Transcript
Speaker: Because inevitably, they are going to lose. Inevitably, they are going to mess up. Inevitably, they're going to get rejected in some way. And again, um practice, practice, practice in these small little safe places. So that way, when they go out into the big real world, um they have had practice learning how to process these feelings.
Speaker: Hello and welcome to the Positively Healthy Mom podcast where positive parenting meets wellbeing. I'm your host, Laura Ollinger, teen and young adult life coach and founder of Positively Healthy Coaching.
Speaker: So I've been thinking a lot about the conversations on social media lately regarding the sexual assault case in New York at Cornell University. And the message that I keep seeing is kind of just rubbing me the wrong way a little bit. The message that I've been seeing is teach your sons, teach your sons, teach your sons.
Speaker: I say that three times because it feels very kind of ah luxury, let's say, um from some people, not everyone, about consent. And so absolutely, ah i agree 100%. We absolutely need to teach our sons about consent. They need to understand boundaries, respect, what it means to have sex with someone who actually wants to be there. um But after years of you know teaching and coaching, working with teens and families and raising my own sons,
Speaker: I think that that is doing a disservice if we're only talking about the consent piece. Now, I get that that is like kind of the forefront in the situation when it comes to the legal part of the case.
Speaker: um But I'm not here to talk. I'm not a lawyer. I'm not here to talk about the law. I'm talking about the conversation about what causes or what are the circumstances that a teenage boy or college young man would think that sexual assault is okay in any way and any time. And so here's the thing. Most boys already know, they do know that sexual assault is wrong.
Speaker: They are aware that you should not be forcing anyone into having sex. They know that taking advantage of a girl who is too intoxicated or has been drugged to make any type of a decision what for herself about what she wants is wrong.
Speaker: Right. So the question that I keep coming back to is what makes someone know something is wrong and do it anyway? Right. And so that's where, again, that consent piece seems like it's the answer. But there's just so much more to it.
Speaker: So I think we need to look at what our boys are learning about women from our culture, um what they believe about masculinity and sex, and how they handle rejection, right? And whether they see other people as individuals whose feelings and boundaries matter.
Speaker: And as a mom who is raising two teen boys myself, um and just to preface, if you're new to the show, I do have a daughter who's in college. That's why this topic is very um strong for me right now as far as my reaction. And I also have a younger daughter. So I'm kind of looking at this from all angles, but as a mom who's raising sons, I want to have this conversation without treating boys as though they're inherently the problem.
Speaker: I was actually having a ah Facebook message in chat with an old friend the other day. And she is raising she's a single mom raising a boy and a girl. And she's sharing with me that she's terrified about raising her son the right way.
Speaker: And the message she was kind of giving is that boys are kind of inherently... evil or problematic. and I wrote her back and I said, you know, I know so many good, good-hearted boys. And they would, in a heartbeat, if they saw something happening, and this is including my own sons, in a heartbeat, if they saw something wrong, they would stop it. They would intervene. They do not want anyone to be hurt, especially a girl in this situation.
Speaker: um And so I want the thing is I want our boys to feel good about who they are. I want them to grow up into men who are confident, respectful, strong, and kind. And I think we can hold these expectations while being honest about the things that we need to address.
Speaker: So let's talk about a few places where we as parents can make a difference. So first question is, what is he learning about women? Our teenagers are growing up in a world where they can encounter all kinds of messages about women and relationships. um Some social media influencers promote the idea that men need to dominate women, that women are manipulative or that they're bad, or that a man's value comes from how much money he makes or how much power he has or how many women he can attract.
Speaker: So how do we know if our sons are absorbing these messages? Because inevitably they're going to see something, right? It's not this, the prevention of seeing these messages is, I think most people would agree, almost impossible. The question is, to what extent is he absorbing them? Is he internalizing them?
Speaker: So we want to first you know pay attention to how he talks about girls. What are the what is the language that he's using? um Does he make sweeping statements about women as a whole?
Speaker: Does he talk about a girl who rejected him as though um she's the problem? Does he repeat things that suggest women owe men attention or affection? Yeah.
Speaker: So one comment doesn't necessarily tell you everything about what your son believes. Teenagers repeat things they've heard for all sorts of reasons. And what's important is whether those ideas are becoming part of who he is and how he views and treats other people.
Speaker: So I would just get curious. um If you've heard me ah talk before, if you heard my podcast, you know it's about being curious and not critical. And and that's how you open up a conversation and keep the conversation going. um Because this the thing is, this is not a one-time conversation.
Speaker: This is everyday life, right? And it doesn't mean you're talking about it every day, but you're just as a parent being kind of aware and and noticing just the vibe from your kids every day. And so you might ask just a curious question, you know, do you actually agree with what that guy is saying about women? You know, if you do so notice him watching someone that you might not be a huge fan of. or Curious question. What do you think makes that influencer so popular?
Speaker: And you don't need to turn every conversation into a lecture. In fact, um that will certainly backfire on you. So sometimes just a good question gives you a much better understanding as to what your son is thinking and what he's absorbing and and what he believes.
Speaker: And if he's repeating something that's degrading, I would certainly address that and help him think about whether it's fair, whether it's true, and how it affects the way he's seeing other people.
Speaker: So we can't control everything our sons encounter online, obviously, but we can help them develop, I call it discernment or judgment to question what they're hearing and what they're seeing.
Speaker: So next area is talking about, you know, a lot of people say boys will be boys, right? And so the question is, when does locker room talk cross the line?
Speaker: So I think we all need to um talk about how locker room talk is because I know that this can be a sensitive subject for parents of boys. So boys do joke around, right? Like that's one of my favorite things about having sons is they're just silly. They're funny. They like to laugh. They like to tease each other.
Speaker: And sometimes they are going to be talking about girls that they like or girls that they're attracted to. And sometimes, you know, behind closed doors, again, in the locker room, so to speak, um they might say immature things to get a laugh.
Speaker: And we don't need to treat every inappropriate joke as evidence that our sons have some type of a problem or that it's super serious. But we also shouldn't dismiss everything as just boys being boys, right? There's a difference between joking around with friends.
Speaker: and Versus repeatedly humiliating girls or degrading them based on their appearance, sharing intimate pictures without their permission, or actually sharing intimate pictures ever, um certainly not without permission, um or laughing about you know taking advantage of someone who is too intoxicated or who has been drugged, right? like That is where we're crossing the line, certainly. um And so I have a personal story to share real quick.
Speaker: Several years ago at the high school where my kids go, um some boys made a Google slideshow, which had ah probably about, I think, 10 to 20 girls in their high school on it.
Speaker: And it broke each girl apart, body part by body part, rated them by their body parts on a scale of one to 10. And let's just say they were not calling them body parts. They were using very explicit language.
Speaker: And then used another word that I don't want to say on my podcast today, but it let's just say it was their um level of attraction in a sexual way. um Again, this was a Google slideshow that got out and it was shared all over the school.
Speaker: Kids saw it. Parents saw it. And it was just so hurtful and harmful. Right. So what's what started off as maybe, um you know, guy talk turned into something extremely unhealthy, extremely negative, extremely harmful. um And I know there's going to be somebody right now that's saying, you know what, girls do the same thing.
Speaker: I certainly have also heard girls talking about boys in the same manner, and maybe not to the level of explicit language, um but certainly rating them on their appearance. um So i just want to make sure that everyone knows that no matter whether it's boys doing it or girls doing it It's really not a healthy thing to do to be breaking someone down into piece by piece, rating them on on a number. Again, just if you wouldn't want it done to you, then I would recommend people not do it to others. Again, the golden rule.
Speaker: um And so like kind of question about this is like, is this a ah joke at someone else's expense? Is this rating someone at someone else's expense? And when it is, um i would have to say that's not okay.
Speaker: And so what happens when someone does say a joke that isn't funny? um Does your son son and maybe even daughter, do they think about it? Or do they kind of join into the group? Or do they stand up and say, guys, that's not cool, right? Like, ah What is their, I'm just curious, like what is their level of involvement in something like that? That's a question you can talk to them about.
Speaker: um And so a lot of times there is going to be this gray area, right, where it was just like, oh, it was a joke. It's funny. um We're bonding, right? But when it gets to something dangerous, such as violating someone's boundaries, coercing someone by using drugs or alcohol, exploiting anyone in any way. And I would certainly say that Google Slideshow fell into exploitation, right? Because we're getting something back from that at someone else's expense.
Speaker: Hey, it's Laura. Let me take a quick minute to talk to the moms wondering, is my teen or young adult just going through a phase? Because sometimes what looks like pulling away, people pleasing or caring way too much about what everyone else thinks is really about something deeper.
Speaker: It can sound like, am I enough? Do I matter? Do I belong? And sure, some of it may pass, but your teen or young adult is figuring out who they are right now, and those questions can shape the choices that they make.
Speaker: That's where I come in. I help teens and young adults build the mindset and skill set for confidence, connection, and direction. If you're wondering what your child might need right now, let's talk about it.
Speaker: Book a free 30-minute discovery call at PositivelyHealthyCoaching.com. We'll talk about what you're seeing, what's underneath, and what might help. Okay, back to the show. So can we let our boys be boys without teaching them that being a boy is bad or is an excuse to treat someone else badly?
Speaker: um So let's talk about self-worth, um some kind of rejection. um That's one of my favorite topics to talk about, and entitlement. So this is where I think our work as parents goes deeper than simply teaching rules, right? So how does your son handle rejection? How does your son handle a know Even from you, right? When we are, um you know, in our ideal parenting, if you've heard me talk about parenting styles before, um you know that the ideal parenting style is warmth.
Speaker: and boundaries. And you know not to call anybody out here, but a lot of times the helicopter moms, when their son is sad or their their daughter or any of their kids are sad, they kind of give in they cave. um A lot of times moms struggle with holding a boundary. And so if your child cannot handle a boundary,
Speaker: what does that say about them in the future, right? Like, will they be able to handle a boundary in the future? And so I would encourage moms right now who do, you know, and I'm saying this in the most loving way, find themselves to be softies, um you know, kind of giving in, kind of caving I just want you encourage you're you to think about yourself and how is that setting up your child for the future? When they are rejected or they are told a no by someone else that's not you, you know, are they prepared for that?
Speaker: And so also what happens when a girl isn't interested in him? um is it... bruising his ego? Is it making him, you know, lash out or retaliate in some way?
Speaker: And so it's just the idea that, you know, rejection can be painful being told no it no one enjoys that, right? But that is part of development. That is part of from the child. The time your child is is little, and they need to know there certain things that are okay.
Speaker: There are certain things that are not okay, right? And a lot of times that's safety purposes. But as they get older, it's, you know, we don't hit our siblings. We don't hit our friends. We don't violate their personal space or their boundaries.
Speaker: And so it's kind of just like building this identity of confidence, but someone who can handle pain or rejection. And that is the sign of strength. And that is a sign of a well-raised child when they can handle that.
Speaker: and And there's a difference between a boy who feels disappointed, right? That's okay. Everyone feels disappointed. And a boy who believes he's entitled to someone's attention, affection, or their body.
Speaker: And this is one reason why I care so much about helping teens and young adults develop a healthy sense of self-worth. Because when a boy believes that he has to prove himself to his buddies, right, through sexual conquests, bragging, um gain popularity, gain attention, or approval from other guys— he may feel pressure to act in ways that don't normally reflect his values, right? Like we all know what peer pressure is. You can have the best um conversation. Your child can know a certain thing. um But when they are in a group of peers, they are are going to act differently. That is just the way the brain works.
Speaker: So self-worth alone doesn't prevent sexual assault, of course, but helping boys understand their value, um helping them to regulate their emotions, to manage uncomfortable feelings,
Speaker: And to respect other people's choices is such an important part of raising an emotionally mature young man. So we can love our sons, we can validate their feelings, and still hold firm the boundaries around how to treat others.
Speaker: So specifically for boy moms, like I want us to be proud of our sons. I want to spend a moment here because I think that this is so important. Kind of going back to the conversation I was having over Facebook Messenger with my friend, I really want my friend to feel proud of her son. I don't want him to grow up feeling there's something wrong with him because he's a boy.
Speaker: And I understand that like, you know, this whole like message I was talking about the beginning, like teach your sons, teach your sons. um I have to say that kind of did rub me the wrong way. And it it can definitely make moms feel defensive. So it could sound as though boys as an entire um group are being blamed for the actions of a few certain individuals.
Speaker: And granted, it's not just a few. This is happening on college campuses everywhere in every part of the United States and the world. um Not only is the Cornell case big in the news, but right before that happened, I heard in the news, um by the way, i don't love to hear about these things, but it's on my feed a lot because I think my algorithm knows that my daughter's in college. My algorithm knows that I work with teens and young adults and my algorithm knows that I care deeply.
Speaker: So I get a lot of these headlines. And just at the University of Tennessee over Labor Day weekend, um there were three druggings. And again, alleged is the word that I guess I have to use, sexual assaults. Multiple other campuses. I know um Wisconsin and Madison had a recent incident. Again, I have a whole list of of schools. So this is not just a few. This is happening a lot and in a lot of places.
Speaker: But the thing is that boys are not inherently dangerous people. We don't need to raise our sons to feel ashamed of being male. We don't need to assume the worst about them. um Yes, we know that boys like sex and and that they enjoy that, but that doesn't put them into the automatic perpetrator category, right? Some boys are just good boys.
Speaker: and we And we can celebrate the things that we love about them, right? Their humor, their competitiveness, their courage, their loyalty to their friends, their willingness to take on challenges. We can encourage strength and leadership while also teaching them um that those qualities come with responsibility.
Speaker: In fact, think about what real loyalty looks like. Being a good friend doesn't mean backing your buddy no matter what. um Sometimes it means being honest with your buddy when he's wrong, right? Calling him out.
Speaker: Real strength doesn't mean getting your way. it can mean accepting rejection, accepting defeat, admitting a mistake, or refusing to participate when your friends are doing something harmful.
Speaker: Part of the reason why I think kids participating in sports other activities are so healthy and important developmentally Because inevitably, they are going to lose. Inevitably, they are going to mess up. Inevitably, they're going to get rejected in some way. And again, um practice, practice, practice in these small little safe places. So that way, when they go out into the big real world, um they have had practice at learning how to process these feelings.
Speaker: Again, I want our boys and our sons to feel proud of who they are becoming. I want them to be confident. um But being proud doesn't doesn't mean defending everything your son says or does, right? I do know some parents who will defend their child to the ends of the earth. Like, oh, it wasn't his fault. He didn't know. Or it was, you know, he it's not him. Or it's everybody else's fault, right?
Speaker: And this is hard, right? This is hard because it's triggering these emotions of shame. And in moms, right, in in moms, when you have a son who does something wrong or in your own son, when he does something wrong.
Speaker: And here's the thing. There's a difference between shame and guilt. um If you've heard Brene Brown or anybody else talk about the differences, um guilt is when something somebody does something wrong. um Shame is when someone is wrong. They are bad people, right? um so I want to differentiate that for sure.
Speaker: Because sometimes, inevitably, a boy might hurt someone. They might hurt a girl. And in order to heal from that so that they don't go on to do it again, they need to process those feelings. um And again, this goes both ways, right? Girls certainly do things that hurtful to boys as well.
Speaker: But we need to hold them accountable. They need to take responsibility. If they have made a mistake and they have hurt someone, they need to own up to it. And so how can they do that? Well, first and foremost, um they need to see us doing that, right? I mean, one of the most benign ways of doing this, I know, in my house is when one of us messes up, you know, we kind of say, my bad, right? My bad. That's not the best way to really take ownership. That's more of a lighthearted way of doing it. If it's something kind of deeper or or more severe, um you know, we really need to say, I messed up. Like, I didn't intend to hurt you. um I want to make it better. I want to make it right. I want to learn from this so that way it doesn't happen again.
Speaker: And so what can we start doing today, right? I think there's a few things. um Number one is stay curious about the world that your son is growing up in. Ask about the people he follows and the things that his friends say and the messages he encounters about women and relationships.
Speaker: And is he internalizing them and really acting on those? Or is it something he's observing, but he's having discernment, right? He's observing and realizing this is wrong.
Speaker: i would never talk about a woman that way. i would never treat a woman that way. Second is don't ignore uncomfortable moments. So Man, a lot of times moms run away from uncomfortable conversations. I mean, not everybody, right? Some moms go straight for it, but um sometimes things can be uncomfortable. And so if your son does make a degrading comment or expresses some type of an unhealthy view or belief, it is, I believe, our responsibilities as moms and parents to address it.
Speaker: Right? Because if we don't address it, who's going to? So I would encourage you to ask questions, explain why you're concerned, help him understand your point of view, and and ask him to think about what the impact is of his words and his actions.
Speaker: And third, keep talking about it. Of course, consent, um rejection, empathy, and having accountability as he gets older. So don't just assume that one conversation is enough. These are things, these are lessons that develop in everyday interactions through the way we treat people ourselves. How are we talking about others? How are we treating others?
Speaker: And if we have a spouse, a co-parent, how are we treating each other? And this is all done at home. These are expectations of what is appropriate behavior in our home.
Speaker: And then we can't control every decision that our sons will ever make, especially when they're adults, once they go to college. That's the hardest part, right? Like they're they're out of our sight, We can't control them. All we can do is hope that we did the best we did with the time that we had with them. But that doesn't mean our job is done, right? These are still conversations that can continue forever. And we just need to help them develop like the values and the judgment to make decisions that they can feel proud of and that they can stand behind.
Speaker: I want our boys to understand that a woman's worth doesn't depend on what she wears, how much she drinks, whether she's interested in them. i want them to understand that attraction doesn't create entitlement.
Speaker: And another person's boundaries matter. These are human beings. And I also want them to know that being a good man is something to be proud of. We can raise boys who feel good about themselves um and also to respect other people and take responsibility for their choices.
Speaker: So that's the conversation I think we need to be having Thank you so much for joining me today on the Positively Healthy Mom. I would love to know about your reaction to this conversation. Please share this episode. And as always, keep asking questions.
Speaker: Sometimes we have to get over the discomfort. um Sometimes we have to go deeper and things can be harder. But at the end of the day, This is our job, right, to raise these young men. And it is the most important job in the world. I will never stop believing that.
Speaker: We are responsible for the future to the extent that we can be as far as how we teach our boys. So thanks for tuning in today. See next time.
Speaker: When you get a chance, please go to the show notes and click on the link ratethispodcast.com slash tphmom to give my podcast a rating and review.
Speaker: And if this episode resonates with you, be sure to share it with your mom friends who are going through the same things. Be sure to tune in for next week's conversation. Until then, keep up the good work.
