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130: What's My Hook?
240 Plays2 days ago
Initially aspiring to be a hip-hop music producer, PJ Gillam instead found his career in EHS through early experiences working in chemical and laboratory safety roles. With the encouragement of mentors, PJ continued down the path of EHS and transitioned to a leadership position in manufacturing, adapting as a one-person safety team and creating the "Safety After Dark" program for night shift workers. He advocates for using AI and data analytics to enhance safety and encourages EHS professionals to “find their hook,” have conviction, and adopt new technologies. PJ stresses the importance of relationships, empathy, and prioritizing the well-being of others while sharing insights on overcoming challenges and making a meaningful impact in the safety field.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
00:00:09
Speaker
This is the Accidental Safety Pro brought to you by HSI. This episode is recorded May 16th, 2025. My name is Jill James, HSI's Chief Safety Officer. And today our guest is PJ Gillum.
00:00:22
Speaker
PJ is an environmental health and safety leader with over 20 years of experience shaping safety, compliance, and culture across academic, government, nonprofit, and industrial sectors.
00:00:34
Speaker
PJ leads yeah EHS operations at Paul Corporation in Baltimore, blending technical expertise with people-centered strategy to drive clarity, connection, and long-term impact.
00:00:46
Speaker
PJ has his CSP and and MBA. PJ joins us today from Maryland. Welcome to the show. Thank you, Jill. I'm excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me on. I really just appreciate it I love having this conversation with you.
Unexpected Journey into EHS
00:01:04
Speaker
as As I was, you know, reading your introduction, I'm like, have I had a guest from Maryland before? I'm not sure i have to get out my map again and check. When we first started the podcast seven years ago, I literally had printed ah map of the United States. And then I would put little hash marks in the states where I had guests.
00:01:23
Speaker
Because my my goal has always been guest from every state. But then we went... international. And so I did not print, ah I did not print a map of the world, but it's been, it's, but you're here now. i mean, yeah, i mean you know I'm here now and you're representing Maryland. It's wonderful.
00:01:43
Speaker
fun I love that. I appreciate that. Yeah. We're doing some great things in Maryland, but I appreciate you and all that. I've heard so many great things about you from even my other colleagues. When I i share with them, I'm like, I'm going to get to talk to Jill. They're like, Oh my gosh, she's the goat.
00:02:00
Speaker
Well, those are those are words of high praise. i mean, I know the Accidental Safety Pro is one of the very first ah safety podcasts out there, and I'm happy to say we're still we're still at it seven years later, honoring the stories of of all health and safety professionals, including now you.
00:02:19
Speaker
So how is it, PJ, that you came into this EHS world? So that's a wonderful, wonderful question. And I will say like i came in pull who ah screaming, crat scratching, crawling. i was like, dude, what? Why am I doing this? The reason why I say that is because, Jill...
00:02:45
Speaker
um My dream at the time, just like when I got out of college, I went to Morgan State here in Baltimore, um Maryland, and i went for and electrical engineering.
00:02:57
Speaker
Well, that was short lived. ah i got That's a lot of physics, man. A lot of physics. didn't I did not make it through calculus. ah ah tried I tried and I tried. I went to pre-calc, came back, and I still did not make it.
00:03:13
Speaker
But one winter, um a good, very good friend of mine, he came by the house and and we grew
Music Passion and Career Shift
00:03:20
Speaker
up together. And he's like, hey, man, I got this beat machine.
00:03:24
Speaker
And I was like, what? And it's this little boss DR5. If you put your inner your mind and you hold your hands together like maybe... four to five inches across and it has all these little pads on it.
00:03:36
Speaker
And so he's a musician. he's He used to sing and he's like, yeah, you can make music on this. And Jill, I just lit up. I was like, we can make money doing this.
00:03:48
Speaker
yeah As a young person, that is the ultimate goal, right? Got to pay the rent. Yeah, exactly. So I went on a venture to become a hip hop producer with my brothers.
00:04:01
Speaker
And that was the dream. This is definitely a podcast first. I love this. I love this hip hop producer. I love it. I love it. I love it. and you know I'm from Minnesota, which is the land of Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.
00:04:16
Speaker
Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Oh, love, love them. Beautiful, wonderful music. Love um Purple Rain. Now, I will say this. Yes. When I watch the movie now, it does not have the same nostalgia, except for the music. The music is awesome.
00:04:32
Speaker
But the, you know, the words, the script, it is horrible. Yeah. you know the words the the the the the script it is it is it is horrible But I still love it. I will i still watch it. i was I was at Paisley Park a couple of weeks ago.
00:04:50
Speaker
um Prince's estate, which is in Minnesota. And you're right. they were It's the... ah Gosh, I don't know. Is it the... 30 40th anniversary or something like that yeah because i think it was like 85 86 yeah and so they were they were bringing out things that the public had never seen before from back then and you know those were the things that i was seeing with my eyes at that time was coming up at that time
First Steps in Safety
00:05:15
Speaker
So, wow. Never thought we'd take a little Prince or hip hop diversion. and But so you you have the beat thing.
00:05:23
Speaker
Yeah, I have this beat machine. yeah and And so me and my brothers, we start making music and, you know, wearing I'm in college and i'm I'm in college, but I'm not, quote unquote, in college.
00:05:35
Speaker
OK, OK. Like I'm going to school, but I'm not going to any of the classes because I'm so fascinated with making all these. But I also know from my upbringing, and I have to say this, just shout out to my mom, um because it was just Mother's Day.
00:05:48
Speaker
She had a very strong work ethic. And so regardless of any dream, you know, she instilled in us to make sure that we, you know, had to steady income, that we had a great work ethic, that we showed up.
00:05:59
Speaker
and And so I had this opportunity to work together. on on the installation, army installation, ah be a part of one of the first programs in the United States where we were destroying chemical munitions.
00:06:13
Speaker
Interesting. Right. Yeah. So it was all the mustard agent e that was in and and and around the country. And so we were had this neutralization facility here in Aberdeen Proving Ground, where i where I actually live in Aberdeen.
00:06:28
Speaker
Wow. Did you tell your mom that was the work that you were doing? Just check. Just want to check. just my my my mom My mom-ness just got a little Twitter-pated on that one. Okay.
00:06:40
Speaker
she Well, no, actually, it was a friend of hers that had connected me to the opportunity. So, yeah, because she was working on the proving ground at the time as a contracts manager. Gotcha. Okay. Okay.
00:06:54
Speaker
And so I went for the interview. Now, all they asked for was for some college work, which I did have. ah and and And I took that. And that's what first introduced me to safety.
00:07:08
Speaker
I would say, quote unquote, you know, hazardous ways, emergency response, lockout, tag out, doing toxic area entries. And I use a lot of movie references. So.
00:07:19
Speaker
Wonderful. So it was the first time I got into a a level A suit, which i always ascribe to um e t Yeah, ah right. Yes. Got it. Okay. Thanks for the picture. It's there. yeah Yeah. So we were getting the level ASUS with the airline hose into the toxic areas. And so that was that was my first introduction officially into you know safety protocols, you know programs and things as an operator.
00:07:47
Speaker
And then that actual program was ending because we we and we finished the project. Mm-hmm. But I still had this aspiration to be, you know, a producer, but I still may have to make sure I had a good job i at this very time.
00:08:02
Speaker
And that's when I applied for a chemical safety technician at the National Institute of Aging down in Baltimore. Yeah. And that was my first official job in which I did that.
00:08:18
Speaker
i was there for nine years at that laboratory. Wow. And, and so what were they, i'm i'm guessing because of the type of installation it was, they were giving you training where, where kind of lights going on in your mind? Like, I'm sort of digging this or was it more like, I just need to pay the rent and I'm going to do this.
00:08:39
Speaker
It was the latter. i knew um i i had no idea. I mean, I was getting the information. i was implementing it, you know, all of the the things and and doing what was required as far as, you know, say, I remember we like we we did the when we had to wear our issued. um Well, we were issued, you know, masks.
00:09:01
Speaker
yeah So we had to make sure that we were clean shaven and, you know, do the qualitative and quantitative testing and all of these things. So it's like slowly but surely getting into my subconscious. But I don't I'm not paying attention to really like, OK, how is this going to be beneficial later? Because I'm not going to need this when I'm making, you know, multimillion you know records. Right. but And going into the Grammys. Who's going to work?
00:09:26
Speaker
don't need worry about all that. However, ah it did become very important when I saw the opportunity um and then went to that, you know, into that role in
Mentorship and Professional Growth
00:09:38
Speaker
particular. And I really appreciate it because my first manager, um she was phenomenal.
00:09:45
Speaker
um Jane Clark. I just have to shout her out. She's my goal. Yay, Jane. Okay. Yeah. ah she she She was phenomenal. and And she gave me an opportunity, which was, you know, for me,
00:09:57
Speaker
Such a blessing, such a huge you know favor over my life because I had no idea what I was stepping into. And a really interesting story with that.
00:10:08
Speaker
So I go into the interview and so Jane sits me down and we're talking. And there's this like machine, just the picture in your mind. There's this machine to the left. It's like white and blue.
00:10:22
Speaker
And I have no idea what it is, Jill. I'm just, so she says, well, would you mind turning that machine on? This is part of the interview. Like she's interviewing me. She's asking me questions. I don't remember. That's 20 plus years ago. But she's, but she says, can you turn this machine on?
00:10:38
Speaker
I'm like, internally, I'm freaking out. I've never seen this machine. What is this going to do? so What is this going to do? Why am I doing this? What's going to happen?
00:10:49
Speaker
So I walk over to it um and there's like a box on top. And I said, oh, can I move this? And she's like, sure. And I move it. Now I'm just standing there for like a good two, it feels like three hours, but it's probably like two minutes.
00:11:04
Speaker
And I'm like, okay. I'm like, PJ, you better figure out how to turn this thing on or you're not going to this job. Uh-huh. So I'm like, well, what do you know? What do you know? I'm like, well, everything has an on button.
00:11:16
Speaker
I said, but don't do that. Cause that just seems like weird. If you just like scrambling around, like trying to figure out how to turn it on. I was like, and you know, for most guys, right. We're like the first ones like, you know, historically they'll say, Oh, you never look at the instructions. Exactly. That's what I'm thinking right now. I'm like, this man is not asking for the map or the directions. Okay. Okay. All right. Good on you for knowing that. All right. Yeah.
00:11:39
Speaker
I think I heard that in my head. You're from your mom. okay So I pick up the instructions and I look at it. Now I just glance at it. I honestly did not read a thing on there.
00:11:52
Speaker
I just glance, but I'm like, at least I could show like, okay, I'm looking at it. but ah So I, I find the button on the back, like just like out of sheer sheer luck.
00:12:05
Speaker
and I turn it on and she's like, okay, you can turn it off. That was it. So I leave. I'm like, okay, well, all right. Well, did I get it? A week later or so, you know, I get the call. She says, she lets me know i get the job. And I'm like, yes. I'm like so elated and super excited.
00:12:24
Speaker
Well, maybe like a month, two months go by. And she sits me down. And this is like when I first, like, she starts to teach me, like, not only... about safety, but how to be professional in that setting, in that environment, how to show up to meetings, how to be prepared, how to be organized.
00:12:43
Speaker
And she said to me, PJ, do you know why hired you? And i was like, honestly, Jane, I don't know. Cause it didn't make any sense to me. but I had no experience really, um except for what I did as an operator.
00:12:57
Speaker
Yeah. She said, you remember that machine? And I was like, yeah. She said, you know, out of all the people that interviewed, you were the only person to ask if they could remove that box. e And that showed me that the level of character that you had, was something that you didn't know about.
00:13:15
Speaker
You were just least had to respect to say, hey, can I move this to the side?
00:13:20
Speaker
That is beautiful. Did you ever find out what the machine did? Like, what was it? It was a label printer. ah So nothing dangerous was going to happen.
00:13:32
Speaker
Oh, my gosh. Nothing dangerous. That's hilarious. It was so wild. But i like like I said, appreciated so much of what she taught me um about just being, you know like i said, a professional, yeah i'm showing up, you know safety,
00:13:49
Speaker
ah She still just to give you a vision, like, you know, she's about maybe five to red hair, but man, she was so fiery. And and and so she was adamant about protecting the people.
00:14:03
Speaker
Yeah. and And yeah, it's a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful experience. When she was coaching you on like how to show up for meetings or, you know, like how to be a professional. Do you remember like something that stuck?
00:14:16
Speaker
Yeah. I would say the lesson that I got was conviction. Ah. Yeah. She was very, she had a very strong conviction about what she what she knew in the process or the procedure, like where she wanted to go with um those procedures, those programs. Mm-hmm.
00:14:36
Speaker
And being adamant about sticking to that. Not in a brash, like, um you know, I'm going to do anything to get off get by, but the conviction of like, your voice my voice matters in this space, and it needs to be heard.
00:14:50
Speaker
And that has been carried. that that That particular part of it carried me. and She did not back down even because, i you know, i think at that time, and it can but and um you might have experienced this, and most times when you're in those environments,
00:15:05
Speaker
When you're talking about safety protocols and and projects and plans and things like that, it can it can seem like, oh, we're trying to stifle yes the progress of a situation. And you're like, no, I'm not trying to stifle. I'm really trying to enhance it.
00:15:20
Speaker
But and I want I want to align with you in this. And so I want to you know, you did have these considerations um about, you know, whatever the situation may be like, OK, have you considered how we're going to eliminate this or what substitutions are out there? What other advancements? like So she was very adamant about presenting those things. And if it's like, OK, we need like a third party vendor or whoever to come in and, you know, help us understand something deeper. She was very, you know,
00:15:49
Speaker
resourceful in those ways to make sure that those things were considered whether whether people wanted to hear it or not right i mean and what a great message for our listening audience that you belong here and you have a voice yeah yeah like that conviction that's wonderful so what happened with that job uh what what what was it what do you want to share about that job how long were you there Yeah, so I was there, like I said, for nine
Implementing Global Harmonization
00:16:14
Speaker
years. um I was just getting my getting my feet wet, understanding. That was right when, if you remember the global global harmonization system? was Oh, yeah. um yeah
00:16:25
Speaker
So that was the first time that I really got my training boots on where I, she, she, she let, she allowed me to lead that effort throughout the the um site and, you know, learn, understand what GHS was with the program, get it implemented and roll it out. And so I was able to, you know, um do that effectively and make sure, I think we were probably one of the first um installations to actually have fully everybody fully trained when it was first established.
00:16:57
Speaker
um and And that was a big deal. ah Very big. yeah We had over like, man, because I was a part of, i was leading our chemical management system too, our chemical inventory.
00:17:10
Speaker
you And that was a huge undertaking. You're talking about, I mean, and art't you know for us, I think it was like maybe 5,000 to 6,000 chemicals. Wow. And things were so outdated. Wow.
00:17:23
Speaker
Stuff was in there from like the 1960s, 70s. And and and and um ah I love my researchers, but stop holding on to that stuff. Like, let it go. It's like let's take the Disney seal song. Just let it go. Just drop it.
00:17:37
Speaker
and they want to hold on it they're like no i think i could use it like in three years i'm like for what for what it's like your val the validation of your research isn't going to show up in that this give it give it to me it's okay it's okay i'll take care of it so those are two like big you know um programs and and and that we ran there. And and again, um if you can't tell, I love having fun where I'm at too. It's about building the relationships.
00:18:06
Speaker
And so that's always been ah big part of it. Even when you do have your disagreements, I've had, you know, my share of the safety woes that we all get when they see us. And one of the big things that I don't, I particularly am adverse to is being considered a safety police.
00:18:26
Speaker
um i'm not I'm not a fan of that. I'm not there to to to show some badge. I don't have any badges. but Right, right, right. it's ah it's a It's a wearying trope and um a stereotype that so many that don't understand our profession just sort of automatically box us into. And I'm like, no, no, no, no no that's not it ah Exactly. yeah And i I got wind of that, you know, and and and you and you were your first and the in the career and i hopefully some some folks that are just like fresh in, that can be a very intimidating and get and put a ah certain taste in your mouth about what it is that you who you are in this field and and what people, how they perceive you, right? It's a perception is reality.
00:19:11
Speaker
And so I just encourage um folks at at that early stage um really get wrapped in your mind. It's like, okay, how can I add value? How can I invest in people? How can I get to understand where they are coming from? Because everybody has their own side of the beach ball, like my wife says.
00:19:27
Speaker
And so get an understanding of that and start to have those conversations. That's something that's just always resonated with me as opposed to um what I have experienced with some folks. And it's just like the...
00:19:40
Speaker
the that sense of, Hey, um you're coming in here to shut me down, stop me. And, and already with that kind of energy, yeah um it stifles any possibility for like connection but and seeing how we can really get to some corrective actions, some, some, some improvements. And I'm a big about winning. I like, I tell people at the job now I'm about Superbowls.
00:20:07
Speaker
So what what does that look like for us right now in this season? And so let's figure that out. Yeah, we want the ring. Yeah. Yes. So, you know, your passion for people, did that, how did that grow for you? And did it start growing when you were in that first job? Or was it the next place that you went?
Building Connections and Influence
00:20:28
Speaker
So the passion for people has always been with me. Yeah. um I just say it just kind of comes out in this in my workspace. But I mean, i um was born.
00:20:40
Speaker
i was the only child at first, um which ah it sounds like, you know, most times you're like, oh, only child children, you know, but I wanted people to be around me i didn't have anything to I grew up in San Diego, California.
00:20:53
Speaker
um So I, I genuinely wanted to be around other people, um wanted to, you know, let them play with my toys, play Nintendo, whatever that was. And so even in other spaces, I'm a natural, like my natural tendency is to serve as the help is to see how I can support. That's where I lean to. If you, and I'm sure you might've heard of the disc assessment. So I'm a high X.
00:21:16
Speaker
So and that's my, that my behavior style is to, to, to drawn towards that. And so when I'm in these spaces, like when I moved into working at Hopkins, I worked at Johns Hopkins for a bit.
00:21:31
Speaker
That was wonderful. Cause now I was with young minds and, and it was good because now I could help them kind of like shape myself. where they wanted to go into those professional spaces.
00:21:45
Speaker
Yeah. and And one of the interesting things that I would do during my trainings, and I get weird, like Brandy, like I love all those things. like about you Because again, I'm bringing my hip-hop producer ah acumen into into safety.
00:22:02
Speaker
Wonderful. And so one of the things that I always... do or think about is like, okay, what's the rhythm here? When I go into a space, like what's the rhythm?
00:22:13
Speaker
what what And then I think about, because this is important with music, what's going to be my hook for this space? And so at Hopkins, one of the things that was my hook was when i never did ah whenever I did one of my laboratory safety trainings,
00:22:31
Speaker
I found out this interesting um history about Mr. Hopkins. And so most people may or may not know ah Johns Hopkins. i mean there's ah And that's at the end of Johns.
00:22:43
Speaker
um He was never a doctor. he didn't do it. He was a he was an entrepreneur. He was a businessman. Actually, his first business was um selling whiskey. I did not know that.
00:22:55
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. So he, he was selling whiskey with his brothers and then he went on to get into the railroad business and other entrepreneurial efforts. And so when, before he passed, he, and you know, did his endowments to two things. One was the hospital, Johns Hopkins hospital.
00:23:12
Speaker
And then the other one was a um ah believe I believe I'm not, it's been a while, but I believe if I'm not mistaken, it was a um, like a, uh, children's, um, home like uh you know what i'm talking about um oh my words are eluding me um but we're a home to take care of children an orphan orphanage orphanage thank you come um I'm like thinking children's hospital. I'm thinking different options. Okay. Yes. All right.
00:23:42
Speaker
So it was the hospital and the orphanage. Yeah. Well, so, so with that, um, ah going back to the whole whiskey, uh, thing, when he first started his, um, whiskey business, he used to call it Hopkins best.
00:23:56
Speaker
Yeah. So when at the end of every training, I would tell the um students this story about, you know, Hopkins. And then I would tell them, so when I call you Hopkins best, I'm not talking about the whiskey.
00:24:09
Speaker
That's so good. What a great hook. I love it. and love it. And thanks for the history lesson on Mr. Hopkins. yeah That's fascinating. Yeah.
00:24:19
Speaker
Wow. Johns Hopkins. So you were doing laboratory safety work there? So, yes, I transitioned there, was doing laboratory safety work, really bio um safety in particular as part of that team.
00:24:30
Speaker
And we would do, Joe, over 5,000 surveys a year of throughout. Yeah, there's a lot of labs. A whole lot of labs.
00:24:42
Speaker
i Yeah, it's a lot of labs. And you get you get to see some very interesting things in those labs. um But it was it was really good work. And I worked on the main campus as well. So I helped support them with just all general safety um um aspects too, but particularly laboratory safety. So just helping individuals understand, you know,
00:25:06
Speaker
the The inner workings of making sure hey got you got to make sure you got good hand hygiene, make sure these chemicals are segregated properly. but But like I said, at the end of the day, I also wanted to make sure I implemented in the aspect of professionalism that I learned from Jane.
00:25:22
Speaker
So stepping in. So as they're, you know, they're college students. I'm like, you want to apply for DuPont or. you know, Bechtel or, you know, Intel, whoever, you want to make sure you have these certain things in place. and if you And especially with leadership, it was like, okay, you might want to become the lab safety champion for your lab because now these companies are going to be looking for those particular um credentials or accolades that you've taken initiatives here at this time.
00:25:51
Speaker
um So those are some opportunities that I had to have because personal development was huge, to is is huge to me as well. um So it was a good time being in that space with those young minds. Yeah.
00:26:02
Speaker
That's yeah. Really interesting. Yeah. Direction that you went, went ah at this point in your career in the story, who were you thinking like me, I think safety is my career or were you still thinking, uh, hip hop is my life and I'm going, to I'm going to get that Grammy.
00:26:25
Speaker
Yeah. so I mean, two two things can be true. i mean, you know. yeah yeah At this point, i was i was I was now married my second child and and things for me had drastically changed from...
Educational Pursuits and Career Development
00:26:44
Speaker
being a hip-hop mogul to personally i was ah you know exploring other things in my life and and and the turn of where i was um as as a person where that that that that went to bed it's still a part it went it was still a part of me yeah but i didn't need that part anymore yeah and so now the thought was okay how do I leverage what I've learned in safety, and in life, in professional development, all these different spaces?
00:27:17
Speaker
Because I you know i have an MBA in project management. I have an IT, a BS in IT. So I wanted to always figure out, like, how do I interconnect these things to really add value in the best possible way? So that it was like,
00:27:34
Speaker
safety is the is this space, but it doesn't always have to be the space where the that that is seen and projected. So it was like, oh, if I can help somebody else in another area, you know, hey launch a podcast or, um you know, see some other things, implement a new IT t system, like I would do those things.
00:28:03
Speaker
um but also bring that into um safety. So when you started talking about digitizing things and doing that with checklists and, you know, just making things more simplified, more, you know, looking at how do we ah streamline things, make it more effective.
00:28:21
Speaker
Those were starting, those pieces started coming together for me where um I was shifting. Now, what does it look like for me to,
00:28:34
Speaker
put some more credentials behind what I'm doing in safety. Uh-huh. Yeah. So i was going to ask when... When did you finish your your bachelor's degree and your MBA? Was it during this time at Johns Hopkins or have you been, you know, continuously? Because those are two huge accomplishments.
00:28:55
Speaker
How did you do that? yeah Yeah. Yeah. So I'll share like how my wife shares it with me. She says, babe, you can get A. What did she say? Oh, you can get a it's okay to get a C in the class, but get an A in life.
00:29:14
Speaker
because yeah at the time it was um you know married i was I think I started my bachelor's right I went back and went back and restarted my bachelor's going to Columbia Southern University online because because Jane Clark yeah encouraged me to do that okay she did she encouraged me to do it in safety and I said uh Because I still wanted to be a hip hop producer. sos But I said, I will go ahead and pursue it because I know it was how how valuable that would be for me to accomplish that.
00:29:46
Speaker
So I did that at the time. And then graduated. I finished that in 2010. And then in 2016, I said, you know what?
00:29:57
Speaker
I want to go back and get my master's. And that's when ah ah believe, yeah, I think it was around the Hopkins era where I decided to go back and get my master's because I i really wanted to, you know, understand some more things about business yes and um some more things about, again, marketing, about teams, ah but about, you know, just all of these spaces that I was hearing about and being exposed to.
00:30:30
Speaker
But I knew that for me in particular, that I had to have those things to help quote unquote level the playing field when I was looking and and aspiring to other positions higher than what I was because at the time I was i was a specialist.
00:30:49
Speaker
So, okay, now I'm reading like John Maxwell and um'm um um um I'm... I'm an avid reader. ah And so I'm reading John Maxwell or Simon Sinek and other things. And I'm like, okay, all these you know notions about leadership.
00:31:04
Speaker
and And I'm like, okay, well, how do I get there? And I see these job description and like, oh, you have to have this MBA or you need to have this ah ASP and these CSPs. And I'm like, yeah okay, now I need to go ahead and figure that out.
00:31:19
Speaker
The first time I took the ASP, Jill, I failed it so bad. And I cried so hard in the car.
Personal Challenges and Inspiration
00:31:29
Speaker
because Yeah. Oh, it was terrible.
00:31:33
Speaker
i'm sorry It's all good. It's all good. is it i It was my own fault because I didn't take it seriously the first time to be all to be fully transparent. I you know i knew it was going to be a hard test-ish, but i when I say I didn't take it seriously, I took like a course for maybe a week.
00:31:52
Speaker
um and And when I came back, took the you know but four or five grueling hours, it was brutal. and And I got out of there, and I didn't want to see anything safety, ASP, CSP, RESP, ECT at all. I was like...
00:32:10
Speaker
you can For like years. i was like, you can forget all of that. And then COVID came.
00:32:24
Speaker
And my last daughter came during COVID. And that experience changed so much in my life.
00:32:38
Speaker
Yeah, same more. Same more. So you've got a five-year-old. Okay, got it. I'm tracking. Yeah, so we got a 16-year-old, a 19, maybe 10-year-old, and almost five-year-old, Gemma Grace.
00:32:51
Speaker
And so Gemma was born premature with a heart defect during COVID. dan
00:33:03
Speaker
Imagine. No, I mean, I i i yeah yeah i can't. yeah I mean, life was happening to everyone and many, many people had lots of things happening in addition to a global pandemic.
00:33:17
Speaker
Yeah. It was, I mean, it you when you talk about, and i'm i'm um this time I'm not at Hopkins at the time, I'm i'm back in closer to home working on an installation again, back at Aberdeen Proving Ground.
00:33:32
Speaker
um And at the time, you know, the hospitals are are are so tight locked. yeah Nobody can come in and visit us. And barely, you know, we got to come in at separate times in the beginning because you just didn't know, um you know, what was happening, what was going on, who who should be where, right you know, all these plexiglass is going up, oh all the things.
00:33:57
Speaker
And in the midst of this, my wife and I are faced with this um this, this, this, like, this like amazing, beautiful, yet frustrating, debilitating, ah you know, like situation of we have our, we have our daughter here who is literally fighting every day to make it.
00:34:23
Speaker
and And we're trying to figure out what to do with all of this because, quite frankly, we don't there's not a whole lot of answers at this time about what the situation is and and what they're what they're going to do.
00:34:37
Speaker
And so... It changed a lot because Gemma, like I said, she's ah she's such a fighter. I mean, she's just, ah so just give you a picture of it.
00:34:50
Speaker
her her um She has this heart defect. She has a hole. It was a hole basically between the left and the right. And then her intestines die on her.
00:35:01
Speaker
Twice. And then she has to get open heart surgery like at Christmas time. And and then we have to do another open heart surgery the following summer.
00:35:13
Speaker
And then she ends up getting double pneumonia. And and me and my wife are just like. Wow. Yeah. OK. And and it was hard. it was the first time i ever had a panic attack.
00:35:27
Speaker
I believe it. Yeah. But what came out of it just just from for me ah had had to I realized something. ah ah need to go I need to go even further.
00:35:43
Speaker
like i need the ah need to push even further because I'm looking at my daughter and I'm seeing her not give up. who And I'm looking at and I'm like, you gave up on not doing a test?
00:35:58
Speaker
like and and you got And you got this little infant baby like not giving up on life? So wow I said, you know what, I'm go do it.
00:36:10
Speaker
And I did it. And um um I never regret it because I knew it was going to allow me the ability to do some things different for my family and for others.
00:36:21
Speaker
yeah um And I've gotten that opportunity now because ah you know, being in leadership, being a manager, being able to help shape change in a different way. um It's really been so fulfilling um to see it all coming through fruition to where I'm now being at Paul.
00:36:40
Speaker
um It's just, I can't, I told them last night because i i I told you I do this thing. I know we talked about it before this. I did it actually last night, safety after dark. Oh, yes.
00:36:51
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. Tell the story about what safety after dark is. Yes. and And I just want to make sure that I'm acknowledging the fact that this little tiny baby in the way that she came into the world um inspired you.
00:37:08
Speaker
Anyway, the the little teeny weeny baby can be such an aspi an inspiration to move you forward professionally and and personally, it sounds so.
00:37:19
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. yeah no she And she's still doing it. because I bet. she' still She is still breaking barriers each and every day. and we're we're so all All three of our girls.
00:37:32
Speaker
yeah ah So when I started at Paul yes um almost three years ago, uh one of the things is you know it's a and then this is me just first officially stepping into the manufacturing world and that's just a whole different animal i know you've had other guests uh yes yes yes yeah i mean going from going from the government contracting work into from medical and now manufacturing yes you've seen many a thing in your 20 years already and And what's interesting, so so they didn't they don't tell you this in manufacturing.
Safety in Manufacturing and Initiatives
00:38:07
Speaker
They they hold it. So when I was looking for Hopkins or or you know government contracting, you have full-on safety teams. You have you have occupational health. You have radiation safety. You you got um the industrial hygienist.
00:38:25
Speaker
You got the Hazway Special. No, no, no. you When you get in the manufacturing... You're the guy. It's you, dog. It's you.
00:38:36
Speaker
That's you. D-O-T. know ah Oh, it's you. And you're like, okay. Sure, I can do that.
00:38:46
Speaker
yeah And i so when I got there, um yeah i did have an EHS, a senior EHS. specialist um stephanie oh my gosh jill have you ever get the chance to meet stephanie she is phenomenal um oh my gosh she is a one like caitlin clark like that kind of right yeah okay and So I was like, all right, Steph. I said, look, I said, my I'm here to support you, make it happen, whatever you want to do in your career. And and we're going to make sure these people are safe and good.
00:39:23
Speaker
And so when I got there, one of the things that she said to me was about just the presence of the safety team. and And at that time, we were just coming, they were just coming out of COVID, right?
00:39:35
Speaker
um and And they were trying to, and they were consolidating their plants from two to one. And so there was a lot of different changes going on um at the time. And so there was a lot of and unsettling and unrest. And again, going back to my hip hop era, I was trying to get the, pi you know, see what the rhythm was. Yep.
00:39:57
Speaker
And, and trying to get the, pi it was funny, Joe, when I first got there, before I talk about the safety at the dark, I walk in, I get the job. And then i think the first day I get there and somebody looks at me and it was like, Hey, who are you?
00:40:10
Speaker
And I'm like, I'm PJ. And they're like, I'm like, what you do? I'm like, I'm the EHS manager. They're like, no, you're not. Oh. Thanks. There must be an archetype and I'm not fitting it.
00:40:22
Speaker
Okay. and there ah So it can't be you.
00:40:27
Speaker
ah said, know. I said, okay. Oh, so we get there and I said, you know, what's up with the safety team? And she said, well, it's kind of here and there, you know, we try to make it happen.
00:40:38
Speaker
um And I said, okay. I said, well, what's some of the things, well, you know, especially representation on, you know, all the ships. And I said, well, I said, well, let's do this. I said, let's get it started on first shift, but let's do something for second and third that makes sense. Let's do safety.
00:40:55
Speaker
And I was just thinking again, going back, what's the hook? Yes. I love this. Let's do safety after dark. she love Okay. all right. yeah so so i said all We've been doing that since I've been there. So what we used to do was, when and so when I say used to, because um there's a story even behind Stephanie, what we used to do um Every other month, want to hurt either her or I would show up.
00:41:23
Speaker
And now it's solely me. And and there's a reason behind that. But I will tell you, the energy from the folks at night around safety is so amazing.
00:41:35
Speaker
is it they come they i mean Anybody who works night shift has a different type of energy anyways. Yeah, interesting. Yeah. Yeah, but they are like, it's so cool because, you know, they they they get they got the pulse of the plant, right? And you don't have a lot of presence of leadership at night.
00:41:57
Speaker
And so there's a different vibe on night shift than it is on day shift. And so I get i get privy to that information. So that's the beauty of it. and And really, it's no different from what I do on the first shift.
00:42:08
Speaker
Yeah. But the fact that I'm present there with them on night shift and and and and it's relaxed, it's you know it's not, oh, we're just looking at a whole bunch of PowerPoints. Well, we're talking about life, you know, because i what I realized there, especially with...
00:42:23
Speaker
um Our site, mental health is a huge issue. Yeah. um Because folks are just dealing with a lot of different pressures. And so with my safety teams, I'm always have this um safety share of a mental health moment for folks.
00:42:38
Speaker
Yeah. just Describe how that works. Well, it could be just, a it's just really a question okay um about something in particular around mental health and wellness or some kind of practice, some kind of mindfulness um to to share, whether it's, you know, some mindful meditation, um you know, a question around certain things with mental health, um you know, different resources that we have available.
00:43:05
Speaker
But what I find most, again, most important helpful and supportive is just I simply ask those questions like last night when i I asked the question this is all I ask how are you mm-hmm
00:43:20
Speaker
Are you here at the job? How are you at home? yeah You know, whatever you want to share. But just asking that simple question, I got so much. I got a thought out of a you know, he's happy to go back fishing again because it's getting sunnier outside.
00:43:34
Speaker
oh Somebody else was talking about how they're going out in the lawn, playing in the dirt. oh You know, it's just those kind of stories. And then even their excitement about what they saw about what we're doing now with management.
00:43:48
Speaker
oh and leadership at the site. They were like, no, I'm really excited. Like people are communicating, watching out for each other thing. Things are looking better because we're implementing five S I can see down this aisle way. Yeah. So it was just those things hearing them. It's like though that from that to me is mental health, mental wellness.
00:44:09
Speaker
yeah For them to express those things and get those things out and and build community. Right. That's how I always strive to like but build a culture. Yeah. you're You're making space for the humanness.
00:44:22
Speaker
Yeah. When everything else is wrapped around production.
00:44:29
Speaker
And quite frankly, you know, we, we, it's not a, it's no guessing game. That's what we're there to do. right is Right. Right. Right. right And at the same time, we are dealing with human beings.
00:44:42
Speaker
And so I, I, I always stress like, yes, there it needs to be a process. But even behind those processes, there's humans behind that. yeah Every process is created by a human in some way, shape, form or fashion.
00:44:54
Speaker
And so it's imperative that we invite them in. And that's even like where I'm at now is pushing the AI narrative. Yeah, say more about that.
00:45:05
Speaker
yeah i mean Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
AI and Data in Safety
00:45:09
Speaker
So I preface this with what one of your previous guests, and shout out to her. i haven't met her, but Sabina. Yeah. so Yeah.
00:45:17
Speaker
She said this about how with EHS, especially during COVID, and I'm paraphrasing, but how during COVID, it allowed EHS professionals to have a seat at the table.
00:45:28
Speaker
Yes. Well, now it's like, okay, I realize that. I do have a seat at the table. I am invited into certain rooms and ask, you know, stuff just beyond safety.
00:45:41
Speaker
And now I'm encouraged, very highly encouraged about What it looks like to be a thought leader in the AI space and what that means for me.
00:45:54
Speaker
and And I hope that your listeners get this. So I was introduced to it maybe like two years ago and it was in and on the background of of some friends of mine that I'm connected with on um personal development.
00:46:05
Speaker
And he was an IT leader. And so he introduced me to Chad GPT and Claude and Gemini and all these other things. So I started playing around with it there and realizing its potential in just that space because I'm i'm still big on, you know, just having my own hobbies and nuances and and things that I want to create because I'm a creative.
00:46:26
Speaker
hmm. So with that, I was like, well, how do I bring this to to Paul? How do I, yeah you know, really take advantage of this here? Because I'm getting these results in this space.
00:46:38
Speaker
And so what I did was um a couple of things. In 2023, and twenty twenty three We, you know, one of our big, you know, near misses, concern reports, things of that nature.
00:46:50
Speaker
Ergonomics was a huge issue. yeah um You know, we have we had this we have a seasoned crew. and And so I was hearing the stories. i was i was I was listening, taking the pulse, hearing the rhythm.
00:47:03
Speaker
And I said, okay, we need to go ahead and tackle this. and And so was able to introduce, you know, human tech here onto the site um in 2024. And then total from that, we haven't had any ergonomic related issues, incidents since that time.
00:47:22
Speaker
Wow. Because now we're able to, in real time, go, you know, take the video, see where we're red or green. and can talk to it a mechanical engineer or, in you know, a machinist.
00:47:35
Speaker
And, you know, we can look at, okay, do we buy something? Do we modify something? What do we do? Because now it's impact. And we've seen, and now I can show the people, hey, we've we've gone from here to here a lot quicker than taking, you know, four or five hours or maybe a couple of days to do an ergonomic assessment.
00:47:53
Speaker
Yep. Yep. Wonderful. And then from there, i was able to um implement some other initiatives. so So 2023, 2024, because we were we were still high on the recordables at the time.
00:48:08
Speaker
um So i was like, you know, what do we do? How do we do it? and And this is what I'm talking about with AI as far as a thought leader. So AI, from what I understand, are and and believe is it's a thought partner.
00:48:22
Speaker
it's not It's not something to replace you. It's not something to take over. what a beautiful What a beautiful way to put it. I love that. AI as a thought partner. No, that's great. Yes. Okay.
00:48:33
Speaker
so So you as the thought leader, you get to dick you get to set the boundaries, the tone, the atmosphere. You get to, I encourage everybody, especially EHS leaders, because this is something I found out, Jill.
00:48:48
Speaker
If 75% of men just manufacturing industries is investing millions of dollars into AI, ah huh yet only from what i I think I was a, maybe was in one of the reports that I saw that 13% of EHS leaders are even considering you know, what AI is, that's a huge gap.
00:49:17
Speaker
it It is a huge gap. It's a conversation that I had, I had recently as, as well with, with, um with people in, in, within my organization. And, and yeah like the question always is, Jill, are yeah EHS people paying attention to artificial intelligence?
00:49:35
Speaker
Yeah. and And in my experience, until I've met you, PJ, and a few others, it's more like kind of those baby stages of chat GPT and some of those some of those other things.
00:49:51
Speaker
and And that also, that's not to diss our profession or say that we're out, but it's... It's common. You've been at this 20 years. I always, always, in my observation, 32 years into this career, that our profession is often sometimes a century behind technology. Hmm.
00:50:14
Speaker
And so we're we're slow to adopt. And I don't think that's a fault of the profession as much as it is what Sabina was talking about, having a seat at the table. And we're just getting those seats.
00:50:25
Speaker
And so I think we're able to move a little bit faster to can two to convince our leadership teams that we have a place, A, a place at the table, B, the tools to do the job.
00:50:37
Speaker
And they don't have to be a VHS tape from 1980. nineteen eighty s Now, yeah. Does that make sense? That does. It does make sense. And I've seen it. I've i've i've seen it in in different areas that I've been where, you know, you you see other areas, ah other departments have all the tools, all the access. stuff Exactly. they That's what I'm saying.
00:50:59
Speaker
That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. It's like, do you like EHS? Oh, you're exactly like, oh, EHS, your SDS is in a binder, but we're going to clock people in with an optical scanner.
00:51:12
Speaker
right ah yeah exactly it's like where's those hasps at oh yeah okay ah so sorry if we sorry if we took that and you know different direction please come back to your no no you're good i love it but and so with that my my you know i i just say what i always do i love to encourage people i don't i i don't tell nobody do what you grown you do what you want.
00:51:40
Speaker
But what I encourage us to do is to take those steps because ah for I will just say, one, AI is not going away.
00:51:51
Speaker
There's a book that I'm reading right now called AI Leadership by Jeff Wood. ah encourage folks to take a look at that, read that. um But what he says in there, which I agree with, is the train is left and it's not stopping.
00:52:05
Speaker
yeah And so with that, What are we going to do with it? You know, we're we're we're stepping into the millennials, all those annual ages where we're having a new workforce. They're asking different questions and you need to be prepared for those things. And the demands are getting higher.
00:52:24
Speaker
um Quite frankly, there's all these unrest, there's all this uncertainty, yeah and you want to be able to to be able to manage those things effectively, efficiently. um That's why I say being a thought leader means, you know, using it strategically, going beyond simply the compliance.
00:52:42
Speaker
That's what I'm always thinking about. Like, compliance is very necessary, and we can't scapegoat that. but We can't diminish that. But it's the bot it's the base it's the baseline. It's the minimum. Yes. And for yeah EHS leaders, i say like I say this, how can you make an impact beyond those things that really are truly affecting the business?
00:53:03
Speaker
And that is what I got from what Sabina was sharing was, hey, this is the huge opportunity for us. And AI is really allowing us and other others and other parts to to leverage those things, to bring back that creativity that we have, you know, to bring back that...
00:53:22
Speaker
um to to play with certain things. You know, there's these myths, ah right, around AIs like, oh, is it reliable? What about the risk? Well, I encourage people, understand prompt engineering.
00:53:37
Speaker
i took I took a class with it yeah and and for business transformation through Purdue University. Understand the limitations that you can put on it. Understand the the factors that play when you put in a prompt to make them clear, to make them structured, to give a framework.
00:53:53
Speaker
So it it gives you to get other perspectives. Yeah. from other um from all of these different bodies of information that are available so that you can go to your plant manager or your site director or whoever and ask the questions, hey, have you considered?
00:54:10
Speaker
And see, because what I've learned from mentors and other people in like a lot of times it's the people that are willing to chase those problems who get the greater opportunities to get the greater impact, to have the greater return on impact and investment that make the difference. And that's where I'm at um in my life because I know what it matters at the end of the day for the people that um that that are impacted by what what we do, how we do it.
00:54:41
Speaker
um And that's that's that to me is the greatest thing. So Yeah, that's, that's wonderful. And the, who the, the class that you took at Purdue on generative AI, I'm guessing it, you know, it taught it taught you good what a good prompt is, but I bet it also taught you the precautions thereof the ways to check your sources, you know, all of those things too. Yes.
00:55:03
Speaker
Yes, it did. It did. um and and And again, AI is it it's on an exponential a climb. Yeah. so So it's even changing even today, even from when I took that class. Sure. So I still have to learn.
00:55:18
Speaker
even more from what I did in that class from other from other industries, from other experts about, you know, what should what should my prompt really be focusing on?
00:55:29
Speaker
How should I be structuring it? But it's learning those basics around that and other nuances too. But I start there because that's a core basic in this space when you're talking about it. But Doing my data analytics, I was able to do that to understand, like, okay, what are some of these granular things that we're having around our slip, trips, and falls? And so it's like, okay, well, what would it took me ah a whole week to do, right? Now, it's take again, what what did we say earlier?
00:55:58
Speaker
i When you become... but but And especially in manufacturing and those other industries, when you're the only person in in the room to figure out the things for safety. Yeah.
00:56:09
Speaker
Time is of the essence. And I'm not saying, oh, you got rush through it. But this is a chance to really expand what you're doing and be more streamlined with what you're doing so that you have a certain level of surety about what you do.
00:56:22
Speaker
And that's why i say you need to learn it. to to to to your advantage and but and let utilize let it utilizing in that way and not take a um kind so side road from what you what you're doing because you're so ingrained in like getting that information and and it's taking more time to really be of an impact and you're not reactive you're being now you get to be proactive more Yeah, that's beautiful.
00:56:46
Speaker
a couple of weeks ago, hsi the company where I work, we gathered our customer advisory board together for one of our one of our meetings. we have We meet with them a few times a year.
00:56:59
Speaker
And I asked um a question and we do it we did it as a poll to be able to have spur a conversation. And the question was, do you feel like the EHS profession is getting more or less influential?
00:57:13
Speaker
And 75% of them said more influential. And then we said, why do you think that's the case? Like interesting outcome, wonderful outcome. why Why do you think that's the case?
00:57:27
Speaker
And they all said, because we have data. Because we have data that tells a story in a similar way that our counterparts in other pieces of the organization have always had data. Now we have it.
00:57:45
Speaker
um Because of the systems and platforms and the things that you're talking about, PJ, yeah it gets you to be able to tell a story. You have a voice. You have the you have the data to back it up.
00:57:57
Speaker
and And now you're firmly in that seat at the table as part of the decision-making team. And so therefore, they said that's why they felt we're more influential as as a profession.
00:58:12
Speaker
Yeah. No, I like that. Yeah. Yeah. I like it because it does give us, again, the ability to go back to what I said, is to have the conviction about what we're sharing.
00:58:23
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. Because, you know, data is so anded so key, especially with leadership. They, you know, I got asked a question recently about it, you know, because of certain situations. They were like, well, PJ, PJ.
00:58:38
Speaker
You know, what's your confidence level that we're taking the right actions? And so in that meeting, I was able to express, well, here's the data. This is what it looks like. We have this, this particular area would not be in the consideration because it's maybe fifth or sixth on the list.
00:58:54
Speaker
So I don't want to deviate from the strategy, from the vision that I've already created based on the data that we've already collected. Yeah. And that leader said, you know what? ah appreciate that. And I was able to give him that story and back it up with data.
00:59:07
Speaker
So there was no, his his confidence level was ah was sure because my confidence level was sure. That's right. ah huh Beautiful. That is beautiful. and I know that we're we running short on time and i'm so I'm so appreciative of this conversation today. And I know there are a few other things in my notes that I wanted to ask you about if you if you don't mind.
00:59:29
Speaker
No, go ahead. and I mean, and and we've been, it this has been such a positive and warm conversation. And I know that you also, and I appreciate that. It's wonderful. And I know that you also perhaps wanted to tell a story about a time that you were threatened in safety and maybe that outcome.
00:59:48
Speaker
I don't want to take us down a downer road. ah However, I have a feeling that this is going to be a good life lesson. So do do you want, do you want to share that? can share it. Oh, absolutely. Look, me, you one thing we'll learn, all this stuff is cheesecake.
01:00:08
Speaker
A good friend of mine, which I need to introduce you to because he's in construction safety. ah he He shared that with me when I first became a manager. I was all frazzled. I was like, bruh, what do I do?
01:00:21
Speaker
He said, hey, man, all this stuff is cheesecake. What did he mean? Okay, tell me what he meant by that. yeah So what he meant by that was not to diminish what we do as safety.
01:00:35
Speaker
yeah What he meant by that was like, you you know, we, we've been through some things in life yes that have been really, like I said, my daughter's been through COVID. There's other life stories. I'm sure you got life stories. The listeners have, and, and that's what he was getting at. Like you've overcome a lot. So this right here ain't nothing but cheesecake. You can figure this out.
01:00:55
Speaker
I love it. Yeah. Yeah. you So, so this is in the beginning of my EHS career and you know, I'm, I'm green, I'm fresh. I'm trying to make a name for myself. PJ safety guy.
01:01:10
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah You don't look like a safety guy. Yeah. um you know i don't know I mean, that's what they that's what they told you when you walked in the door, Paul. Okay, yeah. Right. they stood And they still don't. They still don't believe me. They'd be walking up to me and be like, I got literally wear a t-shirt. I have like several of them.
01:01:27
Speaker
I have like safety manager limited edition. They think it's for them. It's for me to remind me. But it was early on in my career and I was working at the NIA and I was I was walking throughout the
Overcoming Early Career Challenges
01:01:43
Speaker
labs.
01:01:43
Speaker
And ah one of the tasks was just to, you know, do, you know, labs say look like sat lab surveys, just doing a quick and inspection of different people's labs and and what they were.
01:01:55
Speaker
So I was doing labs and offices. Well, Jill, welcome to this one gentleman's lab. And no, no, his office. He's a researcher. All I saw were like the tower, like the twin, like, you know, the computer towers, the computer towers of, of paper, just stacks and stacks of paper up above, like all through all this research for.
01:02:26
Speaker
So, and it's a small office space. And I'm looking at this and I'm like, this is a fire waiting to happen. and we um we have ah We have a lot of combustibles in here. Right. We got a lot of combustibles.
01:02:41
Speaker
he's He's got no way to get in and out of here. I mean, we're talking life safety code, all the all the things. So I look at that and I'm like, you know, I write it up and I i say, hey, um you know, are you okay in here? And he's like, yeah right oh, I don't know because there's a lot. So I wrote it up in the report. I send it and, you know, email it, ah you know, as I'm supposed to because that's what i'm I'm required to do that, you know, this needs to get corrected.
01:03:11
Speaker
and And then i get an email back. ah Basically, letting me know, ah what you know, why did I call this out? and know And so I'm like, well, it's it's not in compliance. he can He could, if there's a fire breaks out, how is he going to get out of this office when there's all these combustibles in here and he's got no line of ps sight to get even out of it? so um ah So I'm like, okay.
01:03:41
Speaker
i I walk out of my office. I'm walking through the halls. And I see the researcher. and was there the Was there theme music playing in the background somehow? I can it was it was the it was the It was those dark parts of the like the Avenger movie. yeah yes what It was like a Thanos moment. It was like a Thanos.
01:04:06
Speaker
So he walks up to me and he says, did you write me up for having all my papers and, you know, all these things? And I was like, yeah, I did. I said, you know, i'm I'm just thinking about you and your safety. i don't, you know, I don't want to see something happen to you because you had all those papers in there. It's just, you know, can we move them out? so And it it proceeded to go on into...
01:04:30
Speaker
you know how dare I call him out on that he's been there for you know eons oh yeah that why would I do that yeah and it was like do you do we gotta have do we gotta to have this conversation out here and the parking lot and I'm and now now now me I'm like look now oh yeah me i'm like hello i got it i got a dad I got a dad who was a former ah Vietnam vet.
01:04:59
Speaker
man All right. And so he taught us a certain level of things to do in these situations. But I can't do that because I got to be professional, Jill. You know what I'm saying?
01:05:11
Speaker
So I looked at him and I said, no, there's no need for that.
01:05:17
Speaker
and I proceeded to walk the other way. Good work. Perfect. Perfect. But I was definitely shocked. and I was. i was and i was part i And it was in those moments. I was like, is this really worth it? Like to do the safety thing? Because this is so hard.
01:05:37
Speaker
I've seen it. And there was other threats along the way and other ways and shapes, forms, and fashions. We've all had them. yeah i'm like man was like why are these it's like man here comes the safety guy you're gone you're gonna do i'm like it's not it ain't that deep that's right all right mean so yeah you had said you know don't lose yourself for the sake of the job so you chose yourself that day Yeah.
Importance of Relationships
01:06:07
Speaker
Yeah. And I, you know, I, I, again, and even after that, I, again, I'm big on relationships. And even if you don't like me, you're not my best friend whatever.
01:06:18
Speaker
I still respect and care. I tell people this all the time at my trainings from, from, for a minute. I care about the person that cares about you the most.
01:06:28
Speaker
And that means something to me. It really does. because i Say that again, PJ. I care about the person that cares about you the most. Yeah, that's right.
01:06:39
Speaker
And then I ask them to put that person, picture that person in their mind, whoever that is. they They have a certain belief and a trust that they're going to, at the end of the day, see you, talk to you, FaceTime, text, whatever that is. That's right.
01:06:57
Speaker
And know that you're okay. Mm-hmm. And so it's imperative that we build some sort of relationship, communication, connection change ensure that that happens to the best of our ability.
01:07:10
Speaker
I can't promise you perfection, but I can assure you that that means a lot to me when those calls have to be made and it looks different for them.
01:07:21
Speaker
That's beautiful. I love it.
01:07:25
Speaker
I feel like we can leave it there. Unless you're going to drop any other great things. I mean, we've had... I mean, Emily, our producer, is going to have and ah so much fun naming this this episode. Oh my goodness.
01:07:42
Speaker
PJ, we could do a coffee table book of PJ quotes at this point. Awesome. EHS coffee table book. Maybe that's going to be what we're going to collaborate on. I love it. yeah I love it.
01:07:55
Speaker
I've enjoyed this whole time. yes Thank you so much. Me too. Me too. Thank you. It's just been so fun. Safety after dark and what's my hook. and And I want to make sure that i shout I shout out the women in your life who've definitely been guiding you along the way. You've mentioned Jane and Stephanie and Gemma and your mom.
01:08:15
Speaker
oh yeah oh and And I can't forget Gladys, my wife. yeah i said what and glad Oh,
01:08:24
Speaker
Yes. The reason why i said the Stephanie part, and you don't have to add this if you don't want, but Stephanie is now, it's it's wild. So last year, And this around this time, Stephanie had the opportunity to to um get promoted.
01:08:40
Speaker
But so now she is our and when you hear this, you're like, what? She's our operations manager. From safety to operations. she went from safety to operations. Awesome.
01:08:53
Speaker
ah Right. yeah So I, you know, like I said, she's, she's my Caitlin Clark, um you know, phenomenal. She actually goes to Hopkins now. She's going for her master's degree. I mean, this, this young lady, i mean, she, she is so, she cares about the people so much. She's so ah you know organized and, and, and, and and deliberate.
01:09:13
Speaker
And so when they, when they presented it, I was like, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. it makes total sense. Yeah. And I have another in right yeah into the into the side. So we still collaborate on a lot of different things. And she brings it up to me. She's like, hey, this is going on. Can you help me out with this? And I i always I told her, i said, ah hey, I always have your back no matter what.
01:09:33
Speaker
Surround yourself with good people. Surround yourself with good people. And that's been your story today, PJ. Surround yourself with good people and creativity and joy and paying attention to to human beings.
01:09:47
Speaker
It's wonderful. It's wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing your story. Oh, yeah, absolutely. been my pleasure. Thank you. Thank you so much for hearing me. yeah And thank you for spending your time listening today. And more importantly, thank you for your contribution toward the common good.
01:10:02
Speaker
may our employees and those we influence know that our profession cares deeply about human well-being, which is the core of our practice. If you aren't subscribed and want to hear past and future episodes, you can subscribe.
01:10:15
Speaker
in iTunes, the Apple podcast app, or any other podcast player that you'd like. Or if you'd like to read the transcripts, you can pick up on all of those great things PJ shared today. You can read and listen at hsi.com.
01:10:29
Speaker
We'd love it if you could leave a rating and review us on iTunes. It really helps us connect the show with more and more health and safety professionals like PJ and I. Special thanks to Emily Gould, our podcast producer.
01:10:40
Speaker
And until next time, thanks for listening.