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Episode 8 - The Legend of the Windigo and Somerton Man
9 Plays14 days ago
Nylene is getting excited for winter holidays, so Nym sets the scene with wintery legend, the Windigo. Nylene takes Nym on an adventure with her first time hearing the story of the Somerton Man.
Enter the Nightmare for transcript, sources, and full show notes.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Theme
00:00:29
Speaker
Welcome to Nim and Nyleen's Nightmare Cottage, where we discuss dark locations, sinister media, and other tales of the macabre. I'm Nim. And I'm Nyleen. Let the nightmare begin.
Holiday Preparations and Traditions
00:00:59
Speaker
Super solstice time. We survived Thanksgiving. Yes. And now it's Christmas. For the whole month. I can finally Christmas. Did Mr. Ace let you put up the Christmas tree? Okay, so see what that happened. was I just got so busy that I didn't have time to like pull stuff out. So we just got it all pulled out. Gonna get it out. It's gonna be great. I'm still trying to convince him to go on the roof and put on lights. He's trying to convince me to spend a lot of money for permanent ones. But that's not realistic.
00:01:32
Speaker
Why don't you meet in the middle and have somebody else put him up for you? Oh, you mean the Christmas lights? Yeah, no, he refuses to pay for it. I don't know if it's like a manly manly man thing. He also won't let me get on the ladder to do it. I'm like, you're afraid of heights. Like, you should let me do it. And he's like, no, because then if you fall off, I'm the asshole. And I'm like, that's fair, but either way.
00:01:53
Speaker
So that's where we're at. How about you? I had every plan. Thanksgiving is always just me and monkey. We really love it that way. It's it's very quiet. I wake up early. I start cooking. I watch the parade. And then we put up our Christmas stuff after we eat and everything. So that was the plan. Well, first I couldn't find the bin that had the Christmas tree in it.
00:02:14
Speaker
That's not good. No, it wasn't great. And we looked everywhere and then it was at the it was it was somewhere I should have found it early. Oh, course of course. And then I go to plug it in. It's a it's a you know, it's a fake tree. It's it's a tall skinny black tree and it has its pre lit. Well, those somewhere along the line, those lights did not work anymore. No.
00:02:35
Speaker
And you can't put ornaments on it until you have lights on it because, anyway, so I couldn't decorate my tree, but he was a trooper and got out and we put out all the lights on the house and we still have some shenanigans to do with some skeletons out there, but the lights are up. I ordered some lights to go on that got here just before I came to the cottage to record, so... To go on the tree? To go on the tree. Okay. So I have... Do you think Grandma threw the tree through them?
00:03:02
Speaker
No, he's not interested in the Christmas tree. I know because I had a cat once and it was not it was not okay with that tree. like It was in the tree. it destroyed It destroyed the tree. It was not okay. Yeah, he doesn't super care. I remember last year he did bat at a couple of ornaments, but he lost interest in this. In all fairness, he queued up off the ground too. Not this one because it's too tall. It sits on the floor. In fact, actually it's in the spot where his scratchy pads usually
Winter Folklore and Wendigo Legends
00:03:29
Speaker
go. For some reason he thought it was...
00:03:32
Speaker
I used to have the shorter one that went up on that stand. Yeah. But now I have that tall one that it's skinny, which works for the space. Anyways, this is all boring. Nobody cares. But I got the lights right before we came here. So I put the lights up in like three ornaments and I was like, okay, I'll come back. So when I get home from the cottage, I will be finishing that up. I did get some stuff to put outside these little like candy canes and stuff, just because the neighbors are across the street always, who they have the really cool jellyfish lights. Yeah.
00:04:00
Speaker
So they always decorate and go all out and look all cool. And I'm kind of feel like a jerk. You have to look at my house and my house is always like really dark because it's, oh, by the way, yeah, my house is the only really dark one surrounded by a white houses. I'm familiar with that. So yeah, so that's ah an additional plus. So I'm trying to brighten it up for Christmas. I'm so excited. I know we're supposed to be spooky people. I am a spooky person when the time is right to be spooky. Sorry about you. You're just always spooky.
00:04:30
Speaker
I'm not sorry about it. This is always the time to be spooky. I'm actually going to talk about that in a bit.
00:04:43
Speaker
So tell me about your spooky things. Oh, is it that time? i if you If you want it to be that time? It can be that time. Today, I'm going to be talking about the wind to go. Are you familiar? So a little bit, but I can't remember a lot about it. Okay. Do you remember where you saw it in nature or like where you found it out in the world? Yes, I was walking through the forest. No, it was funny enough. It was the show Supernatural. That's okay. I think that was like one of the first things they run across or were like one of the first big things they run across.
00:05:17
Speaker
And so that was one of the big ones that like really drew me into the show. But yeah, that's that's where I remember it from. And it was so long ago. I'll talk about mine in a second. Now, this is like the Windegos are actually a North American folklore bit um in the Appalachian Mountains, Northeast US, and into Canada. Oh, that area where people are always disappearing.
00:05:37
Speaker
you know, where the spooky stuff happens. I picked this because, well, I mean, okay, so obviously fall is my favorite in principle, but winter, well, I guess the idea that we live in the South and it's 2024. So the idea of winter. Hey, we had snow last year, it's just in the stick.
00:05:54
Speaker
Okay.
00:05:57
Speaker
anyway Anyway. Anyways, as much as I love fall, I absolutely adore winter because it's that dark time of the year. You know, we have the least amount of sunlight because we're in the northern hemisphere. There's that stillness outside. I love that stillness. Yes. And I know it's that season for all things that go bump in the night. I think we're going to talk about over, you know, maybe another episode or so about how many winter solstice or winter holiday or just winter based creatures and cryptids and folklore and whatever, like there's so much. I didn't realize Windigos were a winter base. Yeah, so we'll get into that in just a moment. My first encounter with the Windigo was actually from Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark. I remember those, but I don't remember. when Actually, I don't really remember. I remember reading them. I don't remember them. So that one didn't really super stick with me then. I know I had read it because I've read those books.
00:06:45
Speaker
all the way through many, many times. That one, I guess, wasn't one of my favorites. So it didn't really stick with me. It wasn't part of my headcanon spooky stuff until adulthood, really. There's this video game I played in like 2012, 2013 ish called Secret World. It was an MMO, like a massively multiplayer online game.
00:07:03
Speaker
And it was that game was just amazing and incredible. But that one of the boss fights in there was a window go. And every single trail up to the boss fights in that all had like a big epic story that went with it. And then you got it as like a big statue to put in your face. And so I had this big bad secret world. I think it might actually still be playable. I don't know i wonder if you can still find it. It was really great. I love that. Yeah, that was my first real noticeable encounter with a Wendigo that really stuck with me and I've kind of been fascinated with them ever since. Okay, the Wendigo derives from the folklore of the Algonquin language family of the Native American tribes throughout Appalachia, which is I think there's there's several tribes, there's countless ways like something like 30, maybe not countless, 30 something ways to spell it based on which tribe it came from. They kind of all had a version of this.
00:07:52
Speaker
The physical appearance changes depending on where in the timeline you encounter one and a bit from tribe to tribe. The earliest descriptions feel almost like modern day zombie vibes. Native author and ethnographer Basil Johnston described them as such.
00:08:07
Speaker
quote The Wendigo was gaunt to the point of emaciation, its desiccated skin pulled tightly over its bones. With its bones pushing out over its skin, its complexion, the ash gray of death, and its eyes pushed back deep into the sockets. The Wendigo looked like a gaunt skeleton recently disinterred from the grave.
00:08:25
Speaker
What Lipset had were tattered and bloody, unclean and suffering from the separations of the flesh. The Wendigo gave off a strange and eerie odor of decay and decomposition of death and corruption." end So two things. One, kind of sounds like a goal, right? Yeah.
00:08:40
Speaker
I don't know the difference. And then two, this is going to sound fucked up. But like, I mean, during that time, people weren't living that long, right? And it was like a hard life. Like, can you imagine what being old during that time was like? What if they were just like looking at some like really old ass people who couldn't even take care of themselves? They were literally just like starving to death. And they're like, oh, she's the one to go run away.
00:09:03
Speaker
So we'll get to that. Oh, God. Yeah. Okay. Well, so no, what that's not the... I will tell you right now, it's not just some poor old person because most of these people did not live that. Yeah. So I was like, maybe it was that one. You know, there's always that one that you're like, she's a witch. Right. Because she's lived to be 30. You know?
00:09:23
Speaker
Damn. I feel ancient. But yes, that's the original initial, like the earliest descriptions that we can find sound like that will sound like that classic zombie kind of situation. Okay. Some tribes described the Wendigo as an icy giant that would grow to the size of the person they would eat, or grow additionally the size of the person they would eat and become larger and larger. So if they ate someone that was like five foot, and they're already five foot, they would be 10 foot? Yeah, basically.
00:09:47
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah. um and i'll And I'll talk a little bit more about that later as well. But again, more on the descriptions as they've changed over time. As colonists came in and interacted with the Algonquin tribes, a Jesuit priest likened the description of the Wendigo to the European werewolves in their actions and- Like how they change form almost? Yeah. Well, not how they, but their ferocity. Okay. And how they ravage flesh and things like that. Oh goodness.
00:10:10
Speaker
And that also kind of lent itself to the description, the ever changing descriptions of these beasts. Fast forward to 1910, author Algernon Blackwood released a novella called The Wendigo. And this is actually you're probably when you search for The Wendigo online, this is going to be what you find the most of is going to be references to this story. And basically, it is the story of some colonists that are being led by a native ah to find furs. And at some point, one of the colonists gets super, super hungry, and it's really cold, and they don't have any rations or whatever. And so he resorts to cannibalism and turns into a wendig. Oh my goodness.
00:10:46
Speaker
So that's basically what the story is. Yeah, the scary stories to tell in the dark version is basically that story but rewritten and they made the native the one that resorts to cannibalism. So that wasn't super great. Goodness. Yeah, I don't remember those stories. I remember I used to like them. But you know, a lot of the things that we liked in our childhood did not age well. Right. And PC wise, I will say that a lot of it still holds up. And I'll talk about that more later. But but that one, that's not so great.
00:11:14
Speaker
But that's that's when you're looking for it online, that's going to be mainly what you see. But the reason I bring it up now is that there was a 1945 reprint of the story that included illustrations by an artist named Matt Fox. And it showed the creature with antlers like a like a stag. Yeah, they had those in Skyrim. Right. So while there's no previous mention of antlers on any of the the texts and the stories that we've received from the actual tribes, they evolved or they put on armor.
00:11:40
Speaker
Sure. Or I will say that once that happened, it it captured the imagination of a bunch of storytellers and artists and many pop culture iterations of the Wendigo feature, the stag-like feature today. Like if you do a Google image search for Wendigo, it is definitely, it took me a while to find the pictures that i I have included in my notes of ones that don't have the antlers. And that was actually the original descriptions. I wonder if the ones in Supernatural did. I don't i don't think the clip I saw when I was doing my research had antlers, but the ones from some of the other ones did.
00:12:10
Speaker
but they aren't noted as Wendigos when you search them. soundring yeah So while most of the sources I found say that they have no idea why they switched to the antlers, I did a bunch of digging around and after finding that art and and some kind of commentary about some of the people online, it seems like what he knew, what the artist knew about Native Americans, he like just applied here. And it makes it seem almost like the like he was taking from the skinwalkers at the Navajo, where they take take part of an animal, ah a fur or a skull or something like that. And they can transform into that. Yeah. So I'm thinking he just took what he knew about Native Americans in general and created the art. This is his rendition of that's horrible. Yeah, that's that's art from the book.
00:12:55
Speaker
I find this really fascinating when ah since I've been covering a lot of folklore. Folklore never stops evolving. Cultures continue to evolve these stories and adapt them in unexpected ways. While I usually really want to just dig into the super origins of a thing, it does feel worth exploring how we adapted these legends and stories over time. It does super concern me when things are super whitewashed, like having the colonists Yeah, you know, do but it's it's it is inevitable. It is something that we, you know, acknowledge, especially in history. Absolutely. Yeah. And it should be acknowledged. But it's largely a verbal tradition. So the telephone game was even doing its thing back then. These creatures are what we make them when we tell their stories. And I just think that's neat. I wonder what was in the library of Alexandria. about
00:13:37
Speaker
I know. I think about that all the time now. So probably actually nothing because these sightings and experiences of the Wendigo, the stories of the Wendigo really kind of started when the colonists came over and were, you know, that they were displacing resources and destroying the balance of things because they were using up so much of what the land had. So when these harsh ass winters, instead of them having what they were used to having, all of these other assholes are in here catching the game and getting the meat and the furs and and all of those things. And so there's not enough to go around. Yeah. So that's why we get the yeah, that's when we start. Right. And so now we're starving. So now we're going to be cannibals. But all right. So we've talked about what it looks like.
00:14:17
Speaker
So, but we haven't really talked about what it is and what it does super much. Wendigo's are usually former humans that were overtaken by greed. So they are taken by the spirit of the Wendigo. They become insatiably hungry, just ravenous. No matter how much they eat, they're always starving. no That's like the part I mentioned about the ice giants that grow to the size of the people that eat. they They're never full. They just can't get enough. Yeah.
00:14:38
Speaker
And they were also cannibals, which we mentioned. I mentioned the geographic region. It's generally the Northeast US and Canada. They have super harsh winters. And if a whole genre of horror can be believed, there's a lot of terrifying shit out there. So these tales were also developing when colonizers were overtaken the area, like I was mentioning, and they're destroying the balance of the natural supply and demand. Resources were becoming more scarce. so And I don't know if you know this, but cannibalism is generally frowned upon in most cultures. I wouldn't think so. Not sure if you were aware of that.
00:15:06
Speaker
The Algonquins found it to be most heinous. So when they found themselves in a harsh winter, with little to no food or warmth, maybe they would start to get a rumbly in their tumbly that only hands could satisfy. Oh god. Cannibalism is the worst, but when you're starving and miserable, maybe your wife and child might start to look a little bit yummy.
00:15:22
Speaker
That's horrible. So these were cautionary tales told to encourage moderation, discourage greed, and generally warn against putting yourself before the good of the tribe. Being selfish could attract the spirit of the Wendigo. If you wanted to skip the being selfish part, the surefire way to go Wendigo was cannibalism. These were deep-seated beliefs that actually ended up turning into murder trials. There were cases where natives were convicted as murderers. Their defense was that they were killing Wendigos, which was legal in their world. But it still counted as murdering in Canadian common law, regardless of whether the tribe was aware of the law or not. I was gonna say, I wonder, could they tell they were when it goes? Or did they go back to normal form after you killed them? Well, they didn't. Because you said like something similar to shapeshifters, right? And so that's why I wonder. So it it depends on the story. Because a lot of them, it's that, you know, they they catch it, and then they just become more and more emaciated as like, it's a slow, it's a slow turn. I assume they were human corpses that they found when when they were talking about the the victims. Yeah, I'm just like imagining like, how they tried to justify it, like, no, I promise, it was
00:16:21
Speaker
emaciated when I found it, you know what I mean? Right, right. Yeah, just thought. Something that struck me as I was researching was how similar this all feels to modern day zombies. So these were cautionary tales about overconsumption, taking more resources than one was due, becoming a once human mindless husk that just needs to feed and always needs to feed. and I've consumed a goodly amount of zombie fiction in all of its various forms, and among some of the most common themes are greedy consumerism, mindless insatiable consumption, once human monsters. So many zombie stories are actually commentary on human behavior, displacing and disrupting the status quo by fucking eating the status quo. And the earliest physical descriptions of the Wendigos I was mentioning are pretty similar to what a modern day zombie looks like. the Recently interred from the grave, the the flaps of skin all over the face and bones protruding and stuff. Sounds like a zombie. They're both creatures of gluttony, greed, and excessive violence, and they serve as warnings. To wrap up, there's a lot of, Wendigo's have hit the mainstream of storytelling somewhat. In the show Hannibal, there's a Wendigo creature, which super makes sense given the cannibalism. no And there was a Wendigo, as you mentioned, in Supernatural. There's one in Charmed. Oh yeah, there was one in Charmed. I forgot about that. That one I have warrants?
00:17:34
Speaker
No, I think it was I get their names mixed up, but it was um the old Holly, the oldest sister. Yeah. Turning, I think, or something. I don't know the clip that they showed. Okay. There's also been movies dedicated to Wendigo, such as ravenous and antlers are in video games and like as I said, secret world until dawn was and like almost and like the main bad thing was the window. to go There was a window going Marvel Comics even. But yeah, that's the window. Go. That's the wind.
00:18:01
Speaker
You're fired. I'm not getting paid.
00:18:09
Speaker
Well, that was fascinating. ah Things that I did not know. Now I'm actually more curious and I kind of want to rewatch some of those episodes to see what the different portrayals were like. so Yeah, I will say that there was a really cool and one of my it's gonna be linked in the show notes because it was my main reference but there was there's a show on PBS called Monstrum. I actually got stuff from Baba Yaga for that and I got stuff for this and just going through those episodes. I'm like, I have content for ever here. Monstrum on PBS and it's free. All you have to do is like make an account and then if you if you pledge $60 for the year, you have full access to all their stuff that there's so much stuff on there for free and Monstrum is one of them and if you like our stuff, It's probably something you would dig. Cool. I don't even know PBS was still a thing. It absolutely is. Because I know like some stuff got shut down like on actual public television. Right. That's a whole other story. Yes. But please support PBS. It's green. We need it. Agreed.
00:19:07
Speaker
You ready for mine? I'm always ready. Okay. Let me and take a little sip sip first. You're supposed to put the other pinky out, not this pinky. You're supposed to put the pinky you're drinking with. I'm so fancy, I use both pinkies.
00:19:21
Speaker
Okay, so this is a long one. That's what she said. Okay, all right. Real mature. Yeah.
The Somerton Man Mystery
00:19:29
Speaker
The case I'm going over today is the Tom and Shud case, also known as the mystery of the Somerton man. Have you heard about this one? I have heard of it. I've seen it in the peripherals. I don't know anything about it. Interesting. Okay, it's a doozy.
00:19:44
Speaker
and a half and it's long and confusing, but bear with me. Okay, so our story begins on December 1st of 1948 in Summerton Park, Australia. Around 7 a.m., police are called to investigate a man's body that was on the beach. Upon arriving, the police found a deceased man sitting upright against a sea wall and had a partially smoked but unlit cigarette lying on his shoulder.
00:20:10
Speaker
This I thought was a little odd, right? Like was he smoking it and like maybe like, you know what I mean? Like his head fell over and like, or just some asshole walking by just left a partially spoke cigarette on someone they thought was like passed out. I didn't think about that. I was like, maybe like the murderer did it, but yeah, that would be interesting too. Yeah. Just an asshole tourist or something.
00:20:31
Speaker
tourism I don't know what area this is in, so I don't know. It's in Summerton Park, Australia. Is that a super populated area? or is Oh, that I don't know. okay I thought you meant like, yeah, it's Australia. i don't I don't know anything about Australia. What was even more odd about the whole situation is that he seemed to be wearing dry clothing. So it's not like he like drowned and like washed up or something. He had no signs of injury or assault on him. So my first thought would be like maybe a heart attack or something.
00:20:59
Speaker
but like the police thought it looked really suspicious, so they started investigating. Why did it seem suspicious? That is what we're about to get into. Okay. That's why I was like, yeah, I would have just been like, a dude got drunk and died. and I don't know. Right? like but so The police reported ah police report stated the following. He appeared to be of British descent and well dressed, and his pockets was an unused second-class rail ticket, a bus ticket.
00:21:24
Speaker
Two hair combs, a half-eaten pack of juicy fruit gum. Can you believe it's been around that long? Like, I didn't realize it's been around since, like, at least the 40s. Like, that's kind of weird. Like, I wonder if it's changed at all. Anyways, sorry. And then there was also a pack of cigarettes and a box of matches. None of that's weird, right? No, that's all stuff that my dad would. Instead of the matches, it would have been a Zippo. But the juicy fruit gum, totally unfair.
00:21:47
Speaker
Well, they also noticed that one of his trouser pockets had been repaired with an unusual orange wax thread. He had no wallet or identification on him, and there were no witnesses to what had happened, like just someone who walked up and found him. So they were like, well, now there's just some rando that's well-dressed, but not identifiable. We're gonna have to do an autopsy to see what happened.
00:22:11
Speaker
So an autopsy was done, and on the coroner's report, it stated the following. He was 40 to 45 years old, had gray eyes, was clean shaven, was about five foot 11, well-built and broad shouldered. He had gingery, mousy colored hair, which was graying around the temples. His hands and nails showed no signs of him performing manual labor, which I was like, huh, that's interesting. His big and little toes met in a wedge shape, as if he had been in the habit of wearing high-heeled and pointed shoes.
00:22:41
Speaker
and he had unusually high calf muscles. I thought that was like a really weird thing for them to bring up but reading this I'm thinking like maybe he's a door-to-door salesman or he does some kind of job where like he has to do a lot of walking or running right like maybe that's why. Well in that you said it was 1948. I'm not super familiar with popular men's footwear at that time but I know that ages and ages ago that men wore high heels first before women.
00:23:07
Speaker
Really? I didn't know. I knew they were like platforms, but I didn't realize they were high. Well, I'll say heels. That's true. Yeah. But like in French, it's already five 11. Like how tall do you need to be? I feel like people are already tiny back then. Well, you know, people like six foot or nothing, right? I don't know. That's what people just, I don't know. I'm married. I don't, but I, but I know that people get really weird about men who are under six. I don't know. Don't look at me like that. Your husband's like six foot. He has six foot. It was a joke and we're going to cut out all of this. and Totally didn't know. I'm saying interesting. I'm thinking about it. Oh.
00:23:41
Speaker
sorry, I know I should laugh, but I'm like, huh. So they started looking at his body more and removing his clothes, and then that's when things started getting really weird. So they found that every piece of clothing he had on had the labels meticulously removed, and that the stripes of his tie sloped in the opposite direction of most ties that were found in the UK and Australia at the time. They were like, this is the American fashion of ties, which I was like, that's random and weird. I was going to say, oddly specific, how would they know? Right? Exactly. I would have never known that. Crazy thing to notice. They also noticed he was missing both of his lateral incisors. So that's the teeth that are right next to your two big ones. So he basically just had his two center teeth and then his canine teeth. But it's not like they were pulled out. He just didn't have those. There's different reports. Some of them were like, this is really common. And others were like, that's not very common for the area. That will be important later.
00:24:35
Speaker
They did note that like his teeth weren't removed before death or after death, like we talked about. It was just another way to identify him. The most odd was that there was no cause of death that could be established. They couldn't find any foreign substances in his body, but the pathologist mentioned that he's quite convinced, quote, the cause of death could not have been natural. The poison, I suggested, was a barbiturate or a soluble hypnotic is what, end quote. What does that mean? So they're thinking like,
00:25:03
Speaker
It was, there was poison, some kind of poison, like something that they couldn't test for at the time. detectable some Yeah. or other Police couldn't find any leads even after distributing descriptions, fingerprints, photographs to English speaking countries and around the world. So a little over a month later, this is January 14th, 1949, a Brown suitcase was reported by the railway employees and the railway employees were able to confirm that it was deposited into a locker the day before the man was found deceased on the beach.
00:25:34
Speaker
In the suitcase, they found the usual items like tie, laundry bag, undershirt, coat, dressing gown, slippers, four pairs of underpants, because you always want to pack more underpants than you need, right? Yeah, absolutely. What if I shit my pants? Yeah, pretend you shit your pants every day. The jammers and shaving cream. So the odd things that they found were an electrician's screwdriver,
00:25:55
Speaker
A table knife cut down and turned into a sharp instrument, which they assume is to be used for some kind of weapon. Scissors with sharpened points and a bit of zinc, a stenciling brush used on cargo ships, and a pair of trousers with sand in the cuffs. What the fuck do you need zinc for? like Who just carries around zinc? like Was that something they did back in the day? Was that zinc oxide like for his nose, like for sunscreen? Oh, maybe that's what it meant.
00:26:23
Speaker
I don't know what else one might... Yeah, and I kept looking it up. And it just kept saying a bit of zinc. And I'm like, like, like, I don't like a piece of the metal. Yeah, that's why I was like, I don't know. So is it one of those things that like, I don't know why he would have this. But I know some metals when you burn them, they burn different colors. Oh, that's used as a sleight of hand or a magician's trick or whatever. I don't know, man. I, I looked everywhere and I couldn't find it. And I was hoping maybe you and your random knowledge of random things might know, but I guess not.
00:26:55
Speaker
I don't know, unless it was like zinc, one could use a sunscreen. I didn't think of that. And that's probably what it is. They did say he's gingery. Yes. My husband's gingery and he burns very quickly. Yes. Yes, they found the zinc stenciling brush used on cargo ships and a pair of trousers with sand in the cuffs of the trousers. so But it was found on the beach. Oh, but the bag was in the locker. Isn't that weird? Yes, exactly. Okay. And it was apparently there before.
00:27:25
Speaker
Hugh was found at the beach. Okay. Again, almost all of the identification marks and labels were removed from the suitcase and clothing. Almost all of them. They did manage to find a tie with T, the letter T, last name, keen on it, and a laundry bag and undershirt with just keen on it. There were also three dry cleaning marks that they turned up nothing after a nationwide search.
00:27:51
Speaker
And again, they found an item of clothing that indicated it was manufactured in the US by gusset and feather stitching. But none of this turned up any leads to who this mystery man was. Honestly, like this was the most interesting part for me was like all the different ways they could figure out where clothing came from, like by the patterns and the stitching and all that stuff. I wouldn't tell me more. What what do you have more?
00:28:13
Speaker
that's cool yeah no like i'm just saying like that was really cool and i'm gonna have to like dig more into that one of these days but also the dry clean marks i had no idea what those were do you know what those are no okay so in this case they just look like a series of numbers and it was like four five six seven dash three two something like that. And so I don't know what those would specifically mean, but I did read something about like dry cleaners back in the day. So because everyone was just kind of doing their own thing, right? At the time, there wasn't any standardization. There wasn't- No regulation. Yeah, no regulation. so And you never knew like
00:28:53
Speaker
on the tags like you never knew what materials your clothes were actually made of and all that stuff so what they would do is they would just put like little notes and chemical letters on their tags like on the tags of people's shirts to note what chemicals they use to clean them so people would know like if you take it back to a cleaners okay this had a C on it they used chlorine or it had, I don't know what any other chemicals they used are, so you can't keep going. But like they would have like a whole series of things, and that's eventually where dry cleaning tags come from. okay But yeah, I just thought that was like really, really cool. But they would also even like put full on like things on them that said like color fast or something like that, so that the next air cleaner would know like how the material would react to things.
00:29:35
Speaker
So that's just a little fun fact. Anyways, so the case continued a few months later, and on June 6th, 1949, investigators were looking over the evidence they had again, and they discovered there was a hidden pocket in the mystery man's trousers. Inside the pocket, they found a scrap of paper that looked like it was torn from something. The paper itself looked to have been torn from a book, and on it was written, Taman Shud, which in Persian translated to, it is ended.
00:30:03
Speaker
Right? Detectives found that it had been torn from the last page of a book called Ruby Ott of Omar Khayun, which is a book of poetry from the 12th century Persia. Okay. Yeah. It was a rare book in Australia at the time, so that was even weirder. But still, this information turned up no leads. They were just like, found this piece of paper saying, it has ended in this guy's hidden pocket.
00:30:27
Speaker
weird. So a few days later, on June 17, 1949, a coroner reexamined the body and noticed that the man's shoes looked to have been recently polished, which fit with one theory that the body was possibly moved and then placed on the beach, right? um A professor testified that a group of drugs did exist that were highly toxic in small doses and would be nearly impossible to detect even if officials were looking for them. They were types of cardiac glycosides. I didn't know much about that, but to this the coroner reported, quote, I would be prepared to find that he died from poison, that the poison was probably a glucoside and that it was not accidentally administered, but I cannot say whether it was administered by the deceased himself or by some other person, end quote. So still no cause of death was established and then they ended up doing a plaster cast of the man's head and shoulders so that they could still like identify him to people or whatever, right?
00:31:25
Speaker
it's got to be buried buried at some point. A month later, July 22, 1949, a man turned in a copy of that book, the Rupeat of Omar Khayyam. And remember, this is a really rare book at the time. So they turned it into the local police. And this book seemed to have the piece of paper torn from the last page, which matched the scrap they had, like they looked at like the tearing and everything, it matched. It fit in the empty spot of the page. Do we have any information about who it was that turned it in? So funny, you should ask that. We'll get to that part. Not only did that scrap of paper match what was inside the book, it also contained an unlisted telephone number inside. And the back of the book also had very light indentations of five lines of text that appeared to be a coded message.
00:32:16
Speaker
So there was a small part of me that was imagining someone just being like, hey, tear in the side of the book, thought it was cool. And then all the while this book had been used and written like on by other people and that's what they got. And they just got, you know what I mean? Like when you used to write on your school books and they would get indentations. Like I'm thinking this might've been like multiple people, right? But they're not sure. The guy that turned in the book, he wasn't identified to the public by the police because they wanted to protect his identity. And and apparently they never wrote it down either. So they never,
00:32:45
Speaker
were able to reveal who this guy was that turned in this book. Wow, guys. It gets worse. like right like I feel like you would have questions about how he came across this specific book. right And in this case, you would like need to do a lot to convince me that you weren't involved in this crime. right So at this point in time, one of the theories was that he might have been a spy since the Cold War had started nearly two years earlier, and there were two areas nearby that would have interested a spy. Radium Hill, which it was a uranium mine nearby. There was also Wumara Test Range, which was a military research facility. So they were like, maybe he was a spy, and that's why all this is weird and, you know, whatever. I was like, yeah, that's kind of convincing. But this was just a theory at the time due to the current happenings. So anyways, the police traced the enlisted phone number that was found in the book to a woman
00:33:38
Speaker
named Jessica Thompson. And she just so happened to live about a mile away from where the body was found on the beach. I'm sorry, she was just tied to the books somehow. So that phone number that was in the book, the phone number. OK, yeah. They were like, huh, whose phone number is this? It's Jessica Thompson and Jessica Thompson lives nearby. So in the book that the scrap of paper was removed from, that was found in the guy's pocket. Yeah, it gets weird. They went to Jessica's house. The police showed her the plaster image of the mystery man and she apparently fainted.
00:34:08
Speaker
Yeah, just what a great reaction to have. Not suspicious. And then when she woke, she refused to look at it again. And she was like, I don't know who that man is. No idea. No, I want no part in this.
00:34:19
Speaker
And they were like, okay, see you later. That was it. That was the end. there Did they ever go back to her? Like, I feel like it's a really odd reaction to have, right? To just be like, deuces. that's That's cool. Right. But she claimed that she did own the book at one time, but she put her phone number in it and gave it to a man in 1945 named Al Boxle at a hotel in Sydney.
00:34:44
Speaker
So basically, like she was like she was just writing her name in a book, handed it to a guy, and was like, call me later, I guess. That kind of situation. i was trying to like Do you ever just hand books randomly to people that you meet in hotels? I mean, I think it was 1945. And I was trying to be sly about my flirting in a time when women shouldn't be flirting, because they might think I'm a woman of the night. Oh my god. I am the night.
00:35:06
Speaker
um Okay, so police believe that maybe this guy was Elf, right? Like the guy who had died, like right? She gave Elf the book. sure Book has been found, Elf is dead. The problem with that was they eventually found Elf and he was still alive and kicking.
00:35:25
Speaker
And oddly enough, he had the copy of the book that was given to him by Jessica, which she also signed with J-E-S-T-Y-N, which is her signature, and wrote out a verse from from the book for him. And then the last page of the book still had the Tom and Shud part into it, like in it. Right? What the fuck? That was a handwritten bit, right? Yes.
00:35:51
Speaker
So the case basically went cold at this point because what the heck even happened? Are we not going back to that bitch? Right? Do you want to hear the updates though? Absolutely I do. Because like right like that was my first thought is like okay so you have this book that someone turned in that you refuse to note who it was who gave you a book that matches this paper that was found in this guy's pocket and it had a phone number leading to this other lady who told you that she wrote that phone number in a book for this other guy who also has the same book with the phone number and everything in it still. Maybe she just goes around giving and her phone number to people. I don't know. Books. The person in me who's seen too many movies and read too many books might think that maybe this was a secret code and and people who have that are to need a certain case for a thing.
00:36:41
Speaker
That's an interesting theory. I like that. Well, I just solved the problem. You did. That was it. We will leverage the science. All right. So, updates to this? Yes. um Over the next 70 years. 70. 70. Okay, wait. so Are you telling me that this is not right? But wait, there's more. So over the next 70 years, there's a lot of theories and speculations, like him being a Russian spy,
00:37:09
Speaker
or a professional ballet dancer due to his well-developed calf muscles and the pointed toes. yeah Something interesting that was discovered in the 1950s was a type of encrypted communication called the Ottendorf cipher. Do you know what that is? so It was used historically in espionage.
00:37:30
Speaker
I hadn't heard of it, but apparently it's a type of code where you and the person or people that are communicating have the same book, just a normal everyday book that you use to decode messages. But the book has to be the same so that every letter and word on the page is the same. And that way, if you're caught with a book, it's just like an everyday book. like You could just deny that you're walking around with a code book.
00:37:53
Speaker
I feel like I just watched something that talked about it. But anyways, sorry. So this is one of the theories of the book and that the code they found in the back of the book. But in the 1950s, the book was turned over to the police and then it was lost. Of course it was. So there's no way for like, for them to like go back and look at it. But there are pictures and images of what was written in it at least so that they could at least study that part. But the actual book was lost. So great police work.
00:38:22
Speaker
It's an out of print situation. We can't find any copies of the book anywhere. Well, it's not that. Remember, the code was on the back of the book, like almost like imprinted like someone wrote on top of it. And so they were like, maybe we could decode it using the book, but we don't have. Yeah. And I mean, you could find the book, but it's they're wanting to study the actual book. But anyway, cryptography experts claim that the code they found was likely not a code and probably just represents horses.
00:38:50
Speaker
why like horses that this person was betting on him oh okay but that doesn't i don't yeah and especially when you look at the stuff you're like i don't know in 1986 almost 40 years later the brown suitcase and all of its contents were destroyed by the police why they said that it was just no longer required so they just threw it away i mean it was 40 years it's a cold case so they just tossed it it's it's Australia they don't have a lot of room Wasn't Australia like a criminal island? There you go. Not then. You think people are just going to stop doing crimes? Well, once they've died, yeah. Unless they're a Wendigo. They don't live in Australia. They could. Maybe they traveled. I wonder if Wendigos can get on airplanes. I mean, there's technically. It depends on which lore you follow, because depending on who you talk to, most cryptic type things can't handle that. What do you mean? The pressure?
00:39:47
Speaker
ah the thin air maybe the pressure I don't know it depends on the wonder or what happens like to their heads explode or like their ears start bleeding in my experience they just get sick like they throw up yeah they get woozy dizzy I feel like they'll wake up and we get to land that is a thing though pass it just depends on the book series you're talking about we really need to look at more into this like this is for a future discussion I want to table this we're gonna talk about this later all right all right sorry anyways they lost the book destroyed the briefcase like they're just giving up at this point, right? In 1994, almost 50 years later, Chief Justice of Victoria John Harbour Phillips, Victoria, ah Australia, sure John Harbour Phillips examined the remaining evidence of the cold case and concluded that the poisoning was due to digitalis. Do you know what that is? I figured you of all people would know. Well, I'm thinking that made me think of Prestidigitation, which is a D and&D cantor.
00:40:38
Speaker
So that's not what we're doing here. Digitalis, I would have maybe some kind of... um Digitalis is also known as foxglove. Oh yes, actually I did know that, but I didn't think we were talking about flowers.
00:40:50
Speaker
So foxglove, which is currently used in medicine, it's used to strengthen contractions of the heart to avoid heart failure. But looking into this, if he didn't have a heart condition, the ingestion of the plant usually causes nausea, headache, skin irritation, diarrhea. And it was mentioned that he didn't really look like anything had happened to him. So maybe he was given so much that he just like went into cardiac arrest since he didn't have a heart problem. So don't eat foxglove. Well, it's poisonous. but i'm just I feel like they could check for cardiac something. There's a thing. Well, maybe they couldn't test for it. I don't know. I wasn't saying 1948. I don't know. They did say, obviously something happened, but they don't know what. They didn't look like a heart attack, I guess. I don't know how you check for a heart attack though, because I'm not a doctor. I'm sitting here. on a podcast. I feel like there's something like cardiac enzymes or something they can get from a blood test. But again, I don't know if that was something they could do then. But that's how they test now to see if you've gone through some kind of a heart thing. Now we're gonna have to look into all of this.
00:41:54
Speaker
We're going to have to become experts on Fox Glove and Heart Attack. Next ah episode is about Fox Glove and Heart Attacks. I'm just kidding. I'm not doing that. I might like read about it tonight, but I'm not doing a lot of Okay. Anyway, sorry. So distractions. So 1995, our good friend, Alf Foxl died. So Alf was the guy they thought he might be. Interestingly enough, there was a theory about dear old Alf that he was involved in the Verona Project. Do you know what that is? I don't.
00:42:23
Speaker
So Verona Project, dude, I uncovered so much stuff like that i i have to I have to research more later. The Verona Project was a counterintelligence program to intercept and decipher messages from the Soviet Union intelligence agencies.
00:42:36
Speaker
So when he was asked if he was involved, Alf, when he was asked if he was involved in anything to do with being a spy, his only response was, it's quite a melodramatic thesis, isn't it? He would never say yes or no. He would just say quite a melodramatic thesis. What an uppity little pin. I know. Like, excuse you. I have questions. Super suspicious.
00:43:02
Speaker
So in 2007, it's now been 60 years since they found this mystery man. Jessica Thompson died. and her daughter did an interview stating that she believes her mother does know who the mystery man is. It should also be noted that Jessica had a son named Robin and he was born in 1947. Oh yeah! A year before the death of the man and that her son had the same missing teeth, which is supposed to be possibly genetic, and an ear condition that the Somerton man also had, like that they had similar ears.
00:43:35
Speaker
So, he also, interestingly enough, had a long career as a dancer with the Australian Ballet Company. Huh. Yeah. So, just a little- Can we get his DNA? In 2009. A few years later, Robin Thompson died because at this point he's like 70. And that was the end of Robin Thompson, right? He's the ballet dancer. Okay. Yeah, the ballet dancer, son of Jessica. And probably the Somerton Man. They think. Mm-hmm.
00:44:04
Speaker
so In 2019, the Attorney General of South Australia approved the Somerton man to be exhumed for DNA sampling. Oh, shit. It's getting juicy. And in 2021, 73 years later, he was finally exhumed for DNA sampling. Do you want to know what happened? Yes. So. Oh, no, I don't like your tone or your face right now. You're going to tell me something disappointing. On July 26, 2022.
00:44:31
Speaker
74 years later, it is believed that the Somerton Man was finally identified. And honestly, it deflated me a little bit because after all the different theories, it's really boring. So it's believed he's Carl Charles Webb, who was an electrical engineer from Melbourne who vanished from the public record in 1947.
00:44:55
Speaker
ah forensic genealogist identified him using hairs that he caught in the death mass that they made. The way that they found this was through tracking his DNA to someone that might have been a distant cousin and then using biographical records because they didn't have a lot of DNA back at that time, right? So they used biographical records, so kind of like, you know,
00:45:16
Speaker
the ancestry dot.com type situation. right The genealogist stated, quote, in all this soup and ocean of DNA, cousins, we were able to connect one of them to Carl's father and one of them to Carl's mother. You really kind of narrow it down so much it couldn't be any one of Carl's siblings, but Carl is the one with no documented death.
00:45:38
Speaker
So they couldn't actually like directly tie his DNA, but they were like, this guy's the only one that didn't have it. And we think it's someone related to these people. So it was like, to me, it felt like ah a stretch. So I was like, I wasn't ready to believe it because I'm like, no, I'm also not ready to believe it. What about that keen name and like,
00:46:00
Speaker
Right? Like all of that. I'm like, no, none of this. There's too much. and And I'm sorry, but that book. No. Yeah, like what did that book have to do with it? This feels like a sanitized explanation. Exactly. So and I'm not a conspiracy person. Your hat's falling off. My tin foil hat? Yes. So the DNA that what that he was exhumed for, they did test it against a relative of Robin Thompson, and they confirmed there wasn't any relation.
00:46:28
Speaker
Bullshit. Bullshit. I don't believe it. Right? So there's more. OK. So again, I guess that I was really skeptical about the way the genealogist traced it. So I did more research because I was like, no, someone tell me something else. Anything else. Right. But I found more. So that explains a lot of this. So it actually all does line up. um And it's interesting how it all ends up. So Webb was born near Melbourne, Australia, and he was married in 1941.
00:46:57
Speaker
The last mention of him in historical records was April 1947, when he apparently left his wife. In October of 1951, three years after they found him deceased on the beach, his wife placed a notice in the newspaper stating that she had begun the divorce process on grounds of desertion. So she was like, you left us. You never came back. Maybe you went out for a smoke. Who fucking knows, right? And then, even better, records show that Webb enjoyed reading.
00:47:25
Speaker
writing poetry, betting on horse races, and had a sister who lived in Melbourne that was married to a man named Thomas Keene. Which would explain the name that appears on the remaining clothing items and why he might have removed them, right? Because like he was like, that's not my name. I'm not wearing secondhand clothing. And as for the American clothing items, it's speculated that he bought the clothing secondhand from a GI stationed in Australia.
00:47:50
Speaker
So the genealogists couldn't find a record or pictures of Webb, but they did find pictures of his brother who died a prisoner of war and resembles him greatly. So that's the story of the Somerton Man and how the story might have been greatly misunderstood over 70 years of drawing conclusions based on completely logical contents of items with the incorrect context. Did we ever get any answers about the cigarette? No. unaled No. No.
00:48:18
Speaker
I know your face is everything I was feeling, but like there's so much more to this case. Like there have been books written about this case because like the details I gave you are just the tip of the iceberg, the tip of the iceberg, weird things like, but there was so much more. And so I'm like, I mean, everything lines up, but almost too neatly after like, after how many 70 years? I don't know. The spy story is way more fun.
00:48:44
Speaker
I know. Yeah. And the book. I like the ballet story. Yeah. Yeah. And like that book that had the piece torn out, but also that lady's number. Ooh. So another theory that I actually looked into, like completely random. There's so many theories, but like I just picked the two that seem the most promising. But the other theory is that maybe he did have an affair with this lady, right?
00:49:11
Speaker
Maybe she was just giving out the book in hotels with her phone number in it and she was having an affair with her and he left his wife and that's why he ended up with the clothing because he had gotten it from his sister's husband and he was planning on leaving her and maybe his wife poisoned him and that's what the fox glove is all about or maybe he poisoned himself and that's why he put it is done in his pocket, who knows? Oh yeah, that part. In a poetic fashion because he was very dramatic. Yeah, but the belly dancer with the teeth I don't know, man. I know. But apparently, that was one of the things. like They were like, it could be really common. It could have been common in that area at the time. Who knows? like Maybe a lot of the people have it. I think that dental records know. I think that there are... I don't believe this. I refuse to accept. I know. As I was writing all this, because I didn't have the ending, right? like i I write it as I read it. Yeah. And then I was like writing it and I was like, no.
00:50:08
Speaker
No, no, no. And I just started looking at like all these different sources. And I was like, no, no, no. Aw, man. It kind of adds up, so. I guess. Sorry. That's where we're at. I hope you enjoyed that horrible story.
00:50:27
Speaker
I actually really enjoyed it. I was just disappointed in the real life ending that is as boring as real life. I agree. But honestly, like it made me really want to look into a lot of spy stuff. So I made to a future episode on some stuff like that because it was really interesting. yeah And then I started looking at like a lot of different stuff on like the horrors of metals and like regulations and stuff like that. When you were looking into zinc. Yes. Did we ever figure out anything about the zinc? No, it's probably what you were talking about. He was a ginger. He was going to the beach. Yeah. That's what I'm saying.
00:50:59
Speaker
I'm sorry though, but ah protecting myself from the sun is going to be the least of my worries if I'm going to kill myself. Well, that's why he left it at a bus station. Right. Maybe he was supposed to elope and meet his girl and then she didn't come. And so he... Why would she have fainted? That's why I think she was having an affair with him. Maybe the kid really wasn't his, but like maybe she was having an affair with him.
00:51:22
Speaker
like in my head. But they said the DNA doesn't match. The DNA is a liar. And he apparently wasn't a ballerina either. He was just someone who did electrical work. I don't know why his caps were so nice. Ace has great caps and he's not a ballerina. Does he wear high heels? No. but No, he does not. He does not wear high heels. Not that I know of, but we do wear the same same size shoes, but I don't have very many high heels, so I doubt he wears them. Only takes one.
00:51:51
Speaker
what i Well, and that was fun. Do you have nightmare fuel?
Books, Folklore, and Zodiac Characters
00:52:00
Speaker
So my nightmare fuel is, which I mean,
00:52:04
Speaker
okay so like i said there's a lot of books that were written about the summerton man obviously before the dna was a whole thing but like even then i said like you and i are so resistant to believe i think a lot of people are like no it has to be more than that so there's this book called tom and shod the summerton man mystery by carrie greenwood it's apparently really it's one of one of the really good ones that has like a lot of the thorough yeah really thorough i've been wanting to read it i haven't because as you know i don't have time to read but you might um but yeah this is just the book cover and i'll put it on me is that him yeah that's him do you see the ear thing that i was talking about yeah yeah huh yeah
00:52:48
Speaker
So I will put that on our on our page so that anyone who wants to. And look, this was the code that they're saying was actually just names of horses that he was betting on. Those don't look like names. of sh Right. W. R. Guabar.
00:53:06
Speaker
i is that all about that Yes, sorry. Shocking I know, but I'm also it's actually not just a book. It's a series of books that I have. And you mentioned that you did read scary stories to tell in the dark at some point. I'm trying to remember I had to have read them all. Actually, I think I have.
00:53:23
Speaker
Did you have them or were they just like around at like your friend's houses or was it? help So it's really funny. Cause I told you I went to a Catholic school yes growing up and these were actually in the library at my Catholic school, which I find really funny because they were very like, it's not, you know, when it's not Halloween, we're not, we're not, we're not doing anything spooky, scary, demon related. I remember some of these were like, cause I would always read at night in my room by myself. And I do remember some of these really, really chilled me. And then some of them I'm like, that's not scary. And then I had nightmares about it. Did you have this one, the one with the original art? Yes, I had this one. I remember this one for sure. I i read and then I don't know about these two. I remember reading the one with the three, but I don't remember this art. So we're looking at scary stories to tell in the dark, more scary stories to tell in the dark and ah scary stories, three more tales to chill your bones. And they were by Alvin Schwartz. For me, I do remember the art being the most yeah interesting part for me.
00:54:22
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, I remember the one with the cat freaked me out a lot. Is that Taley Bone? Yeah, I think it's Taley Bone. That sounds right. The art is by Stephen Gamel, who, in the original prints, did just such iconic art for it. I remember when I was re-looking for these as an adult, because I let my friend borrow them, I never got them back. When I was looking- I was about to ask to borrow them, I will not. Oh no, you can, you totally can. You're not that friend, you return things. When I was first looking for them, I was really disappointed to see that they had new editions out with different artists. And it was like really cool art and stuff, but it was not this. Probably just new print, new edition, but they ended up after the outcry of people being pissed off about the loss of the art. Yeah, so they reprinted it with this back on it. So this is one of the earliest scary things I ever loved.
00:55:09
Speaker
I remember checking it out at the school library several times. And finally, I remember getting it at a thrift shop, the first one. Oh, wow. Was this the one that the movies were? No. Yes. Was it? Yeah, it was. Okay. Yeah, there is a movie. Guillermo del Toro directed it. It was fun. It was cute. It was and not iconic to me. But you know, I was an adult when I saw that. And it like it it pulled we went and saw that one together. We may have. Yeah. Yeah.
00:55:31
Speaker
I liked it, but it was not what the books are to me, of course. Ace was not okay. we We did take him. He does not do anything relatively spooky. Yeah, he doesn't like scary stuff, which is amazing. He was that bloated lady that really freaked us. i forget the character I don't remember if we have the character's name, but I know that the picture is in here and I'll find it and post it.
00:55:50
Speaker
But yeah, she's she's a pale lady. Yes. Scary. I think I might even appreciate these a little bit more in adulthood. I've learned that they they were all meticulously researched based on folklore. Sorry if you hear me flipping pages. Well, she's talking.
00:56:05
Speaker
That's likely my deepest foray into folklore when I was a kid, and I didn't even realize what it was. right And these are all based, like there's resources in the back, the sources and stuff from where he pulled the information for these stories. That's my favorite thing when I find folklore stories with references. Yes. I forgot about this stuff with like the music notes, I do wonder what it sounds like.
00:56:25
Speaker
My favorite thing in there, there's a song called the her song. Yeah. And I actually have a version of that on my Spotify playlist that I've been listening to for ages. That's what it is. Yeah, it's so great. So some of those are actual songs that you can still hear now. ooh Room 505. I think there's a movie about that too. Yeah.
00:56:41
Speaker
Interesting. and they Sorry. So it didn't all age well, but there's still a lot of substance there. I love it. There's small short little stories too, so yes it's it's fun. It's very digestible. um A lot of fun. Some of them are jump scares if you're reading them to other people. It's really fun. So something I learned today actually, because I was just obsessing about these books for a little bit, was that these were the subject of book bandings in elementary schools in the 80s and 90s. Really? they were actually saved by librarians who are the best badasses ever. There's actually a really interesting documentary on Prime called Scary Stories that talks about the saga of the band attempts, stories about the author's family, art that's been inspired by the books, and just a whole lot more stuff. If you love the books, check out the documentary. If you have kids that like spooky folk tales, have them check it out. Make sure to show them all the pictures.
00:57:27
Speaker
Nice. so You know what's interesting about this? The back of all that you say this edition is only available for distribution through the school market. Well, yeah yeah, they were scholastic books. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's how I ended up getting two and three. The first one I remember specifically getting out of the store. You got scholastic money? That was saved over a lot of time. Awesome. Well, I'm glad we both had books this time. I wish I would have had a chance to read mine more, but I might actually look into it later. Like, I don't know, I'm a little disappointed with the but the ending. but So you might actually, I wonder if because it's nonfiction, it might be more like a podcast for you to listen to, if you might be able to listen to that kind of thing. Oh, that's true. I could try that. You're right. Yeah, that'd be good.
00:58:19
Speaker
I'm thinking for this month, maybe we do holiday horoscopes. okay Okay, you are a Sagimitarius. I am not Scorpio. I know you're an S. I know you're a B.
00:58:34
Speaker
Hey, I am a C. Yeah, bet you are.
00:58:41
Speaker
Let's see. Ooh. The Christmas character you resonate with based on your Zodiac sign, also fucking bullshit. I'm going to tell you right now because I am like in a Christmas movie mode.
00:58:54
Speaker
And I came across that Rudolph movie, you know, the one like animation. Yes. Yeah. And it was on like my TV's main screen. And so I went to like click on it and it was like took me to a page where I had to pay for it. And I'm like, this is bullshit because it's a smart TV. And I thought it was showing me like what's on all of my apps. It wasn't. It was trying to make me pay for the movie. And I'm really mad because I want to watch it. But I refuse to pay them for their stupid advertising. So fair. Just so you know, that's how I feel.
00:59:24
Speaker
All right, I found one. This one is the Christmas character you resonate with based on your Zodiac sign. So let's see. Scorpio, you are Ebenezer Scrooge from a Christmas carol. Being ruled by Pluto, Lord of the Underworld, makes you equally as bitter as you Similarly, e Ebenezer Scrooge's lack of empathy and warmth can resemble your coldness, vengeance, and passive-aggressive behavior, but it typically stems from being repressed anger.
01:00:00
Speaker
Nevertheless, it took encountering the death Jesus. None of this is you. Why do they so mean whoever wrote this is really upset. They're really mad at Scorpios. Oh, the Capricorn is Susan Walker from Miracle on 34th Street. So the mom I think so. I haven't seen that movie in years. Why is it beyond your years? Oh, then it's the little girl, I bet. you're that Your Saturnian persona can explain why you're often the most poised and precocious among your peers. The young Susan Walker is no exception, and her need to see to believe resembles your grounded and pragmatic nature. After all, it was her mother who made sure she didn't entertain silly ideas like believing in Santa Claus.
01:00:43
Speaker
But when Susan crossed paths with Chris Kringle at Macy's department store, everything changed. These are all horrible. Sorry. Horrible scopes. They are horror scopes. All right. Are we calling it or do you want to look at actual?
01:00:59
Speaker
I think we can leave it at that. All right. Well, it has been a wonderfully awful episode. It has been a nightmare. It has. It has been a nightmare. And I'm not OK, but I guess that's how it should be. But that's OK, because in our next episode, we will be exploring more wintery spookiness. And it will be so close to Christmas. It's going to be great. It's going to be great. Have a good night. Good night.
01:01:30
Speaker
If you have topic suggestions, movie or book recommendations, questions for the cottage, or just want to say hi, you can email us at nightmarecottage at gmail dot.com. You can find us on Instagram at nightmarecottage and on our website at nightmarecottage.com. Sleep tight, if you dare.