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126: Transforming EHS Professionals into Strategic Business Partners
291 Plays29 days ago
Does your EHS program have a negative reputation within your organization? Are you tired of always just being associated with regulations, instead of being seen as an integral business driver? Welcome back Subena Colligan, a seasoned industrial hygienist and safety professional, who leads EHS professionals towards becoming strategic business partners. Her approach focuses on developing elite EHS programs by aligning them with business outcomes and risk tolerance. She advises on how to engage with C-suite executives by understanding company priorities and building trust. Subena employs an audit-strategize-resolve model to gather data, create strategic plans, and implement quick wins, facilitating transformation over an 18-month period. She also emphasizes the importance of self-awareness, emotional intelligence, and concentrating on controllable factors during periods of change and uncertainty.
Ernst & Young EHS Maturity Model
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Transcript
Introduction to Sabina Culligan
00:00:08
Speaker
This is the Accidental Safety Pro brought to you by HSI. This episode is recorded January 23rd, 2025. My name is Jill James, HSI's Chief Safety Officer.
00:00:20
Speaker
And today our guest is Sabina Culligan. Sabina is a certified industrial hygienist, a certified safety professional, and is the principal consultant at EHS Transformation Consultants.
00:00:32
Speaker
She's also an Air Force veteran. Sabina has dedicated her career to thought leadership in advancing the EHS profession. And she joins us to- today from Atlanta.
Career Changes & EHS Focus
00:00:44
Speaker
Welcome back to the show, Sabina. Thank you for having me back, Jill. Yeah, so Sabina, for anyone who might not remember, was a guest on the show back in 2022. If you want to look it up, it's episode 90. If you'd like to hear Sabina's full origin story and how she accidentally found her way into this profession.
00:01:09
Speaker
um But how about Sabina, we start with a little with a little update. Since 2022, what has what has changed for you? Well, I think this is perfect, ah specifically for this episode, Jill, because the landscape of our responsibilities are shifting.
00:01:30
Speaker
And ah foundation, even from our 2022 episode to today, strategy. was really around strategy And influence.
00:01:40
Speaker
And how can we meet our business partners, which is a lot of the time where we work, where they are. And so from 2022 to 2025, that seems like just yesterday we were here.
Leadership Skills & Self-awareness
00:01:52
Speaker
have rebranded. seems like just yesterday we were here um we have rebranded So went from Colligan coaching where it was myself um doing leadership and executive coaching for EHS directors and above to now an environmental health and safety consulting firm, EHS Transformation Consultants.
00:02:18
Speaker
And now we are focused on improving and meeting companies where they are to develop world-class EHS programs.
00:02:29
Speaker
and Congratulations. Thank you. Yes. So there's a team now. ah We've been working with these multi-billion dollar manufacturers And we have a signature program that is Audit Strategize Resolve, where it just encompasses everything that our EHS programs need in order to build that world-class program out for them.
00:02:58
Speaker
Fantastic. So Sabina, you've dedicated your career to the service of the EHS profession, you know, and obviously including what you're doing with your consulting firm in the way that you've grown it.
00:03:13
Speaker
What are some of those strategies that you're teaching yeah ehs professionals now um to to best to support their organizations, including including their leadership teams?
00:03:29
Speaker
Absolutely. um so what i introduce and lead with is that we need to be business partners. We need to understand business outcomes and that allows us to effectively manage risk.
00:03:49
Speaker
We can only manage risk if we understand the risk tolerance of the organization the leaders in that organization.
Organizational Goals & Data Insights
00:03:57
Speaker
So one thing that has also changed in that couple of years is that now I am actually a part of the um teaching team at the Harvard Chan School of Public Health.
00:04:11
Speaker
They have the management and leadership skills for EHS professionals. Wow. Yes, thank you. Wow, congratulations. Thank you. So this course has been around for over 20 years.
00:04:25
Speaker
um Some of the the best of the best in the industry have you know laid there their foundation there. And so we talk about negotiation.
00:04:37
Speaker
Specifically, I talk about ah awareness, self-awareness and understanding ourselves so that we can navigate in that corporate world.
00:04:48
Speaker
um function And it doesn't just have to be corporate. It's any, any function of your life, you need to have self awareness, I have self awareness at home, you have to have self awareness at the gym.
00:05:02
Speaker
And you've also really needed to create great influence um around you. Hmm. yeah Yeah, as well with with life, it's an inside job, right?
00:05:14
Speaker
So we start with ourselves first, figuring out what your North Star is um and and being present so that we can be those influencers for the business outcomes that you're talking about.
00:05:28
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. Will you Sabina, will you shout out the the program at Harvard one more time if people are not familiar with it, if they want to read about it? Yes. So it is at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health.
00:05:43
Speaker
And the name of the course is Management and Leadership Skills for EHS Professionals. They do this course twice a year. in March, they do it in person.
00:05:54
Speaker
um In September, they do it online. i highly recommend if you have the opportunity to do that in person, but leaders from around the world are here. i think the last time we did this course, we had folks from United Arab Emirates um over to California.
00:06:14
Speaker
So it's just such a dynamic mix. There are folks from nonprofit organizations that have EHS professionals up to our Fortune 500, 100 companies as well.
00:06:29
Speaker
yeah Yeah. So Sabina, I'm thinking for our conversation today, talked, you just mentioned business outcomes and supporting the EHS professionals in in how they can have those conversations about business outcomes.
00:06:46
Speaker
Let's have that conversation. And, you know, you just talked about people figuring out where they stand and who they are. Do you want to talk about some principles that you that you coach on for that, too? Or where would you like to start today?
00:07:05
Speaker
Absolutely. So we can start at the top and then work our way down. Yeah. Okay. Perfect. So i think it's important to understand why you need to know who you are, um but you have to kind of know what you're up against.
Holistic Safety Management
00:07:21
Speaker
And so that's where we, ro I talked about this audit strategize resolve because it applies to self as much as it applies to business outcome, right? It's kind of that same principle.
00:07:37
Speaker
And what I love about it. And when you know something works is when you can apply it everywhere. And so having an understanding, I'll take the example of when we come into an organization, most of the time we are working with operational leaders And so that's a difference for what ah many EHS professionals are taking a look at and other firms as well um have the opportunity to do. So we have these chief supply chain officers, vice president of operations, these folks that say, we've got to do something different to to build, build on whatever it is that they are desiring. Mm-hmm.
00:08:29
Speaker
And so one thing that we do is get an understanding of who they are and where the organization wants to go. here And when you know where you want to go, you actually have a purpose for collecting data.
00:08:47
Speaker
And think that's an important place to stop because we will go out, collect information, collect And then you're like, well what the heck do I do with this?
00:09:01
Speaker
And then maybe you needed to collect different information, but because you just kind of blindly went in and collected information and without knowing where you're going, without knowing where you're going. yeah And you're like, oh, well, you know, what do I do with all of this?
00:09:19
Speaker
And you can make something of it for sure. um Or maybe not, but you have to know why you're collecting information.
00:09:29
Speaker
The other side of that, Jill, is when you are collecting information, you have to have the willingness to go do something about it.
00:09:42
Speaker
Which is why it's so important to be ah intentional about the the data that you're collecting. Because if I ask the question, I had better be ready to do something about it.
00:09:57
Speaker
If not, then we've wasted people's time. Mm hmm. I was just thinking about, you know, how you you set up the the types of leaders in an organization that you're that you're meeting with. um i'm I'm suspecting alongside EHS leaders. So you're you you' asking C-team, where are you going or where do you want to be?
00:10:22
Speaker
yeah um And you're gathering data that is in support of of getting to that destination. Can you share ah few examples of some of the data that you've been gathering? assume Understanding is not the same for every organization, but just so people can get an idea of kind of some of the things you're gathering.
00:10:42
Speaker
Absolutely. So we take a holistic look at the safety management system, environmental management system. But some of the data that we are looking at consistently across the board are roles, responsibilities, accountabilities, and authorities.
00:11:00
Speaker
That is so important to understand. right We want to know what how this organization is functioning yeah and where the silos are showing up or ah where the collaboration is.
EHS Programs: Revenue vs. Regulation
00:11:15
Speaker
where those really shining stars are and opportunities to really thrive given the correct resources. um We also take a look at regulatory requirements. That is a foundation to a functioning environmental health and safety program.
00:11:35
Speaker
But then we're looking at the stakeholders along the edges as well. So that can be contractors, ah procurement, um Our regulatory authorities, especially if they have some influence on maybe be coming on site and taking samples, right? Like what are their, how are they perceiving these operations?
00:11:59
Speaker
So ah really just a holistic view. here And when we say in support of, just because we're looking at we the goals and the objectives of that C-suite, it doesn't mean that we aren't being honest with what their gaps are.
00:12:22
Speaker
yeah So that support is also and truth and what they need to know in order to make the decisions that need to be made um and whether or not their ideal is realistic.
00:12:40
Speaker
Mm hmm. And. Hmm. and um I'm wondering how, when you're, so you've gathered the data, I'm guessing is the next step that you're presenting your results, like here are the gaps and here are our suggestions for for making modifications.
00:13:03
Speaker
Yeah. so we present the gaps, right? So now we have, we have information yeah and we have an idea of kind of what the landscape is, but we still can, you know, have, we can create anything that we want, which is absolutely beautiful.
00:13:22
Speaker
um So there's these, There's tons of studies out there that we lean on. One of them is the Ernst & Young EHS maturity model.
00:13:35
Speaker
Yeah, and they teach us about that. Yeah. Yeah. So this EHS maturity model. And so for folks that may not know, Ernst & Young um is one of the top four consulting firms and around the globe.
00:13:50
Speaker
And so they started off working with taxes and now they are embedded throughout governments, Fortune 100s.
00:14:01
Speaker
I mean, everywhere they have their fingers and everything. And what they identified is that there is this advantage that mature EHS programs can have.
00:14:17
Speaker
And That advantage is that a mature EHS program compared to there the average performing EHS program is about 16% in revenue.
00:14:32
Speaker
So could you imagine going to your leadership and saying, i can get you 16% advantage in revenue over a competitor because of this program?
Engaging C-suite Executives
00:14:50
Speaker
That's a business outcome that every C-suite wants to hear. That is a business outcome that is measurable, right? And so that is not always how EHS is seen. It's this overhead and it kind of gets this um negativity that comes along with regulation.
00:15:11
Speaker
So on the other side of that, we we primarily work with manufacturers, right? yeah So the National Association of Manufacturing put out a study that said regulation in general costs about can cost up to $50,000 per employee.
00:15:29
Speaker
Okay. On a business. Okay. Right. So 1200 employee organization paying $50,000 a person just in regulation, that doesn't feel positive.
00:15:44
Speaker
Right. Right. To the financial group. That's going to make everyone start to twitch. Right. It makes everyone twitch. And so how do we leverage these positive findings that say, yes, there are costs involved.
00:16:01
Speaker
However, we can increase revenue by multiple percentages, right? By 16% even. burden has become an advantage. Mm-hmm. this burden has become an advantage And that's those business outcomes and that partnership that we have to you know lean into because sometimes that is not the business outcome that is prevalent.
00:16:33
Speaker
So we have to know what is there and what's going to influence. Sometimes companies are just in ah growth stage or research and development stage.
00:16:46
Speaker
And they're not prioritizing. I don't know any business that truly isn't prioritizing profits, but ah sometimes they're not. That's not what's driving them. What's driving them is, you know, getting ahead of the competition ah with product or ah moving into a new sector where they're expecting to be below um on their profit margins.
00:17:09
Speaker
And so understanding exactly where they are And who to influence to provide ah that benefit is important. Mm-hmm.
Building Trust with Operational Leaders
00:17:21
Speaker
that benefit is so important
00:17:25
Speaker
As I'm listening, Sabina, I'm thinking, you know, you you're you're talking about the manufacturing sector that you're working with right now. And, you know, how you've, because you've been invited in to help them already, um you have a unique situation having access to that C-suite to be able to ask those questions about where they're headed and what those goals and objectives are for business outcomes.
00:17:54
Speaker
If you're an EHS leader who's listening to this right now and thinking, understand what Sabine is saying. i don't know how to gain access or what should I say to be able to knock on the door and and say, Hey, I can help you increase your in increase your business outcome by 16%, but I don't really have a path to the C-suite.
00:18:19
Speaker
What could you recommend for people who are listening to try to wedge themselves in? What would be a strategy to start?
00:18:30
Speaker
Absolutely. So there's different ways. um And so when I started my career and Jill, hopefully I'm not going too far back, but When I started my career, I sat meetings that I didn't necessarily get invited to.
00:18:49
Speaker
um So in the Air Force, we had a conference table in this open space, and then we had cubicles. And so my cubicle was my back was facing the conference table.
00:19:05
Speaker
And so I would just um ear hustle is what I would call it. And listen, ear hustle. Okay, got it. Okay, I would ear hustle. um Eavesdropping is probably the correct way of saying And so then eventually I asked the question, well, can I just sit in on the meeting?
00:19:24
Speaker
yeah Be a fly on the wall, right? Understand what's happening there. Cause no disturbances, ask no questions. I just want to absorb. um That turned into just staying when I moved into the corporate world We would have these meetings that EHS was invited to with the operational team.
00:19:47
Speaker
And then there was a ah meeting immediately proceeding because goodness knows it's hard to get on everyone's schedule. And so I would just sit in on those meetings because my counterparts didn't leave.
00:19:59
Speaker
And so I didn't either. And I actually got called out by the executive assistant for our VP. She said, well, you know, you're not on that meeting invite, right? And I was like, well, nobody else left. So I figured I should have been there.
00:20:11
Speaker
But she said, that's fine. You can just continue to stay. Right. But then taking those insights and setting up time after the meeting.
00:20:22
Speaker
Right. That's when the real stuff is happening. The meeting after the meeting. Yeah. And so. Having that conversation afterward and asking someone like, hey, can you help me understand this a little bit more?
00:20:36
Speaker
Right. And they understand that you want to learn that you are um open and curious. You're not there to create um strife because great we just want the path of least resistance at most causes.
00:20:53
Speaker
And so building on that relationship and then Allowing that person, that adjacent relationship to continue opening the door.
00:21:04
Speaker
ah and it takes time. It takes consistency. It takes showing up in places that maybe you don't have an actual need to be there. hmm.
00:21:16
Speaker
But when you understand the business and you have those conversations and you can build that trust, you start to move through in a different way.
00:21:27
Speaker
but Showing up at the meeting that talks about the challenges and the production outcome oh And, you know, being able to come back and say, hey, there's this challenge that we're having from EHS, but we're going to wait until we get over this production hurdle, because I know that this is a challenge for you right now.
00:21:50
Speaker
And that's your priority, right? That little bit of trust, not saying, I don't care that production is your job and that's how you get paid, but this is my problem.
00:22:01
Speaker
So you have to go solve my problem too. with saying We can manage this risk for this short period of time. And then once we get past this production struggle, we'll come back and address this.
00:22:16
Speaker
Shows care and builds that trust and it starts to open doors for you and create sponsorship that you need to get to those levels of leadership that are making decisions.
Premortems in Strategy
00:22:31
Speaker
Beautiful, beautiful. i'm You know, leading with curiosity is what you're talking about, Sabina, and and saying i you know ah rather than coming in on the approach of we need to do you know house on fire, all of these things, regulatory, blah, blah, blah, blah. blah It's more of I'm curious about how I can support the overall mission of this company in in ways in which are going to get us all to the place that that we want to be.
00:23:03
Speaker
And yeah I want to understand how can i help our business, you know, what are the business outcomes you want to see? And I want to be able to be a helper to you in that, in that way.
00:23:17
Speaker
Yeah. That's beautiful. Fantastic. Yeah. So that's one of the ways that we can influence things. Yeah. So you've talked about auditing in companies.
00:23:30
Speaker
um You've been, i think, I suspect we've been talking about strategy right now. Do you want to talk more about strategizing? um Sure. So just one last piece on strategy that I think is so important. Yeah.
00:23:47
Speaker
And the piece that we often miss is what we call a pre-mortem. And so when I was training on strategy, I trained at McKinsey and Company.
00:24:00
Speaker
And so McKinsey and Company is that company that comes in when the house is on fire. still think about Peloton. Okay. Okay. Great products. Love the Peloton product. Love, you know, the instructors and the things, but the business was absolutely sinking.
00:24:21
Speaker
um For context, the stock prices went up like, I don't know, maybe a hundred dollars a share during the pandemic. And then took a very steep turn.
00:24:33
Speaker
They're on like their fifth CEO. I think at this point they have like co-CEOs, right?
00:24:39
Speaker
There's a lot happening on the business side, right? And so this is the company that is the in-house consultant for about 80 of the 100 Fortune out there.
00:24:55
Speaker
So top of the list when it comes to those consulting firms. And one of their um activities that they utilize is called a premortem.
00:25:07
Speaker
And that premortem is analyzing everything that could go wrong in making the strategy come to life and performing a risk assessment on that.
Premortems for Personal Balance
00:25:22
Speaker
Identifying what the gaps are, what we would do, how do we identify it if it shows up or accepting that risk, right? And I think a lot of times we come up with this great play-in.
00:25:36
Speaker
But we don't we don't identify how that plan could fail, right? So i think it's another testament um even to my business, right? I started the business.
00:25:53
Speaker
This is great. I love what I'm doing. but looking at the different ways that it could fill in the future and saying, okay, if these things show up, then we've got to go make an adjustment.
00:26:06
Speaker
18 months in those things started to show up and saying, okay, so we can make an adjustment now. Another one of those adjustments was planning for political landscapes, right?
00:26:21
Speaker
Ray Dalio has incredible book called Changing World Order. And looking at what is going on just around the world um and adjusting to what's happening as well.
00:26:38
Speaker
And so great the regulatory landscape is undoubtedly shifting over the next few years. Doesn't matter which way or the other.
00:26:50
Speaker
um It's just about adjusting to the reality and dealing with the truth of the matter. you and In a global in a global and local perspective, I assume is what Ray talks about.
00:27:03
Speaker
Yes, global and local. um He definitely emphasizes that global, but you can see it locally. um And the things that you just miss over time.
00:27:14
Speaker
And so that premortem is so important to do, um to plan for that. And every every organization needs that in their strategy.
00:27:25
Speaker
And in your own personal life. i i I mean, ah you said pre-mortem and immediately I thought worst kind case scenario planning. Like I've, I am a worst case scenario planner in all things.
00:27:40
Speaker
um But pre-mortem is a really, a nicer way to say that. Yeah. You know, so what's interesting is i am an absolute optimist, Jill. I know you are, Sabina.
00:27:53
Speaker
I think everything is possible. And so when people are like, well, that's not going to work. I'm like, ah probably will, though. like hu You know, so when you are that extreme optimist, yeah then, you know, it's hard to really live in that premortem.
00:28:14
Speaker
And say that something could fail, but we have to be realistic. Yeah. And you talked about that happening in your personal life as well. There's ah gentleman, I don't know his name. He is the founder of Kava, the Mediterranean bowl.
00:28:30
Speaker
It's like the Chipotle of Mediterranean food. Yes. I think he founded Panera as well. Yeah. And that is something that he said. There's a Wall Street Journal article about him.
00:28:43
Speaker
Tim Paws, an incredible certified industrial hygienist, shared that on LinkedIn a few weeks ago. and he he, in that Wall Street Journal article, talks about performing a pre-mortem on his own life.
00:28:59
Speaker
Yeah. And his goals and how it's made him... um into the success that he is today so like i said when you have something that works in different modalities around that's how you know it works if you it it's not a silo it can be applied everywhere in life mm-hmm Yeah, that's it.
00:29:25
Speaker
That's beautiful. That's beautiful. And, and it it helps us achieve balance, right? And so balance in our, our personal lives, balance in our business lives. I mean, that is what we're seeking.
00:29:38
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
The Resolve Phase & Quick Wins
00:29:40
Speaker
Harmony. Yes, because not everything will be balanced. Sometimes, you know, your family life needs that that solo.
00:29:51
Speaker
It's right. um I think about some of the greatest performers out there. And they always have a ah section of give the drummer something, right? Or a guitar solo. Or they stop singing and they're dancing the entire time, right?
00:30:10
Speaker
Or they're allowing the crowd to sing. And then there's times where everyone is just humming. um At the same rhythm. Yeah. And so if we approach our lives in that same harmony and just embrace that each time it's beautiful, it lessens some of that stress as well.
00:30:32
Speaker
Beautiful. So you you talked about your model, um audit, strategize, resolve. What do you want to talk about the resolve phase? Yeah.
00:30:43
Speaker
Absolutely. So um in the resolve phase, one part of strategy is identifying the resources necessary to be successful. ah In resolve, though, we have to be, again, realistic, um truthful with ourselves.
00:31:02
Speaker
When you are making an organizational change, A transformation specifically, we know that there is about 18 month um time frame before change can really be seen.
00:31:18
Speaker
And so there's a few things that we have to do in that space. And so let me take a step back because I i just threw a stat out there but or information out.
00:31:29
Speaker
Yeah. So McKinsey and Company is fantastic with strategy. And what we know is that um from the beginning of a transformation, that there is about a 32% loss in transformation ah without a specific plan and resources assigned.
00:31:51
Speaker
So you could lose 32% of your progress without having um This that middle part of strategy and resources assigned.
00:32:02
Speaker
um I think another part, this is just my personal belief, is if you don't have that premortem, you don't have reality baked into it. And you're just that optimist. And this is what we're going to go do without realizing the truth of the matter.
00:32:20
Speaker
um You lose some of that as well. ah There's plenty of times where we can we hear that flavor of the month program. Yes. And we're going to figure it out. We're going to figure it out as we go.
00:32:33
Speaker
But we're going to get to this thing. and yeah and we'll move forward with, you know this this percentage of what we think is right, but we're we're going there. We're just going for it, right? We're throwing the spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks.
00:32:48
Speaker
no So that's what we're losing. We're losing all the spaghetti that does not stick. And so in the resolve phase is where we're looking for those resources.
00:33:00
Speaker
Sometimes that resource is us, right? We can come in, we can do the training, we can build the program. Other times it's finding that trusted partner that can get the work done ah fairly quickly. That's the electrical engineer for an art flash assessment.
00:33:18
Speaker
or um a mechanical engineer that needs to redesign machine safeguards, things that we can't do. But then there's this other piece of our quick wins, because 18 months is a really long time.
00:33:33
Speaker
yeah And to keep people motivated for that amount of time is just so difficult. And so we have our 30, 60, 180 day wins where in that audit phase, we identified you know some of those key teams, those highly motivated people, maybe even the people that just need a win.
00:33:54
Speaker
so yeah Oh, my gosh. I mean, that's so true, right? I mean, it's it's so true. if you're If you're trying to head somewhere and you know it's going to take 18 months to steer that ship, we absolutely, as human beings doing the ah the weeds of the work, need to be able to celebrate along the way.
00:34:13
Speaker
Exactly. And then you have the the outliers of folks, right? like So you have the people that have seen the flavor of the month. They've heard the hoorah story yeah and they're just not bought in. So you have to earn their trust.
00:34:29
Speaker
yeah You have to earn their energy to invest in this time, right? And so back to that earlier example where we just kind of throw something out there and we expect that people are going to do it because the business said go do it.
00:34:46
Speaker
Well, there are still, there's still a reluctance and we still have a responsibility to align meaning to the work that we do.
00:34:57
Speaker
And to earn that energy um and commitment, because sometimes it means that we have to go above and beyond. And if I get paid the same to do status quo, then why am I...
00:35:14
Speaker
being put in the the space to do above and beyond for the same. And why would I do it? Why would I do
Celebrating Small Victories
00:35:22
Speaker
it? so you know, we really take that into consideration as well. So when I say holistic, it is an entire holistic process yeah to understand um just so many dynamics to make a transformation successful. Yeah.
00:35:40
Speaker
Sabina, what have you seen for if organizations that embrace the idea of the 30, 60, 180 day wins? Like, how are they celebrating or rewarding?
00:35:56
Speaker
What does that look like to motivate the people to keep going? Like, what sort of things have you seen employers do successfully that helps with that? Absolutely. so um it depends on what those motivators are for different individuals.
00:36:13
Speaker
So um for one of our clients, ah we made the recommendation to submit them for SEA award um because you know they had they were already there with not having um injuries.
00:36:30
Speaker
And so to get that public recognition out there, right? Yeah. um For some, it's just that little bit. We have one where he was like the third or fourth general manager.
00:36:45
Speaker
And so he wanted to prove himself that, you know, he could be the one that was successful. So he was our recommendation for the 30 day win. And to really get him motivated. And I mean, his team was so excited.
00:37:01
Speaker
Just just the recognition from corporate where they had this kind of um microscope on them and everything they did in their operation.
00:37:14
Speaker
And they were kind of you know, the the black sheep, the not doing so great. Everything that came down was just bad, bad, bad. But then they had this win and it was an EHS. And then it was like, hey, great job. Look at what you're doing.
00:37:31
Speaker
And then all of a sudden there was a spark um across the board and management where they finally fell asleep. And so, but you have to get to know the DNA and what's motivating um the different and the the five, it's four, but the five love languages of workplace appreciation. Right.
00:37:54
Speaker
Right. So is it um tangibles? Is it quality time in the workplace? That quality time either means quality time with leadership, quality time, like give me time off, please. Right. So how do we influence those different places and different people?
00:38:15
Speaker
um Different regions are different. So, you know, you have to be very mindful and. um understanding and intentional for those different folks.
00:38:27
Speaker
it's um Repeat those. What did you say? Five, if five love languages in business. I mean, i'm I'm familiar in interpersonal relationships, but yeah. Explain that if you would. Yeah.
00:38:38
Speaker
So it's the five love languages of workplace appreciation. um So it's actually the same author and they did a study on workplace appreciation And so you have tangibles.
00:38:54
Speaker
um That's gifts, right? And then you have quality time. And that quality time can be Either time with leadership, because sometimes um that's important, but then that quality time can also be, I just need time off.
00:39:17
Speaker
Right. yeah Yeah. um Words of affirmation, either verbal or written. You have to understand how people are um because like me, um I'm very much so put it in a ha card, give it to me. Let me read it by myself later. Yeah.
00:39:36
Speaker
a service Yes. yeah i don't right I don't want you to see my reaction right there um Acts of service. So those are folks, they don't crave praise, right? Like they're just like, take something off of my plate.
00:39:52
Speaker
Yeah. That's all I need. Right. um But then you have to know the people because if they enjoy Or if they they could perceive acts of service as um a way of saying that you're not performing.
00:40:12
Speaker
Exactly. Like, let me help you do that. You're not good enough. Yeah, I understand. Yeah. yeah So you can't do that. And then the last love language is physical touch, which...
00:40:23
Speaker
That's probably no-no. um But there are some folks that just enjoy a hug. Right. And so you have to be very careful not to touch anybody that doesn't want to be touched.
00:40:36
Speaker
Sure. kind of nothing and between that but sometimes People just, they like pat on the back, right? Like that is their- The high five sort of piece. The high five, yes.
00:40:49
Speaker
And so I think that one is the the touchier one in the workplace. But so that's why I said it's five, but really four, because I don't i don't lean into physical touch at all.
00:41:01
Speaker
Yeah. oh Mm-hmm. But for sure, gifts, acts of service, quality time and words of affirmation. Yeah, I mean, I'm just thinking ah I'm thinking about myself and i know um words of affirmation, both in personal and and work life. That's my number one. And likely number two, I think, is quality time, not time away from work, but quality time at a decision making table.
00:41:29
Speaker
oh my gosh, right? Being trusted in that yeah space. But you know it can it can show up in so many ways. um You can take a walk, right? You can have a walking meeting yeah and just getting out of the office or taking people for lunch. And so um those are some of the places that we lean into when it comes to um how we reward those quick wins.
00:41:56
Speaker
And then getting that buy-in as well. And so sometimes you we lean into that appreciation language for those folks that we're just struggling with, of really sitting down, listening, understanding what is it that we can do in figuring out um ways to get them on board with that transformation.
00:42:18
Speaker
And it takes time, 18 months to see change, three months for it to fully take effect. It's a long time to commit.
Maintaining Control & Influence
00:42:27
Speaker
It sure it sure is. it sure is. And you need people um with staying power, people who have that commitment to being that motivating force and to to to project manage that enthusiasm for that time.
00:42:41
Speaker
Yes. Takes a lot.
00:42:46
Speaker
um You can hear me turning my pages of my notebook, probably. I'm thinking about, okay, so audit, strategize, resolve. ah Do you want to talk a little bit more about the resolution phase? ah is that And does that mean after the 18 months or does that is that the process?
00:43:05
Speaker
That is a part of that 18-1 process. Okay, gotcha. What we've been talking about. Okay. Absolutely. yeah um One of those things that we, it's the check and act stage of the plan to check act.
00:43:19
Speaker
Yeah. For context. Yeah. And so we're popping in about every six months as well, um doing audits, nothing major, but just checking in on the status of implementation of the strategy and making adjustments as necessary.
00:43:38
Speaker
And like I said, right, there is definitive relationship even within my business to show like, right there's You have to adjust to the landscape around you.
00:43:53
Speaker
and So we talked a little bit about there's a lot that's going to happen. um and right AI has come in and absolutely disrupted um every industry that you could imagine. The regulatory landscape is changing. We will likely see more mergers and acquisitions show up.
00:44:16
Speaker
um You'll see these global companies grow even larger. Even open source, um which ChatGPT. ChatGPT has a $500 billion project with the U.S. government. It's a nonprofit.
00:44:34
Speaker
So, wow you know, there's so much happening. And so we have to continually be able to adapt, keep things simple, um but we have to be able to Meet our organizations, meet the landscape they are navigating where they are. And in the cases where they want and need that competitive advantage, we are providing mature EHS programs to meet that competitive advantage.
00:45:07
Speaker
hmm. Yeah, Sabina, when we talked prior to recording, um we had a little conversation. I'm wondering if we can expand on, you know, as things are are changing at a rapid pace that for many of us may seem dizzying.
00:45:26
Speaker
upsetting um maybe maybe it adds enthusiasm as well but change nonetheless it comes in comes in all sorts of ways you had mentioned to me really having any of us sit back and and ask what are the things that are still in my control Oh, for sure. Yeah. Can you can you expand on on that? If someone is going to do that sort of what I would tend to call navel gazing, um talking about looking within...
00:46:01
Speaker
all might but What might be some of those some of those prompts those of ah for anyone who's listening and thinking, oh, my gosh, things are just I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what to do right now. ah You know, like rapid change or I'm afraid about this regulatory, you know, landscape changing or my my God, my company just acquired, you know, ah a company in a country that I don't know anything about.
00:46:29
Speaker
Oh, for sure. So there's a few things here. um Going back to the basics, that is how do you keep yourself grounded?
00:46:40
Speaker
And where are you on your self-awareness journey? right So we're going back to the beginning of the conversation, yes because you're the only person that you can control.
00:46:53
Speaker
You can't control the chief supply chain officer. You can't control anyone on the board of directors. You can't control your stakeholders. Yeah. All you can do is influence them.
00:47:05
Speaker
you can control yourself. You understand how you choose to respond. And so there's a difference between reaction and response.
00:47:16
Speaker
So reaction can be combustible, right? It can be Right. Like something happens and you just react. Yeah. And then you have the response where you're able to take a second, see what's moving. Is my heart rate getting a little bit faster?
00:47:36
Speaker
Is this one I typically like to throw out some explicatives? What is it that or I get afraid and I am turning inward and kind of shutting myself off from the world?
00:47:50
Speaker
And then choose how you want to respond. And you can say, I'm going to lean in at this time, or I'm going to choose not to speak at all because. it will help with you know my control, my self-control.
00:48:05
Speaker
yeah And so that is the the place. The other place that you can control to an extent in the workplace are your programs and your integrity.
00:48:18
Speaker
um So it's important, especially on the ethical side and the integrity of your programs, You can't control how an organization chooses to accept risk.
00:48:32
Speaker
What you can control is the information that they receive and the risk that they are accepting. And you can release some of that responsibility as well.
00:48:45
Speaker
There's a time in my career where we had these three pillars in our organization And we couldn't get the manpower to get them done and effectively and within compliance. And so I took it to the vice president of the organization and he would happen to be my boss. And I said, listen, not my risk to accept. So here you go.
00:49:09
Speaker
This is the risk. This is what we're accepting. He said, no, no, no, no. no That's not my risk to accept. That's the senior vice president's risk to accept. So, yeah. the one The one time that things go uphill instead of down. Okay. Exactly. Right. But sometimes though, because we are owners and we have that ownership model, we say, hey, this is mine.
00:49:33
Speaker
um You can't, you can't, You can influence, but you can't change regulatory policy. um and And so you just have to know the things that you can accept and the wisdom to know the difference of the things that will just drive you mad.
00:49:55
Speaker
That's right. That's right. Amen. Amen to that. Right back to where we started. Emotional intelligence. now Yeah. i um You've said things in such a more beautiful way than, i mean, you're you're talking about about this and I'm thinking.
00:50:12
Speaker
Okay, so knowing your line in the sand. And I've had that same conversation with with leaders as well. Like, I know my ethics. I know my North Star. Here's the my line in the sand.
00:50:24
Speaker
And if this, if this pretty you you know, we've now crossed into this other territory. Yes. So here we are. Mm-hmm. I think though too, Jill, what's so important is for us to truly be global citizens.
00:50:40
Speaker
Yes. To really lean into information. You said, you know, there's so much happening. It can be dizzying, right? Yes. And so what's important is to understand what is changing out there and how you can stay ahead of it.
00:50:57
Speaker
And so how do you capture a skill that's going to be necessary regardless? If you are eyeing those large corporations that are prime for global um operations, then...
00:51:14
Speaker
How do you make yourself more attractive to that space? How do you use start networking and building relationships? Those are also things that you can control.
00:51:25
Speaker
yes To give yourself more power. And so what's important is that you feel that you have power where you are. So if that's. Capturing a certification that makes you better off if that's paying down debt because we don't get away from our financial health and our power as well to say, OK, now I'm in more of a prime position to have more liquidity. So.
00:51:54
Speaker
If something were to happen, it doesn't put me underneath. It's all of those things that create power around you make decisions for yourself versus someone else making decisions on your behalf.
00:52:09
Speaker
It's doing the it's doing the premortem that you're talking about. Absolutely. Yeah. And we're in, and identifying where those gaps are and shoring up your own personal self.
00:52:21
Speaker
Yeah. As a professional. Yeah. That's beautiful. Sabina. Beautiful. um he ah As we, as we close our time today, and I'm so grateful for you coming here, especially in the, in the time and place that we're at in 2025 with,
00:52:41
Speaker
with Rapid changes happening around us globally.
Empowering Conclusion & Connection
00:52:46
Speaker
I think this is just such a beautiful, grounding, helpful message. are there Are there closing thoughts that you have, Sabina?
00:52:56
Speaker
um Absolutely. we We control our own destinies. There is an absolute... power in knowing where you are in time and space and knowing that you always have the ability to lead yourself and influence others.
00:53:17
Speaker
And that's where we are um with whether it's our program, um our consulting firms or our personal lives. And so I'm always here to ah motivate and be the hype person for folks in EHS. I absolutely love this profession.
00:53:36
Speaker
i would love to connect with anyone that is listening to this podcast. If we're not connected on LinkedIn already, please find me. um c Send a message.
00:53:48
Speaker
would love to have a conversation or at least know that we are in each other's network and learn from you, but also hopefully you're able to have a chance to learn from me as well.
00:54:00
Speaker
Beautiful. Sabina, so grateful for you and your contribution toward our profession. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you, Jill. Thank you for having me again. You're welcome.
00:54:12
Speaker
And thank you all for spending your time listening today. And more importantly, thank you for your contribution toward the common good. May our employees and those we influence know that our profession cares deeply about human well-being, which is the core of our practice.
00:54:27
Speaker
If you aren't subscribed and want to hear past and future episodes, you can subscribe in iTunes, the Apple podcast app, or any other podcast player you'd like. Or if you prefer, you can read the transcript of each episode and listen at hsi.com.
00:54:41
Speaker
We'd love it if you could leave a rating and review us on iTunes. It really helps us connect the show with more and more health and safety professionals like Sabina and I. Special thanks to Emily Gould, our podcast producer.
00:54:52
Speaker
And until next time, thanks for listening.