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Episode 16 - Parasomnia and The Acid Bath Killer
15 Plays2 months ago
In this episode, Nym dives into the nightmare of parasomnia and Nylene follows the terrifying run of John Haigh, the Acid Bath Killer.
Enter the Nightmare for show notes, sources, transcripts, and more!
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:29
Speaker
Welcome to Nim and Nyleen's Nightmare Cottage, where we discuss dark locations, sinister media, and other tales of the macabre. I'm Nim. And I'm Nyleen. Let the nightmare begin.
00:00:49
Speaker
into the nightmare, if you dare. Happy nightmare. Happy nightmare. Welcome to the cottage. It's like French for cottage. I don't know.
00:01:00
Speaker
It's not? Let's look up. French cottage. Cottage. No, not. It's an antique store. What is a French cottage called?
00:01:12
Speaker
geet. It's G with a an I with a little hat and a T-E. I'm sure that's not how it's pronounced. It's pronounced zeet with a Z-H sound as in vision.
00:01:25
Speaker
So. Zeet. Zeet.
Gardening Challenges and Anecdotes
00:01:27
Speaker
E-E sounds as sheep. And the T is silent. Zeet. And they say English is complicated. so French cottage is zeet.
00:01:38
Speaker
What's nightmare? Oh, you're right. I gotta look up nightmare. Why are we speaking French? You're asking the important questions now. Nightmare in French.
00:01:49
Speaker
Oh. Couchemar. Couchemar. Couchemar. I like it. You gotta have the ha. Yeah. Couchemar. Z? Z. Couchemar Z. Z. Like vision.
00:02:03
Speaker
Z. That makes it sound like dreamy though. Like this sounds like a romantic place to be. Like. I think nightmares are a romantic place to be. I don't. I think they're a necessary part of life that I don't want to like live in a nightmare.
00:02:17
Speaker
And yet here you are. You're right. It's just my existence. I've learned to accept it at this point. You made this choice. No. Choices sometimes are not choices.
00:02:29
Speaker
Forced to situations.
00:02:37
Speaker
My brain keeps changing channels. I do have a bit of a migraine today. know. how are you standing like it's not like you're sitting yeah it's not like a full-on one i think it's more because of the pressure from outside like because it like gets really windy and then cloudy and then sunny and then cloudy and my brain face is like please stop yeah plus it's you know the pollening happening right now the pollening yeah awful But that also means springtime and garden time, which is exciting.
00:03:10
Speaker
What did you play with? For years, I've tried to do food plants. I have a lot of shade in my backyard. It's got a lot of old, beautiful, tall ass trees that cover everything up. Ass trees must smell really bad.
00:03:24
Speaker
Indeed. but So I've come to terms with the fact that I cannot grow most types of food in my backyard, but I still love to garden. and I used to think that flowers and plants that putting forth the effort on plants that you don't eat, don't get anything out of. I thought it was a waste of time. And and and then last year, a couple years ago, I started growing some flowers.
00:03:45
Speaker
For some reason. And it was so rewarding. Yeah. That's where I'm at. I'm like, I'm done growing herbs and vegetables. Like for now, like I'm not done growing herbs. i all Herbs are the easiest thing in the world. So I'll just keep doing that. but Yeah. But the problem for me with herbs is like, I grow so much and don't use it. Mm hmm.
00:04:03
Speaker
And then I feel bad. And especially because it's like full sun back there, 24. have the opposite problem. Yeah. Everything gets scorched. Yeah. And so it's like, i just got to, I got to pick my battles. So we're we're trying to, we're trying to fix a garden. Anyways, you were telling me what you were doing. so Oh, perennials and annuals that come back after seeding and things like that. So I'm mostly I'm just cleaning things up.
00:04:25
Speaker
I cleaned up my little herb bed where we actually had two hard freezes this year. So i actually lost things that come back year after year. So I planted some lavender and eucalyptus in there this morning. And I've got... Did your lavender The rosemary is the big plant.
00:04:41
Speaker
Yeah, but you also had a lavender in the front, didn't you? Oh, that was a few years ago. That one, but that yeah, that one died. Oh, and your rosemary diet? No, my rosemary is the only thing that survived. Yeah, because that one's been around for what, three years now? Something like that, yeah.
00:04:56
Speaker
I wish I had done a before picture before I started cleaning it up. But here's after I cleaned it up before I put anything in it. And then I love the way you do those rocks. It was I'm trying to do something similar, but mine's for drainage.
00:05:10
Speaker
There's just with the plugs of the lavender and eucalyptus. look at the leg. And then and and then there's those are pretty. What are those? Begonias. Oh, those don't look real. I love them.
00:05:25
Speaker
but like the finger that's still in there yes from that one halloween yeah so i believe that was two halloweens ago and i'm pulling apart my tower to redo the herb garden i've got to refresh the dirt it looks like he's inside it does and then i just got some some pictures of nice my little guys so oh yeah oh that's it and we went outside with grim grim will be and i got some new catnip plants and he just went nuts So anyways, I'm just excited to clean it up and make it cute. And it's going to be low effort this year. Lower effort than what I usually do for myself. So it's really chill and and awesome.
00:06:05
Speaker
And I'll ah keep everybody posted.
Pets and Household Chaos
00:06:08
Speaker
Tell me about your day and you did gardening. Yeah, I did do some gardening today, but mine was more just, mine doesn't sound as fun as yours was.
00:06:17
Speaker
I've just been like digging around my irises and trying to because I have the new build. So the landscaping was basically just the worst kind of dirt that you could imagine with layers of whatever trash they had all over but well because you know like they just like and then like tarping and then there's some glass from because they were always drinking on the job and and like yeah it was just like just lots of stuff but so I'm having to like dig through that but was really cool I was actually playing with the clay because like there's so much clay yeah but like there's so many different colors of it
00:06:55
Speaker
I love like picking up big clumps and like tearing it apart. And there's like, cause there's this one that's like red, like the most beautiful orange red. And I was doing swatches on my arm. Nice. This is really beautiful orange red. And there's another one that is like ah blue, not an indigo, not like a powder blue. Almost like, Oh It was just, it was a really pretty like steel gray blue kind of situation. It was so pretty. And then we also have a lot of stands. so It was just fun seeing all the different colors. And I found a lot of rocks that like some of them look like they might have gems in them. So I'm going to clean them up and and let Sebastian play with them.
00:07:32
Speaker
But I'm trying to get to the point where I can fix the garden up so that I can like get all the water draining out of it properly. And then I'm going to let him play in it and plant stuff. But yeah, I just wanted to make sure it was safe. first because currently it is not and dojo my nightmare puppy keeps being a nightmare and going in there and eating the plants and the dirt and digging just leaving paw prints everywhere and then he gets on our bed and then he like just little like paw prints or like he'll like have like dirt kicked in his feet and he'll just sit there licking it so there'll be little flakes of dirt all over my white comforter and
00:08:12
Speaker
I'm sorry. You have a cat, a dog, and a three-year-old, and you have a white comforter? I didn't have the three-year-old or the cat when I bought the comforter. Fair. Fair.
00:08:23
Speaker
How's that going? Is it still white? Yeah. Nice. I mean, I bought a cream. It was more cream, but it's like a white cream. And white enough. I mean, that's still... I do have to wash it often, but, you know, I guess that that's good for hygiene reasons anyways. Yeah, sure.
00:08:39
Speaker
Yeah. But yeah, beyond that, oh, I thought there was something. Oh, yeah.
New Website Features and Updates
00:08:44
Speaker
Sushi got her cone off. Nice. Sushi the cat. Yes. The nightmare kitten. She got her cone off finally.
00:08:50
Speaker
i was taking bets on what her first... thing that she would be doing was I thought she would get the zoomies immediately. That didn't come until like later that night. But she started with literally licking herself for probably 45 minutes straight. Well, she hasn't been able to bathe. Like that's cats bathe themselves. It's part of their... It was to the point where she had fur like pulled at her feet from all the fur that she had like licked off her but yeah she was getting like dandruff and stuff from like not having been able to like yeah but she's great now like she's you can tell she feels better because she's been running around stalking like the dog scaring the crap out of him making him mad and just terrorizing everything in the best way like she's so cute the cute aggression is very real yeah
00:09:40
Speaker
Yeah. Like every time I see her, I just pick her up and kiss, her kiss her until she yells and then put her down. Yeah. I do the same for Grimm. And I actually frequently multiple times a day aggressively tell monkey, look at how cute he is.
00:09:53
Speaker
Look at how cute you're not looking. He's so cute. ah look at home ah so And this conversation happens at least once a day. So if you want to know what it's like to be married. That's fair. i wasn't i wasn't sure if if you had the same problems. i Because i know i know that cats don't like it. I know I'm pushing him ah her away by doing this.
00:10:13
Speaker
But you know what? She cuddled with me for two whole minutes last night. Aww. I love that. Oh, and um when I was on the phone with Ace the other day, I was on the speaker with him, and she got on my chest In front of the phone and just started purring and just sat there. And I'm just like, fucking whore. Stealing my husband.
00:10:38
Speaker
I'm sure he doesn't have to go around. He should only be yours and everybody else should leave him alone. Correct. You're right. I apologize. know They always want to cuddle with him. He's snuggly. know, but like...
00:10:49
Speaker
That's he tells me. He's like, you could join the cuddle pile. And i was like, i want to join the cuddle pile. I don't like to share. I want to be the cuddle pile. Yeah. But you were saying something.
00:11:01
Speaker
Yeah. So you had mentioned Sushi and her cone. She was featured. we We have put a new section on the webpage. By we, she means she.
00:11:12
Speaker
Right, sure, but whatever, we've put a new thing I want you to get credit for the work you do. Well, the name of the section is called Nim's Nightmare. So, I mean, i did put my name on it. So you're just taking my pictures and using them for your webpage?
00:11:27
Speaker
I'm just kidding. yeah Yes, yes, I am. I have a hard time really classifying it because I don't want pigeonhole what that space is going to be. Yeah, no, that's fair. But, you know, it'll be part maybe show notes for the for this part of the podcast and part I just want to show off my garden or bitch about something. I don't know. We'll see.
00:11:47
Speaker
We will see what happens. That's fair. Maybe I'll break in one day do my own post. you should do that but if you would like to see sushi in her cone of shame you can check that out on nightmare cottage.com and click on nims nightmares that was me clicking i could put a sound effect in wow you don't like my sound effect i actually love your sound think i could do really great sound effects actually let's do it like what i can't whistle well damn was gonna say whistle
00:12:21
Speaker
This is coming out. Nope. After. This is coming out after. But we are recording it before Paddy's Day. Yes. And Dojo's My Nightmare Puppy.
00:12:31
Speaker
He turns 10 this year. 10? On St. Paddy's Day. Aww. Yeah. He's an old man. yeah Grim just turned 2. No.
00:12:42
Speaker
Last week in February. So, yeah. He's a baby. No, he's not. he's ah He's a grown-ass cat now. No, he's still baby. always be baby. Exactly, he baby. So yeah, we're maybe gonna, maybe I'll force you to do a birthday celebration. I'm sure he'll look terrified on any pictures I take of him because he always looks horrified at whatever's happening around him. But he's part chihuahua, so that's to be, but the good kind of chihuahua, not the weird.
00:13:13
Speaker
i Are you chihuahua shaming people? I'm not shaming people, I'm shaming the dog. Like, I
00:13:22
Speaker
apple head chihuahuas are cute because they're small but they're also so ugly that they become cute they're they're that but like you know like in the way that like a really scruffy dog is just so ugly it becomes cute yes like that so don't nobody come at us ah Sorry if you have an apple head.
00:13:43
Speaker
i have a deer head and it's better. so Oh, you should send all of the pictures of your dogs and cats to nightmare cottage at gmail.com. For real. Anyone who has any kind of pets.
00:13:56
Speaker
I don't care what kind. Including apple head chihuahuas. Yes. Including apple head chihuahuas. Because honestly, i love all animals. I don't care. Honestly, I would love to see like if you guys have like any different like I mean, not dogs or cats, but I love dogs and cats too.
00:14:11
Speaker
Send us pictures of any of your pets or familiars or whatever you got. And their names. And their names. Please. Yes. And thank you.
00:14:27
Speaker
So what are we yeah what are we, what are what are what are we talking about today?
Exploring Parasomnia
00:14:32
Speaker
Oh, just through your glasses. I think you might need those. You just did what I do where like, I just like yeet something on accident. my hand just goes, no, just can't have that.
00:14:43
Speaker
It's time to projectile something. You're done with that. Are you familiar with the term parasomnia? I'm not. Parasomnia is but it's several different types of sleep disorders that involve some kind of action without awareness, like sleepwalking or talking in your sleep, or hallucinations like night hags or sleep paralysis demons. Oh, no, no, no, no. no no Okay.
00:15:07
Speaker
Well, before I get too far, if you have recurring issues with any part of your sleep, please talk to your doctor. There are also some really great free resources online that can give you some things you can try at home.
00:15:18
Speaker
The National Sleep Foundation is really great place to start if you haven't thought about it yet and just kind of wanted an easy, noncommittal way to look up some stuff. And that's the NSF.org. And we will put that in the show notes.
00:15:29
Speaker
And I will say, man, my CPAP changed my life. Like, I know that sounds like a really old lady thing to say. Yeah. But I'm not that old. but Actually, he apparently was the youngest patient in his office.
00:15:42
Speaker
But wow yeah, that's what he told me. He's like, you're the youngest patient I'm treating. I really want to change your life. And I'm like, that's hilarious. And then he did. So for real, like, I know it's uncomfortable to wear.
00:15:54
Speaker
But like, I don't know if anyone has ever gotten to the point that I did where I just I I'm sure people have but I mean, anyone listening? Like, I just I was just passing out. talking to people, not from narcolepsy, but because my body was just like giving up because I couldn't sleep. So yeah, there's a little while where anytime we wanted to hang out, it was driving. Oh, yeah. yeah i would fall asleep sorry Yeah.
00:16:16
Speaker
I'm so glad you got through all that and that you're on the other side of it. So that's really awesome. Sorry. Interrupt you. All right. No, no, that's great. That's why we're here. oh yeah. For me to interrupt you specifically.
00:16:28
Speaker
Yeah. Of all the parasomnia stuff, I'm going to be focusing mainly on sleep paralysis and the various hallucinations today. Okay. Judging by your reaction right now, like you're acting like I'm talking about clowns or dolls right now.
00:16:43
Speaker
Have you your your you, you look like you're scared before I say anything. Have you had any personal experiences with any of that? Yes, 100%. Have I told you about my sleep paralysis demon? haven't. I don't think you have.
00:16:55
Speaker
Oh, it's twofold. One, i it doesn't happen often. I think in my entire life, maybe Maybe four times. So not not bad. Okay.
00:17:05
Speaker
But when it happens, it's horrifying. And so for me, it's any time that I sleep on my back, which again, I'm sure it has something to do with my sleep apnea that I now know I have.
00:17:16
Speaker
For me, it would always be a dream. So I'm very good at lucid dreaming now. um i didn't used to be my cousin who passed away actually taught me how, which is amazing.
00:17:27
Speaker
But... Can you teach me? Oh, yeah. It's really simple. Look, guys, when you're dreaming... when When you're sleeping, whatever. when Whenever you're in a situation and you're not sure if it's a dream, try to read.
00:17:40
Speaker
Try to look for clocks. And if you feel unsafe, say, I'm done with this. Literally, keep telling yourself, I'm done with this and look for a door. It doesn't matter if it's a manhole, if it's a doorway, if it's a cave.
00:17:54
Speaker
Look for a door and say, safety's on the other side. Just keep telling yourself that. And that is your way out. One, that's how I got out of my sleep paralysis. Two, If you start noticing, i keep trying to read things, especially time and books and writing on the wall that just like AI, it'll it'll make your brain realize that it isn't reading. And after reading, it isn't that you're dreaming.
00:18:17
Speaker
And after a while, this takes a long time. But after a while, because you start noticing that, you'll be able to start noticing more and you'll start feeling that feeling of dread and you'll be like, Oh, no, I'm not going that way because bad things will happen.
00:18:32
Speaker
Like even when things kind of start, it's so funny because I don't just your does your do your nightmares have music? That's a complex question. Yes, sometimes. Yeah, sometimes. Okay. So for me, when things start to get sinister, the music does too. And so the vibes.
00:18:47
Speaker
Right. And it's really funny because I'll tell myself I'll be like, yeah, no, not doing that. nope this is getting really sinister and then things will kind of start to shift like i won't say those words but something's shift and i'm like no uh things are happy this is exciting i love this this is so much fun and then things will get like bright again anyways so sleep paralysis demon you look i overwhelmed you no i am so fascinated with everything you're saying right now and i really want to talk a lot about it here But um yeah, so sleep paralysis, even. So like I said, it's only happened a few times in my life. But whenever I'm sleeping on my back, it's usually a dream that starts to get very sinister.
00:19:24
Speaker
And then I start feeling breathless. And I start feeling a weight in the center of my chest, like on my sternum. And usually what will happen is things will get really dark.
00:19:35
Speaker
And everything around me starts to get very dark. very dark and like almost like I'll be in a, like, I remember one of them specifically that it always, that, that it happened. And I was in a house, all the lights turned off.
00:19:48
Speaker
I saw a stairway with a window on it. I started going up the stair. It was like a turning stair, started going up the stairs and I saw her in the corner, her, she's my sleep paralysis demon.
00:20:01
Speaker
And I want to say that it's a woman just because of her frame. Mm-hmm. She's wearing white. I will say very grudge-like. Very long black hair covering her face.
00:20:15
Speaker
And for me, it's very much like the Dementors in Harry Potter. Where they kind of like... She kind of like gets really close to me. But she has nothing. Like where her eyes are, it's just black pits.
00:20:30
Speaker
Where her mouth is, it's a big black pit. And it gets wider and wider and wider. And she just... ends up right in my face and every single time she gets right here sorry i'm covering my face if i'm not able to be her but like in a silent scream well that she gets this close to me and then she screams every single time and that's what wakes me up and when i wake up i'm usually stuck like this and i'm going
00:21:01
Speaker
Like trying to scream. Again, it's only happened a few times. You look horrified. No, no, this is amazing. um I mean, it sucks for you. but Yeah. so But it's funny because I told my mom about this um because one of the times that it happened, I was at in my parents' house on the couch and she was right outside the door.
00:21:21
Speaker
And I could hear her. but I couldn't move and I could hear my heart beating very slow and I couldn't breathe and I couldn't move. I was just like stuck and I was trying to scream and I was finally able to just scream like with everything I had, I was finally able to move.
00:21:42
Speaker
um but I heard her right outside the door. And so I told her about it and she was like, Oh, you're trying to astral project. And I was like, I'm sorry. Like, I'm sorry. What? And, um, and She basically was saying that there are a lot of women in my mom's side of the family that claim to be able to astral project and that it usually starts with a form of sleep paralysis where they can feel themselves being pulled out of their bodies.
00:22:10
Speaker
And she's like, just go with it. And I'm like, I i will not. i will not be doing that because I would like to stay in my body. Right. i'm um I want to stay in it. but So, um because, yeah, that was one of the big things. She's like, just make sure you get back before sunrise. Otherwise, you'll get stuck. And I'm like, why are we just saying this? Like, oh, make sure you get to the store on time or they'll close the doors behind you. Like,
00:22:34
Speaker
no ma'am this is a little bit no i'm i'm good i'm i'm here so that's that's my story and why it was horrifying when you said those words i've taken it over the whole thing no i i think you'll see why here in a bit but i'm very glad that you were willing to tell that story okay so um i'm gonna i'm gonna go ahead um i've i've had two very specific times where i've had sleep related hallucinations and They aren't as cool as yours. Sleep related hallucinogen. Like, like I've had one where like, that was, I was really sick and I had a fever though, but like I was having a nightmare and I couldn't open my eyes, but I finally got them open and the nightmare kept happening in front of me. But like, it was like in my room.
00:23:17
Speaker
but everything was like kind of overlaid. Does that make sense? Like a, and like as if it was a projector, right? Yeah. I mean, that's a thing. I mean, there's all sorts of, this isn't that the one I'm specifically going to talk about. It was actually just a few years ago.
00:23:31
Speaker
i woke up and I was looking out of the door of my bedroom, which like looks into the hallway with the living room off the side, ah living room lights were on, which was normal because monkey stays up way later than me. I could hear whatever game it was. He was playing.
00:23:43
Speaker
But something felt strange and a little wrong. I hadn't noticed I couldn't move yet until a giant fucking spider leg crawls in through the door from the ceiling. who And then another one. And then I see its body.
00:23:56
Speaker
it was It was very realistic. Like everything like I could feel like it's it's still vivid to me now. I'm not afraid of spiders. No, but a giant fucking one coming through your Yeah, like the size of a fucking century old tortoise. Like a huge fucking... Not cool.
00:24:09
Speaker
Yeah, on the ceiling crawling into my bedroom. and While I can't move in my bed. But yeah, I just remember being flooded with concern. But i was also strangely calm. Like...
00:24:20
Speaker
I think it's because I couldn't move. Because I have a like a jump reaction to bugs in general. You've seen it. Yeah. We call it bug face. We call it bug face. But yeah, I don't remember how I got out of it, but it was so clear. like i can I can see it right now crawling into my room.
00:24:36
Speaker
Anyways, to get into it, because we've been... It's fine. I had a lot of fun with the last one, and we were kind of bullshitting in that one too. so and But yeah, so to get into the nitty gritty, I'm going to break down sleep paralysis a little bit. Okay.
00:24:49
Speaker
Muscleatonia... is the paralyzation of the muscles during REM sleep that prevents you from acting out your dreams. If it kicks in too late, you might sleepwalk. If it kicks in too early, you'll still be conscious, but you'll be unable to move.
00:25:02
Speaker
Frequently, this causes fear and panic, but you're still kind of in a dreamlike state, so you're flooding your brain with fear, which frequently causes terrifying images or imagery to creep Sleep demons are vivid hallucinations of a being of some sort. Yep.
00:25:17
Speaker
Your sleep paralysis demon, that's what that is. Yeah. They take a lot of forms, but a lot of have a lot of similarities, which I'll get into in a bit. There's three main types of sleep hypnopompic or while awakening hallucinations.
00:25:32
Speaker
If I have one tonight, I swear to God, I'm going to ash will reject and turn into a spider and attack you. I have sources in a link that will help prevent that from happening. We'll talk about that at the end. Prevent me from... think Tools to use to keep yourself from attacking you?
00:25:48
Speaker
I'm like, what are you what are you putting a protection spell on yourself? No, we're going to have dream battles. Dream battles? That sounds awesome. Yes, so we have to have dream battle training. Oh oh my God, I love all of this.
00:26:00
Speaker
Me too. should write that book. Yes. That goes with the vampire lore. That's a whole nother thing. Okay. This note, this being in here when I'm editing will remind me to write this shit down somewhere.
00:26:11
Speaker
So first I'm going to talk about the intruder hallucinations. This is frequently the shadow type people or various monsters like your sleep paralysis demon, either seeing them in vivid detail. ah have goosebumps.
00:26:22
Speaker
Or as a silhouette. I'm so sorry. But you know, this is the nightmare cottage. It seemed eventually we should have talked about this. so Yeah. Are you okay? Yeah, no, no, I'm good. I'm just going to sit over here and twitch. It's fine.
00:26:34
Speaker
I feel so bad. Why? This is the night. You just said it's a nightmare. I know. We literally tell stories to make people uncomfortable. all right. It's usually me you're making uncomfortable, but it's fine. But you must be protected at all costs. Okay, well, you can protect me after. Just scare me first. Okay.
00:26:48
Speaker
Either seeing them in vivid detail or as a silhouette, or even just sensing them behind you when you can't move. In most cases, even if the figure is barely visible or not visible at all, you're super hyper aware of their presence.
00:27:00
Speaker
nice we have fresh ah your face Next, we have pressure on the chest, which yeah. so sometimes this is accompanied by a demon, a hag or other grotesque creature crouching on your chest.
00:27:14
Speaker
Sometimes it's just a feeling without an obvious entity. Physical pressure, shortness of breath, and sometimes the sense of being strangled are the primary symptoms for that one. Yeah. And then finally of the three, there are movement hallucinations.
00:27:29
Speaker
This is when the intruder hallucination sits down next to you and you feel the bed move or any other feeling of movement during a sleep paralysis episode. Oh, hate that. If the sleeper is feeling themselves move, they do not have control over it.
00:27:42
Speaker
oh So there's also hypnagogic, if I'm pronouncing that right, or while falling asleep hallucinations. I have those all the time. Like the ones where you like you get kind of twitchy?
00:27:54
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Some of them can get more vivid than others. Yeah, no, Ace scares the crap out of me with that. He like, because he has the twitchiest little legs when he's sleeping. And man like, because I'll be about to fall asleep and I'll just all of sudden the whole bed will just, I'm like, why?
00:28:10
Speaker
Or when you, ah like and like like in school where you would see somebody jerk away. Yeah. When I got to this point where I found this term and what this is in my research, I was already so deep and I still had so many open lines.
00:28:23
Speaker
I'm probably going to come back and do a ah story just on the while falling asleep hallucinations. Because there was there was a ton of that there too. But I already wrote a lot more today than I normally do.
00:28:34
Speaker
No, but like, hold on. You said do you get a lot of the like, while you're falling asleep ones. Like, tell me more about that. It's something that has happened a lot since I was a kid. My best friend growing up would be able to tell you about something I would call squirrel land.
00:28:49
Speaker
It's like we had billion sleepovers and all we were falling asleep because we would like talk until we'd fall asleep. At some point I said, apropos of absolutely nothing is that a squirrel because i saw a thing and i wanted to clarify what it was but obviously we were laying in her parents house like falling asleep and yeah so anyways that's where you're kind of you're both awake and interacting with that dreamland that you were doing how you said that the nightmare was still going yeah it almost feels kind of like that okay interesting yeah i will try to write down some of those as they happen them between now and whenever i get to that next episode that sounds interesting yeah
00:29:27
Speaker
There are recurrent and isolated parasomnias. Isolated is for someone like me who, and actually you, who has experienced it just a small handful of times across the course of a lifetime. And then recurrent is for when people who experience it on a regular basis. I could not imagine. No, I couldn't.
Triggers and Cultural Interpretations of Parasomnia
00:29:44
Speaker
So one can experience parasomnia symptoms from inconsistent sleep patterns or just general lack of sleep. There's a higher likelihood of recurrent episodes in those that are narcoleptic, bipolar, have PTSD or anxiety disorders.
00:29:57
Speaker
ah Some ADHD medications as well as Benadryl have been linked to cases as well. Benadryl would explain a lot for me. Yeah. I have to take half of one and I still end up passing out.
00:30:08
Speaker
Yeah. Oh yeah. i will only take one and only if I don't have to wake up at a specific time the next day. Because you do feel that full body, like your body just shuts. You feel it just wave over you. That just heaviness.
00:30:21
Speaker
Yeah. and But your brain. Yeah. I'm just wondering if that, I mean, that would explain a lot actually. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely, you can look up a lot of specific benadryl cases. I actually considered doing an experiment, but I didn't hate myself enough to do it. So don't do that.
00:30:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. There's also been people with a genetic predisposition for parasomnia. And then there's the whole cultural priming bit. This is where your whole family, neighborhood, culture, whatever, knows that the sleep paralysis monster is real and that it's not an if, but a when you will be visited.
00:30:51
Speaker
So kind of like what my mom said. Right. That's why I was the chest pressing... um And the the cultural priming part, I was like, wow, that's I didn't find any other specific stories that included those bits. And then you you provided that for me. So funny.
00:31:09
Speaker
So, yeah, you're if you're raised to believe that this is a thing and it it'll eventually get you that kind of stress and trauma and assumption can really fuck with the person. Yeah. That kind of conditioning really does affect a person's psychology. It's real.
00:31:21
Speaker
I really hate it, though, because like there were times where I was like, nah, I do want to. I'm going to try it. I'm going to try to do it. couldn't. I could never like force it to happen. Like I would try sleeping on my back and everything. And I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna do it. Think think about it.
00:31:34
Speaker
Think about that bitch. That sleep paralysis bitch. Never happened. Interesting. So a fun fact about sleep paralysis. The first medical documentation was in 1664 by Dutch physician Isbrand van Diemerbroek.
00:31:47
Speaker
You said that a lot better than I would. I doubt it. Prior to that, sleep paralysis was referred to as nightmares across many languages and cultures. So something that did take me by surprise was intertwined with sleep paralysis and sleep hallucinations. Mm-hmm.
00:32:02
Speaker
But it should be obvious why I don't know why I never considered it. i mean, obviously, this has been happening to human beings forever. And that means that regardless of your culture, your upbringing, whatever, somebody around you is going to be susceptible to this shit. Yeah. And I'm sure that back in the day, it was more of like, they felt they might be cursed. Sure. You know, demons or witches or what have you. Exactly. And it's so the vivid hallucinations without a scientific explanation. What else could you possibly think? Yeah.
00:32:28
Speaker
Regional spirits and cryptids have been adapted and woven into their stories. a lot of them have extraordinarily similar traits from culture to culture, which I guess we can get right into. In Scandinavia, we have Mara in Old High German and Old Norse, or Mer in Bold Dutch.
00:32:44
Speaker
Mara is known as a dark creature that would sit on your chest and haunt your dreams. oh In Germany, they had charms to recite to protect them from the Mara. One of which was here. I am lying down to sleep. No nightmare shall plague me until they have swum through all the waters that flow through the earth and counted all stars that appear in the skies.
00:33:04
Speaker
Oh, wow. Yeah. So what it was a cloudy night? You fucked. In Poland, the Mara are known as people that leave their bodies while they sleep and move around as moths.
00:33:16
Speaker
Oh, in Croatia, she's a dream siren luring men to their demise. In Serbia, It's a ghost that strangles you in your sleep. As you might have realized, Mara or Mare is why we call them nightmares. yeah In Japan, sleep paralysis is referred to as kanashibari, which translates to bound up with metal.
00:33:37
Speaker
As sleep paralysis manifests in many different ways, so does kanashibari, because it can be instigated in different ways. If a person is possessed by evil spirits called Tsukimono, It can cause sleep paralysis in that they prevent them from moving.
00:33:50
Speaker
Makurageshi are other demons that possess people when they sleep. They are are known for turning people around in bed so their feet are at the top. Oh, God. People would wake up to see a fucked up looking child sitting on their chest. No, why would you say that to me? My kid's probably going to crawl on me this... sorry.
00:34:08
Speaker
But he's not scary. He's really cute. You have no idea how many times he's stood behind me going, Mama. He's perfect. Oh, God. So and there was also, oh, and the Makura Geishi will also like to flip your pillow around. Oh, that's good. Well, there was an ancient belief that if your so that your soul leaves your body when you sleep, but if your pillow is flipped around, you won't be able to come back.
00:34:32
Speaker
And your mother was concerned about you not being able to come back, right? Folklorist Miyata Nabarro. says that in the past in Japan, dreaming was thought of as a way to go to another world. And in order to dream, people would kindle a sleep-inducing aroma into their Hakamakura, or a box pillow. The pillow was their mode of transportation in the other world, and if they had them flipped by the Makura-geshi, this would bring disorder and terror.
00:34:57
Speaker
That's fascinating. Priests and sorcerers could also be the cause of Kaneshibari. They could use their spiritual workings to inflict it on people to various ends. And then ghosts were another culprit for causing Kaneshibari because, of course.
00:35:10
Speaker
Every time you say Kaneshibari, I hear Anto Shikari. It's a band. Never mind. I am old. Heading over to Brazil. Do you know Portuguese?
00:35:25
Speaker
Please don't make fun of me. won't. La pizadera? Pizadilla? Well, it's probably different in Brazil because it's Portuguese. Probably because Portuguese isn't Spanish, but... Yeah, pizadera.
00:35:36
Speaker
I don't know how... I mean, I don't know Portuguese. and I know it's very close but to us, but... La Pisa Dira is known to be an old hag that will target those who have overeaten with sleep paralysis and the pressing of their torso. That makes sense. Like, cause in eat when eat so much, you fall asleep.
00:35:54
Speaker
Exactly. She's used largely to teach the importance of moderation and humility to children, but the tale varies from town to town. Speaking of old hags in Newfoundland and parts of the United States, the old hag as a prevalent conveyor of sleep paralysis i wonder why they're old it's probably the terror response mine's young really well i mean i i can only tell because her hair is black black like jet black and you're comparing her to the girl from the ring from the grudge from the grudge just because her skin but again she was moonwashed so i mean her skin just she was gray model gray but she was very small frame anyways
00:36:33
Speaker
Fair. I mean, there's sleep paralysis demons all over the world, and they generally share the same characteristics, and each culture has their own interpretations. Do they ever talk about men being sleep paralysis demons? I wonder.
00:36:45
Speaker
I wonder if men see men and women see women or anything. I know that sounds weird. i just It's just curious curiosity, i guess. Well, that good question. And we will maybe, I mean, not specifically answer that question, but I have some examples coming up. Cool.
00:36:59
Speaker
I'm going to Google it too. Yep. Another thing I found interesting, though, is that many people who have reported UFO sightings um and abductions have had issues with sleep paralysis or exhibit symptoms of one who experiences sleep paralysis.
Personal Sleep Paralysis Stories
00:37:12
Speaker
So it's very, very possible that a lot of the people that truly believe that they had an alien abduction were just experiencing some really horrific sleep paralysis. Are you saying you don't believe in alien abductions?
00:37:23
Speaker
Come on, Nim. This gonna be a long episode, guys. Sorry. i don't have an easy answer for that.
00:37:34
Speaker
But I believe that there are definitely statistically, there must be life on other planets beyond us. Yes. And we're on this planet.
00:37:46
Speaker
I, we don't know. Feels that also statistically it's incredibly unlikely. think we're the only living things? No, I don't think that we're the only living things. I literally just said, I don't believe that we're the only living things, but I think it's very unlikely that people from another planet I don't know, man. That's a really like, you know, you know, I'm like very evidence based and like, yeah I'm going to find some alien stories. I've been trying to avoid them because I didn't know what your face would do, but now I do. So I feel comfortable with it.
00:38:18
Speaker
So we'll save this conversation for a future day. You just like watching me squirm. I do. Just, I mean, you seem to too, since every single story that you do seems to be about my worst literal fears. Fair.
00:38:29
Speaker
I thought you were my friend. You don't know anything. don't
00:38:35
Speaker
Anyways. Anyways. So we think that might be what's happening with alien abductions is maybe sleep paralysis. I think that it is very likely that at least some of the people who believe they've been abducted actually experience sleep paralysis.
00:38:50
Speaker
Interesting. Something prevalent now are descriptions of shadow people and hat man. hat man? Isn't that just Baba Yaga? No, Baba... i mean No, Baba Duke is what you're thinking. Actually, I didn't think we were supposed to say that. I think that summons him, doesn't it?
00:39:08
Speaker
this Beetlejuice? I don't know. Go on. So the hat man is the one that Monkey has experienced. Oh gosh. I was watching The Nightmare, which is a documentary that tells the stories of several people who have experienced frequent sleep paralysis, and one of the people was describing the hat man, at which point Monkey stopped and pointed and said, that one's mine.
00:39:28
Speaker
Which was kind of a chilling moment for me. Monkey and I have been together for like 20 years and I had never heard of him ever having any kind of sleep paralysis you know experience at all. For everybody, Nyleen is currently pulling her shirt up to cover her face and hide behind her shirt. It's my stress response. I put my face in my shirt. It's horrible. I usually i hide behind my hair, so I get it.
00:39:50
Speaker
If you Google the hat man, you would be amazed at how much pops up. Like it's extremely common. Tell me, tell me about it I'm afraid. I will in just a second, but I will say that there's even like a website called the hat man project.com.
00:40:04
Speaker
And also the story I'm about to tell you about monkeys experience with the hat man happened. it had to have been in the late eighties. And he had never heard of any yeah kind of thing.
00:40:16
Speaker
No reference to this at all. So there's a shit ton of places on the internet that you can find people describing their Parisomnia stories. But I actually had a really rare opportunity to collect some stories from people we actually know. oh God.
00:40:28
Speaker
So I'm going to be sharing those with people's permission. These are people you and I both know. Okay. I mean, I normally have to resort to Internet stories because, you know, we I haven't really talked about something that people I know have had experiences with. And something that I think is very interesting is that literally everybody I ask have a story. Yeah.
00:40:46
Speaker
Not one person said, yeah, no, not me. So but thought that was fun. Monkey's story mirrors a lot of the stories I read online about the Hat Man, so I'm gonna start with that one. ah He was pre-teenish at the time.
00:40:58
Speaker
He woke up to either the doorbell or someone knocking. Someone was at the front door. He heard his dad talking to whoever it was, insisting that Monkey wasn't there. And he said, nah, you. Because that sounds like something he would say.
00:41:09
Speaker
Not then. i didn't become that until me, I think. um it He heard his dad talking to whoever it was, insisting that monkey wasn't there. It was very clear that whoever was at the door was there for him.
00:41:22
Speaker
Monkey peeked around the corner to see what was happening and saw a shadowy silhouette of a man with a wide brimmed hat and a trench coat. Despite not being able to see the hat man's face, he knew the man had seen him.
00:41:33
Speaker
The panic shocked him awake. He knew he had fucked up. Not only had the hat man caught him, ah he also showed the hat man that his dad was lying by saying he wasn't there. Whatever shit he had gotten himself into, now his dad was in it too.
00:41:46
Speaker
And that's what woke him up because he, not only is he in trouble for whatever it was he's coming for, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So now, now his dad's in it. And I don't know, that feels like every 80s movie ever is like, yeah. you So that was his hat man experience.
00:42:00
Speaker
And that's how that one usually goes it's it's it's an ominous figure with a wide-brimmed hat it's looking for you that's looking for you yeah i don't that yeah and there's so many stories about it from people who had this vision dream whatever years and years and years ago before the stories of the internet could you know churn it up and make it worse ah so there is that one When I asked my mom, who is a registered nurse, by the way, so she you know understands the physiological bits about it, you know, but I asked her if she ever had any parasomnia related incidents ever. And here's what she told me.
00:42:37
Speaker
ah She said, I woke up and for less than a minute, I was blind. I was beating on your poor dad saying, I can't see. I can't see. you Turn on the light. he says the lights are on honey a note on that that's it that's the whole story um she just she woke up and she couldn't see yeah i just want to say that this was like over 40 years ago and it was a one-off thing so anybody who's like that's a stroke sign it's not this time but yeah um geez yeah but that was uh that was hers was just being like the lights were on she couldn't see and yeah freaked her out
00:43:08
Speaker
Our friend Marky has a sleep paralysis situation that doesn't happen a lot, but has happened multiple times where she can feel someone or something crawling into bed beside her, but she can't move. No, no, no, no, no. no She said, it's freaky as hell. I've never seen the thing. The thing is capitalized, but I can feel it.
00:43:28
Speaker
Like I can feel the mattress dip and I can feel it looming over me. Mm-mm. I was able to turn my head once to try and see it, but it took all my effort to do so, and the asshole vanished before it could materialize past a shadow.
00:43:41
Speaker
It's more tactile than than visual. It's creepy. well I hate all of this. Our friend Myra contributed as well. She says, I've had experiences waking up usually between 2 and 4 a.m. after feeling something brush my legs or feet.
00:43:59
Speaker
Most times it was after a very emotional, volatile night or during times of stress. I would wake up and see what I thought was a figure either walking past my bed or into my closet. I kept the door closed. So in my brain fog, I was trying to understand how it was going in there.
00:44:14
Speaker
I do you remember one night waking up after seeing it pass and walking to the closet. I went to open the door and it felt really dark in there. Even when I snapped the light on, it felt like the bulb was dim. I haven't encountered it anytime after leaving that house, though I have dreamed of them, just not seen them.
00:44:30
Speaker
shadow Shadow people. And last but not least... Ace told me about this one from when he was a kid, elementary school aged. yeah He says, one night I remember waking up very suddenly from a dead asleep to adrenaline alertness.
00:44:48
Speaker
I had this vague sense that something was very, very wrong, but I couldn't put my finger on what it was. Then I turned over in my bed and saw red light coming out from the sheer over my window. Primal fear.
00:44:59
Speaker
Something I don't know that I've ever felt before or since. Just fucking shot through my body. I just kept staring at the window, literally praying someone would save me from whatever was out there. But even as I literally pissed myself, I was so scared I felt pulled to look outside.
00:45:13
Speaker
Compelled maybe? Like I had to see what was out there before I could be safe again. That part was the most dreamlike, to be honest, because it felt very dream logic-y, but the rest felt as real as leaning on this counter writing you this message.
00:45:27
Speaker
So fourth grade me climbs out of bed, shuffles over to the window, sobbing, and pulls the sheer apart just enough to look through it. The night sky is filled with this pulsing ochre red light, while midnight black clouds were circling overhead, almost like a tornado was forming.
00:45:41
Speaker
But it wasn't forming over the house, it was forming over the park. I feel inherently that I shouldn't look at the park. But again, it's like I'm compelled. Then I see why the clouds are spinning. They're following the movements of three things that are flying over the park and circling it.
00:45:55
Speaker
Not things. Witches. Witches on brooms. There's no sound except for the wind, but I feel like they're laughing. I know that I'm not supposed to be seeing this, that witnessing this is somehow harming me, but I don't know how, and I'm just standing there anyways, shaking, scared, and covered in pee.
00:46:11
Speaker
It felt like hours, but I remember eventually feeling like I was allowed to step away and close the shear. Like the pressure was holding me back was gone. So I sprinted back to my bed, threw the covers over my head and started crying.
00:46:23
Speaker
I don't remember falling asleep or even a feeling like I was asleep. I just remember feeling like I had been hurt in some non-physical way. or like something had been taken from me. My mom woke me up for school the next day and was surprised that I'd wet the bed since I hadn't done that in years.
00:46:37
Speaker
She thought it was weird that our dog Sammy, who had always slept with me, was not in the room that night, and but instead slept in the basement. When I told her about the dream, she figured I'd had the nightmare because Sammy wasn't in the bed with me. all So that was the collected sleep terrors of our friends and family.
00:46:54
Speaker
You know, it was first I was amazed that all all of you have had stories. And then I was amazed that I'd never thought to ask. And I didn't know. And I got to learn something new about people I have known for every one of you, at least a decade. Oh, yeah. You know, like forever.
00:47:08
Speaker
so close this out, a reminder to take care of yourself and be mindful of your sleep. There's links in the show notes and peer-reviewed scientific ways to improve your sleep health that you can even do at home for free. Have sweet dreams when you're sleeping because there are enough nightmares while we're awake.
00:47:22
Speaker
love that.
00:47:26
Speaker
So this is one that I've been wanting to do for a minute, but and just kept just like the
True Crime Tale: John Hay
00:47:32
Speaker
last one. It's I've had this blog on it because there's so much on it and about it that it's just like it's not just the crimes. It's it's there's just more to it. There's and I don't know if I captured the vibe well enough, but I'll i'll let you know more about how to like there's so much media about it. So, OK, have you heard of John Hay?
00:47:54
Speaker
I don't think so. Okay. So, John Hay was born in 1909 in Stanford, England, to a very religious working class family. The religionist family was a part of were the Plymouth Brethren. Have you heard of them? No.
00:48:08
Speaker
Yeah, I hadn't heard of them either. so I did a quick search on them because I was like, that's interesting. Sure. Apparently it originates from Anglicanism in Ireland from the 1800s.
00:48:19
Speaker
They're considered nonconformist Christian and believe the Bible is the only authority for church doctrine and practices. So not like any... So they believe in holding slaves and eating shellfish. Got it. Yeah, sure.
00:48:31
Speaker
Yeah. And I don't think that they believe in like... hierarchy of the church or anything like that, like the Pope and all that. Like they're like, no, just the Bible period, the end as it's written. They do not consider themselves a Christian denomination.
00:48:45
Speaker
It's not that deep, but what we really should take from this is that they were really religious. And from some sources, the sect at time was known to have a holier than thou opinion of themselves.
00:48:56
Speaker
So... The only books when he was growing up that were allowed in the house were the Bible. He wasn't encouraged to have friends outside the house. Like his dad had built a huge fence all the way around the house to keep outside world from penetrating them.
00:49:11
Speaker
He was very smart. He sang in the choir um and he could play the piano. He even got a scholarship to go to a private school at the time. But even at a young age, he did show some troubling signs and some weird behavior.
00:49:25
Speaker
He was known to tell a lot of lies and he would bully people. And as he got older, he stepped away from his religious beliefs, but still seemed to hold on to his belief that he was better and smarter than most other people, that he could he could convince people to do what he wanted. And that was the most important part.
00:49:44
Speaker
Manipulative. Yes. At one point, he suffered from reoccurring religious nightmares. But beyond this, he had a relatively normal, loving childhood. He just seemed to be a little bit off, right?
00:49:55
Speaker
So as John aged out of school, he pretty much immediately fell into a life of crime. At age 21, he was fired from one of his jobs for stealing from the cash box. After this, he moved on to forging car documents or selling fake shares of companies.
00:50:10
Speaker
Yeah, he was really clever. He was really charming. And honestly, he wasn't too bad looking. It's said that he even practiced his pitches and cons in the mirror to perfect them before executing them. So it was like it was just a show to him.
00:50:22
Speaker
In the end, most of his crimes did catch up to him and he was imprisoned and released a few times over the years for fraud or forgery. He would do anything to get rich and not keep ending up in jail.
00:50:35
Speaker
So he started to become interested in the work of a French murderer at the time, Georges Alexandre Serret, who disposed of his victims using sulfuric acid.
00:50:46
Speaker
John even experimented on mice and found that it only took about 30 minutes for their bodies to dissolve. Around 1943, John was released from prison and shortly after he got a job as an accountant with an engineering firm.
00:50:58
Speaker
While there, he ran into William McSwan, who was a former employer of his when he used to chauffeur for William's family. John was very jealous of William's wealth and lifestyle. On September 9th, 1944, William McSwan and John Hay went for some drinks at the GOAT in Kensington High Street.
00:51:16
Speaker
After they went to 79 Gloucester Road, where John had a workshop. Once in the basement, John hit William over the head with a lead pipe and stuffed him into a 45-gallon drum.
00:51:29
Speaker
He put on a rubber apron, gloves, boots, and a gas mask and poured concentrated sulfuric acid over the body. He stated it only took two days for the body to be dissolved enough that John was able to dump the contents into a manhole that was in the basement.
00:51:45
Speaker
John then went to William's parents, who he knew very well from his previous employment with them, and he told them William had gone into hiding in Scotland to avoid being drafted for the military service.
00:51:56
Speaker
This was smack in the middle of World War II, so the idea that William would go into hiding to avoid having to fight wasn't the craziest thing in the world. And he even kept up the ruse by sending them letters pretending to be their son.
00:52:08
Speaker
Oh, well. This is, I mean, is a clever plot. Yep. Completely skipping ahead here to July of 1945, it had been about 10 months since William McSwan went missing, and John was now living in William's parents' house and had taken over William's job of collecting rent for the properties.
00:52:28
Speaker
The war was starting to come to an end, and the McSwans were asking more and more if John would be coming back soon, now that You know, all the pressure of the draft was over. Well, John didn't like all the questions, and he decided to lure the McSwans to the basement on Gloucester Road.
00:52:44
Speaker
He told them that their son was still in hiding, but had come back from Scotland for a quick visit. Once there, he hit them over the head and disposed of their bodies in the same way as their son, William.
00:52:55
Speaker
This is the same way that Jeffrey Dahmer got rid of his victims. He would put them in a 45-gallon vat of acid. I didn't know that. Yeah. who So after disposing of their bodies, he cashed their pens pension checks and sold all of their properties for about 4,000 pounds, which is about 250,000 US s dollars in today's currency.
00:53:18
Speaker
Fast forward to 1947. It's been about four years since the first three murders and the fraud that had happened. I'm sorry. Go back. hu How did he get that money?
00:53:32
Speaker
So remember, he's really, really good at fraud and forging stuff. So he basically just forged stuff. Makes sense. yeah Sorry, I'm caught up. It's okay. So fast forward to 1947. It's been about four years since the first three murders and that fraud that he did.
00:53:48
Speaker
Unfortunately, John had really liked to gamble and he was now out of money. $250,000. In 1945, 47 money. two hundred and fifty thousand dollars yeah in in nineteen forty five yeah forty seven money yeah um So to combat this, John set his sights on Archibald Henderson and his wife, Rose Knee Berlin.
00:54:07
Speaker
The couple was selling a house and John played the part of eager buyer and they became best friends. At some point, Rose invited John over to their house to play the piano for a housewarming party.
00:54:19
Speaker
Remember how I said he was such a talented piano player? Well, while he was at their house, he decided to steal Archibald Henderson's revolver for future plans. So John then rented a small workshop at 2 Leopold Road in West Sussex and moved some acid drums over there from the Gloucester Road basement.
00:54:37
Speaker
On February 12th, 1948, John invited Archibald to his workshop to show him a new invention that he had. Upon arrival, John shot Archibald in the head with the revolver he stole from the Henderson's house.
00:54:50
Speaker
He then went back for Rose and lured her into the workshop by telling her that her husband had fallen ill and she needed he needed help Upon arriving, he shot her as well. And Hay stuffed their bodies into acid drums, then forged a letter with their signatures and sold almost all of their possessions for another 8,000 pounds, which is about 500,000 US dollars in today's currency.
00:55:12
Speaker
Wow. John sold everything but their car and their dog, which he decided to keep for himself. Like how rude, that poor dog Maybe he took good care of the dog.
00:55:24
Speaker
I know, but that's so sad. You killed its parents. I know. So around 1949, John was living in London. He was living in the Onslaught Court Hotel, which sounded like fancy digs to me, especially for the time.
00:55:38
Speaker
He was one of the very few young bachelors living there. And most of the long term residents were older, wealthy women, some widows. o So John set his sights on one older widow in particular, Olive Durand Deacon, age 69. Nice.
00:55:55
Speaker
He overheard Olive mention that she had the an idea for fake fingernails that she thought would really take off. So John, being the helpful guy that he was, mentioned that he was an engineer and that his company was very interested in her business and asked her to join him at his workshop to go over the prototypes for the business venture.
00:56:14
Speaker
On February 18th, 1949, Olive met John at the front desk of the hotel and they drove to the workshop together in his car to go over business ideas. Don't do it. Upon arrival, he shot her with the same gun he used on the Hendersons, took off all of her valuables and put her in an acid bath.
00:56:32
Speaker
Two days later, her friend Constance reported her missing. Now, John was seen with Olive pretty publicly before her death. So investigators began to look into his background.
00:56:43
Speaker
They found that John had a record of theft and fraud, which gave them a reason to search his workshop. While there, they found a dry cleaner's receipt for Olive Duran Deacon's one-of-a-kind Persian lamb coat.
00:56:56
Speaker
They had also found a pile of trash behind the property. Okay, warning. This is about to get really graphic and really gross. Okay.
00:57:07
Speaker
Okay. You've been warned. Please fast forward if you are squeamish. I can't. Fast forward through your life. So I mentioned earlier that at the Gloucester Drive workshop, he had a sewer drain in the floor where he could dump the remains, right? ah So he dumped them and they would be gone. Well, he didn't have a floor drain in the new workshop.
00:57:28
Speaker
So he would just dump the contents of the acid drums in a pile of trash behind the property. So in this pile of sludge, we'll call it, they found 28 pounds of human body fat,
00:57:42
Speaker
a partial human foot, pieces of a pelvic bone, two discs from the lower spine, human gallstones, and a piece of a denture, which turned out to be olives.
00:57:53
Speaker
Oh. ah It's just so vile. It was, I don't know why the fat and the gallstones got me more than the bones.
00:58:04
Speaker
Well, yeah, because you think about bones, but you don't think about the other remains that might survive something like that. It's just, ugh. Like, that doesn't survive a cremation. Well, I mean, I don't know if gallstones might, I don't know, but.
00:58:16
Speaker
Ugh. So... All of this was, of course, more than enough to arrest him for, even before they knew who the body parts belonged to. So during questioning, John Hay asked the detective, quote, tell me, frankly, what are the chances of anybody being released from Broadmoor? End quote.
00:58:35
Speaker
Yes, your face. This was a high security psychiatric hospital at the time. It's come up in two other cases that we've discussed. And it's funny, like, I don't even know until like later on.
00:58:47
Speaker
um It seemed some really good action, I guess. Yeah. Anyways, to this question, the detective responded that he couldn't discuss that, to which John replied, quote, well, if I told you the truth, you would not believe me.
00:59:01
Speaker
It sounds too fantastic to believe, end quote. And then he confessed to killing Duran Deacon, the McSwans, the Hendersons, and three other people that were never confirmed.
00:59:11
Speaker
Oh, wow. So the story of our dear friend John doesn't end there. He pled insanity, claimed that his main motivation for the murders was his thirst for blood. He stated he would nick their necks and fill a glass or two with their blood to quench his thirst.
00:59:26
Speaker
yeah He also claimed he had blood filled dreams as a child. a prominent one described in this quote, which I think is fantastic because I didn't know you were doing anything about dreams.
00:59:36
Speaker
Quote, I saw before me a forest of crucifixes, which gradually turned into trees. At first there appeared to be dew or rain dripping from the branches.
00:59:47
Speaker
But as I approached, I realized it was blood. The whole forest began to writhe and the trees dark and erect to ooze blood. A man went from each tree catching the blood.
00:59:59
Speaker
When the cup was full, he approached me. Drink, he said, but I was unable to move. or End quote. Yeah, I love the the the tie-in without us realizing. And he's lay off the Benadryl.
01:00:12
Speaker
So John's defense called forward witnesses to speak to his mental state with one of them quoted as saying, quote, the absolute callous, cheerful, bland, and almost the friendly indifference of the accused to crimes, which he freely admits to having committed is unique in my experience. End quote.
01:00:31
Speaker
So ultimately for John, he was sorely mistaken in his confidence of his defense as he believed they wouldn't be able to convict him of murder because they didn't have bodies. Regardless of the insanity plea and lack of a body, the jury deliberated only for a few minutes before finding him guilty and sentence and sentenced him to death by hanging on August 10th, 1949.
01:00:51
Speaker
nineteen forty nine Wow. Yes. yeah So some fun facts for this case. It has a lot of references in the media. The 1949 British film Obsession was delayed by the British Censor Board due to the similarities of the plot in the case.
01:01:07
Speaker
um And it was, you know, right during the time of ah his case so they were like you you can't release this movie until he's been convicted because it could but they did get to release later and then there's a TV drama A is for Acid it was specifically about this case I started watching it honestly it was really good but I do like those kinds of movies it's just like very I don't know it was good i just haven't gotten a chance to finish it The Museum of London has an exhibition where they have some of the items from John Hay on display. They have his gloves, apron, gun that he used on his victims, as well as all those gallstones and her denture on display.
01:01:47
Speaker
What the fuck? I know, it's so rude. um Lastly... There are more than 100 personal letters that he wrote, some about his crimes that are kept at Cambridge University's Institute of Criminology, which I hate love.
01:02:02
Speaker
ah Professor Frederick Loshel, a director at the university, wrote, There is little evidence that Hay understood the emotional impact of what he had done, leading some historians to question if he had signs of psychopathy.
01:02:16
Speaker
Professor Losel says of John Hay's writings, quote, it is as if he hears the tone, but does not understand the music. End quote.
01:02:27
Speaker
Something about that statement just gave me the chills because it's it's so perfectly describes like when you meet someone and you're like, there's just something off about that person, you know? And that's, that's what it very much felt like.
01:02:43
Speaker
Yeah. That's the story of John Hay, the acid bath filler. That's grotesque. Yeah. And just to think of like, gosh, all of the murders that must've happened during that time, like when,
01:02:56
Speaker
There were just sewer drains in their basement and they could just dump whatever they wanted to. And like, he really probably wouldn't have gotten caught if it hadn't been for those sleeping kids.
01:03:15
Speaker
Have you ever seen a ghost? I don't know. i don't know if they're ghosts. I'd rather, I'd rather next that question. i don't want to, i don't want to talk about that. Did you go to prom? no i didn't it was a very sore subject i did not go to prom the ah person i was supposed to go to prom with um broke up with me right before prom and went with the person he'd been cheating on me with did you have a dress what would you want your prom dress to be if you could make if you could go to prom now in a not shitty situation
01:03:48
Speaker
i probably would have worn my sweet 16 dress which was it was purple and blue and it had tulle and it had glass beads it was really it was pretty it was it was poofy cool what's the most embarrassing song in your repertoire right now oh god which song isn't embarrassing let me look because i do have my favorites it's like describe embarrassing i mean A lot of the 90s music I have on here.
01:04:16
Speaker
Yeah. um I don't know if it's embarrassing, but like, i'm I am very easily embarrassed. So... you You feel embarrassed what other people think might think.
01:04:28
Speaker
A hundred percent. Yeah. yeah Maybe the offspring or the used. I mean, any of my emo music. You know what? i don't know if this is like really embarrassing, but there is this song that I really love.
01:04:44
Speaker
um And it's, i It's embarrassing to me because I did come out of my shell and tell some co-workers back in the day that this was my like one of my because of my song that I vibed with and they all looked at me like I was a absolute psychopath because it just was not their vibe.
01:05:02
Speaker
um It's called I'm Not Angry Anymore by Cummers. C-U-M-M-R-S. um It's just kind of weird, but it'ss it's very much me. It's like, nope, and i'm just I'm just not going to be mad anymore.
01:05:17
Speaker
If you were a fruit, what would you be and why? Ooh, I would be, ooh, that's a hard one. if That was a fruit. I think I would, I keep going back to apples. Like they're very basic, but there's so many different, like on the outside, they all look the same.
01:05:34
Speaker
But if you get real close, like they all smell very different. Like ah everything from like the, the peel can make it different. Like the way they're grown, like there's so many different varieties.
01:05:46
Speaker
So like they, they all look the same. They all look like they should taste the same, but like when you really, really dig into past the surface, like there's more to them. I love that answer from both a plant standpoint and a you standpoint. I just adore that. Onions have layers.
01:06:05
Speaker
That too, but you said apple. Yeah. I'm not angry anymore. Well, sometimes I am. I don't think badly of you. Well, sometimes I do.
01:06:17
Speaker
When you were a kid, do do was there a stuffed animal or a toy that you gave a name to that you remember still? I'm sure there was. But nothing that stuck. No, nothing stuck.
01:06:30
Speaker
Sorry. Aces was Tic Tac and now Sebastian has him. The actual Tic Tac? it's the It's a little orange dinosaur, and he named him Tic Tac, which is funny because then Sebastian got a dinosaur named Terry Tops, but he also carries around Ace's old Tic Tac.
01:06:47
Speaker
um It's really cute. He got some great New York boobs. New York boobs? What makes them New York boobs? I don't know. It's from What We Do in the Shadows. Oh. It's got great New York boobs.
01:06:59
Speaker
I can't do the accent. The Laszlo. Ace can't. Yes. a Ace is Laszlo. Would you rather have hands for feet or feet for hands?
01:07:10
Speaker
Hands for feet. Why? Because I can already do stuff with my feet and it'd be better if I could have more hands and do more things with my feet. Nice. I've always wanted to write with my my toes just because I think it's funny and it looks cool.
01:07:27
Speaker
But I can't. Have you practiced? I've tried. You've tried? I mean, I used to a lot, like try a lot more when I was younger. I'm definitely not anywhere near that dexterous anymore. I used to able to put my whole leg, actually both legs behind my head and just like pick myself up and walk around on my arms. But I can't do that anymore. Are you telling you can't lots of time in your totally never busy days to practice writing with your feet?
01:07:50
Speaker
I just rather be a good influence for my child and not use my toes for poetry. like well do you have any nightmare fuel i feel like the a is for acid definitely needs to be there like it's a great it it gets the vibe out there which i really liked I don't really have anything specific. If you want to hear, mean, yeah, I guess if you want to hear a lot of ah stories from people who've had some chronic sleep paralysis, the nightmare is a documentary and I'll link the correct one because there are several IMDB, but I think it was like 2015 and I think it's on prime, but I'll cut that out if I'm wrong.
01:08:32
Speaker
Go in check out Nim's Nightmares, and can see a little bit more of us there if you want. And if not, just keep listening.
01:08:43
Speaker
Yeah. I'm sorry this one was long, but I hope you stuck with it because you know what? We're worth it. You're worth it too. Sweet dreams. If you have topic requests, book or movie recommendations, or just want to say hi, email us at nightmarecottage at gmail.com or visit our website at nightmarecottage.com.
01:09:02
Speaker
Sweet dreams.
01:09:06
Speaker
when