Transcript
Speaker: I said to him one time, you know, when I witness X, it makes a part of me very anxious. I get very triggered. And his response was, that sounds like a you problem, not a me problem.
Speaker: Whoa. But he was kind of right. No, exactly. He's like, he's like, I can't help you yeah if that's the way you interpret that. He literally said, I can't help you if that's the way you interpret that. That's not my intention.
Speaker: Hello and welcome to the Positively Healthy Mom podcast. I'm your host, Laura Olinger, teen and young adult life coach and founder of Positively Healthy Coaching. And this is the place where positive parenting meets wellbeing. So today I'm super excited to introduce my guest, Stacey Urig, who is a mom of two, a certified trauma care practitioner, author, speaker, and host of Flip Your Mind podcast. So welcome to the show, Stacey.
Speaker: Thanks so much for having me. So excited to dig into this conversation today because you are an expert at what you call kind of, yeah and I'll let you explain it protective mechanisms. I call them masks, but I feel like we have some great commonality here because as I work with teens and young adults, especially i work with boys and girls, but one of the big ones I see with girls is people pleaser. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: So why don't we start there? Great. Happy to do it. So yeah I use the terminology of parts. So in the space of parts work, the concept is that we're all we all have a self.
Speaker: And we know when we're aligned with self because we will say things like, oh, I'm such i'm in such flow or I feel so aligned to myself or i just feel like me.
Speaker: We know when we are presenting as ourselves and when we're not. However, as we're growing up, and what I say is we assess, we address, we adapt, we kind of just assess the environment that we're growing up in And it's not really super cognitive. It's somewhat conscious, but we're also feeling our way through our homes, who our caretakers are, how well our needs are being met, how well they might not be being met.
Speaker: And at some point, what I say is we shed authentic pieces of that self to meet the needs of someone else so our need will be met.
Speaker: So if we're trying to get attention or if we're trying to soothe something that's happening in the household, we will quickly assess the situation, address it the best way we know how.
Speaker: And if it works, it becomes this adaptation. In the world of parts work, we would say that part becomes activated at that point. And so a part of us could be a part that's learned, if I can keep you happy, it gives me a sense of safety and security, and that will make me happy. And if we're assessing the situation and it requires that and we address it with that and it works, it kind of just becomes this part that leads us. So I would say we're very parts led by that part at that point.
Speaker: And it kind of becomes an adaptation unconsciously. And it's usually not until adulthood that we address it because we recognize it's it's not really working anymore.
Speaker: Right. And the damage and ripple effects that can come out of yes operating out of our, what did you call your kind of primary self or core self? Our self. Yeah, just our self. Self with the capital S. Yes. When we're not operating from our capital self, yeah, and we're operating as this different part. I mean, all sorts of havoc could come. and We could probably name. In fact, why don't you talk about like, what are these repercussions kind of lifelong? Some of the patterns that you see in adults who are not operating from their primary self. Yeah. So in the world of parts work, we would say someone's more parts led and the goal is to become more self led. Right. And we don't have just one part. We have dozens of parts. Sometimes there's inner conflict and we hear that. We'll say that. And sometimes they actually align and become a bigger gatekeeper, bigger wall to ourself, right? So ourself just becomes super dimmed out.
Speaker: Parts that I see, I'm going to use women as an example. Parts that I see that are very, very common in women are people-pleasing, boundary setting, seeking external validation, extreme caretaking, any kind of peacekeeping.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. and a big one that i see is overachieving being the good one being the perfectionist being the performer yes i see this a lot and you know when it first starts it probably is working very well you're getting accolades you're getting attention perhaps or you're keeping the peace And we do it because something feels dysregulated internally. There's some sort of, you know, neuroception, I would call it, some sort of sensation that we have that something feels off.
Speaker: And we don't like that sensation in our body. It's a bit of an alarm. Yeah. And so we're trying to figure out a way to turn off the alarm. And so we show up a little bit differently. And if it works, it kind of sticks.
Speaker: Later on in life, we end up burning out. This is this is the recipe for burnout. Right. Right. We are resentful. We are exhausted.
Speaker: hu And we feel, I'm not saying this is the way it is, but we feel very broken. This is what come I hear coming in. I'm so broken. Just fix me. They don't have opinions and they don't know who they are.
Speaker: Yes. This is something I, yeah, I see at an alarming rate with it even young teens that I work with. And i do some exercises with them. So I'd love to hear kind of that some of the work you do, which is sometimes just like, you know, it's noticing the things that you like and you don't like. And sometimes they're kind of just stuck in this pattern of, oh, no, it's whatever you like or where do you want to go? Oh, I don't care. i don't care. What do you want? Right. Right.
Speaker: um And so sometimes we'll just start with like a simple game. Okay, chocolate or vanilla, right? And like sometimes they're like, I don't know. And I'm like, no, no, no, pick one. And we kind of, I try to like make it it a little fun, but like try to like get them to associate with like, you know, one or the other.
Speaker: And it's hard. There's so much conflict. So what do you do? What are your, some of your activities? Well, you know, so I only work with adults, right? I don't work with children. When I find that they're having a hard time making a decision,
Speaker: It's usually because there's something in their nervous system that blocks them. ain't So a very, very good example to what you're talking about now 20, 30 years later is I had a gal come into my office many years ago and i said, use three words to describe yourself.
Speaker: And she said, I'm fun loving, easy going and go with the flow. And I said, are you go with the flow or do you just not have any opinions? Good question.
Speaker: And what did she say? like i don't have opinions and i said why don't you have opinions she said because they hurt because when people ask me my opinion and then i give it to them in ah many cases i've been told it's wrong So like, for example, she goes, a perfect example was if I'm with my husband, which in the process, she was in the process of getting a divorce at the time.
Speaker: If he says to me, what do you want for dinner? Yeah. And then she says, how about Italian? And he goes, well, you know I don't want to Italian. I don't want Italian. Yeah. So pick something else.
Speaker: And she'll be like, i don't know, Mexican? And he's like, i don't want Mexican food. And she's like, well, what do you want? He's like, i want Chinese. And she's saying to me, I hate Chinese food. Yeah. And I go, okay. Yeah.
Speaker: Because what was happening internally for her, this conflict of not wanting conflict, because growing up, conflict equated to bad. so she was a conflict avoider. it was just easier for her to make the peace and say, whatever works for you is fine for me.
Speaker: But now she didn't even know what she liked anymore. She goes, I honestly don't know what food I like because I stopped having an opinion. Yes. I stopped caring and I feel empty. i feel like a shell of myself. And so a lot of times when I'm working with the client, I'm trying to figure out if you had an opinion, what could happen?
Speaker: OK. I didn't see that coming. OK. What could happen? She could say, i could be told I'm wrong. I could be yelled at. i could be scolded. i could be told I'm stupid. Why would you pick that? That's dumb.
Speaker: Why would you wear that? Why would you choose that? Why would you do this? And so it just became easier to not have to feel those things by just not having an opinion. So I pulled back the layer that way.
Speaker: And then we start to get curious about what that part of her was that was activated, that was giving her what I call this nuanced ringtone of activation in her system. But the fact that she's not in that environment anymore. So there's a lot of backpedaling that we need to do to get to the root.
Speaker: But the same gal two years later sent me a picture of herself on the beach. And she said, I just want to tell you, i took myself on a yoga retreat. And the old part of me would have done what the whole group was doing to keep the peace out of fear that they wouldn't like me or that I would feel on the outside. And everybody wanted to go on a boat tiki cruise thing today. And I absolutely did not want to go. And the old me would have just gone to be a part of
Speaker: And I stayed back by myself, and I'm so happy, and everybody, nobody cared. Everybody was like, that's great. Just do you. Yeah. And I would have never even, she goes, this is one of those little micro shifts you've been telling me to look for.
Speaker: is just figure out what I want, align myself to what I want, prioritize my needs as being important, and this is what I needed today. And I did it, and I didn't get the backlash i always was fearful I was going to get, which is like, what's wrong with you? Why wouldn't you want to do what everybody else is doing? Right.
Speaker: That almost just like brought some tears to my eyes. And I love it when, and it's funny because you and I are like working with the same thing, but just different ages. Right. And I love it when a client says the old me, the old me would have done this. yeah Right. When the new me and sometimes as the coach, you know, and the adult, I have to kind of frame it, you know, so that, and I sometimes say, oh, the old you, what would have the old in the, what would the new? And they're like, oh yeah. Right. To like get a little bit of space there and like see that progression and that transformation. i just think that's so awesome. And also notably in your story, your antidote about the client
Speaker: They were in a different environment, right? And so sometimes like that is the key. Like you're in the wrong environment around the wrong people if you can't be your two true self. And obviously with a lot of work like with someone like you to help guide them through, they're now in an environment where they can be themselves. They're around people where they do feel safe, where they can let their s capital S self show up.
Speaker: So that's absolutely just beautiful. And I love what you're doing. I'm thinking, what are some other kind of patterns that you see as far as other parts besides the people pleaser? I know we talked about the perfectionist. um What's another common one that you see?
Speaker: Well, look, at the end of the day, we have two different kinds of protective parts. in In the realm of of parts work, if we were going to use that as a framework, there are two types of protective parts.
Speaker: And what they're trying to do is help what we would call an exiled part. Now, an exiled part would be the wound. Yeah. Right. So let's just say growing up. Maybe something happened once, maybe something happened over and over and over again. And it left us with some feeling that was just too big, too bold, too much to process with too little support.
Speaker: And so we just kind of kick it to the side. We don't deal with it, right? So some clients will say, I shoved it down, I stuffed it down. Some clients will say, I put it on a shelf. I never addressed it.
Speaker: The part's job is to make sure you never go back there. So it can be anything that prevents that from being touched. We have two different kinds of parts. One is a manager part. That part's very proactive and it's very um socially aware of social constructs and what's right and what's wrong. Okay. So it can be anything that would allow you to show up in a way that doesn't allow you to feel whatever it is you put on the shelf to never deal with. Guilt, shame, fear, extreme sadness, grief, whatever it is, we don't want to touch it.
Speaker: Okay? But it doesn't always work. Like people pleasing doesn't always work. Setting boundaries doesn't always work. Being a perfectionist or an overworker doesn't always work. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: So sometimes we still feel what's on the shelf. In that point, we have another type of protective layer that comes up, and that is what we would call a firefighter. And its job is to put it out, right? So, oh my gosh, you feel shame. Oh my gosh, you feel guilt. You feel extreme sadness, worry. You feel alone. That's a big one, especially for teenagers. Or you have grief. You feel alone on the outside. Like you don't feel connected. And the firefighters...
Speaker: Their job is to soothe, distract, and numb out. Yes. So that can look like a lot of things. Mm-hmm. That can also look like overwork. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: But that can also look like any kind of use of a substance or anything that would be a distractor, like scrolling and trolling, like that doom scrolling, right? Can also be like OCD, like trying to control something. it can be disordered eating or a disordered relationship with a substance. It can also be cutting. Like there are a lot of things that can happen sometimes.
Speaker: um So it really depends on what kind of part, protective part is coming up. Is it one that's proactively trying to avoid or is it one that is actually helping you soothe when the when that big emotion comes forward?
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. ah So what do you do when you see a client whose firefighter is kind of coming online a lot? Yeah, well, they know, right? It's usually why they're coming to me. What we're trying to do is to figure out what the part thinks it's doing for the client. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: The concept in parts work is that all parts are benevolent, meaning they all have a positive intention for showing up.
Speaker: Now, a lot of the things I mentioned wouldn't be perceived as positive. Right. They'd be perceived as a behavior that is bad and we need to stop it immediately. Mm-hmm. But if we don't understand and get curious, really, truly curious and engage with the part to find out what its role, function, purpose and intention is, we're probably not going to stop the behavior.
Speaker: We need to have a better dialogue because my feeling is two things. Number one, we can't heal what we don't understand. And we also can't heal what we hate.
Speaker: And if we hate a part of ourselves, we're not having a relationship. And we need to build a relationship so there's balance. We need some part of us that likes to control. We need some part of us that can be that anxious, responsive part for us when we need it.
Speaker: and But we just sometimes they're off kilter. Yeah. They're not imbalanced within our system. And so we kind of get shadowed out like our self gets shadowed out because we're more parts led. And the goal is to have that harmony so we can coexist within our internal system.
Speaker: Yeah. And I guess I should have mentioned earlier in this conversation that I have been on the receiving side of parts work with my therapist at one point. And my favorite kind of activity was just having my different parts talk to each other. And what do they need to say to each other? And who's in charge? And why are they in charge? So tell us a little bit about like how that could be helpful about bringing that to your conscious awareness about what each part is playing, like what their role is. Yeah, it's really interesting. I just was doing this with a client the other day. So I'm certified in hypnosis as well. So I utilize something known as rapid transformational therapy as a therapeutic model to be done under hypnosis. So a lot of times i like to do what we call direct access to the part. And in order to do that, for me personally, you can do it however you want as a practitioner, but I like to get my client into a hypnosis state or some sort of light trance state that gives us the opportunity to become a little bit more aware of the part or the parts That are present and then start that compassionate inquiry. So like I actually have them the dialogue I use. So I let's just say I was working with you and you were under a very light hypnosis. I might have you say out loud, I'm the part of Laura. I'll use people pleasing. I'm the part of Laura that is the people pleaser part. Hmm.
Speaker: and My only role in Laura's life is, and I would have you repeat that and then just let the blank get filled in. Yeah, yeah. And then whatever I hear, which is usually the same thing from every single client, and then I say, well, why do you need to do that? And what happened that you feel like you needed to come online? And now we're starting that compassionate inquiry without judgment of getting much clearer to try to understand because the part feels very misunderstood.
Speaker: It's usually hated because we say that. I hate this part of myself. I just want to make it stop. This is the language we use very universally.
Speaker: Hey, it's Lara. Let me take a quick minute to talk to the moms wondering, is my teen or young adult just going through a phase? Because sometimes what looks like pulling away, people pleasing or caring way too much about what everyone else thinks is really about something deeper.
Speaker: It can sound like, am I enough? Do I matter? Do I belong? And sure, some of it may pass, but your teen or young adult is figuring out who they are right now, and those questions can shape the choices that they make.
Speaker: That's where I come in. I help teens and young adults build the mindset and skillset for confidence, connection, and direction. If you're wondering what your child might need right now, let's talk about it.
Speaker: Book a free 30-minute discovery call at PositivelyHealthyCoaching.com. We'll talk about what you're seeing, what's underneath, and what might help. Okay, back to the show. I want the part to feel heard and understood. And I use the analogy of ah of a toddler.
Speaker: If you have a toddler that is trying to get your attention and they're pulling on your leg and they're going, mom, mom, mom, mom and you're deeply focused on something else and or you don't want to address it Yeah.
Speaker: They don't just go. okay, I guess she's not going to address me. Like they are now completely like boneless, yeah dragging on your legs, screaming their heads off, trying to get your attention. And if you give them your attention, nothing's weird. They're now so far gone. The tantrum's in such a deep state. They're just going to get bigger, bolder, and louder. And you've lost access to it, right? To to the kid. i feel like the parts are like the boneless toddler. Right.
Speaker: You know, where they're giving you these signs inside your body. There's like little pieces of anxiety or maybe even what we might see is depression or laziness or procrastination.
Speaker: and they're giving you signs that they're present, but we're ignoring them or we don't like it. So we're trying to get rid of it. And it just gets bigger, bolder, and louder. So instead of trying to just cope, I can't stand it when people are like, I just need some tips and tools on how to cope. Okay. Manage it.
Speaker: Coping. I'm like, no no, no. I'm actually going to have you build a relationship with it. They're like, but I hate it I'm like, but you won't at the end. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So that's what I'm trying to do. So they want to be witnessed.
Speaker: yeah These parts want to be heard, understood, valued. And when they do, I feel like inherently the the grip becomes just a little less. Yeah. And then a little less. And it's a process. Until one day they go, oh, my God, I know my intention for you is X, but it's clearly translating into Yeah. And it takes time to get there. But once we can get there, it's magic. So think about parents who are raising a teenager and they're likely dealing with the teenager's parts but not aware of it because they don't know about parts work. Yeah.
Speaker: And now the parents' parts get engaged and come online. And now you're at battle. You've got a war of the parts between the parent part that's now been triggered and online and child part. And there's no winning in that.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things I like to do with parents is to get them to get recognized of when their parts come online and why. It's usually a controlling part because there's usually a lot of shame in parenting. right We feel very bad about our parenting when we're having a hard time with our kids.
Speaker: And try to also seed the child's part and get curious about what's coming forward. Yeah. Okay, so speaking of moms and our parents in general, tell us just a little bit about how your knowledge and expertise plays out in your own family. How has it been beneficial?
Speaker: Listen. I don't know if my kids would agree with this, but I'll just tell you what comes to mind. Yeah. My husband and I ended up taking a very parts work approach at some point to our parenting, really recognizing when we saw our kids come to light and when we saw our kids go offline and when the part was present. And once we could start to recognize that, we kind of knew what to engage on and when to engage and when we were not going to have a good engagement.
Speaker: Right. Because when these parts are really strong, there's no there's no winning with the part. Yeah. Right. It's a double down. And so it shifted the way that we parented because we became much more aware and we might have a conversation and it would end and our child would walk out and my husband would go, oh, my God, did you see that part come online? and I know. Right. So like and it's not to say ours didn't either. Yeah, of course.
Speaker: But it was just it shifted. It allowed you to watch. It's almost like you're watching your parenting from the side from an observer role. Right. And it shifts the dynamic because the kids, especially teenagers, they're trying to individuate. yeah they They don't want to be controlled. They're trying to say what they want to say. And when we as parents say, well, that's ridiculous, or that would mean not a smart thing to say, or what do you mean? It's not a good idea to do that. Then their parts are just going to get bigger and bolder. Right. Right.
Speaker: So that shifted things immensely. And I remember one time having a conversation with my oldest, who's about to be 22. And it's not like we used the term parts work with our kids or like they didn't really know what we were doing. Yeah.
Speaker: I said to him one time, you know, when I witness X, it it makes a part of me very anxious. I get very triggered. And his response was, that sounds like a you problem, not a me problem.
Speaker: Whoa. and me But he was kind of right. No, exactly. like He's like, I can't help you yeah if that's the way you interpret that. He literally said, I can't help you if that's the way you interpret that. That's not my intention.
Speaker: Wow. We didn't mean use that language per se, but he I think just because of the way we organized our home, as far as like relationships were concerned, it just was the natural thing to say. Yeah, it seeped out. like It was seeped out.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, oh, gosh. I was like, I am now becoming the Padawan and I am learning from my child. Yes. Oh, I love those moments. Oh, my gosh. Those are the best. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Okay, so just kind of maybe a final point here is, and this is my perfectionist part coming online today. love it. Yeah. What is the ideal balance, I guess, if maybe that's the right word, of the parts? Because the parts are never going to go away, right? They're always there. they should, right? Yeah.
Speaker: Right. um I think, you know, you feel it internally. We say it. I feel more aligned. I feel more grounded. Look, there's no there's no perfect balance of self and parts in my personal point of view. Hmm.
Speaker: It's do I have access to self? Can I easily engage with myself? Is self online more than it's offline? How do I recognize that? And you do recognize that because you feel more creative. You feel more courageous, more compassionate towards yourself and others. You have confidence, right? yeah um And so therefore you can speak your voice. You're not really worried about other people's opinions. So you know you can feel the shift. Yeah.
Speaker: And that's the goal. it's There's no perfect ratio. It's just in this moment. Do I feel like myself? Can I respond from myself? Because you'll start to recognize, oh, I don't even recognize myself right now. People will say that. I don't even know who that was. Mm, yeah. So you wanna bring yourself back into the mix as much as possible.
Speaker: yeah, yeah, beautiful. Okay, Stacey, how can people find you going forward if they're interested in your work? Yeah, so my website is flippyourmindset.com. That's a great place to go. There's a lot of information there. But also I'm very, very active on Instagram. I use my Instagram as a psychoeducational tool.
Speaker: um as a low cost, no cost resource for people that are looking for support in all these areas. And it's just my name, Stacey Urich on Instagram. Awesome. Thank you so much for the time, Stacey. I so appreciate it. And to all our listeners out there, everyone remember to stay positively healthy. I will see you next time.
Speaker: Thank you. When you get a chance, please go to the show notes and click on the link ratethispodcast.com slash TPHmom to give my podcast a rating and review.
Speaker: And if this episode resonates with you, be sure to share it with your mom friends who are going through the same things. Be sure to tune in for next week's conversation. Until then, keep up the good work.
