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139: How a Life Rebuilt Became a Career in Safety
301 Plays18 days ago
A story of resilience, reinvention, and an unexpected path into safety. In this episode, Jill James sits down with Chanell Alaniz, president of the Oklahoma City ASSP Chapter and former head of EHS for Oklahoma’s largest biopharmaceutical manufacturer. Chanell shares an extraordinary origin story that begins on the Mississippi Gulf Coast during Hurricane Katrina, winding through loss, rebuilding, tattoo artistry, scientific research, and ultimately a calling in occupational health and safety.
Chanell opens up about evacuating with a newborn, rebuilding her life through Habitat for Humanity, becoming one of Oklahoma’s first licensed female tattoo artists, and later transitioning into laboratory science and CGMP pharmaceutical work. Her journey takes a dramatic turn when she steps into her first safety role just three days before COVID‑19 is declared a global pandemic—placing her at the center of biomanufacturing efforts to support vaccine production.
Through vulnerability, humor, and deep reflection, Chanell illustrates how a “helper’s heart,” a systems-thinking mind, and the influence of strong mentors shaped her into the safety professional she is today. This episode is a testament to the winding paths that lead people into EHS—and the power of purpose discovered along the way.
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Transcript
Introduction of Chanel Alanez
00:00:08
Speaker
This is the Accidental Safety Pro brought to you by HSI. This episode was recorded April 8th, 2026. My name is Jill James, HSI's Chief Safety Officer, and my guest today is Chanel Alanez. Chanel is president of the Oklahoma City ASSP chapter, a chapter that started 75 years ago. And Chanel has been working in EHS for six years, including the head of EHS for Oklahoma's largest biopharmaceutical manufacturing company.
Impact of Hurricane Katrina
00:00:39
Speaker
She's currently exploring new opportunities and is joining us from Oklahoma. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me, Jill. So, Chanel, when when you and I did our prep call for this, you told me that you have a really big origin story and that if I wanted to know more about it, I should Google your name.
00:01:04
Speaker
And also you said, or don't, so that you can be... so that you can be surprised as we as we do this recording so i want to tell you i did not google your name i resisted the pressure and i am very curious um to hear your origin story and what brought you into this um wild and crazy profession that we have yes Yes. So, um you know, i I usually start off that conversation, um you know, have you Googled me? It's kind of a strange thing to say, you know, because you really don't know what's going to show up. But, um you know, I think that with some of the interviews that I've done and, um you know, community support pieces that I've
00:01:50
Speaker
you know, it kind of really tells the story ah of of who I am. And um I was living along the Gulf Coast of Mississippi. I was living on the first block of the beach.
00:02:03
Speaker
And um on August 29, 2005, Hurricane Katrina came ashore. um My home was so close to the beach that you could sit on my porch and hear the waves. And And that was really kind of the the beginning of of my journey, you know, 20 years ago to becoming a a safety professional. And um so, you know, my roots are really very Southern and um it involves having to evacuate, Realizing that I was unprepared for the enormity of what was occurring, you know, to, to, to my community and, and you know, literally millions of us along the Gulf coast in Mississippi and Louisiana.
Evacuating to Oklahoma
00:02:51
Speaker
And, um, my son Dutch was actually due that weekend.
00:02:57
Speaker
so he, um, yep. He was born. Thankfully, he was induced two weeks early So his birthday would have been that that weekend.
00:03:09
Speaker
um So I'm incredibly thankful that um I was not in the hospital as it was flooding, giving birth. um But, you know, along with our evacuation, we made our way up into Oklahoma to live with my father. and so you You and a newborn. Yes. Well, at the time I actually was married.
00:03:33
Speaker
Yes. And he, he came with us, you know, for a short while he was, he was with us after the storm. Yeah. um But, you know, I think that during, during that, you know, being so vulnerable, you know, you're, you know, newly married, um right before the storm occurred, I had actually lost my mother suddenly as well.
00:03:55
Speaker
um So there were, you know, multiple, you know, traumas kind of around that time, but getting to Oklahoma and experiencing the people and just the support that this state has has given me was just foundational.
Rebuilding in Oklahoma
00:04:14
Speaker
um I ended up signing up. I was sitting at home with my dad and my newborn and happened to be watching a commercial and Habitat for Humanity came on
00:04:26
Speaker
And they were like, build a home with us, you know. And then they were talking about all of these tornadoes that had come through. And they were really looking for people who who they could help.
00:04:37
Speaker
And i was like, wow, you know, I need a helper. i am at rock bottom, basically. I have absolutely nothing. During the storm, we had also, right before we evacuated, the transmission on my ex-husband's truck broke.
00:04:56
Speaker
And we had to, of course. Yeah. Yep. We had packed it. Things were fine. And during that event, it left us no room to put our three dogs.
00:05:10
Speaker
So we really had to um make that big decision as to whether we leave them there. We could not find a place for them to go. and this was really back before the Red Cross opened up shelters to animals.
00:05:24
Speaker
And so we we ended up having to leave them there. ah We and of course, all three of them perished. But, you know, getting here to Oklahoma was incredibly healing.
00:05:38
Speaker
And they just
Career Transition to Safety
00:05:39
Speaker
they knew exactly what to do with me. They were like, we are going to you're going to do your sweat equity. And throughout the first year, I put all of my effort and into building a home for for whi me and my son. With Habitat for Humanity. Absolutely. Yes.
00:05:54
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, i ended up next to one of um one of my neighbors had gone through the May third tornadoes and more. And if you're from Oklahoma, when you talk about the May 3rd tornadoes of 1999, I
00:06:11
Speaker
It was a devastating EF-5, and um it went through the heart of Moore, Oklahoma. And she was actually one of the survivors. She had survived and in her closet.
00:06:23
Speaker
Wow. So it was it was very healing to know i had... You know, a foundation, you know, this is the way I go. This is where I heal. And my neighbor was amazing. Both her and I had been through some very historic natural disasters. And um that's kind of really where the, you know, I have a helper's heart. I'm a giver. And that's really where it started.
00:06:46
Speaker
Um, i knew in order to heal through all of that, I really needed to find a place that I belonged, you know, what what was I going to do?
Education in Science and Safety
00:06:56
Speaker
and um, really, you know, even though this was 20 years ago, it really was the foundation of it. You know, you start developing that passion and you're recognizing these new characteristics and, you know How come I'm thinking like that? Or why am I overtly worried? you know what Yeah, yeah. you know was your and she know What was your occupation during this time? As this is going on, yeah. Yeah, so um in 1998, I started working in the body art industry.
00:07:28
Speaker
So at the heart of everything, I'm really an artist. I did watercolor paintings all through high school. I went to nationals and um I started tattooing and body piercing in 1998. And I did that career as a manager, managed five different tattoo shops. um But we were all real high level.
00:07:52
Speaker
You know, we were, um I did a few articles and interviews for the health department. um You know, so even then was, I was, yeah, I was talking about the safety. i was enforcing, you know, health department rules and and regulations. And um so I was already really vocal then about, um you know, safety.
00:08:15
Speaker
you know, the safety within that industry as well. Right. And that was a time where the AIDS crisis in the United States was a big deal. i remember, I remember the the early nineties myself and yeah working on my college campus and, and, uh,
00:08:33
Speaker
um teaching in safe sex education around that time and volunteering in the community. And around that time, my brother decided to get his first tattoo. And I was like, oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. I'm calling the health department and asking him, you know, tell me the name of the place that you picked. Let's find out if they have a current license. Yeah. You know, you need to ask them about their needle usage whatnot. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, it really, it really was. um and you know, of course I was a woman. And so it was from 1998 till 2007. And, seven
00:09:09
Speaker
and um you know, it was hard to find women in the industry then, you know. um So that was really um something a little different. So I definitely experienced kind of working in the male dominated field and um things like that. And Prepped you for EHS. yeah Right, yeah. Yeah. You know.
00:09:32
Speaker
and So it really um it laid a lot of foundation um being able to um really establish my career, but What ended up happening is is when I evacuated up here to Oklahoma, um tattooing was still illegal in Oklahoma.
From Tattoo Artist to Chemist
00:09:53
Speaker
Oh, wow. And this was in two thousand late 2005. You know, this was... I first arrived. So it was the only state that it was still illegal to actually tattoo.
00:10:07
Speaker
And with you yeah, it was very surreal because I had, you know, after all the years of management, I mean, I had 27 artists reporting to me and, you know, we had a lot of money, you know, these were not little small shops. These were very well-established shops. Um, um,
00:10:24
Speaker
And so coming up here was very foreign to me. um But through the legislation, i think it was maybe six or seven months after I arrived, um they really started pushing through. And um I ended up getting a job in management at this fantastic tattoo shop.
00:10:44
Speaker
And I ended up tattooing live on air as one of the state's first female tattoo artists who was certified by the health department. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So no pressure. Yeah. That was a big, yeah.
00:11:04
Speaker
that was a really ah That was a really big deal, um especially for the you know for the whole state, for their whole industry. you know And um I think that without them being without health department regulations for so long, you know um they ended up, you know you actually had to take a course, and it was called Safety for the Tattoo Artist, Health and Safety for the Tattoo Artist, and And you had to go to all the tech colleges around here offered the course and it was like blood-blown pathogens. But it was so much more mature, you know, because you'd had people who had really been working for a while in the industry and they wanted everyone to really know that, hey, like these are the rules, you know, and this is what we expect. So, um but yeah, so this is, this is kind of how I i ended up. Wow.
00:11:56
Speaker
here in Oklahoma and um you know I really kind of found my place where I was comfortable and yeah so and you got a you you worked alongside Habitat for Humanity you've got an established home you got a job yeah um yeah and so what happens next like what sort of itch happened in you to take you to the next spot um So I really kind of started thinking, you know, i had always been really good in science in high school.
00:12:26
Speaker
um I ended up being the kind of weird, creative Gen X girl who was, you know, in my 12th grade year, I was taking three hours of gifted art.
00:12:38
Speaker
And then i realized I was really good at science, you know, and so took a bunch of AP classes back then. But um I really kind of got to the point in my career here. I think it was 2007. And seven and um I was just like, you know, if I'm not going to open up a tattoo shop, I need like an adult adult job. You know, I was like, yeah. I was like, you know, I can't, I don't want to be, you know, 70 having a tattoo, you know. Taxing on the body, that work. It really was. it it ah actually, um it it really affected my back too. Yeah, I believe it. Yeah. So I ended up going, a couple of years later, I decided I was going to go to college.
00:13:26
Speaker
um It was time, you know, during my younger adult, you know, years, I was, it was rock and roll and tattoos and we were going to see Ozzy Osbourne and, yeah you know, nice stuff yeah, we were just having a great life. yeah ah But, you know, so I truly realized I was like, I need to, you know, i need to do something for the rest of my life. And and that's really where I found science. Yeah.
00:13:51
Speaker
um So I enrolled at my local community college and worked on my associates and ended up finishing that with biotech research associate in biology. And then ended up as a double science major working on molecular and cellular biology at UCO.
00:14:14
Speaker
So I was really heading into, um I'd been advised here at o you because I'm just down the road from from o u here, the University of Oklahoma. And um I had been advised, and what I wanted to do was I wanted a PhD in molecular anthropology.
00:14:35
Speaker
um So I was really interested in the history of life and where do we come from? and um you know, like, so like watching, you know, the NASA launches is just like, that's normal for me, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And yeah and at the time we're recording, at the time we're recording this episode, the NASA launch of sending our first astronauts to the moon in over 50 years yeah is just happening the week that we're recording. It it is. Yes. And I've watched all live. First woman up there doing that. Yes. Yeah. I love it. Absolutely. And, and you know, um but, you know, while I was studying molecular anthropology
00:15:18
Speaker
um and really through the molecular, the cellular biology degree, um they really started talking about, you you know, some things that I was really uncomfortable with and and some of them were animal research.
00:15:34
Speaker
And at that point, when they started listing elective options or capstone projects as animal research studies, i was out.
00:15:46
Speaker
I was like, I'm done. i I am, this is not me. I am the biology girl. I'm going to help the animals. I'm going to save them all. um i I really don't want any part of this. And that's really when...
00:16:01
Speaker
I said, well, you know, I have enough um education right now. i was still working on the bachelor's. And I realized as an adult, I was like, I i really need to start working again. You know, you can only be a full-time student for so long. And um i had worked on both college campuses for a while. And um I ended up applying for a job to be a lab tech at first. And um that position turned into me becoming a CGMP pharmaceutical chemist over the next few Describe what CGMP means for us. So CGMP is current good manufacturing, um basically, you know, properties and products. It really is a very high level of lab skills um that the FDA really regulates. There's a lot of ISO standards that go into it as well. So there's kind of different levels of bench work that that you end up doing, but...
00:17:05
Speaker
Because I was really good at tattooing, i was really good at setting up, you know, aseptic fields. I kind of understood that I could work for 12 hours a day, you know, in a high performance type of real technical setting.
00:17:21
Speaker
you know With little room for inaccuracies. Yes, absolutely. yeah Just like a tattoo. You don't want to... Yeah. and I was just like, this is like i was like this is great. like i could I could be in a lab. And that's really kind of where it started. you know And that was in 2013. I started my first um you know adventure into the professional scientific industry in 2013. So...
Safety Role During COVID-19
00:17:49
Speaker
And that really kind of formed me, ah especially in the beginning, you know. um During... I'm guessing that... Yeah, go ahead. Well, kind of during all of that, I ended up... um I ended up, I wasn't able to attend any any further. So i I really just worked for a few years, just kind of I'm career driven and um I will always work first. but Yeah. um But, you know, kind of during that, I ended up going back to school and then discovering organizational leadership.
00:18:26
Speaker
Hmm. And so I studied um organizational leadership for a good while, a good while. And I had always read about it. You know, you you read all of the the programs and that the books and all of that stuff. But, you know, through organizational leadership, I really discovered, and this was in 2018, i discovered occupational health and safety. Yeah.
00:18:55
Speaker
And I had an advisor sit down with me and they looked at me and they said, well, if you're not going to do a PhD in science, they actually looked at my resume and they were like, you know, when I just look at your resume, this, this is safety.
00:19:11
Speaker
He said that this is occupational health and safety. how these deep insight yeah like These are, these are the skills that you were doing before. And these are the skills that you're, you're doing in the lab now. And, and that really, you know, i was like, that's it.
00:19:27
Speaker
That is it. and And I think it was just like a light bulb that went off. That said, i that's where I belong. And that really occurred in 2018 when I realized, and it was like a ton of bricks hit me, you know, that, that was, that was my calling. And all of this is kind of leading up to that career. And that's where the passion goes. And i'm a helper and You know, of course, let me fix this. I'm a solutions person, a systems thinker, you know, i so I could really kind of systems think my way, you know, within those holistic type of circular environments, you know, to really see the complexity of things.
00:20:06
Speaker
um So that's really how I how I ended up, I ended up joining UCO. And, um you know, I am a working adult. And, you know, i have two semesters left with UCO. And hopefully I can, um you know, do more online classes. And I've got some projects and stuff. So hopefully this summer I'll be re-enrolling and um closing that out to sit for my CSB. Yeah. That's amazing. And I'm just also amazed that the advisor could recognize your career and see that. yeah And does your university have an EHS program? Oh, absolutely. um so you know So UCO is the University of Central Oklahoma.
00:20:50
Speaker
um They have ah an amazing occupational health and safety program. um in it And it truly is. I mean, i really do believe that UCO builds and trains some of our best, our state's best safety professionals. They all go on to have really fulfilling careers and they become regional directors and global EHS.
00:21:16
Speaker
So for UCO, I really do believe the strength of their program is their professors. um I have felt um incredibly supported, incredibly guided through through that program.
00:21:33
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. And it and it really, it it it is a testament of kind of um the the the work ethic that that our professors at UCO really translate on to us.
00:21:46
Speaker
For sure. Yeah. And I'm remembering now, um you know, apparently Oklahoma produces some pretty stellar EHS people. So on your campus, I believe it's Dr. Jan Hanwerk. Yeah. um Yeah, she's been a guest on the show um as well. She's episode 121. And um Dr. Leslie Stockle, who you're just speaking about, she's been a guest on the show as well and was ASSP's Educator of the Year a couple of years ago.
00:22:18
Speaker
So um look at the triad of women we are just talking about yeah here today from Oklahoma. was studio Yeah. And, you know, me being really mid-career, you know, only six years of experience. um yeah You know, those are the women I'm learning from, you know, that's a mean, both of them. And, you know, um we call her Dr. H. Yeah. You know, she was just at our PDC.
00:22:43
Speaker
and she's a stitcher lover. Yeah, she is a driver and stood in front of me and said, you need to get back in school. And I said, yes, ma'am, I will be there. And she, you know, so I really do believe that, you know, when you have...
00:23:00
Speaker
um these known industry professionals who have 30, 40 years of experience. yeah um It really is an opportunity to learn. And it's something to aspire to. You know, I have safety professionals that, especially with our chapter here in Oklahoma, you know, um my mentor has 44 years of experience with the ASSB. And, um you know, when you when you talk about a legacy in a lifetime, um i think it's so important as safety professionals, we we slow down and remember to learn from them.
00:23:36
Speaker
You know, because you absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, paying attention. And it's the important thing to do. Yeah, you know, they can say one little thing, you know, or if I say one little thing, you know, I have one, they'll just look at me and I'll be like, well, that probably wasn't correct, was it? Let me back that up but again, you know, um you know, and you really want to learn from these lifetime, um lifetime professionals. It really is an honor. It really is. Yeah.
00:24:05
Speaker
So, Chanel, you had been working at the bench, as you say, as a, as a, um ah is biochemist the right word? ah ah well Chemist is better. I don't want to say biochemist. Chemist is better. Okay. a Chemist. Okay. As a chemist. And then, and then you took another position, correct? Mm-hmm.
00:24:23
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Tell us, tell us about, yeah. Tell us about that and when that happened, because another interesting piece of timing in your career. Yeah. Yeah.
Leadership and Ethics During Crises
00:24:33
Speaker
So I went on this kind of tour of labs where I did some contract work and trying to find really kind of where I belonged, you know, so I did a couple of different things and, I was an environmental chemist running lead testing for a short while. And um I came across this this, you know, it was like, hey, come in as as contract and come work in our analytical department.
00:24:58
Speaker
And um through that, a job was posted and it was for a safety specialist. And I was like, well, I've been working on my occupational, my OSH degree for a year and a half at that point. And I was like, I'm just going to I'm going to go for it.
00:25:20
Speaker
And I did. And I remember talking to everyone at UCO and they were like, go do it. It's you've been in this field of study for, you know, eight years already. You know, you have, it's it's kind of like, you know, a lineman who's been a lineman for 10 years and they go into safety, you know, so I kind of had this background.
00:25:43
Speaker
And i applied. um i got it. And then um three days later, the World Health Organization declared a global pandemic.
00:25:55
Speaker
And that was COVID-19. As luck would have it. Yes. Yeah. So um immediately, um because that is that was the business. So it's for the state's largest biopharmaceutical biomanufacturing company. And, um you know, we were contracted out and we ended up manufacturing multiple components of the COVID-19 vaccination. Amazing. And yeah, we... Thank you for that work.
00:26:27
Speaker
Oh, thank yeah. Thank you. um You know, our scientists, went when COVID-19 started, when when you're an environment with all of these scientists, I remember um there were lots of meetings put onto a task force. Most of my time in the beginning of my career was spent with all of our VPs, and with all the CEOs. um We were having two meetings a day, five days a week.
00:26:54
Speaker
Because during that time, we realized, you know, of course, we had to separate, we had to do all the safety stuff, but then we also had to grow. And we truly had to manufacture a commercial product that that would help with, the the you know, this terrible, um terrible, you know, pandemic that was occurring.
00:27:18
Speaker
and i mean that's I think that's beautiful. I mean, manufacture and grow. You had to do this to scale, do it safely yeah for the people that were working, I assume, around the clock. Oh, yes. Yes, absolutely. We we were 24 hours a day. um Everyone was split up.
00:27:35
Speaker
And I remember um I did with the task force, I did a lot of the communications and We had trackers going, but I remember there were multiple days in the beginning of my career where um i would be in my office alone and I had a ah counter and every day i would count the deaths.
00:27:58
Speaker
I would record because the CDC would release that information. And so we we were counting and and I knew, i was like, you know, our our, we call them, you know, patient zero. and I knew, i was like, we're going to have a case, you know. And um when when you're biomanufacturing, you are truly creating something that is a cellular product.
00:28:24
Speaker
And the FDA came back and said, hey, How are you keeping your product ah uncontaminated? You know, how how do you know you're not actually growing it? And so that there was a lot of, um a lot of information that had to go to the FDA. How are we cleaning and fogging and and disinfecting? You know, you have to think that these are very large products. ISO so clean rooms. You know, you have different levels of clean rooms. There's constant environmental monitoring of the air and surfaces and things like that. and but But that was my entry into safety. And I remember thinking, like, I would rather, maybe I should just be, like, checking fire extinguishers. Like, you know. Yeah.
00:29:10
Speaker
No, you're working in a clean room environment and yeah doing all the air monitoring and thinking about what's being exhausted into the atmosphere, if anything was. Yeah. nor yeah All of all the things. Yeah. of Every industrial ventilation thing that you learned in your education thus far you were putting to practice. Oh, absolutely. and And I think that one one of the the really important things, too, was... um You know, sometimes, I think depending on the type of safety professional you are, um this is my first official title, and the the weight of the responsibility, i think instead of it being...
00:29:53
Speaker
you know, hey, um you know, someone has slipped and and broken their leg or, you know, someone has had this severe injury that impacts them.
00:30:03
Speaker
All of a sudden it became, um you know, if this person gets COVID and they bring it home to their children and their grandparents and their aunts and uncles. And so instead of having a team 400, you know,
00:30:19
Speaker
I really kind of felt the weight of every single family member that they had. and And that's really kind of how personal um I really took it. And I think as a young professional um who who does this because I really care, you know, um it was a deliberate choice. It's in my heart. It's my passion. It's my calling. um That was a heavy weight.
00:30:41
Speaker
it It was a big weight. Yeah. Tell us about, it included in that weight, tell us about the chemist that you were sitting next to on the first day you were there.
00:30:53
Speaker
um So, you know, ah science is international. um So you have lots of um scientists and analysts from different backgrounds. um And I believe that's critically important for true scientific work to to occur. And um she had been talking to me and this was...
00:31:17
Speaker
Right before the pandemic was declared and she said, hey, have you heard anything about this? And I was like, well, I don't know. i don't know what you're talking about. And she had actually said that that her family was um living overseas and they were basically under lockdown but because of a pandemic.
00:31:35
Speaker
And I was like, what? What is going on? And this was really before, you know, everything was kind of on fire. And it was a real, when it was really spreading. But it was very surreal to to hear what her family was going through um and know that I was literally entering into that.
00:32:00
Speaker
You know, and it it truly was a choice, you know, because, I mean, I could have found other jobs. I could have found other companies easily, easily. yeah And i um I made that choice. You know, I was like, this is this is it.
00:32:13
Speaker
um Throw me into the fire. um Going in the deep end. Yeah, i like are... Yeah, yeah. We're going to you know. and you know, when you talk about crisis management and business resiliency, um during that time frame, we had some incredible leaders who truly um deserve the recognition. And they were truly the ones who who pushed us through that to success, you know.
00:32:43
Speaker
um Yeah, I mean, and you ah thank you for saying that. and you had alluded earlier, you said about being at the leadership table and advising leaders. And that was that was pretty common during that time where EHS professionals who really only had the ear of leadership in times of like, you know, something bad happened to go dust off that EHS person. We just had an accident over here. Now you get to talk to the leadership. All of a sudden overnight, so many of us had a permanent seat at the table and many of us had retained that. And so here you are jumping into the deep end in the in dealing like on the front lines of this battle. And then you get to be with leaders at the same time. Yeah. um Yeah. Talk more about what that was like. And I bet you were really grateful for all those years as a leader um in the tattoo industry. Oh, absolutely. And and I really believe, um you know, and I tell people this, that um especially about leadership, that, you know, your people can truly see through you.
00:33:52
Speaker
And sometimes that's good. And sometimes that's bad, that it's bad you know And um I think that during, especially the very beginning, um you know, there are titles, right? And there are non-titles. and your your people will define who it is.
00:34:15
Speaker
you know, um no matter what your title is or what it says, just through your conversations, ah but then your actions, you know, your your your follow through and, you know, through through the stress of it all. I remember at one point, I had come in one day and um I usually tried to stay very business, you know, casual and business dressed. And well, this day I had been out on the floor and um there was just a lot going on. and you know, so we were kind of the face of these policies that were coming down because others were really in their offices, you know, at that level, constant meetings. And so we were really kind of on the floor translating this in front of others and,
00:35:01
Speaker
um I came in one day and I had my Metallica shirt on. It was like 103 in Oklahoma. Classic Gen X movie Metallica shirt. For all the Gen Xers out there, you're you're laughing at this right now. And I'm one of them. So thank you for saying that. Yeah. And, you know, I'm tatted up. Like I'm sleeved out. Right.
00:35:23
Speaker
And I come in my hair is all crazy. I'm just sweating. Like I'm working that day. yeah And I remember sitting down, not even covering my. and And I was at a point of.
00:35:35
Speaker
And this is before we sent a lot of people. Because we were not a work from home company. yeah You couldn't have been at that time. Right. And so when you're dealing with all that critical data, like how do you even translate that, you know, safely onto someone's computer? And so we were having this crisis after crisis and we just could not pull the button on getting people to work from home, allowing them to work from home compliantly. yeah And I remember coming in and I was just a mess and I sat down and You know, this started and I remember i told myself and I tell myself this a lot that um I am going to say exactly what needs to be said.
00:36:16
Speaker
And if what I say, of course, and in a decent way, right? Right, right. um If this is not what they want to hear, um then they can fire me.
00:36:27
Speaker
hmm. And I remember i stood up and I said, I'm going to say something. And all of you, there was like 12 of them, and I just pointed and they were just staring at me.
00:36:39
Speaker
And i said, we need real leaders. I said, we we don't need the metrics. We don't need the what's going to happen in forecast. I said, we need, we have a terrified workforce.
00:36:53
Speaker
I said they need real leaders. And I said it pretty aggressively, but I think they all turned around and I sat back down and I really kind of, I have a real criticalness for people and bad leadership. Right. I have never heard that. I will not stand it.
00:37:16
Speaker
And um if I see bad leadership, um you know, it fully needs to be, you know, that leader has things to learn. And I learned that early on that I'm i'm going to have a voice because sometimes as safety professional, you are that only voice.
00:37:33
Speaker
That's right. I mean, i call it worker justice. That's what we are. We're worker justice champions. Yes, that that was, yeah, and that's that day I was like, this is, well, you are going to let me go or let me settle down. um and And I really kind of found that voice yeah that day where we're going to have that conversation that you We're losing track of of what's going on, you know. and Yeah. You know, I think about that as, you know, I personally call it my North Star, you know, like what is my North Star? Yeah. um Like, what are the things I'm yeah where is my red line that I'm not going to professionally, ethically cross? Yeah. um yeah A friend of mine, um Dr. Todd Lushin from the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater, he and I are working on a presentation right now that we're um going to be delivering a few times in 2026 about professional ethics and how to create creating your own ethical standard, your own ethical code.
00:38:36
Speaker
yeah And what you're describing is exactly that right now. Yeah, it it it it really was. And it was just the most powerful, like freeing moment of my career. And I was like, this is, and literally, I was like, this is me. This is all of me. And, um you know, it wasn't like bringing my authentic self, but it truly was like, this is, that this is the boundary and and this what this is what needs to happen. And, um, you know it was just, you know, very freeing for me to say, hey, you know, I represent our people as well.
00:39:08
Speaker
And we've we've got to get it together. Yeah. You know, because we're... And did things change? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. but By the end of that meeting, that following Monday, we had everybody partitioned off. People were working at home who needed to work from home. And... We were truly set on a path of success after that. Absolutely. Yeah. And we were in gear, in mode, and truly manufacturing at a really high level during that time.
00:39:36
Speaker
it It was amazing to see the company kind of come together and um to see what people can can truly do. You know, it it was it was empowering. Yeah. It was all these all these years later. And ironically, this week is um the, I guess, anniversary, you would say, of the first time I had the COVID vaccine. Yes. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. And and like and likely out of the work that your lab did.
00:40:04
Speaker
I love that. Yes, absolutely. yeah absolutely. I love that. Yeah, great. I want to make sure that I don't miss something that you said earlier about follow through. And you you had shared with me earlier, your belief in what the foundation of the practice is. Do you want to expound on that a little bit?
00:40:21
Speaker
um Yeah, absolutely. um You know, I truly believe that, um and and I tell people, and I say people, you know, teammates and former teammates that, um you know, the reason i work in safety is to prevent trauma, suffering and harm. Yeah.
00:40:44
Speaker
And i do not want people to needlessly go through um events that um you know they don't have to
Foundations of Safety Practice
00:40:52
Speaker
go through. And it's just so embedded in me And it truly is the of trust.
00:40:58
Speaker
you know through through the eye of trust um If someone can't trust me to represent them or bring credibility to them, then that is just foundational.
00:41:14
Speaker
You know, it it truly is foundational. and And one of the things that we deal with is, you know, getting others to care about themselves enough. You know, they have to be part of that tribe, part of that community there that is really building um improving and building and, you know, kind of climbing that ladder up into um what safety excellence would be. You know, we always see these maturity models and and things like that. and um But, you know, your workforce really kind of dictates that.
00:41:46
Speaker
You know, but it it really, you know, it starts with you, you know, and um you don't have to have a title. You do not have to have a title. um You know, you don't even have to have authority to truly influence. You know, I like to call it grassroots leadership.
00:42:02
Speaker
um And I know that I've been, i had one of my former um safety team members described to me as a warm chocolate chip cookie.
00:42:18
Speaker
and Hey, I'll take that. That sounds like a good description. ok would Yeah. And it really was. And he, you know, i I remember him telling me, you know, and I think it was just feedback that I needed too. There was a lot going on. And he was like, look, he was like, you know, when I come talk to you about my safety concerns or, you know, what's kind of occurring, he's like, you are welcoming and warm and You know, and and that mattered to him tremendously, you know, and and that created those relationships that you kind of needed. and um But, you know, i think through the hurricane and COVID-19 and all of these kind of historic disasters and things, ah you know, having the, you know, and ah we love these keywords, but having just the grit and resiliency, know,
00:43:09
Speaker
to know when to rest and when to change plans and and and when to be flexible. um Because it it takes strength. It it it really does. it It takes a level of strength to be, ah you know, a safety person, you know, to stay calm within the moments, um you know, of whether they're emergencies or even something very small, you know. it it it takes that person to set those sails. It really does.
00:43:36
Speaker
oh Yeah. Yeah. um I want to come back to, you know, the resiliency and grit piece. I know that you were interviewed by some people on that because of what you went through. And did that did that piece start 10 years after the hurricane when you got a call from someone? Is that where that piece started? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So on the first anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, um because I had was building my home through Habitat for Humanity, um a bunch of newspapers kind of picked up on the story, and it was just really impactful, you know, that almost exactly a year later, um my home would be dedicated to me and my son, but the foreman who was building my home
00:44:33
Speaker
with me had evacuated from new orleans so he was actually from from new orleans and he i remember him crying on the final day of the build and he said that um he was just so happy and humble um very much a servant leader to to help you know us And so I think it so healing to be around someone who who was from the region.
Resilience and Media Coverage
00:45:01
Speaker
And um really through that, what ended up occurring is um it took about three months to go back to see my home for the first time after Katrina had had hit.
00:45:18
Speaker
Um, and when we arrived, um, this is the first time we had seen it. Um, there were reporters everywhere and buses of people coming in. we were in an area that did have the 32 foot of storm surge.
00:45:38
Speaker
And we know that's very accurate because our neighbor actually stayed and he was in his seventies and him and his wife and his chickens and his dogs. climbed up to the second the second story of their home and their home came crashing down onto this massive live oak tree, the ones that hang the moths. And he watched the water rise above the power poles.
00:46:05
Speaker
In that area. um He survived. His wife survived all of the chickens and his amazing animals that he saved. But he he stayed. He stayed during that. and oh During that time, we went back. And because I had lost my mother four months prior to Katrina, um For some reason, i had um left her ashes in the home.
00:46:31
Speaker
And I think, I think that we were in disbelief that we did not, especially when you were evacuating, We were not truly told um the brevity of how deep the water was going to get.
00:46:47
Speaker
They said, and I remember they were like, you know, six feet, seven feet, three feet. It kept on changing. And when Katrina took a jog to the right, that's when within this 12-hour period, they finally... um started truly saying that the devastation that was going to occur, the the the human suffering. And I don't know if some of us kind of remember the civil alert that went out. And I've listened to it over the years because I remember hearing that civil alert that said, if you're here, you are going to have no food and no water for weeks and weeks on end.
00:47:30
Speaker
And basically, if you had not evacuated, you had already missed your opportunity. And Um, so when we went back, um, the home was still standing, um which was very surprising. um but it had been completely busted through. So every time we entered it, it was just falling down around us. Well, we wrote on the side of the home, um, we put Todd and Chanel, okay, need help finding mother's urn of ashes.
00:48:01
Speaker
wow. And yeah, I was really desperate to to find my mother's ashes. And we wrote my father's landline. And that photo just made the rounds all through media. um You know, i mean, I saw it posted everywhere um because it it was very shocking to see. You know, it was a very personal. We weren't worried about anything else. And we actually had multiple people stop and And dig through that home. Strangers, complete strangers. We had no idea. Just volunteers that had come in Because we had to go back up.
00:48:38
Speaker
You know, I just, we could not live there with a newborn. So we had to come back to Oklahoma. And um a reporter with CBS during that early time frame took pictures of it.
00:48:51
Speaker
And um she called me 10 years later. Holy crap. She called my father's landline that was still on that picture. And my dad, wow my father, my amazing father, George, picked up that phone and said,
00:49:09
Speaker
And she she was amazed. He was amazed. We were all just, you know, he had held that landline that long, right? I mean, exactly. I haven't had a landline in like 20 years. I know. i was like um But yeah, so she ended up um doing a really big 10-year anniversary Um, she came and, and spoke to me and you got to think, I was very adamant about, um, telling the story of Mississippi because I felt like South Mississippi had been, um very forgotten. You know, we had all heard about the, the Superdome and my goodness, I had friends who, who were there going through, through the tragedy. i was in the Red Cross building. i remember being there registering as, you know,
00:50:00
Speaker
you know for help in Red Cross. I remember those being, coming directly from the Superdome, walking into the Red Cross. um And she was very adamant. She was like, hey, I'm i'm going, we're going to do this 10-year anniversary. So she interviewed me and then my sister. My sister went back down to South Mississippi to reestablish. And um she came in and did all these kind of before and after pictures of of, um you know, what what it was like 10 years later, and kind of how we were doing, you know.
00:50:34
Speaker
um it was a very big thing. It was a very big thing. And then I was contacted by um Option b And that is done by Sheryl Sandberg, her foundation Lean
Contributing to Option B
00:50:46
Speaker
In.
00:50:46
Speaker
We can lean in.org and Dr. Adam Grant. He's kind of ah an amazing organizational psychi psychologist and leadership expert. And they ended up contacting me to do a story for option B about building resiliency and grit.
00:51:07
Speaker
And really kind of what it is, is through through their book, Option B, um they really kind of tell you that if you're reading this book and if you need help, um you can go to this website and read other stories.
00:51:22
Speaker
And it really is kind of a encouraging you to find the help that you need and find the connection and community. um So that that was really, really pivotal, being given that that chance to to say, hey, you know, um it's okay to ask for help.
00:51:42
Speaker
You know, we all have to have a a different path in life. And, um you know, we just have to step back and take it. You know, you have to redefine that again for yourself.
00:51:52
Speaker
You know, so it was just so important. Yeah. Beautiful. Thank you. Beautiful. We'll be sure to put a link to that in the, in the show notes as well. Yeah. Gosh, I appreciate that.
00:52:04
Speaker
Oh man. um I'm looking through my notes and seeing something else I wanted to ask you about. um thank you for sharing the story of all of the things that shaped you in this, in this profession. It's really incredible. Thank you. Thank you.
00:52:22
Speaker
Yeah. Um, I wanted to, this is this is a, that I'm going to make a hard right turn audience and ask about TRIR and your belief around, around that. do you want to talk about that? Oh, absolutely.
Challenges with TRIR Metrics
00:52:40
Speaker
so you know, I think that when you're working with real high level scientists, you know, these are our, are these are our knowledge workers. Yeah. um
00:52:52
Speaker
You know, i watched, them get introduced to what a TRIR was. And no matter how much you explained it, how much you validated it, how much you showed the formula, you you showed the reasoning and the OSHA, um you know, reasonings and and how this is kind of defining our industry, Um, they would just, they would literally say over and over, this is just, they would say, this is statistically insignificant okay over and over. They were like, we don't even understand how is half of your industry based on this when this is just absolutely, um, insignificant.
00:53:42
Speaker
And, and I remember, you know, when the first concept was kind of, you know, because how how are you going to, you know, metricize your your programs and your leading and lagging indicators and and such. And um it was just the craziest thing. it and it was so hard to do um you know, that, and it was just,
00:54:06
Speaker
it it was very difficult. and And like the moment it was said, they were like, this is, this is completely insignificant, um, mathematically for us as a whole. And, you know, so when, when we're pushing that, those TRIRs, um,
00:54:22
Speaker
You know, it it's a difficult thing. And I am, as a safety professional, I am looking forward to other metrics. ah That's right. That's right. Hey, you know, maybe some are coming for you. Another presentation I'm working on with another EHS professional um right now. Shout out to former podcast guest here on the Accidental Safety Pro, John Les Mackey. He and i are working on a presentation on making a business case for safety. And what and metrics leadership's leadership cares about. Yes. Yeah. you know Yeah. When you tell those scientists that they just, they look at you in disbelief and they're like, what? Like, we wouldn't even talk. Why are we even talking about this? You know? And I'm like, well, and you know, we had such low, I mean, you know, especially when, you know, during, I mean, our EMR was, um, for the past three years was 0.6. Ooh, that's great.
00:55:16
Speaker
oh that's great Right. Yeah. So that was three years at yeah EHS performance. And, you know, I was head of EHS for, you know, two full years of that. And, um you know, TRIRs, I mean, we had zero, right? A couple of years we had zero recordables. And, you know, we would have like a TRIR of like 0.3. Wow. Very low, you know. and But it really is to hear kind of a scientist's perspective on on what their thoughts are, you know. That's right.
00:55:46
Speaker
That's right. Yeah. So we look wonderful yeah kind of yeah definitely we we look forward to something amazing. And, um you know, I wholeheartedly believe that our our our industry as a whole is fully working on that.
00:55:58
Speaker
I really do. Yeah. Yeah. Um, Chanel, as we wrap our time up today, i ah want to make sure that we talk about the ways in which, um, you are involved
Diversity and Inclusion in Safety
00:56:10
Speaker
and leading. I know I mentioned president of the OKC ASSP chapter, but you're also a piece of WISE. You also have something to do with a tribal affiliate of OSHA. Can you talk about the ways you're representing, yeah um, more of our, um minority pieces of our Oh, absolutely. I'm a very inclusive um leader. um You know, if I have someone kind of kind of sitting off to the side and if they don't fit into everyone else in the meeting or kind of what I'm seeing, I'm i'm drawn to that person. um And i've fully believe
00:56:53
Speaker
in you know, reputation your representation matters. And I know that we hear that kind of all the time, but, um you know, especially ah that I'm given the opportunity to really be a servant leader as as the president of of the ASSP here in Oklahoma City. we have a highly engaged membership. Yeah.
00:57:19
Speaker
um here, you know, our monthly meetings are just highly attended. And um I truly believe in community and belonging and bringing people together. um And being part of WISE is just so important to me.
00:57:39
Speaker
um While we don't have a lot of active vocal members of WISE, the women that are involved, and of course our WISE guys, is just important.
00:57:51
Speaker
it It truly is. it It changes lives. It changes your career. um Being able to be involved, even at the national virtual level of WISE, is is truly what what keeps us together and keeps us motivated. um So we are going to be expanding. We have a few new members with WISE.
00:58:11
Speaker
Also, too, we've identified an incredible leader. So we're going to try to potentially charter a new BISE common interest group, and that is their Blacks in Safety Excellence.
00:58:25
Speaker
um I truly want to see that. And we have a very strong member in WISE right now. um Hopefully one day maybe she'll be our co-chair WISE.
00:58:36
Speaker
and um she has a good amount of tribal affiliations, and she's already kind of been in the works. When you speak to her, she's passionate, and so what we're going to be doing actually next week, we'll be reaching out to the, ah because we are in Oklahoma, we have we do have tribal affiliations, and we have very strong, um you know, recognized Native American tribes here, we're going to be working with their OSHA department and trying to form and storm a really strong connection in between our Native Americans and their tribal OSHA departments and the DOL and things like that, kind of, at you know, within their level and within us. Yeah.
00:59:26
Speaker
You know, because I do feel like there there is kind of a disconnect, you know, so I i truly want to see people represented. and One of the things that we've done this past year is we've done and we've made sure that while we say ASSP is just safety, it's all safety. You know, we have fire protection, we have our, you know, our engineers, we have our management specialists and And all of that good stuff. So making sure that everyone really, it's not just occupational. You know, it it it takes a village. It takes all of us kind of working together to to get to this level. But <unk> um yeah, so we've been working hard. We only have a few months left in this term. And um I think that we've we've accomplished a lot.
01:00:09
Speaker
you know Sounds like it. Yeah, sounds like it. Chanel, thank you so much for sharing your story today. It's an it's an honor to have it in the archives of the Accidental Safety Pro. I just really appreciate it and wish you best on your you on your next and continuing adventure. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.
01:00:30
Speaker
And thank you all for spending your time listening today. And more importantly, thank you for your contribution toward the common good. May our employees and those we influence know that our profession cares deeply about human well-being, which is the core of our practice. If you aren't subscribed and want to hear past and future episodes, you can subscribe in iTunes, the Apple Podcasts app, or any other podcast player you like. Or if you prefer, you can read the transcript and listen at hsi.com. We'd love it if you could leave a rating and review us on iTunes. It really helps us connect the show with more and more health and safety professionals like Chanel and I. Special thanks to Emily Gould, our podcast producer. He is also from Oklahoma. And until next time, thanks for listening.