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Episode 31 - Witches and Theodore Coneys
17 Plays11 days ago
Happy Halloween!! And Happy Anniversary to the Cottage! The girls celebrate a year around the sun telling spooky stories.
Today, Nym looks at some witches from American folklore and Nylene shares the terrifying tale of Theodore Coneys, the Denver Spiderman.
Enter the Nightmare for show notes, sources, transcripts, and more!
Music by Nine Inch Nails
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Transcript
Podcast Anniversary Celebration
00:00:29
Speaker
Welcome to Nim and Nyleen's Nightmare Cottage, where we explore history, mysteries, and other tales of the macabre. I'm Nim. And I'm Nyleen. Let the nightmare begin.
00:00:49
Speaker
So I if you dare
00:00:55
Speaker
so i was noticing, this obviously isn't airing on the one year anniversary, but we we, our first episode launched on October 13th.
00:01:06
Speaker
And today, the day we are recording is October 13th. Yeah, happy anniversary! Happy anniversary, that's so cool. We stuck with it for a whole year, guys. We did. That's a year's worth of stories. and Yeah.
00:01:19
Speaker
You putting up with me and me putting up with you. and you guys, I'm seeing how quickly never turns into always for me.
00:01:29
Speaker
Oh,
Overcoming Technical Challenges
00:01:30
Speaker
yes, yes. you yeah So we did just add stuff so far, just our episodes with no video or anything like that to YouTube. All the episodes will be available on YouTube by the time this airs. yeah Yeah, no. So we just loaded everything on. And that was quite a chore because I am technologically challenged.
00:01:49
Speaker
I know I'm in the right industry. Just kidding, because this is for fun. So I think you're doing brilliantly. But anyways, as you did that, you were spot checking to make sure it came up right. And you found yeah in the first when you said it was like two minutes into the second
Pet Ownership and Fate
00:02:03
Speaker
episode. Yeah. So the first episode I mentioned the whole I will never do any kind of like home invasion or like anything to do with sexual assault or like anything to do with kids.
00:02:18
Speaker
Episode one, I said that. And then as we've seen, that apparently changed really quickly. i don't know what happened. And then episode two about three minutes in I said I would never get a cat.
00:02:35
Speaker
I definitely now have a cat. And that is not my fault. Okay. The universe chose me The cat distribution system chose you. It's a center. And see, i know that sushi did that. Not sushi. The distribution system chose us that time because actually like Ace found a kitten outside of our house the other day. It literally walked into our garage.
00:02:59
Speaker
He opened the garage to like put the car in from like getting home from work. And this cat just walks in and the little kitten just walks into the garage. they are just sitting there and he pulls out ah little ah thing a thing of wet food and he, you know, shows it to the cat. He's petting the cat. He's picking it up. Little kitten, whatever. Takes a picture of it.
00:03:23
Speaker
Puts down the wet food. She starts eating a little bit of it. All good.
Feral Cats and TNR Program
00:03:30
Speaker
He goes inside for a minute. He comes back out. The cat is across the street with the neighbors getting pet and the food has not been eaten.
00:03:37
Speaker
So for anyone that has a cat, you know, doesn't matter what it is. What food is like. What food is king. Is king. but So that cat distribution system, it wasn't our turn.
00:03:51
Speaker
yeah no yeah i have a neighborhood full of feral cats and i don't know i feed them i do put out food for them but i don't they're fair like they have a whole ecosystem out there we are gonna do um the trap neuter release or chi trap spay release for mama kitten that keep her she's she's practically a kitten herself and she keeps having babies that don't make it and So we're going to try and go get her fixed.
00:04:19
Speaker
But they all belong outside. They're all outdoor kitties. I can't count the cat distribution system to work with them for me. Grandma's not ready for a sibling until it's just right.
00:04:31
Speaker
yeah no they just happen upon you yeah so yeah like so far oh yeah and the third thing that oh yeah i would never get a big dog you said that on the yes i said that on the podcast that i would never get a big dog and then literally i just showed up with a massive dog but yeah so putting these on youtube has been fine just listening to them again so yeah feel free to listen i don't know there if it's easier for you But you're also welcome to start with the later episodes. Yes. oh
00:05:02
Speaker
The content is sound, but we are still finding our voice in those early days. Yes. We're still getting there. Always a journey.
Halloween Traditions
00:05:14
Speaker
So how have you been this week? I don't know how much we've talked about all that jazz. You've been doing anything fun? This will come out right before Halloween, but as we mentioned, we recorded before.
00:05:26
Speaker
um It took me way longer than I usually do, but we decorated for Halloween this weekend. yay! Like the outside. then So we always have, literally always, year-round, have skeletons that live both in the front yard and in the backyard. Yes, it's hilarious. Like, they they always live there. So we're technically always decorated for Halloween by, you know, normal standards. by default. default.
00:05:46
Speaker
By default. But now the yard is covered with every skeleton I own. that's not true because there's still several in the backyard. There are several skeletons in the front yard in various poses.
00:05:58
Speaker
i will say she never puts her skeletons in the closet. They live in the garage. They have hooks. That's what I mean. You have no skeletons in your closet. I mean, that's actually painfully true on so many different levels. Exactly. Because I'm the vanilla. yeah All of all of my my rough edges are visible for everybody to see.
00:06:20
Speaker
Neither do I. But that's because I overshare. That's a whole other problem. Is that a problem? i don't think that's a problem. um So yeah, so I did that actually put the trick or treat bags together this time. Oh, nice.
00:06:32
Speaker
And played some spooky games, watched some spooky movies. Nice. I'm sorry if you hear squeaking in the background. We have as usual.
00:06:43
Speaker
the The nightmare menagerie is left unsupervised. Yes. And for Fern, that is very dangerous, but we'll see what happens. That's what makes it spooky. Like, no, she tore up Basha's inflatable pool the other day that we've been using because, like, after swim class, he wants to get in inflatable pool.
00:07:05
Speaker
Like, he's just he just wants to have fun. How he react when he realized he could not? Yeah. I don't know if I've told him yet. I think we just hid it from him and told him we put it away. And then I don't know what we're going to do. We'll see what happens.
00:07:20
Speaker
Just because that one was my bad. Like usually whenever it's like his toys and it happens, I'm like, see, this is why we can't leave our toys on the floor. If I did that, he would 100% be like, see, mommy, that's why we have to put things away because that's what he does.
00:07:34
Speaker
hu Yeah. Yeah. Because he's yours. Okay. Well, okay. Okay.
Witches in American Folklore
00:07:41
Speaker
But yeah, speaking of his pole and his classes. So it was so funny because I went to take him to swim class the other day.
00:07:48
Speaker
and I think I mentioned in one of the episodes that like, I think it was maybe episode. Yeah, it was one of the episodes. I mentioned that like, I had a really big fear of open water. Like because like, or or even like deep pools, because like, I'm always scared of that Jaws thing a shark. And you were like, even in the pool. Yeah. And then you laughed.
00:08:09
Speaker
And then it was funny because he was doing his swim lesson. And keep in mind, it's like a survival class. So they're like dunking him underwater he's like learning how to like float. and Right.
00:08:21
Speaker
So as he's doing this and going back and forth, back and forth, there's I see something just kind of bobbing in the water from the deep end and coming over to the like shallow end where he's at.
00:08:34
Speaker
And it's this little shark toy that eventually makes it all the way over there. But he's so small that it's like half his size. Right. And it's just bobbing in the water over there. And then I'm laughing like a maniacal crazy person.
00:08:50
Speaker
Because to me, this is the most hilarious thing ever that like, there is literally a shark in this pool. And I tried to take a picture of it. But then there's kids in the pool. And I don't want to like, you know, be but be that guy. Yeah, be that guy.
00:09:03
Speaker
But I just found that it's so tickled by it. It just it made me laugh so hard. Was he scared? Was it okay? No, it was okay. It was funny because it just made me think of that.
00:09:14
Speaker
Speaking of the maniacal laughter. So like he's had his like, think this is the second birthday party he's ever been to. um But he started to get invited a lot of birthday parties. And so we took him.
00:09:25
Speaker
to this birthday party and i i i have really bad social anxiety. i I'm not good. don't know. I'm not good at conversation. Small talk.
00:09:37
Speaker
Small talk. I'm not good at small talk. Yes. And I overshare. So that is a problem. That is actually part of why I don't like talking to people because i either I'm either too close off or I give you everything. And there's very little in between. Yes.
00:09:54
Speaker
So I get that. I i definitely get that. So there was that. And then, of course, there's also me and my really loud laugh that is just crazy.
00:10:04
Speaker
And I just have the craziest laugh. And when new people hear it, they always get this really shocked look because I don't do it on purpose. Like, I just I laugh very loudly. i have a very boisterous laugh. And it's so funny just to see like the way like new people are like, oh, God, like it's one of those like, oh, yeah.
00:10:27
Speaker
Yeah. I snort laugh sometimes. i hate that. If it catches me unaware. And it happens in public way more than I'd like it to. I wish it was just a snort, though. For me, it's that like weird, like...
00:10:42
Speaker
You know what I mean? the from I don't know if you were too old for Hey Arnold, but Arnold. I'm aware of Hey Arnold, but it wasn't in my repertoire. Yeah. They had this um character that would always like end up behind Helga and he would like be breathing behind her shoulder like.
00:11:02
Speaker
And that's what I think of every time that I get caught laughing like like in that like snort laugh. See, overshare, guys. Like, this is what I'm talking about.
00:11:20
Speaker
So this is coming out right before Halloween. Yes. Hope everybody's feeling spooky. I really kind of wanted to try to do something kind of Halloween related, but then I realized that everything we do is spooky. I know. That's what you know. So it was like, I mean, really kind of anything. So y'all know I love folklore. Yes. You know I love witches. Yes.
00:11:39
Speaker
Today we're going to look at just a few of many witches, this time from American folklore and history. So, like, are these all real witches? These are... Two of these are real confirmed people. Okay.
00:11:52
Speaker
One of them, the jury is out. Okay. We will discuss that as we go. All right. I don't know if this was like a Baba Yaga situation. It's not. So, um I will say that... So, it's not like that. No, these are all... Well...
00:12:06
Speaker
So America is much, much younger. Yes. So the roots are not quite as deep. I always forget that. Yeah. Yeah. So the Baba Yaga stuff goes back centuries and centuries and centuries. And our country does not. So yeah so everything here is definitely in and based on our American history, as it were.
00:12:25
Speaker
And yeah you'll you'll see as we get there. Okay.
Legend of the Witch of Yazoo City
00:12:29
Speaker
First off, are you familiar with The Witch of Yazoo City? sounds like something from Fallout. I can see where you would say that.
00:12:38
Speaker
So I found several slight variations of the legend, but I'm going to kind of weave it together for you with the most common threads. Once upon a time, there was a mysterious old woman who lived deep down the Yazoo River swamp.
00:12:51
Speaker
And because she was independent and kept to herself, obviously witch. Townsfolk claimed she would lure fishing boats to her shore, poisoning fishermen and burying them behind her house.
00:13:03
Speaker
They rabble-rabbled until the sheriff agreed to take her down. On May 25th, 1884, he took his deputies and headed out to the swamps. When the woman spied the approaching mob, she fled.
00:13:15
Speaker
They chased her through the swamps until she got stuck in quicksand, because of course she did, and she sank to her doom. She shrieked her curse, in 20 years I will return and burn this place to the ground. Wait, she shrieked underwater?
00:13:28
Speaker
As she was slowly going down in the quicksand, no she she cursed the town. Okay. So it's a bit unclear as I read a few different accounts, but one of the main stories say that at this point they, I guess, extracted her from the quicksand. It doesn't, I i didn't see anything about how they got her out.
00:13:44
Speaker
And then they put her in the cemetery and marked it with a stone that said TW, which like nobody knows what that's for. Maybe the witch. I don't know. I know. And then they placed chains around it, like big, heavy chain, linked chains.
00:13:56
Speaker
What? 20 years later, On May 25th, 1904, a massive fire incinerated the majority of Yazoo City. Oh. Over 300 structures were burned to the ground. Wait, but I thought it was like a swamp.
00:14:10
Speaker
It was 1904. Can swamps burn Isn't there too much water? Well, I mean, like there's, yeah, but the buildings were not in the swamps, but there were swamps around the area. Got it. Yeah. Okay.
00:14:20
Speaker
It was also 1904, so everything was basically made of kindling and dreams. Yeah. So this combined with high winds, it left little hope for the town. When the townspeople went to check on her grave, they found that the chains had snapped.
00:14:32
Speaker
So this story and similar versions of it have passed from generation to generation in Yazoo City, and it was cemented into the city's folklore. Local Willie Morris published his book, Good Old Boy, which is an almost Southern Gothic Goonies, from what I can tell, about his adventures with his friends and in his childhood in Yazoo City.
00:14:49
Speaker
So the woman's story was only a small part of the tale, but it extended the legend into a larger audience. Historians and folklore scholars have tried to trace the legend back further, but so far they've come up dry.
00:15:00
Speaker
no newspaper articles from 1904 mention a witch. no Yeah, I feel like that'd be like an odd thing to mention. And like I mean, I guess not. I feel like they had like serious sections and not quite so serious sections. There's small towns nearby. i mean, they were affected. And I'm going to, I think, mention it here in a minute. But like...
00:15:18
Speaker
the insurance claims and stuff. of I'm so sorry if you guys hear any of this stuff in the background. These dogs are so unhappy that we are talking about witches in here. So they just want to be part of the conversation.
00:15:35
Speaker
I can let them in, but you're just going to get Fern fucking up the microphone. Yeah. Oh, that's right. That's right. Yes. I remember now.
00:15:44
Speaker
Well, they're fine. um They really are. I literally just gave them treats. They're just mad they're not in here. But yeah, none of the small towns mentioned any, any, anything about it. um The cemetery's own burial records don't have a match for TW.
00:16:01
Speaker
There isn't even a Wikipedia article for it, ah which there's wiki articles for tons of urban legends. Like, yeah. So I was actually surprised that there wasn't at least like a mention of it, but even on the town's Wikipedia page,
00:16:12
Speaker
no mention of the witch. That's crazy. Right. Well, I mean, I guess they maybe they don't want the tourism for that or they wouldn't want to be known for that. Especially like think about, you know, certain areas depending on how religious the area is.
00:16:25
Speaker
They are definitely leaning on the tourism now. Oh, okay. Fair enough. I don't know. But the Wikipedia page for the town says that a young boy playing with na with matches started the fire and barely even acknowledges the witch.
00:16:37
Speaker
Oh, I think it did. it I think it said something along the lines of it's been attributed to a local legend of a witch or something like that. I don't know. I don't usually use Wikipedia. I was just checking to see if it existed. Yeah. So anyways, so did Morris invent the legend wholesale?
00:16:50
Speaker
Possibly. Or he was passing on a local oral tradition that hadn't been written down. Either way, the telling made the story real in a way that mattered most. People believed it. And once a legend enters the bloodstream of the community, it doesn't really matter where it started. Truth becomes slippery. Yeah. Like quicksand.
00:17:06
Speaker
Mm hmm. 1904, the fire did actually happen. There's tangible evidence, newspaper articles, insurance claims and everything to indicate that a massive, horrible fire nearly completely wiped out the town. Yeah, but i would it would really surprise me even back in the nineteen hundreds that they would put something like that in print besides like being related to like something religious saying, you know, the cult we think the culprit was a witch, you know, like especially like for the police.
00:17:32
Speaker
I guess. I don't know. But there's like there's no um like contemporary like um like journal things. There's no other mention of it anywhere in any documents at any point before this guy's book. So maybe she didn't exist.
00:17:49
Speaker
You know me. yeah I'm going lean in that direction because i don't know. But legend has Legend has
00:17:58
Speaker
The main articles I found were about the fire insurance that I'd mentioned. The insurance companies being hit really hard financially. And then prominently, I saw articles about how the town had been in the process of upgrading its fire preparedness with better water flow and such. But like It was still in progress at the time.
00:18:14
Speaker
The infrastructure to handle that fast catching fire just wasn't in place. And nearby towns and counties were taking notice and recognizing the importance of prioritizing that. So that was like the big civil conversation was like, how do we not lose our entire town? Because, i mean, again, 1904, we're, you know, we're we're coming into our own, right? We're, we're, yeah.
00:18:31
Speaker
So they're probably at this point because of this thinking, rethinking building structures or what they're building their stuff around or. Right. Community infrastructure. Yeah. Really. Yeah. Which is a nightmare in its own.
00:18:42
Speaker
Yeah. So I didn't find a word about a witch or a curse. and But it seems like that kind of sensationalist reporting pops up somewhere. Usually yeah the Belganess stuff and the bloody vendors like that. I found sinister sounding articles about them.
00:18:55
Speaker
So I don't know. It seems the fire had natural, if tragic, causes. But when disaster strikes a small, tight-knit community, explanations aren't always enough. yeah We crave meaning. We want something to blame. Yes.
00:19:06
Speaker
Enter the witch. Who have we angered? So back at the cemetery, the supposed witch's grave still sits beneath the chains. So wait, is there like, is there physically a grave there with chains that we can see it? There is. Yeah.
00:19:20
Speaker
um A new stone has actually been placed on the plot. The old stones lost the time. Okay, wait, hold on. I'm just going to like rewind here because maybe I misunderstood something. So there is a physical grave there with chains on it.
00:19:33
Speaker
And there is something like basically saying like, here lies this witch. Yeah. who really fucked some shit up. I actually was about to read you the thing that was on the stone.
00:19:44
Speaker
Okay. Well, that's what I'm saying. Like, so... There is an existence of her as a person being a witch, just not that she might have been tied to this crime because she's technically dead. So that would be crazy.
00:19:56
Speaker
Not necessarily. Okay. So that original stone that said TW, there is no record of anybody being buried there. There's no birth date. There's no epitaph. There's no asterisk saying not actually a witch, probably.
00:20:08
Speaker
It's not actually witch. Yeah. So there there was nothing... for sure there the new stone that got put up um says according to local legend on may 25th 1904 the witch of yazoo city broke out of these curious chain links surrounding her grave and burned down yazoo city writer willie morris's classic good old boy brought national renown to this vengeful woman in her shameful deed it'd be really funny if he just put that grave there just to like sell his books Shortly after the stone was put up, it fell and cracked down the middle. And the broken stone is still there today.
00:20:42
Speaker
there's a......somewhere. course. There it is. Yeah. Cool. But yeah, here's the thing. His own personal gravestone is just a few yards away from hers. Or from from that one.
00:20:56
Speaker
And they're sure there's no body down there? Well, so... Getting there. So when when you ask the locals. No, it's okay. when When you ask the locals who's actually buried there, you get a variety of responses.
00:21:07
Speaker
Some say the grave is empty. Others say it belongs to a woman named Tandy Warren. um I saw that on a couple of blog posts, but I didn't find like any like records or anything like that um to back that up. Still others think that the grave's real purpose was simply lost in time. It now belongs to the story more than it does to history. Yeah.
00:21:27
Speaker
In 2015, the chains were stolen and there was local outrage, not over the vandalism, but over what might happen if the chains weren't replaced, which they promptly were. In 2023, local group petitioned to excavate the grave to determine once and for all who was buried there.
00:21:42
Speaker
The Yazoo Historical Society said no. Disturbing graves, even potentially empty ones, is serious business, which is right. Plus, let's be honest, no one wants to be the person who unchains the witch. No, but they could do that stuff that's like, what is it? Like, it's like the sonar thing that like you go and like yeah do it over the ground and it's supposed to do like a 3D of what's underneath. Yeah, yeah.
00:22:05
Speaker
It could do that to at least see if there's a body down there. That's good point. I might look and see if anybody's trying to do that or if they prevent people from doing it. But whether or not anyone is under that soil, the grave has become a symbol and symbols carry more weight than bones.
00:22:17
Speaker
The South in particular is rich in Gothic folklore, tales of restless spirits, haunted swamps, and long-held secrets buried under moss and memory. The Witch of Yazoo fits just perfectly into this tradition.
00:22:29
Speaker
In stories like these, witches are often more than just villains. They're stand-ins for outsiders, for women who don't conform, for communal guilt, or unresolved trauma. Maybe Yazoo City needed a scapegoat.
00:22:39
Speaker
Maybe the town couldn't bear the randomness of destruction. So they gave the fire a face, a name, and a grave. That's one of the real powers of folklore. It helps us make sense of chaos.
00:22:50
Speaker
It offers neat explanations where reality provides none. But folklore also distorts. It smooths the edges of the truth. It replaces facts with fables. Over time, it can overwrite real people and real events, which is really worth recognizing.
00:23:05
Speaker
ye The chains on the grave are an interesting bit. Are they meant to keep her in Are they symbolic of justice or superstition? Or maybe they're just really good at attracting tourists. ah You can book a tour at Yazoo City today that takes you right to the grave.
00:23:20
Speaker
Costume tour guides will tell you the story, point out the stone, and maybe even wink as they mention the curse. There's a plaque. There's merch. It's part of the Yazoo experience. Nice. ah The legend has become kind of a community bonding ritual.
00:23:33
Speaker
Kids grow up with the story. Families visit the grave on weekends. People argue passionately over whether or not it's real. I figure it's very similar to like Mothman territory. Right. Oh, yeah. You embrace it because that's like your town's, you know, personality. its flavor, you know.
00:23:48
Speaker
The town in some small way belongs to the witch now. Not because she burned it down, but because her story gave it something unforgettable in return. And as for the grave, it's still chained. Nice.
Grace Sherwood: The Witch of Pungo
00:24:00
Speaker
Now, let's meet the Witch of Pungo. Bungle. Grace Sherwood was a woman in Virginia in the late 1600s. Real person. no We know for sure she was a real person.
00:24:11
Speaker
But because of you know being a female in the late 1600s, she was predisposed to be a candidate for witchcraft. She and her husband had some disputes with neighbors over the years. So when her husband died in 1701, the neighbors formally targeted her with an official witchcraft accusation. What?
00:24:27
Speaker
She was inspected by a jury of women and found to have moles on her genitals. Oh my God. She was then sentenced to ducking, which I did not realize was actually a term used for the water test for witches, which makes Money Python even more brilliant than I thought. Yes. I didn't know that was a real thing either. Yeah. I had to look it up. like, is that actually what they called the water test? And I don't know.
00:24:47
Speaker
the nebulous they how many of they did but that was what they called it in new england in the 1600s anyways this is a process of tying her thumb to her big toe and throwing her into the lake if she gets free and floats or swims a witch If she drowns, she drowns pure and will be accepted by God or whatever.
00:25:07
Speaker
That's just... But she died! What? I never understood the logic of these witch cases. Yeah, that's because there's not any.
00:25:18
Speaker
So Grace, the only person in Virginia history to be sentenced to endure this particular brand of bullshit, oh got free and swam to safety. For this act of sin, she spent seven years in jail. She went on to live to be 80 years old Listen, if I just spent seven years in jail and I am not free, then I'm probably not a fucking witch. Just saying.
00:25:41
Speaker
Or not a powerful one that you should be worried about anyways. And there's a statue of her. but a little bit. Is that a raccoon? I think so. Yes. Yeah. But that's that. Just being accused of being a witch.
00:25:52
Speaker
It's ridiculous. Anyways. So now, are you familiar with the Witch of Monroe?
Hannah Heavy's Witchcraft Rumors
00:25:58
Speaker
No. Okay. This is the last one. It sounds like a poem. Yeah. Yeah, this is the last one, but I think it's my favorite of the three. Hannah Heavy was not associated with witchcraft until her husband died in what many said were suspicious circumstances.
00:26:12
Speaker
He had... Was he an abusive piece of shit? Um, no. I mean, well, not not mentioned, but maybe. Just in this case, as I've been noticing a pattern. Sorry. Anyways. He had fallen off of a cliffside.
00:26:25
Speaker
Oh, people found it suspicious because he knew the area super well. And it seemed unlikely that he would fall off the cliff unless bewitched by his wife to do so. Okay. So this was puritanical Connecticut in the early eighteen hundreds New England, even over a century after the Salem witch trials, is still deeply embarrassed by the outcome of those trials.
00:26:43
Speaker
So women suspected of witchcraft were generally left to their own devices, even if they were shit-talked in town. So Hannah used this to her advantage. When her husband died, she was left without a steady income.
00:26:55
Speaker
She would request food and firewood from her neighbors and threaten them with hexes if they were used. it There are a few specific instances that have survived through time. Once, wandering by a neighbor's window, she saw the woman inside baking several pies.
00:27:09
Speaker
Hannah asked for one, but was refused. Every pie the woman made from that day forward was bland and burnt.
00:27:17
Speaker
Hannah was said to have kept several chickens, with one, Boreas, being her familiar. When Boreas died, she said she would be following him soon. Aww. She made her death wishes very clear.
00:27:28
Speaker
She wanted to be carried by hand from her home to her grave, and she wanted to be buried after sunset. She did pass soon, but her wishes were ignored. The weather was rough and there was a good depth of snow at the time.
00:27:40
Speaker
It would have been easier to transport her to the burying point by horse and sled. Her coffin kept sliding off the sled as they tried to move her. This continued to happen over and over until they had to submit to carrying her by hand.
00:27:52
Speaker
By the time they got her to the gravesite, it was after sunset. oh When they returned to her home after the burial, they found it had burned to the ground. What? and then that's No. That's her gravestone. She had to have paid some money to do that.
00:28:05
Speaker
Man, wouldn't that be awesome? ah Fucking legend. Yes. that was That was good. I like that. So was she a real person? Yeah. She was a real person. That's cool.
00:28:16
Speaker
What a bad bitch. in the spirit of Halloween, I figured I'd research something that really scares me.
00:28:29
Speaker
Face my fears in a way.
Theodore Conies and Frogging
00:28:31
Speaker
Talking to people. Okay. Okay. Am I wrong? I see a year anniversary hasn't made you any less of a bitch.
00:28:46
Speaker
Anyways. No, we're going to talk about a home invasion of sorts. Ah, okay. Have you heard of the term frogging? Like in crochet? Like if you have to pull out Your crochet, it makes the ribbit sound. So they call it frogging.
00:29:03
Speaker
What? I've never heard this. Yeah. That's the, you ask. I know two of our listeners are avid crocheters. Oh, so they'll, maybe they can write in and tell you about that.
00:29:16
Speaker
Nightmare cottage at gmail.com. Thank you. Okay, well, frogging is apparently that, but that's not what we're talking about today. Frogging is basically living in someone's home while they're also living there.
00:29:30
Speaker
It's not like squatting. It's more like hiding in their attic or their spare room and them not knowing that you're there. So there's a really crazy movie called I See You.
00:29:41
Speaker
um it came out in 2019. It's a horrifying visual example of this if you need nightmare fuel. Great. Yeah. So, sorry, there are sirens right now and the dogs have decided.
00:29:53
Speaker
It's a symphony of chaos here at the cottage. On this, the anniversary our birth.
00:30:04
Speaker
Yes. Okay.
00:30:11
Speaker
So our story begins with Theodore Conies. He was born in Illinois in 1882, but spent most of his early childhood in Colorado. As a child, he was diagnosed with a respiratory disease and heart problems that doctors said he probably wouldn't survive. Yeah.
00:30:27
Speaker
Basically, he wasn't supposed to have made it to 18. So his family decided he didn't need to finish school or learn a trade or learn how to care for himself. Again, this is the early nineteen hundreds So it's really hard to come back from that.
00:30:39
Speaker
Yeah. and They seem to have the mentality of like, he's going to die. So why bother? That's so bad. Yes. So he became a full time drifter by the age of 18, living the hobo lifestyle of the 1900s, especially after his mom passed away. He was just kind of.
00:30:55
Speaker
left to his own devices. He did take odd jobs here and there to try to make ends meet, but his lack of preparation for adulthood and his sickly appearance made keeping a job really difficult. Yeah, bet.
00:31:06
Speaker
With the Great Depression of the 1930s rolling in, Theodore just fell really deep into the unhoused lifestyle. So in 1941, Theodore's travels brought him back to his hometown of Denver, Colorado.
00:31:19
Speaker
he decided to track down an old friend, Philip Peters, to try and get some money off of him and continue on his way. Theodore had met Philip around 1899, working at a railroad office.
00:31:32
Speaker
It's unclear if they were both working there or just Philip showing kindness to a young homeless kid. So Theodore, now in his 50s, makes his whole elaborate plan to bump into Philip, who is now in his 70s, and try to ask him for money.
00:31:48
Speaker
Theodore ref finds Philip and begs him for a handout saying he's been facing hard times and just needs a little bit of help. But Philip is facing his own problems with his wife in the hospital with a broken hip, which is very expensive in America. Yeah.
00:32:03
Speaker
Even back then, assume. Yes, especially back then, I assume. i don't know. During the Great Depression? I think probably. I don't know. Whatever.
00:32:14
Speaker
It's whatever, man. All right. Well, Theodore doesn't take no for an answer and he decides to start stalking Philip. Oh, great. He follows him home, learns his schedule and decides that he's going to wait for the perfect moment to rob Philip's house and run away with any valuables he can find.
00:32:31
Speaker
Man's 70 years old. That's so fucked. Yeah. Yeah. And he's 50. Yeah. Yeah, but that's not, that's not anything. thats No, but you're old enough to know better. You are old enough to know better. You fucking are. And it's so mean to pick on somebody who's 70 years old like that.
00:32:46
Speaker
And whose wife is in the hospital. Ugh, dickwad. After a long wait, Theodore watches Philip leave his house one morning and notices that the back door has been left unlocked.
00:32:57
Speaker
So Theodore decides to just let himself in. He starts rummaging around the house, grabbing all the food, money, and valuables he can find. In searching the house, he happens upon a small cubby hole in the ceiling of a closet.
00:33:10
Speaker
It's a little hole, no bigger than the size of a cigar box lid. He searches deeper into the hole and finds that it leads to a small room in the attic. Room is a generous word in this case.
00:33:21
Speaker
Apparently, Theodore decided the space was just what he needed and he decided to put everything back where he found it and sneak back into the attic space where he falls asleep.
00:33:33
Speaker
I mean, yeah you find yourself a nice dry place to sleep. Mm hmm. Worth more than everything. Exactly. Wow. So over the next month, Theodore stays in the attic room and only comes down when he hears Philip leave.
00:33:48
Speaker
But Theodore slips up one day and comes down while Philip is napping. Thinking Philip had left, Theodore comes downstairs and starts snacking in the kitchen. but Philip wakes up, finds someone in his kitchen, and attacks him with his walking stick.
00:34:03
Speaker
Theodore starts attacking Philip back with an antique gun he found in the house. Oh. He keeps striking Philip with a gun over and over until the gun shatters. Yes. Yeah. yeah When the gun shatters, Theodore grabs a nearby metal poker from the fireplace and starts to hit Philip over the head with it.
00:34:22
Speaker
Philip dies on the bedroom floor from blunt force trauma. Rude. Now, logically, you would think he would run away after he just accidentally killed a man.
00:34:32
Speaker
But instead, Theodore decides to go back into his attic hole.
00:34:38
Speaker
Something that should be noted about Philip is that he was a very social person. He was very friendly with his neighbors, so much so that on the night of his death, October 17th, 1941, he was scheduled to have dinner with his neighbor, Jeannie Ross.
00:34:54
Speaker
He had been regularly having dinner at Jeannie's house while his wife was in the hospital. When he didn't show up for dinner, she grew concerned. Jeannie rang the doorbell and looked through the windows into the dark house.
00:35:06
Speaker
No one came to the door and no one stirred in the house. As she looked through the windows, she noticed Peter's cane and hat were in the hallway. Alarmed, Jeannie rounds up some more neighbors to try and help her get into the house.
00:35:20
Speaker
They check all the doors and windows, but found them all to be locked and the window screens were firmly in place. Remember, this is the nineteen forty s around the time of the Great Depression. There's a small community helping one another, so i get why the police haven't been called yet, right? Yeah.
00:35:36
Speaker
Anyway, so the neighbors decide they're going to pry window open. So one of them does. They pry the window open. They go inside to see if they can find Philip. They find him, but he's deceased on his bedroom floor in a bloody scene, and they decide to call the police.
00:35:52
Speaker
Okay. When the police arrive, they find Philip in the downstairs bedroom. He's covered in blood, half-dressed and barefoot. The struggle seemed to have spanned through multiple rooms.
00:36:02
Speaker
It was clear he had been beaten over the head, possibly long after he died, with over a dozen wounds to his skull. It was a very confusing scene. All of the doors and windows were locked, and the doors were locked with a key and chain from the inside, and it could have only been done from the inside.
00:36:23
Speaker
Just feet from Philip was his wallet, keys, and jewelry. So it didn't seem that robbery was a motive. They easily identified the murder weapon as the shaker. um Sorry.
00:36:34
Speaker
Some things called it a shaker. Other things called it a poker. Okay. I don't know if that was like a nineteen forty s term or what. know. They identified that murder weapon. It sat next to Philip's body with a bloody towel that was used to wipe it down.
00:36:48
Speaker
Philip had attempted to defend himself against his attacker. He had multiple defensive wounds to his arms and even had a fingernail that had been completely ripped off in the struggle. They're stumped as to how this happened and the case starts to grow cold.
00:37:02
Speaker
He lost a fingernail? Okay. Yeah. Like, so he was, he was like fighting back. Yeah. Three months pass and the neighbors report weird are things happening in this empty house.
00:37:14
Speaker
They see the occasional light on even though no one is home. Some of the neighborhood children report seeing a face in the window as they pass, but it quickly disappears. They really believe the murder house is haunted, possibly by Philip.
00:37:29
Speaker
Why else would they think anything Eventually, Miss Peters recovers from her hip injury and moves back into the house. Oh, I forgot about her. I did too. When I wrote this story. Not now.
00:37:41
Speaker
She brings a home nurse with her as she is still very frail. They often hear strange noises in the house or see shadows moving around the house. The nurse reports to have seen a ghostly figure on the back stairs that chattered its teeth at her.
00:37:56
Speaker
She resigned and a neighbor stepped in to care for poor Miss Peters. It was really bad because Miss Peters and those that were caring for her would call the police often to report the noises they were hearing in the house.
00:38:08
Speaker
And the police would write them off as like seeing things or overreacting like to just like the house settling or whatever. Right. Because, you know, her husband didn't die in there under mysterious circumstances.
00:38:21
Speaker
but Like from the inside. right Like what would you do in this situation? Like if that was like your house. Move if I could. But I'm assuming that's not an option since we're a frail old lady and, you know, purchasing a new residence. Yeah, but you don't believe in like hauntings and stuff like that. Oh, no, I personally would have already checked up.
00:38:46
Speaker
There was any indication that there was space up there. Hmm. OK, I don't know. don't know. So this has been her house for 50 years and her husband just died here. So she doesn't want to leave. Yeah.
00:39:02
Speaker
But just a few days in a caring for Miss Peters, the neighbor reports that she heard a mysterious noise in the kitchen. She runs through the dark house, not stopping to turn on any lights. She stops and sees a ghostly figure at the foot of the stairs.
00:39:15
Speaker
She told investigators that, quote, it was a filthy wraith like thing that vanished when I screamed and I don't know where it went. End quote. Everyone had enough of this at this point, and Ms. Peters' family decide that she's going to go live with her adult son for a while.
00:39:30
Speaker
The neighbors and police decide they're going to keep a good watch on the house for a while to see if they can figure out what's going on. So it's now July of 1942. Theodore has been holed up in this house for about 10 months now, and he has yet to be noticed.
00:39:45
Speaker
The Denver, Colorado Police Department are stationed across the street from the house on patrol. As the sun was starting to set and they watched the postman walk by the house, one of them noticed a blur of a face in the window.
00:39:57
Speaker
Alerting their patrol partner, they both noticed the curtains in front of the window sway. They immediately called for backup and quickly knocked down the front door. Inside, they noticed that the furniture was covered and everything seemed to be still, but there was ah strange animal smell in the air.
00:40:15
Speaker
and Yeah, because he hasn't bathed in 10 months. As backup arrived, they headed up the stairs just in time to see the closet door swing shut and hear the click of the lock. They rushed to open the door to see two bare feet kicking their way up through the hole in the ceiling.
00:40:31
Speaker
One of them grabbed onto the tattered pants hanging out of the ceiling, but the fabric rips off in his hands. A patrol officer grabbed onto the foot and pulled hard, ripping the man from the ceiling and pulling him down.
00:40:43
Speaker
Theodore Coney immediately fainted. He's described as filthy, disheveled, starved, and barely alive. The hospital call an ambulance for him and get him to the hospital.
00:40:55
Speaker
While investigating the scene, police attempt to get into the attic but have trouble with the tiny opening in the ceiling. The small room is reported to have been barely larger than a coffin with a small incandescent bulb hanging from wire. Wow.
00:41:08
Speaker
Yeah, so it was like the point of the house. So it was like, and I have pictures of it. So it was like this. And so the length wasn't much bigger than a coffin, even this way. Right. But like he had space like where the ceiling forms a point. Yeah.
00:41:26
Speaker
Yeah. There was an old ironing board that had been turned into a bed with tattered magazines and garbage littered all over it. Theodore was named the Denver Spider-Man as Detective Fred Zarno claimed, quote, a man would have to be a spider to stand it long up here, end quote.
00:41:43
Speaker
Once Theodore wakes up, he tells investigators the following, quote, everything would have been all right and phil peters would have been alive today if he hadn't caught me robbing the icebox it was ham or me i thought he had gone out but he was taken a nap i hit him with the stove shaker when he tried to run for help i don't know if he recognized me it was nearly thirty years since he'd seen me last When it was over, I ran to the attic after I washed and dried the shaker.
00:42:09
Speaker
I was sitting on the trap door when you were pounding on it from below that night that you found him. I was in the neighborhood in September of 1941 and found the house unlocked and no one home. I went in, stole some food.
00:42:21
Speaker
I was in bad shape. My lungs were giving me a lot of trouble and I was at the end of my rope. Fall was coming on and I couldn't face another winter on the road. I had to have a place to stay. i didn't know Miss Peters was in the hospital.
00:42:34
Speaker
i found the hole in the closet, climbed through and slept and slept. Whenever I heard him downstairs, I kept real still. Then I got bolder and used to shadow him from room to room.
00:42:45
Speaker
It was a sort of game. It gave me a thrill. It was the first time in my life I'd ever had anyone at my mercy. But I didn't want to hurt him. It was miserable hot in the summer and my feet froze in the dead of winter in that attic.
00:42:57
Speaker
But it was all part of the price I was willing to pay. i can't tell you why I stuck it out. I guess it was mostly because it was a world of my own. I used to go down and look out the windows and watch the postman come by.
00:43:10
Speaker
Nobody's written to me in 25 years. Whenever I saw people on the street, I hated them. And I would go back to my attic. End quote. It's really sad. Yeah. I mean, he just wasn't, it doesn't make it okay what he did, but he just wasn't prepared for equipped to be alone. Yeah.
00:43:28
Speaker
So something interesting about Theodore is that he was about five foot ten so almost 6 feet tall. And yet he was able to curl up in there because he was so emaciated, weighing only 75 pounds. Wow.
00:43:40
Speaker
yes Theodore Coney was sentenced to life in prison and became a model prisoner. bet. He died in jail at the age of 84. he was in there years and... got food and a warm place to sleep.
00:43:54
Speaker
So all of this should be a reminder. The next time something goes bump in the night, the noise might be coming from closer than you think. Oh, gross. I hate it. So it's really funny because when i when I was writing this, like I was like looking through all of my notes and stuff and like trying to put something together I had come to the end of it and I had just finished writing my stuff and I sat there and i kind of leaned back and it was so quiet in the house because it was like 1030 at night.
00:44:28
Speaker
And all of a sudden, Fern and Dojo lose their minds, scared the ever loving shit out of me.
00:44:40
Speaker
I screamed so hard. you wake up bash no but it was so scary ah so i don't know if I ever told you like this story hit so close to home for me because like again home invasion that's one of my worst fears frogging I never thought about it int until like I started I think there was ah movie that I see you movie and another movie that come out around that time where I was like oh god like someone could just
00:45:13
Speaker
They can do that.
Personal Home Invasion Fears
00:45:14
Speaker
And then so 2020, I moved into a new build and i I moved in and within just a few days, i kept hearing a noise. i remember this.
00:45:30
Speaker
In the attic and around the house. And it was the most confusing thing. And I kept telling Ace, like, there's something up there. And he told me that I was crazy.
00:45:42
Speaker
And then we went back to how I was like, dude, I told you i was haunted. And that's what's happening now because you're not recognizing that this is a real problem.
00:45:52
Speaker
So until I think it was like three o'clock in the morning one day, we heard something from the corner of the room. and it sounded like maybe it was it was really loud. It sounded like Someone was trying to open our fence gate or something, which is right next to our room.
00:46:12
Speaker
And so we both got really scared. And then I eventually pinpointed it and I was like, Ace, it's coming from upstairs. There's something upstairs. And he was like,
00:46:24
Speaker
okay, let me go look. And I was like, no, the fuck you're not. It's three in the morning and there's something, if not someone upstairs and we're not doing that. So yeah I was like, we can call the police and he refused.
00:46:38
Speaker
So I agreed with him that he could go look the next morning. Mm-hmm. And he does. And what do we find?
00:46:49
Speaker
a fucking possum. There's been a possum living in my attic for two weeks after we closed on the house. Two weeks it was living in that attic.
00:47:02
Speaker
Trying to get out. Scratching through the ceiling. And whole time he didn't believe me when I kept telling him. It scared the fuck out of me because I was like, there is something...
00:47:15
Speaker
upstairs And once we realized it was a possum, it wasn't as bad because like obviously it wasn't a human being. Sure. But like the worst part is the only way that it could have gotten up there was when they left the ladder down for the home inspector to come and look at it.
00:47:33
Speaker
Because they left it like that for an entire day and just left the house there. So, but yeah, it was funny because we ended up having to get it out ourselves with some cat food. That you got from me. Yes.
00:47:47
Speaker
Yes. So, yeah, that's my home invasion story, which it was a possum, but it was horrifying. And now that it's a real fear of mine every time I hear the house settle or something. Yes. um my My house is 70 years old, so I definitely understand strange house sounds.
00:48:06
Speaker
I have my hair field. I do too. Tell me yours. that movie that I mentioned, The I See You. I See You. Yes. Mine is I have two kind of to go with American witch folklore and stuff. Okay. We're going to go with Once and Future Witches by Alex Harrow. I'll just let you look at it. It's great.
00:48:30
Speaker
Go read And then Slewfoot by the author Braum. Slewfoot? Yes. S-L-E-W. Weird. It sounds yucky. No, it's great. They're both about witchy situations. Witchy-wations, if you will.
00:48:46
Speaker
Witchy-wations. No, I will not. I refuse, actually. But Slewfoot by Brom. Brom is an artist as well as an author. And if you can find a physical copy of that book, there's amazing art in it as well. I think it's in the digital version as well.
00:49:07
Speaker
The poison is behind you.
00:49:12
Speaker
Jeez. These are very stupid, but I'll go with them.
00:49:17
Speaker
Okay. We good? I guess. We might. We might need another alternative.
Playful "Would You Rather" Game
00:49:24
Speaker
This has been fun for a while. i agree. I might just need ah a different.
00:49:28
Speaker
We'll just start doing a Ouija seance thing every time at the end and to say goodbye to the board. and love it. Would you rather? Would you rather?
00:49:40
Speaker
Embroider hornier than thou on all of your clothes. Oh my God. strip down naked and cover your body with hummus in a public library. That is so weirdly specific.
00:49:57
Speaker
I know like some of these you're like, did you, did this happen to you? Right. Like why the public library? um So I definitely would not strip down naked and cover my body with hummus in a public library because children don't need that in their lives.
00:50:15
Speaker
There is enough evil in this world. And children can't read. So hornier than thou won't hurt them. Exactly. Or hornier than you. Sorry, is what it says. you You added the vow. You wanted to be bouncy.
00:50:26
Speaker
Founcy. Founcy? It's extra fancy. Founcy. I love it. um okay there Okay. Would you rather? Would you rather? Wear nothing but a thong and cross next Thanksgiving.
00:50:38
Speaker
My husband would love that. He's obsessed with cross. i know. And yet we still love him. Sorry, mom. um Or shoot yourself in the kneecap with a nail gun.
00:50:53
Speaker
Well, okay. I get to cheat on this one because Thanksgiving thanksgiving for me is just me and monkey. We don't do anything with family because we did retail for so long that our family just gave up on us for Thanksgiving. Well, just because of the situation, your mom would show up on that day um that you decided to wear Crocs and ah ah thong.
00:51:16
Speaker
I mean, if it as long as it's just my mom. Show up and be like, well, all right. Yeah. I don't think she'd be judgy. She would just be confused and amused.
00:51:27
Speaker
And be like, I will let you know next time before I open this door. And then she'll be like, why didn't we, why didn't you tell me we were wearing our Crocs today? And then, you know, my mom's a great sport. That does sound like right exactly what would happen.
00:51:41
Speaker
And then monkey would die of embarrassment. The end. end. Well, thank you for joining us today. We have made it so easy for you guys to tell us what you think. So please let us know if there's anything that you want us to cover, if there are more topics you would like us to look into, or if there's anything that you want us to change. Just be nice.
00:52:03
Speaker
We cry easy. Yeah. But more importantly than any of that, have a happy Halloween. Happy Halloween! Sweet dreams. If you have topic requests, book or movie recommendations, or just want to say hi, email us at nightmarecottage at gmail dot com or visit our website at nightmarecottage dot com.
00:52:25
Speaker
Sweet dreams! Bye bye!
00:52:42
Speaker
bye by