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Episode 29 - Grave Encounters, The Old Burying Point, Salem, MA and Erin Patterson
22 Plays17 days ago
Nym takes us on another Grave Encounter to the Old Burying Point in Salem, MA. Nylene covers a case with a recent verdict, and fills us in on the mushroom murders in Australia.
Enter the Nightmare for show notes, sources, transcripts, and more!
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Nightmare Cottage' Podcast
00:00:29
Speaker
Welcome to Nim and Nyleen's Nightmare Cottage, where we explore history, mysteries, and other tales of the macabre. I'm Nim. And I'm Nyleen. Let the nightmare begin.
00:00:49
Speaker
How's it going? Man, it's
00:00:55
Speaker
alright actually. Well you're boring. I know, I was like, I I do feel like I always come on here and bitch about something.
00:01:10
Speaker
But I don't really have much to bitch about. Besides that, like, I finished my book and I'm really upset about the way it ended. So I need to, like, keep reading. Yeah, that's story of my life.
00:01:21
Speaker
How about you? What's been going on with you? Well, it's, like, the normal people's spooky season is upon us, which makes me less abnormal than I normally do. The normal people's spooky season? Right, yes, because it's always spooky season.
00:01:33
Speaker
But, like, for everybody else, it's only spooky season, like, September, October, and whatever. you know, we're... or But in reality. You know, whatever. But anyways, it's just fun.
Halloween Traditions and Preparations
00:01:45
Speaker
this is i'm I'm getting closer to the peak of my personal power.
00:01:49
Speaker
but I've got, you know, we actually, when we first started recording these, I remember one of the things I talked about. And I don't know if it's something that made an episode or not. But I was excited because I got the stuff to make my Halloween treat bags. Well, here we are again. I'm excited because I got the stuff to make my Halloween treat bags. Ooh, I'm excited to see what they're like this year.
00:02:05
Speaker
don't remember where I was maybe I was at Walgreens or something like that but they had like a bunch of like I don't know they had a bunch of the little bulk bags of like oh if you want to get like mainly for like teachers and stuff like that or people who are making candy bags but just like the cute little things I know you usually go like more far out but just reminded me of you and I was like oh they're so cute I don't know if I'm gonna buy candy this year Because if candy, I end up eating all. Oh, yeah. Do y'all not get trick-or-treaters over here? I know it's in... It's in pretty new neighborhood. But, like, and everyone here has small kids.
00:02:42
Speaker
So we're all kind of out and, like, not very many. You know what I mean? Like, all out, not very many actually giving out candy. Gotcha. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:53
Speaker
And so I'd feel bad to be like going around the neighborhood asking people for candy and then not having candy for their kids, which it just seems weird. I don't even know why we're doing this at this point, to be honest. I don't understand the trick or treating thing. I told you, I never really went trick or treating. So I don't get it. We've had whole episodes about this.
00:03:10
Speaker
I know.
00:03:12
Speaker
I did like that this one lady gave him a book. It was a Halloween book. It was one of his favorites for a while. Like that was his and a piece of candy, but. He was more excited about that than anything else.
00:03:24
Speaker
That was something that I had read about somewhere called Book or Treat. And I really want to do it one of these days. but I don't get so many trick-or-treaters in our neighborhood that it would you know break me, I guess. But I already spend a good amount of money on each of those treat bags.
00:03:40
Speaker
so I am really surprised that you have not requested a little free library in your front yard. I guess you don't want the children flocking to your yard either. I already Just birds.
00:03:51
Speaker
Yes. And cats. And squirrels. I could do, you give or take with the squirrels. They're fine. They can exist, but either way. But the cats and the crows, they should all just flock to my house.
00:04:04
Speaker
Yeah, it was over at your house the other day. And there was that little cat. It was so cute. And it was just, it wasn't even in the catnip, I don't think. Because I thought the catnip was like further over.
00:04:15
Speaker
There's some in the tower, but there's also some right where she was laying. Oh, okay. There is. Yeah. Mixed in with the echinacea. There's some catnip that has just regrown from being there years ago. And it's part of the mint family. So you can't really kill it.
00:04:28
Speaker
Yeah. So. She was just on her back. Just kind pawing in the air. Yeah. She was definitely high on catnip for sure. Yeah. But yeah, besides that, so awesome sounds like Halloween's right around the corner. Bashy's already picked out his Halloween costume. He's going to be a car, of course, trying to decide if I'm going to switch over to the cars themed car now that I found it after the fact. But we'll see.
00:04:53
Speaker
We'll see. It's like his first Halloween, like where he actually seems to understand what's going on. Like last year, it was adorable to even try to get at him to say trick or treat.
00:05:05
Speaker
Because so he just said happy Halloween to everybody yeah instead. Happy Halloween. Which is adorable. Yeah. Well, you got to bring him by this year. You say that every year.
00:05:16
Speaker
I know. I mean it every year. He always gets so excited when he sees you guys. I expect him to get scared of Monkey because usually Monkey's like... Scary. you Yeah, he looks scary. Not... You know what i mean? Right.
00:05:29
Speaker
He usually has some kind of a sinister mask yeah or something on. Yes. Or think he had zombie makeup on one year. But anyways, yeah, he always like stops, looks, then he gets really excited and runs to you guys.
00:05:40
Speaker
So... It's really cute. Yeah. Well, he's getting, i mean, he's pretty used to the house now, too. So he probably knows from the outside where he's at. Yeah, he does. He knows the way to your house, too. He's welcome anytime.
00:05:52
Speaker
Sorry, I write notes and then I just try to see. Try to remember off of the vague words you've left yourself. Pretty much...
00:06:02
Speaker
Yeah, that's all I have, actually. I'm so sorry. suck to today. I'm just, like, really boring this week, I guess. Hey, no drama is... It's a treat for you. You you get to have... That's true. That's weird.
00:06:18
Speaker
There have been a couple of, like, spooky movies I've really been wanting to see. And we're getting to the right season for it, so... It's always the right season. Yeah. I will not be saying any more movies on here until I watch them, because...
00:06:31
Speaker
I finished two of them that I recommended on here and they were horrible endings and I would take it back if I could. But it's out there now. It's out there now. Yeah.
00:06:42
Speaker
That's horrible. Oh, I think by the time this episode's out, it might be Bashy's birthday. It's right before Bashy's birthday. Yeah. I'm so excited. I got his presents.
00:06:54
Speaker
Presents.
00:06:57
Speaker
Oh my God. What? What? I couldn't pick just one thing. my god. I mean, that's fair enough. I literally pull them out of school for a whole week and just go to town.
00:07:15
Speaker
Well, maybe it's time since we're getting into
Nyleen's Salem Experience
00:07:18
Speaker
spooky seasons. it's Time for our spooky stories. Sure. i brought you another grave encounter. Ooh. Which grave did you encounter?
00:07:27
Speaker
a whole bunch of really old ones. Nice. Now, are these from places you've been? This is a place I have been. Okay. Are you familiar with the old Bering Point Cemetery in Salem, Massachusetts?
00:07:39
Speaker
No. I was fortunate enough to get a chance to go on a bucket list trip to Salem a few years ago with our friend Myra. We actually went in off season, which was amazing. There were a few things that weren't open, but for the most part, it was just better because it wasn't super crazy crowded. We didn't have to wait to do anything. it was late April, so it was cold and cloudy and kind of more that New England vibe anyways. Yeah. Without the fall part. How close is it to the coast? I don't remember.
00:08:04
Speaker
On it. Oh, nice. On it, yeah. And there's a wharf and and stuff. There's a whole bunch of... Part of what we didn't get to see was the maritime stuff. Like, they have pirate museums and other sailing kind of stuff. But that stuff was closed until June and we went in April. So we were just a little shy of it.
00:08:21
Speaker
And where we stayed, it was a really cool old 1700s house that had a view of the Salem Commons. And you could actually see in the distance, you could see the the Salem Witchcraft Museum, which glows red at night. So that was really cool.
00:08:34
Speaker
Nice. And obviously, I have to visit at least one cemetery if I go anywhere. So Salem was very walkable. We actually went by the old Bearing Point several times while we were doing other things before we actually ended up stopping at it.
00:08:45
Speaker
And it's just beautiful. It has this big, beautiful tree that is the subject of one of my favorite pictures from the whole trip. And it has its own story that I'll be telling here shortly. The whole place just feels like history. And it's really just kind of surreal to be there.
Puritan Funeral Customs
00:09:00
Speaker
It really surprises me that a lot of these structures have stood up over so many. I know like there's been like restorations and stuff like that and preservation, but still like the fact that like throughout history,
00:09:11
Speaker
It is because of the very, very serious preservation that they have been doing for hundreds of years already. like there's They started early. like I've got it mentioned later, but it's like in 1711 or something like that is the first mentions of what they needed to do to preserve this particular cemetery in general, ah not even including like the other stuff in Salem that they've preserved really well. And so like what does upkeep, I'm sorry, I know this is completely off topic, but like once it's ah a graveyard is full, like where, who's keeping up with it, right? If they're not making money, I assume they aren't keeping up with it. So the families for a long time.
00:09:49
Speaker
um And then later on the Salem Preservation Society. And then there's a group of people that work specifically on that particular cemetery. And it's, I believe, owned by the the Essex Peabody Museum.
00:10:00
Speaker
Nice. Which is right behind it. So it's a it's, you know, it takes a village. Literally. So in the last Grave Encounter, I was able to pull some colorful characters from the residence and I was able to make it kind of fun.
00:10:13
Speaker
This one didn't really present me with much levity to spread around. So it's going to be a little bit more of a solemn affair. It's one of the oldest colonial cemeteries in the country, established in 1637. The original grave markers were made of wood and have long since deteriorated.
00:10:28
Speaker
yeah So the oldest surviving stone is actually from Doherty Cromwell, who passed 1673. Yeah.
00:10:35
Speaker
There isn't a lot of information specifically about Doherty aside from that she was married to Richard Cromwell, who was the son of Oliver Cromwell, who, if you're not familiar with him, was he was Lord Protector of the Commonwealth of England.
00:10:47
Speaker
was a pretty big deal. was very controversial, influential and not the subject of today's story. I was gonna say Cromwell sounds really familiar for some reason yeah yeah big big to do in the whole history of England and the way they shape their government and there's you know but today is not his story that's like a whole nother thing that is a whole nother thing and and he's not I mean I guess he is kind of a nightmare but whatever Anyway, there isn't documentation to let us know who was buried here first or how the decision was made to make this the place for the dead in Salem.
Salem Witch Trials Recap
00:11:20
Speaker
But in 1637, it was made official with paths cut to make a clear travel point to the cemetery. We've talked about Victorian and ancient Egyptian funeral customs. Let's take a quick look at 17th century colonial funeral customs.
00:11:34
Speaker
Early colonists were Puritans and they wanted to avoid things that were distinctly Catholic. There was no prayer and no words said at the burial. and There may, yeah, it's, it's more ah a, you know, we're, we're not praying about it, but we are contemplating and whatnot. Yeah.
00:11:52
Speaker
ah There may be a gathering at the home beforehand where the body would remain until it was time for burial. Horse drawn hearses were not used yet. So the horse was more of a platform on which to carry the coffin.
00:12:03
Speaker
what do mean? Like they would just put it on the horse? No, they would just carry it from the house to the the the cemetery. with, you know, you're you've got the um the younger family on in the middle that are just carrying the coffin and then the ones that are officially called pallbearers are actually older, like, respected members of the family and they hit the corners and follow the procession out. like, you mean they carry it. I thought you meant, like, they put it on the horse and just, like, that's what was like, like, they're propping it on the horse and I was like, that sounds like it would end badly. That's a whole nightmare in itself. oh my God. Yeah.
00:12:43
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's pretty. Sorry, misunderstood that whole situation. Awful. It's really awful. I can't get over the name Doherty. That sounds. It was probably Dorothy, but the way it was spelled.
00:12:56
Speaker
Oh, it's hard to tell. Yeah. yeah Fair, fair, fair, fair. But Doherty sounds like something that they would have named right someone back then. Right. So I wasn't sure. And there wasn't really a lot for me to go on. So no, that's fair.
00:13:12
Speaker
Whoever knows better can correct me. Nightmare Cottage at gmail.com. In the earliest of these times, there wasn't even an undertaker. So the able-bodied family members and friends had to dig the hole and they refilled it once the body was lowered in.
00:13:27
Speaker
Despite the Spartan era of a colonial funeral, they were also very costly. After the burial, friends and family would gather back at the home of the deceased and have an uncharacteristic celebration with tons of drinking.
00:13:40
Speaker
Tons! So like more traditional. Right, like at Irish Lake. ah Families would be burdened by the alcohol bill for months or even years after the funeral. See, that sucks to be like, yeah I wonder if the the alcohol bill costs more than the funeral itself.
00:13:54
Speaker
In general, yeah, that's that was what they what I read anyways, and indicated and there would also there was also a tradition of giving memorial gloves, scarves and rings to the family of the deceased. And they had like the memento mori, like the the skulls with the wings and things like that on them.
00:14:10
Speaker
But it was like just like jewelry and remembrance. It wasn't like parts of. Right. It wasn't like the hair jewelry. OK, that's why I was like, oh, no, no, that would be too much. Yeah, and but this was eventually curbed by the church in an effort to make the funerals less extravagant because like hundreds of these rings would be commissioned at a time. So consequently, I am 100% in the market for vintage colonial death rings. oh my gosh i'm sure they're crazy expensive nightmare cottage at gmail.com i didn't find anyone i did my initial search i like i like looked at like etsy and ebay and you know i didn't look very hard but the first time i looked is like i wonder and i feel like those could be easily faked but like they're like the the death what are they called death remembrance rings yeah memento mori memento mori rings of
00:14:56
Speaker
So the cemetery is laid out by family rather than in concise rows, which is actually pretty cool to see in person. It feels more like organic. Like people are like setting up their own like little area. They're like, this is like without doing it formally, but. Right. Yeah. Like our family's over here and your family's over by that tree and you know, that kind of thing.
00:15:15
Speaker
And you can just kind of feel the 17th century-ness of it. It's also surrounded by super old trees and two very, very old buildings from the sixteen hundreds ah The Pickman House on the property is now actually the visitor's center for the cemetery. And it was built between sometime between 1665 and 1680. And I've got pictures of that. That'll be in the show notes.
00:15:36
Speaker
And what's really cool is that in the show notes, every single picture that is included for this, I took myself.
00:15:44
Speaker
So the gravestones are just so beautiful and have various Memento Mori designs, including the death's head, which is that skull with the wings, skeletons with sides. And in later years, as the puritanical views kind of shifted a bit, we got angels, but other angelic imagery.
00:15:58
Speaker
The death's head is on so many stones. I don't know that I'd ever really seen that before, quite like I saw it there. Yeah, I mean, it was the start of it. Well, the start of it here in that area. Right.
00:16:09
Speaker
Most of the stones in the pictures I included have several of the Memento Mori on them. Just outside the cemetery gates is the Grimshaw house ah built in 1680. This house was owned by the influential Peabody family.
00:16:21
Speaker
Nathaniel Hawthorne of Scarlet Letter and House of Seven Gables fame met and courted his future wife, Sophia Peabody there. His book, Dr. Grimshaw's secret was based on his time in this house, hence being called the Grimshaw house. Now it's currently a private residence, but it's like,
00:16:37
Speaker
old and it's that that gray building i was showing you in the pictures now let's meet a couple more of the residents of the old burying point there's over 700 gravestones and many more lost to time and there's just a ton of really interesting characters there which i didn't think when i first started doing this research but then i kept uncovering more interesting people but we're just going to cover a couple of them just for the sake of time we're going start with caleb pickman Just before his 22nd birthday, this sea captain who sailed between Salem and Jamaica transporting goods for his merchant family came to visit his mother who lived on Essex Street.
00:17:11
Speaker
As he approached her door, he was struck by lightning and passed away. hush He was buried under the big, beautiful oak tree I mentioned earlier. Legend has that this tree is struck by lightning every 22 years.
00:17:23
Speaker
yeah There is definitely some damage to the tree, but there's no proof of this consistent electrical assault. So this is the one that you took a picture of? It is. Oh, is that what that was? That's like what that was. is Obviously, like that is a very small picture on a phone, so I i couldn't see it.
00:17:37
Speaker
Right. So you can kind of see the gaping hole. Yeah. Oh, wow. But it's still alive. Yeah. I'm surprised that it hasn't lit on fire. It is like it's in like the dead center. And it doesn't it probably does not actually get struck by lightning that often. No, but like usually when trees are struck by lightning, they kind of petrify from the inside. They burn from the inside out, you know, then there's just an outer crest. to The fact that it's still alive is amazing. Yeah, and so I was there and before the leaves started coming back, but you can see pictures of it online just like fully flushed and full of leaves.
00:18:11
Speaker
The words on his grave markers state, Here lies interred the body of Mr. Caleb Pickman, who died June 4th, 1737, being struck with lightning. Aged 22 years.
00:18:23
Speaker
My times are in the hand. I remember my life as wind. Goodness. Next up, before we get into the truly tragic, is Captain Richard Moore. That wasn't tragic. That was 20-year-old that got struck by lightning.
00:18:37
Speaker
Well, I mean, i guess it's about perspective. Oh my We're going to get into the witch trial soon, and that was pretty fucking tragic. Yeah, that was ah a different that was a different layer. Different different level of tragic. Yes.
00:18:49
Speaker
um But next up, we have Captain Richard Moore. Richard Moore is the only passenger from the Mayflower whose gravestone is still intact. oh i was wondering about that if there were any of the original settlers he is the only i mean there are some that have been remade and even his has um words etched on it now that were not on it originally like it says it says mayflower pilgrim on it and they didn't use the word pilgrim yeah so it's like somebody carved it on there right in the right style but still it was added later is it wood or stone
00:19:21
Speaker
Stone. It's slate. Nice. There's a bit of mystery as to why Richard and his three siblings were shipped off without guardians to the new world until a descendant unearthed 17th century documents in his attic in the nineteen fifty s Oh, wow.
00:19:35
Speaker
As it turns out, you think someone would have already done that. You would think. You would think. But, you know, people inherit bullshit from their family. That's true. it's boxes and boxes. Yeah.
00:19:46
Speaker
and But as it turns out, Moore's mother, Catherine, continued her affair with the man she actually loved after her arranged marriage to Samuel Moore. For the sake of the... It was arranged for familial obligation. Yeah. tying families together or whatever. Yeah.
00:20:03
Speaker
As they do. ah He challenged the paternity of his children once he caught wind and ultimately divorced Catherine and sold off his kids as indentured servants because they he didn't believe that they were his. oh my gosh. At this time, it was common to round up orphaned children in the streets of London to send off to help colonizers. What a fucked up time. No doubt. Jeez. Could you imagine?
00:20:26
Speaker
You're just playing outside they're like, here, here, little child, and they just take you off to work. You're like, I just. and Well, Richard Moore was six when he landed Plymouth Rock in 1620. The next year he was helping serve the first Thanksgiving meal to the Wampanoags and the Puritans of the Plymouth colony. Oh, my gosh. Trying to be involved in something like that.
00:20:49
Speaker
In adulthood, he was actually fairly influential to the colonies. The Staple Act of 1663, imposed by England on the colonies, created really convoluted rules for shipping and trade. Not like we're familiar with that right now.
00:21:02
Speaker
We both kind of work in that, huh? Basically, any European goods heading to the colonies had to go through England or Wales first. Richard Moore helped circumvent these dumbass rules by getting creative with his paperwork.
00:21:13
Speaker
He had an impressive sea record, having never lost a ship and never being caught for anything nefarious. Oh, wow. He was like the Escobar firm for fair trade. i mean, that's really funny.
00:21:27
Speaker
Okay, so now real quick, I'm going to give like a real fast and dirty recap of the Salem witch trials. How dirty?
00:21:35
Speaker
Not fun dirty. But i I need to talk touch on that before I touch on the witch trial memorial at the old bearing point. Touch away. So much brightness and levity here.
00:21:47
Speaker
The Salem witch trials were a series of hearings and prosecutions of people accused of witchcraft in colonial Massachusetts, primarily between 1692 and May of 1693. At least you say Massachusetts correctly.
00:21:59
Speaker
How do people say it? I know someone who says Massachusetts. I have heard that too. ah hate it. I yeah hate it so much. not a fan. Yeah, it's pretty rough. No offense. If you say it Massachusetts, offense.
00:22:12
Speaker
All the offense. It is wrong. I will fight you. This took place between, i'm sorry, this took place in Salem Village, which is now Danvers. Sorry, what are we talking about? The Salem Witch Trials were hearings of...
00:22:27
Speaker
but hello Sorry, we went on a tangent and I got lost. Alright, Salem Witch Trials. This took place in Salem Village, which is now Danvers, Salem Town, and nearby communities in Massachusetts Bay Colony in general.
00:22:43
Speaker
Everything kind of kicked off in January of 1692 when two young girls... Betty Paris, age 9, and her cousin Abigail Williams, age 11, began acting out with strange behaviors such as fits, screaming, and contortions.
00:22:57
Speaker
A local doctor couldn't find anything physically wrong, so he blamed witchcraft. Like you do. yeah The girls soon accused several women of bewitching them, including Tituba, an enslaved woman of Caribbean origin,
00:23:09
Speaker
Sarah Good, a homeless beggar, and Sarah Osborne, a woman who rarely attended church. I didn't know Good was a homeless beggar. i know it was like in the movies or shows, whatever, whenever they recreate, she's usually like just some town crazy person. They blame everything on the more you know.
00:23:27
Speaker
As fear spread, more girls began showing similar symptoms and accusations multiplied in an alarming rate. The Puritan belief system, combined with strict social order and recent local hardships, including a smallpox epidemic, attacks from indigenous peoples, and political instability, created a perfect storm for mass hysteria.
00:23:47
Speaker
In March of 1692, local magistrates began conducting examinations. By May, the newly appointed governor, William Phipps, established a special court of Oyer and Terminer, or Tahira and Determine, oh to handle i know to handle the growing number of cases.
00:24:04
Speaker
The court relied heavily on spectral evidence, I say in quotes, or testimony that the spirit or shape of the accused had appeared to the witness in a dream or vision.
00:24:15
Speaker
they were They wanted evidence of that? No, that was evidence. If they said it, it was evidence. That's crazy. Yeah. One of the first major trials was that of Bridget Bishop, who had a reputation for being outspoken and dressing unconventionally.
00:24:30
Speaker
She was found guilty and hanged on June 10th, 1692.
00:24:34
Speaker
Over the next several months, the court convicted and executed 19 people by hanging, 14 women and 5 men. And then one man, Giles Corey, was pressed to death with heavy stones for refusing to enter a plea.
00:24:47
Speaker
Oh, that's so sad. Yeah. That guy was kind of a dick too, but he was, you know. It's a whole thing. I really, if you have if you are not familiar with the ins and outs of the Salem Witch Trials, there is so much rich story there. I recommend looking into it.
00:25:04
Speaker
More than 200 people were accused and dozens were imprisoned, some for months on end in harsh conditions. And some died there, didn't they? Several died in jail awaiting their time in court. By late 1692, people were growing skeptical about the legitimacy of these claims.
00:25:20
Speaker
Prominent figures, including Increase Mather, a respected Puritan minister and father of Cotton Mather, argued that the use of spectral evidence was unreliable. In October, Governor Phipps dissolved the court of Oryor and Terminer and later banned the use of spectral evidence.
00:25:36
Speaker
In May 1693, Phipps pardoned and released the remaining prisoners. Over time, many involved in the trials expressed remorse. One of the judges, Samuel Seawall, publicly apologized in 1697.
00:25:49
Speaker
The colony later compensated the families of the victims and declared the trials a tragedy. Oh, gosh. The Salem witch trials remain one of the most infamous examples of mass hysteria and injustice in American history.
00:26:01
Speaker
They have been studied as a cautionary tale about the dangers of isolationism, religious extremism, scapegoating, and flawed legal processes. The events have inspired countless books, plays, and films, including Arthur Miller's The Crucible, written during the McCarthy era as an allegory for political persecution.
00:26:19
Speaker
Today, Salem, Massachusetts embraces its history with museums and memorials dedicated to the victims of the trials. So there are several prosecutors and accusers from the witch trials interred here at the old burying point that had a hand and to death ah in the death of the victims.
00:26:35
Speaker
But because the accused could not be buried in consecrated lands, they were buried in shallow graves on Gallows Hill until loved ones could relocate them to unmarked graves in other locations. Oh, that's sad. It is so sad.
00:26:47
Speaker
I'm also surprised that that area is considered hollowed ground because that's usually like for... churchyard graveyard right but you said that there wasn't a church nearby right ah maybe not anymore well it wasn't death was not a church affair but i don't know i think maybe at this point i'm not sure you know what i don't know it was just like a you can't sit with us kind of situation exactly yeah you can't die with us so um i'm decompose here
00:27:23
Speaker
I'm not going to actually cover and the dickwads that were the problem part of the trials because fuck those people and they don't deserve any more spotlight. Fair enough. Instead, we're going to talk about the witch trial memorial that was erected at the cemetery at the 300 year anniversary of the trials in 1992. Oh, na Just before the entry gates to the old burying point is a large area dedicated to the victims of the witch trials.
00:27:47
Speaker
um I did not get a wide shot of this, so I don't have a good wide shot, but you can find them online. It's a beautiful but small open courtyard surrounded by a stone wall with stone benches jutting out from around the wall.
00:27:58
Speaker
On each bench is the name, death day, and method of death of one of each of the 20 convicted victims. Aww. As you enter the memorial, the ground is carved with the protests of innocence from the victim, which are symbolically cut off by the wall itself.
00:28:12
Speaker
The final resting place of most of the victims is unknown, so this is a way to honor them in death. Aww.
Preservation Efforts in Salem
00:28:18
Speaker
The old bearing point is so well preserved and provides a wealth of historical context to the lives of early Americans. And this is due largely, as I mentioned, to the preservation efforts that have been made as early as 1711.
00:28:31
Speaker
Calls were made to protect the grounds from the river, which ran directly behind the cemetery at that time. Efforts were made by the landowners to build protective structures for over 100 years. In 1841, they built a large retaining wall, which is still standing. But shortly after the wall was built, they filled in that part of the river.
00:28:48
Speaker
And I didn't realize it happened this long ago, but Salem embraced the witch city title in 1892. Oh, wow. Yeah, I know. When the city's bicentennial stirred up interest in its history.
00:29:00
Speaker
This really set the preservationists into high gear and it's stayed that way ever since. Stones have been repaired and restored. There's even specific clear paths to keep to, which is super important in any burial ground, but especially in ones this old.
00:29:13
Speaker
Some of these graves were in underground tombs, and it's on the coast, which means there's a lot of rain and there's been crazy weather over the centuries. If you step in the wrong place at the wrong time, you could be among those buried at the old burying grounds.
00:29:28
Speaker
If you are in or near Salem, this place is definitely worth a visit. The available hours are generally from dusk till dawn, but realistically it's usually from 12 to 4. And it's free to enter.
00:29:39
Speaker
They have a scavenger hunt you can participate in to spice up your visit, if that's your thing. And you can walk through the Pikmin house as well. And I want to bring up that my main source for this book is called If These Stones Could Speak by Daniel Fury. It's a book.
00:29:52
Speaker
It's in print only, no ebook, no audio book. But it was like it was such a great source of information. it covers dozens of the residents in the cemetery with the stories of their lives. It talks about Salem history and it honors the victims of the witch trials.
00:30:04
Speaker
and portions of the proceeds from every cell of the book goes towards furthering preservation at the old bearing point nice that was that's the grimshaw house and that's the pickman house and uh the way these stones have stood the test i mean i understand they're now being preserved but still like it's crazy yeah some of them are eaten away by lichen yeah just um it's pronounced lichen
00:30:37
Speaker
Today we're going to talk about a crime that took place in Leon Gotha, Victoria, Australia.
The Erin Patterson Case
00:30:42
Speaker
ok Aaron Patterson and Simon Patterson were wed in July of 2007. They had two children together, but they were just one of those couples that was better as friends than in a relationship.
00:30:54
Speaker
After many trial separations, they finally split in 2015. Some sources state they were divorced, others just that they were separated. Aaron and Simon were still very present in each other's lives for the kids. And they were cordial, but like they just weren't in a relationship anymore. Right. Right.
00:31:12
Speaker
They did go on like family holidays and stuff. So, i mean, things couldn't have been too bad. Well, around 2022 been about seven years since they separated or whatever.
00:31:23
Speaker
Simon filed his Australian taxes and listed himself as single. Doing so made Aaron now ineligible for government child support payments. Simon tried fixing it with the Australian government, stating that his accountant had made a mistake and that, you know, they were still together, like, but the damage had already been done.
00:31:43
Speaker
So Simon was no longer legally obligated to continue his payments. So to break it down from my understanding, because i kind of looked into this because I'm like, he you could just pay it anyways. Right.
00:31:54
Speaker
The problem with this is he would be still be paying for everything like to support his kids, but like it would still be taxed at the higher rate. And Aaron wouldn't receive the additional government backed support for, you know, being married and having two kids are now separated. They have two separate incomes and two separate households and all that stuff.
00:32:13
Speaker
All this happens, and suddenly Simon starts experiencing a lot of digestive issues. Digestive issues is putting it really lightly. He was having full-on gastro attacks to the point where he was in the emergency room more than once.
00:32:28
Speaker
One specific incident placed him in a coma and required surgery to remove a section of his bowels. Oh my god. Yeah. So his friend, who was a doctor, gave him the idea to start keeping a food journal to see if maybe they could narrow down what was causing but issues that he was having.
00:32:43
Speaker
When he does this, he starts to notice that he continues to be very ill specifically when he eats food that came from Aaron's house me because they're not living together, but they're still around each other a lot for the kids.
00:32:55
Speaker
Sometimes it was food made by Aaron. Other times she would say his daughter made it for him, like some cookies or something like that. And after realizing this, he decided he just wasn't going to eat food from that house anymore.
00:33:07
Speaker
Yeah. Miraculously, and wasn't having any more problems after this. And he had told his sister about this, too, and she agreed it seemed fishy, but nothing really came of it. Until.
00:33:19
Speaker
dun, dun. The afternoon of July 29th, 2023. So Aaron had sent invites to Simon and his family to come over to their house, to her house for lunch.
00:33:32
Speaker
throughout And this is lunch. They say lunch, but I don't know if this is like...
00:33:39
Speaker
I don't know if it's actually dinner over there. i don't, you know what I mean? Gotcha. Like it was kind of. Like in the South we have dinner and supper. Exactly. Instead lunch and Exactly. it was kind of, because some of the articles were like BBC, so they were like European articles and then other ones were Australian articles. And so the dialects were very different. But he went there for a meal.
00:33:59
Speaker
Yeah, sorry. So Erin sent invites to Simon and his family to come over ah to her house for lunch. Throughout their relationship, Aaron's relationship with her in-laws, it wasn't perfect, but they were kind of close. But with divorce, as sometimes happens, relationships get strained.
00:34:17
Speaker
Aaron had invited Simon, Simon's parents, Dawn and Gail Patterson, and Gail's sister, Heather, and her husband, Ian, over for a homemade meal at her house in Leongatha.
00:34:28
Speaker
So basically his parents and his and uncle. Aaron had sent the children off to the movies during lunch so the adults could have some privacy. She said there was something important she wanted to talk to them about.
00:34:39
Speaker
She had been hinting for a while and messages to the family that she was experiencing some type of worsening medical issue.
00:34:48
Speaker
Simon politely declines to come to lunch, stating he just doesn't feel comfortable joining as they just had gotten back to a decent place since all the legal disputes. But, you know, actually he's convinced that she's trying to poison him So, but like he can't say that.
00:35:01
Speaker
Right. um But his doctors had confirmed his prior gastrointestinal issues greatly favored him having ingested some kind of poison like rat poison or something like that. Something that you wouldn't normally – Subtle.
00:35:12
Speaker
Yeah. So the conversation between Simon and Aaron on the evening before the lunch is as follows. Simon, sorry, i feel too uncomfortable about coming to lunch with you, mom, dad, Heather and Ian tomorrow.
00:35:25
Speaker
But I'm happy to talk about your health and implications of that another time. If you'd like to discuss on the phone, just let me know. Aaron's response to that, that's really disappointing. I spent in many hours this week preparing lunch for tomorrow, which has been exhausting in light of the issues I'm facing, and spent a small fortune on beef eye filet to make beef wellingtons because I wanted it to be a special meal, as I may not be able to host a lunch like this again for some time.
00:35:50
Speaker
It's important to me that you're all there tomorrow and that I can have the conversations i need to have. I hope that you'll change your mind. Your parents and Heather and Ian are coming at 1230. I hope to see you there.
00:36:03
Speaker
Wow. I know. i was like. Manipulative? Yes. Very manipulative. So Simon, you know, gets this message. He kind of just blows her off. But he does try to convince his parents not to go.
00:36:16
Speaker
and They aren't hearing it. And they tell him, you know, to do what he wants, but they're going. They're there to support her. Which, fair enough. He also so Simon tells his sister about the dinner and like he's like I've been trying to get mom and not to go They're not listening. She also tries to convince the parents not to go.
00:36:33
Speaker
But they just respond that like you guys are overreacting. Chill. Like we're going right. So she makes and serves her guests an individual portion each of Beef Wellington.
00:36:46
Speaker
And everyone at the dinner said it was fantastic, delicious. It was it was amazing, right? Have ever had Beef Wellington? I have not. I know what it is. Okay, yeah. Because it's it's like usually like a beef...
00:36:58
Speaker
in ah In a pastry. In a pastry, yes. With other things depending on the region, right? Sure. So they have a great meal. There did end up being a bit left over that Erin had put to the side just in case Simon decided to show up, she said.
00:37:11
Speaker
um Something that was noted by the guests was that Erin served herself on different plates than everyone else did. Come on. So she had an orange plate and everyone else had these like light stone gray plates.
00:37:27
Speaker
That's a little on the nose. Look, honestly, to me, i was like, it's not a big deal. Like my dad complains about this all the time, because like, he comes over. and it's like, I only have enough plates for like four people of one style. Like I have lots of plates, but they're all different styles.
00:37:45
Speaker
And so he always complains that I need to get more plates of the same style so that everyone has the same color plates. It doesn't fucking matter. Listen, this a sore spot for me. So when I saw this, I was kind of triggered, even though I'm like, you're poisoning people. But sure.
00:37:58
Speaker
Anyways. But it's different, though. Everybody had the same plate except for her. Yeah. If it were me. I don't know I would take the shitty plate, though. I would take the plate that was different. I would take the one that was different, too. But what I would be more likely to do is mix and match. And every like they'd be an equal number of each one.
00:38:16
Speaker
So that way it looked like it was on purpose. Yeah. Tips here from ah Nim. Housekeeping tips from Nim. They're my cozy cottage hosting skills. Oh, God. Do we have a new page? Cozy Cottage Hosting Skills? Oh, God.
00:38:29
Speaker
Today, you're going to be and making cakes and stuff like that. It's the cozy side of the cottage. Anyways. After dinner, Erin explains why she has gathered everyone here.
00:38:41
Speaker
She states that she had received a cancer diagnosis and wanted advice on the best way to break the news to the kids and how to support them best while she gets treatment. As soon as Erin's kids return from the movies, the conversation regarding the diagnosis immediately stops for obvious reasons.
00:38:56
Speaker
And they say a prayer and they part ways. Warning, if you are eating or you're squeamish, I'm about to talk about some bodily functions. Depending on how sensitive you are, you might not like this. So maybe just don't have food in your mouth.
00:39:10
Speaker
Around midnight, all of the dinner guests were experiencing severe repeated vomiting and diarrhea. Oh my god. Yes. She poisoned everybody. Everybody. The next morning, Simon's parents called to let him know that they were very unwell, and he ended up calling them an ambulance to take them to nearby Karumbura Hospital.
00:39:29
Speaker
Simon decides to stop by the house of his aunt and uncle to see how they're doing because they were also at the dinner. Seeing they were also in really bad condition, he packed them into his car and headed for the same hospital as his parents.
00:39:41
Speaker
Except Karum Nura Hospital redirected him to Leon Gatha Hospital due to other smaller hospitals having limited resources to treat them. Why are Australian names of hospitals so hard, guys?
00:39:55
Speaker
It shouldn't be this hard. I really wish I had a clever answer.
00:40:02
Speaker
So Gail and Don report that they have had nonstop his and uncle. They've had nonstop diarrhea. And one of them reports to have thrown up over 30 times already. It's figured it's possibly a stomach bug, but they seem to be in pretty severe condition.
00:40:16
Speaker
So the doctor decides to you know, get them IV, get them some fluids in them um and start doing some blood work to see what's going on. After hearing from Simon that his aunt and uncle are also experiencing similar issues and knowing they all had lunch together, the thought is maybe like the meat was off or or something like that, right? Like it's, they don't jump to poisoning, right? Immediately. He doesn't though? He does, but he has no proof that that's the case, right?
00:40:41
Speaker
guess. So at some point in all of this hoopla, Simon informs Aaron that everyone who was at the dinner is experiencing severe stomach issues.
00:40:53
Speaker
Upon hearing this information, Erin, who has spent the day carpooling her son four hours round trip for flying lessons, suddenly realizes that she isn't feeling well now and she needs to join everyone at the hospital to get some medical attention.
00:41:07
Speaker
So she was fine. She was in the car for like a total of four hours back and forth and she's fine. Everyone else is in hospital. But no, I'm sorry. Just kidding. I'm sorry. My tummy is a little upset.
00:41:18
Speaker
I will also go to the hospital. So Erin shows up at Leone Getha Hospital saying that she has diarrhea. The doctor tells her that the other people from her party are here.
00:41:30
Speaker
And the doctor starts questioning her about what was in the food, where she got it, how she made it, just all the questions, like trying to figure out what happened. Erin starts to get a little nervous at this point. And she admits there were some mushrooms in the beef wellington. When asked what kind of mushrooms they are, she responds with Woolworths.
00:41:50
Speaker
This is a grocery store yeah in Australia or maybe other places too, but in Australia. She's asked by the doctor if she foraged any of the mushrooms in the and the food that she put in the food.
00:42:01
Speaker
And Erin repeatedly denies doing so. The doctor decides to test her patients for mushroom poisoning just to see, you know, maybe that's what it is. See, I think if it were me, I would say I did in fact forage.
00:42:12
Speaker
Forage because it wasn't intentional. That would be smart. Yeah. Meanwhile, Erin is told that she urgently needs to check herself in if she has ingested any of this dinner because it seems that there was something very toxic in it.
00:42:26
Speaker
To this, Erin responds that her daughter ate some of the mushrooms, too, which alarms them even more. Against the advice of medical personnel, Erin slips out of the hospital, signing paperwork and stating that she's declining medical attention and she heads home.
00:42:40
Speaker
Uh-huh. Well, the blood work comes back and they find that they are coming up positive for a toxin found in a very poisonous mushroom called a death cat mushroom. Yes. I'll remind you that this is Australia and the people in this area, i don't know if it's all over the state, but in this area at least say it's not uncommon for people to forage for mushrooms.
00:43:01
Speaker
But this type of poisoning will result in death if not treated quickly. It's not if it's it's it's. Oh, no. His parents are at the other hospital. Oh, no. The couples that came into the yeah ER and have ingested the deadly mushrooms are now being shipped off to the larger hospital. So they're all going to be at the same big hospital now because the the hospital they're at is just a small hospital. They can't handle the treatment they need.
00:43:24
Speaker
While everyone else is in the hospital slowly dying, the ER doctor is calling Erin trying to get her to come back because they're now realizing this is poisonous mushrooms, right? They aren't able to get a hold of her, so they call the emergency police line and request they do a wellness check on her and see if they can get her to come in for treatment.
00:43:41
Speaker
Also to check in on this child that apparently ate the poisoned food too. And in calling the police, they also explain the situation, which now the police are like, hmm, need to collect evidence, right? Right.
00:43:52
Speaker
So the police get to Erin's house for a wellness check and she seems fine. She says she did have an upset stomach and was going to take her and her kids to the hospital later. She had come home to feed the animals and decided to take a nap before heading to the hospital.
00:44:08
Speaker
While at her house, the police fished the leftover Wellington pastry and mushrooms out of the trash and bagged it for evidence and test it. She didn't return to the hospital until over an hour and a half later and still had no child with her.
00:44:22
Speaker
While at the hospital, Erin didn't seem very worried and was reluctant to get treatment. They were pushing her to go get her children out of school since she stated that now both of them had eaten some of the leftovers.
00:44:34
Speaker
ah story evolves. She insisted the mushrooms were scraped off, so they should be fine. They just ate the meat. She said she didn't want to scare them and and would bring them in after school against the wishes of the doctors.
00:44:46
Speaker
Finally, Simon goes and gets the kids from school and he brings them in for testing. Aaron and the kids stay at the hospital overnight for observation. There was not any of the toxin found in their system, and they did not seem to experience any digestive issues at all, which, I mean, good for the kids.
00:45:02
Speaker
But while at the hospital, Aaron was questioned by doctors, the health department, and Child Protective Services about the mushrooms in the meal multiple times. Aaron would only state that she had purchased some fresh mushrooms from Woolworths and that she had purchased some dried mushrooms from an Asian grocery store as well.
00:45:20
Speaker
Yes, now this is coming. ah She would not give specifics about the location of this Asian grocery store or name, stating she couldn't remember because it was months ago and not somewhere she visits regularly.
00:45:32
Speaker
When Erin was asked by investigators if she had maybe forged for the mushrooms herself, she repeatedly denied having done so. Because obviously, if you're selling this in a store, this is going to be a bigger problem. So we need to know, right?
00:45:44
Speaker
Yeah. But again, she's asked by investigators. They're like, no, um i I didn't forage for them. Erin and her children were released from the hospital on August 1st, 2023. This was three days after the lunch took place.
00:45:58
Speaker
The next morning, the first thing she did was dispose of her dehydrator at the local recycling center. yeah She's not doing anything suspicious at all. Luckily for investigators, they were able to recover the dehydrator just a few days later.
00:46:12
Speaker
It was confirmed to have traces of Death Cat mushrooms inside as well as her fingerprints all over it. On August 4th, Heather and Gail, the two sisters, Simon's mother and aunt, died from Death Cat mushroom poisoning.
00:46:25
Speaker
um Simon's father, Don, was still fighting for his life and received a liver transplant. Ian, Simon's uncle, was still in critical condition as well. Ian and Heather's son, David, stated that before his mother's death, she would cry out that her insides were burning and begged for water that she was not able to drink because of her diagnosis.
00:46:46
Speaker
David also mentioned his father's appearance as gaunt with black lips and pained with a serious expression.
00:46:54
Speaker
On August 5th, the police searched Erin's home and confiscated her phone. It turned out to be a dummy one, different from the one she had before the deaths of her in-laws. At this time, Erin was still denying having foraged for any of the death cat mushrooms or having even owned a dehydrator to powder them.
00:47:12
Speaker
But remember, the police had already found the dehydrator. She didn't know that. Right. um They also found a manual in her kitchen for the dehydrator, like in it's one of her drawers. She just like left it. yeah Like you do. That's where you put manuals for things. In a drawer. In the junk drawer. Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:28
Speaker
Unfortunately, Simon's father passed away on August 5th and only Ian, Simon's uncle by marriage, survived the poisoning. His mother, father and aunt all perished from organ failure from these poison mushrooms. That's so fucking tragic. Yep.
00:47:42
Speaker
Ian only survived after being in a coma and has reduced kidney function, ongoing respiratory issues and reduced energy. Yeah. Erin Patterson was finally arrested on November 3rd of 2023 and sentencing commenced on September 8th of 2025.
00:47:58
Speaker
Oh. Yes. So just a few days The other day. Yes. I've always found it to be really crazy how long these trials take, though. Like, that's insane to wait two years for a sentence. During her trial, the following information came to light.
00:48:12
Speaker
Starting in May 2022, Erin started regularly accessing the iNaturalist website to search for sightings of death cat mushrooms in her area. A year later, in April of 2023, someone had posted on the iNaturalist website that there were death cat mushrooms sighted in Locke Reserve.
00:48:30
Speaker
This was to warn locals to avoid the area that were foraging, right? Don't eat them. Right. Ten days after the post, Erin's phone, which was never recovered, ping cell phone towers in the Locke Reserve area where the death cat mushrooms were reported to have been found.
00:48:45
Speaker
This is about 30 minutes away from where she lives, so it's not like she would have just been in that area. Right. Right. As a reminder, these towers do just triangulate an area, though. They can't pin an exact point.
00:48:55
Speaker
Right. The same afternoon that she is believed to have been in the lock area, Erin purchased a food dehydrator Leon Gatha. Imagine that. Hmm. I wonder what she needed that for.
00:49:07
Speaker
Over the following week, Erin had taken photos of her foraged mushrooms sitting on trays in her dehydrator, as well as more mushrooms on a scale being weighed out, assuming it was probably like to so make sure she had the right portion. like soage yeah yeah She even posted on her social media that she had been dehydrating mushrooms and sprinkling them in her children's food.
00:49:31
Speaker
Experts during the trial agreed that the fungi in the images were consistent with death cat mushrooms. She wasn't poisoning her kids. Right. But that's just wild. I know. And then she's like, um I don't have a dehydrator.
00:49:43
Speaker
I've never had one after you posted it on social media. Yeah. Also, I'm sorry. I'm not i like I know a decent amount about nutrition, but what would dehydrating mushrooms and sprinkling them in your kids food do? Just more vitamin D, I guess.
00:49:56
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it's just more vitamins and. A way to get them to eat vegetables without eating vegetables. Yes. Okay. Anyways, continue. Sorry. Oh, yeah. I put all kinds. Just grind that up. Just shove it in there. So later that month on May 21st, 2023, more sightings of the deadly mushrooms were reported in a different area about 30 minutes from where Erin lived.
00:50:15
Speaker
She was again found to have her cell phone pinging towers in the area of the lock, that same area she was before, and also of the newly reported spot. This was all done on the same day that post came through on the iNaturalist website. So they're like, hey, there's some mushrooms over here too. And so she like went to both places to get more. Right.
00:50:34
Speaker
Simon was the main target in all of this, but she was generally disgruntled with all of them because they sided with him after the case, like, after the child support case. Yeah, but, and she was sending a lot of, I didn't put this, but she was sending a lot of, like, really messed up messages to all of them, like, in the family chat. Why would they have gone to visit with her then? And why wouldn't they have heeded the warnings? and Because...
00:51:00
Speaker
Because of the kids, guess. Because of the kids, because it was a really ugly situation. it was a situation that got ugly on accident, but it did get really ugly. And she was upset that, in her words, his family would support him and be on his side, even though he was acting like a deadbeat dad, is the way that she put it.
00:51:20
Speaker
So murder the whole family? Exactly. And they had like, her family is gone. Like she has no other family. And so they had basically, you know, taken that spot and they were really close, especially So her children have no family. Yes.
00:51:33
Speaker
Wow. What a bitch. Yeah. So, again, Simon was the main target in all of this, but she was generally disgruntled with all of them. It was found that she likely served them on different plates than her to ensure she didn't poison herself.
00:51:48
Speaker
It was also suggested that she knew what she was doing. not It wasn't an accident like she keeps claiming to this day because she later disposed of the plates that she served the tainted beef wellington on. Of course.
00:52:00
Speaker
Yeah. When asked by investigators why she didn't get ill like everyone else if the poisoning was not intentional, she stated that after everyone had left and she was cleaning up, she started eating some of the cake from lunch as a little treat.
00:52:14
Speaker
This led to her full-on binge eating the entire cake and then vomiting it back up again as she had a tendency to do. She admitted that she had been struggling with bulimia since she was a teen, so it was likely that the poison had not had the chance to set in before she threw it all up.
00:52:30
Speaker
I mean, as far as excuses are concerned, I suppose it's not the Yeah, the excuse makes sense, but again, there's no records of this, I'll just... Oh, she's got no history of eating disorder. Not like on record. Maybe she does have one. I don't know. Yeah.
00:52:44
Speaker
So because Erin had refused to admit that she had forged for mushrooms and that and she kept saying the mushroom she used had been purchased, the victims were not treated with psilabinin, the antidote for death cat mushrooms, in time to save their lives.
00:52:58
Speaker
So if she would have just admitted to it, they could have given... She would be put away for assault or like attempted murder instead of murder. Yeah. Or it could have been even seen as an accident and gotten a charge like that. Right. Yeah. But she didn't say anything. And so even after Don, I believe it was his dad, Simon's dad received a liver transplant. It failed because there was still too much of the toxin in his body.
00:53:22
Speaker
Like Ian survived because they found in time to give him the dose of what he needed. So the court found that maybe if she had fessed up having forage for the mushrooms, they would have focused on testing for the specific poison earlier and could have possibly saved their lives.
00:53:38
Speaker
So that was taken into account when they were sentencing her.
Erin Patterson's Conviction
00:53:42
Speaker
On July 7th, 2025, Erin Patterson was found guilty of three charges of murder and one charge of attempted murder.
00:53:49
Speaker
What was dropped was the attempted poisoning and murder of her husband because they couldn't prove it with how long ago it was and he never had any like, you know, real ties to it. She was sentenced on September 8th, 2025 to three life sentences plus 25 years imprisonment to be served concurrently. This is the mushroom murders thing that has been popping up on news feed. I'm just now. so ah Sorry. No, it's okay. i didn't want to start it with that, but yes, it is.
00:54:19
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. go No, that's great. because I was going to look into it. i never did. So I'm very excited that you're doing this now that you're almost done. Well, now I'm excited now that it's over. Um, Yeah, sorry. On September 8th, 2025, she was sentenced to three life sentences plus 25 years imprisonment to be served concurrently.
00:54:37
Speaker
There's a reason they did it concurrently, which I'll get to. She will be 82 when she is eligible for parole. The worst part of her prison sentence is that because of her notoriety, And what she did and how much she's been in the media. She has to be kept segregated from other inmates.
00:54:52
Speaker
So she's basically stuck in her normal jail quarters, but confined to be alone for most, if not all of her sentence. Wow. Yeah. So that's kind of why they did it concurrently. And also they had originally set her parole to be a lot lot further out.
00:55:07
Speaker
Mm hmm. Like she would probably never be able to, but they adjusted it to be a little bit shorter because they were like, she's it basically in solitary confinement. But she also wasn't remorseful and kept saying that it was like that she like refused to admit anything to do with the death cat mushrooms at any point in time. Like even after they're like, bro, there's all this evidence, still nothing. So they were like, okay, but you still have to stay in for long because you you don't care.
00:55:34
Speaker
But yeah, that is the mushroom murders that the sentencing just finally went through the other day. That's nuts. No mushrooms. Do we know? i mean, I guess it's all still really recent, but dad has the kids and stuff.
00:55:50
Speaker
And I guess that's all they each have because the rest of the family is fucking gone. Yeah, yeah, the rest of the family is gone. And it's really crazy because I think money had a lot to do with it.
00:56:00
Speaker
Like you said, it is still relatively new. So the sources varied from like, having no motive to like, this is suggested as the motive. This is actually in the court documents where I talked about the child custody case, that part, not custody, but child support case that was actually mentioned in the court records as to like her motives why.
00:56:23
Speaker
But again, she still hasn't admitted that she's ever done it. Another thing, though, is she was actually um left over a million, somewhere around, i think it was like two million or something like that, when her mother had passed away, her grandmother passed away.
00:56:38
Speaker
So she had a lot of money. And then she had gotten married to Simon. And she had been loaning money to Simon's family members to buy houses and to do things. Whether or not things were paid back or things were seen as a loan, that also was kind of questioned at some point, but there's no like certain motive because she would not admit to what she did.
00:57:02
Speaker
Right. Wow. Yeah. Like that's, if that is the case and that those things happen, that is really screwed up. and Yeah. Murder. Yeah. Murder is a little far over money. Little, little, little, little far. Just a little bit.
00:57:14
Speaker
Just a tiny bit. Hmm.
00:57:18
Speaker
Did you have any nightmare feel? I'll ask you this time. Actually, yes. It doesn't have anything to do with anything we've been talking about, but it has nothing to do with nightmares. It's actually not even scary. Well, no, it is. it's ah There is an author named Rachel Harrison who does a lot of horror that's female protagonists, but not like Final Girl. like it's ah She just came out with one this week.
00:57:40
Speaker
I found it the day that it released like while I was looking for a book. i was like, oh, a new Rachel Harrison. I didn't know what it was about. or anything like that i just bought it because i just buy her books and it was called play nice it's about a haunted house and but it really kind of has themes of how women are vilified and like people just assume that they're crazy when something's going on and they don't believe anything yeah it's it's ah it's around themes like that so play nice by rachel harrison it's good stuff nice i have no nightmare feel just my existence
00:58:16
Speaker
Now we're ready for our non-palate cleanser of ah Would You Rather from Pick Your Poison. That's a lot. That was a mouthful. Oh, Pick Your Poison, Would You Rather. i do not think you want to do that.
00:58:29
Speaker
Or this one. Either. Okay. All right. So I have four here. Okay. So we will start with one. Would You Rather...
00:58:42
Speaker
Have your whole family convert to Scientology. Or forget every happy memory you've ever had. oh Well, I feel like if they convert to Scientology, all my happy memories are gone anyways.
00:58:53
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, have a little bit of a different, though. I mean, if we're talking about family, family, my mom's only family I've got. and So you're like, so fuck it.
00:59:05
Speaker
Sorry, mom and them. No, well, not her. She'll be fine because she's too smart for that. But she converted. you saying she was forced into conversion? I just can't buy it.
00:59:16
Speaker
and just don't buy it. What about you? You'll lose your happy memories? I can't. i I mean, they can convert to Scientology. It's fine. I mean, they have weirder theories all the time that they are.
00:59:33
Speaker
i mean, i I mean, I'm the same here. I wouldn't want to lose my happy memory. I agree. I need my happy memories. ah They keep me afloat. Yeah. Right.
00:59:44
Speaker
What other fresh nightmare do we have? Would you rather? oh gross. Gain a pound every time you say a curse word. Now that would not work for me. Yeah. Or fight to the death against an eight foot anaconda.
00:59:59
Speaker
I would learn not to curse very quickly. Because I would not win against an eight foot anaconda.
01:00:12
Speaker
ah Are you about to fight an anaconda? I might be about to fight a fucking anaconda because I can't watch my fucking mouth.
01:00:22
Speaker
ah All right. Well, join us next week for our fresh nightmare. Yes. All the nightmares. Let us know as usual if there are any um suggestions for um anything you want us to cover or something that you found interesting or, you know, local legends that we may not know about.
01:00:43
Speaker
um Also keep those addresses coming and I'll keep sending out those ah stickers as as we get them. Yeah. All right. Sweet dreams. Night-night. If you have topic requests, book or movie recommendations, or just want to say hi, email us at nightmarecottage at gmail.com or visit our website at nightmarecottage.com. Sweet dreams.
01:01:21
Speaker
Bye bye!