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Sofa Series | Reflections on Ritual, Presence, & Inner Awareness with Elizabeth Morton
149 Plays11 months ago
Join your co-host Chiara "Cheech" in this week's episode of The Ripple Affect Podcast's Sofa Series for an engaging conversation with Elizabeth Morton, a trusted spiritual advisor and dear friend. In this episode, they explore the impactful role of ritual and ceremony in personal change, delving into both secular and spiritual perspectives. The discussion navigates through essential themes like safety, self-awareness, acceptance, and authenticity, shedding light on the importance of presence and listening, learned from Elizabeth's extensive experience in acting. They touch upon the concept of meliorism, the balance between action and spiritual bypassing, and the significance of emotional processing and holding contradictions. This conversation also delves into radical self-acceptance and embracing life's uncertainties. Cheech and "Liz", as Chiara lovingly calls her, engage in a dialogue that provides a refreshing and insightful look into various aspects of spiritual direction and inner awareness, offering listeners a unique opportunity to reflect on their own paths of personal growth and transformation. Tune in for a candid and thought-provoking discussion that promises to be as enlightening as it is heartwarming.
Visit: www.rippleaffectpod.com
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Transcript
Introduction: The Power of Individual Change
00:00:04
Speaker
You're listening to The Ripple Effect with your hosts Cheech and Nippy, a podcast that explores how individual change has the capacity to affect the whole. From neuroscience to donuts, we're two sisters with a deep curiosity for ancient wisdom and modern knowledge, and we're obsessed with learning alongside you because we don't know. Let's dive in.
Guest Introduction: Elizabeth Morton
00:00:27
Speaker
Welcome to this week's episode of the Ripple Effect podcast. This is Kiara Cheech, and in today's episode as a part of our sofa series, where we interview great minds as a resource for change for you and for my sister and me as hosts, I get to bring on one of the very first people I knew I wanted to interview for the show, one of my trusted spiritual advisors and dear friend, Elizabeth Morton.
00:00:50
Speaker
Elizabeth is a talented multi-hyphenate. She is an actor, writer, and secular chaplain. Her educational background, high school and college, was very focused on the theater and she's performed on regional and New York City stages as well as on television. Her most recent writing projects include a blog, The Morton Train, I highly recommend it,
00:01:09
Speaker
on Substack, and a short film called Threshold, which we dive more deeply into both of those in this conversation, and many other strong scripts in development. Alongside her creative endeavors, Elizabeth is professionally trained in both interfaith ministry and spiritual direction.
Themes of Change and Authenticity
00:01:25
Speaker
In this sofa series, Liz, as I call her because she's a dear friend, it's less like an interview and more like a conversation guided by our mutual interests. It's seriously jam-packed, so we explore change through ritual and ceremony, both secular and spiritual, ways to engage with safety, self-awareness, acceptance, authenticity, presence, and transformation. Oh, and how to trust your inner compass.
00:01:48
Speaker
She describes meliorism, I still don't know how to say it, and how acting has taught us both presence and the art of listening. Being in action versus spiritual bypassing is something we cover, tools for emotional processing, holding contradictions, radical self-acceptance, and the naturalness of embracing the unknown. Oh my god, there's so much. You also get an overview of Elizabeth's many services as a secular chaplain, spiritual director, and inner awareness and discernment coach.
00:02:15
Speaker
I truly couldn't be more excited to introduce you to my dear friend Elizabeth. Enjoy the conversation.
00:02:25
Speaker
Welcome, Liz. Thank you. I'm so excited to have you here. It's great to be here. Yeah, welcome to the podcast. We just kind of did a little introduction with your bio, but you're many things. You're multifaceted. I know this about you. You are a writer. You're an actor. You're a chaplain. I want to start off the conversation by asking you, how do you feel all those things fit together or integrate together, or are they very separate for you?
00:02:54
Speaker
It's interesting, you know, I think the word vocation has been really important to me in my life, like feeling
00:03:00
Speaker
not just going to pursue a job of some kind, but sort of following a calling, if you want to call it that, or at least not just a calling, but a passion, a curiosity, something that won't let go. There's a gift involved, right? Like a gift that you are born with. So to trust that that is something also is of your way of contributing to the world. And so you have a responsibility to that gift.
00:03:27
Speaker
I think that's how I've sort of framed my work life more than through the lens of just ambition or career. Recognizing I had a vocation to acting happened in my teens and recognizing that I had a vocation to ministry slash chaplaincy happened in my twenties, writing happened in my thirties.
00:03:51
Speaker
just decided to somehow knit them all together and follow each separately in a way. But they do overlap for me. And when that happens, it's it's terrific. I actually just shot a short film this summer that I wrote and it was the first time where
00:04:08
Speaker
In a professional setting, all three were braided together because
Inspiration Behind 'Threshold'
00:04:12
Speaker
of... Oh, that's threshold, right? Yeah, threshold. I got the privilege of reading an early draft of that. Your subject matter you choose to write about, I think, is very timeless and current at the same time and important. Well, yeah, I'm not a fan of trite.
00:04:30
Speaker
I think I cut you off, though, but you were saying they came all together in Threshold. Oh, yeah, it came all together because, well, I wrote it, obviously. And then also I was an actor in it. And in it, I actually got to play, I played a Unitarian minister, which that's not what I am. But anyway, just the fact that I got to be the one doing the ritual that's in the short film. Can you tell people a little bit about what Threshold
00:04:54
Speaker
is about because I just loved the subject matter and I kind of talked around it. Sure. Over the years, I've officiated about 50 weddings. And so I thought, what would happen if somebody asked me to officiate a divorce? Who would do that? What would that look like?
00:05:10
Speaker
And so that was the impetus behind it. And Threshold quite simply is about a lesbian couple in their 60s who've been together for like 35 years, have adult kids, chosen family, the whole nine yards, and they've chosen to lovingly divorce. And so they have a ceremony in their home.
00:05:31
Speaker
And it's met with mixed reactions, shall we say, from their friends and family. And so I was the one that officiated this very simple ritual. And speaking of this theme of change, I do believe that sometimes, in the same way that we honor a birthday or have a baby blessing or memorial service, that other times in our lives,
00:05:59
Speaker
can also be marked with ritual and sometimes need to be marked with ritual.
Rituals in Life Transitions
00:06:06
Speaker
And some of those are the times of transition. Yeah. Speaking of that, ritual helps us move through transitions, yes? Yeah.
00:06:16
Speaker
And culturally, indigenously, it was relied on to actually help an individual shift or a collective, meaning a community shift, like rituals were not just markers of things, but their ceremony too, in a process to help
00:06:37
Speaker
help things transition and transform. Well, it's such a way of honoring life's transitions. A ritual or a ceremony lifts us out of the ordinary. It puts our attention on the mystery of life. It also is just a way of honoring by naming it, by saying, this is a transition.
00:07:02
Speaker
I am naming that this is happening in your life, and I have witnesses, and I am lovingly recognizing that this thing is happening. I had a friend, oh my gosh, years ago, who was going through menopause, and she said, and this is a friend who is in no way identifies as a spiritual person in term, like she, I don't know if she uses the word atheist, but she's right up there with that. And she wanted to somehow mark
00:07:29
Speaker
this change in her life. And she asked me to create a ceremony around that. And I did. And it was really, I think, powerful for all the women who were there and present. And it was very simple. It can be so simple. But it's just a way of naming and framing and honoring what's happening in someone's life.
00:07:53
Speaker
Yeah, so that you can be more present for it and open up what you might actually feel around it, meaning being able to have space to feel the complexity of the nature of a transition, of a transformation, and to be able to own it a little more for yourself. I think setting up
00:08:16
Speaker
conscious rituals do provide an agency for yourself. And you talked about this in your blog and we've talked about this together as well in prior conversations about how the words ritual and ceremony can be hijacked by the religious connotations.
00:08:39
Speaker
and separating those out is important. Sure. Well,
Exploring Spirituality and Secular Sacredness
00:08:46
Speaker
it's interesting. I think one of the reasons I felt curious in my 20s to follow this bizarre calling or whatever it was I was using, how to name it, was in my 20s I studied interfaith ministry for two years because the thing was I was so curious about spirituality and
00:09:08
Speaker
also very aware that most people in my generation and certainly my generation of artists and New Yorkers and political lefties and stuff seemed almost allergic to religion. Like they actually, you know,
00:09:23
Speaker
Oftentimes, I found that it was a lot easier to come out as a lesbian with these people than to come out as an interfaith minister. I would sometimes say that word and they would bristle like, oh my God, that word. Did anything religious, anything spiritual, some people, they get the willies. They just freak out.
00:09:43
Speaker
So I was like, I think that's interesting. And at the same time, regardless of any spiritual framework, we have this longing for connection, right? This longing to understand ourselves and our lives and our connection to the all and our feeling of aliveness.
00:10:02
Speaker
that desire for ritual is there, even if you don't belong to any kind of religious or spiritual community. And I have officiated so many ceremonies, be they a memorial service or a wedding, where people say, please don't use God language. Please don't use spiritual language. And I'm like, okay, got it.
00:10:22
Speaker
And yet, it's still a sacred experience for everyone involved because of the intention, because of the love, because of the ritual. Yeah. It's just this, let's, we're all coming together. We humans, here we are in a circle.
00:10:40
Speaker
and here we are lighting a candle and here we are having an intentional moment and here we are all being present with our phones turned off and loving our hearts and a willingness to witness whatever's happening here. A willingness to witness whatever's happening I feel like is such a could be like transformed into a mantra you know for life because that is a helpful tool and when I started to create
00:11:07
Speaker
private rituals for myself to honor that I required some sacred time and sacred space for myself and that
00:11:20
Speaker
it was helpful for me to call it a ritual so that my heart and my mind and my gut could get behind what I was wanting to look at, what I had a willingness to witness for myself, really provided me a lot of strength to change, to look at myself and to deal with whatever it was I was going through.
00:11:48
Speaker
to put a little context on that. For instance, I realized that being in water was something really, really alchemizing for me, something that was really safe feeling for me. And so I started to recognize that more often than not, I needed to take a bath and I needed to have
00:12:12
Speaker
whatever came up in that bath time emotionally or mentally and spiritually to be okay for me to look at and process through. And so to be frank, I do some weird shit. And it was the freedom to do some weird whatever came through in my own privacy of my own home. And let that be okay was, and naming that my ritual,
00:12:41
Speaker
did empower me. And it feels old, it feels ancient, it feels connected to my native roots, but all of ours native roots, because at some point in another or another, we all came from indigenous people, you know, like civilization didn't just snap and become. So there's indigenous of all of our cultures and those
00:13:06
Speaker
people, our ancestors, were absolutely partaking with the elements. The elemental forces fire earth, you know, air, water to help themselves. Well, it's interesting that you mentioned the elements because I think
00:13:24
Speaker
A lot of ritual is tactile for people because it's a way of, you know, we sort of exist in our heads so much in our culture, in our society, right? And so to put it into, to light the candle, to see that flame, to smell that incense, to have the campfire or the bath or a certain food we might eat or a certain drink we might eat with intention
00:13:53
Speaker
It's a way of delighting our senses and reminding our senses of saying, oh, this is now this. Like when I light a candle for myself, it's like a shortcut for me to connect because it's telling me, oh, okay, now it's a time to get a little quiet and listen a little bit.
00:14:16
Speaker
And then also there's certain places of walking. I consider the act of walking, there's a specific hike in Los Angeles that I love and I take long walks in Central Park in New York and then obviously when I'm in the wilderness or anywhere really, just taking a long walk too is a ritual for me.
00:14:41
Speaker
And again, it's getting me into my body. It's getting me out of my head. That is such a good point of the simplicity of it can be anything. You naming it a ritual makes it so. You naming it a ceremony makes it so. And there's ancient ceremonies, and then there's the new ones that you're going to come up with that are tailored to you that work for you.
00:15:10
Speaker
And it's i think it's the power of being able to participate with yourself with a certain like you said framework of mindset and really body set right to set your body up your emotional body your spiritual body your theory body.
00:15:28
Speaker
your energetic body, right these to try to bring them all together a little bit. Because for me, like I split, I get split so often, right? I'm really in my mental body and not in my emotional body. And then I'll if I'm not in my emotional body, all of a sudden, it like builds up like, like a volcano. And then it's like, Oh, I gotta, I gotta cry or I gotta process these things. And just trying to find the balancing act of holistic to have a holistic body integration, I think is
00:15:58
Speaker
challenging in a modern world? Well, I think that sort of integrated
00:16:09
Speaker
Life is what we all want,
Living a Holistic Life
00:16:12
Speaker
you know? And we live in a society that's taught us separateness, right? That's taught us we're separate from each other, we're separate from the earth, we're separate from the divine, and also that we're separate parts. Like, you know, on Sunday is when I do my holy thing for 30, 45 minutes in this building.
00:16:33
Speaker
and then the rest of the time I go to work and then I have my family and then I have this and it's all as opposed to this integration and this interconnectedness which I think we are all quite aware of and want to experience more in our day-to-day life.
00:16:52
Speaker
I think that's why the Mandalorian top spoke to me so much. It was like, this is the way. What's the way? And it isn't one size fits all. I think you have to find your own way to live a holistic life. I mean, owning that word in an integrated way of being like a whole self, being able to feel safe enough to be your whole self wherever you go.
00:17:21
Speaker
Absolutely. And also, you know, noticing that whether you call it a spiritual path or not, whether it's just a path of, of self understanding, self awareness, alignment, whatever you want to call it,
00:17:38
Speaker
that it involves some work and some understanding of who am I doing this for, right? So if I'm presenting myself a certain way in the world that is not actually aligned with who I am, you know, that's an opportunity to reflect and shift and say, actually, you know, huh, where am I my most authentic self?
00:18:09
Speaker
And how can I be me everywhere I go? Yeah, and what's in the way, lovingly looking at what is in the way of me feeling like I can be, because ultimately,
00:18:21
Speaker
it would appear like you can always be yourself. But then why? Why do I get weird around some people? Or why do I feel not comfortable expressing how I would? Why do I code switch? A lot of times I can speak for myself. It's survival.
00:18:39
Speaker
you know, feeling threatened in some way, whether it's early childhood trauma or just in the moment not feeling adequate enough or not feeling seen, you know, or not giving myself that, me not witnessing me in the way that I need to be witnessed in that moment.
00:19:02
Speaker
But there's a lot of things that can contribute to it, but I think the importance of seeking that, like how do you seek it? Absolutely. And also, but to recognize what precious information that is, right? What I mean by that is,
00:19:18
Speaker
You know, hey, I just left that party and I just feel a little uncomfortable with how I was presenting myself or how I was conversing or I feel I'm just noticing how insecure I was around that person and how much I resented that person. And so being so curious about like, I wonder what that's about.
00:19:39
Speaker
And that's such an opportunity to go within and to unpack that a little bit. And that that can be, oh my gosh, you can find treasure in there. Oh yeah, reflection, self-assessment, and checking in. I can honestly say my life really did start to shift when I, through guidance, through support, and you're one of those supports who helped me to see this, was like, hey, just check in with yourself.
Self-awareness vs. External Validation
00:20:07
Speaker
I use it as a tool now is where am I at? What am I feeling? How am I feeling? What do I need? You know, that those are not they sound like simple questions. And maybe for some people, this naturally happens or occurs. But for me, I know my upbringing. I wasn't checked in with.
00:20:33
Speaker
Or when I was young, I was told, you know, like, no, what you're feeling is not, you don't feel that I need you to feel a different way, or this isn't the way we do things. So it doesn't come naturally for me to like take a moment and, and pause and say like, wait, how do I really feel about this? Just an orientation to the present moment of what, what, where am I at? And what do I need? Yeah.
00:20:59
Speaker
Well, and I think some people are, that comes easier to some people than to others, you know? And it's interesting this wanting to cultivate that in yourself though, you know? And to realize, oh, this is important. And the more I can sit with this, the better I become at this naming of this sensation or this feeling or this emotion or this memory that comes up. I mean, they say knowledge is power and it's the darn truth. And it's like,
00:21:28
Speaker
Self-knowledge is huge power. Yeah, inner awareness. And that does bring me to kind of a question I wanted to ask you. I have come to you many times for inner sessions that you offer for spiritual advice. And I feel like what I've always walked away with is a deeper cultivation of my inner awareness.
00:21:52
Speaker
And the power of that has been so instrumental in me being able to not just change in a way that I want to be becoming the human, I want to be more, but also having a lot more compassion and grace for myself inside of that change. And so I would love to have you share about what it is that you do.
00:22:22
Speaker
because I've experienced it, but I'd love people to kind of get an introduction to that part of you as a secular chaplain and the services that you kind of offer. And you can start anywhere you want.
00:22:35
Speaker
Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah. So, as I said earlier, you know, got ordained as an interfaith minister so long ago.
Training in Spiritual Direction
00:22:45
Speaker
And right away was, you know, doing ceremonies and all these things over the years. And I was always just sort of curious about where it was leading me.
00:22:52
Speaker
And what started to happen was it was one on one work with people that really felt like my sweet spot, if you will. And so I decided to get more training in that. And I went to a wonderful training program called Stillpoint in Los Angeles and did a two year training there on the art of spiritual direction is what it's called. And
00:23:18
Speaker
spiritual direction is an ancient contemplative listening practice.
00:23:23
Speaker
So it's been around for centuries and a lot of people have benefited from time with the spiritual director. And it's interesting, you know, the word director is quite misunderstood because I'm not, it has coming from the theater. I'm in no way directing people and like forcing them around or anything. But what, what happens is as with me as a listener, right? I hold space and do deep listening. It's a deep listening practice.
00:23:52
Speaker
And it's different from therapy because it's not analytical.
00:23:55
Speaker
in any way, right? I can attest to that. Yeah. Yeah. So with my listening, with an evocative question I might ask, with a simple reframing of what's been shared, the directing part comes as I direct the person's attention to their own sources of wisdom and guidance, right? So I am somebody who's like saying, oh, let's direct over there, or I'm noticing this when you say this, or, huh, that's interesting.
00:24:25
Speaker
Even something as simple as, I notice that you look down every time you mention your father or whatever it is. So it can just be as simple as a noticing, right? And so in secular terms, I call myself an inner awareness coach because I work with atheists too. I come at it with no agenda. That's why I call myself a secular chaplain because a chaplain is a minister of presence. I really like that.
00:24:54
Speaker
term. And I think we're all called to be chaplains for one another, right? That's a term that I, a name that I like best in all the work that I do. That's, and I use the word secular because I truly have no dogma to share. I have no agenda. And, you know, all faiths welcome all doubts too, as my website says.
00:25:14
Speaker
So yeah, I offer traditional spiritual direction. And some people come to me for that. And they also offer soul sessions, which is what I call where there is a little more advising or it's a little looser, it's a little wilder than traditional spiritual direction.
00:25:31
Speaker
And then I offer discernment coaching, meaning sometimes people are just in a time of discernment and asking a big question about, do I do this? Do I do that? And if I can, you know, help people to
00:25:47
Speaker
understand where their own guidance is leading them. I put a lot of trust in my own inner compass and I really do my best to have a loving voice within myself. And I think that's one of the things I help people do is understand and trust their own inner compass and also to grow their capacity for self-love and compassion. Because I got to say, if the inside of our minds could be gentle places, the world would be
00:26:18
Speaker
a gentler place also. I agree with you. I've felt exactly what you're saying as experience. The gentler I am inside myself, the more expansive my life can be, the more productive I am. All of these things that I think society is trying to squeeze out of us from outside in. I feel like that inner clarity or inner peace does, and even in the smallest dosages,
00:26:47
Speaker
does really truly go a very long way in potency. It's very rich and it does have a lot of affects to it. That brings me to something else I found in your blog that, or I believe it was in your sub-stack actually. Liz has both a blog on her website you'll find and we'll put that in the
00:27:09
Speaker
Shona at secularchapelin.com, but also she has a wonderful substat called the Morton Train, which you can subscribe to and it's so good. I genuinely love it. I cleared out my inbox a while ago from all the bullshit that I had subscribed to in terms of newsletters and things that I just hoped I would read one day and never would.
00:27:32
Speaker
Definitely kept the Morton train because I was like, no, no, no, why not? When these come in, I thoroughly enjoy reading these and I get so much value from them. So thank you for that, Liz. And in that, you used the word, how do you say it? Melorism?
00:27:49
Speaker
Oh, I don't even know how to say it. I don't know how to say it a lot. Millerism? Millerism? Millerism? I should have looked it up and figured out how to pronounce it, but it's, you use the word, Millerism, M-E-L-I-O-R-I-S-M, and you wrote, is defined as the belief that the world can be made better by human effort.
00:28:12
Speaker
And I just, obviously that struck me because this is one of the founding beliefs that this podcast is going on, the hypothesis that we can make things better by making them better for ourselves.
Meliorism and Personal Change
00:28:30
Speaker
And so when you talked about helping people to have an inner voice that's
00:28:36
Speaker
you know, kinder and more compassionate and, and recognizing that that can ripple out and have have this bigger effect. I thought that that that word that I had never heard before was so fitting. I definitely believe that the world can be made better by human effort. And I recognize not everybody believes that but that was
00:29:01
Speaker
That was also a word I had never heard, which is probably why I don't even know how to say it, but I'm going to guess meliorism. And when I was struck by it and I saw the definition and I thought, oh, yes, that is a belief I have. And see, that goes back to this power of naming things, right? Oh, I just named a belief I have. You just named a belief you have, though we didn't even know we had. And I think to me, the importance of that belief now is, you know, we're coming out of a time where for centuries, I guess, so many people
00:29:33
Speaker
made that their God's responsibility, right? That the world can be made better if God allows it. We're waiting for God to do something. We're praying for God to do something. You know, there's this giving up of power in a way of our own personal power and our collective power and our loving power as humans, right? And so this idea of human effort, you know, I love that. David Orr has a great quote
00:30:00
Speaker
I'm sure I've used it in my blog because I love it so much. He says, hope is a verb with its shirt sleeves rolled up, right? So that Meliorism speaks to that, that as we are actively hoping for a better world, we got our shirt sleeves rolled up and we are helping to make a better world.
00:30:19
Speaker
God, that's such a great concept for this podcast too, because Issa and I talk a lot about this and I'm curious of your thoughts on it, of this idea of magical thinking and spiritual bypassing. And I can think it into existence or I can just kind of hold a crystal and it will be so and it gets a little out there. And part of me really does recognize the power of
00:30:46
Speaker
Those tools like crystals like the power of positive thinking is definitely a psychologically proven thing that can benefit you but then there's the effort and the action alongside of that that I think so many of us have that bias to action where we won't get up and Roll the sleeves up and go clean the dirt in our own internal landscapes, right? We we won't
00:31:14
Speaker
We want it to be, I want it to be easier. So when I have resistance, I'm like, oh no, I can't do it now because it's painful, it's hard, it's uncomfortable, it's whatever it is. It's such an important topic, this idea of spiritual bypassing, such an important topic.
00:31:32
Speaker
And I think one of the teachings of the divine feminine for me, which, as you know, is very, very important in my life and certainly on the topic of change, is this permission to hold contradiction, right? And so, yes, we are co-creators. Yes, we are
00:31:53
Speaker
agents of manifestation in this world absolutely we have powers that we do not even understand they are so mighty absolutely and we are human and we have subconscious beliefs and we have emotional patterns and we have resentments and we have traumas and we have heartbreaks and we have dysfunctions and challenges and all the all of it and we can't pretend that
00:32:23
Speaker
some of that doesn't exist. In my spiritual seeking, I remember sitting in seminars starting 20 years ago when I was really getting conscious about being a student of this
00:32:35
Speaker
And I remember being in the presence of some spiritual teachers where they were, to me, radiating rage, just radiating it. But they had a smile on their face. Welcome to this, my mama. And I was like, oh, man. For those of you who can't see, Liz just put on this crazy cult leader face. I was like, I am at one with everybody. And it's like, oh, no, you're not. You've got something to deal with. So yes.
00:33:05
Speaker
it's important as we recognize intention. And I think, you know,
00:33:11
Speaker
When we are sitting around in our rituals, and yeah, if some people use sacred items or sacred objects that they have declared sacred like a crystal or whatever it is, and you have an intention and you're doing some daydreams about something you really want in your life or a desire or something, well, then the next step is to notice what's coming up in resistance or a fear or the belief that can happen or I'm unworthy of that.
00:33:36
Speaker
or blah blah blah like keep going don't just let it stop with the daydream keep going and how can I how can I let that go oh that's something I need to heal in myself or you know
00:33:50
Speaker
That's what I mean by information from within. Keep excavating, right? Don't stop at the uncomfortable because there is an edge. There's this edge you can walk up with yourself of like, I want to feel this way and I'm going to stay positive and I'm going to hold this. But then if there's a denial happening within you around
00:34:13
Speaker
What is it that you actually feel though? What is the sensations of your body or what it's those incongruencies?
00:34:21
Speaker
that do deserve your attention and compassion or I can say for myself like when I started to pay attention that the whole again the holistic way that I felt was both hopeful and angry and the anger when I repressed it like you know because it's the more uncomfortable of the two
00:34:45
Speaker
Yeah. Would it doesn't go away, then I would just feel shame about the anger. And so when I started to get in touch with holding the contradictions and another friend of mine helping me recognize like, no, no, no, that's that's how you're actually feeling is you are angry. You know, you're angry that this doesn't come to you. You're angry that this is hard for you. You're angry that you don't have the tools to not be angry right now.
00:35:13
Speaker
And the second and third levels of that expression that was coming out of me to include that as, oh, that's actually how I feel. It's multilayered. It's three levels deep. But the three levels is actually the building that is me, you know, not just the first level, not just the first floor, because then I'm not actually interacting with me. I'm interacting with what I want
00:35:42
Speaker
the image of me to be and not actually where I'm at and what's going on in me. And it's okay that there's these multiple layers of contradicting or incongruent feelings and thoughts, but that's the whole picture of me. So I get to like,
00:36:00
Speaker
be with that because that's the starting point to which I can then start addressing, okay, well, how do I get to the first floor from this deep basement that I'm in? Yeah, but it's like the truth shall set you free, right? You know, it's like you got it. You got to tell the truth. You got to be like,
00:36:18
Speaker
Even though I really want to be feeling good right now, I actually have a lot of sadness in me right now. Okay. Okay. I'm gonna give that attention. I'm gonna honor that. Honor it. You taught me that because there's a difference between going into all the emotions. And I know for me, I experienced this where it's like,
00:36:40
Speaker
I don't want to be sad because when I'm sad, I'm sad. You know, someone who's really experienced depression and it's like, you don't, no one willingly goes in to be like a puddle of mush on the floor. But the honoring of it, that it doesn't necessarily have to overtake or even indulge it, but at least, again, witnessing and honoring it is that honest self-assessment and usually,
00:37:08
Speaker
addresses that inner child or inner voice, right? The inner critic that does probably need some attention of some kind, if not compassionate attention. But the ignoring of it is not helpful in my experience. Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting thinking about change too, right? Because I think a lot of times when we ignore these
00:37:36
Speaker
these things instead of honoring them or whatever, is that they can keep us stuck in our lives. And so if you think about emotion as movement, right?
00:37:49
Speaker
allowing them to move through. So it's not about keeping that emotion stuck. It's like letting it move out through and out, you know? Oh, yeah. And that there's so many things I want to go off and ask you about on that. But the one that's coming to me first is you taught me this and you have a Morton train sub stack about this, about the gift of and you wrote the gift of and makes room for deeper self-acceptance and greater compassion for others.
00:38:19
Speaker
One of the things I said in that blog too was that was, going back to my intro here, is this permission from myself to be not only an actor, because I was an actor in New York City and I'd been a theater major for high school and college and I was very devoted as an actor. And I kept getting called in these other ways. I remember it was like my inner compass said, you don't have to be only an actor to be an actor.
00:38:48
Speaker
and it was this permission, it was this and, like, oh, I could do this and something else, and something else. And we're very confining if we think, oh yeah, I'm just gonna have one job for the rest of my life, and you know, no, no, no. Some of us are called to do more than that. And the and also helps us to own our contradictions, right? Like I can be, you know, I'm sitting here in this podcast being like, hello, I'm a spiritual advisor, you know, I'm so, you know,
00:39:17
Speaker
I'm talking about these very serious subject matters. But I am also can be such a clown, right? I'm not somebody who thinks spiritual talk has to be all serious and stuff. You know, usually there's a good chuckle at any wedding or anything that I officiate. Laughter is carbonated holiness, as Anne Lamott says, right?
00:39:40
Speaker
So it's like holding these contradictions in me of just even in my day-to-day life, of being a total goofball one minute and then sitting down and holding space for someone while they ask the deepest questions of their lives in the next moment.
00:39:58
Speaker
We are all big enough to hold it up to just be at full capacity. So well said. So well said and important because a big part of this project is not taking ourselves too seriously.
00:40:13
Speaker
Because it all gets too rooted in ego, in my opinion, if we try to do that and we start stop being students. We stop feeling like we can learn. We start feeling like we have to know everything and and play and fun are wired.
00:40:35
Speaker
for us to learn at an accelerated rate. That is proven study after study. And if we can have fun while growing, while in these hard times, meaning where we can find the brevity in
00:40:55
Speaker
our experiences of heaviness talk about an end lightness and heaviness at the same time but i don't know if anyone else's experiences but have you ever been like so crushed by something and just on the floor again as a puddle of mush and then just kinda like throw your hands up in a gesture of and start to laugh and be like
00:41:15
Speaker
how can this be any worse? And just that very human, you know, you called them contradictions earlier. And I think, too, it's like when I started naming them contradictions, I realized, oh, these actually aren't contradictory at all. I've just labeled them contradictory. This is actually just me as my, you know, full kind of up and down
00:41:40
Speaker
self. And I think that we as women a lot of times will label ourselves, oh, I'm just crazy. You know, I've said that so many times and I've tried to curb that word for myself because it's not crazy. No, it's normal. It's normal.
00:41:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, to have the range of the human experience is normal. Absolutely. And to celebrate the range of the human experience. Yeah, of course. That makes me think of, in Steel Magnolias, the movie and the play, the Dolly Parton character says,
00:42:16
Speaker
uh, laughing through tears is my favorite emotion. That's it. That's what I was talking about. And so that's sort of that thing bubbling up after the catharsis, right? That, that lightness coming only after that, that willingness to, to dig something up by the roots. Yes. And catharsis, thank you for saying that because this is something
00:42:37
Speaker
that I'm not sure how people in regular life, meaning people who are not actors, understand this. Because there's all different kinds of acting, but the training of it requires you to
00:42:54
Speaker
deeply get in touch with different emotional set points within yourself and to not fake it, to not pretend it, but to actually go in and experience sometimes deeply uncomfortable things that are not necessarily your own, but also you have to connect to your own truth inside of those to find the truth of the script of the moment and
00:43:20
Speaker
Where I'm going with all of this is that when you said catharsis, I thought immediately to all of the different times when I was able to embrace the deepest rage or the deepest sadness or whatever the emotion is, the deepest elation, even excitement through the process of acting and how good it felt to feel that much.
00:43:49
Speaker
And it proved to be a training ground for me to then be able to do that and to be able to not be so scared to do that in life. So when I'm having these crises of spirit or crises of consciousness or mental crises or emotional crises in my life, that my body has been trained to be like, oh, this is okay, this discomfort,
00:44:15
Speaker
If I go in deeper and feel it more, there is a catharsis to this that I can trust. I will come out on the other end A and B, I will feel better for it.
00:44:28
Speaker
One of my blogs I wrote was called The Art of Listening because I feel like my listening practice started in acting class because how many 14 year olds, like 15, I'm this very serious theater student and I'm learning how to be in the moment and really listening to how somebody is saying a line of dialogue and just really tuning into that. But mainly it's that,
00:44:55
Speaker
being in the moment, you gotta be in the moment, you gotta be in the moment. That is just a refrain as an actor and listening to the audience, right?
Acting and Meditation
00:45:07
Speaker
And so that pursuit of acting, that curiosity about the human experiences, there's so many connections to being a seeker and to the work that I do as a chaplain.
00:45:20
Speaker
And is it right? Yes, right. And you talked about in your blog in that same blog post, you talked about when I'm in the moment, quote unquote, my mind quiets and something other than myself seems to take over.
00:45:34
Speaker
And I thought that that was so interesting because it sounds so parallel to a meditative experience or a spiritual experience, right? And then it comes from an art form because in a way, you know, spirituality is an art form. Being spiritual with yourself, being compassionate with yourself, being
00:45:58
Speaker
on the path of seeking or just being with life is an art form. I do want to talk to you so much about listening. Yeah, it's so powerful. It's so important. It's so important. Really, that's basically what I do and I have a session with anyone is deep listening. That's really what I do. That seems so simple, but it's not because it really is a focused attention and there's something that happens when
00:46:27
Speaker
The opportunity of being deeply listened to is ultimately an opportunity to listen to yourself in a way that can be profound and surprising, right? So I'm also holding space for people toward that other person to listen to themselves.
Transformative Listening
00:46:46
Speaker
And when you're listening without an agenda,
00:46:50
Speaker
without an urge to interrupt, without, you know, and to notice also what's my stuff and what's not my stuff, right? And to have that place where, you know, I'm not uncomfortable when emotions come up, you know, so that that's safe and offering a place of non-judgment.
00:47:07
Speaker
And I guess for me, as I am continuing to practice the art of listening, I am constantly learning how to continue to cultivate this inner peace and this quiet space within so that when I am holding space for someone else, I can truly, truly give them my undivided attention.
00:47:32
Speaker
Yeah, and I've experienced that to be true of you, meaning when you are present, you open up my permission and myself to be more present and to accept myself. When you come forward with me, and I can feel it, the non-judgment that allows me to give myself permission to not judge me.
00:48:02
Speaker
And that is safety. That is a step on the road. That is a stepping stone towards safety, for sure. And safety is such a foundation of doing spiritual work, quote unquote, right? But really of
00:48:24
Speaker
inner awareness work of change, safety. For me, again, going back to a belief I have, but I believe that safety is a keystone to change of an individual, of a human, and possibly of a society and bigger, I'm not sure. Well, because there's trust there, right? And also when we talk about safety, like feeling safe inside of myself.
00:48:51
Speaker
I want to feel safe in here. Right. And so with me as providing part of part of my role here, too, is to to be a loving witness for someone. Right. So as in a place of nonjudgment family, I'm also viewing you with the eyes of a loving witness, therefore giving you an opportunity to be a loving witness for yourself. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:49:15
Speaker
Oh, basically, I want to go line by line to this blog. So people just need to read this blog post. But I'm such a doe. I didn't write down the name of that blog. What is the name of that specific blog post? It's the art of listening, I think. It might have been the very first one I did. Yes. One of the reasons why it struck me as a part of the resources for this podcast about change is that you wrote
00:49:43
Speaker
listening requires a willingness to change, a willingness to be changed. And I think that was from Mark Neepo. Yes, to listen is to lean in softly with a willingness to be changed by what you hear.
00:49:59
Speaker
And that I think is such an incredible tool outwardly toward others. But when I turned it inward and thought, what would that mean that to listen to myself with a willingness
00:50:18
Speaker
to change to, especially as a recovering perfectionist and someone who has an inner critic, a really intense inner critic, I should say, to not just take that for granted to like, oh, you're so stupid. And then not just to be like, yes, I am so stupid.
00:50:35
Speaker
But to like witness and hear that and change my self-talk and like, oh, why would I call myself that? Like, is that true? Do I really feel that way? Is that something that I can hear and be willing to come up with a different response to that rather than, yeah, I am so stupid, you know? That feels like a tool. And again, you wrote it.
00:51:00
Speaker
Yeah. Well, absolutely, this willingness to listen to yourself. And I think about the power of radical self-acceptance, which changes us when we are able to really radically self-accept ourselves the way we are, exactly the way we are, and even accept where we are in our lives, right? I can't change my geographic location until I accept where I am in this moment, right?
00:51:27
Speaker
career or personal life or anything is like I'm accepting that I'm deeply unhappy in this marriage and I'm accepting that. That is my truth and now I can change something.
00:51:40
Speaker
So there's a lot of power in recognizing all that's going on inside and a power in acceptance, obviously. But changing one's perception of self, right? I think that's one of the keys to change that's so important that people don't tell you about is, oh, how you think about yourself is going to change.
00:52:03
Speaker
And you have to have a willingness to have that happen too, right? That's huge. You just said two really important pieces in my toolbox, which is radical self-acceptance. The radicalization of it is that it doesn't need to make sense. It doesn't need to have any root. It just can be.
00:52:26
Speaker
It can just, I'm a radical. I'm just going to do this and this is just what it's going to be. Because when you try to rationalize self-acceptance, that's when the inner critic can kick back in. That's when the patterning and the traumas can reinvigorize themselves because it's that like, oh yeah, I want to accept myself, but I didn't get that thing done. But I don't have this amount of money. But I don't have that job. But I'm not where I want to be. But I didn't, you know, whatever the butt is or the
00:52:54
Speaker
insertion of a reason, that's where you insert the word radical. Because you're like, well, it's a radical idea, but I'm doing also it's the all of it, right? It's the entirety of self acceptance, as opposed to, okay, I'm gonna accept this little part, and this little part, but this one like this part, you know, the radicalness of it being holistic and integrated.
00:53:18
Speaker
Yes, yes. And so radical self-acceptance, that term to radicalize yourself on behalf of yourself. And then this, what was it again? Letting your perception of self-change be willing to let yourself change. There's a good metaphor I have for that. And I think I might've even wrote about this in a blog is sometimes there's butterflies out in the world who still think of themselves as caterpillars.
00:53:48
Speaker
That's the human metaphor, right? So even though they've changed, even though they're a completely different being than they were before they went into that cocoon, they're still like, oh, look at me, I'm a caterpillar. And it's like, the world sees you as a butterfly, but you're still naming yourself and self-identifying as a caterpillar. So it's just an interesting, that's just an interesting metaphor.
00:54:13
Speaker
Oh, no, it's a great one. And thank you for saving that because I couldn't pull it out, which was the power of how we look at ourselves and the transient nature of that because we can be so strict or rigid with like, no, this is how I am. This is how it is. There's no other way that this can be.
00:54:36
Speaker
the more we age, the more life experience we have, we realize we change many times and in many ways. And then to have that grace of being like, even right now, what I think about myself, how I perceive myself, has that ability to once again shift and be different.
00:54:56
Speaker
And just that idea can open up so much space, so much room for change. Absolutely. And we are in the natural world, right? So I can look out the window right now and see trees that are a little more yellow than they were yesterday, right? And so it's like, yeah, I got yellow leaves in me and green leaves and everything.
00:55:15
Speaker
that we are always changing and that that is the natural way of things. And so what a relief, right? Oh, I'm just participating in the natural way of things by being my changing, ever-changing self, right? But this willingness to let not only me surprise me, but letting life surprise me.
00:55:36
Speaker
You know, sometimes we go into change, into periods of change where we don't have all the information yet. All I know is I'm driving across, like I did this in 2017, I'm driving across the country, I'm gonna live in LA, I don't know how long. I met this guy over email and I'm gonna sublet maybe for two months in his place. And I don't know, right? Now I see, okay, that was a three and a half year episode of my life, okay? But I didn't know.
00:56:06
Speaker
But that's like, okay, I'm willing to be surprised. All I know is I'm trusting. I am initiating change in my life. I'm feeling pulled in this direction and I'm going to trust it. Yeah. And the, what you're talking about is the unknown.
00:56:22
Speaker
being able to embrace the unknown, and I'd love to hear more from you of how you support people in embracing the unknown. Well, I guess befriending the unknown, right? Feeling safe in the unknown, you know? It's so hard for myself, I can say. In the past, I'm much better at it now, and I feel the power of it, but
00:56:44
Speaker
I definitely know a version of myself that was, and still is, terrified of the unknown in certain areas. It's less familiar, and you wrote about this, you know, being the less familiar. As we were talking about the power of naming, what happens when you can't name something? How can you expect yourself to feel safer on something that you can't name? There are so many names for the divine, and one name I like is
00:57:14
Speaker
great mystery, right?
Embracing the Unknown
00:57:17
Speaker
So if I was in a session with someone and Tim was talking about this unknown, this unknown, this unknown. Now, if I were to say, well, what if we called it the great mystery?
00:57:30
Speaker
And if that was part of the universe or the divine or the holy, and that you're part of the great mystery, and you yourself are a great mystery, that could maybe feel a little, I don't know, maybe a little safer, a little more loving than the unknown. Absolutely, and calling it
00:57:52
Speaker
the mysteries is an ancient word from Greek, from our original, you know, where we draw our roots back to civilization, you know, the Lucien mysteries. The mystery is the name of it, because the reality is we don't know. We don't know what's going to fucking happen. We just don't even know how my arms work. Like, I don't know. Right. But it's like,
00:58:21
Speaker
But if the reframe is, instead of this unknown where I'm flailing, I'm flailing, or the reframe could be, I'm held by mystery. Actually being held by it, I'm held up by it. I can lean into it. And I don't have to understand it in my little noggin. It's okay. It's safe to not understand in a logical way. It's safe, safe, even if I'm not.
00:58:49
Speaker
grasping totally what's going on right now in my life. Yeah, to reassure yourself that you are safe when things are, right, not fully in your control. Yeah. Because that is one of the most compounding falsities is that we have control. Absolutely. And that's the power of the serenity prayer, right? Help me to understand what I can control, what I can't, and the wisdom to know the difference, right?
00:59:19
Speaker
That's a beautiful question too, and a beautiful prayer. I agree. I love this conversation so much. It's just been a joy, joy, joy, joy to get to play like we always do, but now get to record it and share it out into the world with all of you listeners.
00:59:42
Speaker
Before I let you go, oh, we didn't talk about internal family systems today, but I would love to. I hope that we can schedule another time to do so because that work is incredible. And I would love to do a deep dive with you just about that work if you're open to it. Absolutely.
01:00:02
Speaker
Okay, good. Okay, yay. So, to let you go, before I let you go, I want to ask you a fun question, which is, what is your donut of choice? We talk about on this podcast, you know, we're gonna explore everything from neuroscience to donuts. And Issa has this really lovely philosophy of like, as a health coach, you know, you want water,
01:00:23
Speaker
And of course you need water and good food. You want water and donuts, right? It's like you get to have the balance. And I think that that's helpful. So what is your choice of donuts? Okay, well, here's the thing.
01:00:37
Speaker
I have a dairy and gluten intolerance now. So if you can present to me a dairy-free, gluten-free donut, that will be my choice. But when I could eat all that stuff, the donut I loved was I want the custard in the middle and I want the chocolate on the top.
01:00:59
Speaker
So good. So good. I mean, I'm going pure decadence there. Oh, I call you Liz as an endearment term. But Elizabeth Morton, this has been such a wonderful journey with you. I'm so grateful to be able to call you my friend and have you in my corner.
Finding More from Elizabeth Morton
01:01:21
Speaker
And we're going to include it in the show notes as well. But can you just tell people where they can find you, where they can
01:01:28
Speaker
book a session with you if they're interested or just to find out more about you and your writing and your ministry and your acting. Sure. Well, secularchapelin.com is the best hub to look. And there is a link to my Morton train sub stack on secularchapelin.com. But my blog is the Morton train.substack.com.
01:01:52
Speaker
Are you on social media? I'm on social media, Instagram, E-L-I-Z-M-O-R-T-2-2. E is more to do, right? So catchy. Yeah. So those are good places to find me.
01:02:06
Speaker
Oh, thank you, thank you. If you have any questions for Liz, she is open and lovely as you're hearing her now, so please do hit her up. And hopefully we'll get to hear from you again, Liz, when we go on a deeper, maybe tactical dive on internal family systems. That would be awesome, yeah. All to be continued. All right, thanks, Clan. OK, I think we did it. Listen, I don't know what we did, but we did it.
01:02:37
Speaker
Look, unattainable ideals are overrated. We're way more connected and deserving than society's false sense of separation dictates us to be. You're not just one person. You're enough. Your effort is enough, and change is possible. Question the standard that says otherwise, because what if almost is good enough? Just by tuning in, you're a part of our clan. Not in a cult way, though.
01:03:03
Speaker
We don't know how far this ripple can go, but we're going to keep showing up. And we'll never get to perfection, but we're all going to be okay if we let the process be the solution and we see the value in the attempt. Thanks for listening to another episode of the ripple affect. We're looking forward to exploring a different facet of change with you next Tuesday. Same time, same place, next week.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
01:03:27
Speaker
For show notes and additional resources, check out our website at rippleeffectpod.com. That's affect with an A. Kia ora has worked diligently to make our website interactive. Please visit it so it wasn't all for nothing. In all seriousness though, there's a ton of resources there.
01:03:45
Speaker
DM us directly at rippleeffectpod on Instagram and let us know what you liked about our show or any of your own ideas. We're really excited to hear from you. We value your feedback because it helps us make the pod better and it's our way of including you in our process. Okay, so ratings aren't the point of why we do this. We really want to make a change in the world.
01:04:08
Speaker
But in The Matrix, there are algorithms. So yeah, every single review we get helps the ripple go farther. To help us out, please take two seconds, find the ratings and review section on whatever platform you're listening from, click five stars, wink, wink, and leave a review. We know you're busy, so just saying hello or literally hi as the review helps us hack The Matrix. We sincerely appreciate it.
01:04:34
Speaker
If you want to become officially initiated into our clan, again, not in a cult-y way, hit the subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts. And as always, we're in it with you. Keep questioning. Stay curious. You got this clan. A special thank you, love and credit to the magnificent Mia Casasanta for this beautiful music you're listening to right now.