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Episode 13 - Grotesquerie of Fate
17 Plays4 months ago
Nym talks about the history and evolution of gargoyles. Nylene faces some very terrifying scenarios of real life Final Destination style deaths.
Enter the Nightmare for transcripts, show notes, and sources.
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Transcript
Introduction to Nightmare Cottage
00:00:29
Speaker
Welcome to Nim and Nyleen's Nightmare Cottage, where we discuss dark locations, sinister media, and other tales of the macabre. I'm Nim. And I'm Nyleen. Let the nightmare begin.
00:00:48
Speaker
into the nightmare if you dare.
00:00:55
Speaker
hello I was trying to come up with a better intro and I just like. I was waiting. I was like, are you going to say something? Cause like normally I'm like, hello. I know the anticipation on your face just like made me break like a shit. I'm not, I'm not prepared for this. I also noticed too, like, I think this is the first time we've recorded with lights on. That sounds really weird, but like normally we have like the lights off and like mood lighting and I noticed it the second I looked you in the eyes and I was like, Oh no, everything's ruined.
00:01:25
Speaker
Oh shit, I'm so sorry that my face ruins everything for you. Oh my god. Anyways. How was life? Yeah, I mean.
00:01:36
Speaker
um Personally, relatively chill and uneventful. I'm sorry, the world is on fire. oh just like I was like, okay, I get it. yeah That makes sense. Trying to ignore the you know very not okay that things are. but you know It's not so much ignored. It's just so much at one time. It's like trying to process everything. It's just like, oh hold on.
00:01:59
Speaker
You know? Yeah. Hold on. But outside of that, I've been, I don't know, watching old movies and playing video games with Monkey and staying in my lane. So what movies have you been watching? um I will not reveal those until a future episode. Well, fine then,
Nyleen's San Francisco Adventures
00:02:17
Speaker
be that way. um Yeah, I just came back from my trip.
00:02:21
Speaker
your trip that's right you went to san francisco yes i went to san francisco for a work thing and it was lovely i stayed right next to the chinatown area nice and so you know walking around probably the more touristy parts, I guess you can say, but really stayed like walk through Chinatown and the financial district and to the fairies and the the wharfs and all of that. It was really nice. Honestly, it reminded me a lot of being in New York, except a lot more chill and no offense New York people, but a little bit cleaner.
00:02:57
Speaker
People were kind of looking at me like I was crazy though, and I think it's because I had i had my headphones in my ears, like the the Bluetooth ones, and I was talking to like my sister or ace while I was walking because it was later in the day. And I ah had a sweater on because it was kind of cold, oddly enough. It was, I don't know, it was colder there than it was here, which is weird. Well, San Francisco is north. I mean, it's not LA with no weather. It's LA.
00:03:25
Speaker
but Sorry. Anyways. um Yes. And I went to go get some sourdough because their sourdough is so fucking good. like it's actually like It has that nice sour without feeling like maybe something has gone wrong.
00:03:39
Speaker
And so I went and got some from this like Acme bakery over near the, the fairy, I think it is. Is it a train? I don't know what's over there. I just walked there and I didn't have anywhere to put it. So I just shoved it in my shirt, like in my, in my sweater. There was a, there was a little, you know, the little muff pocket. So you're just talking to yourself with bread shoved in your sweater. Correct.
00:04:02
Speaker
Yes, I got a few weird looks. And I think it took people a minute to notice that like, okay, I'm not talking to myself one. And two, like, yeah, there was a guy that was walking by and he gave me a very puzzled look, like looking down at me, like, the fuck is that? And he was like, bread, bread. And I was like, what? And I just kept walking. And then I was like,
00:04:22
Speaker
oh bra Yeah, I got it. But you you know, you made that man have a ah moment in his day that was like, you know, more than just the normal. So yeah congratulations. Yeah, I mean, it was nice. Like, honestly, I wish we had more opportunity to walk places with purpose. Like, obviously, I can walk anywhere I want to here. But yeah, we don't live in a walkable city. No, it's not walkable. I can't get places It feels, I don't know, it's different, but it was nice to be able to walk everywhere. It was really pretty, honestly, like beautiful, like the mix of the old and new buildings. And I, you know, went to dinner with a friend and she took me to the top of Nob Hill, which She was like, oh, it's just a little bit of a, it's just a little hilly. Ma'am, that is not hilly. That is like a full on freaking mountain. Like I was not prepared. I felt like I was almost horizontal at one point trying to scale this hill. What kind of shoes were you wearing? Oh, luckily I was wearing, I mean, I knew I was going to be walking around. So I brought my like running shoes and so that part wasn't too bad. And honestly, like I felt really good afterwards and it was worth the view. I'll probably
00:05:34
Speaker
put it somewhere because it's such a beautiful view but um and she has a little corgi was the cutest thing in the whole wide world yeah that's um sorry i lost my train of thought because you thought about the dog yeah um oh yeah and it was lunar new year and so it was really really nice because it was like they had it was kind of scary a few times because they had some serious fireworks going on and it was like really next to the hotel which i thought that was kind of odd. And our ah our laws here. Yes, are very different, very strict. And I know it's like we have a lot more like vegetation, I guess that could light it on fire. But then again, it's California, I guess they're right by the bay. So they wouldn't have I don't know enough. I don't know. But like, just the boom reverberating through the whole city because of all the buildings. Yeah, insane. But yeah, just all the artwork everywhere all over the buildings. And it's just it was so beautiful. Yeah. yeah
00:06:27
Speaker
It's really cool. um I'm not so interesting as all that. i've I've started working on my garden for the season. um I can't think about when this comes out, but we should be into spring, I think, when this comes out. Nice. Yeah, no, I've thought about going out there because like it was actually warm today. It was too warm. And I know it was only in the 80s, but it was too warm. It was too warm. I wasn't ready for the sun. It was very annoying.
00:06:54
Speaker
i i was I had a hair appointment this morning. I was wearing long sleeves because I was thinking that it was going to be cool because yeah it was early and it was fine when I was like on my way there because it was early. But then like when I left, it was after 11 and I was offended at how hot it was. That's um my interesting, but i'm not I'm such a lame and boring person.
00:07:18
Speaker
That's normally my day-to-day. It just happened to have somewhere cool to go. Yeah. It was awesome. It was really great besides the almost four-hour flight and the man coughing next to me and sitting next to the bathroom. Like literally next to the bathroom on a four-hour flight is the worst right around lunchtime. Gross dude. It was a bad time. Sounds like it. Yeah. Well, um that does sound like a nightmare.
The Challenges of Researching Dark Topics
00:07:45
Speaker
It is.
00:07:47
Speaker
especially with all the planes that are crashing. Oh my God. I don't think I'm ever going to want to fly again. Yeah. That's what my parents were saying. I mean, I was supposed to come back the day after that first one went down and my mom was very concerned because she was like,
00:08:04
Speaker
I'm like, what else do you want me to do? I have to go. I have to get home. um But yeah, it's getting a little out of control. That's kind of scary. We'll see what happens there, I guess. Yeah, we'll follow that nightmare as it develops. Yeah, um part of the stuff that I was looking at, and I mean, I guess I'll talk about it more later. but like There were a lot of playing crashes and I was like, maybe I shouldn't talk about all of these. i I'll talk about some other ones. Cause it's just like, it just, it's is not the vibe right now. Like too soon kind of situation. Fair. Well.
00:08:38
Speaker
I don't know if they'll ever be a good time. So I mean, that's kind of the nature of what we talk about. We talk about things that are nightmarish. And while some of them are like, really cool, far distant, nightmarish things. I mean, we talk about a lot of really nightmarish stuff. I mean, any of the true crime stuff. I mean, this is stuff that happens to real people.
00:08:58
Speaker
I think that this I think nightmarish content of any type is fitting here. I agree and it does kind of suck though because like just the level of diving we have to do into like some of these topics yes and it's just like sometimes it's like I really want to do this topic like I'm not complaining I enjoy doing the research and that's the fun part for me is I really like to read about things but it's just sometimes it gets so heavy and it's like after like you know the world's already on fire and then you come home and everything is just a lot. And so it's just like, fuck, I just need to talk about something light. Yeah, I will say that my next couple of topics are definitely, you know, in that history, like kind of lighter. Yeah, I feel like I just had mine. So now I need to go back into a murder. And I'm like, well, I guess it's time. Time to get back to murder. Get back to murder.
00:09:47
Speaker
but
00:09:53
Speaker
But first, as I said, I'm doing more history type stuff
Exploration of Gargoyles in History and Culture
00:09:57
Speaker
today. And for a little bit of balance, it's not really a scary topic at all. How do you feel about car coils? I like them. I think that there's a lot of really cool ones around the world. Definitely some silly ones and fascinating. I don't know. I think they're really cool. I know that there's like supposed to be like symbolism and stuff behind them and like they're supposed to be like guardians of some type. but So i'm not going to I'm not diving super hard into that, but I am going to talk about it a little bit. I'm more going to talk about how we got from
00:10:26
Speaker
gargoyles as an architectural structure to gargoyles as monsters. As monsters. As, you know, like coming to life and being monsters. I will say, like, I haven't really seen a lot of gargoyly monsters unless maybe I'm just, like, blind. You know, they're not quite as prolific as something like a vampire or something or anything like that. I agree with that, yeah.
00:10:46
Speaker
But they're there. We'll talk about it. You know, I adore gargoyles. I've got like five or six grotesque style gargoyles in my garden. I think they're beautiful. I think they're kind of cute. I would love to have a gargoyle companion. I think they would be really neat. Like the one from where we are in the shadows.
00:11:03
Speaker
what we do in the shadows. What we do in the shadows, wow. The one from where, what we do in the shadows. It was, I think it was like the gargoyle, the hell demon, like he ended up marrying the... Oh, right. Yes, yes, yes. Yes. Well, no, I was thinking more like a dog that looked like a gargoyle, but you know, or a cat. Okay. So not like full size. Right. Because like grim... Mm-hmm.
00:11:23
Speaker
my nightmare kitty, he frequently purchased and looks like a gargoyle. And so, I don't know, I would love a pet gargoyle. I think that'd be cute. Anyways. Are you familiar with the folklore and background of the gargoyle at all? No. You said you mentioned that, you know, there is some, but you're not correct. Correct, yeah. So first, I'm going to differentiate some vocabulary here. Okay. I had specified grotesque style gargoyles a moment ago. Yes, I was wondering about that. So that was actually a misnomer. What I actually have are statues of grotesques, and they're not actually gargoyles.
00:11:53
Speaker
the term gargoyle started as a carved water spout that would hang out far from the walls of a building to keep the water from eroding the walls. Oh, I thought that's what all gargoyles were. Not the ones that don't do that. Not the ones in my backyard. They don't run water away from it. I know, but I just figured like that was just what they all were and period the end.
00:12:13
Speaker
Yeah, so no, not they don't all do that, but they started that way. So basically, they're essentially really ornate gutters. Yeah. I read a few different versions of ornate. Some of them are absolutely chaotic. Yes, but artistic in some way or another, even if it's ridiculous.
00:12:31
Speaker
Have you heard of the ones with the but their butts sticking out? Yes. yeah I don't actually talk about this in here, but like these were things that were carved up for people to... They're put in places where people aren't going to see them. Now, in all fairness, I will say like there's a lot of gargoyles around San Francisco that are just in the actual architecture, and I don't know if these are considered gargoyles, but you know like in the stone facing of the buildings, not necessarily high up. Some of them are perched, but you know what I mean. Or in the entrances, like on pestled on gates.
00:13:00
Speaker
Right. What would you consider the ones in Chinatown? Like the, they're like almost a Chinese gargoyle dogs. Those are called, oh, I forget what they're called, but I know what you're talking about. And that's, I mean, it's more statuary. You wouldn't consider it a gargoyle. I mean, I, you can.
00:13:16
Speaker
But as definition, an actual gargoyle is- These are the grim reapers in San Francisco. That's fucking rad. Could you put that in the show notes? Yeah. That's really cool. Yeah, I can. and They're apparently very controversial, but I'm like, would those be considered gargoyles? I'm just trying to like really understand what the differences are.
00:13:34
Speaker
So really, it's an architectural statue okay if it's not diverting water, technically. But I really, I mean- It's art, to not function. i don't I mean, yeah. Thank you, Jim. All right. So yeah, it just depends on what they are, but we can call them all gargoyles for the purpose of this podcast. Because it's our podcast, we'll do what we want to. Exactly. And until you bitches start writing in and telling us we suck, we're just going to do it.
00:14:04
Speaker
or telling us what topics you'd like us to cover. That's true. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to call you bitches. I meant it in like the nice way. You know, like, Hey, bitch, do that that kind of bitch. Sorry. We, I just want to, I'll put a disclaimer right here that we use bitch as a term of endearment. We do. It's not a derogatory, we're not, it's not meant ever. We apologize if you don't like that word. Sorry. I feel like there's worse ones out there. There are definitely ones, but I know a lot of people are like, really? Yeah.
00:14:33
Speaker
and know No, I'm afraid to say it. Well, don't be afraid to say it. But as long as people understand the way we mean it, I think we're okay. Anyways, movie god. Much like with all the old stories, there's a lot of different versions of the original coming of being for things, you know, I read it like in four different places and in this kind of sums them up. The word gargoyle actually evolved from the French gargoul. It's a legendary water dragon. As the story goes, then priest and now Saint Romanus,
00:14:59
Speaker
arrived to town when they were being terrorized by the Gargul. He said if they built a church, he would slay the dragon. They did as he asked, so he slayed the dragon, which they then tried to burn. Because it could breathe fire, the head and throat would not burn. They attached it to the side of the church to ward off evil. Nice. So Gargul... Wait, they attached all that side because it was alive and they just like... It was not alive. It was dead, but they couldn't burn the head and throat because it was... That's actually even more grotesque.
00:15:29
Speaker
Yes, it's pretty fucked. Let me just put your head on top of this building because I can't make it disintegrate. Right. Sorry. Anyways. No worries. So the French gargoul derived from the Latin gargula, which means gullet. This form of architecture goes back further than 12th century France, which is where that story came from. The ancient Egyptians also employed waterspouts carved and painted to look like animals for the same purpose. Those were most frequently lions.
00:15:56
Speaker
The use of the grotesque and other exaggerated fantastical features could have been used to show physical representations of evil to encourage people to go to church. Like the evils out there, yeah safety is in here. It's also possible they were used as guardians to protect from evil. Towards the end of the medieval period and during the Renaissance, you had artists and sculptors transition to working in architecture, which is likely what led to so many gargoyles.
00:16:19
Speaker
you know, being in that area today, mostly in Europe. Yeah. But yeah, so I was saying before, it like the the ones that they were doing, they were high up, they were not meant for people to see they were there to be functional. So really, what they are carved as was for the artist. That's fair. Yeah. So I think that that's really kind of fascinating when you look at how grotesque so many of them look. Yeah.
00:16:38
Speaker
Grotesques are common in Europe and even in the United States. They're built to symbolize protection, scare away evil, and sometimes to just look rad. They don't have any other architectural functionality when they're just the grotesques, but not a water spout. So that's the architectural side of it. The presence of gargoyles and grotesques coming alive in fiction didn't actually happen until the 1900s. Prior to the 1900s, every reference that you can find in any kind of literature is always to the water spout and not an actual creek know Really? Yeah. That's interesting. At least known literature. Yeah. The first known literary mention of a gargoyle as a creature was in the fourth book of the Wizard of Oz series. Really? Yep. Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz from 1908. They were silent wooden flying creatures with ugly faces referred to as gargoyles.
00:17:23
Speaker
Wait, I thought those were flying monkeys. There were flying monkeys. That is a different book. Oh, sorry, different book. Different book. Yep, I got it. I got it. I know what's happening. From the August 1932 issue of Weird Tales, The Maker of Gargoyles by a Clark Ashton Smith is the first known published example of the architecture itself coming to life.
00:17:43
Speaker
The story begins with a stone carver who is hated and treated poorly by everyone in town. While he carves the two hideous gargoyles for the church, his rage and pain were transferred to one and his lust and needs to the other. Soon the gargoyles were spotted around town. The rage monster tore the throat out of at least one person. The lust monster was terrorizing women in town mentally, technically saving their purity, which is really fun.
00:18:06
Speaker
Yeah. ah The stone carver ran to the tavern where the object of his affections, Nicolette, was working. Once there, both gargoyles busted into the tavern. The stone carver was knocked out in the process. When he came to, he returned to the church with a hammer to destroy the gargoyles. One was covered in blood and the other held a scrap of Nicolette's dress. When he attempted to take the hammer to them, they came to life and began to attack. One of them grabs them and flies high into the air. The stone carver manages to knock off one of the clawed legs,
00:18:35
Speaker
but this causes him to plummet to the ground and die. The townspeople found him with the claw of the gargoyle still embedded in his shoulder. There were other stories featuring gargoyles turned monsters throughout the years. um There's the Horn of Vapula in 1932 by Louis Spence and Conjure Wife in 1943 by Fritz Lieber. The things really started to pick up in the 1970s. In 1971, Doctor Who, which was currently on its third doctor, had an episode called The Demons, which had a gargoyle antagonist. here's a fool yeah In 1972, there is a ridiculous B movie. It was like a straight to TV situation called Gargoyles. It's not it's not a good movie, but it's a fun movie. And it was kind of in that heyday of poor practical effects. So it's it's fun to watch. 1972? 1972, yeah. This looks like
00:19:26
Speaker
actually why does this look like it looks like a creature from something oh it looks like the creature from um had the eyes uh jeepers creepers oh jeepers creepers that was that is a that is a movie yeah yeah but look kind of looks like him kind of Kind of. Sorry. Anyways, I decided to look it up. Anyways. No worries. I watch a lot of old things. I was like, maybe I've seen it. Me too. We should watch more of those. Okay. Then in 1974, the original Dungeons and Dragons game came out um and Gargoyles were a ah monster in that with Scott blocking stuff and still is today. Fast forward to 1984, the movie Ghostbusters, which is one of my favorites of all time.
00:20:08
Speaker
I'm gonna be real honest with you, I've never seen Ghostbusters. I know, I forgive you. it's I can't get upset at people who haven't seen things that I consider to be classics anymore. And it's not that I've never wanted to, I've just never... yeah There's only so much time and there is so, so much media, right? So as much as I want everybody to have seen it, I understand and I i will not... find That will be my nightmare fuel, actually. I think it's also just been so overhyped that it's like, what of the when it gets to that point, I'm like, I don't want to watch it and then hate it because then I'm the asshole.
00:20:37
Speaker
Oh, if you watch it and hate it, and then you just have bad taste. Okay. I'm just kidding. It's funny. It's not serious in any way. It's just got a lot of great one-liners and it's, I don't know, good stuff. Anyways, moving on. Well, not quite. So that featured Vins Clortho, the Keymaster in Zool the Gatekeeper, and they manifest as dog-like protests. Great. My brain.
00:20:59
Speaker
It's probably hitting on some things. I'm not something. I'm Zuul, no. There is no Dana. The Lee Zuul! I remember that scene. I've seen parts of it, sorry, anyways. Vince Clortho, the keymaster Zuul, the gatekeeper, or, you know, Dana. and They must manifest as dog-like grotesques on the building at the center of the ghostly activity in New York City. The 90s saw a shift in how gargoyles are perceived. In most popular fiction, gargoyles have been seen as evil entities. Are you familiar with the animated series, Gargoyles?
00:21:28
Speaker
Yes. i i do I remember little bits and pieces where I remember gargoyles from Moore was the Hunchback of Notre Dame. Yeah, that's also on my list, yeah. but like And I was wondering, that's why I looked looked it up real quick when you said and wasn't really mentioned in fiction because I know there was a book of the Hunchback of Notre Dame written in the 1800s, but I don't think the gargoyles were in there as helpers. Right. yeah Yes, that was a Disney creation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:57
Speaker
Sorry. No worries. but I was a little old. i was am It was from 94 to 97 and at that point I was babysitting and stuff and it wasn't. I was like four to seven. Right, yeah. so and You also watched a lot of stuff from my my childhood somehow. so yeah i don't You may have could just come completely missed the 90 stuff like I did. Unless it was in Power Rangers or Bucky O'Hare. I also miss Power Rangers the same way I missed Gargoyles.
00:22:22
Speaker
I know, sorry. Yeah, the kids I babysat before watched it and so therefore I thought it was too young for me. You could have babysat me. I just died a little bit inside. um But yeah, so so I missed the gargoyles cartoon. I keep meaning to watch it. I absolutely love when things that are typically monsters are actually the good guys. But yeah, as you mentioned, her Hercules, I did this with Monkey. In 1996, Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame, like you said, also featured friendly gargoyles as Quasimodo's besties. And there's still tons of architectural gargoyles in existence today. The oldest known that's still standing is a 13,000 year old crocodile in what's now Turkey.
00:22:58
Speaker
Oh. But the internet gave me a few different options for pictures and none of them matched each other. So like one of them might be replica or some of them might be replicas or just like. Or they're just pictures of of gargoyles that aren't that one but look similar or something. I don't know. And you know, AI is a thing. now Yeah. I can't trust shit on the internet anymore. But there's a lot of really cool interesting ones you can see today even here in the United States.
00:23:22
Speaker
For example, we have this one in the Washington DC Cathedral. What? It's Darth Vader. Oh, God. And then at the Paisley Abbey in Scotland, we've got a xenomorph gargoyle. Oh, my God. You imagine like, I wonder if these were like on the pitch meeting or if they were just like,
00:23:41
Speaker
the I don't know, what are they called? stone I don't think it's stonemasons, are they? like Whoever did them's like little insight jokes. Well, they're carvers. They're they're sculptors, you know and and a lot of the artists transitioned into architecture and and just did what they wanted to do. That's fair, but could you imagine like studying to do stuff like this and ending up like building just square buildings all day? I feel like you'd be like artistically constipated. Yeah, probably.
00:24:08
Speaker
The chapel of Bethlehem in Brittany, France in the early 90s was being restored, and the sculptor Jean-Louis Boistel incorporated modern and pop culture figures into the gargoyles, including gremlins. Nice. Did you get the one with the butts? I didn't get the one with the butts, but the thought that something that is probably inanimate, but also looks like it could come alive, is as we've talked about before, very scary. With these silent stalkers, ever vigilant, hovering over you, it can be easy to think of them only as creatures of darkness.
00:24:35
Speaker
But I think they're beautiful. I think they're cool. But in reality, they're just badass gutters and statues. Yes, I've seen those. Oh, my God. It's like a full on asshole just hanging over his fingers in Germany. Yes. And that one is a functional gutter. Yes. So.
00:24:51
Speaker
Yeah. I know there was a reason though, I think it had something to do with the people who were doing them, either they weren't getting paid properly or they were, I know they were upset by something and they were told to just get it done. Right. And so they did in their own way. I love that. Yeah. Jeez, some of these are very grotesque. I'm sorry, not in a good way, like very, very sexual. Anyways, that's awesome.
00:25:17
Speaker
that's gargoyles yeah and i want to re-watch the hunchback of whatever i don't know how to say it the hunchback you know you know the one yeah i bet you bash would like it that's true what did we watch the other day oh we watched aladdin for the first time he liked it a lot yay yeah i get music from aladdin stuck in my head regularly still oh good yeah i've been singing it so it's definitely gonna happen tonight
00:25:47
Speaker
Tell me about your nightmare. I do feel like I have to ask this before we even like get into it.
Contemplating Fate through Final Destination
00:25:53
Speaker
Have you seen the Final Destination movies or at least the first one? Yes, I've seen at least the first one and maybe the second one and I get them mixed up all the time. Yeah, I know they like got out of control. So it originally came out in the year 2000, which sounded wrong in my head. Yes, the face you're making, I feel the same. But I looked it up and I was like, oh, that was really recent. And then I realized it was nope, nope, it wasn't not recent at all. Welcome to old.
00:26:20
Speaker
Yeah, my my hip hurt the other day when I woke up. And I was like, this is not good. Anyways, a quick fun fact before we get started. The plot of Final Destination was supposed to be an episode of X-Files before they decided to make it into a movie instead. Yeah. Did you watch X-Files? Were you an X-Files kid? I wouldn't say I was an X-Files kid, but my mom loved the X-Files and I watched it with her a lot. I used to watch it on late night TV because like, you know, I'd be on yeah that kind of thing. and It got very, some of it got kind of spooky. Yeah, I remember enjoying it quite a bit. And actually, I think it came on like when it first hit some streaming service of some sort. I i started watching the whole thing and got distracted midway through. But yeah, I like Nissan X-Files. Yeah, me too. But yeah, I just thought that was a really cool, fun fact. So of the final destinations, apparently there's six of them. I feel like that just lost control, like SAW did. Like what are we on? Like SAW52 or something like that? Okay. But the Saw movies actually all tie back together. Oh my God. In a really fucked up kind of way. But that's another story for another day. Okay. So, um, there's apparently another one coming out this year. Um, another Final Destination. Yeah. I thought that was interesting. I feel like I really need to rewatch them all, but that type of port so real is actually horrifying for me. Like it's, it's like, it's the same one as like, what is it called when people break in?
00:27:44
Speaker
Home invasion. Yeah, home invasion or body horror, like that kind of stuff I don't do well with because I'm like, it could be real. Right. Well, tell me if you're ever behind a truck that has poles or wood or anything stacked in it. Tell me you don't change things. Exactly. Definitely. This sounds like a really scary question and feel free to skip it if it's too heavy because because Ace and I argue about this all the time. Do you believe in fate?
00:28:08
Speaker
I do not. You don't believe in fate. See, you can't say you don't believe in fakes, and that's tempting fate. I am so, so sorry. i I don't believe in fate. I don't believe in ghosts. I am so sorry. Yeah, Ace is also a person who doesn't believe in fate. i Not that I feel like everything is predetermined so much, but I do feel like karmic value has its place.
00:28:32
Speaker
I appreciate things that feel like that, but I can't... There's nothing proving to me that it exists, so therefore, I'm not going to hang any of my expectations on it. That's fair, I guess. It it is. like Ace feels the same way, and i I don't know, maybe it's the little Catholic that's left inside of me that's very like... You're not superstitious, but you are a little stitious. Yes, exactly.
00:29:00
Speaker
So in case anyone doesn't remember what Final Destination was, it was a movie from the 2000s. It had people being fated to die in a certain way and doing everything they could to escape it, but they pretty much would die in that way or some similar way regardless. In the case that you're supposed to die from drowning, it would be in an inch or a mountain of water, like somehow the water would find you and you would drown.
00:29:23
Speaker
So I did what an insane person would do. And I decided to go to WebMD style on my fears. Just look into real life final destination style deaths. Yeah, no, it was horrible. It was absolutely horrible. I was like, why am I doing this? I can just picture you going through this. I know how bad you are about this. Listen, normally I can work on this kind of stuff. Like I'll do my research all in one day and then I'll like write my episode the next night or something. This has taken me like a week because I just, I just did not, I couldn't. I was like, this is too dark. I'm so sad.
00:30:01
Speaker
Are you ready though? As ready as I can be. So our first one has pretty similar start to the movie. ah It takes place on December 13 in 1977. 15 of the 16 members of of the basketball team for the University of Evansville were lost to an airplane crash that happened almost immediately after liftoff. The final member of the team, David Furr, was sidelined by an ankle injury. So he wasn't able to join his team on the trip and therefore was the only surviving member. Unfortunately, two weeks later, he was on his way home from a basketball tournament with his brother and lost control of his vehicle. He did not survive the impact. So one thing that I struggled here with
00:30:46
Speaker
beyond like him dying and the way he died. Didn't they like just essentially recast the entire basketball team like two weeks later? What's the word? I don't know, but the recast is a great way to put it. so Well, I mean, maybe it was like the B-team or maybe it was his brother's basketball tournament, not his, maybe? I don't know, different grade, varsity. Maybe. Yeah, it just seemed a little gauche, I guess. You said it was two weeks later. Yes. I wonder if I would feel like playing basketball two weeks after my entire team died. Exactly. But then and maybe that's- Like in memory of them, maybe. Or just, you know, this is what you do and you gotta keep doing it. Yeah. That's sad though. Yeah.
00:31:30
Speaker
So our next one takes place in Russia in 2011 with a woman whose name I'm gonna do my events to pronounce. Fagilu, that one.
00:31:42
Speaker
Makhemetzinov? Yes. That's what we're going to go with. She was Russian. She collapsed at her home due to chest pains. She was pronounced deceased by doctors at the local hospital due to having a massive heart attack. Her funeral was two days later in which she opened her eyes in the middle of the funeral and realized where she was and started screaming bloody murder. They rushed her to the hospital where she lived for another 12 minutes in intensive care before she passed away from another heart attack.
00:32:10
Speaker
So maybe had they caught it, instead of pronouncing her dead, she'd be alive. Yeah. So the family obviously was not happy that she was mispronounced the first time. There are just so many questions like how did it happen, right? And how was it not caught? and The hospital did end up filing an investigation into it, but I couldn't find anything on the outcome of it. And I don't know if it's because of Russia, because, you know, whatever, but that was just a lot. Moving on to 21 year old Jessica Dilema Roll. Jessica was getting ready to go to an event at a local nightclub with some of her fellow classmates. She bailed at the last minute because her boyfriend convinced her not to go because he had a bad feeling.
00:32:48
Speaker
The night of the event, the club caught fire due to the faulty pyrotechnics and killed 238 people. They were either died from smoke inhalation or were crushed to death god from the building collapsing. Five days later, Jessica picked up her boyfriend from work and they were involved in a head-on collision with a truck that killed both of them. ah It's just so crazy how a lot of these are like shortly, very shortly after. But I mean, it also makes you think of like, how often do we miss brushes with death? I unfortunately think about that a lot. Yes. Like Ace and I talk about this all the time. Like I don't know how I'm still alive, especially like with my teenage and twenties, like
00:33:26
Speaker
ah I have no idea how I'm still alive with half the shit I did and the situations I got myself in. But like without even knowing that, like how close do we come with brushes? The way it infiltrates my brain, my intrusive thoughts are if I left for work five minutes earlier or five minutes later, would I have been part of some kind of a collision or something like that? Yeah. and you know it's It's things like that, like, not going to get into my sad coz is here. so It's just, you know, those those are the kind of thoughts that definitely, yeah, intrusive thoughts that I have. Yes. but but So the next one is another Jessica. She happened to be another unfortunate person that happened to her name was Jessica Gawi, um originally from Texas. She had been visiting Toronto and had been at the Eaton Centre Mall during the shooting in Toronto.
00:34:09
Speaker
She had decided to step outside for some fresh air because she was feeling uneasy instead of heading to the food court as planned. As she stepped outside, the shooting in the mall happened, killing one and injuring seven in the food court area. Seven weeks later, Jessica was back home in Colorado. She attended the filming of The Dark Knight Rises in Aurora and was one of the 12 victims who lost their life to a shooting in the moving theater. Oh, yeah.
00:34:36
Speaker
It's crazy. Jeez. Yes. So there's actually like a lot of these and they were really dark and really involved. A lot of them had like shootings or more plane crashes. And honestly, it was really heavy, which I know is the point of this whole situation. But like, again, I want to enjoy researching my topics. So with that being said, my final one is a bit more lighthearted.
00:34:56
Speaker
Enter Franos Selec or Frane Selec, depending on which story you're reading. He's from Croatia. He was featured on Ripley's Believe It or Not as the unluckiest or luckiest man. They couldn't decide.
00:35:10
Speaker
with up to seven death escapes, supposedly. Some of them, as I'm about to read, like it's like maybe he did, like was involved in something similar, but like, come on, but the numbers disputed because some of them don't have enough evidence to fully back them. Like maybe they are able to find the plane that crashed, but no record of him being on it or that kind of thing. But yeah, still a lot going on here. So his first near miss occurred in 1962 when a train that Selick was on derailed and crashed into a freezing river.
00:35:40
Speaker
killing 17 of the passengers on board. He was able to swim out of the river and survived with a broken arm and a hypothermia. damn Yeah, like that one? Okay, maybe. His second brush with death was a year later in 1963, where he states that while flying from Zagreb to Rizek, that the door became detached from the plane slowly, close to landing, the plane crashed. He said that he was sucked out because that happens.
00:36:06
Speaker
And it said that 19 people lost their lives. Selik said he landed in a haystack and he awoke in the hospital with minor injury. It was Croatia. So maybe there were a lot of haystacks. I don't know. How far up was he falling from? So I don't know that. Not sure.
00:36:23
Speaker
But there's actually, I actually looked at that because I had that same question. And there are a surprising amount of people that had survived falls from very high up. But yeah, they were, they were like in the process of landing when apparently this happened. I don't know how close to the ground they were though. But 19 people died, so maybe not close enough. The next view.
00:36:41
Speaker
do you have some backing to them. um In 1966, he was involved in another bus crash when a bus skidded off the road and into a river. Again, this time only four lives were lost and Selick claims he again swam to safety. I would just stop getting on buses. Does this man have any friends? We're gonna get to that.
00:37:00
Speaker
In 1970, Salick claims his car burst into flames and he narrowly escaped death before the vehicle exploded. A few years later in 1973, another fire in his car was ignited by a faulty fuel pump which sprayed gasoline inside his car and ignited. He did end up with some slight burns on that one, but he survived.
00:37:20
Speaker
Jesus. Yes. So it seems fate gave up on trying to murder him for a couple of decades after that. But in 1995, he was hit by a bus um and walked away with minor injuries. So he decided not to get on it. I guess it got on him. ah The final report happened in 1996 when his car was forced off a mountain road, which he claims he leapt out of the car and into a tree before the car fell into a gorge and exploded. I want to see a movie in this kid's life, man.
00:37:49
Speaker
Oh, and he, I mean, he survived one of the world wars too, so I mean, he he lived through some stuff. So once again, he survived. um It seems fate decided that Selik had had enough. So in 2003, at age 72, he won the Croatian lottery worth 600,000 pounds, which is 744,000 US dollars. Wow. Yes. With his winnings, he bought a house, which he later sold and used the last of his winnings to fund a hip operation and build a shrine to the Virgin Mary and gave a lot of money to his family. um Over his lifetime, he was married five times.
00:38:24
Speaker
He stated that he lost a lot of friendships and relationships over the years because people felt that he just brought on bad luck or was a bad omen. He ended up passing away on November 30th in 2016 at 87 years old. I couldn't find the cause of death anywhere, which leads me to believe that it was natural causes. While some of the tales of his survival are pretty unbelievable, the people I mentioned before had some pretty unbelievable misses in death as well. yeah So who knows? Anything can happen. And maybe he made a deal with a crossroads demon. Maybe he was just really lucky. You can only guess.
00:38:57
Speaker
yeah i mean damn yeah that's crazy and and i mean to me like i feel like at this point if i had even one near miss i feel like i would get to a point where i would just live in a bubble i would live in a bubble i would be so afraid that like it was gonna come after me again it being i don't know yeah but then the terrorist win that's true that's true
00:39:24
Speaker
Did you have any nightmarish fuel
Sinister Fun with "Would You Rather?"
00:39:26
Speaker
to share? I don't. I'm going to say, in honor of you having not seen Ghostbusters and it being one of my favorite movies of all time, Ghostbusters is my nightmare fuel. It's family friendly. You can watch it with your kids. it's I mean, maybe not little kids, but no no bad language, no extreme gory violence, no yeah boobs, you know. Boobs. Boobs are good. We like boobs. We do like boobs.
00:39:58
Speaker
So I do have a palate cleanser. I'm not sure how cleansing it is, but we'll see. We'll see. Okay. So I'm doing Would You Rather's again today. Okay. Would you rather find out that every mirror is a window to an alternate sinister dimension or that every book you read transports you into its world, but not all are friendly? The second one. ah but Wouldn't you be worried about getting trapped?
00:40:23
Speaker
um like maybe if you die in the book you die in real life or if a character dies you might die with them. I i suppose it would depend on the book and things if I would like had a like a real life situation where I had to choose between these things but I have always wanted to be to able to dive into my books. That's fair. So I you know sinister shit be damned I'm going. You're like I'm not reading that book that sounds too scary. I don't know that I've ever said that.
00:40:49
Speaker
Well, if you're gonna live it in real life. I can tell you, I would not want to be in the book if it was American Psycho. There you go. That is one of the few books that I think was even too grotesque for me. Anyways, moving on. Would you rather be able to see how people die just by touching them or be doomed to relive the last 24 hours of a deceased person's life when you sleep? I told you, I don't know how cleansing these are.
00:41:17
Speaker
um I think the first one. So you would touch people and see how they die. I would try to use it for good. You would tell them? I would try to use it for good. What if they didn't want to know? I would try to use it for good. I don't think I would tell them no, but I i feel I would try to use it for good. I don't know. I feel like you would just wear gloves and never touch anybody. That sounds like, yeah, that sounds correct. What does that mean? I feel like you're petting your animals.
00:41:42
Speaker
No, the other one, whatever the other one is. Oh my God. What was the other one? Whatever that is. When you sleep, you see the last 24 hours of someone who's died's life. I mean, I have some pretty fucked up dreams already. Yeah, let's go with that one. Oh my God. Let's see. I know. I'm so sorry. um Would you rather find out that your reflection has a mind of its own or that your shadow detaches at night to wander freely? These are some great writing prompts.
00:42:09
Speaker
Let's go with the mirror because I've seen too many things where like the other you, the Dr. Jackal, Mr. Hyde, like you can't, if I can't control it, I don't want it being out there. And the original Peter Pan, I think was Sinister Shadow, right? And there's Dark Link. I mean, there's there's a lot of things. That's true. This already happens to you. ah the Would you rather be followed by crows wherever you go or have insects constantly drawn to you? Crows!
00:42:32
Speaker
ah No, not the second one. No, that already happens to you, the insects. I know. Like, mosquitoes are like obsessed with you. They are obsessed with me. You must be delicious. I am. But also, I love my crew. Would you rather have every text you send be randomly sent to someone in your contact list or every photo you take automatically get uploaded to a mysterious website? What the fuck? Both of those are horrible for my anxiety.
00:43:00
Speaker
I'm definitely not the first one. Okay. And if I know that that's happening, I can just like, it's not like I take my pictures or pictures of my cat. So that's fine. Like you never accidentally take pictures of yourself when you unlock your phone because I do that all the time. No, but I do take screenshots of my, my home screen constantly. Okay. One more. Oh God. Some of these are really scary. Would you rather find an ancient book that grants you unlimited knowledge but at the cost of a year of your life per page read. Or a potion that grants eternal youth with the side effect of eternal solitude. Aww. I mean, I really enjoy solitude, but like- Not to that extent. Not eternally. What was the first one again?
00:43:45
Speaker
The book with unlimited knowledge, but every book you read costs you a year of life. Every s page is a year of life. That's so rude, but I guess that one, because I don't want to be by myself. All right, one more. I know I said one more. One more, one more. Okay. Would you rather have a loyal, undead pet that terrifies everyone else like a gargoyle, or be able to summon spirits that only cause mischief? The first one. Really? I like the mischief spirits.
00:44:13
Speaker
I like a grotesque pet that loves me and everybody's afraid of. and So you can have the mischievous spirit and I will have the grotesque undead pet and then we will go on adventures. That sounds awesome. I'm super down. Let's go make that happen right now. Yes. We're gonna go pet cemetery and summon spirits. So good night. Sweet dreams.
00:44:38
Speaker
If you have topic requests, book or movie recommendations, or just want to say hi, email us at nightmarecottage at gmail dot.com, or visit our website at nightmarecottage.com. Sweet dreams!