Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Part II : Ancient Wisdom Roots | A Kitchen Table Talk
85 Plays7 months ago
This episode of The Ripple Affect is the continuation of Episode #13, the exploration of cultural heritage and modern spiritual practices with your hosts Cheech and Nibby. If you haven’t listened to Episode #13, Part I: Ancient Wisdom Roots you may want to go back and start from the beginning of the conversation. Or, as Isa suggest in the intro (because she’s a monster*), just dive right in!
This episode delves into the hosts’ personal experiences with indigenous ceremonies, the role of psychedelics in traditional and contemporary spirituality, and the profound impact of these practices on their worldviews.
Learn how ancient rituals continue to offer insights, healing, and a sense of belonging in our fast-paced, modern world.
*Chiara thinks the way that Isa watches shows and listens to podcasts out of order is complete insanity, which doesn’t make her a monster, but is worth the footnote.
DM: @rippleaffectpod
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to The Ripple Affect Podcast
00:00:04
Speaker
You're listening to The Ripple Affect with your hosts Cheech and Nippy, a podcast that explores how individual change has the capacity to affect
Curiosity for Ancient Wisdom and Modern Knowledge
00:00:12
Speaker
the whole. From neuroscience to donuts, we're two sisters with a deep curiosity for ancient wisdom and modern knowledge, and we're obsessed with learning alongside you because we don't know. Let's dive in.
Continuing Ancient Wisdom Roots Discussion
00:00:27
Speaker
Hi, everyone. Issa here. So this week's episode is a continuation of our last kitchen table talk. It's titled Ancient Wisdom Roots. So if you haven't listened to that, you can go ahead and go back and start the conversation from the beginning. Or if you're like me and you watch shows out of order and you listen to podcasts at random and it drives your sister crazy, just jump right in.
Spiritual Outlook Shaped by Native American Church
00:00:53
Speaker
Okay, we came back from sipping on our drinks and taking a bathroom break. And on the break, you said something interesting, but I almost made you record and so I'm gonna make you say it now. No, I think
00:01:08
Speaker
What's most important is that these ways shaped us. Growing up in the Native American church had a big impact on who we are and the lens we see through and our spiritual connection to ourselves and something greater than ourselves.
Importance and Acceptance of Indigenous Ways
00:01:25
Speaker
And we're not First Nations people, but we have had many authentic experiences that really molded us and became part of our
00:01:38
Speaker
story and I'm proud. I'm proud of us and I'm proud that we live in a time that I'm hoping Indigenous ways are safe to talk about and are becoming more accepted and celebrated and that people want to know more and educate themselves more about them and
00:02:06
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's just of what I was saying on the break. I'm glad. Thank you for she's got like this embarrassed sheepish that wasn't supposed to be other. No, but I thought I thought it was important because I think not only is it the lens that we look out on and something that deeply had an impact, a positive impact on us and influence, but I think also it's it's important for our community to understand
00:02:33
Speaker
you know, our viewpoint and why I feel confident in my ability to contextualize spiritual experiences and to be able to connect or just my ability, because of that experience of prayer, that experience from when I was very young, to be able to open up to that greater, to that
Spiritual Experiences in Client Work
00:02:54
Speaker
all.
00:02:54
Speaker
you know, when I've studied wisdom out of the east of connect to the nothingness, I have a very rooted concept. And it's not a concept, it's a connection to, it's not an idea, it's an experience. And I utilize that when I work with my own clients, that reverence, that openheartedness, that humbleness, that love.
00:03:20
Speaker
you know, and that appreciation and that connection back to ancient ways. I feel that very real, you know, and I honor that and I take that very seriously, but I mean it in an honoring way, you know, and I am confident in that because I've experienced it many times and I
00:03:41
Speaker
I know that we're both sharing this as a way to help others contextualize for themselves and not be led astray by people who don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
Authentic vs Commercialized Spiritual Sources
00:03:56
Speaker
And I'm not saying I know what the fuck I'm talking about. I'm saying there are sources of information of ancient wisdom, of wisdom keepers that know the real deal and can point you in a good direction. And they're not going to point to your pockets.
00:04:10
Speaker
they're not gonna point to your money. They're gonna point you to help yourself. And that's a huge distinction that I get pretty fired up about when I feel like there's just kind of this commercialized nonsense. I think it's important to
00:04:29
Speaker
touch back on the fact that this is the lens that we are privileged to look through when we look at today's escape of modern spirituality and that just like some people grew up Christian going to church every Sunday, we grew up in the Native American church being taught Indigenous ways.
Cherishing Indigenous Experiences
00:04:51
Speaker
I think that it's important to say we're not authorities by any means on that, but it has been held close to our hearts and somewhat, you know, it's not something we share openly. I have a lot of friends who I've known a long time that don't know anything about that. They start coming out, guys. Yeah.
00:05:12
Speaker
a lot of times when I do come up against certain spiritual communities or ways or workshops or things being sold or marketed online, I can feel the the resonant difference between my experience of being almost like
00:05:34
Speaker
Just back to that felt sense of knowing what that feels like and knowing the reverence and the humor and the humbleness of what I consider to be the true essence of spirituality.
00:05:53
Speaker
And it's hard for me because a lot of times I just like keep it to myself. People start talking about spiritual stuff and I'm like, you know, OK, you know, like I don't I don't again, I don't think I'm an authority by any means, but I definitely have a good sense.
Genuine Spiritual Communities vs Cults
00:06:09
Speaker
And I think why we made that distinction so clearly that we don't want to become a cult is because we know the value of something that is created for somebody
00:06:23
Speaker
Something that's created for people to engage with, to have belonging with, to feel accepted in, to grow at their own pace in, to help themselves, to come together for a good reason in a good way and have a good outcome.
00:06:43
Speaker
And that's what is sold to you as a cult. We grew up in a organized indigenous way that did do a lot of those things. And I think that's where cults a lot of times will steal over those elements. And then at the end, really just turn into a high control group. They're not there to help you, they're there to control you.
00:07:09
Speaker
Why you know we have those same sentiments we want to help we want to be on the right, you know the quote-unquote right side but we want to be on the positive end of of helping people and of having community and having belonging and sharing ideas and and opening up dialogue and and making the world a better place for real if we can because
00:07:32
Speaker
If you're privileged enough to try, then I think you have the duty to
Navigating Modern Spiritual Practices
00:07:38
Speaker
try. For me, when I have the same as you, done a workshop, listened to a speaker, been in a spiritual, you know, group, I realized that because of my, my grounded background in ceremony and indigenous ways, I can walk into something and bring myself to it and go deep.
00:08:02
Speaker
Yeah, like you were talking about me in the Hindu temple. Oh yeah, we should say that. I don't know what you were referring to actually. I was referring to a story about how you went to a Buddhist temple and you were able to just
00:08:16
Speaker
just sit and meditate for a very long time, which is not everybody's experience. They can get fidgety. You can get your mind, you know, but you were able to just first time and just drop in and go do that. And I think it was like a couple hours or something to two hours or something like that. And you had shared with me. Yeah, I just wasn't.
00:08:35
Speaker
I mean, it was hard in the sense of like, yeah, I take focus, but I did it. I
Resonance Across Cultures
00:08:39
Speaker
could do it. And I guess people don't just do that their first time out. Yeah. And I think you're right. There is a common thread in all of that, right? I don't think that there's one way to access. No, I don't either. I don't. I don't think that. I hope that no one takes the way that I'm saying this is like, oh, the Native American church is the way.
00:08:57
Speaker
I don't, that is not it. This is not the Mandalorian. That is not it. What I'm saying is like, like those experience actually helped me go out and have deeper spiritual experiences wherever I am. And when I hear Nisargadatta, you know, ancient, I mean, sages out of India speak, there's a resonance to it that I go, oh, that's like that. That's like that. And it hits me in a deep place where I'm like, yes, I can trust this because that's like that.
00:09:22
Speaker
And there's places, I'll say, that I've experienced that as well, like going to different temples and going to different holy sites and even just random places in the forest where I'm like, oh, I
Inclusivity of Native American Church
00:09:34
Speaker
feel that. Well, OK, like it's here, you know, it's around or and it's a familiarity. And there is a common thread in that. And I think that is something that you and I both have is the respect.
00:09:47
Speaker
for that wherever it is regardless of what form it comes in or who is behind it or what is being you know what what's being said in the verbal sense you know there's that.
00:10:02
Speaker
There's non-bias. Yeah, there's non-bias because in the Native American church, there wasn't a judgment on, like you could bring anything in. You know, you could be a Buddhist and come in. You could have your Christian God and come in. You could have your Indian gods and come in. And you didn't have to adhere or convert or somehow leave any of that.
00:10:31
Speaker
you could utilize it and use this to also help.
Non-Judgmental Spiritual Upbringing
00:10:36
Speaker
And so that framework of openness and of non-judgmentalness and of aditiveness, inclusivity and additive, like here's also this that you can use.
00:10:50
Speaker
that felt, as far as organized religion goes, because through art history I have studied religions, like there's lots of dogma and lots of rules and lots of things that say this other thing is wrong. And I never heard that. Going to church, I never heard anything else was wrong. Like not ever once. No, never. I think that is, again, it's a powerful framework of how that shapes
00:11:17
Speaker
Like you said, how it shapes us and how we look out and kind of expect the world to be. And then I meet the world and I'm like, wow, you're really judgmental. People aren't connected and don't have respect and are willing to rip each other off and all kinds of crazy shit that you then deal with with the with the tools that you have and you navigate and you learn.
No Initiations Required in Ceremonies
00:11:37
Speaker
And anyway, so that was just the piece I wanted to share about that when I took from what you're saying. Yeah, it's really true that there's not there was nothing
00:11:47
Speaker
There's nothing you had to do. There is no like initiation. There's nothing required of you besides showing up and staying with it the whole night.
Guidance for Newcomers at Ceremonies
00:12:00
Speaker
Yeah. And I also mentioned, which I think is an interesting part is just that you didn't go in alone. Like you had a person.
00:12:10
Speaker
If you showed up alone, if you happened to find one of those ceremonies, which is weird, but it happened. I know I've known it happened and they assign you someone kind of, they're like, here, this is your sponsor. Like you sit next to a person who has been in there before.
00:12:26
Speaker
You didn't know, your face said that you didn't notice. So I do know this because I've had to sit next to somebody who didn't know what they were doing as a young person. I did too, but they, you don't. So, but here's, I'll just finish it. It's not like a sponsor like you have, but you do kind of help them. You know, you're like, okay, now we're doing this.
00:12:43
Speaker
And now you sit up on your knees. Now, you know, you walk them through the thing like, Oh no, you can't speak just yet. Like, or you can't, no, you can't go out on your head to ask. You kind of help them. So you're not just on your own, which I think is lovely. Cause it lets you have at least my perspective on is a safety a little bit where you're shown what's going on because I've walked into, um, services like Christian services and nobody explains me shit. And it's kind of obvious, you know, so whatever,
Misunderstanding Cultural Practices
00:13:09
Speaker
but also it's, you're kind of on your own. Yeah. Like.
00:13:12
Speaker
I remember one time, this is a super embarrassing story, and please forgive me if you're Catholic. I did not know what I just didn't know any better. Forgive her. She knows not much. She does. But I didn't know when we were in Guatemala, they were giving communion or no, not communion. They were giving the wafer.
00:13:29
Speaker
the body of Christ and I know what that is now but I was a young person and I don't know why this guy didn't mean and again like having a connection to spirit I guess you go up to get the waiver if you've had first communion that's you only go do that if you've had that and I had not been you know
00:13:47
Speaker
had first communion. I wasn't Catholic, but I was there and I just walked up. I was like, hey, this is what we're doing. And I, meaning I just felt compelled, like I want that body of Christ. I'm in, I deserve it. I'm worthy of it. I don't really even remember the thoughts that were going through my head, but I went up and no one stopped me either. And the priest gave me the wafer and looking back, I was like,
00:14:09
Speaker
I wasn't supposed to do that. And I felt bad because I didn't mean to disrespect or dishonor. I would have never crossed that line because again, I respect that. Well, there's an innocence of children as well. I think I was like 14, 15. You're so child.
00:14:24
Speaker
Yeah, still. But my point being, I didn't know because no one was there kind of telling you this is what is out. Yeah. Yeah. I remember sitting in Catholic services in Mass in Guatemala and I didn't speak Spanish when I was a kid. And so it was all in Spanish and Latin. And I remember just sitting in there forever. It felt like forever.
00:14:48
Speaker
And I love the smell of all the copal they would burn in the different incense. Besides that, I was so bored. I've heard that often. And that's interesting you say that because that's something that the friend that I was talking to asked, well, what do you do? And I was like, oh, there's always something
Learning Attention in Ceremonies
00:15:08
Speaker
to do. There's always something going on, meaning something to pay attention to. And you kind of learn that in the Native American church. I mean, like you learn to pay attention.
00:15:17
Speaker
again, the wandering mind, but if you pay attention, you're like, oh, they're doing this, they're sweeping that over there, and now they're getting the instruments out here, and now they're getting ready to pray there, do this, and there's always something moving, you know? Because there is, there's the things that you have to get through to get to the end.
00:15:37
Speaker
You know, there's a whole sequence. Exactly. Process and ritual. And a process and a ritual that is very purposeful and very intentional. Well, I think too, the natural elements are, for me, I will never be bored when there's a fire in front of me. I'll never be bored when there's live instruments and people singing around me. That's just not, you know, when I'm getting to sit on the ground and
00:16:05
Speaker
be you know in a space that's natural canvas around me there's something to that that I don't think I could be bored. Yeah and that's you like your connection to the elements right um but I think that that's also a trained mind those things are like ingrained to be of interest of soothing of
00:16:27
Speaker
Comfort of intrigue. Intrigue, yeah, for sure. That's a good point. What do you think the one thing that you really took or take from the Native American church? I think it's the power of prayer, the power of expressing myself.
00:16:47
Speaker
through that really, like I said earlier, open. But when I say prayer, when I learned this sitting up in meetings, it's like the ability to really be truthful, open.
00:17:03
Speaker
honest. And for me, that came from the safety of that place and the non-judgment and that opportunity to
The Power of Prayer in Native Ceremonies
00:17:14
Speaker
express myself to creator and to ask in a good way, whatever it was that I needed or what I was going through or what I, you know, just that kind of, again, humbleness
00:17:27
Speaker
but to call that power and feel it inside myself, to really feel that connection, not just to the words coming out, but that energy with the words and to feel that over and over again and to feel that
00:17:41
Speaker
sense of emotion and, I just use the word again, but connection. What's nice about that is that's what I take outside. I don't have to be inside the teepee to feel that. It enhances it, I think.
00:17:59
Speaker
and I can use tools to enhance that. You know, I can sit in front of the fire, I can burn a little cedar, or I can sit in front of a tree in nature, or I can, you know, the communion of it, to commune with myself in front of that majesty, or with that mystery, with that peace that I feel connected to that's bigger than me, and feel like I have a relationship to that, like a direct relationship.
00:18:29
Speaker
and no one can take that from me, no one can
Comfort and Connection through Prayer
00:18:31
Speaker
mess with that. That's very intimate, it's very personal. That has helped me in my life. When I felt really down and out, when I felt really lost, when I felt, and unfortunately it's kinda like when I get the most freaked out is when I like find myself praying. Because I don't know what else to, not that I don't know, no, it's not that I don't know what else to do. It's that something in me clicks on and I go,
00:18:57
Speaker
I know what to do. I know what to do. And it does help because it does, for me, I know the similarity now. It puts me into a parasympathetic state. It moves my nervous system into feeling held and safe and heard and seen and all those things that I need.
Praying for Others
00:19:19
Speaker
and it's really comforting and it's really caring. I also really believe in the power of prayer because I can't explain it, but I do feel a sense, not my senses, my taste, touch, smell, but a perception that when I put my whole body and my mind and my
00:19:40
Speaker
heart in that way, in that positioning, in that focus, and I pray for someone else, I do feel, I believe, and I've never said this really out loud except for one other person, I really do feel that it impacts, that it makes that difference. And I felt it come to me. Like earlier talking before we started recording, how certain people, when they say they pray for you, you're like, yeah.
00:20:06
Speaker
Yeah, I can feel that. I know that. I know that it means something. You know, there's an impact there and other people pray for you. I don't feel it when they say that means nothing to me. Yeah. And it means nothing to them. You know, you can kind of sense it. I'm intuitive. Like I don't, you don't, you don't, not that you don't mean it, but you don't mean it. Kind of. But, but so I have that real takeaway, I think is.
Connecting with Natural Elements
00:20:28
Speaker
Like you said, the elements, the connection to the elements and the power, just the power of prayer. What's your most significant observation about the native ceremonies and experiencing them?
Equality in Ceremonies
00:20:45
Speaker
I think it's that we're all instruments, that there's not a hierarchy of impact and value. It takes every single person in a meeting to make it what it is. The person that's never been in there and knows nothing has just as much value to that service as the person who's running the service.
00:21:10
Speaker
from the doorway into the doorway out. And that we're all instruments and there's a really harmonious thing that can be made when we all tune in together.
Voluntary Participation in Ceremonies
00:21:22
Speaker
Yeah, that's sweet. Yeah, I think that's my observation. I think that that is also physicalized inside the ceremony and that every single person is sitting on the ground.
00:21:35
Speaker
in a circle around the fire. Everyone touches the staff as it goes around with the instruments. Everyone needs to touch it and pass it and move it along. Everyone has access, you know, to that sacred medicine. Everyone gets to take that sacred tobacco if they want it or not.
00:21:52
Speaker
Yeah, you don't have to partake in eating medicine and taking smokes and singing and any of it. You don't have to do any of it. It's that autonomous. But you are still a valuable instrument in that service. You are still a part and in a valued part of what is supposed to happen there. And I think
00:22:13
Speaker
That's why you can't just leave and not come back. Yeah, during the actual ceremony. You can only go to one meeting and never come back again. You're not in for life or anything like that.
Collective Contribution in Ceremonies
00:22:25
Speaker
But there's something that is automatically created by communion, by coming together in that way for a singular purpose.
00:22:40
Speaker
And because of your value, and your value as in just by being you and choosing to put energy into the prayer service and the reason that it's happening, you receive so much back.
Blessings from Ceremonies
00:22:58
Speaker
And it's not on like a tangible material level, but there's like when people say like blessings, I understand what that means. And those are such like sweet, if you can imagine the highest intention, sweetest prayer your grandmother could ever say for you when you were a baby.
00:23:22
Speaker
You know, if she was just trying to set you up with all the love in her heart to have the most beautiful, wonderful, charmed, healthy life, that is what the frequency of what comes back to you when you, like you said, like you expressed really well, like open your heart, be vulnerable.
00:23:42
Speaker
make that connection to yourself and be in service to somebody else and some other thing outside of yourself and know that you're safe to do that. That's what comes back. And that's a piece that I think goes back to the beginning where we started all this is like, one of the reasons why it feels so safe is because when I watched those native men, the officers is how we refer to them of like the road men.
Trust in Ceremonial Leadership
00:24:10
Speaker
and his fire keepers, firemen and the cedarmen, the one that holds the cedar and the drummer, like those four positions and the doorman, like those officer positions. When I was growing up, they were all native people for the most part, and they knew what they were doing. I mean, you could tell someone was in control, meaning like, no, they got it.
00:24:37
Speaker
Anything could happen in there and they were going to take care of it in a good way. They didn't need to dominate. They didn't need to be mean or cruel ever. It was a caring, loving way that they took care of every single person in the teepee and the service. And I think that that felt safe. I could trust that.
00:24:59
Speaker
that no matter what happened and some things did, you know, I've been in services where things got a little, a little hectic and they were always able to bring it back in a good way. Like I said, like that demeanor. Well, there's like a trust. There's such a deep trust. That's what's there is to talk about faith. Faith is like believing that something's going to happen even when
00:25:24
Speaker
There's no evidence that it will happen, right? But like trust is something that is built. Those officers and it's almost like like peyote and creator have such a strong trust bond that there is a care being taken. You can trust that.
00:25:44
Speaker
Yeah, when you follow these ways and interact with this thing, you can trust it and it all can get cleared. It's like you can't really get it wrong.
Adaptability in Ceremonial Practices
00:25:52
Speaker
There's there's clear ways to do it well. But if something messes up in there, something gets crisscrossed or you don't quite say something doesn't go in order, you can go back.
00:26:04
Speaker
There's a flexibility to it that I've learned, that I've seen that's really important and really seems very ancient. And it's that, you know, you said trust, it's like, it goes into that knowledge place, that place where it's a deep knowing that does get built from when I think of those road men.
Tradition in Native Ceremonies
00:26:26
Speaker
They were going to, from the time they were really little, going to so many meetings,
00:26:31
Speaker
traveling around the exposure to those ways from the older older people to from their grandparents teaching them.
00:26:40
Speaker
these traditions and this way, they know it in a way that non, if you didn't grow up that way, it's like anything, it's like the 10,000 hours, but it's being in front of spirit, in front of creator and that plant medicine over and over and over again, that that's inside them, that's in their DNA, that's in their neurobiology.
00:27:04
Speaker
Yeah. It makes me proud of like how I came into this world to know that, to feel that, you know, like not being, like not having that experience, not being indigenous in that way, but like knowing that that medicine has always been part of me. Yeah, I am too. I am too. It's like, makes me feel like just, I know I can trust that, you know?
00:27:27
Speaker
Yeah, and for me, it's a foundation. You had said you hadn't been as your adult person back to too many meetings. And I haven't either, not as many as when we were young, but I have.
Reconnecting through Ceremonies
00:27:40
Speaker
And when I was sharing with that friend, I remember saying, what's nice about it is that if you didn't need it, it's there for you. And when you go back, when you go into a TB service after a long time, it is like a refresher and it is like a,
00:27:56
Speaker
a connection point where all those other meanings, all those experiences that you've been describing, that it's there for you to pick back up. When I come out of that service, I'm like, ah, I feel that's familiar. Yeah. And it feels like it did something. That's the, I don't know what we did, but we did it because it's like, yeah, something happened. Something happened there. Like that's,
Closing Rituals and Accomplishment
00:28:20
Speaker
I don't know. But sometimes it is like beyond your knowing. Yes. And that's why we say it. Yeah.
00:28:26
Speaker
Because it's like, I don't know what we did, but you can feel it. We did it. And you look around everybody's eyes and you can see like, oh yeah. You walk around and after you get out of the service, you out of the teepee, everybody walks out in order. Meaning like from where you are positioned in the teepee, go out. Single file. Single file in a clockwise direction.
00:28:49
Speaker
When you come out of the TV, you say good morning to everybody, you know? And you shake their hand or you dress them and give them a hug. And there's that collective thing of like, oh, we did something, you know? And also, and we don't know what we did, but we feel good. Yeah. And the cool thing about that is like the resonance. Yeah. Sometimes I think someone could just go to one meeting and have it affect their whole life.
Enduring Love from Spiritual Experiences
00:29:15
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know what that's like, but I've heard someone say it. So yeah, I think so too, because that's how that was with me and that psilocybin journey too. I could have just done that one time. But I know that it was profoundly affected by having had done ceremony before and getting that much out of it. I think that that is a strong residence of love. And that can get, sound really
00:29:38
Speaker
Like we make fun because we grew up with real hippies. So it can sound like, oh, it sounds so hippie, like peace and love. But what those words mean for real? To try to cultivate that inside yourself and cultivate it with another, meaning a community member or a family member. Peace and love.
00:30:00
Speaker
feel those vibrations. It is a high, it is a high that is grounding too. Yeah, I'd like to anchor those into my life and into my daily life and intentions. It's a good reminder because those elements are so simple and so powerful.
Creating Peace and Love Daily
00:30:18
Speaker
knowing that we have agency to create those states and cultivate those states just in our bodies, in our personhood, in our minds, in our daily interactions. That's where the practice comes into play. And noticing where, sometimes it's easier to point out where there is no peace. Like, oh, that doesn't bring me peace. That brings me agitation. That brings me chaos. That brings me, that doesn't feel like love. That feels like judgment. That feels like hate.
00:30:47
Speaker
And as a brown person in this country, in the United States, I know I can feel those microaggressions and those racist things or those judgmental
Building Resilience through Love
00:31:00
Speaker
things. As a woman, you can feel those things come in. And it is a matter of how do you maintain resilience? How do you stay true to your spirit? Know that you're loved.
00:31:12
Speaker
when you don't get that job and you know why, you know, you're hard and out because there's a systemic thing going on, you know, that's really hard to overcome. But like you said, that cultivation is a part of the resilience. That is why the revolution in this country of the 60s was revolutionary because love is
00:31:34
Speaker
all you need, the Beatles. It can get worn out as just a song, but that is a powerful mantra to return back to. And it is a current in many, many world religions and many, many, many sages and many, many teachings. It does come back to that. That is a consistent thread that I see. We interrupt this broadcast to bring you some breaking news.
00:32:04
Speaker
Issa here. You may or may not have noticed that we've been off the air for some time now. The reason? He oughta got tired of editing and had live things to do. So we will be offering Patreon in the future to help us cover costs of an editor so we can keep these messages coming to you every week.
Support Through Patreon and Donations
00:32:24
Speaker
In the meantime, feel free to be so kind and donate directly through our Instagram link to help us fund this project. In other news, if you would like to be a sponsor and have your message of your business in this space, feel free to fill out our sponsorship program document or simply reach out to Kia ora. Okay, that's it for the news. Back to your regularly scheduled program.
00:32:56
Speaker
I wanted to ask you about something.
Women's Role in Sacred Practices
00:32:58
Speaker
You mentioned when we were on the back deck a while back, you mentioned, I think it was a book you were reading about how the information was passed down and held by women and how psychedelics and natural medicines were the access point to these sacred ways. Can you talk a little bit more about that? The book you're talking about is The Immortality Key. Okay. Bye.
00:33:23
Speaker
It's okay, I can show-note it. No, no, no. Search that up, Jamie. Yeah, right? Where's our Jamie? Does anyone want to be our Jamie? Does not everybody know what we're talking about? I mean, it's the biggest podcast known to man. I'm pretty sure everybody knows what we're talking about. Say it anyway. Give him a shout out. Joe? Are we talking about Joe? Yeah. Yes, yes.
Joe Rogan Mentioned Humorously
00:33:42
Speaker
We the other day counted and I were mentioning Joe Rogan and oh, I said Joe just like, like we know him.
00:33:49
Speaker
What was it, Joe? Did Joe say that? Our buddy Joe? He's a household name. That's what it's like. It's like Walter Cronkite back in the day. Walt. Nobody's calling him Walt though. Hey yo, Walt. Oh God. Immortality Key, the secret history of the religion with no name by Brian C.
Suppression of Women's Wisdom
00:34:13
Speaker
Mararescu. Mararescu, I think.
00:34:17
Speaker
Look him up. Sorry, Brian. She just slayed your name. I should have looked at it. With a name like Kiara, you'd think she'd give us a little room. Oh, come on. Give me a little room. I'm sure he understands. Well, I don't know if he understands, but I have huge respect for him.
00:34:32
Speaker
and his book, I kind of do, I have a scholarly crush on him. His book reads like the Da Vinci Code, but I want to give a shout out to Connor, my nephew, because the way he broke this down to me and said, hey, I think you should read this book was so eloquent and wonderful and I'm not going to do as good a job, but I'll try.
00:34:51
Speaker
because I do care about this book and spreading it, but I was talking to you about this because it blew my mind. It made me very angry. In fact, the systematic way in which the Catholic Church had incrementally removed women through the inquisitions, like later the witch trials, to eliminate
00:35:13
Speaker
the role, the sacred role of women caretaking what he attempts to prove in the book being these psychedelic and ceremonial ritualized ways of access to internal knowledge. And to say it a little more clearly, basically he goes through in the book, again, like this Da Vinci Code style book in real life, investigative journalism,
00:35:36
Speaker
of getting access to the secret archives at the Vatican and the main people who look over the site where the Elysian Mysteries were supposedly held, which is a ceremony with this drink that they don't know what it is historically, but now with- Can you say it right?
00:35:55
Speaker
Am I not saying it right? Drank. Oh stop. It's getting to that hour where Aces is starting to go and get up. What are you even doing? Okay, but this drink that drank that...
Psychedelics in Ancient Ceremonies
00:36:12
Speaker
that was written about that they don't know what's in it, but with archaeobotany and archaeobiology, they're being able to test what was in some of these pots and finding residues of ergot in many different concoctions, meaning many different types of herbs that come together to what he's trying to prove it was psychedelic. And it did give access to the parts of the mind that psychedelics that we're familiar with now do.
00:36:41
Speaker
plant medicines, like we were talking about, who was in charge of knowing how to mix these mixtures and knowing the rights, meaning the rituals that go along with these mixtures to help people. And people sought it from all over. And this is the birthplace of Greek knowledge is women. Imagine that.
00:37:08
Speaker
And at the very end of the book, it was a really impactful part. I think it was in one of the epilogues. And he talked about how it continues. And he mentioned the Native people in this country. He was like, with Peyote, it continues with Maria Sabina. That's her name. Maria Sabina with Silas Eidman. And it continues.
Endurance of Sacred Practices
00:37:28
Speaker
It is, that is the religion. That is the oldest thing that we knew that was there, that is being now proven. But that's what it was. And that it existed without a name, you know, for so long. And it was women who were the ones who carried it out and were responsible for that. And they were given that. And that
00:37:52
Speaker
It survives, but it won't die. It's still there. That was the thing, even though they systematically tried to dismantle the practice of it and the carriers of the knowledge of it and the
00:38:07
Speaker
everything about it, they tried to stamp it out, but it prevailed. It prevailed and it is this window into different states of consciousness that you can't access and that quicker access through plants, through plant medicine.
00:38:24
Speaker
And I honestly, I do believe that it's not harmful to the church. I have so many friends who are such wonderful Christians, you know, who just are so dope and really do follow the teachings of Jesus. And so many Jewish, you know, people who are so, like we've been talking about all day, connected, man, like, get it.
00:38:49
Speaker
And utilize their religion's practice and teaching to deepen their connection to their higher powers. Exactly. And it's beautiful. For me, reading this book, it was like I wanted to sit down with my Christian friends. It shows the roots of Christianity and it's to celebrate women inside of it.
00:39:12
Speaker
and to just watch how the structure, the man-made structure of the Catholicism, of the church, of power and money, or whatever the thing was.
00:39:24
Speaker
systematically took the ceremonies and took the Eucharist, which is the drinking of the body and the blood of Christ, sorry, drinking of the blood of Christ and eating the body of Christ, took what used to be this drink and the body of the mushroom or whatever, and twisted it into a non-experience, meaning a foe experience, meaning this is the symbolism of it. But his book goes into how early Christians
00:39:55
Speaker
actually, no, they were having an experience, a real experience with their own mind guided by these women. And there are ancient scholars that write about it as like the most important thing for humanity. You know, the thing without this, humanity will crumble.
00:40:15
Speaker
And the Catholic Church hijacks that and says, no, it's the church. It's the ritual, the teaching, whatever, for power and control, in my opinion. So it just made me angry again that once again women were being
00:40:30
Speaker
murdered were being taken out of these positions and then to disempowered exactly and then to that this the sacred medicines were written out of the story and then demified the the backwardness of it so I don't think it takes anything away from Christianity and he
00:40:51
Speaker
It goes into the story of Jesus.
Christian and Greek Ritual Connections
00:40:54
Speaker
There's so many clear connections to what Jesus was written about and how Dionysus, the god of wine, and the rituals around him were the Ulyssian mysteries, were all these rituals and rites.
00:41:06
Speaker
that there's a direct line of the Bible being written in Greek for certain populations at the time. And they would have clearly known these connections. Oh, he's talking about Jesus, but he's talking about Dionysus. It's the same ritual, same thing. Oh yeah, I know that. I know that. And that being able to attract a lot of early Christians. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Of course, I want the Ulyssian mystery. I don't have to go to Greece. I can have it in my house. Or like I can... Okay, sure. And then having real experiences that were profound, seeing God.
00:41:36
Speaker
having a relationship, feeling that love. I just think it's a profoundly impactful book. I really hope people can listen to it, you know, read it, whatever, because the resources on it, the way it's cited is so well done. And the name again? The Immortality Key. Yeah.
00:41:57
Speaker
I want to read it. I would love for
Impact of Suppression on Women's Roles
00:42:00
Speaker
you too. For me, it stirred up, like I said, anger and frustration, but also if I'm being really honest, I felt like healed in a way. I am carrying on a really important lineage by utilizing this medicine in a good way.
00:42:15
Speaker
I am connected to this. This is a part of our collective ancestry. You know, and I'm not advocating like everyone needs to go do drugs, obviously not. But I am saying what these mysteries are held, you know, how they're held and how you can have access to them and how if you need them, like you were saying earlier, you don't need it. Yeah, you don't need it.
00:42:38
Speaker
But if you do feel like you need something that it's been there for us for so long, I just felt like he really illuminated how it got quote unquote lost, but not really.
Microdosing for Mental Health
00:42:53
Speaker
I think it's cool that the person that I connected you with for your microdosing is a female. I like that. Yeah, and I was going to mention microdosing. I couldn't remember if I'd mentioned it on the pod before, but that was the medicine I turned to medicinally, medically, to help me with depression and anxiety, microdosing psilocybin, and it really helped me.
00:43:20
Speaker
I'm very interested in doing the larger macro doses in a therapeutic session because I feel like it can shortcut sure but more importantly magnify how far and deep and insightful I can be with myself and to grow and to actually shift and change and on an early
00:43:39
Speaker
conversation, but one of the more recent episodes we released, we talked about how to change your mind. That film series on Netflix that goes into that, the journey with the microdosing for me felt
00:43:54
Speaker
a little conflicted,
Guidance in Microdosing
00:43:55
Speaker
right? Because there's this illegality of it. And because of that, the unregulated of it, and am I doing this right? I went to the person you recommended and felt like there was guidance there and knowledge there. Just learning about it was important to me, even though I had experience on my own, like I said, been familiar with that, that as a recreational practice and then even in ceremony, but I wanted
00:44:14
Speaker
The therapeutics are different. Different, they are. Different application. But in taking it and then having to read this book, I just felt more confirmed, like affirmed. I can trust this. I already knew it. I already knew it. And luckily the way the protocol for me, the woman gave me was, yeah, you do.
00:44:32
Speaker
do it with intention. You take your little capsule, and for me, I look at it, I hold it in my hand. I engage that system in myself of prayer, of ceremony, and I ask for it. I ask for it to help me with what I need it for that day and overall, and I take it with intention. I do think that that really matters with the way that it has helped me. I'm not just popping a pill and moving on with my day.
Respecting Plant Medicine
00:45:00
Speaker
Yeah, I think that all plant medicine requires the co-creative experience and that our intentions and setting are extremely important when interacting with any plant medicine. Yeah, and it makes a difference for the magnitude of the experience. But also, you don't fuck around, like, sorry, but like, this is something like, you don't just go fuck around with that stuff. It will, it can like,
00:45:29
Speaker
It can fuck back with you, meaning if you're not intentional, it can spin you out and rub you the wrong way because it's like, what are you doing? It has its own, you said this earlier, it has its own spirit. It has its own intelligence. And it's important to respect it, I believe, and it's important to understand what you're dealing with, you know? What are you interacting with, like any relationship?
00:45:55
Speaker
You just just go into a relationship. We've all done that and it ends badly. Meaning like, I don't know who you are. I don't know. Let's just go and whatever. It doesn't always end badly, but it's more beneficial to know the person, get to know them, know yourself, know what you're going to go into. And it's more higher probability of it turning out good for you. Yeah.
00:46:14
Speaker
Yeah, do your due diligence for sure. I think that's a very important message and interacting with any plant medicine or just any substance, anything, any group, any ceremony, person, place or thing, any noun.
00:46:31
Speaker
All right, sister. Was there anything to close on? I think that overall, that ancient knowledge part is really intriguing to me as always. That's something we definitely want to continue to touch on in different ways. And just starting here with our upbringing and our exposure and our individual experiences with, you know, the ancient indigenous ways and
00:46:58
Speaker
also knowing there's a lot of them that...
00:47:00
Speaker
we still are exploring and learning and want to continue to bring on this podcast. Cause I think the origin of things is important to us. And I think that's something that we're both intrigued to do, but also willing to do out of a service to everybody to know where are these teachings coming from?
Ancient Teachings Today
00:47:20
Speaker
What are the earliest ones and what's the, how can those help us now bringing that value to the table of
00:47:28
Speaker
Not the new age version, but let's go back and see where this this idea started and the roots of it and Who was teaching it and what might have got lost and what might have got lost? Yeah, I think that that's that's something that I'd like to continue to do for myself because I want to know the original versions I want to know the
00:47:50
Speaker
you know, stories and just the ways of our ancestors because I think there's a lot of value in what's come before us. We want to learn from history. We want to take the good and take the helpful and
00:48:06
Speaker
continue to learn about it, integrate it, and pass it on. Yeah, because as much as things with modern technology and just modernism in general, things change so fast, that's not necessarily a bad thing at all. And to keep your bearings, I think it's helpful to have these things that have endured
00:48:30
Speaker
these things that have endured because of the truth, the truth to them, you know? And the usefulness. Yeah, and the way that they can help and resonate the cross-section of it, like how that one is similar to this one is similar to that.
Valuing Ancient Truths
00:48:47
Speaker
They're all kind of saying the same thing that says something. And I too, like,
00:48:52
Speaker
We could, we need a lot of help. I'll take all the help I can get. That's what I'm saying. Like the faster things move and the quicker things progress, what I notice is the benefit of slowing down. Yeah. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Navy SEALs. Yeah. Can I say that in moto? Go slow to go fast. Yeah. Okay. I think it's time. All right. That's Nugget saying it's time to wrap it up. Love y'all. Take care.
Final Remarks on Connection and Change
00:49:20
Speaker
Okay, I think we did it. Listen.
00:49:25
Speaker
I don't know what we did, but we did it. Look, unattainable ideals are overrated. We're way more connected and deserving than society's false sense of separation dictates us to be. You're not just one person, you're enough. Your effort is enough and change is possible. Question the standard that says otherwise because what if almost is good enough? Just by tuning in, you're a part of our clan.
00:49:54
Speaker
Not in a call-to-way though. We don't know how far this ripple can go, but we're going to keep showing up. And we'll never get to perfection, but we're all going to be okay if we let the process be the solution and we see the value in the attempt.
00:50:09
Speaker
Thanks for listening to another episode of the Ripple Affect.
Podcast Website and Resources
00:50:13
Speaker
We're looking forward to exploring a different facet of change with you next Tuesday. Same time, same place, next week. For show notes and additional resources, check out our website at rippleeffectpod.com. That's affect with an A. Kia ora has worked diligently to make our website interactive.
00:50:31
Speaker
Please visit it so it wasn't all for nothing. In all seriousness though, there's a ton of resources there. DM us directly at rippleeffectpod on Instagram and let us know what you liked about our show or any of your own ideas.
Inviting Listener Feedback
00:50:45
Speaker
We're really excited to hear from you. We value your feedback because it helps us make the pod better and it's our way of including you in our process.
00:50:54
Speaker
Okay, so ratings aren't the point of why we do this. We really want to make a change in the world. But in The Matrix, there are algorithms. So yeah, every single review we get helps the ripple go farther. To help us out, please take two seconds, find the ratings and review section on whatever platform you're listening from, click five stars, wink, wink.
Encouraging Listener Reviews
00:51:17
Speaker
and leave a review. We know you're busy, so just saying hello or literally hi as the review helps us hack the matrix. We sincerely appreciate it. If you want to become officially initiated into our clan, again, not in a cult-y way, hit the subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts. And as always, we're in it with you. Keep questioning. Stay curious. You got this, clan.
00:51:45
Speaker
A special thank you, love and credit to the magnificent Mia Casasanta for this beautiful music you're listening to right now.