know, there's some ways that the DO philosophy infiltrates their thought process.
00:12:37
Speaker
But, you know, there there are DOs that just do OMM, which is so cool and amazing. and And the difference, again, not putting down any other practitioners, but someone like a chiropractor is really trained mostly in chiropractic manual medicine. you know They do get some background in the medical field, but most of their education is not in pharmacotherapy, surgery, you know all that stuff's a little limited. A deal is a complete physician. So it's even if they're not using and the ah standard medical treatment, they've been fully trained and are licensed potentially in that. And then they're they're practicing manual medicine with that knowledge. So if somebody comes in with back pain and you know they're jaundiced, they're gonna know that you know that might be pancreatic cancer and they shouldn't be cracking their back you know or or something like that. I think like that fund of knowledge is
00:13:29
Speaker
broader and and adds a little extra to those doctors that are practicing just manual therapy. And then i call, i the term, I don't know people love the term, I love the term, I call it a hybrid DO. So there are some DOs that we've interviewed that I love, right? there There's a guy named Gerard Balthazar, for example. He's a trauma surgeon at and NYU who, he does manipulation for patients to decrease narcotic requirements for post-op pain. He does manipulation, yeah like rib raising techniques and things to help people breathe better post-operatively to help them get off a ventilator quicker. So yeah he's very into again that complementary piece and it's amazing to see him using that in his specialty we also interviewed a doctor named kenneth you who's at ucla so he's from california like you aldwin um but he you know he's a neurologist he did internal medicine at cleveland clinic he was at mayo clinic he's got a pedigree like you wouldn't believe and he's now practicing in california
00:14:36
Speaker
doing neurology, post-stroke neurology, and for, you know, to help mobility and to help patients post-stroke. So he's not giving them, you know he's doing standard therapy in the middle of a stroke. He's not saying, look, this patient shouldn't have TPA. He's saying, look, having stroke, give them TPA. But then afterward, when they come to see him post-stroke and they have limitations in mobility, he's using osteopathic manipulative therapy to increase increase the patient's functionality after the stroke. So yeah, it's amazing. It's really cool stuff.
00:15:06
Speaker
Yeah, i think that that that that goes to show you how ah fast osteopathic medicine can be. and And even hearing about the trauma surgery, that's like the last place, right? Where you have patients are destabilized, may need a chest tube, et cetera, et cetera. And he's able to facilitate that. So the the beauty of of being a DO, even for myself as a psychiatrist,
00:15:27
Speaker
I still see things like I still use my stethoscope, listen to heart and lung sounds. I still check for pedal edema. We have a technique for that. And even in GI world, right? Peristaltic motion, right?
00:15:38
Speaker
Netting and threatening threading through the colon when someone is having constipation. So there's always opportunity to utilize your skills. With that being said, now that we see that D.O.' 's are becoming recognized, even for myself. You know, I'm walking around with my badge with D.O. on. I've been, you know, um told, hey, I'm proud of you. Thank you for practicing holistic medicine. I was like, i can't take Philly, the holistic medicine side. I'm trying. I'm trying.
00:16:02
Speaker
But with that being said, do you feel at this present time that there's less of a stigma regarding D.O.'s? I mean, 100 years ago, 150 years ago, D.O.' 's were not well known, but they were trained just as highly established as as MDs were, but now it seems like things may be changing. But what are your thoughts on that?
Navigating a Medical Career as a DO
00:16:21
Speaker
Yeah. So I think that yeah it's interesting. So first of all, i would say for all DOs that are listening, we should all be appreciative of, and and I don't have any pitch for for young ah DOs, but You know, some of them are unhappy about this, like the boards, this, you know, we can talk about those things. But ultimately, you're standing on the shoulders of giants and you have to appreciate that it's great that you're just walking into this profession. But there are people that fought tooth and nail, proud DOs whose shoulders you're standing on. I think you always have to take a second just to appreciate that. So, yeah, at the beginning, you know there are there are times, this is way before me, where there were osteopathic hospitals, where DOs actually had to open hospitals in order to be able to do residencies. They weren't allowed in certain places in allopathic schools. They didn't have licensure in every state. So, you know, again, those are things that that we have to appreciate as DOs, that people fought for us to have this.
00:17:21
Speaker
Right. When I went and people ask, you know, sometimes students will ask me, you know, about competitive residencies and and things like this. You know, I think the bottom line is as a DO, you can do anything, but you know, nobody's walking into like a dermatology residency. So, you know, sometimes I hear DOs like, oh, it's hard, but you know, it's hard if you're an MD, like these things are hard. And it's, ah it's not like you just wake up one day, send in an application. I'm like, oh, You're a great guy. You're a great gal. Come do DERM. You're fighting against like the best of the best. So DO or MD, it's difficult.
00:17:57
Speaker
DOs are... are you know Most of the schools, the mission statement is to train primary care docs. So I think if you go into osteopathic medicine, you have to understand that that's what they do. But you do have the opportunity to train in any specialty in medicine.
00:18:12
Speaker
And when I was going through, you know, so I've been, I've been a doctor for, I believe this is like 25 ballpark, 25 years, you know, about 20 years post fellowship. Like, so I've been in practice 20 years plus med school of residency and all that stuff.
00:18:29
Speaker
But you know, when I was going through, there was not a lot of stigma. Again, I'm an internist. I was in internal medicine. it was fine. when I applied for my GI fellowship, the, the, and this was one person. So there was one person who really made it difficult for me to get a GI fellowship in my institution. And that was just a bias on the part of that one person. um And then I ended up again getting my GI fellowship at University of Miami. They opened their arms to me and trained me, and I appreciate them ah for giving me my GI training. But I think, you know, once in a while you're going to run into someone who has a stigma, just like they may have a stigma because you're ah purple, because you wear glasses, because you're, you know, fill in the blank. Like, you know, there are always going to be biases. But I think to answer your question, as DOs,
00:19:18
Speaker
become, you know we're 25% of the physician pool graduating, which is huge. So the number of DOs is increasing. I think people's understanding, ah you know people MDs work with great DOs. I think you know that's making everything better.
00:19:38
Speaker
And certainly, you know, there are things that we will smooth out, but i think the combined residency and all of us going into one residency pool is a huge step for us to say, listen, there is no difference in quality of education between MD and DO. And it's so smooth and there's so little difference that everybody's just going to apply for the same residency programs.
00:20:04
Speaker
Yeah, I was ah
Impact of Podcasting in Medicine
00:20:05
Speaker
just, but I think, i graduated two years, but my initial class was 2021. But 2020, I believe, was the first year where they had a combined DO and MD ARAS application. So I was right around the cusp of that. And that made huge, tremendous changes for us all in streamlining it. But also now we see there are residencies that have applied for DO recognition, too. I believe University of minnesota Minnesota has like a family medicine residency that has like a specific DO recognition track for MDs that want to learn OMM as well. So um I think it's incredible. The sky's the limit, what we're leading toward. I have phenomenal colleagues in plastic surgery, neurosurgery that are DOs as well. So I do agree with you that regardless of whatever specialty, you're going to find your challenges, but it's up to you to put in the work.
00:20:56
Speaker
That's necessary to get to where you want and be the physician that you dream. But for you, you mentioned briefly a challenge that you face in terms of being ah um trying to get into GI fellowship. But what would you say was the greatest challenge you faced as a D.O.
00:21:11
Speaker
in medicine? Yeah, so again, i did I had this, my ah med school is great. you know i i did When I did my rotations, yeah when I applied, again, I'm first gen. So for better or worse, my son is, and it's so funny that it's a catchphrase now, but I kind of get it because I did it. And and it's interesting to me, I think, and I'm going off on a tangent, I apologize, but there's like, no you know, their challenge. Yeah, this challenge is the first gen and this challenge is the second gen. You know, my son's my sons my son's obviously second gen and, you know, i I like what I do, but, you know, his uncle, my brother-in-law,
00:21:47
Speaker
yeah he tells him like maybe you should go into finance, you know? like So so yeah yeah, you know, so it's interesting. But i again, I was first gen, I didn't really know what I was getting into. i wanted to, you know, i did some research just like you all do. And I agree with everything you're saying, I was like nutrition, I liked healthcare care maintenance, you know, I was a big like martial artist. I liked like, you know, kind of having an open mind towards everything. And I read up on DO School. And I was like, this is this is me, this is what I wanna do.
00:22:18
Speaker
i went to osteopathic school, I loved it. i I went into my residency, again, I got chosen as chief residence. was like top of my class, you know they blessed me with, yeah, letting me teach for a year. And you know mostly mostly MDs.
00:22:34
Speaker
and And then you know again, I applied for GI i my second year before I did chief and I and i didn't get a spot. And it was tough. you know Again, I'm getting back to that whole point. you know we've We've interviewed people on a podcast and sometimes they'll be like, oh, you know it's a little biased you know against DOs for say orthopedics. And then somewhere in the interview, they say that they failed step one twice. so yeah And again, that's fine that they failed step one twice, but like you know in order to get that orthopedic residency, still ye you you can't do that. like you know You need to lock yourself in the library and you need to kill it. And if you can't kill it,
00:23:09
Speaker
You know, like, why do you deserve that spot over somebody else who who locked himself in the library and did all did all the extras? You know, I don't think that's fair. But for me, I did all the extras. I did everything I could. i didn't get a spot. It was fine. They offered me chief resident.
00:23:25
Speaker
I took it and you know for those of you that don't know, chief is like a big honor in internal medicine. that They're having to stay and teach the class and and the reward is usually that you get the fellowship of your choosing. So you know I'm like a and no BS loud mouth kind of guy. So I went and I was very proud that I got this spot. I went to the the chief of GI and I said, listen, I'm gonna be chief. you know I appreciate he and give me the spot. I wanna do GI i here next year. And he said something like,
00:23:52
Speaker
ah you'll have a really good shot you know at at the spot if you reapply. And I closed the door and I said, just tell me you're not giving me a spot because I'm a DO. And he said, I'm not giving you a spot because you're DO. That was basically the discussion.
00:24:06
Speaker
So you know again, you know yeah so that I think that was the biggest hiccup. but You know, I don't like taking no for an answer. And, you know, like, how how am I going to figure this out? You know, I was a little sad. You know, I thought about going to law school a little. I think I told you earlier, I'm a little crazy sometimes. i wife ill tell you But I had some other ideas. But ultimately, I'm like, how I need to get a GI spot. It's super competitive. Everybody's taking in-house. My in-house won't take me. What am I going to do?
00:24:35
Speaker
So I said, you know what? I need to become in-house somewhere else. Mm-hmm. And how am I gonna do that? So, you know I basically, long story short, I went to University of Miami for a month. i I work with them for a month.
00:24:46
Speaker
and And at the end of the month, they offer me a GI spot. So I figured it out. But, you know, again, as far as like University Miami, did they care that I was? No, they i I love the program. They love me. Like I had a great three years there. Again, great yeah teachers, great mentorship. it was a great place to train. um But, you know, I think that goes for anything, Aldwin. Like, again, no matter what.
00:25:11
Speaker
you know There's always going to be biases. you're go to every if you go If you're Harvard trained all the way through, you're going to hit a road bump at some point somewhere. like Everybody hits a road bump and and it's just a matter of how you deal with those problems. And again, some people, like I have friends that that wanted to do GI that were DOs, that i've people that wanted to do GIs that were MDs and they didn't get a spot and they didn't do what I did. And I don't judge them. for it. You know, they say, you know what i'm I'm not doing this again. i did the best I could. I'm going to do internal medicine and they have great practices and they're, they're, they're awesome, you know? So even though I hit that hiccup, that speed bump, roadblock, whatever you want to call you know, I figured out a way around it, but some people just pivot and you know, there are always options. So that, that was my biggest difficulty and thank God it worked out.
00:26:02
Speaker
Power perseverance, I think it's so important. c Incredibly ah a neglected instinctual skill that we must learn and adapt to certain circumstances and having belief in ourselves. Because ah for myself, I've had you know ah a long road in challenges. ah i was in a neurology residency initially and left due to malignancy and toxicity.
00:26:25
Speaker
And then i always wanted to do neuropsychiatry. And then I transitioned to applying again to psychiatry. And then I soaked into a family medicine position and then reapplied again the third time and finally was able to transfer to a psychiatry residency where you feel I'm loved and I appreciate, I love my program. I love everything they do for me. have mentorship. So I think sometimes in the short run, you're thinking like, oh, this is not working out, that ah I'm not going to be the physician I dream of. But if you could continue to push forward and propel yourself to where you need to, that things will look brighter each and every day.
00:27:04
Speaker
Right. Exactly, Aldwin. And I love your story. I appreciate you. And I appreciate you sharing that. But I think that's where it's important, you know, and and that's where the podcast comes in, is that, you know, you not you see someone again, an MD from who went to ah Harvard med school. They're at Harvard.
00:27:24
Speaker
Mayo Clinic for residency doing neurosurgery and now they're in practice. Like that's what you see. but there's a backstory there somewhere. And even if even if they had an easy straight path, like what sacrifices did they make to get to that place? Like you're not seeing, you know, my son is like a hardworking dude. The kid gets good grades. He's got good SAT scores, but he's in the library Saturday and Sunday. So you can look at him and just be like, this kid's smart. This kid's got it easy.
00:27:56
Speaker
But you know, if maybe, maybe that's what your weekend's looking like. If you see his weekend, he's up early. He's brushing his teeth. He's combing his hair and he's going straight to the library. So, you know, that's, that's a sacrifice. Like we all make sacrifices. So, you know, the nice thing about the podcast is you get to hear these backstories and say, and especially like, you know, maybe some of the listeners are are thinking about going to med school, haven't thought about the old school. They could hear other people's stories and maybe see somebody that they say, look, this person looks like me or sounds like me. I like if they could do it, I could do it too. Right.
00:28:28
Speaker
Right. and for
Advice for Aspiring Podcasters
00:28:30
Speaker
you being a podcaster, but also a physician, how do you navigate, um you know, being though in in these spaces and roles?
00:28:39
Speaker
Because it could be quite busy, I'm sure, as ah as a gastroenterologist. What does that look like for you in terms of organization of your life and making time for podcasting?
00:28:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's definitely, i I do a thousand things, Aldwin. So yeah, you know, it's funny, I have students sometimes and like one of the first piece of advice I'll give, you know, when someone kind of seeks me as a mentor is don't be like me because I'm always, My poor family. Yeah, my poor family. like I'm never home. i'm always I always have like a million things going on, and I have like five things on the back burner that I want to do. and Interestingly, you know I run into some people that are that are similar psyche. you could You're analyzing me as we're going probably. I promise I'm not. Right, exactly. Always rough talking to a psychiatrist. but No, that's that's how I run, you know, and if I'm not busy, then I'm, you know, sad. Like, so I i need to be going on on all jets.
00:29:36
Speaker
um But, you know, sometimes, you know, I got my practice, you know, I got my family, you know, i have I'm on the board of directors of a company. Like, i you know, I do a lot of different things and not everything's for money, you know, like I have no problem with people that do things for money. So the podcast, we don't make any, there's no money involved. So, you know, we're not we don't have advertising, We are you know none of this, this is all a labor of love.
00:30:02
Speaker
um I really, people talk about burnout. I think, you know, docs talk about this now a lot. You know, one of the things I think, and I agree with it, that that facilitates burnout is just, just working and not being with your peers, not talking to your peers, not talking to students, not mentoring students. Again, you know we wrote this article, ah every every mentor needs a student. you know I think that's how you prevent burnout. So it is it is tough to do ah podcast and you know keep this stuff you know going.
00:30:36
Speaker
um But again, we're on year five. it it rejuvenates me. you know We were at OMED this year, which is the big osteopathic conference. And there's a couple of students. um Shout out to Mason and and Violet. and And they went. They had ah a research poster based on the podcast, which is amazing. Wow. Yeah, it was great. They did it. They interviewed people. They basically did a yeah that survey a study where they, and again, for all you pre-meds listening, please check out the podcast.
00:31:08
Speaker
yeah I think it'll be helpful to you. So they did a, you know a lot of a lot of people don't know what DOs are, right? And that's why you know I'm happy to be here with you today because maybe some of the listeners like, what's osteopathic school? like They're not applying because they never even heard of it.
00:31:23
Speaker
or Or maybe they have some ah preconceived notion from Reddit, ah you know, like some nonsense that somebody's posting, right? No offense to Reddit either, but you know, there's a lot of nonsense, there's good stuff on there, there's a lot of nonsense. um But, you know, so they did a ah survey study where they interviewed people that knew, they had ah the inclusion was you had to know nothing about osteopathic medicine and be looking to apply to medical school. And they had them listen to two podcast episodes. They took a survey before and a survey after to show knowledge on osteopathic medicine and likelihood to apply to osteopathic school and
00:32:02
Speaker
They found that there was a statistical significance to listening to the podcast. Obviously, knowledge is a no-brainer, right? People are listening. um But also that they had an increased um interest in applying to osteopathic medical school after they listened to the podcast, which is super nice. So I'm going off on a tangent again. So that was cool. But even better was that I got to meet these lovely women who have been working with me for years and are really helping me. And it's just so...
00:32:32
Speaker
great to work with students you know it's part of what you know gives me a little happiness and again getting back to that uh 2020 conversation with tianu shay who by the way tianu shay started the podcast with me for those of you that kind of fell asleep in the middle of my diatribe but yeah yeah tianu shay's a gi fellow now he's doing great and he's still involved with the podcast not as much as when he started it obviously But just like these connections with students and and being able to mentor students, you know, it does take time. I i absolutely make time for it my schedule because it kind of recharges me and and makes me remember why I did this in the first place.
00:33:10
Speaker
Yeah, I feel the same way about podcasting. I think it's like incredible way to connect with your colleagues and peers. It's always like amazing for us on the SNMA podcast to connect with individuals like yourself, but also to work in a team in a dynamic where we're supportive each other. We learn about each other, where we're at in our respective lives, whether it's our executive producer, or the various other co-hosts we have or our background team members. So um I just want you know want to reiterate everyone the importance of podcasting and being part of this is a special process. And I
Future Aspirations for 'DO or DO Not'
00:33:46
Speaker
encourage others to start their own podcast as well in whatever niche or ah area of expertise you believe you may have or not may have. Because it's an incredible way to ah put yourself out there into the world. And with that being said, Dr. Storch, what would you recommend to someone who's interested, especially early on in their medical journey and starting a podcast? What would you recommend they start over?
00:34:10
Speaker
Yeah, my first recommendation is join us. Don't start your own podcast. like Come hang out with us. So you know we have we always have opportunities for hosts. We have opportunities for social media. you know I offer you know sort of my little pitch when we when we pick up students to work with us, especially pre-meds or medical students or or after, um is that and I don't know what the value of this is, so it may be a bad proposition, but they get my mentorship, they get access to me. That's huge. Yeah, yeah, you know, it's so funny, like, that you you wouldn't have heard of this, but there's a, you know, Doc, hall you don't know Doc Hollywood, do you?
00:34:48
Speaker
No, I don't. Yeah, watch Doc. You're too young. You're too one. Watch Doc Hollywood. It's like yeah you may not like it, but there there's a movie called Doc Hollywood. It's with Michael J. Fox. It's like a romantic comedy. you've got a significant other, you can probably get it on Netflix or something. you know like It's a cute movie, but it's basically Michael J. Fox and this Again, this is a little bit of a long story with a punchline at the end, but he's a yeah it's funny. he's a yeah a plastic surgery He's applying to plastic surgery. He's going to LA. He's driving through the backwoods in his like Porsche or something, and he has an accident, and then he gets arrested. like It's like a silly thing. And he ends up basically, he gets sentenced to he has to work like family practice in this podunk town. yeah
00:35:34
Speaker
And he falls in love with the people. It's just a nice movie. It's a funny movie. Yeah, and he ends up at the end of the movie, he he He serves his term and he goes to LA to go interview for this plastic surgery residency. And when he gets there, he's like, I know you're not gonna give me the spot because I didn't do this or that. And I've been away for three months. I haven't been doing my research or whatever. And the guy's like, no, we're offering you the spot.
00:35:59
Speaker
and and and And he's like real like he's like in shock. He's like, why are you offering me the spot? And he's like, well, Dr. Podunk family practice called and said I'd be a wart on a hog's buttocks if I didn't give you the spot. Like this guy called him to tell him he should give him the spot. And and of course he doesn't he ends up not taking the spot. He goes he goes back. But you know i you know I think it's important sometimes, like I have students, I'll make a phone call, you know whether I'm like destroying their chances of getting that residency or not. But you know I have a personal connection with a lot of these students and and i'm I'm happy to to you know go the extra mile and and make a phone call for them if they put in the time. So so I didn't answer your question, but the first is like, you' well you're welcome to just join us. And that's the path of least resistance. And we kind things set up. But if you want to start your own podcast, you know, it's it's the the interviewing. i mean, you're doing a great job, Aldwin, because you're just letting me ramble like sometimes. Oh, all good. No, no. I'm learning. You're not rambling. This is perfect.
00:37:00
Speaker
Yeah, sometimes the hosts talk too much. So like my advice to my host is always like, try to get the guest to talk, you know, you don't have to talk the the the podcast episodes about them, not you.
00:37:11
Speaker
yeah so you can direct and put in your little comments. But in general, you want to hear the story of your guest. And um the hardest part of the whole thing is editing the episode. So Most of ours is audio, the editing. I do all the editing for us just for quality control. And ah a 30 minute episode could take like four or five hours to edit because people have these weird, like they're they they have clicking, they're yelling, they're, you know, ah doing all this crazy stuff. but Long pauses um sometimes, you know. Exactly. Long pauses. um But yeah, but so that the editing is rough. And then, you know, we, you know, for us, you know, the social media and getting listeners and, um you know, those things are always challenging. And, you know, some people do it for money, obviously, but for us, you know, I love it sometimes, like we went to OMED and, we
00:38:01
Speaker
We talked to a couple of students from some of the student organizations and they're like, you need to have more social media. You should have like a Facebook paid to ad, but it's like, we don't have any money and we're doing it on purpose that way. because I don't want, you know, in order to and pay money, we'd have to take in money. And then I feel like it would kind of, change yeah garnish the the change changed the tone of of what we're trying to do. So so that's that's kind of my take. But podcasting is great.
00:38:26
Speaker
Podcasting is great. I would say, you know the other thing I would say is when we started the podcast, I listened to a lot of podcasts. So obviously Aldway, I've listened to you you know the SNMA podcast. You guys are great. you know It's a good place to start and listen. you know I listened to, there was a there was a doc who did a podcast, he's he's an anesthesiologist now, it's called the Undifferentiated Medical Student, where, you know, yeah, he's he's he he interviewed he wanted to interview people from every specialty. And yeah, he he did a lot of them. I think he got his residency, stopped doing it at some point, but I cold called him. Like, that there's a lot of podcaster resources, it's a nice community. you know, I would listen and see what you like, see what you don't like.
00:39:10
Speaker
um Yeah, and and it's great. It's fun. Where do you see the Dio or Do Not podcast in the next five years? So, you know, hopefully we're still doing it. I mean, we're again, we're on year we're going into year six. ah We actually we were doing every two weeks. It was a lot of episodes. And like you said, my time is a little crazy. So we actually cut back to one a month.
00:39:36
Speaker
So, you know, it's like sometimes yeah like we were talking about pivoting. You don't have to like – jump you know you don't have to jump out the window you don't have to like put the brakes on sometimes you just gotta slow down a little bit so yeah for now we're gonna do one a month um the AOA the American Osteopathic Association has been super supportive on their social media and amazing Yeah, some of the members have been great. i Where do I see myself in in the next six years? i mean, I hope to have a better, you know, we, I always say I, but it's like the team and and myself ah would love to have closer relationships with student groups like SNMA and like SOMA, which is the osteopathic, ah you know, student groups. You know, i really think, you know, we we definitely make an impact with practicing docs, again,
00:40:25
Speaker
preventing burnout, having other people interact through podcasts and seeing what other DOs are doing. We definitely make an impact with residents, but I think pre-meds and medical students and and getting more listenership from pre-medical students and medical students is really what I would love.
00:40:44
Speaker
And if you asked me, like, what's my dream for the podcast, I would say, i think that it's a crazy number of DO students in medical school at any one time. I could i get, it's like 20,000 or some some crazy number. So i always think every DO o student at least should be listening to our podcast. So we we have- hundred Let's say 1,000 listens a month, we should have like 20,000 listens a month. So whenever I talk to people from the AOA they're like, wow, that's great. You have 1,500 listens a month. That's crazy.
00:41:15
Speaker
Yeah, but I feel like it's terrible. like I feel like we should have 20,000 a month. We're deficient. So I always set the bar high and and I would love to have, i would love to touch more people. And again, i
Pursuing Medicine for Love, Not Prestige
00:41:27
Speaker
know I've repeated this a few times, but it's not for money. It's just for love and and helping people.
00:41:33
Speaker
it so And I can see the genuine passion and love for for the game of podcasting, which is great. makes it its It makes the podcast more authentic, as you have mentioned. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah, you have to love it. that's That's the other thing. If you're looking, if you just want to get into med school and you think like putting a podcast on your resume is a great idea, it' probably not the best thing to do. They're easier easier ways to pad your resume than to make a podcast.
00:42:00
Speaker
um But yeah, if you're passionate and you think you want to share stories, you know I think think podcasting is great. No pressure. But what... has been your favorite podcast that you've recorded on the deal. Do not podcast. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, that's hard. That's hard. Um, yeah. And I've been asked that before. There are so many episodes, uh, that I like, and I'm going to actually, i'm going to go on the website and I will tell you, and this is,
00:42:33
Speaker
um I will tell you my favorite episode and my my brain is just like, I'm doing like a hundred things. We could edit this out. It's okay. no Yeah, but if you ask me what my absolute favorite is, and I have a lot of, i have a lot of faith again, I have a lot of favorite episodes. um If you ask my wife and kids, they would probably say that,
00:42:54
Speaker
ah They would be surprised if I didn't say my favorite episode was an interview that I'm on. Like they think a little bit of egotist. So, but that's actually not true. um Hold on. I'm going to tell you my and and we interview, i love the family practice. I love the psychiatrists. I love, you know, again, those surgeons that do OMM, but yeah,
00:43:23
Speaker
Hold on one second. I'm so sorry. I should have the name off the top, off the tip of my fingers. Oh, no problem. Take your time. Yeah, so so I'm going to, I'm a little, hold on, I got to see where you are.
00:43:38
Speaker
Okay. So I'm a little politically incorrect, and but love everybody. I always say that when when I make comments that I'm like, you got to be careful for what you say nowadays. You know, it's like everybody like whatever. So I'm a little politically incorrect, but love everybody. But I'll tell you, and again, not this is not because I'm on SNMA. I'm just like a no BS kind of guy. yeah So I think this is kind of funny.
00:43:58
Speaker
So Tianyu Shay, I already told you, is is um first generation. i think he may have been born in China, so I may even be misspeaking when I say he's Chinese American. He may be Chinese you know ah born. But so he started the podcast with me. We did a bunch of episodes.
00:44:17
Speaker
and And he's like, Stuart, he didn't want to offend me. you know Again, he's still like, he's cute. you he's still called He's a doctor. He's like a GI fellow. I'm like, call me Ian. He calls me Dr. Stuart still. He won't switch over.
00:44:27
Speaker
But he was like, so yeah, he was like, Stuart, like, well, everybody, was I don't know how to tell you this, but everybody we've interviewed are white Jewish men, right? Right? This is what he says to me. And he's like a little sheepish. So I'm like...
00:44:42
Speaker
Look, I can tell you why. That's because like that's who my immediate friends are, right? A lot of my, you know? But I said, listen, i point well taken. And again, this is where i was like, you know, we're not we're not doing people's service that are not white Jewish men and everybody applying to medical school is not white. Actually, I don't think there's that many white Jewish men applying to it. They want to go to to like finance or something now. Like, yeah, exactly. But but again, you know, I said like, let's try, let's let's diversify. let's let's I mean, i agree with you. And again, you think that's politically incorrect or you can cut if it's politically incorrect. Yeah, but that's what it was. This is the truth, you know? It's the realities of, you know, your truth. So I called, um there's a woman who's great named Margaret Wilson.
00:45:28
Speaker
we picked up early on. Margaret Wilson obviously is not a white Jewish man. She's a, she's a, yeah, she's, no, she's a Dean at Kirksville, ah which is the mothership osteopathic school.
00:45:40
Speaker
So, you know, and again, we had, we had already started like um we, there was woman during the pandemic named Mirtha Macri. That's a great episode. It's not my favorite, but it's up there. um She's a ah Latin woman who went to NYT and she was working at maybe Lenox Hill, something in the Manhattan. She was an ER doc in Manhattan and she was still giving back to community. and And they actually did a Netflix special that she was in. That's how I found her. Oh, wow.
00:46:12
Speaker
Yeah. And she was like in COVID, in the ER with a mask and like eight months pregnant. Like this woman's like- Badass, like badass, badass. So that's a great episode. So we interviewed her. um And then, so I reached out to Margaret Wilson. I said, Margaret, like, I need, you know, I just, do to give me ah somebody great that's like not of the demographic that I've done, right? And she was like, two seconds, John Thurman.
00:46:41
Speaker
All right. And John Thurman is, I'm just, again, I'm going back again. He's episode 17. And I have to say that's my favorite episode. So John Thurman is, and again, we have 160 episodes and and that's my favorite.
00:46:57
Speaker
And I don't think people have asked me that before. I'll do it. I'm opening up to you maybe because you're a psychiatrist. You what I mean? I get a good vibe. Yeah, so John Thurman was in the military.
00:47:11
Speaker
He talks about you know some tours that he went on in Afghanistan. And he he went to west Point. like The guy's just spectacular, a spectacular human being. And when you listen to him it's like music. like Everything he says is wisdom. he ended and he ended up um He was at West Point and again, I haven't listened to the episode in a while, but he was that he was at West Point and he was playing ultimate Frisbee. Oh, and he played, he hurt his knee. Part of it was he hurt his knee and playing college football at West Point. He was he' was a football player. yeah
00:47:50
Speaker
And he was playing and he didn't get hurt at West Point, but then he was playing like ultimate Frisbee on like the, one of the teams, like, and he was like an administrator or a teacher at West Point and he like crushed his knee.
00:48:03
Speaker
Yeah, and he was like ah in in bad shape. And he had a couple of surgeries. And, you know, when he was rehabbing, ah the PM&R docs were like so great to him and really changed his life. And they were DOs. And he ended up going to – to Kirksville for, for osteopathic school. Uh, he did family practice and he's ah just a great, great role model. Like that, that's, that's, he stands out to me always. And I usually don't say it, but you know, again, I would, if I had to pick a favorite, he would be my favorite.
00:48:40
Speaker
And if he's listening, you know yeah John, and I talk to him every once while. He's a big basketball fan, as I. Yeah. And um so you know we we'll send an email every once a while. But if you're listening, John, I'm i'm sorry that ah he's he's a little humble, but he's the best episode.
00:48:56
Speaker
Well, I'm happy that you were able to share that because oftentimes, you know it's not little bit of pressure because you don't want to offend anybody. But you got to keep it real. We keep it real on this podcast. So I do appreciate you doing that.
00:49:07
Speaker
So before we go, any last words of wisdom um regarding anything in general and also your pitch to our audience? Yeah, absolutely. So I would say for anyone listening that's thinking about, you know, my son, Aldo and I was telling you is applying to med school yeah and it's in it's interesting that You know, sometimes I tell docs, you know, that my son, now what's his son going to do? And I'm like, you know, he wants to be a doctor. Like, why would you let him do that? Like, what are you doing? Like, what are you thinking? And and that's fine. That's their opinion. But i my opinion is you should always pick a profession because you love it, right? Don't don't want to do a specialty business.
00:49:50
Speaker
And you've been through a few Alduin already, right? Like you've tried a couple on and it didn't work out for you. Like find find what you're passionate about and find what you love because there's always gonna be someone that makes more money than you. There's always gonna be somebody with a bigger house, a bigger car, a better life, quote unquote.
00:50:09
Speaker
You need to be happy inside. You need to be happy with yourself and you're gonna spend a lot of time at work, whether you like it or not, right? You're gonna be at work a lot. So
Final Words on Osteopathic Medicine
00:50:19
Speaker
yeah there is, right? There is no value. There is no monetary price that you can put on. I wake up every day at four o'clock in a the morning. Don't tell anybody, right? But I'm up four o'clock in the morning. got a lot to do. But yeah, I'm up every day at four o'clock in the morning. I'm happy to get out of bed and go to work.
00:50:37
Speaker
Happy. So, you know yeah, you can't, there's no value you can put on that. So if you told me I could work for a hedge fund and be absolutely, you know, again, if you're happy with a hedge fund and making a billion dollars, that's great. Do that, right? But but us yeah, yeah i was out I was out last night with a friend of mine who is, um you know, works in in finance, has a big finance job. Great guy great guy. and And he's just unhappy with his job, like, you know, because of politics or what have you, you know, and he said to me, know, he said, Storch, I don't have a job like you where I wake up every day and I'm just like happy and helping people. You know, so, yes you know, that that resonates, right? And I think you got to keep that in mind. that if you'd and there is And on the flip side, there is no worse job that you could pick than medicine if you hate it, right? yeah So if you if you don't like it and you're doing this because you think, yeah, don't do it.
00:51:32
Speaker
Do not do it, right? So that goes without saying, you will be absolutely miserable. You'll be much happier in finance and miserable than you are in medicine and miserable. It's a lot of time. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of delayed gratification. But if you love medicine, do it.
00:51:47
Speaker
if you're so If you think that you like holistic care, if you think that you like looking at the whole person, if you want to be a doctor and look at mind, body, and spirit and have the opportunity to do whatever you want, if you're interested in primary care, if you like...
00:52:07
Speaker
um learning about complementary therapies. If you like manual manipulation, if you're even interested in any of these things, you should definitely check out osteopathic school. I'm through.
00:52:18
Speaker
Right? i'm not I'm not selling anything. I don't get it. I already told you I don't get a kickback from the AOA. I'm a card carrying member of the American Osteopathic Association. um but But again, that you know, it just...
00:52:32
Speaker
do your research. It might not be for you. just Just like I said, medicine might not be for you. Do your homework. If it's something that you're interested in, i i have no regret. I've had a great life. The osteopathic community has been great with me. And then one other the little, ah again, i always ah talk about me. My kids would say, i wrote an article again for the do now that was probably like a year and a half ago called the secret do handshake so like aldwin you and i like we have of a bond as doctors right like you're a great guy like i think we if we were together we would be friends so we have like a friend bond we have a doctor bond but we also have a deal bond so you know i bond with my md friends but there's always that like secret handshake between dos where you just like you see the badge you see the deal and it's just like uh instant
00:53:19
Speaker
you know, camaraderie, yeah you know, not always, but a lot. um So I think that's important. And again, if you're thinking about any of these things or you're not sure, listen to the DO or Do Not podcast, listen to John Thurman or any other of the of the great guests that we've had. we Again, we have about, a think posted, we have 160 170 episodes.
00:53:40
Speaker
And if there's somebody, yeah, if you go on and there's a, you know, for, for your listeners, if there's, if you want to get involved, get involved. If you say, you know what, I have a great deal that Storch didn't interview. i would love them to be interviewed.
00:53:51
Speaker
Dior do not podcast.com. You can, you can go on the website. You can send us a message through the website and send us a name of somebody you think's great. and We're happy to interview them.
00:54:02
Speaker
Maybe we'll get you on the podcast, Owen. That'd be cool. Oh, for sure. i would love to come on. Thank you so much. ah Well, I really appreciate you, Dr. Storch, for sharing your wisdom, your expertise, and your energy and transparency and authenticity. ah Your podcast is inspiring so many and will continue to inspire and be hope and inspire to do the same for our members at the SNMA. So thank you again for coming to Kicking It in the Lounge. This is your host, Dr. Samari, signing out with Dr. Storch.
00:54:35
Speaker
We'll see you soon. Goodbye.