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122: Reducing Musculoskeletal Injuries With a Human Performance Coach
351 Plays1 month ago
**EARLY DROP ALERT!** Happy Thanksgiving and safe travels to our listeners who celebrate the holiday.
Are your employees in a physically demanding occupation? This episode is for you! Jill is joined by Jason Bacigalupo, a human performance coach at Vimocity. Jason discusses his role in helping utility workers, manufacturing employees, and others reduce musculoskeletal injuries. He describes how diaphragmatic breathing, dynamic joint mobility, and other strategies help workers feel better and perform their jobs more safely. In fact, Jason shares success stories of reducing injury rates by over 40% and helping workers regain mobility and reduce daily pain! Tune in now to learn how doing the little things every day add up to big health and safety gains in the long run.
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Transcript
Introduction: Accidental Safety Pro & Jason Bachegalupo
00:00:09
Speaker
This is the Accidental Safety Pro brought to you by HSI. This episode was recorded October 22nd, 2024. My name is Jill James, HSI's chief safety officer. And today our guest is Jason Bachegalupo. Jason is a human performance coach. His expertise lies in guiding people toward reaching their peak performance levels. Jason is currently a performance coach with Vemosity.
Intersection of Human Performance Coaching and Safety
00:00:33
Speaker
Jason joins us today from Braytonton, Florida. Welcome to the show.
00:00:38
Speaker
Jill, thanks so much for having me on. I'm grateful to be here, excited to to be on with y'all today, so thank you. Well, Jason, I mean, people might have listened to this introduction and thought, human performance coach, I thought this was the accidental safety pro podcast. What the heck is Jill doing with the human performance coach on this podcast? And what is the intersectionality, assuming there is one? So Jason,
00:01:03
Speaker
want to tell us a little bit about yourself and let's dig into what that intersectionality is as we go.
From Rural Roots to Utility Industry Partnerships
00:01:10
Speaker
Absolutely. e There may be nothing more accidental than me being aligned with safety. ah <unk>ve I've had the opportunity over the last 15 years or so to work with individuals and athletes on really helping them, as you noted in the open, help them boost their performance. And I can come in many forums, whether it's thinking about strength,
00:01:35
Speaker
or speed or just more generally being able to do their basic activities of daily living. It's helping people be able to do the things that that they really want to be able to do. and It was funny, several years ago when my wife and I lived in Atlanta, ah she hit me one day and she said, hey, I just got this really cool outreach from a company in Seattle. They're interested in what I do and what do you think? And of course, the backstory there is as I once joked with her that the only West Coast that I wanted to live on was the West Coast of Florida.
00:02:08
Speaker
What it actually opened my eyes to was, well, you know what else is out there? Because you know if if we do move and I need to you know look and see what's out there, um you know what kind of performance coach jobs are out there in Seattle? and And it just so happened that there was this small startup company who was working with the utility industry. Now, I know really nothing about the
Physical Demands and Wellness in the Workplace
00:02:30
Speaker
utility industry. and And in fact, it was still pretty naive, Jill, to use your word to the intersection between the work that I was doing in in human performance and safety. But you know as it turned out, it became a really good partnership and had the opportunity to to go out to Seattle.
00:02:51
Speaker
and begin working with folks in the workforce, utility workers, primarily, but also folks in manufacturing and in maritime and not only understanding the nature of the work they do, but some of the challenges they faced and really getting an understanding for the fact that at the end of the day, these folks use their bodies every single day to do their job. And they're really making the world work. And so giving back to those folks, I grew up in a small rural community in Vermont, where you know both from a family perspective, folks were you know working hard and using their bodies to do their job. My dad is a welder by trade. He grew up around farmers. And and so really having an opportunity to to give back to a ah group of folks who you know really
00:03:38
Speaker
don't always have access to the best tips and strategies and and really trying to find a way forward to help those folks be able to move and feel their best. So that's kind of how I wound up where I am today and in in working with populations ah to help them really be able to maximize their potential both at work but then away from work as well.
00:03:57
Speaker
Yeah, you know, as I'm listening to I'm thinking about um a piece of my career was in um occupational, working in an occupational medicine clinic, a department rather within a clinic and one of the um One of the groups of employees that we worked with often were firefighters. And the reason for that was because of the physicality of the job, particularly for volunteer firefighters who can go from whatever it is they're doing in their
00:04:29
Speaker
day-to-day life to having to carry, lift, run, walk, climb with a self-contained breathing apparatus on. And statistically what we knew about what what stresses and strains that put on the body and the um higher likelihood they had of having cardiac events because of it. And so the occupational medicine department was really engaged with them for that reason. And so when we think about the utility industry, Jason, for anyone who doesn't maybe know about the physicality of that work, do you want to describe a little bit about that?
00:05:12
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, from from dawn till dusk and well beyond, these are folks that are getting up and they are getting up in bucket trucks, they're reaching overhead with hot sticks, they're trying to repair lines, they're they're moving heavy objects, they're constantly and using their bodies on a day-to-day basis to perform labor-intensive work. and And so just, if you know you be think about just you know when the power goes out and you know what's what's required of that individual to get that power back on? Well, it's you know it's a lot of overhead work. It's a lot of awkward positions. It's a lot of things that maybe we, yeah as individuals, we take for granted. and But at the end of the day, it's very taxing on the body. And these folks get up and they do it day after day after day. Really, for those individuals, it's not uncommon when we've surveyed the workforce, it's not uncommon for for that particular line of work to report roughly 80% that are going to say they deal with some sort of pain or discomfort.
Addressing Pain Management Methods
00:06:16
Speaker
And the reality is, if you're showing up to work every single day in pain,
00:06:23
Speaker
the likelihood that not only can you can perform your job as well as you've liked you, but then you're also just more generally aware when we're in pain, what we know about you know brain science is that when we're in pain, we're commonly distracted. So that means our ability to recognize hazards is diminished, our ability to focus on our tasks is diminished. And you no one wants to be in pain. And when I ask folks, hey, how do you typically deal with pain? Jill, what do you think the number one answer they give me for how they deal with pain?
00:06:51
Speaker
Well, it's I'm guessing their answers have something to do with either Advil or alcohol. Did I get one of them right? You got them both, right? Yeah. Advil, a leaf, six pack of beer, whatever it is, I just don't want to be in pain anymore. And the hard thing is that doesn't solve the problem. It masks it. But it doesn't actually provide that individual with long lasting relief. and And so typically what we might see is then we're just going to kind of deal with it. We're going to just accept the fact that we're supposed to be in pain. And that's just how things are.
00:07:27
Speaker
And what we know about pain is that it's a precursor to something more serious. And so what I love about the work that I get to do is really teach someone how to take care of their muscles and joints, how to position their body, how to optimize their their daily performance so that not only are they able to perform their work with less discomfort, but they can go home at the end of the day feeling great so that they could get up the next day and do it again.
Transition to Exercise Science and Coaching Approach
00:07:57
Speaker
Yeah. So Jason, I just want to back up a little tiny bit as you're describing all of these things. And I mentioned that you're a human performance expert. How does one become that? Tell us a little bit about your educational background and training.
00:08:13
Speaker
Yeah, so it's it's funny. So my my ah undergrad was actually in in business and marketing and management. And along the way, I started coaching. And I was living in Vermont. I was coaching football and having a lot more fun doing that than I was my actual day job.
00:08:32
Speaker
And so it got the wheels turning. How can I sort of parlay the things that I've been doing alongside this thing that I really enjoy, which is is helping helping people and in in really helping people perform. And what that led me to was going back to grad school and studying exercise science. And it happened to coincide with the fact that I didn't want to shovel snow anymore. So I packed up and moved to Atlanta.
00:09:01
Speaker
and enrolled in graduate school ah for exercise times. And so began going down that path. And while I was going down that path, I was very lucky, very fortunate to meet a lot of helpful people who put me in a great position to ah not only continue my coaching career, but then also learn and understand the field of strength and conditioning. And so I was getting this, not only this great education, but also this great hands-on experience. So I was able to do both at the same time.
00:09:29
Speaker
learn and apply, learn and apply and repeat that process. And and so it really started to guide me down the path of of this bigger picture idea of how to help people.
00:09:42
Speaker
and and really help them with whatever their goals are, whether it is from an athletics perspective and and all the things that athletes want to do to maximize their performance or just on a m day in and day out basis for the average person. yeah I want to be able to perform my activities at daily living pain free and and give them the the right support so that they can be able to do those things.
00:10:03
Speaker
Yeah, Jason, you mentioned a bit ago about you know the way that people show up at work and when they're distracted by their pain, what it does to their, they obviously their work performance, but their ability to keep their mind on their job and to perform those tasks safely. And that really is the intersection. I um recently, ah for those of you who listen to the podcasts often,
00:10:28
Speaker
um You might recall that one of my most recent guests, Catherine West, was talking about wellness. And she was talking about four pillars of wellness, one of those pillars being physical health. And that's what we're talking about today, in my opinion, is that physical health piece.
00:10:47
Speaker
I want to hear how do you start? Like, where do you start when you are working with, let's say, the utility industry?
Introducing Movement Health to Workplaces
00:10:55
Speaker
I know you work with other industries too, but where do you start in a assessing? Is it an assessment? how do what What does beginning look like?
00:11:05
Speaker
Yeah, great great question, Jill. you know When we we we get ready to launch a program, typically we'll have worked with the key stakeholders to identify you know the groups that we need to start with. we We have an idea, just working with utilities so closely, of some of the risks and some of the challenges that the workforce faces. But we also know that right up front, we want to get buy-in from the individuals themselves. And so we're typically going to kick off with some sort of a workshop. And what's fun about that is,
00:11:34
Speaker
By and large, when we walk into a room, people are not thrilled to be there. It's like, oh, why are we talking about moving health? This is really either going to end the roller and what am I supposed to do with this thing? And you said movement health. Is that the key word I just heard you say?
00:11:48
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, exactly. yeah right Great question. yeah so we And so we're really trying to set the foundation to help people understand how to take care of their muscles and joints. And so part of that is is giving them a massage roller. It's kind of like a little stick that people can use to roll out their muscles. in You know, there's going to be a lot of jokes about that. Hey, maybe I should whack my buddy with it. What do we use this thing for? And you know, for a lot of folks to kind of, they're a little bit cold, you know, not sure what they're about to get themselves into. And so really within the first five minutes, we want to give them an aha moment. So we have been trying to touch their toes and we hear some groans from the room as the floor is about a foot and a half away from, from where the ah roller stops as they try to touch their toes. But then we get into rolling and we start rolling out the muscles and all of a sudden.
00:12:36
Speaker
this light bulb starts to go off and you hear the room. Oh, wow, this feels so good. Oh, man, this this spot is really tight. And there's this camaraderie building as we kind of go through this process together and we start to roll out different areas of the body that are traditionally for a lot of these folks been very tight. And at the end of that, we're going to retest. And what they're going to find is that the floor gets closer.
00:12:59
Speaker
And for a lot of these folks, it's the first time they've tried something and and actually seen a benefit from it. And now we're lapping, we're joking around, we're having a good time. And it really sets a strong foundation for that personal benefit and how this really is something that they can utilize in their day to day to help themselves feel better.
00:13:19
Speaker
That's beautiful. when when people When employers come to you wanting help, do they usually come to you when they maybe have a lot a high propensity for musculoskeletal injuries that they're recording and illnesses? or do come Or do some come to you from a preventative view? Or is it a little bit about how does that work? How do people get to you?
00:13:48
Speaker
When we start to work with companies, Typically, one, when we go in, we know that MSD injuries are going to account some between thirty to fifty percent or elise spring ander andrews somewhere between to 30 to 50% of all their injuries. It's a high number. Commonly, it's going to be the most costly injury that they're going to have. So it's not only the largest injury category, often also the most costly injury category. So they're looking to reduce that number, and and but do it in a way where they're getting out in front of it.
00:14:20
Speaker
Okay. We also, we also know that even if people aren't injured based on statistically just what we've seen in the workforce, there's a high likelihood that they're in pain. And so really what we're trying to do is be out in front of that opportunity for an injury to occur. If pain is really a precursor to injury, we want to be out in front of that and out in front of that in that early action phase by by giving people the right tool so that they can start to address and mitigate that pain and increase the likelihood that we're going to see those injury rates, that lagging indicator drop down as a result.
00:14:58
Speaker
Yeah. And for for our audience, Jason said ah reducing sprains, strains, and MSDs, or musculoskeletal disorders. ah So Jason, when you work with people to give them a framework to take take care of their muscles and joints, do you want to talk a little bit more about that? You just you just gave a really great example of how you like get their attention.
00:15:24
Speaker
um Yeah, what what happens with an engagement? What does it look like? What do you do? Yeah, so we we really want to provide aha moments to give people an experience. and And so yeah, the rolling is a big part of that. We also, you know, it seems a little bit counterintuitive, we actually walk through how breathing can actually help the body feel better. and And, and usually when we start talking about breathing, people are kind of like, what does breathing have to do with feel that feeling better. But the reality is we you know, we breathe, Joe, what do you get? What would you guess? How many times a day do you breathe? Hundreds of thousands. Great guests, great guests about 20,000 times per day. And there is one muscle whose primary job it is to make sure that we get air in the body and it's called the diaphragm. That's right.
00:16:10
Speaker
But if our diaphragm stops doing its job and there are a number of reasons why that could occur, maybe you sit for a long time in static positions and you start to cut off our diaphragm's ability to function normally, we're going to start offloading that job of breathing because it's pretty important onto other muscles, usually our neck and shoulder muscles.
00:16:28
Speaker
And so if you think about the utility worker who's working overhead and they're already stressing their neck and shoulder muscles a lot just from the positions they have to be in. And we're adding to that by having muscles perform a task that they're not really meant to do like breathing 20,000 times per day.
Dynamic Movement and Breathing Techniques
00:16:44
Speaker
We start to stress that area even more. So providing people with the right uh right set of drills and skills one drill that we like to use a lot is called box breathing the navy seals use it quite a bit but it's a great way to reset the diaphragm and retrain the diaphragm on the way it's intended to work and when we do that we start to take some stress off of our neck and shoulder muscles and we provide support and stability to define so it becomes a great way to connect with folks how important breathing is to to their day to day and then
00:17:16
Speaker
focusing on dynamic movement and getting people up and moving around a little bit and and working on when we think about dynamic movement, we're focused on moving all the different mobile joints in the body. So joints like our hips and our ankles and our shoulders and focusing on moving those areas of the body as opposed to static stretching.
00:17:36
Speaker
because the reality is no athletes stretch as their primary means of performing or preparing to perform in about 25 years. What we've learned is that getting those joints ready to move is a much more effective way to increase body temperature, stimulate synovial fluid, which is like water oil for the body, get everything really moving the way that it's intended to move so that when we need to perform and call on the different areas of the body, muscles and joints collectively to perform tasks, they're in a much better position to do that.
00:18:06
Speaker
Beautiful. I love that you talked about diaphragmatic breathing. um I personally teach breath and meditation in my local community and I've had the great advantage of being able to teach diaphragmatic breathing in presentations at conferences this last year as it relates to a method to calm the central nervous system.
00:18:28
Speaker
Yeah, great way to to distress from a situation wrong. Yeah, I mean, and it's it's such an it's such a fun awareness when in front of audiences in the past year, when I asked people to just think about, you know, place your mind on your breath. And they're like, what is this woowooo stuff? And then ask people to place, you know, a hand on where they feel their breath in their body.
00:18:54
Speaker
And often it's the nose or the throat or the upper chest. It's um rarely the diaphragm. in that and and then And then of course you you know you teach the ah how to engage the diaphragm and people are like, oh my.
00:19:09
Speaker
good you know I had no idea oh this feels so good I feel so good oh my gosh I'm so calm and you know it's it's such a it's such a fun it's such a fun thing to do with people yeah and the joint the joints my gosh that's beautiful so you teach when you're engaging with employers are you yeah like I'm guessing you kind of have to start from square one. like People may not have any functional knowledge of anatomy from what a joint is to how joints work to how do you care for them. What does what does that look like? And I'm guessing, Jason, that you teach people how to take care of themselves after an engagement with you.
00:19:53
Speaker
Yeah, and in in really the the idea for for that initial workshop is to just set the foundation for people so that they walk out with a framework for how to take care of their muscles and joints and for some of these other considerations like body positioning or or nutrition, hydration, things like that, but giving them that framework and then continuing to support it after the fact. We're really embedding these concepts into their day, into their company infrastructure so that whenever they show up to work, they're repeatedly exposed to these concepts. One of the biggest pieces of feedback whenever we look at surveys and and we ask people, hey, how did you how' you like this workshop? One of the biggest pieces of feedback from one of our last questions is, hey, make sure you give us time to do this, provide us with an opportunity to do this. And so that next piece is is continuing to reinforce all the things that we discussed by providing the resources and materials so that people can engage.
00:20:48
Speaker
so that people do have those prompts during their day, whether it's pre-work before they start their day, whether it's related to a job task that they're about to perform, but associating things to what's relevant to them and making sure that it really does help step them up to be successful.
00:21:05
Speaker
as they go into their day, but it does start with rooting it in that personal benefit. When you walked out of that yeah workshop, the goal is for you to have felt better than when you started. It even within the first five minutes pe felt better than when you started. And if we're successful there, then that really does set back that positive foundation for folks.
Optimized Body Positioning and Safety
00:21:22
Speaker
how How do you go about teaching optimized body positioning? you know you you were You were talking about some of the activities that utility workers are often doing, but how do you teach them what to pay attention to ah in terms of their own control over their bodies and what they should be looking for? There was a time where read it we'd actually you know we get out there and look you know work with ah with a group in the field. and and walk through some of those things and sort of practically apply it to the environment that they're in. But we also realized that that wasn't very scalable. Unfortunately, the only folks that got the benefit of that conversation were the ones that were there in present that day. And maybe a safety leader who could then share that communication elsewhere.
00:22:08
Speaker
So what we started to do is is look at the specific job tasks and the environment that they're performed in, the people that are performing them, and actually put those those concepts on video and walk through, hey, you're you're going to work from a bucket truck today, and this is the task that's that's that's being performed. Here's the optimized body position for that. And what's cool about that is working with the actual workers and getting their feedback so that we're putting together something that's related. Oftentimes the best solutions come from the people that have been doing the tasks. So they learn through trial and error how to get to an optimized body position that reduces strain. And so
00:22:53
Speaker
hearing their feedback and understanding what they deal with on a day to day basis. So we're not, we're not putting out something that conceptually sounds great, but practically can't be applied. We really want to meet those folks with a rabbit with things that are relevant. And they love that because they see themselves in the work when they see that video. And and now it becomes something that Hey, you know what? This makes sense because the person on screen looks just like me doing a job that I do. And you know what? The suggestion is practical. I can actually realign my spine or my shoulders in in the power zone, stagger my stance, whatever the recommendation is, I can now I can see how I can do that. And I can make that adjustment for the work that I'm going to do. who And what do you
00:23:36
Speaker
How do you talk about when people are, I mean, if you've if you've done work in environmental health and safety for any amount of time, we've all heard some version of, I just need to get that job done. I couldn't take time to wait for help or equipment or whatever, I was trying to save this thing, this thing was falling, the patient was falling, the whatever, whatever, whatever, I needed to do these things. How do you talk with people to, I guess, change behavior for those times that probably happen every day that might be a minor or major emergency, you know, to keep them moving their body and um optimizing that position as you're talking about?
00:24:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's hard, right? I mean, I despite all of my knowledge and and professional experience. just this weekend repairing a fence was in get into unload, right? yeah And it really it really is, you know we we we don't bat a thousand on that, but you where you know where can we sort of an adjust in time sort of mindset, whether it's within a pre-job briefing or whether it's whether it's in another opportunity to connect the the job task to the environment and say, hey, if your shoulder starts to tighten up, just back out of that position for a second.
00:24:55
Speaker
Be mindful of the stress and strain that you're putting on your body if the opportunity arises to switch positions, to back out of that position issue for a moment and reset and then continue whatever you can do to take that half beat.
00:25:10
Speaker
And that's all it needs to be, just that half beat to reset and realign so that you're optimizing your body position for a strenuous task.
Lifestyle Choices and Worker Performance
00:25:19
Speaker
That's going to set you up for success. And so wherever we can we can embed that message and and help put it in the back of folks' mind. And and again, maybe we don't about 1,000, but if we can be 7 out of 10 or 6 out of 10, then those are you we're increasing the likelihood that that message resonates.
00:25:35
Speaker
Yeah, right. and repet And repetition, for sure. I think I work really hard on body positioning just as a head a breathing human being myself with osteoarthritis in a bunch of joints. And something a a physical therapist taught me years ago with getting in and out of my vehicle.
00:25:56
Speaker
And that was to turn my both of my hips, put both feet on the ground and then get out, not the put the one foot and then get out, which, you know, I had a hard lesson to learn as a Minnesotan and you step on a patch of ice and pretty soon you're under your vehicle. And so and so it didn't take much reinforcement to go, oh, turn whole body, set feet down, then stand.
00:26:22
Speaker
you know but But it's hard when we're in a hurry, right? like that case yeah That takes a half beat. that's that's that We have to be intentional about that. When we make that decision that we're going to do that, it's very intentional. and and And that's part of it, too. It's just reinforcing the idea of intent. Hey, when we're going to go we're go to go about this task, whatever it is. Or we're go to even we're going to warm up. And we don't need to spend a long time. But if we do that intently,
00:26:46
Speaker
you know, these small little actions, if we do them consistently in within 10, they add up to tremendous opportunity to reduce the likelihood that we deal with an injury. Yeah, yeah, Jason, you mentioned also um nutrition and hydration. And I bet you'll say something about sleep. But how do you tackle those items with employees? And what are you teaching them?
00:27:13
Speaker
Yeah, it really comes down to providing practical education, typically through video. What we learned, I think, through the course of our evolution in coaching and and and which just more generally the way that adults learn is it's got to be short bits of information, YouTube culture. you know and And so short bits of information. So can we give someone two or three takeaways at the most and and maybe a ah a video that takes 90 seconds?
00:27:40
Speaker
and, but something that's practical. So for example, if we get to, if we're thirsty, we're, we're already about one to 2% dehydrated and that's already, indic and it's already going to be indicative of a cognitive decline that's going to impact our ability to reason well, to perform, et cetera. And so from a hydration perspective, it's, it's making sure that we're,
00:28:08
Speaker
constantly, we we have water available to us. When we're working in hot, humid environments, it's taking breaks to to cool down and ensure that our body has a chance to rest down a little bit, so we're we're getting our internal temperature down. And those it's those little things that if we can consistently impart them into the day,
00:28:27
Speaker
That's going to help that individual individual out from a nutrition standpoint. Most of the folks that we're going to see are going to be on the go. And so what are some practical things that they can be doing? What are some food that travel well, whether we're cutting up fruits and veggies and and other types of proteins that travel well or maybe we're stopping really quick to grab something, want something, you know, reasonable and healthy that we can grab over on the go, but but coming up with solutions for folks and providing those ideas to them so that at least they're thinking about it and at least having the opportunity to, to while they're out there working hard, make the best possible decisions that they can make for themselves.
00:29:08
Speaker
ah In terms of the benefits that employees that you work with take into their home life, what are what do you see or hear from people as success stories? assuming ah I'm making an assumption here that you do.
00:29:23
Speaker
we really want to try to tie this to home and we tired we really want to try to tie home and work together as much as we can because the reality is and and we talk about this in our workshops each one of us you know for me I share a little bit of a personal story but it's about you know having a six-year-old son and the reality is if I'm in pain my cane doesn't just impact me, it impacts my ability to do the things with him that he wants to be able to do, whether it's throw a football, kick a soccer ball, get down on the floor and tackle, you know, whatever those things are, if I'm in pain, it doesn't just impact me, it impacts other people that are important to me and it impacts things that I want to be able to do. And so to your point, Jill, whatever moves the needle for people,
00:30:06
Speaker
We want to open up those avenues and those doors and then be able to do those things as well so that when they go home, you know, if their hobby is fishing, if their desire is to travel, whatever those things are, time with family, we want to make sure that we're opening up those avenues for people. And one of the cool things, one of the things I love is that people take these things home with them. ah Countless stories of, hey, you know what, I took my roller home and my wife stole it.
00:30:31
Speaker
Uh, and so I need to get another one or my son is a hockey player and a lot of the stuff they're doing in hockey is stuff like what you're doing. This is really cool. And I've shared a lot of this stuff with him and, and now we're doing some of this stuff together. And so it's really neat to see when that shared experience that starts at work transitions to home and other people get involved and, and.
00:30:55
Speaker
It starts to become more of ah of a family thing and that camaraderie is built no matter of where you are and that ah shared bond of of, hey, you know what? I feel better and because I feel better, we're able to do all the things that we want to be able to do together.
00:31:08
Speaker
Yeah, beautiful, beautiful. So when it comes to my profession and the profession of the people who are listening, environmental health and safety professionals, um when you are working with companies, are they people with job titles like mine, are they generally co-leading or leading these efforts um
Collaboration and Success Stories in Wellness Programs
00:31:31
Speaker
with you? or ah How does that, for people who are listening and are thinking, gosh, I think I need this in my organization, but is it really my job or how would I start or are there any collaborators? what would you What would you say to them, Jason? Yeah, I think first, safety typically is is commonly where we start because it tends to be the most relatable aspect. I think one of the cool things about safety professionals is that you know they care about their their team members and their workforce.
00:32:01
Speaker
and And so this aligns, in a lot of cases, I was just having this conversation with someone of the other day, but when companies have these initiatives in central that or whether they're those pillars of well being, like I've heard you talk about before, or ah the the concept of caring, when things like this align to that,
00:32:21
Speaker
um It just sort of resonate it resonates with the safety team as a whole, but then also the opportunity to to reduce injury rates and and help people feel better. But there's another group that's really important as well and that's the operations folks because ultimately, if we can help this feel like it's more of an organizational effort. And so that's where leadership comes into play in and make this feel like it's an organizational focus and effort. That's where that likelihood of success and what we see what our most successful companies that we work with, it's it's when operations and safety come together. And this becomes an important aspect of what they do as a as just a day in and day out, hey, this is this is important. And so we're going to focus on it, we're going to build it into our safety culture, we're going to build it into our operations culture. And
00:33:11
Speaker
those two those two groups are co-mingled and they're working hard together. That's where we see it really take off. um And so that's where it's a lot of fun is when you you have an operations leader sitting in on a conversation and going, oh yeah, this is awesome. I gotta i can't wait to get this in front of my team. That's where that's where it's a lot of fun um because you know, to steal an old coaching cliche, the best ability is availability. And so from an operations perspective, if my folks are in pain, they're not as productive. If they're hurt, they're not available. And, and so if we can help
00:33:49
Speaker
I think from a safety perspective, it's really about the well-being of the individuals. From the individual's perspective, and it's about the personal benefit and, hey, what ah what but do I get out of this by um doing this? And from an operations perspective, it's it's all about, hey, how do we help you be more effective at the work that you need to get done? You you talked about success. um Do you want to share, you know, ah anecdotally, a success story or anything about injury rates? Yeah, what does success look like? What have you seen and observed with some of the um ah companies that you work with?
00:34:26
Speaker
Yeah, it's so one of my favorite, one of my favorite experiences ah goes back to actually when I first started ah with Vomosity in 2020, we were launching with a company, it was during COVID, it was in the fall, it was cold outside, there was frost on the ground. And so if you think back to COVID, everything had to be done outdoors, we had to wear masks, we were you know, it social distance. And so we're living at about 10 people. And so we got this group of people. So just imagine that environment, we're on a loading dock, trucks are running. It's not the most conducive environment to try to be the workshop. And then add to that, we had one particularly cranky individual who was telling everybody what a waste of time was worth. And he wanted to make sure everybody knew, including me, what a waste of time this was going to be.
00:35:10
Speaker
And so if we get into the workshop and we start to roll, he's off to the side. He's got a group in front of me. People start rolling. They roll their casts. Oh man, this feels so good. Oh wow, this fuck kind of hurts. And so he's watching that and he's kind of yeah off to the side. Then I see him try the roller a little bit. Then we go into moving and we're we're walking through some different moves and everybody's up and doing stuff and we're joking around and having a good time. And out of the corner of my eye, I see him doing it too.
00:35:36
Speaker
So we're we're we're going through all this together, everybody leaves. And at the end, we ended out a little postcard with some resources that they could follow along with QR code leg and a little, little Hey, here's the moves that we did sort of thing. So in all that stuff out, everybody goes out to do their job. The next day back at the same place leading another workshop, and the same guy who was telling everybody what a waste time it was came back to me, hey, you know what, I lost my postcard, can I have them?
00:36:03
Speaker
oh nice but it's and And so that was really cool. And by and large, that's the experience that we really want to put out there to people. it's it's It's to have them walk away with something that's so valuable that they, in that moment, they feel a personal benefit and they want to continue engaging with it, that they embraced it.
00:36:26
Speaker
at an individual level, and then we partner with the company to scale it and make it available to people on a day in and day out basis. And when those two things come together, when those two Aztecs really are working in unison with one another, what we see on average is a 40% reduction in spring and spring.
00:36:44
Speaker
Wow. And, and what we had people self report back to us through surveying is, is on average 90% say that they've experienced a reduction in pain ah through engaging in, in this approach. So it really does have the potential to be impactful. And then again, you know, going back to something I said earlier, but it's small things, but if we can do them consistently day in and day out,
00:37:11
Speaker
with intent, those small things, it's, you know, 1% better every day, but they add up to a lot in the long run. Yeah, exactly. Beautiful. That's a beautiful story. um In terms of when, you know, what an engagement with an employer looks like, you know, if you're starting out, you know, you we talked about you being a coach and coaching. So if I'm using that analogy, do you feel like you know, maybe you're starting out with the JV team and then do you bring them up to varsity level? Like as in like, do you start at one place and then is there a longer term plan to to even optimize further than that? Or how does how does that work?
00:37:54
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. There's, you know, I think one of the things that we learned about the workforce in general is that there's there's ah there's a bit of a competitive aspect too, right? They're sort of competitive by nature, and or they want to be pushed a little bit, especially when it comes to stuff like this. And so, you know, starting out, you know, hey, foundationally, here are the principles that that, you know, here's where we start.
00:38:17
Speaker
But then here's where we add on. here's ah you know As we think forward, um other elements that we can build into the day that are going to they're going to allow you to level up. And again, keeping it simple, you know it's enabled to be adapted and integrated into the framework that that company has built and into that individual's day.
00:38:38
Speaker
But yeah looking for those opportunities to level up, whether it's certain movements that tie to specific job tasks and making it even more relevant to that individual, or one of the things that we're looking at out of now is more of a strength and activation series.
Human Capacity and Readiness for Physical Tasks
00:38:53
Speaker
ah That's something that people have been clamoring for. And and in thinking about all the different ways that we can continue to to challenge people and and level up a little bit, while also, again, keeping it simple and integratable into just the day-to-day for those individuals. as you're As you're talking and talking about competition, I'm thinking about ah a news story that I heard, I think it was last week in my home state of Minnesota, I think it was Minnesota, um about someone who had an emergency at the top of, I think it was a cell phone tower maybe.
00:39:28
Speaker
And some they needed to do a rescue. And so the person doing the rescue needed to climb you know however 100 feet high in the air that was and successfully did the rescue to get this person down, repel them down. And the interview, as I was listening to this, the person who did the rescuing talked about the physicality of that.
00:39:56
Speaker
and talked about what how difficult that was like it was yes we did the mission yes we got the person down safely but in that interview he was talking about the physicality of doing that climb and and being able to do that and i'm i'm thinking about um you know maybe maybe that person person had the ability of having some kind of training from someone someone like you, but it wasn't lost on me when I saw him on the news. I'm like,
00:40:30
Speaker
Yeah, nobody talks about that piece. Everybody's like, oh, they saved the day. But how were they able to do that with their body? You know, it's funny you mentioned that one of the things that we've really started to see is is this trend toward this concept of capacity. And and you know, I think we see it more when we focused on ah more like on serious injuries and fatalities in the energy wheel. But there's a human capacity element to that too, that I think is encapsulated perfectly.
00:41:00
Speaker
in your story, when you show up to work that day, do you have the capacity as an individual to perform your work safely? Do you have the physical capacity to execute the job tasks? Do you have the stamina and the longevity to be able to go home at the end of the day and feel good enough to be able to come back and and perform that task or those series of tasks again?
00:41:23
Speaker
well and safely. And I love the story about that, because yet this is physically demanding work. And you know there is you know that sort of, whether we we call it workforce resilience, fit for duty, however you want to characterize it, there is that element of physically demanding work. And you know the more we can prepare ourselves for the work that we need to perform, the the greater the likelihood that we go home safe at the end of the day.
00:41:51
Speaker
who And and do you do you see that with the individuals that you work with? like Do they come to you and say, hey, now I can do X, or I was able to do Y, or and you know that kind of thing? Well, even within even within a workshop, it's like, no, man before I came in, you you asking me to touch my toes, there was zero chance I was ever going to be able to do that. But now and now I have more mobility than when I started. Or you know what I can get down on the ground and play with my grandkids now.
00:42:19
Speaker
you know, or, you know, I, you know, it used to be that if I got down on one knee to do something, I needed help to get up. And now I can stand up on my own. I don't you know, I was actually this is pretty funny. So we actually had someone reach out to us via email and say, Hey, thank you so much. You know, um I used to be helped from my husband to get up off the ground. And now I don't so he does it he feels completely useless now because now he doesn't I don't need his help to come over and help me get up off the ground.
00:42:48
Speaker
Awesome. That's awesome. so that's us oh I know we've been talking about the utility industry, but I'm wondering um other industries that you commonly work with. I mean, i I can absolutely see where this is a benefit to every industry, including people who are working in an office setting every day. And I'm thinking about healthcare workers, but to tell us tell the audience a little bit about if they're like, oh, he's Jason's been talking a lot about the utility industry. I'm not in the utilities. What about my industry? What what do you have to say in terms of who you work with? Yeah, we you know, we're very fortunate we work you we work a lot with utilities, but we also work with
00:43:31
Speaker
folks in the maritime industry and manufacturing. And and in some of those environments, it's it's it's really, it's a thankless environment. I mean, there their construction, I mean, they are put to the basis with some really hard, challenging manual work that they're just, it's day after day. And so the opportunity to see and learn what some of the jobs are that are out there that people perform in order to keep the world working and and the ways in which they put their bodies on the line to do that to do that work. it's it's It's pretty amazing to see and that and to to have an opportunity to connect with them, to provide them with something that ah hopefully does help them out is a lot of fun because yeah, whether it's whether it's utilities or maritime manufacturing, construction, something else, um the reality is people are likely dealing with some sort of pain and you know there's a there's a so there's a cascading effect of pain that that we hear about constantly.
Ergonomics in Office Environments
00:44:25
Speaker
a
00:44:26
Speaker
I was thinking about someone that I knew ah long ago that just outside of the things that they do on a day-to-day basis, they hurt their shoulder. And then that led to needing to go medication and and leading to some of the challenges that come with going on medication repetitively, especially the types of medication that become that can become addictive. And so there's this whole other cascading effect of pain that we don't really think about. And if and if we're not really in tune with that, those are the types of injuries that have also become life altering.
00:44:55
Speaker
whether it's a shoulder injury or a back injury. And so really helping those folks have that framework and that way out of pain um is is something that we you know really embrace and and appreciate the opportunity for. it um Fun fact for you, Joe, by the way, you raised the concept of the office. We've done some surveying of of different members of the workforce. The field-based workforce reports roughly about 75 to 80% is saying that they're dealing with some sort of discomfort. Would you guess the office is higher or lower than one? Higher.
00:45:35
Speaker
It is. Yeah. The office comes in, uh, shade over 80%. And yeah, no, no. And, and, a but it and it just, it just reinforces the fact that whether we're using our bodies or we're stuck in static positions of an office, deving the odds are pretty high that as a workforce, as people walking around, we're dealing with some sort of discomfort.
00:45:58
Speaker
when i When I worked in healthcare, care I spent a very large portion of my time doing ergonomic assessments for people who sat at workstations all day or looking in microscopes all day, you know those static static positions were where people were reporting you know ah was a knot, a constant knot in the shoulder, um fingers that are falling asleep, elbow pain, sore necks, all of that. And gosh, did so much education just for that reason. So I wasn't surprised by by your statistic. I showed up at my local clinic a couple of weeks ago.
00:46:39
Speaker
to check in at a reception desk and the receptionist was wearing a brace on her wrist. and i was you know I was looking at her body mechanics and I said, hey, could I offer you a couple of tips?
00:46:54
Speaker
And I said, I see you've got that you know that brace on your wrist. And she's like, yeah, wrist really hurts. And I said, do you also have a knot in your shoulder? Oh yeah, every day. And I said, here, let's just do an experiment. you know And I ah had her bring her keyboard closer to her. I had her raise her chair up so her elbows were at a 90 degree angle. I had her take her mouse out of the north 40 of her desk and had her turn her body toward her monitor. And she's like, oh my you know Oh my God. And I said, just try that out for the rest of the day and see how you feel tonight. Anyway, it's it's it's so rewarding um when you can do those sort of things that you're doing, Jason.
00:47:41
Speaker
Yeah, Jill loved the fact that you you you took advantage of an opportunity to help somebody out and lean into your ergonomic background a little bit and and provide that guidance per ah for that individual. That's that's awesome. if you are if you If you ever want to share any more ergonomic tips, ah were we're always open to ah that side too. so Happy, happy to do it. Happy to do it. It's yeah, it's ah it's a good thing. It's a good thing to do.
Engaging Younger Workers in Wellness
00:48:07
Speaker
um You know, as we as we're getting ready to close out our time today, Jason, I'm thinking about, you know, the sort of grumpy guy in the corner, right?
00:48:22
Speaker
that you were talking about before. When you work with people, especially maybe people who are younger or haven't maybe experienced a lot of pain in their life or any pain in their life and still, you know, have a untouchable because they haven't just personally had the experience.
00:48:44
Speaker
are Are you seeing ah ways to change their hearts and minds as well in terms of like, Hey, I feel good. I don't have any pain yet. I'm young and, you know, agile, you know, what's interesting.
00:48:57
Speaker
the The younger demographic seems to be ah a little bit more split now. I think you definitely have the the group that's, hey, you know what? I'm young. I got this covered. yeah Sometimes they do seem to be a little bit more open to this stuff, too, because they've been, I think, to some degree, some of those folks that might have athletic backgrounds or or they they might have been exposed to some of these concepts. I mean, they may be a little bit more open, but what's interesting And I learned this in talking with ah ah a woman who leads the technical training for ah wind apprenticeship school in Texas. And what she was saying is a lot of this younger generation now
00:49:40
Speaker
They're far more sedentary than generations past. And so as they're coming into the workforce if and they're conditioning to the work, they're actually more prone or or even potentially driving some of the injuries because they're they're not as prepared, not as conditioned to the work. And so as part of her apprenticeship program, she spends a lot of time just working on physical readiness and just helping them get accustomed to the to the work that they're going to be climbing wind towers.
00:50:09
Speaker
And working can find spaces. And so part of her focus is is on helping just get them more physically ready for the work that they need to do because coming in, they're not necessarily ready. So I thought that was interesting because yeah, I think to your point, the The the stereotype, but I think I think it does still ring true is that that younger generation. Hey, you know what? I got this covered. You know, I'm I'm i'm a young gun. I can I'm bulletproof. I can lump your wall. We're going to get this done. Yeah, um but I do. I do wonder and and just as in a had conversations not just for her but with others if we're seeing a shift to the generation now where yeah maybe they're not quite as conditioned to the work as as maybe they once would have been.
00:50:51
Speaker
Makes sense. Makes sense. Jason, this has been so good. I'm wondering if you have any last thoughts to share with our audience or things that you wanted to say that we didn't cover today or how do people you know who are listening are like, how do I get started working with someone like Jason? Maybe I just asked you too many questions at the same time, Jason.
00:51:18
Speaker
Well, you know I think this is solving sprain and strain injuries, MSDs. It's a complex problem. There are a number of factors that contribute to why they might happen in the first place and why they ultimately do.
00:51:36
Speaker
And really, from my perspective, leading into you know are the my coaching roots, but then also just more practically ah what we try to do ah from a solution standpoint is is try to simplify that a little bit.
00:51:52
Speaker
It's not necessarily easy, um but I believe we can simplify the problem a little bit by focusing on movement health, helping people position their bodies for the strenuous tasks that they need to do by helping them optimize their performance in the way they feel through nutrition, hydration, sleep, recovery, all the different factors that drive how we feel. um But if we can do little things consistently day in and day out,
00:52:21
Speaker
ah That's ultimately what can move the needle for us in the long run.
Conclusion: Prioritizing Human Well-being in Safety Practices
00:52:24
Speaker
And so that's where, you know, if we can spend five minutes, five to seven minutes doing something to prepare our bodies to perform, that's a huge win. If we can take that half beat to reposition while we're doing a task, that's a win. If we can make sure that we've got the right fuel for the job that we need to do and we're for giving ourselves some ample time to recover at the end of the day so that we can wake up and do it all over again, ah that's a win.
00:52:47
Speaker
And so when we can do those things consistently, ah that's when not only are we going to maximize performance of the job, but we're going to feel our best at home for the things that we really want to be able to do. Again, time with kids, time of family, activities, hobbies that we have, fishing, hunting, traveling, whatever it is, ah we want to open up the world for people so they can do the things that are most important to them.
00:53:11
Speaker
Hmm. Jason, thank you so much to you and your team for taking care of the American workforce in the way that you're doing. Really appreciate it. And thank you so much for coming on the show today. Jill, it's ah it's an honor to have been on. It's a privilege to be able to work with so many hardworking folks and really appreciate the time today. This was a lot of fun and wish you all the best. Thank you.
00:53:34
Speaker
Yeah, thank you. And thank you all for spending your time listening today. And more importantly, thank you for your contribution toward the common good. May our employees and those we influence know that our profession cares deeply about human well-being, which is the core of our practice. If you're not subscribed and want to hear past and future episodes, you can subscribe in any podcast player that you can find. We're on all of them.
00:53:56
Speaker
Or if you prefer, you can read the transcript to any of the episodes and listen at hsi dot.com. We'd love it if you could leave a rating and review us on iTunes. It really helps us connect the show with more and more health and safety professionals. Special thanks today to Emily Gould, our podcast producer. And until next time, thanks for listening.