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Bonus Episode! Safety Unscripted: Your Questions, Expert Answers
10 Plays31 minutes ago
Do you have burning safety questions but aren’t sure who to ask—or worry about how they’ll be received? Jill and her longtime friend and former fellow OSHA investigator, Dr. Todd Loushine, recently hosted a live webinar doing just that! Registrants submitted hundreds of questions before and during the live event, and the duo were able to give answers related to:
> Program building, governance, and core safety systems
> Operational hazards and technical safety scenarios
> Training effectiveness and learning design
> Leadership buy-in, management tension, and business alignment
We believe many of our listeners have the same kinds of questions. So, we're sharing portions of the webinar recording with you for this special episode of the podcast.
If you like this episode, join Jill and Dr. Todd LIVE for Safety Unscripted: Part 2 on Wednesday, February 25th. You can register by clicking the link below. Enjoy!
Safety Unscripted Part 2: Your Questions, Expert Answers, Live Webinar Registration
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to EHS Hotline and Webinar
00:00:08
Speaker
This is the Accidental Safety Pro brought to you by HSI. This episode is recorded February 5th, 2026. My name is Jill James, HSI's Chief Safety Officer.
00:00:20
Speaker
As an EHS professional, have you ever wished there was some kind of hotline where you could call a certain number and EHS professionals would be on standby to answer any question you had?
00:00:31
Speaker
Kind of like how Butterball Turkey does that around Thanksgiving every year. You can call it the Turkey Hotline and ask any question you want about cooking a turkey. Well, back on January 28th of this year, my longtime friend and colleague, Dr. Todd Lusheen, who's associate professor at the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater, and I did exactly that.
00:00:51
Speaker
No, it wasn't about turkey, though I have worked in that industry. It was a webinar where any EHS professional could ask us anything about yeah EHS they wanted.
00:01:01
Speaker
And we answered what we could, as fast as we could. Hundreds of questions came in through the registration and during the live
Webinar Success and Follow-up
00:01:09
Speaker
event. We sorted like with like and tried to bulk answer where we could.
00:01:13
Speaker
It was fun and a little intimidating. As podcast listeners, I bet many of you have the same kinds of questions. So we're sharing portions of the webinar recording with you all here for this special episode of the podcast.
00:01:27
Speaker
Webinar attendees asked for a part two, so we scheduled a second session for Wednesday, February twenty fifth If you want to attend and see what this is all about and ask your own question, a registration link is in the show notes.
Meet the Hosts: Jill and Todd
00:01:42
Speaker
Enjoy today's show. Hi, everybody. My name is Jill James. I'm Chief Safety Officer here at HSI. And with me today is my almost lifelong friend.
00:01:55
Speaker
Todd, you want to introduce yourself? Oh, am I frozen? You were. Yeah, you were. as we youre here We can hear your voice. Everybody, I'm Todd Lusheen. I'm an associate professor at the University Wisconsin-Whitewater.
00:02:09
Speaker
I'm glad to be here. Yeah, Todd and I have been, um literally, we've known one another for, Todd just dropped out. Coming back in. There it goes. You're you're active now. Yeah, glitching. It's cold outside. Todd and I have known each other for 32, 33 years.
Webinar Format and Topics
00:02:28
Speaker
We started out our our careers together working as investigators with OSHA, and we come back together several times a year regardless of where we're working um in um in our careers to be able to do things like this because it's professional fun for us us and a way for us to give back to the profession. So our format today, want to say, um if Chrissy, if you want to go to the next slide, when we asked um everyone who registered to submit a question if they had one,
00:03:00
Speaker
You did. You did. And we have like over 100 questions. Over 100 questions came through. Thoughtful questions. Thank you all so much for that. So what we did with those questions is we put them into like buckets or groups and that you can see those on the screen right now. So that we, you know, instead of trying to take one at a time and never being able to get through all of them today, we just put them into groups so we could answer things kind of in mass and be able to come along, go along. So our format for today is we are going to cover um number one through four in the first week.
00:03:39
Speaker
about 40-ish minutes of the of the webinar. And then the remainder, we will answer on a part two of this that's coming in February, and we'll give you the date at the end of at the end of this broadcast.
Conducting Fire Drills: Tips for New EHS Professionals
00:03:53
Speaker
And then the last about 20 minutes or so of our time together today, you'll be able to submit your questions through the Q&A and put Todd and I in the hot seat, and we'll do our best to to be able to answer your questions. So that's the format for for our time together today. And thanks again for everything that you submitted to us. It was really fun reading all your questions.
00:04:17
Speaker
All right. Should we get into it? All right. All right. All right. So um our first group about program building and governance and core safety systems. So um I'll take this first question. Someone saying, I'm new to the role and I've never done a fire drill. Where do I go? What do I do? How do I start that?
Risk Assessment and Professional Development
00:04:36
Speaker
You know, I would start by using um someone in your own community who can help you with this. And by in your own community, I mean, go to the fire department.
00:04:46
Speaker
um get to know your fire chief or the deputy chief and say, hey, I haven't done a fire drill before. Can you give me some best practices? Or do you even want to come into our facility and do something with us and guide me through that?
00:04:58
Speaker
um When I first started out, I got to know my chief immediately. um Another reason to know your fire chief in in the your community is that they have access to to other regulations that you might not have access to that you have to pay for like ANSI standards. Todd, I know that's what I did. I would go and sit in the chief's office and read regulations that the government wasn't paying for me to have access to at
Resources for EHS Professionals
00:05:26
Speaker
the time. So it was good.
00:05:27
Speaker
um Let's see what else. um Learning about Todd, do you want to take the next one?
00:05:35
Speaker
Yeah. So this one is kind of a broad response because everybody is going to be, have different types of responsibilities depending on what company they're in. My recommendation, because I, you know, I'm i'm teaching freshmen about getting into career and safety, ah that if you're out there on your own trying to figure this stuff out, you need help. This isn't something that you can completely do on your own.
00:05:57
Speaker
I would recommend that you start a project planner, Step one would be, what are the what are the risk centers for my organization? What should I really be focusing on? Because you want to prioritize your focus.
00:06:09
Speaker
But then you should have a separate one for professional development. Now, it's whether it's tapping into resources like HSI, whether it's joining a local safety group, you've got a lot of work ahead of you.
00:06:21
Speaker
ah it's this is something This is lifelong learning. Jill and I are still learning. We're going to teach you how we need will find answers based on some of the questions you pose to us. But is step one is try to figure out what are the main risks or issues you need to focus on because that's where a majority of your energy should go. Secondly, what are you going to do to increase your own professional development? And that is, you know, lay out certain milestones as you go through.
00:06:47
Speaker
um But as far as our us being able to predict to say, well, if you get A, B, and C, you should be able to do this. You can't do that. We don't have that in the books yet.
Understanding Leading Indicators in Safety
00:06:55
Speaker
Jill? Yeah. Yeah. So super um the um third bullet there, super new to the position, looking on information on the basics of the job. So on the um ah when this session is over, Christy will share with you a landing page that we've created for you with resources that we have um collected to share with you. And you'll also get them emailed to you as well. And so for that one, um we have a white paper that um we've had for a long time that Christie and I actually co-wrote together called the five essential elements of workplace health and safety. And it really is just going over like, what are the, the minimum compliance things that you need to, to have in place in order to do this work. And so that resource is available for you and like all of the things you need to know about it. So that would be a place to start there. Yeah.
00:07:43
Speaker
All right, Todd, want to take another one? Yeah, do you want me to take the the leading indicator one? Oh, sure. Yeah, do that. Okay. So somebody asked, we're at the bottom, everybody. ah How do you determine whether a leading indicator is actually predictive of risk? A leading indicator are the things you do to affect an outcome.
00:08:02
Speaker
So, ah you know, we'd have to narrow the scope to really, you know, provide you some sort of context here. But if you're only measuring things that are outcomes, an injury, an accident, ah a leading thing to those is that you're doing something to mitigate the exposure or mitigate what the outcome might be.
00:08:19
Speaker
Now, that may be um know verifying that people are able to do the job the way it's designed or to where the PPE is as designated because doing that should mitigate what that exposure might be. you'd have to go measure those things.
00:08:35
Speaker
So ah again, a leading is what will actually mitigate an exposure or the potential of an outcome.
HSI's Online Tools and Resources
00:08:42
Speaker
Measure that kind of thing. That is a leading indicator. And if you do enough of the good stuff, less of the bad stuff should happen.
00:08:49
Speaker
here Great. And then um two last things that I'll talk about before we move on to the next slide. Someone put a shut selfish so a plug for HSI in that bullet point about what tools does HSI have online. And so again, we'll you'll be getting those. um Shameless plug was the word I was looking for. um You'll be getting those in the landing page afterward. um And also I'd like to draw your attention to if you go to HSI.com, the resources tab has tools.
00:09:19
Speaker
tons of information, including the recordings of all webinars Todd and I have ever done together, as well as others, lots of tools um there. That's a good source um
Leveraging Insurance and Professional Networks
00:09:30
Speaker
for you. And then i guess I would like to just close out this slide by saying, you know, when you're, when you're starting out and throughout your career, look to um resources that can help you. So there's three that I always recommend. One is your insurance providers. And so when I say insurance providers, I mean workers' compensation provider,
00:09:55
Speaker
property, liability, casualty providers, an insurance broker, if your company has a broker that's helping you source all of your other insurance companies, they have people that they employ just like Todd and I. They have um health and safety professionals. They have industrial hygienists. And you are likely paying a premium and they probably owe you services. They're just like not knocking on the door saying, hello, did you know that there's free things that you can get from us or discounted things? If you need someone to like do some air sampling, as an example, you could do that through insurance companies. So I really encourage you to find out who those partners are. Often ah in the insurance industry, they're called risk control professionals to find out who they are and they can be your partner. And so you don't have to reinvent the wheel on things. And then um also encourage you to be part of a professional organization like ASSP, um the American Society of Safety Professionals. And they exist to be able to support our work and to help educate us. And then finally, i would say industry
Lone Worker Safety and Arc Flash
00:11:00
Speaker
groups. So if you're part of a particular kind of industry, often those industries have their own groups that include have health and safety divisions within them. So for example, I worked in the poultry um industry for a number of years and they had their own national group for yeah EHS professionals who worked in the poultry industry. And so I was able to be with a particular cohort from where I worked and was able to share information, ask questions within my own industry. So I'd recommend that as well.
00:11:33
Speaker
Todd, anything before we move on here? Nope, next one. Okay. All right. Into operational hazards and technical safety scenarios. Are there any standards for loan workers? So OSHA themselves doesn't have anything specific on loan worker safety. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't be...
00:11:55
Speaker
trying to protect employees who work alone and looking at the risks that they're exposed to from a compliance OSHA perspective, wherever there isn't an actual vertical standard as it's called, but there are known hazards, then OSHA ah leans into the general duty clause to cite employers for that. But that doesn't really answer your question. Like, how can I find out more information about what do I need to know about loan worker safety?
Qualifications for Hazard Assessment
00:12:23
Speaker
um NIOSH, the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, has some information and help on loan worker safety. And then there are actually vendors that create products and guidance for employers who have employees who work alone. So I would look at i would look at vendors as well from that perspective. um I'll take this next one on Arc Flash as well.
00:12:50
Speaker
You know, ArcFlash is a complex, that's a complex subject. And what's, what's interesting about it is when we think about OSHA and ArcFlash and where did all of that come from?
00:13:04
Speaker
So the National um Fire Protection Agency has a regulation on ArcFlash and ArcFlash protection And um that would be one of those things I would go to my local um fire chief and say, hey, chief, can i look at the NFPA regulations? Those are the ones that he always had that I would read.
00:13:22
Speaker
And um so what what OSHA did was they said, OK, we're going to look at the NFPA regulation on this. And what are we going to take and apply and turn into something that we're going to use for compliance in OSHA? And what they did was they said, we're going to enforce the personal protective equipment piece of it.
00:13:40
Speaker
The rest of it, yeah, we support that, but we're going to enforce the personal protective equipment piece of it. So that's where that gets a little confusing. And so you you have to know about the NFPA rules around Arc Flash and the visual inspections and the gear that you have to wear and all of that business. And the only way you'd know that is through the NFPA or using a vendor that specializes in that. And in terms of is an EHS professional um qualified to assess arc flash hazards?
00:14:15
Speaker
Well, if you happen to be an electrical engineer, then the answer is yes. um If you're not, probably not. So they they have to do they have to do these really complex calculations to figure out what is an arc flash hazard. And it starts at where the energy source comes into the community,
00:14:35
Speaker
And then there are all these calculations, like from it enters your community, it goes through these stages, it comes into your facility, and then it goes to these individual pieces of equipment.
Standards for Fall Restraint and Warehouse Safety
00:14:45
Speaker
And then calculations are done to assess, like, what is the risk? What is the hazard? What is the likelihood? And what is the level of um personal protective equipment or the type of that that have to be used. And those are things that are over my head, over Todd's head. Todd is a chemical engineer, not an electrical engineer, but those are the kind of calculations that are, that are, that are done um by electrical engineers. All right. Hey, Jill, one of the members provided, I think, a response to help you out. I'll just say what they said. They said NFPA 70E is for electrical safety. NFPA 70B is for equipment maintenance.
00:15:22
Speaker
So there you go for that. I didn't ask for permission to say who it was. So I'm just going say thank you to that individual. Thank you. All right. Do I tell next one? Yes. All right. So the question is under fall restraint versus fall arrest, what force must PFAS withstand? So what I did in preparation for this is I was taking your question and just dropping it into a search engine and and see what would come up, and then I'd verify.
00:15:49
Speaker
And what's interesting is the first one that came up was the OSHA Technical Manual, Section 5, Chapter 4, Fall Protection and Construction. And under that particular standard, I've got to re-click it so goes right to it, is that obviously the anchors need to be rated for at least 5,000 pounds, but the personal fall arrest itself needs to be able to only...
00:16:13
Speaker
put into the worker 1800 pounds. That's basically what it says. There are other measures as far as how a someone, how far someone can fall. Is it possible that they could strike something
Exoskeletons in Physical Labor: Pros and Cons
00:16:24
Speaker
and hurt themselves? Do you have a rescue plan? Um, and there are other references as well, but I, for, for that answer,
00:16:32
Speaker
It's 5,000 for the connector, the anchor, and it's 1,800 pounds is the maximum a worker, maximum resting force a worker can um withstand. That's the limit.
00:16:44
Speaker
Yeah, good. Keep going. Next two. Next question. Is there an OSHA or ANSI standard regarding anchoring warehouse racking? There isn't specifically one as far, but there is there is an ANSI standard out there.
00:16:57
Speaker
Let me click on it real quick. ANSI... So it's ANSI-RMI-MH16.1 for rack columns. ah Yes, they do say you should. OSHA doesn't specifically you require it, but it's a good idea, and it depends on the type of racking.
00:17:14
Speaker
I mean, if and yeah and whether they can be bumped and somehow shifted or possibly damaged. I mean, if if the shifting of a shelf... itself could allow things to fall down or actually affect the capacity of the shelves, then yeah, you got to secure them and you might even have to put up some sort of protection or barrier.
00:17:35
Speaker
and So there isn't incidental bumping. So if you've got forklifts zooming in and out, yeah, you should really screw those things down. But I will always refer to the manufacturer's recommendations for installation first and foremost.
00:17:49
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. Should i take the next one too? Yes, please. One of the pros and cons of using exoskeletons. Well, i actually sat through a two hour seminar last semester. And what was interesting is that one, they're expensive.
00:18:03
Speaker
you know, $5,000 and up. The other is they tend to be designed one for a resistance assist. So like a rubber band or something that's elastic or like a, like a spring that will provide some, you know, once you activate it, it will provide the feedback itself. But then there's also some that are require um like an electrical charge and they provide some mechanical assistance through small engines or small motors. Um,
00:18:32
Speaker
They tend to be, no, an exoskeleton isn't something like the Iron Man suit or that really cool suit they used on aliens. It's specific for a task, whether it's to reduce the amount of force on your low back, remove remove or reduce the amount of force you put into your shoulders if it can be working overhead, whether it's grip strength, whether it's when you're walking, it actually provide reduces the you know the the forces of your gait.
00:18:58
Speaker
So it's specific. But what you can find is if you're in like a manual assembly or heavy assembly and there is a particular position or movement that is causing 80% of your issues, then I would explore some form of exostellative maybe as a, you know, currently what could we try versus completely automating it.
Comprehensive Safety Training for New Employees
00:19:19
Speaker
That's my answer. Perfect. Thank you. um k Christy, would you mind taking us to the OSHA website now and I'll answer the next three questions.
00:19:31
Speaker
So when when Todd was talking earlier about places he was looking for things, this is the OSHA website. So OSHA.gov, this is what Todd and I always go to as our initial source of truth for everything. this is This is where we live and breathe. It's where we start for everything. And if you learn nothing else today, it's the power of the A to Z index that Christy's showing you right now on the OSHA website. So Todd mentioned earlier when he was geeking out about fall protection and said he went to the OSHA technical manual. If we click on the letter T and you're like, what is the technical manual? That would be the instructions that OSHA investigators like we used to be would follow for specific things. And so the technical manual is you here. You can find what Todd was citing a minute ago through the technical manual. And then, Christy, if you'll go back to the A to C index, the next three questions, um the ah one of them was about what are the key elements of an effective emergency response plan?
00:20:32
Speaker
for manufacturing. So gut again, going back to the OSHA website, we click on the letter E and that should take us to emergency response and emergency response planning, preparedness and response. And that'll that landing page will give you a lot of resources and like what goes into a response plan. What are the things we should be thinking about? They'll give you resources and things that you can use for that.
00:20:57
Speaker
The other question, the other two questions, one was about AEDs. And so if we go back to the A to Z index and we look for AEDs, there we go. AEDs is right there. So the question was about what training requirements are required when placing an AED on site. You're going to be able to find your answers right here. So Part of what we're doing today is also teaching you how to fish. And one of those really good fishing sites, a fish-rich environment, is the A to Z Index. And then the last question was about ladders. Specifically, ah a lot of questions about ladders. Again, A to Z Index. We go to the ladder area.
00:21:42
Speaker
um Ladders. Is ladders in there? Todd, where are the ladders? I thought we had ladders in there. All right. So now we'll find Christy searching in there. So the ladder regulation is actually quite dense because it's broken down by type of ladder. If it's a fixed ladder or an extension ladder, um we can just search the OSHA website for ladders, Christy.
00:22:08
Speaker
I mean, if we're really big geeks, Todd, we can probably cite the ladder standard off the top of our head. um So yes, lots of different types of ladders. And you'll be able to find your information about placing, setting, inspecting, climbing. When do you need fall protection? What about cages? When does the cage start? Like it's all there. Do you want to wax poetic on anything on ladders? Christy's showing us the actual ladder regulation right now.
00:22:35
Speaker
you're You're muted, Todd. Sorry, I'm responding to somebody. Oh, okay. You're good? Nothing to talk about with ladders? All right. All right. So A to Z index is your friend. Is your friend.
00:22:47
Speaker
All right. Are we ready to move on? Okay. um Training effectiveness and learning design on one of our other topics today. So how much training should be given to new employees in their first week?
00:23:00
Speaker
Gosh, I get asked this question a lot. um Todd, I don't know about you, but this question gets asked a lot. um So the answer to that question is all of the training they need for the hazards they're going to be exposed to before they are exposed to those hazards.
00:23:18
Speaker
Okay. So does that sound like, holy crap, am I going to have to do everything if we're going to drop them into this particular job and they're going from day one?
00:23:31
Speaker
Yes. Yes. Then they would need everything. If you, if you're, um, if you're slowly ramping employees and they're doing a particular job task in a period of time, and then they're moving on to something else, they're moving on to something else as you're, as you're ramping that employee, then the training would be, um, matched with the exposures they have for those particular job tasks. Does that make sense? So um the employees have to have the training before the exposure. um If you need some something to confirm that in in your in your minds or something to share with maybe your um your safety department, your HR department, um if you've heard of a documentary called um Day's Work,
00:24:17
Speaker
The day's work. It's about a man named Day Davis, who lost his life on the job in the first day in the first hour of his temporary job because he didn't have the training needed for the types of hazards.
PPE Requirements in Retail and Office Settings
00:24:32
Speaker
he was exposed to, I believe a day's work. Um, and you can find it on, um, a bunch of different, a bunch of different resources. It's a documentary. It's, um, it's very powerful. Um, I interviewed the documentarian for the podcast, um, that I host the accidental safety pro, um, as well.
00:24:50
Speaker
Okay. Todd, should we tackle PPE and these couple of PPE ones together? Yeah, just I'm going to just comment on what you had said. Yes, you got to figure out what they need to know to start off their job, but also realize if you overload them, they they'll remember nothing.
00:25:05
Speaker
Right. So you need to keep it as basic as possible, and it should integrate into basic aspects of how to do their job right away. And then you're just going to have to make sure you come back and revisit them or have a supervisor observe them so that they can actually incorporate information what you're trying to train them to do to keep them safe.
00:25:26
Speaker
um You don't want to leave them on, you know, to themselves, to their own laurels, because if they observe a coworker who is experienced, but they've got the tribal knowledge, so they know how to avoid, but they're not following the training as prescribed,
00:25:39
Speaker
they are going to mimic that other worker almost 100% of the time. That's the natural way we learn is we tend to mimic others because and we feel like we're more we're we're involved. we're We're part of that group.
00:25:51
Speaker
Okay, so yeah, next one. What PPE course do you suggest for retail and office workers? what um What sort of PPE do you think there'd be needed? Because any anytime you prescribe any form of PPE, you have to do a JHA or a job hazard analysis to determine what is there and how the PPE will protect them.
00:26:14
Speaker
You may actually have to refer to ANSI standards to make sure you're choosing the correct one. My recommendation, and maybe Jill will follow up on this, is that if you find a vendor that ah What they'll do is they'll do that for you.
00:26:26
Speaker
And maybe they'll let you try out different forms. um But when it comes to PPE and retail and office, Jill, help me out. What do you think? I'm struggling to try to figure out. What I am thinking is about the what what you had mentioned. So the the personal protective equipment regulation, OSHA's regulation, requires all employers to do an assessment of their workplace to determine if any of the jobs require personal protective equipment. And then if they do, if you determine that through your assessment, then it's what type of personal protective equipment is is acceptable for for that job. So PPE, retail. All right. Here's what I'm thinking, Todd. You're working in a hardware store and your job involves cutting keys. You're going to cut keys. What do you need?
00:27:16
Speaker
eye protection, right? So I'm thinking like retail, I'm thinking about that. I'm also thinking about the back room of, you know, the shoe store that I worked in in college, and you had to climb a ladder, a rolling ladder to be able to um access racks of things. Okay, that doesn't have to do with PPE, but it did when I had to dye the shoes, the chemicals in the shoe dye would fall under the hazard communication regulation, and I would have needed hand protection, And, um, um, eye protection for the dye that I was using to dye wedding shoes at the time. So again, it really depends on the type of work environment, the industry you're in, you know, retail to retail is different. Office to office is different. It's the important part is the assessment, um, that you're doing.
Ensuring PPE Compliance
00:28:05
Speaker
All right. Let's see. um I guess, Todd, I can start out with the next one. um Compliance, employee compliance with PPE requirements. Like how can we get employees to use their personal protective equipment? I'll start and maybe, Todd, um you can you can wrap this one up. So you you you need to have policies that are enforceable in your workplace. Yeah.
00:28:31
Speaker
So if the job requires employees to use protect particular personal protective equipment, then you need a policy that says, you know, if you're not using your personal protective equipment or following our lockout tagout procedures or whatever confined space entry procedures, whatever it is, what is your progressive discipline plan? Just like you would have if someone weren't showing up for work or weren't showing up for work on time. Same thing goes with safety.
00:28:57
Speaker
Because the employee doesn't get to decide when they're not using the protective equipment that you determined they need. The buck stops with you. And so your job is to enforce the use of it. Todd, do you want to do you want to offer the softer side of that?
00:29:13
Speaker
ah Yeah. So if you find that workers aren't complying with your PPE requirements, why? um they're not trying to get hurt on purpose.
00:29:24
Speaker
What is the reason for it? ah Is it uncomfortable? Is it getting in their way? Is it is it snagging on something?
Transitioning to Electronic Forms
00:29:32
Speaker
um I know that there's been research out there that show the seat. People tend to focus on here's the hazard, let's fix the hazard or or correct, mitigate.
00:29:40
Speaker
But the thing is, I think the way we should be practicing is helping the workers be effective in their job with as minimal risk as possible. and Hopefully ah they elicit satisfaction from what they do.
00:29:52
Speaker
So we need to understand why they're not complying with the PPE. Is it uncomfortable? Is it getting in the way? Whatever might be, there may be a compromise there, but you really need to talk to the workers to find out what's thinking it's okay to remove PPE when it's supposed to be there to protect them.
00:30:10
Speaker
Yeah. the The next one is about how do I convince field employees to go from paper forms to electronic forms? Yeah. Okay. So my snarky first response is take away the paper.
00:30:23
Speaker
Okay. How do we do that? And how do you do that so it's not abrupt, right? Like what is the off-ramp plan that you have for that? To say, you know, like our our three month, our six month, our two week, whatever it is planned to go from this to this and the stated reasons why you're going to go into electronic forms for consistency. So information gets to people faster so that we can address issues that need to be addressed in a faster way. We, you know, rather than fill out the paper form, put it in something, wait for it to go, blah, blah, blah. all the different places. So what is the off ramp to get people to move from that and being able to give employees an amount of time to adjust to that with engagement with them along the way on stopping points? You know, it's not the we're, we're squeezing off the faucet tomorrow. But here's why we're doing it.
00:31:19
Speaker
And here's how you're going to engage with these electronic forms. And this is what the benefits are to you and to our company.
Challenges of Remote Training
00:31:29
Speaker
All right, let's see. um Todd, do you want to take this next one?
00:31:33
Speaker
The challenges about training, about remote? Yeah. So what i the way i envision that is that these are people who are not coming into the office or into a particular work site. so therefore, it's either virtual like this, or it's pre recorded or asynchronous.
00:31:50
Speaker
ah You're right. It is more difficult. It's very difficult to replicate classroom learning because there he is both direct and indirect learning. ah There is. Says the college professor who does both. Yeah, sorry. Right, exactly. yeah So it takes a lot more work. I mean, there's more responsibility on the individual to handle, you know, the material coming in and maybe self-reflection and assessment.
00:32:15
Speaker
I think whenever somebody goes, okay, let's do the training. We'll make it asynchronous. So we're not wasting time at work here. Watch this video, complete this true false quiz. They learned nothing. All they did was try to get through it as fast as possible. You'd have to actually increase How you're assessing their learning. And it should be, there should be both qualitative and actually need be some applied practical um experience that they demonstrate to ensure that they know it.
00:32:40
Speaker
So just because it seems easier, it is not. And this is coming from someone who does a lot of online training, both for undergrads and grads. It is so much more work when you're the trainer, because how can you prove it? That's about all I got to say about Sure. Next question is, what is the best type of LMS for comprehension? So LMS stands for a learning management system. And um so there's two things. I want to just kind of break that apart. So an LMS learning management system is where like online courses would sit with or be housed within the learning management system.
Choosing a Learning Management System
00:33:16
Speaker
And um so in terms of comprehension, it wouldn't be the LMS itself itself. It would be the type of courses that are within the LMS. And um there's different learning modalities, different types of um courses that could be within an LMS. Like you could have like a basic video, right?
00:33:35
Speaker
Just a basic talking head kind of video. You could have a video that has a test or a quiz. You could have interactive courses. That would be a different type of learning modality. where there's maybe threaded storytelling throughout an online course that stops at different points to test people's comprehension along the way with a final exam at the end.
00:33:57
Speaker
So in terms of best type, it would be best type for the learners that you have in terms of comprehension, understanding that there's a lot of different learning modalities that are out there. Now, when it comes to the learning management system where those learning modalities, those types of courses sit, then the question is, what do you need to get out of that learning management system? Are you using it for um many, many employees throughout many different locations? What kind of reports do you want to get out of it? Is it um a learning management system that's going to recommend training for your employees based on the exposures they have? Is there some AI capabilities built into it that's going to make suggestions for you? A question that we get asked, you know, quite often at HSI because we do have courses and we have a learning management system is, um you know, when they're being audited.
00:34:51
Speaker
When an employer is being audited, oh, my gosh, I have to be able to, you know, they want to know, you know, this group of employees at this location and their training history for the last five years or their training history on this particular topic. So you want to be able to, you know, if you're using an LMS, know what kind of information are you going to want to be able to get out of it from a reporting perspective for an audit, but also for you to be able to do your work, you know, with like onboarding new employees. Yeah. Um, or, you know, who has taken training or you, or can you log training that's in person? Like Todd was talking about with in-person training before. And so do you have the flexibility to upload your own things that you're doing in person and be able to have that record of employee training that was done, you know, within the LMS
Training Non-English Speaking Employees
00:35:41
Speaker
itself? Yeah. And so two separate things with um with that one. to Should we um maybe tackle the um multiple languages and training dilemma?
00:35:52
Speaker
Yeah, I'll let you take a little break here. So when it comes to um your biggest challenges, your training in your training is that 80 percent of your crew is not fluent in English.
00:36:02
Speaker
Well, then you have to provide it in their language. um There are some very, you know, user friendly language learning software programs out there right now.
00:36:14
Speaker
um You don't have to learn everything just enough to be able to speak to them back and forth that or you get an interpreter. um You know, i I had to create some surveys and do some training in Spanish.
00:36:26
Speaker
ah I chose one of the safety committee members who was fluent both in English and Spanish, and they helped me. You know, sometimes they interpreted for me. Sometimes what they did is they helped write the program so that people could read it and understand it.
00:36:39
Speaker
You must. You must do that. um And I do think with AI now, it's getting a lot easier to translate. um But if your crew is non-English speaking, you either teach them to speak English or you got to learn their language. That's required. You have to be able to communicate effectively. You have to be able to understand you.
00:36:58
Speaker
Yeah, I think, you know, this particular dilemma, and it is the dilemma, and it is difficult. And yes, you are responsible for providing employees information in the language that they understand, um per the OSHA regulations. I think this has gotten better. a number of years ago, I was working in the poultry industry. I'd mentioned that had six different languages in the company that I worked for, and I was part of the larger, remember I said, um,
00:37:23
Speaker
Poultry Industry Health and Safety Committee and I, you know, would go there and I'd say I have six languages and someone else would say I have 25 and a new one walking in the door every day. You know, that is a huge challenge. And so going back to that question about learning management systems and courses and modalities that are online now. So many more, um there are so many more opportunities than there were even just a few years ago for multiple language courses. So if you're if you're going to, you know, buy training from somewhere, ask which languages they have and if they have the languages that you need and they're supported. So that is one way for you to do that. Yes, I've used interpreters. Yes, I've done the pass the microphone thing. you know interpreter to interpreter to interpreter. Oh my gosh, that's not you know scalable. um
00:38:14
Speaker
So i I guess I would really lean into what is repeatable so that same message is getting out. So if you're using courses that have been developed by subject matter experts and they have been translated into multiple languages, you know that The employees are getting the same information and you would want to find out through interpreters you have or and your employees. Like, is is this actually
Frequency of Safety Training
00:38:39
Speaker
landing? like is this the Like, is this the native language that I speak? So when I worked in the poultry industry, um the employees we had from Myanmar, there wasn't a word in their language for Turkey.
00:38:52
Speaker
So we had to come up with how are we going to describe the white, big, fluffy thing. Right. So we need to do that. You know, if we're going to do exception management training, in-person training, that we're um taking all those things into account as well. um Navigating continued training. I want to make paying attention to the time here.
00:39:11
Speaker
um Continuing training. Yeah, right. So the OSHA regulations are really interesting on how often do you have to do training. And it's written regulation by regulation on when training is required to be um repeated. So some of the regulations will say annual, like fire extinguisher training. Some will have a whole list of if-then statements. If this happens, then retrain. If that happens, then retrain. If that happens, then retrain. And some don't say anything. Like, they're not addressing it at all, and it's left to your discretion. um A number of years ago, Christy, who is with us here today and driving the slides, she and I came up with an assessment tool that we call the OSHA Safety um Training Assessment. It'll be linked in the resources that you get. We read every single regulation. Yes, every single OSHA regulation. We mapped it to a question set where you can take an assessment to find out what kind of training you need. But what we did when we were working on that is we captured the frequency with which training has to be repeated for that subject if the regulation stated that.
Fostering a Culture of Safety Reporting
00:40:16
Speaker
And so that's one way to get that information. um Todd, do you want to take that last one?
00:40:22
Speaker
Well, can I really comment on some, we've got some people who are on the webinar who are providing great examples of things they've done. yeah One said that they implemented a field training program where new hires shadow seasoned workers and a checklist is signed off by both.
00:40:37
Speaker
Our reporting improved when I began to explain why I needed documentation. Basically, I included them in the process. Now they report everything. So you can do this. So thank you for that. The other one said that I use ChatGTP to translate all my slides. Last thing I tell ChatGTP is five slides of what what I've said in English and Spanish.
00:40:58
Speaker
That's beautiful. go Thank you both for sharing that. And I both gave them kind of like a kudos for that. So the last question, and I know we want to get to the live stuff here, is looking for ways to improve our safety training for new hires and finding the balance between encouraging reporting and cracking down on on infractions.
00:41:17
Speaker
Well, here's the thing. When people are afraid to report things because you're going to blame them um and not look beyond them as the cause, they're going to stop reporting things. So there's you know so there's there's a deeper issue here than trying to encourage these things.
00:41:32
Speaker
When I did new employee orientation at a plant that I was at, I was very cordial. I was very empathetic to what they're going be getting into. And I just talked about the things they needed to know, but realized that if you ever have a question, you could talk to your supervisor or please come to me. And if I don't do my job, call OSHA on me.
00:41:53
Speaker
that I'm committed to not only helping you getting your job done effectively, but we're going to try to reduce the risk the best we can and want you to enjoy working here. So, you know, that's the best way to take it is, but here's the thing.
00:42:05
Speaker
You may have underlying, you know, perceptions of you're going to be blamed or treated unfairly out on the work floor. Then you get your work cut out for you. So I think this is more of a um psychosocial issue than an actual, you know, a compliance or program issue.
00:42:23
Speaker
yeah yeah and i Yeah, and I support um reporting things early and often and creating a culture around early and often. Like, you know, report everything. i don't care how minuscule it is. i want to see it.
00:42:37
Speaker
I want to see it. I want to hear it. I want to know about it through whatever electronic system you have or however you're collecting information.
Leadership Buy-in for Safety Initiatives
00:42:43
Speaker
um, collecting information from employees because you as the professional will be able to assess, like, is this actually a thing? Because perception is, real you know, like people don't know, employees don't know, like, is this really a thing or is like, oh, you know, we just do that one thing, um you know, once a year, is that really a problem?
00:43:03
Speaker
You report early and often, let them know that you'll help them. You'll let them know, is this something to worry about or not something to worry about? And that'll help build your, your culture as well. All right. Shall we move on? I can see Todd is answering questions. He can multitask better than I. Thanks, Todd. Appreciate it. That's why we partner. So our, our last topic that you sent questions in about is about leadership buy-in and management tension and business alignment. Oh, my gosh. 32 years into this career, it is the age old question. And Todd and I actually talk about this quite often at national conferences, this whole this whole topic. And um so in the landing page that we've created for you today, we are giving you resources on things that we've already done. um presentations that we've already done, including one called Telling Isn't Selling, where we partnered with a sales professional to take teach EHS professionals on how to get buy-in from leadership using sales techniques, whether it was for a budget or an initiative. It's um really fun with some pretty great techniques learned from sales executives who have been doing
00:44:19
Speaker
convincing for a lot longer than we have. All right. So I think we are at the time, Christy, where we can start going to live questions. Todd, do you, do you see something want to,
00:44:33
Speaker
take Yeah, there was one that found interesting. I'm i'm just going to paraphrase so I'm not scrolling too much. Question about in California, are you required to secure flamble liquid storage cabinets to the wall?
00:44:47
Speaker
And I searched it. And what's interesting is the the gist for it is earthquakes.
Securing Flammable Liquid Cabinets
00:44:54
Speaker
Oh, sure. Yeah. So if you have seismic activity that could cause flammable liquids that are stored in the cabinet and the cabinet to spill over, then yeah, you should secure it. Now, i it doesn't say specifically OSHA requires it, but they highly recommend it.
00:45:12
Speaker
And as Jill and I both know, if they recommend or highly recommend something, but then something goes wrong, then they're going to require it. Because it kind of falls under the general duty clause.
00:45:22
Speaker
So if you have the potential for seismic activity in a particular plant, then you should be securing things to prevent them from falling over because that would then its cause, you know, leaks and spills and possible combination of things that should be combined. So... I would also lean on the manufacturer's recommendation and they're going to tell you when it should be anchored and when it shouldn't, you know, seismic activity, maybe traffic in the location with forklift activity, who knows. And then also if it needs to be secured, the manufacturer is going to tell you the right way to do that so that you're not, you're not ruining the integrity of the, of the flamble liquid cabinet itself. Makes sense.
Propane Tank Storage and Regulations
00:46:03
Speaker
Yeah. All right. um Someone asked, what's the OSHA requirement for the frequency of safety meetings? Is it once a week, twice a month, once a month?
00:46:12
Speaker
Oh, well, guess what? There isn't an OSHA regulation that requires you to have safety meetings unless unless you have state-specific regulation. So state of Minnesota, for example, where Todd and I did work as OSHA investigators, there was a statute, there is a statute that requires employers over a certain size to have a safety committee. And it has to be joint labor and management. And then the frequency with which you have to do that training um is spelled out in the statute. So you may, if you're in a state plan, OSHA state, meaning the state has jurisdiction over the feds, you might have a requirement like that. um Safety committees, probably in the A to Z index, I'm just glancing really quickly, there might be guidance on it, but there isn't an actual requirement.
00:46:59
Speaker
law on it. Safety committees. I don't see safety committees in the A to Z index. All right, Todd, you want to pick another one? I'm just searching. There's a question on how often should wildfire training be done in California?
00:47:12
Speaker
In California, wildlife, wildfire training for professionals such as annual fire safety refresher RT-130 must be conducted annually. Off the top of my head, I would say if there is a risk, yeah, annual training, especially refresher training, if anything's changed, it should be done. Yeah.
00:47:30
Speaker
Yeah, Todd, let's tackle this one to together. um Question is, are spare propane tanks used for forklifts not allowed to be stored inside? I couldn't find and still can't find a solid black and white answer on this.
00:47:45
Speaker
Yeah, I've e been asked this before, and yes, they need to be stored outside because a leaking up propane tank is basically can explode. I don't know if it's under the OSHA standards or under the propane something society.
00:47:59
Speaker
and Yeah, yeah, right. and the standard And you could go to your, um you know, your forklift company, like if you're renting your forklifts or whoever, who actually, not that company, but whoever you're getting your propane for, and they likely have the standard that um Todd's talking about. Yeah.
00:48:18
Speaker
The consensus, it it would be a consensus building organization on on that. And of course, you want to keep those propane tanks away from oxygen tanks. um That is in the OSHA standard. You want to keep flammable liquids away from away from oxygen.
Federal vs. State OSHA Standards
00:48:33
Speaker
All right. Let's see. What else do we have here?
00:48:38
Speaker
There's a question in here about the 300A forms that need to be posted. On February 1st, which is. remember that one. Yeah, that was. e So do all employee injuries should be. Yeah, here was a question, Jill. So if you've got people who are doing shipping drivers, which which 300 day to the drivers go on?
00:49:02
Speaker
ah Yeah, because they don't have a fixed a fixed location is the question, right? Because, okay, so just review for everyone really quickly. 300 logs are tied to physical address. So you have to have a separate log for each physical address you have. So when you have a mobile workforce, where do those employees go? They would go back to your main headquarters is the answer that I would give. Todd, concur?
00:49:25
Speaker
yes. yes Yeah. And then someone else just said it was the compressed gas association, Jill and Todd. Yes. That's the one we were looking for. Perfect. That's the one. Wonderful. All right.
00:49:36
Speaker
Let's see. um Todd, do you have another one you want to pick out? Oh, we finished with the the one regarding the 300 day. Oh, Christy, read us the question again. Sorry.
00:49:47
Speaker
I've got it. um It says, does all employee injuries, should they be reported for the site? Yes. We are only reporting our non-drivers since our drivers are rolling up to the parent company since the merger.
00:49:59
Speaker
Does that not seem right? Yeah. I would say if if your drivers tend to be based out of a particular building or that's where maybe their hub is, that's where they would start out or go back to, then I would include the drivers onto that three hundred a Not to every single site.
00:50:17
Speaker
Now, I tend to overdo it when it comes to OSHA reporting. So anybody who may go to a site, I may have two separate 300 days. One for, I would say, site non-drivers, as the other would be drivers not on site. But that that may seem like overkill. If OSHA asks, you have two hours to furnish it, really, you know, other than it needs to should be posted. If you just have the site posted, you're covered there. If they want to see something additional, as long as you can get to them within two hours, that's usually considered acceptable. Mm-hmm.
00:50:44
Speaker
Yeah, most most reasonable investigators will do that. All right. We have a question about tow boards on mezzanines. When are they required? All right. So, um yeah, that's a fun one. So mezzanine, if if um someone ah listening doesn't know what a mezzanine is, maybe ah an easiest way to think about it is you're you're in a facility and um an office has been erected within the factory floor, for example.
00:51:09
Speaker
And on top of the roof of that office, there's a space and someone has decided to store, you know, the Christmas decorations or extra rolls of paper, whatever it is, on top of the roof of that building within the building. That would be considered a mezzanine. So there's um regulations around, um actually, it's um I think...
00:51:31
Speaker
Todd, it am I correct? Minnesota is the one that says you have to have a posting for how much weight can be stored on a mezzanine. I think that's a Minnesota specific law. i Yeah, the placard. But no, i' I've actually used it here too. I'm pretty sure if you have overhead storage and it's it's not part of the building, it's something you...
00:51:52
Speaker
assembled, you can hire an engineer and they can take the materials that's made out of the spacing of all the structural elements and they should be able to calculate how many pounds per square inch you can store up there. yeah Okay. So, and then getting to the tow board question, um,
00:52:07
Speaker
a if human beings are going to go up there for any reason, like if you're storing things and human beings are going to go up there, you have to have an easy, a reliable access for them. So again, we go back to that ladder regulation unless you're building stairs to make sure you have the right kind of ladder for that access point. And then if human beings are going to be there, you have to have a standard guardrail system around the whole thing. And if you have things stored up there that when that human being is going up there to get the things down could be kicked onto an employee who might be working directly below, or maybe it's over like the office in the middle of the factory it could be plopped onto somebody's head when they're walking out of the door. Absolutely. Tow boards would be appropriate in that use case. All right. What else?
00:52:52
Speaker
Um, there's some that are related to topics that we're going to cover in a future webinar for sure So we definitely have plans for a part two that we'll be sharing with you all in a moment.
00:53:06
Speaker
Um, let's see, let's see, let's see. Just in general, because I'm noticing a few questions about state specific. Can you just give a review of Cal OSHA versus OSHA versus the various sort of where you're going to get regulations from different areas?
00:53:25
Speaker
Yeah, sure. And so, Christy, would you mind going to the OSHA.gov website again and then do what I know you already need know how to do and do state plan state um in the search bar? state Yeah, there you go. That works, too. All right. So um when OSHA was invented 1970, the federal government said this is going to be the law of the land. We're going to enforce 1910, 1926, the agriculture standards, yada, yada, unless, of course, the states want to have their own OSHA program. And if you do, it has to be as good or better than the federal government. So about half the states in the country decided they were going to have their own OSHA program. And so that's what you're seeing on the map right here. And the states that are in the lighter shade of blue are states that said, okay, federal OSHA, we've got this, we've got jurisdiction, we are going to adopt all of the federal standards to be as good as the federal government, and we are going to have this applicable to all employees in that particular state unless those employees work for the federal government. In that case, it goes back to
Navigating State-Specific OSHA Standards
00:54:30
Speaker
federal OSHA. The darker blue states, like you're seeing with Illinois,
00:54:33
Speaker
um Maine, their state programs only cover um state employees. So city, county, state employees. So everything else falls to the federal government. Now, this particular map, I love this map because It takes you right to the state plan, OSHA state, and shows you what's different about regulations. So yeah, k Christy, go ahead and and click on my home state, beloved Minnesota.
00:55:04
Speaker
And the all of these landing pages are created exactly the same. We're going to scroll down a little bit, and it's going to show you what's different about that state regulation. So past coverage, unique standards to that state. so you can see all of the unique standards for Minnesota.
00:55:21
Speaker
And so federal is in place. You have to comply with federal. And then the unique standards for that state are right here.
Session Wrap-Up and Resources
00:55:27
Speaker
Now, if we flip back to California, which everyone thinks is the hardest one because they say they have the most.
00:55:34
Speaker
Hmm. Do they really have the most regulations? Now, when California said they were going to adopt the federal regulation, they they did, but they don't call them 1910 and 1926. They call them Calo-Shabis, Calo-Shabat.
00:55:50
Speaker
Now, look at those unique standards. Do you see how small that list is compared to Minnesota? Mm-hmm. Yeah, right? Yeah, that's where it gets confusing because there really aren't as many unique standards. If we want to go really crazy, let's look at Oregon.
00:56:07
Speaker
And actually, one before I leave this, you want to go to the the, when you click on a state, this pop-up box you're seeing gives you OSHA's webpage summarizing that state.
00:56:18
Speaker
But if you want to really dig into the Cal OSHA website, they also link directly to the state. Oregon or Washington? Which one did you want? um Washington. Washington. So we're going to go to OSHA's page on Washington, but you can go directly into Washington's website, which is, yeah you know, getting it from the horse's mouth for the most. Look how many unique standards Washington state has compared to Minnesota compared to California.
00:56:43
Speaker
Anybody out there from Washington, you've got a lot of unique regulations. All right. um I feel like, gosh, can we answer one more, Christy, or do we need to share resources with people? We wanted to really quickly, um i just want to move on.
00:57:00
Speaker
And let you all know that, again, so many questions came in during registration and during the webinar that we weren't able to cover everything, of course. So we focused on a few topic areas.
00:57:13
Speaker
um We have already set up in a month. Part two our safety unscripted and really want to dig more into these four topic areas.
00:57:24
Speaker
um So again, this information will be sent to you. We have this fantastic um landing page that we've created that has additional information. So this yeah URL, or if you want to scan the QR code to get to this page, um I can show it to you as well.
00:57:43
Speaker
um This page has a link to register. It'll have a recording of the webinar added to it tomorrow. And then some of the resources that we've talked about today that you've heard um Jill and Todd talking about are listed in here, including a link to the documentary. I know a few of you were talking about that in the question box.
00:58:03
Speaker
um And a great page um that really digs into in more detail via short, easy to watch and follow videos of navigating OSHA.gov, where to uncover some of that great information and the resources in there.
00:58:20
Speaker
um So please feel free to look at the follow-up information. Let me give you that yeah URL and QR code. You will get an email tomorrow with a link to that page, and where to register for the webinar on the 25th of February, where we will continue this conversation.
00:58:41
Speaker
So as we're getting to the end, and I know how important and valuable everyone's time is on this call, I just want to thank you all for being here. Thank you, Jill and Todd, for sharing your knowledge, your expertise, your how to go out and find it if I don't know, which might be one of the most important skills.
00:59:01
Speaker
um And I guess everyone have a wonderful rest of the week. And you can ask us questions. You see our contact information there. And someone's already goading us to do a session two and three, Todd. So it looks like we're going to be at this for a while because, oh my gosh, you asked us so many questions today that we couldn't even get to. Thank you all so much for all the smart questions you asked.
00:59:24
Speaker
Yes. All righty. Take care, everybody. Bye-bye. Bye, everyone. Thank you. Thank you for spending your time listening today. And more importantly, thank you for your contribution toward the common good.
00:59:36
Speaker
May your employees and those we influence know that our profession cares deeply about human well-being, which is the core of our practice. If you aren't subscribed and want to hear past and future episodes, you can subscribe in any podcast player or you can find us and read the transcript and listen at hsi.com.
00:59:55
Speaker
We'd love it if you could leave a rating and review on iTunes. It really helps us connect the show with more and more yeah ehs professionals like Dr. Lushin and i Special thanks to Emily Gould, our podcast producer. And until next time, thanks for listening.