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138: Think Inside the Box
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Perry Sylvie, safety manager at BT Construction in Colorado, shares his journey from working at a driving range to becoming a leader in construction safety. He is the founder and chairman of the Trenching and Excavation Safety Task Force (TEST), a volunteer group dedicated to raising awareness about trenching and excavation safety. Perry's career in construction safety began after a layoff from his maintenance job, which led him to work in excavation.
Perry's transition into safety was influenced by his first boss, who encouraged him to leverage his degree and move into office roles, eventually leading to project management and safety coordination. His involvement with industry groups, such as the Construction Safety Round Table and the National Utility Contractors Association, has been pivotal in his career, providing mentorship and collaboration opportunities.
The TEST initiative was sparked by a tragic trench collapse incident in 2019, which motivated Perry to take action and form the task force to prevent similar accidents. The group promotes trench safety through campaigns like "Think Inside the Box" and collaborates with various partners to spread awareness and improve safety practices.
Perry emphasizes the importance of industry groups and safety roundtables for professionals seeking to enhance safety practices in their organizations. He continues to advocate for safety in the construction industry, sharing his experiences and insights at conferences and through the task force's initiatives.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Background
00:00:09
Speaker
This is the Accidental Safety Pro brought to you by HSI. This episode was recorded February 27th, 2026. My name is Jill James, HSI's Chief Safety Officer.
00:00:20
Speaker
My guest today is Perry Sylvie. Perry is Safety Manager at BT Construction in Colorado. He's been a leader in construction safety for over a decade and is deeply involved in advancing safety efforts across the industry.
00:00:34
Speaker
He's also the founder and chairman of the Trenching and Excavation Safety Task Force, otherwise known as TEST, which is a volunteer group focused on raising awareness around trenching and excavation safety.
00:00:48
Speaker
In 2025, Perry was recognized as Safety Professional of the Year by ASSP Colorado Chapter for his contributions toward advancing construction safety. Perry joins us today from Colorado.
00:01:00
Speaker
Welcome to the show. Thanks, Jill. Glad to be here.
Career Journey in Construction Safety
00:01:05
Speaker
Yeah, so Perry, how did you get started in the construction industry? And well, or maybe that's not where you started safety. So how did how did things all get going for you?
00:01:17
Speaker
Kind of a funny story. Yeah, I actually was doing some maintenance work at a and a driving range, miniature golf, and i was actually laid off because ah there was a drought and we weren't able to water and I was in charge of the irrigation on that driving range.
00:01:37
Speaker
Wow. Okay. So that next day i was looking into some work to do and my stepdad is actually in construction. and He's an owner operator of a box creator and he'd been working for a local excavation company in the area. And he said, Hey, why don't you go check out that company? And You know I've been ah digging ditches for irrigation out of the driving range, so I thought, well, I could probably dig ditches for construction. So let's let's give that a try and came to work that very next Monday. and
00:02:12
Speaker
almost history from there.
Importance of Safety Training and Culture
00:02:14
Speaker
Started as a laborer and was able to get in moving dirt and was able to come in and and yeah run ah equipment here you know eventually and kind of go through the process. So that was the that was the beginnings of of my degree or of my excavation world that I that i live in.
00:02:37
Speaker
Yeah, so when you were when you went from excavation for irrigation systems, which is like, that's pretty shallow excavating, right? Am I correct in thinking that way?
00:02:50
Speaker
Yes, yeah. Irrigation is usually a couple few feet deep and yeah you know it's not not too crazy. yeah and then you go into Yeah, and then you go into an excavation company. Was that kind of a shock to the system where you're working with, I'm assuming, bigger equipment?
00:03:07
Speaker
Yes. And there was really no equipment in what I was doing before. So it was all handwork. Oh my gosh. Yeah. out in the driving range and people are hitting golf balls at you.
00:03:19
Speaker
So this really was a shock to the system. It really was a safety nightmare out on that driving range and glad i'm no longer in that that realm.
00:03:30
Speaker
Oh, man. Yeah. So you got to this first construction job. What was what was your role when you first got there? Were you did they train you to be an operator or where did you start?
00:03:42
Speaker
Yeah, I started really at the bottom, just running a shovel and a water hose and just learning how to be a laborer. Didn't really know a whole lot about anything. So it was really, really ground floor, boots on the ground. Like there was really no no real training. It was just like, go to work, you know, go to this job, go to that job. And it was very dirty work. And I was in pretty good shape at the time. And it was, it was good work for me.
00:04:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I, you know, i i I, don't know if I've ever asked this question where people are telling me about their first jobs. But since you jumped right into an industry that is inherently dangerous to many.
00:04:28
Speaker
So what I mean, you said you didn't have any training, but do you recall back then? Was there safety training? I mean, I'm not going to be surprised if you say no, but I'm just curious. Yeah.
00:04:40
Speaker
You know, there was some safety training. We actually had safety meetings once a week.
Transition to Office Role and Mentorship
00:04:45
Speaker
OK. And it was where you come in the office or in the it was actually the shop. yeah And we'd all have chairs set up in there and every employee came in every single Monday and just part of the process. And then I remember going through some training and i think I got my first OSHA 10 right around that same time. and oh wow That was kind of neat to be a part of of something like that that. The company cared enough to get me trained up on something that that could help me. So that was ah was exciting.
00:05:17
Speaker
That sounds really good. And i'm I'm picturing the shop and the chairs kind of in a circle. And the first thing that came to my mind was this is corporate culture building.
00:05:28
Speaker
Yes, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. So how did you get launched into safety from there? but So it was really, had a degree and my supervisor at the time, he was like, so why are you out in the field if you have a degree? And what's your degree in?
00:05:49
Speaker
I said, i have a degree, a liberal arts degree, and I have a degree in music. And he's like, he's like, that's okay. You have a degree, you finished something. So why don't we see if you can come into college?
00:06:04
Speaker
the office and see if you can help us out in the office. So that was actually this first boss that i ever had that that really was amazing. he gave me every opportunity along the way.
00:06:17
Speaker
And he said, hey, let's bring you in and let's help out the estimating department. So I wasn't actually bidding any work. I was just coming in to do takeoffs and quantify dirt materials in different volumes and helping out with a three-dimensional software system and you know being able to quantify things and give that information to the estimators. And did that for four or five years. And really, really enjoyed that work. It was it was great.
00:06:47
Speaker
Got into estimating eventually, started bidding work and and then landed my first job and they said, oh, now you're a project manager. So I'm like, oh, great. Okay. What does that mean? Yeah. Yeah.
00:07:01
Speaker
So I got into project management and then this all happened pretty quick. And then the the downturn happened. So right in January of 09 is when I got laid off.
00:07:12
Speaker
I had been with that company for about six years and they'd really given me all these opportunities and that boss that that really helped me along the way and and really said, hey, let's keep giving you these opportunities.
00:07:24
Speaker
Eventually he had to say, you know, look, the downturns happened and it's just affecting the company too much. And there was about eight of us all at once that got laid off and it was rough. So worked for a few other companies and did some estimating and project management at those other organizations. And Several years later, was able to have that phone call with that same individual, that same boss. And he says, hey, yeah we're we're looking for a safety coordinator. Would you be interested in trying something new like that?
00:07:58
Speaker
And I said, sure. Yeah. yeah And was he that is he the same? Was he still working at the same company that you had worked at at that time?
00:08:09
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. Okay. And so it was kind of like, well, I i already know this company. i already know a lot about this organization. So yeah maybe it would be worth going back there. And since i already know a lot, it's just learning a new role within that that same organization.
Involvement with Safety Groups
00:08:25
Speaker
so Yeah, why not?
00:08:27
Speaker
Just give it a try. And so, you know, he got me right away. He got me into an OSHA 30 and just started really giving me all the training opportunities and really trying to help me and, you know, groom me and try to get get all this kind of training there for me so that I can be able to learn how to be a safety professional, really. And he then it invited me or... or me See if I can explain this, sorry.
00:08:56
Speaker
Yeah, it's okay. So he actually was was the one that said, hey, why don't you go to this industry group round table? He's like, found this round table and it might be good for you to check out.
00:09:10
Speaker
And it turned out to be the Construction Safety Roundtable, the the Construction Safety Group of Denver. And this group is amazing. it's It's a bunch of safety professionals, insurance people. It's just a roundtable group that we're able to talk you know between the group and be able to have. even some therapy sessions really. yeah And it it was back in 2012 when I started attending these and it was right after I got into my new role and just seeing the mentors in that group. And I'm still, you know, talking with these same guys all these years later. it's ah It's a great camaraderie and everybody's willing to help everybody else. Just a, just a great group there. So really, really enjoy being part of the industry groups there.
00:09:58
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really good um shout out for our listeners. If they're like, huh, wonder if I have an
Founding the Safety Task Force
00:10:08
Speaker
industry group in in my area. Yeah, so, and I've been part of i've been part of one too, Perry. um Sometimes they're, I mean, I'm just thinking for the listeners, like, how do they find this? I mean, you can you can try the good old Google, like, you know,
00:10:27
Speaker
safety groups or workplace safety groups. Sometimes they're, especially in non metropolitan areas, sometimes they're stood up by like National Safety Council, like a, like the state or organization might have some of them. do you have any ideas of how people might be able to find them too? Because these do exist.
00:10:49
Speaker
Yeah, good point. I think starting with your local ASSP chapter is is a really good place to start. Yeah. You know, this is actually what this group has turned into now is it's really a group of us from from the couple different chapters here locally in Colorado that they utilize this roundtable. And you know great Great way to then have, again, crosstalk between at least construction safety professionals. But ASSP being what it is, you're going to have all different industries that you'd be able to find the group that would work for you. So definitely would start there and just go to the ASSP website and and you know search for your industry and see if there's any sort of groups that might be willing to take you into...
00:11:36
Speaker
to uh to chat with them yeah your group didn't start out with assp but it but it got you you kind of meld together over the years yes exactly yeah that's that's great yeah thank you thank you for that piece okay so you get the job you you get some mentors did you do you remember what you thought it was walking into it versus what you learned it was or do do you feel like you were kind of clear-eyed You know, going into it, it was it was really it was really interesting because as a project manager, we were expected to to give the safety meeting. and it was just the way our boss had worked. It was his little trick. He's like, oh, you want to go on vacation? Well, if you want to go on vacation, you're going the safety meeting here this this next time it comes around.
00:12:29
Speaker
So, of course, we all had a chance at giving the safety meeting eventually. So, so yeah, we we had at least a little experience with it. And and yeah it definitely helped me understand, you know, when we were giving the safety meeting, we needed to do a little research. We needed to understand what the topic was. Like, okay, the topic this time is cold weather safety. Let's do a little research, put a little PowerPoint together and share that information.
00:12:54
Speaker
with all the employees in that shop with all those folding chairs and help them out. So I had a little bit of experience in doing that. So it was
Campaigns and Partnerships for Safety
00:13:04
Speaker
really not my first time dealing with safety. It was just, you know, having that be my, my main role. That was what was different. And And again, trying to learn how to do that took a little bit of time. And yeah and that industry group, that roundtable group is really where you know i was able to bounce ideas off of people and really try to learn you know what it means to be a safety manager.
00:13:28
Speaker
Yeah. when When you were getting started in this, Who did you learn about like soil classifications and all of that stuff from? Did that come out of your your OSHA 30 or this industry group or had you already like gleaned some of that from your previous time working with the same company?
00:13:49
Speaker
That's a good question. um it It was kind of a combination and yeah and it did start back as a laborer and and yeah you know going through that OSHA 10 class. And then we had some trenching and excavation safety training that was put on by one of the the local vendors. And I talked to to this individual every so often remind him. You know, hey, back 2003, you were my first trainer in excavation safety and look at where we're at now. Wow, that's cool. Yeah, that is great.
00:14:20
Speaker
Yeah, to reminisce on that and and be able to to talk talk through, you know, some of those some of those interesting moments in time. Yeah, you have you have such an ah such an interesting industry that you're working in. And I admire the work that excavators do so much. So thanks for thanks for letting me ask kind of those detailed questions. I appreciate Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So what happens next in your career?
00:14:51
Speaker
So, yeah had worked for that same company again for another five years and just kind of continued to work through some of those you know challenges, working with an organization that that's established and they have a national safety director and, you know, just kind of working through some things. They did end up having some some ownership turnover. And so just the way the leadership turned out, it was like, well, this is not going in the direction that I was hoping it would. And and so at that point, uh, made some, some decisions and it moved on. Um, so work, work for another organization for a little bit. And then, um,
00:15:33
Speaker
I was still going to these industry group meetings, and then I started attending this National Utility Contractors Association. That it was a meeting that we were having that that was once a month, and it turned into this roundtable that really matched that same construction safety group at Denver.
00:15:52
Speaker
group But instead of it being general contractors and insurance people and kind of a high level safety, it it then turned into this, hey, let's have a safety discussion just about underground utilities and excavation. And so we ended up starting that group through NUCCA of Colorado.
00:16:11
Speaker
And that actually became a really good group. We've been doing that ever since. And it's it's been great to be able to have these kind of conversations with people really similar in our roles and have a good crosstalk that way. So ended up meeting who's my current boss at one of those meetings. And it it's just been a great relationship. And so I found this company here, BT, and it's just been amazing to to be a part of this organization. I've been here about six and a half years and just an amazing culture here that I've never experienced before.
00:16:49
Speaker
That's sometimes rare in our industry. So that's wonderful. That's wonderful. I want to i want to shout out for the listeners. um You mentioned the National Utility Contractors Association. And so the industry associations, of which there are many, that is another way for people to get involved. So, you know, you were talking about the community.
00:17:12
Speaker
the construction safety round table is one piece but the the actual association for your industry those exist too so you're talking about about that i've been part of one this is going to sound funny but i worked in the poultry industry for a while and there was an industry group for the poultry industry both chicken and egg and also funny. um I mean, it just sounds funny to say. But and then and then like like with you, it branched off into the national safety for the poultry industry, which was an industry group of all of us doing the same kind of work in the same kind of industry. And so people who are listening, if you're not familiar with industry groups, that's something else you can search for. And within them, there's often a safety element.
00:18:04
Speaker
Yeah, I'm glad you found that. And you found a job that way too. Another good tip.
Reflections on Leadership and Support
00:18:10
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. So I have, I don't know if it's too soon for me to ask you this question in your story, but I'm just going to like put it out there in case it's the right time. i know you wanted to talk about the Matrix movie. Is it is this premature or is this a good time? Okay. No, this is great. So this just a funny story. back Back when I was actually still working at that golf course, it was actually on a Wednesday and it was when that Matrix movie came out. And so I was working with an individual that says, hey, let's go watch this movie on our lunch break.
00:18:48
Speaker
I was like, oh, are you sure? that's Boy, I don't know if we could do that. you know Just kind of breaking the law a little bit at the company. And it was funny because I also worked at a movie theater at the same time. i was working two jobs and the movie theater wouldn't allow me to watch that movie until it had been out for a couple of weeks. So I was like, oh, that's cool. I can watch a movie because this person that I worked with has tickets yeah and just ironic. And so i was like, OK, so let's go go ahead and go watch this movie at lunchtime. And then I get back from this this lunch this lunch movie and my boss at the golf course pulls me in.
00:19:28
Speaker
And this was this was maybe two hours after I get back. And he says, yeah we're going to have to lay you off. And so i was like, at the time, I was like, oh, no, he found out that I was at this movie. no And they're firing me for taking a long lunch break. it Turns out he had no idea that we went on this this movie lunch break. And he's just laying me off because of the drought with the fact that didn't I'm an irrigation guy and they turned the water off because of this drought. So they couldn't really... ah
00:20:00
Speaker
you know, justify keeping me on the payroll. So just an interesting story that I just thought was kind of an ironic thing. And it's like, okay. And now I remember that date because remember when that movie came out. So I know exactly what day I started. And it was a Wednesday, you said. Yes. And so I started that very next Monday. And so it was like, it's like, I know the date. It was like, you know, so May 19th was when I started. It was that Monday. So you back it up and you kind of figure out the what date of the the movie then when it came out. So just a, just a funny story. That is that is funny and ironic. And also you only missed like what, two days of pay before you got your next gig. That's amazing. nice little vacation.
00:20:42
Speaker
yeah And the movie was good. Yeah. Right. You ended, you ended the job on a, on a high note. Playing hooky for a movie. Yes. Oh, that's awesome. Um,
00:20:57
Speaker
Hey, back to BT for a second, where you work now. um I wanted to ask you about working with leadership because you said you haven't worked with the leadership.
00:21:09
Speaker
you know like this it's It's exceptional where you're at right now. So talk with us, with the audience, about what that looks like when safety is is driven from the top.
00:21:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's amazing here. There's there's just a unique unique group here that really, really does believe in safety. And the way that they really stand behind that is they have weekly meetings with us.
00:21:36
Speaker
That's something I've never experienced before. You know, when I was at my other organizations, it was like a real struggle to actually find time to meet with my boss or with the president or anybody in top leadership. You know, i' put something on the calendar, either they would you know, forget about it or whatever. and it was just always a challenge to get in front of them.
00:21:57
Speaker
Whereas here, when I first started here, they were like, yeah, you're going to be meeting with us every week. And it's just on the calendar and it's just part of, of how we do things here.
00:22:07
Speaker
And they, they want to learn. They want to hear from us, you know, what we're seeing. They want to be able to be a part of the process of, of implementing things. And, you know, it's their program ultimately, and we're just there to help them and to support them and,
00:22:23
Speaker
and And be a resource, not only for the top leaders, but a resource for the people in the field. So just an amazing culture where it's it's really them leading the way and and we're just helping them and, and you making sure that the we do our job to to help the team.
00:22:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And when you when you say that safety is a is a resource um and not a burden. do you have any examples that you would like to share about what that what that looks like or acts like tactically for you?
00:22:57
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's great here where where the guys will call us, right? if If they need something, they're calling us. We're like the the support team, the support staff, and you know we're able to then come through for them. If they need something, we're there for them and And that's just not something I've experienced anywhere else. It's usually me you know having to pry into their business and try to figure out what they need. Right. And it's just not the case here. There's just an amazing culture where we we get to be that resource. We get to be the people there to to help them and yeah you know come to their need.
00:23:32
Speaker
How lucky. How lucky. Have you ever asked any of the founders how they happened to make that happen? Yeah. No, that's a great, great question. Yeah, I know, right? It would be. okay okay feel I feel like we should we should get a group of leaders together who just somehow are like that. We could probably crack the code for everybody else.
00:23:55
Speaker
That'd be great. Since it's since it's written about constantly and spoken at every single, um you know, every conference we ever go to is how to get leadership buy
Growth and Collaboration in Safety Efforts
00:24:06
Speaker
in.
00:24:06
Speaker
Yes. And you have it. That's wonderful. Terry, ah perry I mentioned at the at the introduction that you're the founder of a task force called the Trenching and Excavation Safety Task Force.
00:24:23
Speaker
Tell us how that came to be and what it is. Yeah, so there was an unfortunate incident that happened. it was another company that was that was north of us, North Denver area.
00:24:39
Speaker
There was ah two people that had gotten into a 15 foot deep trench and they were down there without any sort of trench protection and 15 foot deep. That's, that's a lot of dirt and dirt collapsed on them.
00:24:54
Speaker
And so fire department came out and one of those individuals was able to talk to the firefighters through a pipe in the ground for a couple hours And they actually got ahold of a significant other and she was able to come out to the project site and talk to him before he passed away.
00:25:15
Speaker
And so that, that incident, that just really, that really bothered me like deep. like and And the other frustration was that they had a trench box on site, but they chose not to use it.
00:25:28
Speaker
So just real heartbreaking there. And then we found out, you know, probably a month or two later, she had their baby. And so...
00:25:41
Speaker
just real sad situation. yeah that This individual perished and he could have been a dad and yeah just this real sad. and it was actually the the very next week after this incident occurred, we were at the AGC of Colorado Safety Council.
00:25:58
Speaker
so and so for people who don't know, AGC is Associated General Contractors. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Keep going. Yep. So we were in that room with about 60 safety professionals or so. So a lot of us in that room and and it had come up about this incident.
00:26:17
Speaker
You know, we we like to talk about, know, incidents, past incidents, you know lessons learned, things that we can be able to, to be able to talk about. you know amongst each other and try to know help each other out. And so this incident came up and we were talking about it. And there was, of course, a lot of frustration in the room and everybody's kind of thinking about, you know, what happened and and how it could be prevented.
00:26:40
Speaker
And then we were about ready to move forward with the meeting. And I said, no, I'm not ready to move forward. So I stood up in that meeting and i said, guys, we got to do something.
00:26:53
Speaker
This is this this type of incident. We can't be seeing this kind of thing reoccur. It's a really unfortunate incident. And I want to do something to to try to prevent something like this from occurring. So i asked the group, I said, who wants to to meet with me after this and you know see what we can do? And there's quite a few of us, you know probably 20 or 30 of us that met in the room next door.
00:27:20
Speaker
We started meeting weekly at first and and then eventually started meeting monthly. And actually we're still meeting now, but we're meeting quarterly and we're still just trying to get some ideas and try to figure out, you know, how can we prevent trench collapse fatalities is is really our main goal.
00:27:39
Speaker
Yeah. So we started the Trenching and Excavation Safety Task Force, also known as TEST. and we almost immediately came up with this website, thinkinsidethebox.info.
00:27:53
Speaker
And it was this, this idea of Think Inside the Box came from our OSHA area director that was part of our group right away. He had this little full two inch sticker and it just had the words on it, think inside the box.
00:28:08
Speaker
And he's like, what do you think of this idea? you know This could be something there that we can be able to help know with an awareness campaign. I said, that's a great idea. So soon after that, we actually found a picture of the trench box and then we put the words think inside the box inside the box.
00:28:26
Speaker
Gosh, beautiful. That actually seemed to be a decent message. and One that's like think inside the trench box, but also we don't need to come up with any new ideas. We don't need to think outside the box. Right. got You know, the right protective system is out there. we just need to do what's already established and do the right thing. So yeah.
00:28:45
Speaker
I think inside the box was just a natural, you know, concept that made sense. So that's what we ended up going with. And yeah we've got social media pages now and we we've got them all the same tag. So if you search for at excavate safe, you'd be able to to find all of our social media pages. We've got a ah really good following on LinkedIn, thousands of followers on
Advancements in Safety Methods
00:29:12
Speaker
there. and you know, great to be able to to communicate to people and, you know, ways to be able to raise awareness and hopefully save lives in the trenches.
00:29:24
Speaker
How, when did you say you started this? That was back in 2019. Yeah. yeah So it was actually April of 2019 when that incident occurred. yeah And just a week later is when we we started that that task force.
00:29:38
Speaker
Fantastic. Fantastic. So who you said you meet um you continue to meet regularly. um you know we You came up with some of these items. What else have you been able to do? um like Do you have partners? Do you speak at play? What other things has the task force done?
00:29:59
Speaker
Yeah, so really partners is where where we've we've had great success. There's organizations that are behind this and have really helped to grow this mission. Our mission is to create industry awareness and drive insight into trenching excavation safety. And we want to collaborate without any organizational or geographic boundaries in an effort to improve day-to-day safety for field workers.
00:30:24
Speaker
So that mission is something that a lot of our partners have been standing behind. And lot of times, you know, these partners are there to to help fund some of this because we don't have any funding. We're we're not a nonprofit or anything. We're just a volunteer group. yeah So we don't really have any money. We don't have any way to to do things.
00:30:46
Speaker
So we've called on certain organizations. Like there was a local insurance company that actually came up with the logo and They spent two people's time for eight hours to help build this logo for us. and We've got all the different versions of the logo now and you know they volunteered their time to be able to help us with that. and Other organizations helped us by promoting things on their websites. And we've been able to speak at some of these organizations and and be able to share trench safety messages, not only in our state of Colorado, but we've now been able to talk specifically In all states, or most states, it's been quite, it's been really amazing to be able to get in front of a group and be able to talk about this and and raise this awareness and and be able to share this message with as many people as we can. Mm hmm. kind of groups do you normally get in front of or does it really vary? Is it sometimes individual companies or sometimes ah heavy equipment companies or association groups? What does that look like?
00:31:59
Speaker
So most of the time it's industry groups. Yeah. so okay AGC and then NUCCA. And then we've we've actually talked with the Colorado Contractors Association, cca And then NAXA, which is the North American Excavation Shoring Association. And then Blue Book. So the Blue Book Network, we actually did a little bit of training with those guys. I'm not familiar with them.
00:32:26
Speaker
So the Blue Book is is actually an organization that have it's ah it's kind of a place where a lot of contractors would go and they they might be able to find training and some other resources through the Blue Book Network.
00:32:39
Speaker
And so we were able to do during COVID, we were able to do some training online. And that was was a great partnership with an individual out of Texas who was able to do bilingual training. And he hooked us up with the Blue Book. And and there was there were some really great things we were able to do there.
00:32:59
Speaker
Wow. We have a lot of wonderful links to be able to put in the show notes for this episode, Perry. Thank you so much for that. I'm i'm i'm taking notes and Emily, our producer who's listening, is probably doing the same thing. So we'll have a lot of resources for listeners.
00:33:17
Speaker
Yeah. What a passion project, Perry. What has it been a lot of fun? Yeah. i mean, I'm just I was amazed listening to rattle off the top of your head the mission statement. Like you've said that a lot.
00:33:31
Speaker
I have. Yeah. It's ah it's part of my vernacular now, for sure. Yeah. So is your um is the task force made up of a like a steering committee now or do you do you bring new people in or how does what does that look like? How do you keep something like this alive?
00:33:50
Speaker
but That's a great question. so it's really been it's really been my passion. And then I continue to to kind of pluck people out of, of you know, the area where I see them. And so I'll i'll invite them in to be a volunteer and help us. So there's been a couple individuals that I would consider subject matter experts that are online a lot. so I see what they're posting and i'm I'm kind of engaging with them a little bit, engaging with audience.
00:34:25
Speaker
our LinkedIn pages and and some of the, some of the think inside the box groups. And, and then I'll invite them and I'll ask them, Hey, would you be interested in helping us out and being a volunteer in this mission that we have? And, uh, it's been, been great to see some of these people step up and some of these guys that have been doing this for a really long time or are then kind of pivoting and helping us in in their unique ways. And,
00:34:53
Speaker
been great to be able to get their help. And, you know, one individual is, is ah amazing. he's He's on there all the time, posting things and commenting things. And then he started commenting using our page. So i gave him admin access to our page so that he's basically doing all the same things just through our page. And he gets further reach with that because we've got thousands of followers that are seeing what he posts. So it's, it's been good to get, you know, more engagement on the online side of things.
00:35:21
Speaker
Wow. It sounds like you, um you know, in terms of getting people to be part of the task force, it's not when you're, you say you're noticing people and inviting them in, you're doing exactly what that first boss did for you. You're paying it forward. Definitely. That's a good way to put it. hadn't thought of it that way, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's really beautiful. What a great passion. um You know, the I don't i I don't know the answer to this. And I'm going to ask I'm going to ask you the.
00:35:54
Speaker
You know, you had said we don't need to think outside the box because everything you know, like we know what we need to do to keep people safe in this industry.
Ongoing Efforts to Enhance Safety Practices
00:36:03
Speaker
And I wanted to ask, are in the ten you know in your tenure in the excavation and trenching industry, have there been any new um new safety methods to be used or deployed or equipment? Has there been any evolution that you've seen that's just different that people might not know about?
00:36:26
Speaker
Yeah, there's definitely been some advancement. There's there's a newer organization that is starting to become a little more mainstream. And just it's... ah you know, being able to see some new advancement on on trench safety tools and equipment, it's great to see that. And and there's ah an organization and there that's definitely an organization that's that's been interesting to see some of the advancement that they've been doing and They've got boxes that have a newer way to put together. They've got some safer ways to to get in and out of the the trenches and some interesting things that just haven't really been been out there. And so it's a neat to see advancement. There's other organizations too. Just interesting to to see some new styles and and new techniques and things that are
00:37:23
Speaker
that are able to be utilized. And, you know, that there's a you know still the the original trench box that that was something that that was designed and built 30, 40 years ago that still works.
00:37:38
Speaker
And I think that's, even though there's some newer things out there, it's still a trench box. It still works. It's a steel structure that has spreaders that attach them together And, you know, even there's aluminum boxes, but it's all still devices that work. And if we just remember to use them, remember to be inside of them when we are in a trench, then the trench won't collapse on us. And I think i think just the the concept is, think inside the box, it's just, it's universal and contractors stand behind it.
00:38:12
Speaker
And the vendors stand behind it and engineers. And it's it's it's really a universal concept. And even the logo is something that is universal. It's it's a rust colored logo. and it's And it's intentional because all steel trench boxes, eventually they turn that color, right? They might have started...
00:38:33
Speaker
with all the different colors of the rainbow that all these vendors have. yeah But eventually they all turn that same color. So really that was intentional color that we chose for that logo because of that universal concept. Yeah, I can see it in my head right now. I mean, I can see.
00:38:51
Speaker
Yeah, of I've done ah ah plenty of inspections as an OSHA investigator and with trenching and excavating contractors. And then just, you know, once you see a trench box, you notice them every time you go anywhere where there's construction activity.
00:39:08
Speaker
And that's the color you see. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. You know, um, maybe someone who's working in the industry in the same industry who's trying to you know, figure out their path and how to advance the safety in their organization. You've given really great resources, Perry. And I'm, I'm wondering maybe you and I can think of some of the ways that you've advanced practices in your career. Like, you know, I'm, I'm personally thinking about people who've said to me, we're just going to be down there for a minute.
00:39:49
Speaker
I just, you know, we got to just make this one connection. I'll be right back out again. Yeah, I bet you've ah heard that or heard stories about those kind of things in your career.
00:40:03
Speaker
Yeah, that's definitely a challenge that we run into. and And this business is linear and you got to put a pipe together and you got to lay the next pipe and you got to keep going in a linear type of a method. And so it tends to be something where production is king.
00:40:23
Speaker
And so there's a lot of that pressure production. efficiency and making sure this stuff gets done in a timely manner. So if it takes time to install a trench box, well, that time could be utilized, putting pipe together and making more money. So there's, there's definitely that, that challenge and, and that, that,
00:40:44
Speaker
you know, concept of having to, you know, think about production and and try to remember to to think of safety as well. And sometimes safety takes the back seat. And so, you know, for us, that can be a challenge at times. And you don't have to remember that, that no, we have to do it right. and We don't have that challenge at this company. Right. But we think about some of these smaller organizations. And I think that's exactly the That's the challenge that that you know our task force is continuing to to really work on is how do we get in touch with those smaller organizations? How can we have those small organizations listen to this podcast and and be a part of these industry groups and start to get plugged in in the safety realm? and and
00:41:29
Speaker
That's really a challenge for us. so and That would be how how can we find the the place for those two men in a backhoe to you know try to save their lives. Right.
00:41:42
Speaker
Right. And that, yeah, of the collapses that that I've investigated in my career, that's almost exclusively what they all were. The two men in a backhoe, as you as you put it. Yeah.
00:41:55
Speaker
Yeah. Wow. um Perry, what else do you want to talk about with regard to the task force and or anything in the industry?
00:42:08
Speaker
It's not often i have ah I have a subject matter expert that's this specific. I really appreciate you being here. Yeah. Yeah, I appreciate you having me here. This is great.
00:42:18
Speaker
You know, this this task force has been ah pretty big passion of mine and and one that that we're continuing to to try to find creative ways to bring this message to as many people as we can. you know we've We've been talking at different places around the country and and being able to to address this at a you know different level. you know One of the talks I did for the ASSP, the the large PDC, yeah Professional Development Conference, was was actually how to start a task force, how to grow the task force and how to maintain a task force. And and so it was great to be able to share some of that and and really bring it to more of a level of
00:43:07
Speaker
it's not necessarily trenching excavation we're going to talk about. It's more the method of, of how to build something, how to build this group of volunteers. yeah And, and so it was an interesting concept to, to be able to share some of our successes in this, this group that we've, we've built. So, you know, we're not done yet. And I, I don't know, i hope someday we, we come to a place where we can hang our hat and go, and We've done a great job, but I think we're just going to continue you know driving this grassroots effort as much as we can and help as many people as we can try to try to do it right.
00:43:47
Speaker
Yeah. do you Do you know if you're speaking at any conferences in 2026? yeah.
00:43:54
Speaker
oh So I did not get accepted to speak at the ASSP 2026. I'm bummed about that. I had two different talks that I submitted. So I'm not speaking at that. I had, I had, I submitted two as well, got accepted for one, but not the other. So we're in good company, Perry. It happened anyway, let listeners, it happens, you know, you submit for these things and it is pretty rigorous and we don't all get in.
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:44:18
Speaker
Yeah. It is. Yes. Yeah.
00:44:20
Speaker
I have been asked to speak at one conference. So there's a, there's a conference for firefighters actually. And it's, it's a technical rescue conference up in mid state New York. I spoke there last year and that was good. and And they invited me to come back. So I may, let me take them up on that one. It's an interesting group, right? It's, it's rescuers and it's, yeah it's a group that's actually got a trench. Yeah. rescue track that they go through and and learn how to how to do those technical rescues and trenches so interesting way to to uh to kind of bring the test message into that conference so yeah um you know we'll see how that goes again yeah to come at it from from that angle and and their safety um doing the rescue yeah interesting exactly mm-hmm that's fabulous
00:45:14
Speaker
Well, Perry, this has been so great. And I'm looking at i'm looking at notes I've taken while we've been while we've been talking. and um you know, for listeners who are maybe starting their career or maybe changing industries that they're working in, you know, the reminder that wherever you are geographically to see if you happen to have like a safety round table, like you're talking about Perry, I think that's, I think that's a fabulous tip being part of an industry group for your industry and trying to see if there is
00:45:52
Speaker
An EHS element to it, i think is fantastic. You talked about the AGC, the Associated General Contractors. That's all over the nation as well. And many chapters and a great, great, they put on great conferences.
00:46:10
Speaker
Yes. I've spoken at some of those. They're wonderful too. And I hit i think that my favorite thing you said help was I stood up.
00:46:24
Speaker
Yes, i I really had to to you know take a stand, if you will. Yeah. Because this whole concept just it didn't sit well with me. So I needed to stand up and I needed to do something and take action. And I think that's really what that was is is to really stand up, take action and bring people with me.
00:46:44
Speaker
yeah So that's that's really what what I've been doing this whole time. And and I don't want to give up. It's it's important enough that yeah we need to to to find these these new ideas and and see who can help us to really bring this um, bring this to light and, and save lives. So, you know maybe there's a task force, you know, for those of you listening on here that you want to start and you're, you're frustrated by something and you want to see whatever that is, you want to see that change and you want to, to be a part of that change or you want to lead that change.
00:47:18
Speaker
And, uh, You know, some people don't like the word change. For us, we don't like the word change. We use the word enhancement because we know that there's ways that we can enhance what we're doing and maybe still make make some some improvements. So really important. And again, if you've got something in your mind that you're thinking about you're like, I'm ah i' frustrated by this, i want to do something, I want to stand up, then stand up.
00:47:43
Speaker
And you never know who's going to help you and who's going to follow you. Beautiful. Beautiful. What a great way to end, Perry. That's fabulous. And we all have that power within us.
00:47:55
Speaker
Yeah. Thank you for what you're doing. Thanks, Jill. Yeah. Thanks for being on the show. And thank you all for spending your time listening today. And more importantly, thank you for your contribution toward the common good. May our employees and those we influence know that our profession cares deeply about human well-being, which is the core of our practice. If you aren't subscribed and want to hear past and future episodes, you can subscribe in iTunes, the Apple Podcast app, or any other podcast player you'd like.
00:48:23
Speaker
Or if you prefer, you can read the transcript and listen at hsi.com. We'd really love it if you could leave a rating and review us on iTunes. It really helps us connect the show with more and more health and safety professionals like Perry and I. Special thanks to Emily Gould, our podcast producer. And until next time, thanks for listening.