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45. Near Death Experience with Bill Letson
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In this week’s episode, we welcome Bill Letson to the show. In 1994, Bill had a profound near death experience as a result of an illness related to his work as a firefighter. Since then, Bill has been traveling around the world, and the internet telling his story at conferences, events, and on podcasts. He’s been a frequent presenter at the International Association For Near-Death Studies and has put together some comprehensive material along with an upcoming book on NDE’s.
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Music By Nathan Willis RIP
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Transcript
Introduction and Background
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Pursuit of Infinity. In this week's episode, we welcome Bill Lettson to the show. In 1994, Bill had a profound near-death experience as a result of an illness related to his work as a firefighter. Since then, Bill has been traveling around the world and the internet telling his story at conferences, events, and on podcasts.
00:00:23
Speaker
He's been a frequent presenter at the International Association for Near-Death Studies and has put together some comprehensive material along with an upcoming book on NDEs. I really enjoyed this conversation. Bill is a very kind and open person who has an important message to share with the world, and it was truly a pleasure to sit down with him.
00:00:43
Speaker
But before we get to it, for all things Pursuit of Infinity, visit our website, pursuitofinfinity.com, where we have all of our episodes and links for everywhere you can follow us. If you like what we do, head on over there and show us some support. We also really appreciate a follow or a sub, as well as a five-star rating and maybe even some kind words of encouragement in the form of a review. These things really help us to expand our reach and credibility, which is so much appreciated.
00:01:11
Speaker
If you're feeling extra magnanimous, you can become a patron at patreon.com slash pursuit of infinity, where you can donate as little as $2 a month to support what we do. Check us out on YouTube. The channel is up. All of our episodes are there. So if you prefer some visuals and to put some faces to the names, subscribe and keep up with us. We're also on Instagram at pursuit of infinity pod. So give us a follow and reach out because we would love to hear from you.
The Near-Death Experience (NDE) Description
00:01:37
Speaker
Again, all this can be accessed at pursuitofinfinity.com. And without further delay, thank you so much for listening and I hope you enjoy this week's discussion.
00:02:10
Speaker
For everyone listening, you will have heard a short introduction to this week's guest, but for those watching, welcome to Pursuit of Infinity. I'm your host, Josh, and joining me today is our guest, Bill Letzen. Bill, thank you so much for joining me today. Hi, Josh. Thanks for having me.
00:02:26
Speaker
So Bill, you're most widely known for your fascinating near-death experience, which led you down the path of spirituality and esoteric wisdom. But let's get to know, pre-NDE Bill, what was your life like before this journey unfolded?
00:02:43
Speaker
Oh, that's a good question. As you probably know, I was a firefighter and that's kind of a grounded person, been checked out by society, role model, all that stuff, tested every which way before you get in there.
00:03:01
Speaker
And so I was pretty much of a walking a straight line in society. And that included things like talking about an NDE once it did happen. You don't go there generally. And I've met lots of cops and firefighters and military guys who've all had the same experience where you just have to put it away.
00:03:27
Speaker
So yeah, I grew up in this area. Central coast of California was a surfer all my life. And that went into being a wildland firefighter. I just fell in love with that. Just super exciting. And I went to school, I went to Cal Poly, got a degree in forestry and worked for the US Forest Service, did all those jobs, helicopters, back country ranger.
00:03:58
Speaker
all that kind of stuff, hotshot crews. And then I got on with Santa Barbara County Fire Department and, you know, went up to the ranks and then all that, you know, that was all like technical stuff, like high rise fires and hazmat and, you know, working with paramedics.
00:04:18
Speaker
So yeah, it was a wonderful job. I loved every shift. I would have done it for free. That thing with serving people, that thing that comes from your heart just swelling when you help an old guy out and get him to the hospital and you know, like this one time this guy was watching the game and
00:04:39
Speaker
You know, we got the game on for him at the hospital and his wife was just so, I mean, those moments, that's what we're really doing here. Those moments where your heart is filled with love for others. That's, you know, that's the key to life, I think.
00:04:58
Speaker
So yeah, I retired in 2010 and we live on a few acres and we're surrounded by water. We got all these ponds and lakes and outside there's like a million geese right now and turkeys walking by and deer. And it's quiet here and the wind blows and it's a wonderful life. Sounds pretty ideal. Yeah. Yeah, it is. So yeah, that was, that was me and I was raised a Catholic.
00:05:28
Speaker
But I realized those big buildings are pretty empty and on Sundays, there's not a lot of spirituality going on. There's a ritual going on. But yeah, I realized if you're going to hit the spirituality spot, it's going to be in nature. And I think that's why it was, if I wasn't surfing, then I was working in the forest and stuff.
00:05:58
Speaker
And that's where that connection to the divine is. It's in the natural world. So yeah, the Catholic thing, it didn't work out. I was good at it, but it's not, you know, it's not for real. Yeah, yeah. So your near-death experience happened in 1994, correct, while you were on the job? Correct. Can you talk about that a bit and tell us the story?
00:06:26
Speaker
Yeah, sure. It was 1994, and I was working at station 11 in Santa Barbara, the Galita area, and worked with a paramedic engine, and I was a driver. There was a flu epidemic going on, and it was impacting us. It had been going on for a week or two, and we were running calls.
00:06:52
Speaker
Back then, we didn't wear masks. We just went in and took care of the patients and stuff. I never put a mask on once in my career. But we went to this one woman, and she was very ill, and she'd been cooped up, the windows shut, the drapes pulled, and she just kept getting iller and iller. And by the time we got in there, she was in deep trouble.
00:07:18
Speaker
So we kind of jumped into action. The paramedic broke out his stuff and I got a O2 mask on her,
Returning to Life and Its Challenges
00:07:27
Speaker
high flow oxygen. And as I was climbing across the bed and getting her positioned to get the mask on her, she exhaled right into my face and I was inhaling and I felt her breath go right down my lungs.
00:07:44
Speaker
And I looked at the medic and I said, Oh man, that wasn't good. Um, cause she was really, you know, everything was wrong with her color, her temperature, um, hydration, everything was, was off. Um, so anyway, in two, two days later, I was super sick. Um, I got sick about the next day. It's like, I'm getting sick. And two days later I was dehydrated because you're, uh, you know, you're throwing up and it's also going the other way. And, um,
00:08:17
Speaker
It was really powerful. There were colors of phlegm and stuff that I'd never seen before. So anyway, within that two days that I got up that one morning, I was stumbling around, I was looking in the mirror and I go, oh man, something is wrong, seriously wrong. And my heartbeat was just going crazy. It was like 150.
00:08:43
Speaker
And it was all bent over. And I went to take my pulse at my wrist, the radial pulse, and I couldn't get it. And I know how to do that. And I kept trying. And I was like, OK, this is life threatening. Because it had to be below 80, my blood pressure, 80, systolic.
00:09:09
Speaker
So I called my niece and I tried to talk. It was just a whisper. She recognized it was Uncle Billy.
00:09:17
Speaker
I was five years old, a smart kid. She called 911 and got everybody rolling. The guys from Station 22 came to my house, Santa Barbara County Fire. They picked me up, they got a couple of IVs started, high flow, and got me in an ambulance and got me to a hospital in San Ray area. When I came in, went into the hospital, it was full of people. They're all really ill.
00:09:46
Speaker
This flu thing was really dominating the scene. They put me in a room, kept the IVs coming because that's what my issue was. I was severely dehydrated and the system couldn't keep up with the lack of volume, fluid volume. The heart was beating super fast and
00:10:12
Speaker
the blood pressure was dropping out. That's just a circling the drain scenario. That's how we go out. I was doing pretty good. They gave me a couple of IVs and I was starting to clear up and I was feeling good. My wife was there by then and a couple of some guys from the fire department were there.
00:10:39
Speaker
I'm telling her, I think we can get out of here. We get some kind of antibiotics or something going and we can get it from here. I was sitting up and a nurse came in and said, no, you're not going anywhere. Everyone's
Philosophical Reflections on Life and Death
00:10:56
Speaker
getting the same thing. She pushed a synthetic morphine, new vein, and she pushed something for nausea. I don't know what that was. My wife said,
00:11:08
Speaker
your eyes rolled back and you just fell straight back in the bed that you were climbing out of and scared the heck out of everybody. She went and got the doctor. He was overwhelmed. The whole place was full of people, children and stuff that were very ill. They came in and they Narcan me immediately. Sometimes people say that
00:11:38
Speaker
You know, my near-death experience had something to do with the opiates or the new vein or the morphine. But he Narcan me immediately. And she said he did it again five minutes later. And then it was a third time. About 10 or 15 minutes after that, they Narcan you a third time. And I know from my experience with that is
00:12:03
Speaker
We'd go into a heroin overdose on a paramedic engine and there'd be somebody that's lifeless and we'd push Narcan on them and they are up and swinging at us within a minute. It's the most remarkable thing, how it goes in there and just crushes the effect of the opiates. I got a triple dose of that and
00:12:32
Speaker
They put me in the head down position to keep the fluids towards the brain. She said they tried for a while to try to revive you and stuff. Your blood pressure had dropped all the way out. It was 40 over zero was the best they could get.
00:12:52
Speaker
And they rolled you up to intensive care and I was still functioning. And they told me later that it's probably because I was this big athlete. I did triathlons every weekend. It was a wacko. And so I had this really powerful ability with perfusion. And what oxygen I was getting was getting pushed around and I was holding my own.
00:13:22
Speaker
Uh, barely. Um, so yeah, they, they put me there. I spent the night there and sometime in the middle of the night is the best. This was about three 30 that I went into the three 30 in the afternoon. I went into the emergency room and then, uh, about it was one or two in the morning. Um, I left my body. And, um, the only thing I remember, I was sitting up.
00:13:51
Speaker
cracking jokes with the guys there in the emergency room. And then the next thing I knew, I was flying through this sea of stars, these beautiful colored stars that were all around. And they were, I was like I was parading through them, kind of a slow parading. And it was nothing but welcoming and love and
00:14:22
Speaker
It was a reunion. It's like I was home. The thing that I kept thinking, the first thing I thought as I was flying through those stars, it was like, oh my God, what was that? Meaning this life as Bill Lettson.
00:14:42
Speaker
It's like that was gnarly. There's been nothing gnarly about my life. It's been a dream life compared to a lot of things people go through with home life and drug abuse and things like that. I had none of that. Yeah, it's like a dream life.
00:15:08
Speaker
That person that I was was well aware that Bill Lettson was something I was pretending to do. And it was rough. It was rough compared to what we really actually are, that we are just this joy and jubilation and
00:15:34
Speaker
just this static existence, what we really are, where we really come from. So as I was flying along and I kept thinking, how in the world did I forget who I really was? How was it that I believed I was this
00:15:54
Speaker
Dude, and he had this whole thing. He had a resume and a whole story and he had his likes and dislikes and he had this history of all these relationships and associations and none of that. It was all like it was an illusion. It was a play.
00:16:16
Speaker
a show, a movie that I dropped into because none of those emotions followed. It didn't have any complaints about anything or anybody. It was, like I said, it was all a solutionary game that our lives really are. And I was flying along and I'm like, this is incredible and these wonderful stars are just all around and I'm home and
00:16:45
Speaker
I said, I can do this forever. And then suddenly I landed somewhere.
Spiritual Insights and Interconnectedness
00:16:52
Speaker
I landed in this place. It was like a facility. It had indirect lighting. There was equipment there and tables and
00:17:05
Speaker
and there were beings there. Right in front of me were these three short little hooded guys. They had these short little dumpy bodies and they had a dark hood and their faces were kind of covered up here and there, but underneath they had big toothy smiles and they had bright eyes.
00:17:26
Speaker
And they were bouncing around and they were super excited to see me. And I was very confused. All of a sudden, I'm looking at this scene. And just a couple of years ago, I watched this movie, Communion, and it was
00:17:45
Speaker
In that scene where Christopher Walken is in this spaceship, I don't know what the story is there, but he's in this spaceship or something with these beings and there's a lot of crazy things going on. And there's three of them in this movie. These three short little dumpy guys.
00:18:04
Speaker
with the big smiles, they're in there and they're kind of clowning around with him. They're dancing around with him and giving him high fives and stuff like that. And that is exactly the vibe that I was dealing with there with these three guys. They were giggling and they were asking me all kinds of questions.
00:18:30
Speaker
One of them kind of leaned in close and he looked at me really closely and then he turned to the other ones and he goes, he doesn't remember us. And they all giggle wildly about that.
00:18:43
Speaker
My answer was, well, I kind of remember you guys, but I'm a little bit rocked here. I'm not sure what's going on all of a sudden. They giggled around and they bounced around and they were saying things like, how was it? What can you tell us? What did you learn? It was one thing after another.
00:19:07
Speaker
Like I just come in off of a roller coaster and I was back at the landing and all my friends were there and they're waiting to ride the roller coaster. And they were interested in how was the roller coaster. And that's exactly what it felt like. They were very excited and they were very happy. They're very playful, good-natured guys.
00:19:34
Speaker
And then there was this other guy, and he was kind of in the background. And when he came forward, and when he came by me, he was this tall, wispy guy. And when he walked, he kind of separated, and then pieces of him would catch back up. It was the strangest thing. It was like he was made out of liquid or vapor or smoke or something.
00:20:01
Speaker
And his face had the brightest smile. He had this big, incredibly enthusiastic smile, bright eyes. And when he came close, it was obvious he was in charge of everything, but he was not an authoritarian type person, type being. I've never met anybody who was.
00:20:31
Speaker
And when he came close, my chest expanded. It felt like it was going to burst. And my throat constricted like I was going to... It felt like I was going to break down in uncontrollable crying. Just tears, tears, tears of joy. Like a mother watching her child go to...
00:20:56
Speaker
kindergarten for the first time. Just the absolute emotion of love was coming from him and filling me and it was incredible, incredible love.
00:21:10
Speaker
And he came forward, we kind of went back and forth a little bit. And I'll be honest with you, the feelings I got from him was like I was like a toddler and he was like a father.
00:21:28
Speaker
And, you know, when you start looking at this, the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, when you start looking at these things, you can see where this came from. Because I was like a toddler, and then I was asking these questions, and I was trying to, you know, I don't know, do my thing. And he just kept chuckling. And all I felt was love. And they were all amused by this, you know, human soul that had showed up.
00:21:58
Speaker
And at one point he said, at one point I said, well, I'm not going back there. That is for sure. So should we get on with a review of my life? I hear that's the next step. And he just laughed. He just chuckled from the bottom. Just a really deep piercing laugh. And he said, sure, we can do that. How do you want to start?
00:22:28
Speaker
I said, well, OK, I'll take it from here. And I started talking about this and that. And they weren't listening. It was obvious that
Ongoing Spiritual Experiences
00:22:37
Speaker
I was the only one who didn't realize that this was a show and tell and it was a seed. And if I wanted to talk about it.
00:22:48
Speaker
down here, then that would be back here in Earth, then that was cool. But if I didn't, that was cool too. But it was a seed to start some sort of questioning.
00:23:06
Speaker
And yeah, they weren't listening and they didn't care and they were the little hooded guys were just bouncing around and giggling with each other. And he was laughing at them. And then he'd sometimes he'd be chuckling at me and he'd shake his head and smile. And then he just said, okay, time to go back. And I was like, go back. I was like, dude, are you kidding me? I'm not going back. There's no way. And he's like, yeah, you're going back.
00:23:35
Speaker
And it was absolutely, they were in charge. I didn't have any free will. But it was cool about it. It just became obvious to me. He came forward, he says, okay, we're going to go back. And I tried a couple of things.
00:23:55
Speaker
My wife and my parents would be the only people that would really be affected, but they'll be okay. They're strong people. They will get over it. He thought that was funny. I tried a couple of other tricks. He was like, okay, now you're going back. He came very close.
00:24:18
Speaker
It seemed like the whole place was like dematerializing, like it was breaking up. And like I was going to another channel. And it's just started to evaporate. And I felt this descending. I think it was a drop in frequency. And I do think that's what's going on here. We move through different dimensions. And it's all frequency based. It's all vibration.
00:24:47
Speaker
And there's so many other realities all around us, right here. We don't have to travel anywhere. And I have this Kundalini thing that's very active now. And if I just sit still and sort of let go into the vibrations, there's all kinds of silhouettes moving in the room and light figures. And it's very obvious that
00:25:15
Speaker
We believe there's all this space around us and that we're alone in the universe or something, but we ain't. It's a full house. Anyway, he said, I continue to go back, the frequency dropped. He just evaporated and I dropped away and I got back to this
00:25:41
Speaker
dark place near my body and there was this feeling of loneliness and doom and a place you don't want to be. It's right next to where we are now. I was right near my body and yeah, we got names for it here but you don't want to hang out there and
00:26:10
Speaker
Once I got back in my body, I was still for a while, a few hours, I think, because it was around 4.30 or so. I started looking at the, I woke up and I could see the, I had all this equipment all over me and I could see the blood pressure.
00:26:30
Speaker
machine and it was going, you know, it was taking a blood pressure every 10 minutes or so and it would post it. And so I was watching that for a couple of hours and it was really low. It was in the forties when I first looked at it.
00:26:45
Speaker
And, you know, I'd be out again. I'd be awake for a few seconds or so and I'd be out again. And then I started waking up. I could stay awake longer and it was in the fifties and sixties and seventies. And then I, then I was like, okay, I'm.
00:27:02
Speaker
you know, pretty well conscious now. And the nurse came by and she was kind of startled because I was like sitting up looking at her and she's like, you're up, you're awake. And I said, yeah, I need, I have to talk to you. And she said, I have to tell the doctor, you know, we didn't know what was going on with you. You've been our special project here. And I said, okay, you can tell the doctor and that's great. But first,
00:27:32
Speaker
What am I doing back here? I was kind of pissed. I was home. I was home with my best friends. I'm back in this body. I had to squeeze back into this banana peel and zip it up. I said, I'm not stoked. I verbalized it.
00:28:01
Speaker
She said, honey, you were in escrow and you fell out and now you're back with us and you're going to have to, you're going to have to get over that. And it was the best advice ever. You know, it was a, it's that advice that you hear from the yogis and stuff of, you know, once you have a spiritual, uh, type of event,
00:28:25
Speaker
to chop wood and carry water and get back in your life and do your daily stuff, chop wood and carry water. You're here on a mission. You're here in this person to have experiences that you signed up for and give it your best shot. I got around to that. I was pretty sad for a few days.
00:28:48
Speaker
But I got around it to that, and I was back in the game. Because that's what this is. It really is. It's a wonderful gift. It's a game that we play. And that's what that movie, the game, that's what that's all about. About how we're supposed to get over our self, our physical world self,
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
00:29:11
Speaker
the illusion of self. And that's when all the
00:29:17
Speaker
That's when you really start enjoying life. Yeah, so I was there for a day or so more, and then I was on the couch for four or five days, and I came back to full strength, got back to work, and told everybody. I told everyone. I said, this death thing, this is a joke. This is an illusion. We are having the hardest time
00:29:44
Speaker
right now. And when we die, we slip out of this physical illusion, this vessel that we are taking a joyride in and an emotional joyride. And then we go home to, it's nothing but high vibrations, just like I said, just appreciation and love and acceptance.
00:30:10
Speaker
All the low vibrational energies, emotions, they don't live there. They stay here, and we drop them. So yeah, I told everybody, and after a few weeks, it became pretty obvious that I was heading for the Kook label.
00:30:33
Speaker
I zipped it and I dummied up for about 15 years. But one of the guys at work, they say, one of the kids or something, a loser parent, and they would ask me, tell me about that thing that happened to you. And I would tell them full, people sought me out and quietly. And I would tell them there is nothing ever to worry about. There is no death.
00:31:02
Speaker
I was still me. I still had my goofballs into humor. I still had.
00:31:09
Speaker
that voice in our head that all of us have that narrates our day, tells us what we're gonna do next. And that voice, it was still me. It was a seamless, flawless step out of the physical and I still existed. And I was absolutely aware of every detail of this roller coaster ride that we call physical life.
00:31:36
Speaker
And I tell them that I say, you know, you didn't lose you didn't lose anybody I know it's it's a gnarly thing we go through but they simply slipped out of the physical and they've gone home and they are You know, it's it's just a standing wave of euphoria They call it Nirvana. I've used the word cosmic orgasm because
00:32:05
Speaker
That's what it really felt like. It was like a standing wave of complete exhilaration, aliveness. Everything was alive. So yeah, that's how it went for years. And then it took a little turn around 2012. I'd like to go back a little bit to the experience itself. I have a bunch of questions, if you don't mind. Yeah.
00:32:35
Speaker
I love the analogy that you use of the roller coaster as if you got off of the roller coaster and the beings that were around you were excited to hear how it was. So did it feel as if it was just your turn and they were going to have their turn at some point too, or did it feel more like they were some sort of like, uh, like employees of whatever realm you were in? Very good, Josh. Um,
00:33:02
Speaker
I said from the beginning, I said, I felt these guys were technicians. They were there to, you know, and this just folds right into the alien abduction thing. They're there to keep an eye on us, to upgrade us. You know, we hear of these miraculous healings and stuff. We come into these places and they fill us up with
00:33:28
Speaker
you know, energy from the other side, prana and love is what it really is. And it heals everything. So yeah, they were they were employees. And I don't know, maybe I was like a nice guy or something like that. And you know, I always talk to the dishwashers and the busboys and stuff whenever we go anywhere. And maybe that was it. They were like, hey, this guy's cool. And
00:33:57
Speaker
Because there was no distance at all. They liked me. And I could feel it immediately. So I've heard the
00:34:13
Speaker
like the theory or the hypothesis of like, um, like a soul family. Like there are people that are in your life and souls that are connected to you in this realm and the astral that you sort of travel with. So when you said that, it sort of reminded me of like, maybe these people were like connected to your soul in some particular way. Did you feel that way? Like, did you feel that you knew them from somewhere or from eternity? Um, not the,
00:34:42
Speaker
Short little guys, but the tall, wispy guy, he's somewhere in the chain of command. I said earlier that he was like a father giggling at a toddler that was learning to walk around the house. You hear people talk about all this love.
00:35:07
Speaker
the creator or whatever put their arms around them during their experience and they feel all this love. And yeah, that's what he is or this being is. And, you know, when you start to, I mentioned the father and son, the Holy Spirit, there's one story, but there's also like the physical world self, the soul, the higher self,
00:35:34
Speaker
Um, you know, the, the ego, the super ego here, here on earth, we're constantly trying to explain this hierarchy, this chain of command, this thing that we are. I mean, we're all these, we're all these things, I think. So I'm, I don't know. Did I answer your question? I was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. So was your sense of time changed and did you have, um,
00:36:03
Speaker
like vivid more accurate senses. There was. It seemed like you know people talk about like the periphery is wispy and.
00:36:17
Speaker
Foggy, you know, you see this in movies, like it's smoky in the distance and stuff. And there's your, whatever is going on with you is very sharp. And, you know, I could see the wrinkles on the short guy's faces and stuff. But as far as in that situation, it was looking around the room and being able to draw equipment and stuff like that. No, I didn't have that kind of detail.
00:36:49
Speaker
And the time thing, people have asked me that. I would say it was 15 or 20 minutes I was there, but I don't know. My wife, we were talking about this the other day, and she said, you crashed around 3.30, 3.35, something like that. You went down.
00:37:16
Speaker
And she goes, when do you think you are? She's all into this now, because this this last couple of videos have got millions of views, my goodness, and emails and comments. It's like this NDE thing's going, you know, it's hitting its pace or something.
00:37:36
Speaker
But yeah, she said that she assumed that I was out of my body right when that whole crash thing happened. And then the rest of it was just recovering. And I looked at her and I said, well, I don't know. I just know that when I came back, it was about 3.30. And it seemed like I'd been back like an hour or so. Anyway, but I was out for 12 hours.
00:38:05
Speaker
So as far as what went on during that time, you know, I can tell you what went on, but I can't tell you. I can't give you an accounting by, you know, by time. Yeah, these experiences are often completely ineffable.
00:38:23
Speaker
So you say that like as you were sort of coming back down into your body, you found yourself in like this dark and negative realm. How do you make sense of that? Do you feel like that's sort of like, close to where we are on this earth right now, close to where our physical bodies are? Is it somewhere that we can transcend to or go down into? Yeah, I got a couple of
00:38:50
Speaker
that's gonna like these stuff. They're out there. One of them's really out there. So, Edgar Cayce, he's one of my favorites because everything he talks about makes sense, everything. So, he said that he would leave his body and give readings.
00:39:11
Speaker
And he would do this thing where he would sit quietly and put this concentration on the center of his forehead, and sometimes he'd press his hands against it.
00:39:26
Speaker
the people that are around him would say that he would go into REM sleep. He would go into, with these vibrations, his eyes would be blinking, just like you and I, when we go to sleep at night and we soul travel, you know, we go into REM sleep, he could do it at will. And I'm doing things now where it's like, oh my goodness, you know, it's like I'm being vacuumed out.
00:39:54
Speaker
I don't get there because, you know, when caution kicks in or fear kicks in, then the brakes, that applies to the brakes. And you have to be fearless if you're going to do that out of body stuff.
00:40:07
Speaker
But he was fearless, and when he pulled out of his body, he found himself a little dot of light outside his body, and he could perceive his body. And he was in a place, as he described it, he was in a place that was dark, it was lonely, and it was
00:40:32
Speaker
He was fearful. It was a fearful place and he knew that he had to find the light and follow the light to this. He would find a stairway like a Jacob's ladder type thing and he would move on this stairway and he would go up.
00:40:51
Speaker
several levels and he saw all these hooded figures, just you know these short little hooded figures just like I talked about and he would go past them and they'd have dark robes on the lower floors and the robes would get lighter and lighter as he went up and
00:41:10
Speaker
And then he would visit the Akashic Records and he'd get, you know, if he was doing a reading for Josh Leonard, he would go in there and announce to this old, this old man who was keeping these records, you know, the subject is Josh Leonard and then the book would open and he'd read it and then he'd go back. And then he'd give a reading. He would, he was speaking through some higher version of himself because he would be asleep and he would never,
00:41:40
Speaker
remember anything, but they had a stenographer who, that's why he's so amazing. They've got thousands of volumes of his readings. But yeah, he was asleep. He was in this REM state and this higher version of him was talking, giving all this information.
00:41:59
Speaker
But when he came out he said he'd go up, he'd leave his body and the first level was very scary things like
00:42:11
Speaker
something you'd see in nightmares and that's a quote just these wild uh figures and then he'd move into another level and he said they were um less nightmarish but they would have like a large a big part of their body would be overemphasized like they'd have a huge head or they'd have these huge hands or whatever that was about i don't know and then he would move into this
00:42:38
Speaker
these other levels and it would become more, you know, angelic as we know it. So taking that into consideration is that, you know, that's what he saw and
00:42:55
Speaker
That's what he experienced, and it matched mine. It was the robed figures on this stairway, is how he described it, and this very scary feeling when you first leave your body, and then this sort of hell realm.
00:43:11
Speaker
And so my second story, which was really a few years ago, I got a call from this English ambulance crew and they worked out of a fire station. And they said, we don't know what happened on this call. And you're like the only guy we can talk to about it. They were rattled.
00:43:30
Speaker
And they said they're in this small village in the south of England, south of London. And there was a group of guys that were rowdy guys. They rode motorcycles through town. People didn't like them. They were mean to people and responsible for probably 90% of the crime in the area.
00:43:53
Speaker
So this guy was speeding along in his leather jacket on raising hell and he crashed. And he was all wiped out and they got called and it's like, oh, it's this guy, you know, hope he doesn't wake up. And he was pretty out of it and his life signs were super low and they worked on him as best they could. And they kept losing him and, you know, they tried to bring him back with the defibrillator and all that.
00:44:23
Speaker
It's like his injuries were too much. And so they covered him up and they set him on the side of the road. They waited for the, you know, the morgue to come and or the police department, you know, they got to pronounce them and all this and.
00:44:42
Speaker
So they're sitting there and like 10 minutes have gone by and they worked on him for a long time. And then he was flatlined through all of it. And then he was sitting over there for about 10 minutes. And all of a sudden the sheet came off him and he sat up, screamed, blood curling scream.
00:45:06
Speaker
I'm in hell. Help me. I'm in hell. And screamed again and fell back. And they're like, holy shit. And they went and grabbed all their stuff. They hooked him up to the monitor and stuff. And he was still flat-lined. And they gave him a couple more jolts with the defibrillator.
00:45:26
Speaker
And they were rattled. And so I told them everything I just told you. And I said, well, this guy didn't live a kind life, probably. And the energies, the emotions that we hang with the most, that is going to define us when we leave here.
00:45:51
Speaker
You know, he stepped right into that hell realm, I'm guessing, and he didn't have the vibration. He didn't have, you know, we hear that angels are in their wings. He didn't have the higher vibration to rise up out of this place. So, you know, he's going to do another round there. I think what happens, you know, because we are these thought forms, I think what happens is we figure it out after a while and then
00:46:20
Speaker
And then we get back into whatever goes on on the other side, and then we go another round. And we have that lesson. We get to remember, I ain't going to do that again. I'm not going to ride through town and bust out people's property and stuff like that. I'm going to teach Sunday school. And that's what's going on. We're here in this earth school. And we get to raise hell all we want.
00:46:51
Speaker
Until we learn that that's not, that's not the divine plan for us. So it seems that like this guy has, it's like all of us really, we have like one foot in the divine door and then one foot in the physical realm here. Cause if he can exist in kind of both at the same time, whereas like his astral body or his astral consciousness is affecting
00:47:18
Speaker
his physical body, something ties us to that. So like, what do you think tethers our consciousness to our body? Well, I think that, that, um, you know, you talk about that, the, the silver cord that comes out of the forehead and I've, you know, I have a lot of things happening these days and, uh, I will see that when I'm, uh, in a dream slash experience, I will see this, it looks like the bill of a hat, just
00:47:50
Speaker
trailing off and think nothing of it. At the time of death, that is severed when it's final death. A lot of these near-death experiences, you're just peeling away and you're moving up, like I call it, the chain of command. You're moving up through the soul and the higher self, and you're having all these experiences, but you're always going to go back
00:48:15
Speaker
to that form that you have a divine contract with. Divine contract, I think, is what my answer is when you say, what ties us here? And we want to fulfill our contract. I know that.
00:48:35
Speaker
We want to do good. We're only here for a flash. We're only here for a few heartbeats. It seems like, you know, I'm pushing 70 and it seems like, you know, we're just here forever, but it's the whole thing with time, it really doesn't exist. And we're in this sort of linear construct, but construct hologram, but it,
00:49:04
Speaker
Everything's really happening at the same time. They call it maya or the illusion and I believe it's in Buddhism, right?
00:49:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's a really good illusion. We're in an amusement park and we're having a thrill of a lifetime. All of our ancestors, they're all around us and they're all watching. Thousands of souls are watching us all the time. What are our choices? What is our vibration? How much love is coming from your heart into the world? You can't fake it.
00:49:44
Speaker
Politicians and lawyers, they do a good job. And actors, they do a good job of faking it for us, but you can't fake it with who we really are, where we really come from. So that's the contract, right? The details of our contract have to all do with love. I think the details of our contract is we come in here and we're going to have three, four, five big moments.
00:50:13
Speaker
Let's say your father who didn't treat you very well through your whole life suddenly is very ill and he needs caretaker and he doesn't have any money. You move forward from a place of love and you take care of him to the end of his life and you mean it. I love you, Dad. I know you made some mistakes.
00:50:41
Speaker
And that's a huge challenge that it may upset your family and may be a financial hardship. But when you say, no, this is important, I need to show this man. I love him even if he never was that way to me. And I didn't experience that. My dad was amazing. He was my best friend.
00:51:05
Speaker
But most guys at the fire station gate when you get quiet, you know, you'd be off on a fire line at night and they'd Open up and most young men they had a tough time with their dad, you know So yeah, and that's that's one of them and you know, there's times when you could do the right thing or you could do the Willful and selfish thing to where you're gonna make a lot of money, you know with this
00:51:35
Speaker
You know, kid group that needs a new facility built or something like that. And you can cut yourself in on some big cash. Or you can say, you know what, they don't have a lot of cash and these kids don't have, it's so good, you know, snorffinage or something like that. And you put your heart into it and you give them the best deal you can and they take care of them, take care of them.
00:52:03
Speaker
Again, this whole thing with selfishness and willfulness, that's usually the key. Stepping away from the physical world self that never has enough, always has to be right, has to be first. This is all this stuff about this illusionary self.
00:52:30
Speaker
Yeah, for sure, for sure. How has having this type of experience of dying and coming back and having such an amazing experience changed the way you feel about other people dying, whether it be random people or people that you love or have known in your life. Are you going to edit this, right? Can I let this animal out, this cat?
00:52:57
Speaker
Oh, I mean, he's fine meowing the whole time. You know, I had a cat actually who, uh, who recently passed away and he used to jump up on the desk and go in front of the camera and hang out. So it's no problem. And I have a dog who barks all the time too.
00:53:10
Speaker
Oh yeah, this place is full of animals. Okay, so the question was, how do I feel about death and people passing? Yeah, the way I look at it, and I've looked at it this way ever since my NDE, is my job here is to, and Aram Dass said this, is to walk those that we love, you know, help them home. Walk, you know. We're all walking each other home.
00:53:40
Speaker
Yeah, stay with them. My mom passed away a year and a half ago or so. It was a horrible situation with family and addiction and greed and things like that. They were just tearing her up. But my wife and I, we stood by her and I was with her every day for hours. We talked and we filled her room with pictures of our youth.
00:54:10
Speaker
She knew that we absolutely loved her, and that got her home. She started relaxing, and she sort of said, it's time for me to go. She was perfectly fine, but she said, it's time for me to go. A week later, she was gone.
00:54:34
Speaker
What had happened was she was slowly, you know, she was losing one thing after another and the room was filling up with relatives and she'd always been psychic and it got, you know, in her older age, it got really powerful and she had all kinds of visions and they were, it was cool for me because it was like,
00:54:59
Speaker
She's living what I had an experience in. She's living in it every day. She's seeing all kinds of little fairies and she described like a gargoyle thing. I go, it's a face like a human, but it's got this body and she says it's right there on the couch. All the relatives would be
00:55:23
Speaker
in the room. And if I was there and if I dozed off on the couch, we'd be BSing for hours. And if I dozed off, when you're coming out of sleep, out of that divine sweet spot between dreaming and waking and sleeping, that is the connection to the divine. And the room would be full of light forms, just moving everywhere.
00:55:51
Speaker
And it would be so much love, you know, I'd be like, like that time when I was with that being my chest would be swelling and, and, uh, and I have this experience just coming out of sleep. And I'd say, mom is, is, is your brother here? And she said, Oh, brother's here. My two sisters are here. Mom and dad are over there. And I'm like, wow. Um, so yeah, that thing is, uh, is,
00:56:18
Speaker
We're all going to die. And we're already dead, actually, because everything's happening at the same time. And just be kind. That's what I've learned. Just be kind. Because we're all here to suffer.
00:56:45
Speaker
We're all going to lose all of our influence in the world. If you've got a big corporation today, you're slowly going to be moved down to one property, then you're going to be in one room, then you're going to be in one chair or a bed. It's going to happen to all of us. I don't care who you are. Just be kind. Be kind to everybody. That is how we earn our wings. We earn a higher vibration of love.
00:57:15
Speaker
We rise out of this place by our own deeds, our own thoughts. Do you think that people that don't adhere to that type of philosophy go to the same place that people that do? I think everybody's going to the same place. I sound like some kind of guru or something, but
00:57:41
Speaker
This is thousands of lives we're talking about. We're talking about 15,000, 20,000 lives, and we all are going to arrive the same place. We're all going to be successful. It's like we're being processed. We got to get there on our own. That's the whole thing with the matrix.
00:58:07
Speaker
Is he the one? He's the one and nobody would tell him. He had to figure it out for himself. We have to get to that place where we just know. There's this guy, his name is Michael Tamara, and he says that what we're doing is
00:58:32
Speaker
We're learning to die well. We're learning to leave the body without fear and navigate those realms that you and I were talking about earlier, without any fear at all, just with grace. Most people, especially now, we're at a really unconscious time in the clock of the world.
00:58:59
Speaker
And a lot of people are going to be very surprised when they step out of here. And you and I talked about psychedelics. Psychedelics are a wonderful way to prepare yourself for a very bizarre place on the other side. Nothing can hurt you. Nothing can harm you. There's nothing ever to be fearful of. But things look
00:59:29
Speaker
appear very dramatic. That's what the Tibetan Book of the Dead is all about, all those bardos. It always says, fear not. You'll see this and you'll see that. There's wild faces and wild beings, but fear not.
00:59:53
Speaker
That is the key is. That's so funny. You said that I was just about to bring up the Tibetan book of the dead and on the Bartos. Um, and it reminds me of, um, the content of samsara and Buddhism to this endless rebirth. And, uh, you know, you can transcend, you can also, uh, descend. And I guess the point being, uh, to achieve nirvana, which is to escape the entire circle, uh, of samsara. And this really reminds me of that concept, what you're talking about. Yeah.
01:00:24
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I tell this story once, I just probably isn't too crazy for you. But I tell this, did you want to ask another question or do you want me to? Oh, no, please go on. Okay, so I tell this story, you know, I slowly over the last five years, I've opened up more and more and more in these interviews or in these conferences. And I'll go further and further. And I've noticed I was at the Salt Lake City ions.
01:00:53
Speaker
And I told the guys when we were setting up, I said, man, you guys are going to throw me out of here because I'm going to pull out all the stops. And they're like, go for it. I can only throw you out of here once.
01:01:11
Speaker
It was standing room only in this room and the place they were, I'm looking at this audience and they're just like transfixed. And I'm like, wow, you know, the human beings that are actually asking these questions, they're hungry. They're hungry for, you know, conclusions, explanations. They don't have to be, right? They're just your best shot at what's going on here.
01:01:40
Speaker
I was there for like four days and people came up to me and they said, oh man, thank you so much when you talked about this because this is something that's been going through me and it's like, oh, great. But anyway, yeah, so I've been slowly opening up and one of the most amazing experiences I've had came a couple of years ago and
01:02:07
Speaker
I was going to this place and a lot of the movies that are popular, a lot of things that are in the media are telling us that we are these divine, eternal beings and there's nothing to worry about. You have to know what you're looking for and you have to be ready to hear it and
01:02:34
Speaker
So I was going to include this, and there's a lot of movies like The Wizard of Oz and The Adjustment Bureau and The Matrix and Avatar. These movies are telling us who we really are. And I'm having all these experiences with this pressure on my right side, and there's this
01:02:58
Speaker
If I just sit quietly, it only takes a couple less than a minute now, and the whole room will change. It comes with all this glitter in the room, and then there's these colors, and then there's these forms, silhouettes moving around, and I can get there pretty fast. I'm convinced that this is a good thing to talk about, so I'm stretching it.
01:03:26
Speaker
And I'm thinking, well, maybe there is a... We've all heard these things that there's a...
01:03:31
Speaker
You know, elites, or there's a group out there, Illuminati, Freemasons, that are holding us all down. And what I started saying was, I think it's the exact opposite. When you're ready to see what they're telling you, it's obvious that the universe is nothing but pure love and connection and appreciation. And we come into this place
01:03:57
Speaker
to get the crap scared out of us. It's like we're in a spook house that we're going to die and all these crazy things are going to happen to us. And nothing ever happened. Two. That's good. Josh said you can bark. Yeah, it's no problem. He's a good boy. Good job, buddy.
01:04:28
Speaker
Yeah, so all these crazy things are gonna happen to us and they really aren't. You know, we just sort of, I've had this a lot of times, we just sort of like peeling the back of a stamp off. We just sort of peel away and we move in these other dimensions. We do it every night when we go to sleep. We all do it. It's not just the people like me that are talking about it.
01:04:53
Speaker
We all do it. And we all are these divine beings that are having a trip to the amusement park. And so, man, I'm sorry. I get rolling here. You're so open to just letting it. Oh, OK. So I just remember where I was going.
01:05:15
Speaker
So I wasn't going to talk about this stuff. I kind of held back from it. And a lot of people don't talk about things like that. You're overstepping yourself, perhaps. And I said, heck with it. They're telling us that we're these divine beings, and everything is always fine. There's never any problems. And it's in the movies. It's in the media.
01:05:47
Speaker
You can see it if you're tuned into what they're trying to say. And so I said, heck with it. I'm going to tackle this. So I put a few slides in, and I said just that, that I think it's the opposite. I think that they're telling us how
01:06:10
Speaker
special we are and it's not that they're special and there are stage managers here and they keep things you know the war is rolling and all that stuff and there are stage hands and you know those little guys in the robes and stuff there we've had names for them forever we've called them leprechauns and trolls and gnomes and you know they're they're keeping things
01:06:40
Speaker
You know, for the individuals are keeping things, um, keeping the movie on script on time. And yeah, so this, and the stage managers are there too. And, but I'm convinced that the universe is only, it's only pure love and sweetness and kindness and forever. Um, can't get enough of it. So I said, I'm with you. So I, and yeah. And if you, you know, there's.
01:07:10
Speaker
Like I said, the messages I'm seeing, that's just smattering. It's an Easter egg hunt. And what's really coming through the screens are telling people, we all got to lock and load because the zombies are coming. And people are buying it because those screens are incredibly powerful, the visuals.
01:07:35
Speaker
Anyway, I put in a few slides and I said, heck with it, come what may. Ever since all this stuff started, I got up my bed outside on the deck above the lake with all the animals that sleep out there and stuff. I look at the stars at night because NASA is telling the stories about stars. It's not the story I'm coming up with. That is a divine environment up there.
01:08:03
Speaker
The things I see are crazy and one of them was I just I just laid down I was looking at the stars and I said, oh heck with it I feel pretty good about this, you know, I'm gonna step out into this realm and and I'm kind of putting my money where my mouth is and uh
01:08:26
Speaker
So anyway, I'm sitting there and somewhere something slipped and the whole sky opened up. It just opened up and there was this swirling clouds. And inside was this giant woman and she was made of gold. She was all gold and she was perfect.
01:08:47
Speaker
She was beautiful and all I heard was roaring. Her mouth was moving and she had the biggest smile and all I heard was this roaring. The whole deck was shaking, the earth was shaking, the house was shaking to me and it was like lightning was thunder and lightning were everywhere and I'm looking up at her and I'm like,
01:09:12
Speaker
All right, this is pretty crazy, but I'm not going to blow this. She's trying to say something to me. Her mouth was moving, and all I heard was, like I said, roaring. And I looked right into her golden eyes, very different golden eyes.
01:09:33
Speaker
she was absolutely stoked. She was absolutely overjoyed at something. And she was gesturing, you know, she was like reaching down towards me and gesturing behind her and like a welcoming thing. And I was like, this is, this is, this is the craziest thing. No one would ever believe this. And
01:09:58
Speaker
Like I said, she was absolutely perfect. She was sensual. She was athletic build. And she had this clothing that was blowing in the wind, but the clothing was also part of the clouds that were in this vision. And you see these pictures in these churches in Europe, you see them everywhere with these
01:10:27
Speaker
uh you know these godly figures coming out of the clouds and looking down at us and you know that that's not an popular art form people actually saw those things um and that's what i saw and and then it just
01:10:48
Speaker
closed up and it was gone and it was complete silence. And I figured all the dogs and cats who were scared to death and the chickens were upset and nobody had heard anything. They were all sleeping. It was just me. Oh, and it ended with this incredible crack of lightning. And if you've ever been close to a lightning strike like within a hundred feet or so,
01:11:13
Speaker
you'll hear it, it'll, it'll like go, like, it'll echo for like a long time, like a minute. And that's when that ended. That's what I heard. I heard like this crack of lightning, like you were right on top of it. And, um,
01:11:35
Speaker
So yeah, I sat there and I was looking at the sky and I was shaking my head and said, oh man, this is now I know why our ancestors called these beings gods because there was absolutely, the power was absolutely overwhelming. It was complete power over this realm, our earth, our bodies, our, you know, our entire environment was completely,
01:12:07
Speaker
They are completely in control, these wonderful beings. And I talked about being a firefighter. You get out on these brush fires, and sometimes you get out flanked, and here comes 60, 80 foot flames. And you're going to pull back into a safety zone, or you're going to hunker down somewhere, and it's going to blow over you. And it's just this little roaring sound, and the ground is shaking.
01:12:36
Speaker
You can't talk to the firefighters next to you because it's just really intense for several minutes while it blows by. And it would be the same as if you laid on the tracks and let a freight train just go over you. That sort of shaking, roaring power. And that is exactly what that felt like. Like this indisputable, incredible, infinite power.
01:13:07
Speaker
So that kind of told me, because I was thinking that all night, I was like, okay, I got to put together these slides. I'm going to venture out into this no man's land prohibited place. And I think she was stoked because it's like,
01:13:26
Speaker
Dude, you overcame your fear. And this is something the world is going to wake up to, you know, over the next several dozen centuries. It's gonna slowly wake up that we are these divine beings. We are these mini gods of sorts. And we're having a little experience here with kind of a human, you know,
01:13:58
Speaker
doll, I guess. Yeah. It reminds me, um, Terence McKenna has said, uh, nature loves courage and, uh, the most glorious of treasures will be, uh, will be rewarded to the courageous. And I feel that you are one of those people and I really, really appreciate, uh, you telling us your story and we're heading toward an hour here. And I would really, really love.
01:14:24
Speaker
to continue this conversation at another point in time, have you on again. Would you be down to do that? Yeah, totally, man. You're cool. Fantastic. I love it. I really appreciate it. If people want to contact you, where can they find you? They can find me at bletson56 at Gmail. Wonderful, wonderful. Well, thank you so much. Is there anything else you want to leave us with? Any more wisdom? You know, I think I've
01:14:52
Speaker
really gone over the top here, maybe we can just let it set. All right, I'll say just one other thing. So yeah, a couple of these videos have really taken off, and I'm getting all kinds of emails and stuff like that, and it's really obvious that there is a confused populace out there that's suffering, and they're
01:15:21
Speaker
They kind of see that the world is going a certain place, and you came into this life to experience it, whatever that means.
01:15:35
Speaker
Just say, there's never anything to fear. You're going to be fine. Everything's going to be just fine. You're going to peel out of this place effortlessly. And people leave their bodies hours and days before they actually pass. And you're not here to have some horrible experience passing away.
01:16:02
Speaker
most likely, and you're gonna be fine. Everything's gonna be fine. There's never anything to worry about. Just be kind to others and take care of others. And you're gonna really travel. Your soul's gonna travel. I love your message, Bill. Thank you so much again. I appreciate your time. Yeah, thank you, Josh. And I'll be in touch.
01:16:58
Speaker
Okay, cool.
01:19:04
Speaker
you